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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => General Game Discussion => Topic started by: Sius on March 31, 2010, 10:30:03 pm
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When I decided to return back to FOnline I was exited with all that new 3D stuff and new features coming after wipe. But when I actually started to play again I was disappointed how much this game changed during last season when I was gone. And what changed significantly? Game did not became harder. It became boring. When I compare seasons I played then I must say, that season 1 alias first weeks of OBT3 were the most entertaining days I spend playing FOnline. Everything was new and shiny, we started to form first signs of friendship with fellow czech and slovak players. With almost zero ingame content everyone was just camping NCR encounter "Rangers vs Marauders" and after some 10-15 min you could walk away with 2+ combat shotguns and P90. Few moments spend within tent or base and you were combat ready. Also we could fight in other faction bases and everything was fast and furious. Back then I enjoyed most of the time I spent ingame.
But today? I'm not overreaching when I say that 90% or even more of the time I'm playing this game I have to do what I don't want to do and I'm forced to wait a lot. I'm not whining about this I just state that game has turned imho too many bad turns and its morphing into something what even can't be measured at same scale of entertainment as the first two Fallouts. Yes the game is played more than ever as server status indicates but it does not mean it entertain qualities has grown too. I don't know what devs are working on and how they develop this game but what I've seen so far feels like they have no real goal in their minds. No "ideal" FOnline or "version 1.0", they they just seem to work on stuff they think that could fit in the game and when they are done they move on to another one. So they take small pieces and put them together but in bigger picture it just won't work. I hate that I'm playing the game that could turn out to be absolutely not my blood type but I still hope that next patch will bring some better news and game will start to shape into something more Fallouty. And its only my expectations that keeps me interested in this game. If there is something like ideal FOnline from developers point of view then why don't you share with us? Have you devs ever considered radical changes to the game mechanics like not loosing your stuff with respawn? Can we expect that cooldowns will be gone some day? How do you want to implement PvE and what about organized PvP? These are just few questions I would love to know the answer to. They could help me to form an image about future FOnline.
Anyway I've started this topic because I'm curious about other players. How do you enjoy playing FOnline? What are you doing ingame? Are you rather PvP or PvE person? Would you like FOnline to change or are you satisfied with current way of development? And the most important how would FOnline look like if you were the boos?
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Gonna give a shorty here: i enjoy the game really much. Some changes sometimes are ridiculous, but yeah, i still enjoy it. Im both, PVE, PVP (altough done none after wipe and pre wipe was sucky). Always like to see new features.
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With almost zero ingame content everyone was just camping NCR encounter "Rangers vs Marauders" and after some 10-15 min you could walk away with 2+ combat shotguns and P90. Few moments spend within tent or base and you were combat ready.
Haha, I PMed Lexx about other thing I discovered today, that was changed after wipe... I hope he will fix it, because you don't need even to fight to get almost any item you need. And it's only one of ways, I don't know about other ways, but I think it exists. Anyway, after wipe, yes, the game became VERY easy. Now you can get any gear you want in any time you want. I still can't understand that idiots who crying "Ahhhh! We craft 1 rocket per "Fix" button clicked! It requires alot resources!!!11 Ahhh, now I'll play for SG!"... Omg, I can right now get some rocketlaunchers and almost infinite rockets, but... I'm SGer... ;p
IMHO this game is VERY easy. V.E.R.Y. VERY-VERY-VERY. It must be much harder.
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I can't fix it. But I gave it to the correct department, that will look into it and do something about it. I personally will not do anything for at least one week and a bit more, as I've worked nearly all the time since 3 months.
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I can't fix it. But I gave it to the correct department, that will look into it and do something about it. I personally will not do anything for at least one week and a bit more, as I've worked nearly all the time since 3 months.
Woohoo! Don't worry I won't use it in bad aim. May be I'll buy all brahmin hides and then start give x10 to every bluesuiter with <30 HP on my sight. Or something... or drop alot weapons in NCR... or just hold all caps in my bank.
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+1
Sius, I've got exactly same feelings about this game right now
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With almost zero ingame content everyone was just camping NCR encounter "Rangers vs Marauders" and after some 10-15 min you could walk away with 2+ combat shotguns and P90. Few moments spend within tent or base and you were combat ready. Also we could fight in other faction bases and everything was fast and furious. Back then I enjoyed most of the time I spent ingame.
But today? I'm not overreaching when I say that 90% or even more of the time I'm playing this game I have to do what I don't want to do and I'm forced to wait a lot. I'm not whining about this I just state that game has turned imho too many bad turns and its morphing into something what even can't be measured at same scale of entertainment as the first two Fallouts.
First two Fallouts weren't about crumbling all moving targets around with minigun, AFAIR. You could avoid some fights with speech skill, if you wanted to. Try to avoid fight in FOnline with chit-chatting ;-)
Anyway I think that it's matter of expectations and "own" vision of this game. Some people want to have unlimited fun with rockets, other want to kill and loot some monsters, raiders or other scum, yet another perverts like to drink e-beer in Hub.
Anyway I've started this topic because I'm curious about other players. How do you enjoy playing FOnline? What are you doing ingame? Are you rather PvP or PvE person? Would you like FOnline to change or are you satisfied with current way of development? And the most important how would FOnline look like if you were the boos?
Two years ago I would laugh at your face if you would tell me, that there will be MMO game based on Fallout Universe, and it won't be 3D quake-like shooter. So a fact that this game exists is near a miracle. There was a mod for F2 some time ago, called Wastelandmerc. I liked to play it, but something was missing - I was there alone.
But about enjoying FOnline - there is nothing more enjoyable for an oldschool dude like me than running around in this world with couple friends for hunting, scavenging, discovering new things, running away sometimes, healing each other or just taking care of our asses not being shot while mining at unguarded mines.
I really like new mining and scavenging system, I can almost see how my char smiles while entering mining camp or finding some piles of junk. Gaining XP for crafting was a bit reduced, yes, but I can have a little bit of satisfaction from crafting new shiny gun or bullets from a shapeless rocks I digged myself.
About PvP - it was never "my" vision of Fallout-like games to shoot at people for fun, loot, lulz or whatever. Every pixel-man with some name above head shot down means, that someone's fun have been spoiled. Also I'm simply too slow to click fast enough to be at least mediocre in PvP in RT mode, so I will be useless for a mates from PvP faction. And I don't like to be useless.
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Server lagging like shit so I will post something. ;p
Beginning of OBT3 was very boring for me because death didn't mean anything; literally got bored of the game in two days. Over many updates etc. the game became interesting because now losing your items meant a loss of time, which gave me motivation to PvP/PK people. With the recent changes gathering became engaging for PvP and much easier in general. So, in essence, I enjoy playing FOnline and it came a long way to where it started thanks to the Devs. Things I wasn't able to try was TC and so called mass PvP, but then again I enjoy playing either in a small group or as solo player, so it didn't affect my experience of the game that much.
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It doesn't feel like Fallout, and it doesn't feel like a competent MMO. It has its moments, but I play it for the potential. And the fact it's English.
MMOs have a strong sense of sequence. So did the Fallouts. You start in one place, and work your way across the map. The critters and other players in your area are usually around your level. The devs have a clear sense of beginning, middle and end. You went to a town, explored it, solved and caused some problems, and moved on. Good games don't force you into a fight you can't win or don't want and then make you lose everything because of it.
FOnline doesn't have this sense of sequence, and it suffers. I also have no idea why they had to have both F1/2 maps. It's overambitious. Why include 20 towns when you don't have the quests to populate just one town? Sure, we have 500 players, but how many of those do you interact with on any meaningful level. Recruit some quest writers. Get them to go through each town, in order, and start doing quests. Not dotting them randomly about the world.
My ideal FOnline? Coop Fallout.
You'd have your group of wasteland pals, recruit a couple NPCs at the local watering hole, and go do some quests. Most players would be wielding crappy SMGs, beaten up laser pistols and hunting rifles. No player would be able to get so powerful that another player doesn't stand a chance of killing him at any level. Your level would only lead to more skills and perks, not HP. Crafting would only be for the absolute basics, with good gear as quest rewards. Levelling would be slow. Ammo would be rare, and everyone would carry a melee weapon as backup.
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I like it a lot better than pre wipe, it's headed in the right direction I'm just waiting for more content like quests and npc dialog.
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I like it more than pre-wipe, same as Roachor ^up. I would enjoy it more without lags, though. ;) There is really no other problem for me now.
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Do not compare pre-wipe and now, thats not what I meant. Look at the game as a whole and tell me what are its pros and cons and what could improve it in general. As Badger said "It doesn't feel like Fallout, and it doesn't feel like a competent MMO". We would disagree on some points of how should ideal FOnline look like, but he has the point. FOnline ignores familiar basics of its genre and it takes its own path that has too many flaws in its design if we can speak about something like game design in case of FOnline. Its overhauled single player game and you can feel it pretty much everywhere ingame. Thats imho the main and the worst enemy of the FOnline. Its not designed to be MMORPG, it follows olds mechanics that will never suit MMO games and that causes a lot of troubles and boring moments. At some things developers want game to be as close to real life as possible so it will feel real and reasonable but this often collide with abuse problematic. As a result we have some kind of a compromise, whenever its needed the game ignores reason and follows game rules but in other cases its trying to be strictly realistic as it suits the situation.
Yes its always good to know that devs are trying to explain how some events may have occurred and how did you get here and there etc. But the way I see it FOnline should try to be an entertaining game in the 1st place. Everything else should come as 2nd.
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This isn't Fallout 1 or 2 or 3 or Tactics.
It's Fallout Online.
And aside from the name and the graphics (as one dev helpfully pointed out), this isn't actually Fallout as you remember it. Nowhere near it.
I think we keep getting tripped up because we have great memories of FO1/2, and project our expectations that this will be the next great Fallout (not that stupid Oblivion with guns thing that was Fallout 3, eh boys?)
It isn't.
And it's really quite a grind to play.
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I like having a lot of towns. It gives you the sense of freedom to explore that vast wasteland that the original Fallout games gave you. Having more features for those towns to make them more useful and stimulate the players to use them sure would be better though.
I don't like the cooldowns, but they are actually more bearable with the new patch making the gathering cooldowns accumulable.
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As an avid fan of the older Fallouts, its awesome to be able to play an online version.
First tried out the beta last autumn, working with a small group who together managed to form a gang and get a cave to resupply in. Had a lot of fun doing risky trade runs over the whole north, while leaving the actual fighting to the rest of the crew. After the next server wipe we fell apart, since we had mostly been preparing ourselves and our base for some real work when it hit us. Bad timing, I suppose. The few of us who kept on going adapted badly on our own- and we sort of faded away after a while.
Coming back now after the last wipe, I've been trying to get a grip on the changes since then. Much of the stuff involving crafting and factions/towns seems nicer, but as one of those seemingly few barter-focused players out there, I gotta say the changes to that has got me a bit miffed. But hey: Adopt, adapt, and improve. -Motto of the round table. I still find ways to make a living, even on my own.
Overall, I'm not sure I like the direction the game is taking, as I'm quite a gaming masochist.
I like having the wasteland constantly trying to kill me around every corner. If I wont have to fight with claws and teeth to keep what few scraps I can scavenge from an unfair post-apocalyptic world, then it doesnt feel like that world is really taking me seriously. I love that anyone technically can take a gun out and blow my face off at any time I'm in a populated area. If I'm standing still where someone sees me- I got it coming! There should always be risk of being robbed, killed or a combination of both at any time. Constant paranoia really made the game quite an experience for me when I played it last autumn, and I can only hope I'll have to survive equally dangerous situations this time around.
I may hate losing my hard earned stuff, I may curse aloud and have my mood ruined for days at times, but I'll be damned if I don't get stomped into the ground before I rise back up stronger again.
No road should be without sharp rocks and harsh weather, however safe you think it is. It builds character, dammit.
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Constant paranoia really made the game quite an experience for me when I played it last autumn, and I can only hope I'll have to survive equally dangerous situations this time around.
I may hate losing my hard earned stuff, I may curse aloud and have my mood ruined for days at times, but I'll be damned if I don't get stomped into the ground before I rise back up stronger again.
That's a good way to say it. Without the fear of constantly being killed/robbed this game would lose a lot of it's fun. In a world as dangerous as FO's, complacency breeds failure.
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Obviously I hate this game, I play day after day, because I can't get no sadisfaction! 8)
Great work!
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+1
Sius, I've got exactly same feelings about this game right now
+2
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I used to think like you, but now, I think the game is just fine. Not perfect, it have a LOOONG way to go and I don't even think it will come out of beta so soon. But it's pretty good, actually.
I mean, yeah, you die and lose everything, it's pretty harsh if you're beginning... But still, you can keep ALL your caps (in your bank account), experience, and to think about it, there isn't much to have in this game.
In all other MMOs you don't lose ALL your stuff because it's supposed to be HELL hard to have things, you spend hours to level and have those late game equipments, except here you don't. You have, like, 1 armor and 1 weapon, and that's pretty much about it, rofl.
About questing, yeah, the start is really complicated. There is no "gap" from start to the end. You pretty much start in the end. You make the game. You join a gang, or just don't, and go around etc, you don't have much to do. You help others if you want, or just mess up with them, but really, you don't have the common sense of other games, where you start as a real newb, then you do some quests and help some people, and go leveling up like even on fallout 2. It's most likely a sandbox, you just go and... go.
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i have played all normal Fallout games (1,2,3 [3 sucks])
and i somehow find about Fallout online game and then i have played this game a lot,but now this day it just waste of time.
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I've played all the normal fallout games. (1, 2, 3[1 and 2 suck])
And I have somehow found that Fallout Online as frustrating as it is with all the bad patches, is still better than FO1 and 2.
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I've played all the normal fallout games. (1, 2, 3[1 and 2 suck])
Troll :P
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i have played all normal Fallout games (1,2,3 [3 sucks])
Erm... You're missing Fallout Tactics.
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I like full loot/etc. because it makes FOnline stand out from other MMO thingies.
I like having the Maps from both FO and FO2.
As for "sequence", we can have it both ways.
There can be random sandbox and also "Main Quest" chain except that having MQ makes it have an end.
Content insertion is just a matter of time, probably a long time. Maybe a year or two or three...
In the meantime, FOnline is mostly about the metagaming, finding sploits, pking, hoarding, testing character concepts, and so on.
It's fine with me.
I sometimes think of what FOnline would be like if it were made like a normal MMORPG.
Instancing, railroading, carebearing, etc. with the instanced locations being fully stocked as in the original locations.
I would probably still play it, and it would have 10,000 players and a lot of people would think it is great.
You could hang out at the "Wasteland Adventurer Guild" and try to hook up a crew to go "on a Glow Run."
Etc.
Just like any othe MMORPG.
No, I would prefer a slow but sure march toward emergent behaviors/etc. so the world could change like tides depending on economy and gang actions, etc.
Maybe throw in a timeline so there is a Wipe when Fallout 2 time is reached.
In addition to the player-driven changes, there would be scripted changes over time. Also a feedback between the two.
One example of feedback would be prematurely triggering some events/map changes/etc. or delaying or even negating some of them. Some of these things may be special things that are not plotted on the timeline, or are plotted but need to be activated manually in order to happen.
At Wipe time we get a description of the State Of The Wasteland as it stands at the ENDTIME.
Then it restarts and we see how the changes turn out the next time around.
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Well, before the last wipe I actually didn't even play this game even more, for 2-3 months I'd say, because I really was disappointed what a Fallout Online's become.
First, I whined (you know! :P ) then I just simply didn't care anymore. Then I've heard about the upcoming wipe and thought "Hell why no, the first basic levels are fun, I'll try it again". And - what shall I say, I really liked the changes they've made and was really surprised.
As said, the first levels are amazing fun, sure it has some problems with sometimes unfair conditions, especially at the start, but those are issues which can be solved. It's the first time I even cared about making a proper build to craft something average. So I've made a character who is capable in doing some simple crafting stuff (leather armor, hunting rifle etc), a little bit charisma (for brahmin and quests) a good enough stat at endurance and leveled. Invested some points in outdoorsman etc. And all I can say - it's fun!
I really like those new maps lexx did, I find them even better than some of the original. It's simply fun running through abandonend cities and searching for junk, encountering some assholes there, hide and seek etc - then making basic weapons etc. It feels much more like the old familiar fallout then in the times before.
Sure, it's nowhere as close to the old games, but they came nearer to it.
I like that leveling up takes so much longer, that the game encourages me to travel around, even if I don't find the stuff I'm looking for in 10 seconds. I like meeting people who don't shoot me on sight for no apparent reason in the middle of nowhere. I like the new map overhauls f.e in the hub, the little "noob" quests, as I said somewhere else I'm feeling much more like a "wasteland worker" etc.
And the main issue I've had before the wipe - overpowered gangs claiming that this is "their" Fallout. At some point before the wipe I gave up all the northern towns I liked so much playing FO2, for me they simply didn't exist anymore. These are no towns, they are simply battlegrounds. And there was the next issue - the ridicolous fighting. Yes, I know, some people are enjoying it having huge battles with hundreds of players everywhere, but when I saw a video of those fights, with this laser beams, rockets, plasma beams etc. flying around EVERYWHERE and then the players running around like lemmings I just had to laugh because this is so ridolous, it looked so damn out of place. Especially, I always thought we're playing this game as simple wastelanders, no chosen ones etc. Why do all the people then are running around with "high tier" equipment, easy craftable in a matter of time etc? As said, it just feels out of place.
And I know that this time will come again when all gangs have proper bases etc. again, maybe I'm quitting then again, waiting for the next wipe :D. But for now, it's fun for me and I wouldn't change a thing, it's fine as it is.
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... - the ridicolous fighting. Yes, I know, some people are enjoying it having huge battles with hundreds of players everywhere, but when I saw a video of those fights, with this laser beams, rockets, plasma beams etc. flying around EVERYWHERE and then the players running around like lemmings I just had to laugh because this is so ridolous, it looked so damn out of place. Especially, I always thought we're playing this game as simple wastelanders, no chosen ones etc. Why do all the people then are running around with "high tier" equipment, easy craftable in a matter of time etc? As said, it just feels out of place.
And I know that this time will come again when all gangs have proper bases etc. again, maybe I'm quitting then again, waiting for the next wipe :D. But for now, it's fun for me and I wouldn't change a thing, it's fine as it is.
This is part of the metagaming.
Figuring out how to leverage time, teamwork, and opportunity to maximize potentials is a hobby (or obsession) that can be applied to systems. FOnline presents a system.
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This is part of the metagaming.
Yes, but if this is metagaming, why then implement stuff like town control etc. to encourage such behaviour? :D
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Yes, but if this is metagaming, why then implement stuff like town control etc. to encourage such behaviour? :D
Player driven world?
Perhaps some devs find it entertaining?
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I agree with some of you, that even when FOnline ignores classic MMO game concept it still could be entertaining but thats not the current case. The thing I hate the most about the game right now is that "time spent : time enjoyed" rate for me is like 9:1. When I look at many others MMOs then even basic stuff could present an enjoyable and entertaining part of the game. And when its done in group its even better. But FOnline lack this kind of gaming. Yes you can still enjoy even little things ingame but thats differs from player to player. Average guy like me who is not an RPG maniac (yet loves that genre) don't enjoy the game that frustrate him and force him to spend enormous amount of time doing boring stuff alone. And the worst part: I can't affect it in any way.
Yeah you can always grab some ammo and go out hunting some desert stalkers or raid some caves with your friends but devs are pretty much ignoring game's potential. Group play that is the most essential part of any MMO simply does not exist in FOnline mainly because of bad party system and lack of PvE. Same goes for exploration. One of the most entertaining MMO features that do not exist in FOnline world. And of course character development inherited from original games is absolutely not suitable for MMO needs in its current state.
I'm not whining about why don't we have this stuff ingame already, I'm whining about that developers don't even consider this to change.
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Well, I can just give you one tip then. Stop playing and come back in ~ one year. Maybe things changed then. Everything you are ... uh... trying to point out (most of the time I just read how bad an non-fun and how tedious it is, without real things about how to "fix" it for you / other players) will not get changed in one week.
The latest update needed 3 months of work. I actually started with my stuff already in december 2009. You think the update wasn't big enough? Well, but that's how much time it needs. Now imagine all the exploring and group PvE action (which is definitive present right now already) that you want to have... it will need more time. Much more time to get it done.
So... like written in the first sentence. Instead of opening threads about this 'issues' every three days, yeah... like written above. Because we will not be able to change it in one week, along with reworked stealing, reworked sneaking, reworked barter and reworked what so ever. Each day there is a new player who points out to things that should be reworked, up to a point where you think to yourself, is it even worth that work?
Most likely not, still we are doing this. People might be right, we are idiots. :)
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I understand it but as I've posted before we don't know how does FOnline "v 1.0" look like from your point of view. Thats what I don't like. I know that its time consuming work that will not be done over night, but we don't know what we can expect until the very last moment. Why don't you share your vision of future FOnline with us? You don't want to spoil the surprise?
As I've said only thing that keeps me ingame are my expectations and every time when there is new thread in News and Announcements section, then I hope that things will get better. I'm telling myself that I will stay just to wait for that moment when things start getting better but what if they never will and I will not like your FOnline at all? But if they do and the game will be fun and everything, then even tho it was boring I would like to be able to say that I was there when it started. I would like to see some reactions in suggestion threads even when it would mean only simple "No we don't like this idea because x,y - it will most likely never be implemented" or "Yes its a good one, we may use some thoughts from this in future development but its low prio" etc.
So my question is: will you share your plans with us or will you keep your current hugger-mugger way of developing?
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he is the developer he runs the place (thats what they think i guess)
nothing much.
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Well, I can share the actual plans with you: Balancing out every area of the game, while adding new content in PvE and PvP area over the time. First things have more priority, but can't be changed fast. We know that a lot things need to be reworked, but this can only be done step-by-step. Beside this, the game started out as "Faction Mod" and will always stick around in that territory. We will just improve it every once in a while here and there. Basically, what we are doing since obt3 has started. And as you can see right now on the server, in the past 10 months, a LOT has changed and you can't tell me that the changes are bad.
The game will never be easy for players who like to run around alone. You will be able to do this, but don't expect to get high-tech in a fast way. It's clear that groups will always have it a lot easier.
The reason why we don't like to post about specific stuff in the public forum first, is simply because our players like to discuss stuff to death. Things are not even in the game and will be "killed" in many pages of discussion, flame and insults. That's it. Imagine we would have talked about the crafting / gathering changes before the wipe. Even tho' people seem to like it now, I bet most of the players would have hated it, without beeing able to ever test it out. I'll guess the idea would have been killed half-way on the development track and we would now still run from encounter to encounter to mine ore and minerals, with a non-cumulative timeout. How boring and annoying.
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Its pretty easy to work out what we intend.
More PvE, improvements to the NPC faction system, make TC work, make gathering/crafting as interactive and fun as possible without making it take over all your time, provide alternative ways to make your money (slaving, TC, etc), make the game run more smoothly, more quests, making some usless skills worth something, improve balance, implement 3D etc etc.
But at the end of the day, the game is our hobby and not our job, a lot of the time some feature that gets one or more of us interested in it can jump to the head of the queue.
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As both of you posted here ( I agree with nearly everything :) ) just a little question - what happened to lisac? I didn't see him the last few weeks. :-\
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He is very busy with job(s) and family and everything else and this will hold on a long time.
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I think this discussion is really interesting and Sius is asking the good questions.
He's somehow right when he say that there is a lot amount of time spend in the game that is not "enjoyed" by players or at least not enough "rewarded". One of the main problem comes from the idea of not allowing the players get too much stuff too early or too easily.
In fact, i think what i found interesting in "good ol' time" versions of the game, and i'm also talking about pre-OBT 3 and pre-"2238", is the fact that the game wasn't limited like now. I'm not only talking about level cap, it's also about weapons category. At start you could get some guns really easily, and i'm really surprised that a lot of people are shocked when they find some p90 and H&K CAWS easily in encounters near NCR. It's fascinating to see how people are talking about "imba power" when they have one, because these weapons were really really crap during OBT2. The fact that you can get these so easily was normal and balanced by the number of bigger weapons you could get later on.
There were different categories of weapons, and the "starting" weapons were cool, but the best weapons were really hard to get and also very important when you was like level 30. in fact, you really needed one of those if you wanna kill some real high level player. So it was different in term of balance, and it was nice to see people always with some guns, and you were less afraid in loosing your stuff. It brings more crazy actions, more fun, and less frustration when you died etc...
I think it could be a very good idea to reintroduce bigger weaponry, and some kind of "stage 2" or "stage 3" gears. And i know that you are already doing it right now with some gauss on militias, "red" combat armor, etc... But there is still a lot of work to do in this field.
Lexx is also right, you can't work on a game mod that is so ambitious without huge amount of time trying to test and balance game mechanics. The point is that the town control and the factions abilities are by far the best we have seen so far. Crafting system is also very very well done and interesting to play. But i already told you about it (http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=2907.msg26261#msg26261)
I think you are on the right path, and you feel sometime very exhausted, because of the numbers of hours spent in developping and that's totally normal, but one point that Sius told that was very important is what about just asking for help ?
Why don't you ask people to help you in quest/dialogue writing, for the numbers of guards and npc placement in towns, in timeouts balance, and some other "light" stuff ? You will of course keep the "deep" game mechanics for you and you could focus on adding new features, while these guys will just do the really time consuming balancing job, according to what people reports, what they like/dislike etc..
For me Fallout Online 1.0 will be ready when FOnline would have implanted at least all the vanilla stuff, and here i'm also talking about highers perks like "sniper" and "slayer", PAs and APAs, very high level cap and high level PvE areas etc.. Of course it will need a lot of time before finding a good balance for every "stage 2" or "stage 3" stuff and having everything working together in a consistent fashion.
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If we're going to discuss priorities, I find it a little odd that stuff as complex as the TC and crafting system is given priority when weapons and armour remain more or less unchanged from F2. Half the skills are still useless. You can't make a melee character without getting your ass handed to you. Nobody uses Armor Piercing. Traders are still clogged with shit nobody wants to use, and nobody buys anything from them.
If you don't have the time to start experimenting, get someone who does.
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If you don't have the time to start experimenting, get someone who does.
Because since 20.08.2009, we do nothing else than sitting around, watching porn.
Seriously. if you don't have a clue about programming stuff, better be silent.
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Seriously. if you don't have a clue about programming stuff, better be silent.
Because editing FOnline's guns and ammo definitely isn't just editing proto files. No sir.
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No sir.
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Well don't I feel like an idiot. (http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/3559/sadfacec.jpg)
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And what about the critical hit tables and the rest of the weapon stuff? I'll guess Atom can explain it better than me. What I know is, that it's a tad different now, since you left us long time ago.
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awww :(
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You're right. I'm going to ask for you to ban me from both the forum and the game. I've wasted enough of my life here, and I don't have the self control necessary to stop trying to change a game I haven't worked on for a year.
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i wanna say "dont argue kids just play nicely"
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You're right. I'm going to ask for you to ban me from both the forum and the game. I've wasted enough of my life here, and I don't have the self control necessary to stop trying to change a game I haven't worked on for a year.
You'll get your chance to make the correct balancing when SDK is released for public use, which shouldn't be too long from now. Or if you manage to present a design document to Cvet that he approves of.
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Oh just do it. Please.
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Oh just do it. Please.
I don't know much about meth, but I didn't know that it causes fonline addiction additionally. Dopamine is a mystery I guess, and I don't mean it in a sarcastic way.
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Turns it does. Funny world. Now get me the fuck out of here.
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every little bit helps
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methamphetamine
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every little bit helps
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methamphetamine
Lol :P
+ i already knew that... :-[
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u should try mescaline its awesome
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ah peyotle :]
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I just dont get it. People sometimes do ragequit, but why the heck they do that on the forum? Its just ridiculous. Yeah, alright, they let everyone else notice that they're leaving the game. So what? Like someone cares...
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The hell...
I also feel somewhat ignored on forums and have that gnawing feeling that i shouldn't make any suggestions, 'cause nothing out of it would be implemented anyway. Perhaps they are considered stupid by the devs.
Lags, PKs, 'fixes'... I play FOnline anyway. Don't know why, but i can't stop it.
It's only about mining at early hours and gathering XP by walking aimlessly in the Wasteland - thanks for the high Outdoor i gather more than with crafting, my favourite part of the game. *Insert a sarcastic suggestion of nerfing Outdoor here*
I feel somewhat empty right now about the gameplay. Nothing to strive for. Just killing critters. And how comes that the game becomes so laggy after one update?
But thanks for the new mining system, it's really great!
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This wipe was ''1step forward 2steps back''... Some new features like encounters when you are entering location, surprising encounters and other things. But most of changes are bad. Less XP from monsters, less XP from crafting! So how can I make my char 21 level? The best exping way is cleaning brahmin shits. Anyway, exping isn't the biggest problem of this game.
The biggest problem is: GAME IS PRETTY BORING! If I want normal iron, I have to find mining site. Nice, i have 14 ore but for better stuff I don't need normal metal parts! I must have GOOD metal parts. So I must go, and find unguarded mining site. There are 2 options:
1. Some guy with minigun kill me with 1 burst. So I must go to unguarded mining site AGAIN!
2. I have 4 better iron ore. Nice but I need 6 good metal parts-I must wait 20 minutes for cool down, then I must go to mining site AGAIN(!) and AGAIN there are 2 options... Without outdoorsman you can meet 6 encounters on way from base to mining site and back, if your base is near site. If it's far, you can meet much more boring rat encounters. I DON'T WANT PLAY THIS GAME! THIS GAME IS OUT OF FUN!
On 1 fight, you need 1 day crafting. This game is for NO-LIFE people or FOnline ADDICTED people. Normal people who have work or school haven't got time on runing from mining site to base.
But thank you, this wipe released me from FOnline addict, so I have much more time to my life, school and friends.
I liked OBT3 FOnline, I liked pre-wipe FOnline, but I don't like after-wipe FOnline, it's time-eating and boring game...
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Because editing FOnline's guns and ammo definitely isn't just editing proto files. No sir.
Not even "editing" guns is purely proto work. Simple fiddling with numbers there might not be enough to achieve any kind of balance. Mechanics has to be extended to allow flexibility beyond what can be done in old fo2 proto data. Consider the armour piercing ammo. Contrary to what you've claimed, it has seen a lot of use already. Certain ammunitions were given special "ap property" (it was nowhere to be found in original protos), so that firing a weapon with such ammo results in dividing target's DT by 5 (this is equivalent to firing a weapon with the "penetrate" perk). Together with (standard proto) DR mod property, damage output from the ammo is affected by the target's armour only to a small degree, thus making it more effective than non-AP ammo fired from the weapon against heavier armoured targets (fresh CA and two toughness perks, for instance). With this simple and small addition (which had to be done either by adding one line to the combat algorithm, or by creating new proto property and very similar line in code) it's now easier to make two competitive ammo types used by the same weapon. It would be pretty much impossible to do something like that using only vanilla mechanics + changing original proto values (remember what was the nature of AP vs JHP imbalance in FO/FO2: AP's DR mod was starting to become useful only against armours, that had their DT high enough to stop AP bullets from doing any damage completely).
So for the most localized weapon balance problem (two ammunitions in one gun, none of which is strictly better than the other one), we already need a little extension of mechanics, adding one line to the code. Another problem: aimed shots vs. burst - it can be (for better part) boiled down to fiddling around with criticals. But not only the tables, but underlaying formulas too. That would be 2-3 lines somewhere. And then there's different damage cone for shotguns. Two lines.
This "programming" part it is about isn't something humongous. Like mentioned above, eventually it's just few more lines. The point is, adding those lines is inherent part of "editing". And before you add them, you have to find and specify the problem (which comes from shortcomings of what's already in) you are trying to fix.
And that's how it is about guns and ammo editing.
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I also feel somewhat ignored on forums
That's it.
Okay, just ban me too.
Right now.
Please.
Don't forget IRC.
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Turns it does. Funny world. Now get me the fuck out of here.
Pal, what's wrong with you? ???
Someone hacked your forums account?
Always thought you're a bit smarter than the little troll/crying kids. :-\
There is sure some pointless rage in the last few days over here...
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I also feel somewhat ignored on forums and have that gnawing feeling that i shouldn't make any suggestions, 'cause nothing out of it would be implemented anyway. Perhaps they are considered stupid by the devs.
What exactly are you expecting? We can't possibly reply to every idea.
Then saying we never listen to ideas, coming after a Wipe where a large part of the crafting system is based off a suggestion and TC is almost 1:1 from a players suggestion ... its pretty baseless :-\
Constant moaning does nothing but demotivate us for the next set of changes we want to do, especially after what is a reasonably successful update, if you ignore the storm in a teacup about minor price tweaks.
Pretty self defeating when you consider the only reason we do anything is for the fun of it.
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Imho FOnline can't be properly balanced. No with current game mechanics. I don't know how you devs want to change the game in future, but those "harsh" parts of this game are causing that balancing is next to impossible. Just imagine for one second that:
- we would not loose our stuff during respawn
- character development would turn into the fulltime job (higher level cap, less skill points per level, weaker perks with more ranks, professions affecting gameplay, possibility to become apprentice and work your way up as hunter/medic/scientist/soldier, each with its own special perks)
- NPCs would use level scaling so you could encounter lvl 1 ants or lvl 8 ants (separated through contour color or with 3d models through color of skin itself, size etc.)
- exp would not drop per killed mob but would depend on your level vs mob type/level
- items would require skill % in order to use them and/or certain level reached etc...
Yes its not Fallout. Because Fallout is singleplayer that does not care about crafting or respawning or anything similar because you can always save/load. But I think that wilt old F1/2/Tactics mechanics this game will be almost imposible to balance. I'm not saying that what I mentioned is the best way, but I certainly feel that FOnline will not be game for me if some basic stuff like character development or item cycle does not change.
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- NPCs would use level scaling so you could encounter lvl 1 ants or lvl 8 ants (separated through contour color or with 3d models through color of skin itself, size etc.)
- exp would not drop per killed mob but would depend on your level vs mob type/level
Those two really make sense, imho.
Yes its not Fallout. Because Fallout is singleplayer that does not care about crafting or respawning or anything similar because you can always save/load.
True. Same as for guards, for example (whose small amount was really a problem before wipe) : In Fallout 2, they only needed to kill one player at most, in FOnline, it can be up to 50 players sometimes.
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What exactly are you expecting? We can't possibly reply to every idea.
Then saying we never listen to ideas, coming after a Wipe where a large part of the crafting system is based off a suggestion and TC is almost 1:1 from a players suggestion ... its pretty baseless :-\
Constant moaning does nothing but demotivate us for the next set of changes we want to do, especially after what is a reasonably successful update, if you ignore the storm in a teacup about minor price tweaks.
Pretty self defeating when you consider the only reason we do anything is for the fun of it.
But from which players ? I know these players. They stay in NCR all time and doing nothing. They have much of time and etc. But there are other players too and they have good ideas about crafting and PvP too. Sometimes i think that you like ideas only from this "ncr" players, infinite of time for play, without work or schoold kids.
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Sius the original idea that crafting was based on and Nice_Boat for TC.
Not that who proposes an idea matters, its the quality of the idea/arguement.
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Sius was for crafting based ? He was always for fun in this game.
Btw. I dont say that i dont like everything. I like new TC system for example.
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I expect most people will say new crafting is more "fun" if anything. Less "Passive" to quote the complaint.
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the game now is just great, keep up devs :> and yes new crafting system is better :> Just maybe if it would be up to me i would double cooldowns, to double up base prices is items, as i think its a little too low now, but still everything is great :>
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Both new town control and crafting systems are really better than before and good for now. Great work!
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Seems that people really like based something on waiting ? Hm ...
Edit : Big waiting
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I expect most people will say new crafting is more "fun" if anything. Less "Passive" to quote the complaint.
Yes it is true, but we past to many time on it, personally I hate crafting (in any game…) so I am not necessary the best example, but I past 80% of my in game time on this, and 20% on what I really like in the game (PVP / PVE). Sometime I ask myself if I play or if I work ….
I don’t say you work bad etc… I really appreciate all the time you put on this game and you make a great/huge job. But can you make the game more accessible to people who don’t want to craft? If you said you need more time it is ok… Maybe you can explain your long time vision of the game?
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agree with lemark, we lossing to many time for exping new alts, crafting shit and many more
with every wipe we have less time to REAL PLAYING
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+1 Maszrum, Lemark. This becomes BORING. It's not about if game is easy or not, it's about that MOST of the time we must do things, which are boring as hell. I appreciate your non-paid work, I really do. But please listen to players voice - for example http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=2774.0. 84 % for yes and lot of voters, but you just ignore such suggestions. You ignore players voice :(
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Yes it is true, but we past to many time on it, personally I hate crafting (in any game…) so I am not necessary the best example, but I past 80% of my in game time on this, and 20% on what I really like in the game (PVP / PVE). Sometime I ask myself if I play or if I work ….
I don’t say you work bad etc… I really appreciate all the time you put on this game and you make a great/huge job. But can you make the game more accessible to people who don’t want to craft? If you said you need more time it is ok… Maybe you can explain your long time vision of the game?
Man, learn how to play. You can do easily without crafting after wipe. I don't even know why do I play for hybrid character, because I can play pure PvP character easy, but it's too late, plus I don't want to. I don't have alts, and will have only suiciders vs PKs later, I have only one and the main char. Yes, I'm sniper/crafter, but I don't craft my gear anymore and I don't need to, I just wasted alot points in repair and science skills, because I don't need it to play this game. And I don't talk about exploits, it's no matter, even if they fix that, I'll do the same, but a bit slower. And I did almost the same before discovered that thing, and I was doing well. The only thing I can say that is: after wipe you can easily play for non-crafter character easily, even alone, and still get the same gear as crafter-based charater. You just need more experience at this game.
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Man, learn how to play. You can do easily without crafting after wipe. I don't even know why do I play for hybrid character, because I can play pure PvP character easy, but it's too late, plus I don't want to. I don't have alts, and will have only suiciders vs PKs later, I have only one and the main char. Yes, I'm sniper/crafter, but I don't craft my gear anymore and I don't need to, I just wasted alot points in repair and science skills, because I don't need it to play this game. And I don't talk about exploits, it's no matter, even if they fix that, I'll do the same, but a bit slower. And I did almost the same before discovered that thing, and I was doing well. The only thing I can say that is: after wipe you can easily play for non-crafter character easily, even alone, and still get the same gear as crafter-based charater. You just need more experience at this game.
Ho really? Explain me how you lvl up a full PVP Big Guns player and get enough BA, avenger, 5mm AP to fight VSB/RED DOT/BBS/DMC/ROGUES?
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Ho really? Explain me how you lvl up a full PVP Big Guns player and get enough BA, avenger, 5mm AP to fight VSB/RED DOT/BBS/DMC/ROGUES?
After they fix that, I'll tell how to get everything you want, even from players, when you got that you need from someone else for your crap, that must be fixed!
Anyway, I just sold deteorated on 2% metal armor mk2 to 22 HP noob for his 3 beer (which I droped later at the same place), because I have enough of this metal shit and don't die so often to lose it.
Gave another metal armor to guy, only because he is from the same country as I am.
Gave 333 5mm to other guy, because he said "anyone give me ammo?", because I can get another 1k in notime.
Sold ~200.44 magnum ammo or 5mm (can't remember) to other guy for "thanks", because I don't need it.
Gave brahmin hides to bluesuiter, which I bought for 1k caps, because I don't need hides, nor caps (really need, but I can make it.)
Sold deteorated 5% assault rifle to guy for can't remember (flint or scorpion tail).
Also planing to sell rockets to these poor "Ahhh! It's so hard to craft rockets! I'll play SG!".
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we all playing in one server, fonline2238 but some of us playing in completely different game.. there is a lot of different types of players
like me, lemark, samurai - we playing for compete with other gangs in holy wasteland war :>
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Learn how to play ?
Ok now seriously.
2238 dont have only players who want and like crafting and waiting. 2238 have too players who want and like fun from pure PvP. Someone dont understand it ? Learn how to play ? Ravenous please check your words again.
As said Samurai, just listen player voice. And as said Maszrum, everyone dont have too much of time as others.
Please forget for second on crafting and again "add" fun to game !
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we all playing in one server, fonline2238 but some of us playing in completely different game.. there is a lot of different types of players
like me, lemark, samurai - we playing for compete with other gangs in holy wasteland war :>
+1 When I learn the RavenousRat reply I realize we don't really play the same game... He can't understand we don’t need metal mark 2 but BA, we can spend 2 000 5 mm ammo in few minutes, we need a lot more than 1 k to pay all our drugs etc… Maybe the game is more for NCR players than for North crusader…
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Man, learn how to play. You can do easily without crafting after wipe. I don't even know why do I play for hybrid character, because I can play pure PvP character easy, but it's too late, plus I don't want to. I don't have alts, and will have only suiciders vs PKs later, I have only one and the main char. Yes, I'm sniper/crafter, but I don't craft my gear anymore and I don't need to, I just wasted alot points in repair and science skills, because I don't need it to play this game. And I don't talk about exploits, it's no matter, even if they fix that, I'll do the same, but a bit slower. And I did almost the same before discovered that thing, and I was doing well. The only thing I can say that is: after wipe you can easily play for non-crafter character easily, even alone, and still get the same gear as crafter-based charater. You just need more experience at this game.
lol, man, thoes guys you just shat on have thrice the experience you got.
Edit: Thrice the experience you'l EVER GET.
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Learn how to play ?
Ok now seriously.
2238 dont have only players who want and like crafting and waiting. 2238 have too players who want and like fun from pure PvP. Someone dont understand it ? Learn how to play ? Ravenous please check your words again.
As said Samurai, just listen player voice. And as said Maszrum, everyone dont have too much of time as others.
Please forget for second on crafting and again "add" fun to game !
I was talking "learn how to play" meaning not how to act in PvP, or char-building, or something else, I want to say "learn how to not cry and not wait to get items" (and no, I'm not PK, I don't even get this items from someone's bodies)
http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/7540/screen01042010231920.jpg
Everything you see in my inventory I got in... hmm 2 hours?(+I gave around 3 armors total, +alot assault rifles, +different ammo, +alot other things, +I don't like alot crap at my tent and my inventory, so I have only 1-2 gungs at the same time, if I getting 3rd - I droping/selling/dissasebling it.)
lol, man, thoes guys you just shat on have thrice the experience you got.
Edit: Thrice the experience you'l EVER GET.
Sorry for talking about experience, I meant only getting resources and not being crafter.
And btw, I don't have someone's help, I'm loner, and opposite, help others, if I were an evil PK and egoist (;p), I think I get x20 times more items like now.
Btw, now I going for some sniper rifles. ;p
Edit: btw getting 5mm AP ammo one of the easiest things at this game.
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I was talking "learn how to play" meaning not how to act in PvP, or char-building, or something else, I want to say "learn how to not cry and not wait to get items" (and no, I'm not PK, I don't even get this items from someone's bodies)
http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/7540/screen01042010231920.jpg
Everything you see in my inventory I got in... hmm 2 hours?(+I gave around 3 armors total, +alot assault rifles, +different ammo, +alot other things, +I don't like alot crap at my tent and my inventory, so I have only 1-2 gungs at the same time, if I getting 3rd - I droping/selling/dissasebling it.)
Sorry for talking about experience, I meant only getting resources and not being crafter.
And btw, I don't have someone's help, I'm loner, and opposite, help others, if I were an evil PK and egoist (;p), I think I get x20 times more items like now.
Btw, now I going for some sniper rifles. ;p
Edit: btw getting 5mm AP ammo one of the easiest things at this game.
Hehe, funny to learn :P
RavenousRas I invite you to play one day with us (Cajuns), you will see how many stocks we need/use in one day....
I thing you will have a huge surprise...
Edit: Don't forget we are in competition with many good teams and if we want to be competitive we have to lvl up fast (using ammo) and have the better stocks on the market, for us Combat Armor is not enough, we need BA and hunting rifle is useless when your opponent have sniper rifle… You will answer “I can get sniper rifle etc..” But the time you get the sniper a PVP player from north can lose 2 or 3 sniper.
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So instead of making this game enjoyable for newbies and casual gamers we should teach them how to play? Is that your point RavenousRat?
When I play any other game if its Fallout Tactics, Might and Magic or Acromage or anything else you can think of (mmos too) I do it to enjoy my time spend ingame. But with current FOnline I feel more like I'm going to work just to get my char/stuff ready for his 10 minutes of glory until I'm killed. I don't know how you but I've never felt this way in older seasons (and I missed the last "pre-wipe"). And honestly I believe there were some bad calls done with few patches that take all the fun away. I don't have problem with that I will have to spend 3 months leveling my char up to 21st lvl (even when its not the case right now) but I mind if those 3 months will be filled up with nothing but repetition repetition repetition and even more repetition of boring stuff. It was never the case before since leveling was easy and fast more or less so people could focus on what they really enjoy and they did not have to kill their time 24/7 in order to reach that point.
I'm all for making leveling slower but it should be done at the point where we can actually enjoy leveling up through PvE, quests (that are not restricted by charisma, which is imho the worst call ever done in FOnline), playing in groups and sharing our exp with players. But now FOnline is pretty much empty when it comes to endgame activities and only real challenge for player driven factions is TC and PvP (and don't tell me that your gang organizes crafting sessions where you have "The best crafter of the timeout" reward and how much you enjoy it). I would love to see the day we will get PvE challenges for gangs introduced ingame or other activities (organized PvP in arenas/battlegrounds, improving our position within npc driven factions, time/action triggered events, exploration etc.). Yet we will have to wait for this stuff. I get it but the thing I don't get is why do you devs make the path from 0 to fun so complicated when there are no turns we can take on this road and thats making it pretty straight boring and not fun at all. When the game has something more to offer then it might be ready for crafting "fixes" that cut 1/2 of exp or smaller exp with every npc killed, yet the only effect such updates have on the game right now are that they are making it loose its dynamics and fun.
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i hope, some developer will read your post Sius
+5
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Don't forget we are in competition with many good teams and if we want to be competitive we have to lvl up fast (using ammo) and have the better stocks on the market, for us Combat Armor is not enough, we need BA and hunting rifle is useless when your opponent have sniper rifle… You will answer “I can get sniper rifle etc..” But the time you get the sniper a PVP player from north can lose 2 or 3 sniper.
Yes, I understand, but I was talking about how to be self-sufficient non-crafter.
But there's another thing... I'm doing it alone. But if, for example:
I have a gang.
We're hmm... 10 people.
We're all doing the same thing.
In like 15 minutes we'll get 1 sniper rifle.
.223 ammo, I think, easy to craft, I've died in unguarded mine 0 times + if you're not alone it's even harder.
5mm AP... hehehe, if you're 10... you'll get tones in few minutes + you'll get nice XP at the same time.
Don't know about miniguns. May be almost the same as sniper rifles in time. But I'm SGer only, so don't know anything about EW BG. I only tested, that I can get MFCs really fast and really easy, I even started to think about selling it to people... but I'll get caps faster alone without trading ;p
Hunting rifles are useless - no... I use it to get 5mm AP, but also you can use sniper rifles, or assault rifles (JHP ammo, don't waste AP) ;p
Getting bazookas and rockets is very easy, I can create suicide-one-shot-rocketeers alts to kill anyone (with not so high HP) in guarded towns.
About LSW/Laser rifle/Plasma Rifle/or something else, I don't know, because I'm not interested in it.
I just want to say, that you don't need to be a crafter, if you want to be self-sufficient. But... it'll kill all game, if every player you see is PvPer or something. So devs must remove something that they did after wipe. No, crafting/gathering is ok, quests is ok, but this... I'm SG2 prof (soon SG3, but I don't really know why do I need it...), and I almost don't use my crafting skills, I'm just sniper/outdoorsman character who wasted some points on science and repair.
So instead of making this game enjoyable for newbies and casual gamers we should teach them how to play? Is that your point RavenousRat?
When I play any other game if its Fallout Tactics, Might and Magic or Acromage or anything else you can think of (mmos too) I do it to enjoy my time spend ingame. But with current FOnline I feel more like I'm going to work just to get my char/stuff ready for his 10 minutes of glory until I'm killed. I don't know how you but I've never felt this way in older seasons (and I missed the last "pre-wipe"). And honestly I believe there were some bad calls done with few patches that take all the fun away. I don't have problem with that I will have to spend 3 months leveling my char up to 21st lvl (even when its not the case right now) but I mind if those 3 months will be filled up with nothing but repetition repetition repetition and even more repetition of boring stuff. It was never the case before since leveling was easy and fast more or less so people could focus on what they really enjoy and they did not have to kill their time 24/7 in order to reach that point.
I'm all for making leveling slower but it should be done at the point where we can actually enjoy leveling up through PvE, quests (that are not restricted by charisma, which is imho the worst call ever done in FOnline), playing in groups and sharing our exp with players. But now FOnline is pretty much empty when it comes to endgame activities and only real challenge for player driven factions is TC and PvP (and don't tell me that your gang organizes crafting sessions where you have "The best crafter of the timeout" reward and how much you enjoy it). I would love to see the day we will get PvE challenges for gangs introduced ingame or other activities (organized PvP in arenas/battlegrounds, improving our position within npc driven factions, time/action triggered events, exploration etc.). Yet we will have to wait for this stuff. I get it but the thing I don't get is why do you devs make the path from 0 to fun so complicated when there are no turns we can take on this road and thats making it pretty straight boring and not fun at all. When the game has something more to offer then it might be ready for crafting "fixes" that cut 1/2 of exp or smaller exp with every npc killed, yet the only effect such updates have on the game right now are that they are making it loose its dynamics and fun.
Just try to find other aims at this game, like me. ;p I'm going in parties with other players, but it's disadvantageous for me (I'll get everything faster alone), but I don't care, because I just want to get fun at Fallouty game.
When I'll be 21st level, I'll simply hunt all PKs, and really I will do that for just having an aim at this game. Because I don't want to do else, sometimes I getting 2-3 PKs in blacklist / hour, sometimes even faster, sometimes I can't meet any new PK in whole day. So... I think I'll hunt ~70% of all server till I get 21st level. My black list in .docx format in Microsof Office on few pages with very low font size. And it's my aim of this game, that's why I play it.
As I can see you playing it for PvP, but not with principles (hunting PK), you fight against gangs etc. So... it's your aim of this game. And you don't like to wait to get items to start act your aim? Yes, of couse, it's harder to get alot items for every gang member, especially when you can lose 1 sniper rifle/2 minutes. Yes, it's very hard. But when I started my posts at this thread, as you can see, it was adressed to one person who simply don't like to craft rockets. There wasn't anything about "Ahh, I'm bored crafting alot BAs and miniguns and 5mm and sniper rifles etc. for my gang".
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But you know how much time you must waste in game for stuff on 10 min in big battle ? How much 5mm or armors ? I mean big PvP battle. Not fight against raiders.
Again, only waiting and again waiting IS NOT fun.
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I don't do PvP because I would have set is as my goal. I do PvP because its the only real engame interaction that FOnline has right now. In every other mmo I've played I was dedicated PvE player and if I can tell, then I was valuable member for my team/guild and we had some great times. Sure I tried PvP too and I was pretty good at it in most of the games but it often makes me angry to find out that there are better players than me and my keyboard could tell that its not good when I'm angry. Thats what I love on PvE. When you loose you can always get back and try again, improve yourself and when you finally kill that son of a ***** boss and claim your reward then its priceless feeling. If its 5 man group of low levels or 40 man raid of the top players from the server good PvE means more to me than PvP.
My point is that in current game you sure can take your 21 lvl chars and go chitchat into the caves and hunt something down but I prefer doing something that matter and can be seen in the world. I love when I see that my effort has caused something and I was rewarded for it. I like to develop and build stuff if its WoW or Sims it does not matter. Yet FOnline lack these features. Some can do without them, some can not.
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Heh, crafting is a lot fast. A LOT faster. Provides you with a gathering timeout, etc etc, bla bla bla. We all know crafting is faster.
Why are your complaints not your real complaints? :)
Why PvPers are complaining about a system which has PvP inherently built into it (on unguarded maps) makes me very puzzled.
As for PvE, we've already said we intend to add more ... why the need to repeat it over and over?
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So for you is all waiting in this game good, funny and better ?
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What waiting?
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Too many kittenz i tell you!
Now for real most people are short sighted and cant see further then their own interest and they are the loudest. Every game has em its within humans nature to whine..
I mainly like the game coz its Fallout , i loved it then its fun to play that old style game as mmo.
I understand the need for crafting/geathering to have timeouts ...
think about it this way - the faster you can achive everything you want the faster the game gets boring and devs cant realy add stronger creatures / weapons /armors - it would be derailing the game of its origin.
Wouldnt get boring coz you can PvP? it would rather turn into quake then still be rpg. and belive me you would get borred wery fast.
What waiting?
they should play a MUD . they would know wtf waiting is XD
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ive been playing Fonline since the second week of september (got my first try in later august) of 2009. Yeah theres been ups and downs through out the times of wipes and such but i love it cause its fun to see what kind of spin the devs and the community bring to the game. Also, like someone said earlier I'm an oldschool kinda guy and fallout is ol school :P so.. if the shoe fits 8)
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yesterday we had the opportunity to return to the past and remind yourself of the game looked like a few months ago. as you have probably noticed - the game has changed completely! developers have done a really good job. although I must admit - I miss some features of the earlier version of the game .. the game was easier, quicker and more fun, get most of the items in the forms of farming caravan. This was much faster and more exciting than working in the mine
i understand that crafting is a very important part of the game, but it was just find a balance between the two ways to get some items
btw. i still hear something like that "this is not a quake! this is ROLEPLAY" - fonline is a game - i take pleasure form compete with other players/gangs and i dont want to play quake ;p if you really want to play ROLEPLAY, try in theater ;p
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2238 dont have only players who want and like crafting and waiting. 2238 have too players who want and like fun from pure PvP.
Then go ahead, have some fun from PvP. I don't remember sending any Spartans in blue pyjamas up North, besides Science doesn't work in combat anymore. But, to be honest, was ever all this spartan-bullshit a real threat? C'mon.
I can hardly believe what I see here - members of almost all large and famous gangs, like BBS, VSB, DMC and so whine here like noob for his lost shovel. Strange, no?
Unless you realize that none of pure PvP players will use his battle char below 21 lvl. Grinding XP from FA, by using some magical script for hit & heal merc in base is now impossible due to weakness after use this skill. Gathering junk from barrels, by using bots placed in scrapheap for all night is gone - now you need to find it in random places. Mining was never as "interactive" as it is now - but again, you can't place a bot in crowded place like mining camp, and private mine is still too expensive for what it offers.
So game became unplayable because of above reasons, and unless you are 250 HP tank with double Toughness, 250% combat skill and Jet supplies counted in thousands? Oh my, now I'm worried.
All about "itanz", no matter is it BA and Avenger, or leather jacket and 10 mm pistol.
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... realize that none of pure PvP players will use his battle char below 21 lvl. Grinding XP from FA, by using some magical script for hit & heal merc in base is now impossible due to weakness after use this skill. Gathering junk from barrels, by using bots placed in scrapheap for all night is gone - now you need to find it in random places. Mining was never as "interactive" as it is now - but again, you can't place a bot in crowded place like mining camp, and private mine is still too expensive for what it offers.
So game became unplayable because of above reasons, and unless you are 250 HP tank with double Toughness, 250% combat skill and Jet supplies counted in thousands? Oh my, now I'm worried.
All about "itanz", no matter is it BA and Avenger, or leather jacket and 10 mm pistol.
I love the crazy PvP battles, but resources are scarce in the wasteland.
I like that it is simulated that way now.
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I enjoy this game more than ever with this session.
Gameplay is richer and more consistent and logical than ever, in my opinion. (note that I ve only seen the two last wipes though)
Mining has been made less boring and my favorite part of fonline -the beginning of the session where everybody work hard to get stuff- is being delightfully long.
Content starts to be really exciting. (I spend hours in the train.)
So many thanks to the devs and keep up the good work, it is appreciated.
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What waiting ? You must wait very long time for everything. Everyone know it. Where is fun and reward for job ? Fighting with someone and lost my 1 day work ? Some people have work and dont hhave too much time. They want some fun. They come here and what they have ? Only waiting and frustrate from leveling char. This is pure truth.
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Fighting with someone and lost my 1 day work ?
That's a deal all the MMORPGs have. If you lose a fight, you'll also lose your gear or parts of your gear, that value at least hours of work.
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Izual: Yes but now, if you loose fight, you loose 24 hours clear crafting time. People who have job can't daily play 12 hours to get their stuff. Playing for drug addicted big gunnes is imposible for people with normal life... Now the wasteland is full of SMG-guys, that's not good.
I'm enjoying crafting system, sometimes it's fun, but it takes most of my playing time and I don't like this fact.
Crafting is too slow and you gain really small amount of experience...
BTW How much money cost private mine?
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75k for a private mine. Try joining a gang, it will make stuff easier.
Just wanted to add: Before people complained about people with rocket launcher, now its gone down to smg :D
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Completely not true, Izual, you should try other MMORPGs then and see what's different there.
Personally, with every update I can notice the part of the same cycle:
1. People PKing in the North, large battles, thousands of 5mm, 223 ammo, combat/metal armors, weapons used, some random dudes from the south killed in the process.
2. Crying about PK and bad PvPers with 21 lvl chars, 2 toughness, 250hps tons of jet and shitload of other stuff (gangs have everything and I don't (cry))
3. An update =) Making gaining experience harder, gathering/crafting taking more time, nerfing weapons/ammo
4. PvPers crying that they have now to waste twice the time on gathering/crafting/exping
5. No-PvPers happy that they've got their revenge for countless deaths in the north (HAHAHAHAHA LMAO CRY BIG GUNNERS NOW YOU ARE FUCKED UP!!!! HAHAHAHA CRY CRY MORE), devs stating that PvPers should go fuck themselves
6. PvPers finding new exploits/fast gathering/crafting/exping methods
then again....
1. People PKing in the North, large battles, thousands of 5mm, 223 ammo, combat/metal armors, weapons used, some random dudes from the south killed in the process.
.... and so on
It leads to -------> NOWHERE.
Anyway, I wanted to say sth about so-called "role-playing" on 2238. Throughout last 8 months, I've seen various RP actions/events/attempts, some were successful, but the others (unfortunaly, most of them) were a complete failure, due to the lack of possibilities/people getting lazy/people realising that roleplay involves something more than just chatting and using /e or /o
The war between PvPers and roleplayers or crafters or whatever you gonna call them is going nowhere, as due to endless complaints made by them (mostly, just to make the other side's gameplay less interesting), devteam release another "fix" and someone gets nerfed again.
I KNOW that many of you like PvP as much as RP, and this fact makes whole thing even more stupid.
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Lets take a look why do we have this situation here:
There are people who like PvP and people who don't. Those who don't like it most likely end up in NCR and they gather/craft/farm stuff all day long with their friends. They do some quests, take a train ride and fight some cave tribals, get killed few times from PKers and then they move on. Someone enjoy it but I dare to say that half of server population don't. And those who don't enjoy it have only thing left for them and thats competitive PvP. Whenever its done just to gain more items or fight against another gang it does not matter. But PvPers are ridiculously limited by some "clever" mans idea of CH requirement for quests, they can't level up through crafting so only thing left for PvP build to do is to obtain weapon/ammo and fight NPCs. Also "obtaining weapon/ammo" means create an alt and do the work that you absolutely don't enjoy just to be able to level up your main char, and leveling up is pain in the *** and right now so for such char its no win situation. Its nothing else but boring and long work. And the real fun for such players comes only when they are possible to compete with others = 21 lvl, PvP build and good gear or else you will get eaten alive.
And again I do not PvP because I like it better over PvE. I PvP because its the only real engame activity that FOnline has. And I'm not alone who feels this way. So you divide community into 2 sides. One is pretty ok with current state because there is no real change for them. They do what they want and its slightly slower. But the other half suffers and whines on forums.
I'll quote myself for all of you that don't see this. Read next lines carefully and then tell me: am I just another whiner who wants "I win button" or is there a bit of truth in my words?
When I play any other game if its Fallout Tactics, Might and Magic or Acromage or anything else you can think of (mmos too) I do it to enjoy my time spend ingame. But with current FOnline I feel more like I'm going to work just to get my char/stuff ready for his 10 minutes of glory until I'm killed. I don't know how you but I've never felt this way in older seasons (and I missed the last "pre-wipe"). And honestly I believe there were some bad calls done with few patches that take all the fun away. I don't have problem with that I will have to spend 3 months leveling my char up to 21st lvl (even when its not the case right now) but I mind if those 3 months will be filled up with nothing but repetition repetition repetition and even more repetition of boring stuff. It was never the case before since leveling was easy and fast more or less so people could focus on what they really enjoy and they did not have to kill their time 24/7 in order to reach that point.
I'm all for making leveling slower but it should be done at the point where we can actually enjoy leveling up through PvE, quests (that are not restricted by charisma, which is imho the worst call ever done in FOnline), playing in groups and sharing our exp with players. But now FOnline is pretty much empty when it comes to endgame activities and only real challenge for player driven factions is TC and PvP (and don't tell me that your gang organizes crafting sessions where you have "The best crafter of the timeout" reward and how much you enjoy it). I would love to see the day we will get PvE challenges for gangs introduced ingame or other activities (organized PvP in arenas/battlegrounds, improving our position within npc driven factions, time/action triggered events, exploration etc.). Yet we will have to wait for this stuff. I get it but the thing I don't get is why do you devs make the path from 0 to fun so complicated when there are no turns we can take on this road and thats making it pretty straight boring and not fun at all. When the game has something more to offer then it might be ready for crafting "fixes" that cut 1/2 of exp or smaller exp with every npc killed, yet the only effect such updates have on the game right now are that they are making it loose its dynamics and fun.
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What waiting ? You must wait very long time for everything. Everyone know it. Where is fun and reward for job ? Fighting with someone and lost my 1 day work ? Some people have work and dont hhave too much time. They want some fun. They come here and what they have ? Only waiting and frustrate from leveling char. This is pure truth.
I think my main point is that waiting decreased dramatically this wipe.
CA = 2 hours from 5.3 hours (37.74% of waiting time)
Avenger =2.35 hours from 5.34 hours (44% of waiting time)
Sniper is now 1 hour, was over two? something like that
etc.
Then you have cumulative cooldowns too, so that decreases waiting in the game again.
Then the traders can pay out full price for whatever you get from encounters AND offer stuff that is actually useful, reducing the need to craft at all and further decreasing waiting in the game again.
Where has waiting got worse?
The only thing that changed with xp was stopping an exploit with FA. Its still not that long to level, unless you are using many alts. Answer for that, don't use loads of alts, we've made it a lot easier to play without using alts.
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Solar you made yourself a nice math bubble around FOnline and all you can see are numbers and you argument through them in every 2nd post of yours. Yea crafting seems better and less passive than what was before but have you ever tried to play this game from 0 to 21 as PvP build? Just try it with some guys from Rotators and join us in TC under some fake nicks. Taste our way of seeing FOnline and THEN tell me how much you enjoyed playing it.
I don't know what was last pre-wipe since I was not playing but can't you see the change you did with exping? Was there any whining about game being boring during season 1/2? I'm just repeating myself here over and over again. Game has not much to offer right now when it comes to leveling up and its even more flat when you level up as PvP build but you keep making leveling up longer and more boring. But for what cause? What was so bad about S1/2 leveling that you have to change it? You didn't like people having fun quickly or what?
As I said X times before: "When the game has something more to offer then it might be ready for crafting "fixes" that cut 1/2 of exp or smaller exp with every npc killed, yet the only effect such updates have on the game right now are that they are making it loose its dynamics and fun."
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I upped my 17th level yesterday with FA :D Well... I had only 30XP left but so...
Once and for all, I want to say that. If the game isn't that cool for some people, it's because of the players. Well, we aren't supposed to be players, but to be beta-testers. Doesn't matter. I like the game, and since August 16th I never wanted to stop playing because I was fed up by the game mechanics. The game is indeed cool, and if people stop whining and start to play for real they will see that I'm right. Some features are bugged, or not finished, or not implemented yet, but that's not the point ! The devs give us tools (= the game, the features), what we do with it is on our hands. Why people whine ? Because they got killed, because they can't craft, because they can't wait, and so on. But... it's not devs' fault. It's players fault. Well, once again the point isn't to know who did what, but how to make the most possible people to be happy.
You bluesuits are fed up got killed everytime you enter in a town ? You don't manage to have and keep stuff ? PvP doesn't interest you ?
DO SOMETHING !
Don't just say "boo-ooh this game sucks". Find other players. Interact. Make friends. Make ennemies too. Regroup and protect the town by yourselves, instead of let NPC weak guards to do it. Barter with real players. Do quests. And for the god's health, STOP GETTING GLUED TO NCR ! Did you noticed that there's a game outside ? Yeah yeah, a real one, with things to do and so on...
Since the last wipe and the more of 500 players, I'm sooo happy to see that new unknown factions are showing 'em up and do Town Control ! Because before that, the only players that I knew was : my alliance (NA), Red Dot, DMC, and SoT. And the others 300 players ? Never heard about them. So please c'mon on the North, make towns living places, not AI or fighting places. You will be surprised, if there's 30 to 50 players in one town, nobody will be PKed by a team. Or if it will happen, then the 25 bluesuits survivor will rush on the "evil" team and punch 'em out of the town.
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Maths > Ranting over subjective opinions. Always has, always will.
I will be playing as soon as my computer decides it wants to be nice, though I won't be playing it purely to PvP on town maps. If I PvP it will probably be to kill people on hq maps :)
Diminishing xp was brought in to stop people levelling purely on easy things to kill (floaters, centaurs). The only thing wrong with it is not enough catagories yet and weird base xp for critters.
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I guess we have to wait until we are able to gain most of the EXP by making quests. Making the raiders quest was one of the best moments so far, because you realy had the feeling that you are playing Fallout. Combined with the crafting system I expect a very good game in the future. Till now I have to agree with the others: FOnline is pretty boring at the moment. But I'm patient, I bet it's getting more exciting from week to week.
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The only thing wrong with it is not enough catagories yet and weird base xp for critters.
Adding more catagories would be awesome. For now, if you were not smart enough and killed those small scorpions and little rats at first levels, you wil suffer from diminishing hard after 5-6 lvl. Rats and mutated molerates are in the same group as Ive noticed, its pain.
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Yup, but, as I understand it, its a technical issue with making that work at the moment. So we must wait
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I have a suggestion for PvP gangs to obtain some stuff : instead of hoard the amount of loot you get from the fights, sell it to the traders, barter it with players...
I don't really see the point in piling tons of CAs, miniguns, LSW... that you 'll never use.
Same with the amount of caps you get from town control and you compile in your base.
I know it's not the ultimate solution of your "problem".
And if you don't want to wait in your base/mine, you should go for a hunting party with your friends in the desert with shitty weapons, it's better than nothing.
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I have a suggestion for PvP gangs to obtain some stuff : instead of hoard the amount of loot you get from the fights, sell it to the traders, barter it with players...
I don't really see the point in piling tons of CAs, miniguns, LSW... that you 'll never use.
Same with the amount of caps you get from town control and you compile in your base.
I know it's not the ultimate solution of your "problem".
And if you don't want to wait in your base/mine, you should go for a hunting party with your friends in the desert with shitty weapons, it's better than nothing.
I don't know how to obtain any items by selling loot (which is mostly composed of things you are using) to traders - also, sell for what? Caps? They rarely have any. Also, piling tons of CAs and miniguns and LSWs is some kind of myth made by non-PvPers, as this equipment is used in the fights and to be viable, every team needs to maintain its supplies.
Also, I don't see any point in forcing players to go hunt scorps from boredom. Yeah, I know that everyone is free to ragequit, but is that what devs want? Players quitting their game? So weird
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So, if we have
-Dropping crafting timeouts
-Creating more PvP areas, at which most players will venture at one point or the other
-Easier traders (to spend TC at, was where I was actually hinting towards)
As bonuses to PP players ... weighed up against fixing FA xp abusing being fixed.
Don't see why there is whine, can anyone actually explain it with some kind of supporting evidence?
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Don't see why there is whine, can anyone actually explain it with some kind of supporting evidence?
Play the game as PvP build and try to make your living... you will get your evidence that game has BECAME boring every single hour you will spend leveling up.
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Play the game as PvP build and try to make your living... you will get your evidence that game has BECAME boring every single hour you will spend leveling up.
Don't hurry with leveling, but waiting with getting items.. no... I'm so sorry, I lied about getting sniper rifle in 15 minutes by 10 people, because I just now got 1 sniper rifle alone for like 10-15 minutes (most of time lagging, so without lags on 2-3 minutes faster... and... I'm not SG3 prof, and don't even need it)... 10-15 minutes... alone, if you're in a faction of 10 people (any level, even 1, only 1 guy of 10 must have some skills) you'll make sniper rifle/2 minutes. Again, don't know about BG/EW, but I don't think it'll have huge difference, I mean, not 1 gun/hour, it'll be max 1 gun/5 min, if it's very very very cool gun. This game getting boring, 'cause of easy-to-get items... I'm not even afraid to lose all equipment, because I'll make it fast again ;p
But... it's only for non-faction players, but... what if every faction player will work like 10 non-faction players at the same time, so.. you should find other way how to get your gear. ;p
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So, if we have
-Dropping crafting timeouts
-Creating more PvP areas, at which most players will venture at one point or the other
-Easier traders (to spend TC at, was where I was actually hinting towards)
As bonuses to PP players ... weighed up against fixing FA xp abusing being fixed.
Don't see why there is whine, can anyone actually explain it with some kind of supporting evidence?
We want a way to level up a full pvp without charisma/crafting lvl. I understand you need more time to add some new mobs, but for now we kill everything X 15 and we don’t get 20% of the exp needed for lvl 21. Maybe you can remove the depressive xp until you add new mobs?
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Don't hurry with leveling, but waiting with getting items.. no... I'm so sorry, I lied about getting sniper rifle in 15 minutes by 10 people, because I just now got 1 sniper rifle alone for like 10-15 minutes (most of time lagging, so without lags on 2-3 minutes faster... and... I'm not SG3 prof, and don't even need it)... 10-15 minutes... alone, if you're in a faction of 10 people (any level, even 1, only 1 guy of 10 must have some skills) you'll make sniper rifle/2 minutes. Again, don't know about BG/EW, but I don't think it'll have huge difference, I mean, not 1 gun/hour, it'll be max 1 gun/5 min, if it's very very very cool gun. This game getting boring, 'cause of easy-to-get items... I'm not even afraid to lose all equipment, because I'll make it fast again ;p
But... it's only for non-faction players, but... what if every faction player will work like 10 non-faction players at the same time, so.. you should find other way how to get your gear. ;p
Dude can you stop to try to explain us how to play, we know all your tweak, but this is not the way we like to play so play like you want and stop pissing me off by trying to show us YOUR way!
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We want a way to level up a full pvp without charisma/crafting lvl. I understand you need more time to add some new mobs, but for now we kill everything X 15 and we don’t get 20% of the exp needed for lvl 21. Maybe you can remove the depressive xp until you add new mobs?
i havent killed all critters x12 and i have 18 lvl already, if you are so poor in getting exp for killing try mentats and doing quests, its very cheap now anyway.
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I dont know wtf is this about devs this supposed to be positive thread i think you should delete all whine posts ...
some seem to think that crafting was made harder ... woot ? ah your nice bot script doenst work anymore ? so sad .....
by fucks sake i dont have real f idea what those people want ... one thing that every single one wants something else .. another thing is that even single players sometimes seem to not knwo what they want?
ARe you agaisnt fool loot ? FOnine cant have progresive gear like normaly MMOs have so there is need to be way for you to lose stuff +its funnier to PvP when you actually gain/lose something in it.
Crafting takes too long ... there is need for balance in it - the faster you can make it the lower value it has. It wouldnt be realy good if everone could run around in their best stuff not rly worring if they lose it.
Leveling up slow ? wel for beta i might be slow but in fact is not that slow, the more problem here i would say is that you need to eat loooads of ammo to get the final levels ..... but personaly i think its fine .... if you will start enjoying the game rather then "i must get ot 21 i must get ot 21 i must get to 21" it turns out to be much better. (try some eastern mmo to see what slow leveling is)
I dont know what to add .....
you dont like it dont play it ...
you think stuff can be changed ? ok go and make some nice suggestions and put them in suggestions foum (and note here even if your changes will be liked and devs will like them they probably wont make it in before next wipe) .
BUT FUCKING STOP THE WHINE
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Okay, I halt reading on the sixth page, still I NEED to say something here.
I don't really know how to express my feeling... I guess I'll have to think my words.
Yes, the devs are putting their work on it. We can't expect to have a perfect game in a few months, and for the OP, I think you already knew what where the devs expectation of a fallout release: a enjoyable game. That's what we all want. It's a GAME, it's supposed to be fun. There are some issues to be balanced, and to be improved, but that's what the devs are doing. When the game is good enough they will release it, no ETA, simple as that.
And keep in mind that Fallout is NOT A GAME OF EVERY TASTE, you CAN'T expect it to be "like this or like that", the game is as it is. If you like it, you play, if you don't, don't you expect the game to fit your needs, the game must fit you as it is. They will not change the whole concept of wasteland, because they don't need/want this kind of public. There are people who are wanting a complete different game, and that's not gonna happen.
But what I'm really feeling and talking about, is... I think it's frustration. But I don't really know.
Every time I read RavenousRat's posts I get a little bit unmotivated. Since this forum didn't even exist, but were a subforum on NMA. He don't play for enjoyment. He is hardcore, I mean, he really don't have a life.
I'm not criticizing him, there are people who do this in every game, and FOnline is no exception, but hell, he already discovered a fucking unbalancing bug. How can someone expect that I will keep playing if people are getting unfair advantage? He is always abusing from bugs, since I first put my eyes on any post of him he says he abuse from a bug.
Yes, bugs need fix, but fuck, why are they always so unbalancing?
I won't play FOnline since I discover "RavenousRat teachings of how to play abusing of bugs and without crafting at all".
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Leveling up slow ? wel for beta i might be slow but in fact is not that slow, the more problem here i would say is that you need to eat loooads of ammo to get the final levels ..... but personaly i think its fine .... if you will start enjoying the game rather then "i must get ot 21 i must get ot 21 i must get to 21" it turns out to be much better.
Exactly. Getting 21st level must be something really really hard. Because if you got max. of something, that means you ended this game, so everyone start to create alts, so they'll have alot 21st lvled alts. If you want to get 21st level, you must focus on your the only character and (when it'll be in non-beta stage) get your 21st level not in month, or even faster, you must get it in like a year or something. Because you must always have something to achieve, getting 21st level = you don't have anything to achieve.
Edit:
Okay, I halt reading on the sixth page, still I NEED to say something here.
I don't really know how to express my feeling... I guess I'll have to think my words.
Yes, the devs are putting their work on it. We can't expect to have a perfect game in a few months, and for the OP, I think you already knew what where the devs expectation of a fallout release: a enjoyable game. That's what we all want. It's a GAME, it's supposed to be fun. There are some issues to be balanced, and to be improved, but that's what the devs are doing. When the game is good enough they will release it, no ETA, simple as that.
And keep in mind that Fallout is NOT A GAME OF EVERY TASTE, you CAN'T expect it to be "like this or like that", the game is as it is. If you like it, you play, if you don't, don't you expect the game to fit your needs, the game must fit you as it is. They will not change the whole concept of wasteland, because they don't need/want this kind of public. There are people who are wanting a complete different game, and that's not gonna happen.
But what I'm really feeling and talking about, is... I think it's frustration. But I don't really know.
Every time I read RavenousRat's posts I get a little bit unmotivated. Since this forum didn't even exist, but were a subforum on NMA. He don't play for enjoyment. He is hardcore, I mean, he really don't have a life.
I'm not criticizing him, there are people who do this in every game, and FOnline is no exception, but hell, he already discovered a fucking unbalancing bug. How can someone expect that I will keep playing if people are getting unfair advantage? He is always abusing from bugs, since I first put my eyes on any post of him he says he abuse from a bug.
Yes, bugs need fix, but fuck, why are they always so unbalancing?
I won't play FOnline since I discover "RavenousRat teachings of how to play abusing of bugs and without crafting at all".
Oo? I'm hardcorer? Wtf? I just said that you don't need to be a crafter and wait 3485734985 hours to get your gear, that's all. But... I'm crafter, because I don't want to start new character, I created him instantly after wipe, and didn't create any other character. Also I'm not hardcorer, because my character isn't PvPer or focusing on something. I playing this game only, because of Fallout 1/2, nothing more. If I didn't know what is it, I've never wanted to play FOnline.
Then abuse...abuse...abuse, btw, this is not a bug, just... hmmm... you ALL can do that, simply don't see that, and devs made it normal to do, simply they missed something, or, may be it's even normal? Anyway, even if I'm an abuser, I don't use it bad aims, I simply buying 10 brahmins hides sometimes for 1k and giving to bluesuiter, or giving items to other people, so I helping people who has NOTHING. Yes, I have CA+sniper rifle for almost "nothing", but I don't want to do that, that's why I explained everything by PMing dev and asked to solve this problem. Don't worry, I don't use it everytime/always, most of time I staying in NCR in combat armor and sniper rifle and buying brahmins hides/giving items to people. Also each time when someone asks me "how you making this", I answering "you shouldn't know about this ;p" So it's np, I'm not abuser or hardcorer, I just want to play this game as it is.
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Exactly. Getting 21st level must be something really really hard. Because if you got max. of something, that means you ended this game, so everyone start to create alts, so they'll have alot 21st lvled alts. If you want to get 21st level, you must focus on your the only character and (when it'll be in non-beta stage) get your 21st level not in month, or even faster, you must get it in like a year or something. Because you must always have something to achieve, getting 21st level = you don't have anything to achieve.
Lol, that's the dumbest thing I ever heard from you.
So the game is all about leveling? Of course not. Leveling plays little part on every fun game. Offline games are for the story, but online games shouldn't be about leveling. There must be late-game content that you can only do exactly when you're level capped, so you just get max level to do those things (I could use as an example here TC, Gangs and Factions, since there are not instanced dungeons or something, and quests are mostly for leveling or getting titles).
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so play like you want and stop pissing me off by trying to show us YOUR way!
Funny, exactly the same thing I could say to all these "OMFG i cant play meh game cuz im too lazy/lame/stupid/it's much harder to achieve 21 hax0r lvl in one day DO SOMETHGIN !!!111oneone". Actually it is not funny, it is terrifying - how experienced and game-educated people can behave when they can loose with bunch of no-lifers. Guess what - you will always loose with no-lifer, because he spends much more time playing than regular player having work, school, family and so on. I know exactly what I'm talking about, my char is on 7th level since Tuesday, because I had to work and earn real money instead of playing some computer game and earning virtual caps.
I don't know if any of "so much waiting" guys tried to dig something without using bot - it is really much more faster now. And yeah, you have to risk to get better materials and stuff, and you can't left bot with brahmin at Gecko's mine. Same rules for everyone - what is wrong with that?
This wipe brought some major changes and suddenly there is 500-600 players at rush hours, before there was 300-400. All these are alts/bots?
"My PvP char has 1 CH and he can't do quests" - so what? It was your choice to make supah-powah-snipah with awesome combat skill, but ugly as ghoul and completely retarded while wandering through Wastes (who the hell needs Outdoorsman anyway?). Charisma doesn't mean shit in Fallout? Try to play 1 CH char in F1/F2 and share this amazing experience. My char has 1 LK, he is constantly falling on the ground in combat because of this - but no-one ordered me to do this char, moreover some friends told me I'm making a big mistake.
I'm not sure if dividing players for "northern-pvp only" and "southern-ncr bin only" is properly. I know some, you could say, "northern butchers" who had a lot of serious fun from RP-like noobish stuff, and also some "ncr-bin lovers" who shoots before asking questions. It is not black and white as you want to see it.
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Exactly. Getting 21st level must be something really really hard. Because if you got max. of something, that means you ended this game, so everyone start to create alts, so they'll have alot 21st lvled alts. If you want to get 21st level, you must focus on your the only character and (when it'll be in non-beta stage) get your 21st level not in month, or even faster, you must get it in like a year or something. Because you must always have something to achieve, getting 21st level = you don't have anything to achieve.
1st of all mmo has no ending. Its about endgame activities and leveling up should be just a small part of a fun that awaits at the max lvl. But FOnline is beta and as such it lacks content on both leveling and endgame part of the game. I agree that leveling should be slow and step by step but not when there is nothing to do while you level up. You all think that we are whiners but you see it just from your point of the view and you refuse to imagine yourselves in our position. When I suggest something then I always try to be as much objective as I can but you are not even trying to do that.
Two main sources of exp are absolutely not accessible for PvP chars. You see they can't craft and they can't do quests because somewhere at season 2 when floater/centaur killing was like rocket lvling someone suggested that quest should be CH based so powerbuild would have disadvantage. Back then it was not a real deal since there were like 5 quests and you didn't get much reward from them. But now they matter and we are completely cut from them. Its like we would not allow crafters to use guns until they take weapon handling perk or better criticals. Absolute nonsense that only limit game content for certain group of players. So we are left with hunting NPCs and killing them over and over again until we reach max lvl. Thats long and boring run and I'm asking WHY ON EARTH do we have to spend so much time ingame repeating boring stuff when we could be doing something we enjoy without spending 24/7 ingame just to reach it?
Its beta and there is missing content so why do you make gap between players and content (competitive PvP and TC) bigger with every patch and you don't fill up empty space with anything else we could do while we level up. Thats what changed significantly about FOnline and thats what making current season the most boring season I played. Before you just registered your char, stayed ingame for 1/2 hours a day and you could enjoy gang wars in one week. Now its more like you get ingame, you work for 5 hours just to have enough bullets to level up next 4 levels and then you go hunting some stalkers or something with few people. Its not whining, its simple statement that you made this game boring for many people and you did not provide anything how to enjoy that enormous time we have to spend ingame to reach our goals and finally get some fun out of the game. Thats what this is about! >:(
"My PvP char has 1 CH and he can't do quests" - so what? It was your choice to make supah-powah-snipah with awesome combat skill, but ugly as ghoul and completely retarded while wandering through Wastes (who the hell needs Outdoorsman anyway?). Charisma doesn't mean shit in Fallout? Try to play 1 CH char in F1/F2 and share this amazing experience. My char has 1 LK, he is constantly falling on the ground in combat because of this - but no-one ordered me to do this char, moreover some friends told me I'm making a big mistake.
And here you are completely wrong my friend. If we spend some points in charisma we get weakened by it. We have to reduce that weakening with drugs or just settle with that we will have simply average and no longer PvP build. But here is the problem: some guys don't care about it and they still make 1ch char and thanks to that they will own our asses. So as answer to their build we have to create new chars and fight their way so we can compete with them. Thats simple and natural escalation that should never be discriminated. Take example from almost every other mmo that exists out there. If you want to PvP they you will play the game differently than PvE guy but you can't just say because you are different and you enjoy something else you will have to suffer or change your preferences and start as "average" guy. Game should support both PvE and PvP in its own way and players should be allowed to do what they enjoy and not forced to work to get their entertainment.
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Its not whining, its simple statement that you made this game boring for many people and you did not provide anything how to enjoy that enormous time we have to spend ingame to reach our goals and finally get some fun out of the game. Thats what this is about! >:(
I don't get it - you cannot make PvP below 21 level? Why?
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I don't get it - you cannot make PvP below 21 level? Why?
Because his character build is "accounted" (poor english, sorry) on 21st level. ;p
And he saying something about "leveling isn't the main in mmorpgs", or it's not him?
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1st of all mmo has no ending. Its about endgame activities and leveling up should be just a small part of a fun that awaits at the max lvl. But FOnline is beta and as such it lacks content on both leveling and endgame part of the game. I agree that leveling should be slow and step by step but not when there is nothing to do while you level up. You all think that we are whiners but you see it just from your point of the view and you refuse to imagine yourselves in our position. When I suggest something then I always try to be as much objective as I can but you are not even trying to do that.
Two main sources of exp are absolutely not accessible for PvP chars. You see they can't craft and they can't do quests because somewhere at season 2 when floater/centaur killing was like rocket lvling someone suggested that quest should be CH based so powerbuild would have disadvantage. Back then it was not a real deal since there were like 5 quests and you didn't get much reward from them. But now they matter and we are completely cut from them. Its like we would not allow crafters to use guns until they take weapon handling perk or better criticals. Absolute nonsense that only limit game content for certain group of players. So we are left with hunting NPCs and killing them over and over again until we reach max lvl. Thats long and boring run and I'm asking WHY ON EARTH do we have to spend so much time ingame repeating boring stuff when we could be doing something we enjoy without spending 24/7 ingame just to reach it?
Its beta and there is missing content so why do you make gap between players and content (competitive PvP and TC) bigger with every patch and you don't fill up empty space with anything else we could do while we level up. Thats what changed significantly about FOnline and thats what making current season the most boring season I played. Before you just registered your char, stayed ingame for 1/2 hours a day and you could enjoy gang wars in one week. Now its more like you get ingame, you work for 5 hours just to have enough bullets to level up next 4 levels and then you go hunting some stalkers or something with few people. Its not whining, its simple statement that you made this game boring for many people and you did not provide anything how to enjoy that enormous time we have to spend ingame to reach our goals and finally get some fun out of the game. Thats what this is about! >:(
You're not wrong, although not right. If this CH restriction didn't exist, CH would just have no meaning. Your character is the same thing apparently, CH isn't even an attribute in MMOs, but since this is a Fallout mod then it were already there and mods decided to put it into use, then it MUST have some use. What would be the point of having a completely useless atribute? If they take this restriction off, they should just take the atribute completely, which I disagree.
CH 3 isn't so bad anyway. Yeah, 2 points are important, but they won't be groundbreaking in any build.
@RavenousRat
That be me. I said that leveling plays little part on MMOs.
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I don't get it - you cannot make PvP below 21 level? Why?
Maybe because builds are pretty much useless until certain level is reached? Also you don't stand a chance against higher lvl guys. So only at 21 lvl chances are the same and the real competitive PvP can begin. Sure there are even low level skirmishes but they can never be as fun as real high lvl battle.
You're not wrong, although not right. If this CH restriction didn't exist, CH would just have no meaning. Your character is the same thing apparently, CH isn't even an attribute in MMOs, but since this is a Fallout mod then it were already there and mods decided to put it into use, then it MUST have some use. What would be the point of having a completely useless atribute? If they take this restriction off, they should just take the atribute completely, which I disagree.
CH 3 isn't so bad anyway. Yeah, 2 points are important, but they won't be groundbreaking in any build.
I've always thought its better to gain bonuses for being better than restrict and limit for being worse.
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Maybe because builds are pretty much useless until certain level is reached? Also you don't stand a chance against higher lvl guys. So only at 21 lvl chances are the same and the real competitive PvP can begin. Sure there are even low level skirmishes but they can never be as fun as real high lvl battle.
I've always thought its better to gain bonuses for being better than restrict and limit for being worse.
Those bonuses are impossible.
Not for fallout, on fallout they are good enough, but for a MMO they are impossible. What would you get? More quests? More NPCs? Few care for NPCs anyway. The most thing you could care is some brahmins or so, but you're always better on your own. Discounts don't count.
What I mean is that there are possible bonuses, but they would be little bonuses if compared on what those points could do. Plus, if you're using CH 1, you're COMPLETELY disregarding this atribute, it's just unfair you can do anything that anyone with little charisma can. CH 1 is the extreme.
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Maybe because builds are pretty much useless until certain level is reached? Also you don't stand a chance against higher lvl guys.
I always thought that advantage in battle depends on skill, scouting and knowledge about your enemy, not HP. Oh stupid me.
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I always thought that advantage in battle depends on skill, scouting and knowledge about your enemy, not HP. Oh stupid me.
Still, level do play a big part.
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Those bonuses are impossible.
Not for fallout, on fallout they are good enough, but for a MMO they are impossible. What would you get? More quests? More NPCs? Few care for NPCs anyway. The most thing you could care is some brahmins or so, but you're always better on your own. Discounts don't count.
What I mean is that there are possible bonuses, but they would be little bonuses if compared on what those points could do. Plus, if you're using CH 1, you're COMPLETELY disregarding this atribute, it's just unfair you can do anything that anyone with little charisma can. CH 1 is the extreme.
And what about other attributes? 2 ST is common thing and its is also extreme. Low EN, LK, AG at crafter builds is the same thing. They should shape your character but not limit his access to game content and especially not when it comes to such critical stuff like quests.
I always thought that advantage in battle depends on skill, scouting and knowledge about your enemy, not HP. Oh stupid me.
You can have all the intelligence about enemy you want but this is not Sparta. We don't yell "Hooray!" and run at our enemies hoping that surprise element will do the trick. Its the same lack of content when it comes to PvE or PvP. And right now its pretty much just about your char, tactics and number of players and even 10 hp can help you to stay alive just a little longer to be able to use that superstimp.
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Anyway my initial questions still apply: How do you enjoy playing FOnline? What are you doing ingame? Are you rather PvP or PvE person? Would you like FOnline to change or are you satisfied with current way of development? And the most important how would FOnline look like if you were the boos?
So for me I just love competing with others and I love developing my avatar (which is now pretty too much single player like right now). Since its beta and a lot of stuff is missing or is broken and useless I just collect stuff for my main to prepare him for leveling and finally join some real PvP since from my point of view PvP is only entertaining endgame activity right now. So when it comes to enjoying FOnline then this season is for me pretty boring compared to s1/2 (i did not played during s3). I would love that devs would change their way of seeing FOnline and look at it bit more like its completely new mmo rather than Fallout offspring which has to strictly follow its mechanics/structure.
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Dear Sius,
I'll try to explain you my point of view.
First of all, me and my mates are playing since the beginning of this open beta, in august '09. We used to be some nasty player killers (the Hawks) during the 1st session. For the 2d session, we decided to change our way of playing and we became the Orphans, the guys who led the Den for months. We were traders, moslty, but we tried to defend our town with our allies, the Regulators and the Repo Men. For the 3d session, We realised that BBS were the main threat of the server, so we joined the North Alliance, with Cajuns, Red Dot, VSB... You know the story. So we've been forced to become PvP players. Honestly, it wasn't the best part of my game experience, sometimes fun, sometimes really boring (too long to explain why).
For this session, we want to change again, cause most of us don't want to play like we did during the last session, we all like to do various things (barter, PvE, PvP, Role Playing [yeah, it still exists !!!]...). And we think the new features brought many new possibilities to enjoy the game.
In my opinion, Fallout, the game we all like, is not a shoot game, it's more a Role Playing game in the first place. For now, FOnline is not a MMORPG nor a CSS-like. But the last features tend to create more "interactions" between players (mines, trains,...), and it's what I like in this game. My goal is not to rule the Wasteland, it's just to have fun with my friends.
Guys, this game is in beta version, there will be a lot more contents, a lot of things to do, you just have to be patient... I know it's hard for PvP Players, cause they only have fun in fighting each others, and I will not try to convince them to change, but, come on, this game will never be PvP only, you have to accept the "rules" and deal with PvE/Role Players. I'm pretty sure it's not that complicated.
For the record, I really don't care about the restrictions (cooldowns, Xp...), it's part of game, maybe some of them have to be balanced, but it's ok.
In my opinion, the game needs a sort of "main goal", a reason for the factions to fight each other. Town Control is not enough. But it's an other story...
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Cool story, bro, anyway I don't really know what's your point. Saying " this game is in beta version, there will be a lot more contents, a lot of things to do, you just have to be patient" is ridiculous, since we are not angry because of lack of features, but the constant NERFING (devs call it BALANCING) of everything your worst enemies - PvP players of 2238, those bad guys without brain but with 21 lvl chars - like doing in this game. It seems that you want to erase everything you don't like from the game - like it was with thieves, bombers and others. Due to your constant whining about 12yo old kids with miniguns and rocket launchers, this game is slowly becoming flat, it's becoming some sort of a big mine/factory, nothing else.
So, I don't want you to stop roleplaying, doing PvE (in fact, I want it to be more interesting because I do it from time to time), trading, but you - players who don't like PvP - just can't stop attempts to make PvP less interesting and more frustrating. It's kinda pathetic and I don't know when you are gonna realise it. If you can't/don't like PvPing, you just should try to not do it - it's your choice, after all. Remember that it's not hello-kitty but fallout, full of raiders, killers, thugs and thieves (well, maybe no thieves, due to previous "balancing").
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Exactly
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Just because you can't fight with your 67th alt/ full toughness lifegiver/ drugs and 250 Hps makes pvp less interesting?
I can't really see why honestly.
And now some of you want to remove a part of the SPECIAL... seriously? (and you complain about nerfing then?)
Why are you still playing Fonline and not Bad Company 2 or some other action game. (which is a great game btw)
Does anyone here even care about the Fallout series?
One of the things that I was expecting when I started to play was, if not roleplay, at least teamplay where I could feet in a team with ONE character crafting guns, armor, ammo or drug or fighting or anything...
And like everyone else, I ended up with three lvl 21 chars which i must admit was fun for a moment.
But come on, have you got no more expectations than "let us reach lvl 21 in two days" and fight for no reason until the end of time enjoying 15% of the gamel? (and even less of its potential)
Do you remember the last session ended with NO ONE in Northern cities and less than 150 players?
I know you can't change people's minds when those people play 10 hours a day and want to have their name written and remembered but still I dont get it.
I dont like mmos for all these mechanical things they imply but i spent a shitload of hours on Fonline already.
Why?
Because I still hope it won't turn into/be reduced to the regular mmo.
Which means childish, assisted, flat and 0 risk AND retarded power leveling, pure mathematics and counting to the skillpoint when creating a character.
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Imho FOnline should have both PvP and PvE as strong aspects of the game and not to choose between them. Currently from my point of view when I reach lvl 12 with my crafter I'm able to get level 3 of profession I've chosen. I can craft pretty much everything I want. But what then? Should I trade and chat with others at NCR or go "scavengering" into caves? There is no real goal for me. My actions will not change anything by doing this. I will only get richer and richer every day and thats it. But in current PvP I see an opportunity how to enjoy the game, because situation is always changing. Even if you encounter the same group of 5 assholes with miniguns and rocket launchers 3 days in a row the fight will be always totally different forcing you to think fast and make a good choices or you will fail and loose your precious items and time. But now all this comes after long and boring leveling up that is flat as chest of some worlds top models. Game should be developed so everyone no matter if its quake or sims guy will enjoy it and will not be forced to play the way he don't like and with restrictions.
And when we look back how CH restriction began, then it was "thanks to voice of no-PvP guys". Back then someone suggested powerbuilders should be nerfed and so they implemented CH requirement for traders/quests. As I said back then it was no big deal so no one cared about it. But now and for future sake of FOnline please rework CH impact on the game because current state is ridiculous.
I mean whats the point of this restriction? Not allow PvPers to lvl and to barter because they are "ugly"? CH has nothing to do with ones appearance and its meant to be something like "inner spark". But lets compare the most charismatic ghoul or supermutant with uncharismatic man. Most of the people out there would rather trade/talk with a man but if there will be something like race choice in the future then all ghouls/mutants will have quests/traders restricted (apart of their own kind) from the beginning or what? Its simply leftover from old season that has 0 effect back then but now it has only negative effect on PvP players and forces them into creating another alt.
Lets summarize its:
minimum ST - low carry weight, hand to hand combat like a 12yo girl, bad aiming since you can't hold your weapon properly (can be fixed by perk and boosted by the heavy drugs)
minimum PE - almost blind person, you can use long range weapons only to smash opponents head if they come too close to you, you should not try to build homemade explosives (can be boosted by the light drugs also as by the heavy drugs)
minimum EN - you char will not live long enough to see another day
minimum CH - you can't trade, you can't do any quests, you are considered ugly and NPC interaction equals to chat with the wall (can be boosted by the heavy drugs)
minimum IN - your science skills are below freezing point of watter, you get almost no skill point (can be boosted through heavy drugs)
minimum AG - you move like after hangover, you have very low action points, your AC is minimal (can be boosted through light and heavy drugs)
minimum LK - small crit chance and other luck based elements, you are not able to pick some survival/dmg boosting perks
Which of these are important for crafter/average guy and which he can simply ignore? Crafters or average guys have mostly only 1 tops 2 of SPECIAL that they have to keep an eye on since they can't specialize on everything. Rest can be average or even below it. Mostly its combination of IN and ST that plays the main role for crafters but it depends on what they want to specialize.
But now take PvP char. ST is in many cases set just to minimum + weapon handling perk but its critical to meet weapons requirement. Character without average or better PE has nothing to do in PvP since hand to hand has 0 use here. EN simply has to be above average even for snipers or experimental builds since sneaking has still not much of an use. CH is ignored in order to meet other requirements. IN drops below average only at tanker/big gunner builds. AG - plays important role, almost always has to be above average. Minimum LK for PvP char is simply 6 because of perks and criticals. Only experimental builds go with average LK.
So when you take it from this point of view crafter or average guys really don't have to watch every point in SPECIAL since they can use drugs from time to time if they want their profession to get on higher level etc. But for PvP char everything apart from CH couts an has it own impact on the character and its combat abilities. Even 2 point difference in overall build play a role when it comes to survival/dmg dealing. But if there is minimum CH set to 3 for everyone, then its ok, otherwise you will have to satisfy with that you will always come as 2nd (and thats now what we are looking when we PvP, we want to compeete not to get our asses kicked because we have chosen we want to play with game content). CH is only stat that PvP char does not need and he is punished so hard? And you call this balance?
Imho CH should have greater impact on barter skill but not limit it at all. So if you have 1 CH you will sell items for like very low % but you will be able to sell them everywhere like regular people. Show me barter who will refuse to get rich just because he don't like you. And as for the quests than it should not be limited at all either. Rather make quests finishable through an easy way if you have better CH than limit them absolutely if you don't have any. Same applies here. Show me a person who will refuse your help because you lack your "inner spark". Of course when it comes to quests like seduce someone or talk people out of something then CH 1 char will have really hard times or won't be able to finish that quest at all but in general most of the quest should be accessible.
So limiting game content and esspecially something that important as quests by special is something that has nothing to do in mmo.
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It's your problem and choice that you are mini-maxing to make powerbuild. You can PvP with 3 CH character as well. Don't tell me you can't because I know it's possible. If you are fixed so much with the idea of maximizing your chances even by some ridiculously small fraction, if you don't accept any compromises, then well... suffer. Pure crafters have disadvantages as well, if they will meet your monster builds they are dead, if they meet ghoul crazies, they are dead, etc. Every PvP player is in the same situation, so it's not like there is something unfair.
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3 CH chars are lame in PvP, despite all your huge experience. 1 CH chars will be created as long as there is possibility to lower charisma below 3. Devs can't realise that no matter how much they will nerf so-called "fast-exping", there will be new ways to do it, discovered by the players who need it. If you really want to stop "21lvl big gunners from pwning you", then you need to completely disable gaining experience. Even with 1 CH, you can complete many quests, you just need to take mentats.
Nerf Mentats then!
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Cool story, bro, anyway I don't really know what's your point. Saying " this game is in beta version, there will be a lot more contents, a lot of things to do, you just have to be patient" is ridiculous, since we are not angry because of lack of features, but the constant NERFING (devs call it BALANCING) of everything your worst enemies - PvP players of 2238, those bad guys without brain but with 21 lvl chars - like doing in this game.....
Man, most of PvP players say they don't enjoy XPing/crafting... because there's nothing to do in the game, that's why I said there will be more content in the future.
Concerning the nerfing, well, it's the same for all of us, so you're not penalized. And you know the devs are in the balancing phase, so...
Yeah, it's hard to make many 21st level optimized figting chars, but it's also hard to survive in the Northern towns for an average char... It's a matter choice.
And for the record, I'm not against PvP, PvP players, or raiders, it's part of the game, and I like to do some fair PvP from time to time. I just find this opposition between PvP players and PvE/Role Players/crafters really stupid, same with the "North is for PvP, South for others" thing. In my opinion, Fallout is a game where you are free to make your own choice, but you also have to own up to your behevavior, every action has a consequence.
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If you want to make a CH3 (or CH1, hurr durr) character, it's your choice. I don't see where the problem is.
Also 90% of all my quests can be taken and solved with a CH1 build. I've never includet any killswitch, to shoot that down. Not even low intelligence would hinder you, nor any other x1 stat.
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It's your problem and choice that you are mini-maxing to make powerbuild. You can PvP with 3 CH character as well. Don't tell me you can't because I know it's possible. If you are fixed so much with the idea of maximizing your chances even by some ridiculously small fraction, if you don't accept any compromises, then well... suffer. Pure crafters have disadvantages as well, if they will meet your monster builds they are dead, if they meet ghoul crazies, they are dead, etc. Every PvP player is in the same situation, so it's not like there is something unfair.
There is a difference between character possibilities and limiting game content. PvP char is as dead as crafter when it comes to deadly encounters (until that char is like 15+ lvl and at that point even crafter can survive and run away. PvP guy will just don't have to run. Thats the difference you don't see. You ignore that so called powerbuilding is natural thing that happens everywhere players can compete. So in order to get better you will have to build better and sacrifice needles points in order to reach more resistant/deadlier char. If you don't and you choose to actually play and do quests you might enjoy leveling up a bit more but eventually you will find out that people who have taken the hard way without charisma will kill you more easily. And again I will point out those SPECIAL priorities. PvP build have to carefully spend every point and only 2 stats he can really ignore are ST (thanks to weapon handling) and CH. Crafter can ignore pretty much anything apart from IN + his profession main attribute. Rest he chooses as he wants. So rolling a PvP char is not only harder without npc interaction ad possibility to do quests but it also does not provide that much "free choice" when it comes to SPECIAL stats. And you want to even already very limited chars limit even more?
What is the possible bad outcome of allowing PvP chars to quest and trade? People playing them might have fun leveling them up. Oh shit that must not happen!
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Jovanka you want every char as you have ? Every char will be same, with 3 CHA. But its not will be PvP character if you dont know. It will be craft/battle character. Why we have disadvantages when he want have PvP character ? Yes if you want have every char with charisma just disable battle perks, battle stats and etc. Do it.
Jovanka and please dont talk about PvP or PvP characters. Yes you are GM but you know nothing. You was doctor, you are doctor, you will be doctor.
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I agree on some thing which Sius pointer:
- more PvE (and special PvE encounters like fight with Deathclaw Mother, when you will require whole team to compete with this monster)
- more quests (and chain quest and quest where you need whole group: a gunner, mechanic, scientist etc.)
- more things to do for characters (achievments? trophies?)
But of course I know this game is in beta stage, so I just need to wait.
I disagree for removal of CH1 ban for quests. I simply don't want to CHA be a dump stat and I don't agree with your arguments - it's simply as that.
Another thing is crafting&gathering -> I think that system goes into right direction - crafting is more dynamic and not boring (remember what was before wipe? "click to dig, watch YT for 5 minutes, repeat". And whine about crafting being too long it's ridicoulus for me. If you craft XXX ammo for day, and you use it just for one big fight... It's not our or devs problem. Make smaller battles and if you run out of ammo during battle then you lose - your opponent is better prepared.
About my enjoyment: I enjoy FOnline and I'm waiting for more bug fixes, lag fixes and more content. I'm mostly PvE player, but I'm looking forward to making some PvP chars.
About my vision of game? More hardcore: less ammo, less guns, less resources. Equipment should be hard to obtain, ammo craften in low quantity (like 5 9mm bullets, not 50) so people should use it only in really tough fights. More unarmed & melee, stuff limited to medium range: the best gun should be assault rifle and best armor is metal armor. Of course game should have plenty of others items (crappy armors maded from junk, jackets reinforcer with metal plates, one-shot guns etc.). And limited HP level so everyone could get killed with one lucky shot or stab.
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Ok, Halolasima, let's try something a bit more simple :
PvP character only:
+ you have more chance to win during a real fight, most of the time you can easily kill an average character, you can take the more intesresting battle perks.
- it's hard to XPing to the 21st level, you can't do all the quests, you can't craft, you can't trade.
Average/crafter... character :
+ you can do most of the quests, it's a little bit easier to get XP, you can trade, you can craft.
- you're not the best fighter, you can't take the more interesting battle perks, you can hardly win against a PvP player.
That's what I call balancing !!! ;D
Seriously, like I said, it's a matter of choice, you have advantages and disavantages in both cases.
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Jovanka you want every char as you have ? Every char will be same, with 3 CHA. (...) you know nothing. You was doctor, you are doctor, you will be doctor.
I'm sorry but you are the one who knows nothing who I was or am. I had many characters. Practically everything from 1 CH to 9 CH. Also builds which did fine in PvP. No, I didn't have mathematically best possible chance to kill, but I was able to snipe a few hardcore PvP players. Just because you don't know the names doesn't mean I didn't try it. I have no problems with diversity, it seems like you are the one who want to have every char the same, with 1 CH. Not me.
Also I don't really like splitting the players into PvP and PvE like it was 2 different worlds. PvP doesn't have to be only quake-like fights of a few xp-farming, powerbuild-centred factions.
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I'm sorry but you are the one who knows nothing who I was or am. I had many characters. Practically everything from 1 CH to 9 CH. Also builds which did fine in PvP.
Shut up! You are GM, you never played the game!
Huh. :>
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I laughed so much at Jovanka's post. I LOVE her stories about her brave alts (you mean that one with 40 hp? Or you had dozens of alts? I recognise one doc char, one thief, one small gun sniper - still it was 2 wipes ago, so wtf? Oh and also you mentioned sth about your mighty throwing char) killing hardcore PvP players. Sounds good!
Now let her decide how PvP should look:
PvP doesn't have to be only quake-like fights of a few xp-farming, powerbuild-centred factions
??? ??? ???
It will be always like, that, because:
1. You are too slow for RT so you call it quake.
2. As I stated before, players will always find a way to exp their PvP builds quickly.
3. This game was supposed to focus on factions.
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the reason they call it quake is - mindless killing without thinking - basicly yo try to take down as many as you can before you die yourself . then you res no penalty and run back to the fight...
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Negative, sir. That's how YOU would play PvP, Mr. Mindless. And maybe that's the reason why you fail at it and call it "quake". Simply, you don't understand it. In fact, avoiding getting killed while killing others effectively requires more than sitting in your cave and crafting. I'm so sorry, sir. Maybe just try harder?
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Negative, sir. That's how YOU would play PvP, Mr. Mindless. And maybe that's the reason why you fail at it and call it "quake". Simply, you don't understand it. In fact, avoiding getting killed while killing others effectively requires more than sitting in your cave and crafting. I'm so sorry, sir. Maybe just try harder?
vouch, Attero you evidently know nothin about pvp, I recommand you stay out of this theme :P
I will read thru this whole topic and properly react as soon as I ve got some more time.
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Negative, sir. That's how YOU would play PvP, Mr. Mindless. And maybe that's the reason why you fail at it and call it "quake". Simply, you don't understand it. In fact, avoiding getting killed while killing others effectively requires more than sitting in your cave and crafting. I'm so sorry, sir. Maybe just try harder?
i think you never played real mmo and dont know what thinking is ^^ (in pvp sense)
@Josefista - sup ? didnt i sum up the main idea of quake well ? i dont recall saying that Fonline is quake (actually i belive quake takes much more skill overally then Fonline )
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i think you never played real mmo and dont know what thinking is ^^ (in pvp sense)
Sorry, but Kilgore is right. Just go to a town and watch some of those battles, its not just all about senseless killing as you described it.
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Sorry, but Kilgore is right. Just go to a town and watch some of those battles, its not just all about senseless killing as you described it.
again i dont recall saying that Fonline is quake.
particulary i replied to this quote in killgores post
PvP doesn't have to be only quake-like fights of a few xp-farming, powerbuild-centred factions
and again if you think that Fonline takes skill , you have rly low sesne of what skill can be ( again it takes some skill just rly low amount when compared to "tournament" games)
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and again if you think that Fonline takes skill , you have rly low sesne of what skill can be ( again it takes some skill just rly low amount when compared to "tournament" games)
yea, thats right, but still many personal/team tactics can be seen in FOnline pvp and its not mindless
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Lol, this is nice-BBS and VSB experienced players together vs NCR nooby guy.
In left corner-experienced PvP fighters.
In right corner NCR nooby guys.
Attero you are pissing me of! You don't know ANYTHING about PvP. It's not only click, click, click-nice, we were clicking faster we are winners!!!
It's about good PvP builds, tactics, skill, knowledge of enemy and terrain...
So please shut the f*ck up you know NOTHING about PvP! It's too much fast and furious for rat killer like you, so please leave this post for experienced players. Thank you.
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Lol, this is nice-BBS and VSB experienced players together vs NCR nooby guy.
In left corner-experienced PvP fighters.
In right corner NCR nooby guys.
Attero you are pissing me of! You don't know ANYTHING about PvP. It's not only click, click, click-nice, we were clicking faster we are winners!!!
It's about good PvP builds, tactics, skill, knowledge of enemy and terrain...
So please shut the f*ck up you know NOTHING about PvP! It's too much fast and furious for rat killer like you, so please leave this post for experienced players. Thank you.
bird borned in cage knows nothing of freedom
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im not playing anymore. fuck this.
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bird borned in cage knows nothing of freedom
No man, really, youre arguing about PvP against guys who have spent like 80% of their whole time in PVP. And the rest 20% of playtime is ihmo even more you've ever spent on this game. Its just really ridiculous.
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Too many pros stay in NCR in this game, I mean I don't get it if you are so pro why stay in NCR? :-[
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(http://www.motivationalz.com/pictures/internet_tough_guys.jpg)
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No man, really, youre arguing about PvP against guys who have spent like 80% of their whole time in PVP. And the rest 20% of playtime is ihmo even more you've ever spent on this game. Its just really ridiculous.
you quote me yet you dont understand. You know nothing of me yet you make assumptions about my play time, that only shows how desperate you are to prove your point of view.
amusing you are young padawan
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you quote me yet you dont understand. You know nothing of me yet you make assumptions about my play time, that only shows how desperate you are to prove your point of view.
amusing you are young padawan
Why is that people who PvP actively have a radically different experience than you (I mean you PvP a lot too, and have multiple BG and FA/Doc builds, this is why I am asking)? ???
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Why is that people who PvP actively have a radically different experience than you (I mean you PvP a lot too, and have multiple BG and FA/Doc builds, this is why I am asking)? ???
I dont think i have different , actually i dont know wtf they want they keep whining on some changes instead of adepting. Now its some kind of argument about how much skill it takes to PvP in Fonline..... lol... i dont rly wanna compare PvP in Fonline to other games coz it makes no sense , Fallout is very old and very limited and we love it coz of the world not PvP , if it woulld come only for PvP they are far better games out there (probably not free).
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I dont think i have different , actually i dont know wtf they want they keep whining on some changes instead of adepting. Now its some kind of argument about how much skill it takes to PvP in Fonline..... lol... i dont rly wanna compare PvP in Fonline to other games coz it makes no sense , Fallout is very old and very limited and we love it coz of the world not PvP , if it woulld come only for PvP they are far better games out there (probably not free).
Who do you mean when you say "we"?
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Who do you mean when you say "we"?
all Fonline players ? if like you love fantasy setting WTF would you be doing in SF setting ?
Also there are games with much much better PvP systems - even with full loot .... im just not sure if there are such games fee free - is that the issue here ? you play fonline coz its free ? Q_Q
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JovankaB, don't you understand ? OMFG putting CH3 in Charisma is stupid ! We lose two points with it ! And if we do, everyone will have CH3 ! We'll all be the same ! And we'll suck in fights ! Plus, there are two kinds of people in this game : The pro, skilled, awesome, big PVP players, and the NCR so-called "noobs". Yay.
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Your a gm so why the hell are you throwing fuel on the fire?
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What, man ? I'm only quoting the people that spoke before me in wise, really smart posts !
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Your a gm so why the hell are you throwing fuel on the fire?
its called burnout method
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So rather than coming up with your own stupid useless crap to say you quote someone elses?My point is your supposed to be a gm not some immature wise ass.You see a thread turning to a flame war and you add to it instead of moderating.
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There are 170 replies in this topic but only like 5 or 6 that actually answers my questions from 1st post. Imho FOnline is now boring because of slower leveling that was never an issue before and now it stands between me and me having fun. Thats why I've started this topic to find out what are you people doing online and how do you spend/enjoy your time with FOnline. I'm just curious if its really my fault that I don't find this season entertaining or if there are people like me who simply don't have anything to do ingame apart from time consuming leveling up, dreaming about 21st lvl and hoping for better tomorrow.
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you are absolutely right
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There are 170 replies in this topic but only like 5 or 6 that actually answers my questions from 1st post. Imho FOnline is now boring because of slower leveling that was never an issue before and now it stands between me and me having fun. Thats why I've started this topic to find out what are you people doing online and how do you spend/enjoy your time with FOnline. I'm just curious if its really my fault that I don't find this season entertaining or if there are people like me who simply don't have anything to do ingame apart from time consuming leveling up, dreaming about 21st lvl and hoping for better tomorrow.
So...
Your aim at this game:
Get 21st level and infinite stuff and then go PvP, PvP, PvP, PvP and PvP. And also sometimes PvP, but after you got some PvP?
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i rly wonder how were the leveling made slower ?
crafting nerf?
FA nerf?
XP per kill seem to be same...
and also they added new quests (no idea how good exp they give)
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So...
Your aim at this game:
Get 21st level and infinite stuff and then go PvP, PvP, PvP, PvP and PvP. And also sometimes PvP, but after you got some PvP?
As I've said many times before. For me PvP is the only real endgame feature that FOnline: 2238 has these days. Why? Because when I take a look at alternatives they are not getting even close to 1/5 of fun that I can have doing PvP.
Lets say I have like X chars all with 21 lvl and all build for different reason. So chars could be like: SG sniper, Armorer, Medic, BG tank, Demolition expert, Thief, Scavenger (average "a bit from everything" build).
With craft based chars like armorer or demolition expert I can farm and craft infinite number of items, get myself rich and chat with friends. But those are pretty much passive, no goal what so ever activities and thats why I don't find them entertaining.
Now lets take a look at medic and thief. Medic could be pretty interesting since mats for drugs are cheap and easy to obtain and new fa/doc systems can be full of bugs that are waiting to be discovered. Anyway such char is meant more or less as supporting build leaving his hunting/killing abilities at medicore level so pretty much ideal for cave scavengering but nothing more. When it comes to PvP doc has no real use in combat now. Same goes for scavenger build. Its medicore killer with more possibilities how to interact (doing quests, trade, craft a bit) but in the end there are not so many quests to keep it interesting after 21st lvl and I don't want to end up looting caves all day long.
As a thief you are absolutely doomed right now because of many bugs or missing features. Main killer of this char is current reputation system that makes him completely useless after 1st or 2nd theft in certain areas (16 lvl thief here).
And we are left with pure PvP chars. They are pain in the ass to level up but when they reach that 21 they present ideal way of spending time for me. When you PvP then its never the same. People evolve and their tactics/characters/items with them. You can always try something new and you can risk or play the safe tactics, you can combine and find your way how to eliminate your opponents. When you do you are rewarded with good feeling that your way of justice has been done tonight in a wasteland and that precious town now comes under your gang name. Also creating alternative and experimental PvP builds was one of the most exiting things I did during season 1 and 2. Simply PvP is the only real endgame activity for me where I can compete with others and make the difference. No other action ingame is now like this and thats why I prefer killing "bad" people over so called hardcore rpg. When the devs introduce something like endgame PvE then I will most likely end with that rather than keeping an eye on every north town if those bastard PKs show again. But we will have to wait for that. Until then PvP is my choice.
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Cool story, bro, anyway I don't really know what's your point. Saying " this game is in beta version, there will be a lot more contents, a lot of things to do, you just have to be patient" is ridiculous, since we are not angry because of lack of features, but the constant NERFING (devs call it BALANCING) of everything your worst enemies - PvP players of 2238, those bad guys without brain but with 21 lvl chars - like doing in this game. It seems that you want to erase everything you don't like from the game - like it was with thieves, bombers and others. Due to your constant whining about 12yo old kids with miniguns and rocket launchers, this game is slowly becoming flat, it's becoming some sort of a big mine/factory, nothing else.
So, I don't want you to stop roleplaying, doing PvE (in fact, I want it to be more interesting because I do it from time to time), trading, but you - players who don't like PvP - just can't stop attempts to make PvP less interesting and more frustrating. It's kinda pathetic and I don't know when you are gonna realise it. If you can't/don't like PvPing, you just should try to not do it - it's your choice, after all. Remember that it's not hello-kitty but fallout, full of raiders, killers, thugs and thieves (well, maybe no thieves, due to previous "balancing").
Oh, some butthurt hardcore PvPer?
Guess what, those nerfs where shiny. I enjoy the game much more now.
Bombers were retarded and would ruin the game for 80% of the bluesuiters (more like 100%), and thieves... Well, if they get caught, they NEED to be shot, don't they? That's what guards are for.
And yes, it IS just fair to letting anyone kill anything, since the world is like this, but without even get punishment? This is complete nonsense. Even on the trashiest game on earth, when you kill someone, you get PK state or something, but here you don't even get a bad rep for it. The world IS a post-apocalyptic wasteland, but it doesn't mean it's a jungle where anyone is killing everyone. We're still humans at all, and this can be proved by Vault City and guarded cities, and even by factions or gangs.
And yes, this whole CH thing is senseless. If you have 3 CH, you aren't considered PvP build anymore, because the game is devided inbetween HARDCORE PvP (casual PvP doesn't exist) and HARDCORE CRAFTER/PvE CRAFTER (because he wouldn't be able to do PvP AT ALL).
Now, am I the only one who is seeing something wrong here? I mean, you choose into doing quests/trading/having companions, or you choose between PvP? Why can't you do BOTH? Even if not excel at both, what most people here are saying is that you CAN'T PVP AT ALL IF YOU DON'T PUT CH TO 1. That is PLAIN RETARDED if you ask me. Sacrificing one valid aspect of the game to do PvP should be out of the question, you MUST do both, they're forcing you to create alts.
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Oh, some butthurt hardcore PvPer?
Nope, buddy. It will just take me more time to lvl up my chars and then your characters will die the same way they were dying before, well maybe easier, since it will take more time for you to exp your chars too!
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Good. Just nevermind it then. Just keep playing.
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The point is - this game is pointless, its not means that this game is bad. After about 1-2 weeks after wipe, there is nothing to do beside PvP... Its one big loop, get top items->loose/loot top items->get top items->(...). So what else you can do in this game? Do RP - sure, but im afraid that you cant do it all the time and even if you start role playing there is a crowd of fuckers who will spoil your fun. So what else? You can craft and trade items, earn some big money - but where you will spend all your money? There is nothing to buy beside base (500kk)...
This game is about PVP and domination and some RP with GMs. The best moment in the game is early start after wipe, no one have top items and power builds, pvp is nice and pleasant... "If you have 3 CH, you aren't considered PvP build anymore" the correct formula is "If you have 3 CH, you aren't considered as Power PvP build anymore" and the true is (Power Build > CH Build) If there is possibility to make uber power pro PvP build - most of people will make such builds
Another problem is alt'ing, my name is ISn2 and I use alts! Well, I dont like alternative characters, they complicate the game. Yupp! I have few miners and crafters and 2 power builds bla bla bla, its damn sic. Why we are using alt's? - the answer is - because we want to be the best! - why we want to be the best? - the answer is - because all is about PvP and domination || because system allows it (system =/= GMs)
How to solve alt's problem? If developers dont want to change the game in way that is user friendly, we need to take drastic measures against alt'ing:
- account activation after you submit proof of identity (its drastic and can be bypassed)
- one account allows you to create multiple characters and relog cooldown signed to account not to character
- restricted IP filtration (include - proxy filter, PC name, etc)
And finally - Dev's, the last update was awsome, GJ! Propably only lag spoiled me fun after latest wipe :)
ps. sorry for my poor english >.<
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It's pretty much a pvp only game, any mmo's that doesn't have pve instances can't really be anything else. Usually mmos have a long grind to max level to teach players how the game works in time consuming baby steps because A)It's profitable and B) Players are usually slow to grasp basic game mechanics. Take wow for example, pretty much the most simplistic combat system you could have yet tons of people suck at it. You make a build, hit auto attack and spam the same buttons in sequence for pretty much every fight. Since the only questing is low level and high level equipment can be equipped by lvl 1 chars there really isn't much to do other than pvp, and pvp is only really fair at max level.
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@ISn2 totaly agree :
wanna reming that it must be this way, Fallout doesnt have engine to allow progresive gear - there are virtaully jsut two pices of equipment - armor and gun ...
IF we would want progresive gear ...well basicly whole SPECIAL would need to be trashed and use some syster similar to other MMOs where gear can progress - i dont think we could call the result a fallout
as to prevent Alting i think there are two ways ... one is carrot the other is whip..
Carrot is to allow respecs - some CD and cost assosiated but now at top of cloning you can request a creation of geneticly modified clone and then have your memory moved to it....
the whip would be to add account activation system , possibly small pay when making it. Account assosiated to IP or to IP range - for accounts made from same IP group a check similar to current anti- dual log check to be done (request for the players to log simulteniously)
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It's pretty much a pvp only game, any mmo's that doesn't have pve instances can't really be anything else.
FOnline: 2238 is using instanced maps / zones as well.
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FOnline: 2238 is using instanced maps / zones as well.
I wouldn't say you're really using them. There aren't any dungeons or group pve areas, even if there were the only benefits are xp and gear which are both found everywhere. There's no incentive to do anything but pvp in groups.
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Off topic : Jovanka is GM so she MUST be more smart than others players right ? I really want know names of your PvP alts.
I understand that people who have enough time to spend in NCR or base and they have nothing to do all day, like 2238 Fonline as we have now.
BUT everyone dont have too enough time like them. We just want FUN from this game. Fun for our HARD job. Rewards !!!
Now we dont have nothing what we want. Only "NCR" players have what they want.
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i like hard games... i enjoy it...player must in first place make some stuffs (easy=with pks i glad) with HARD i mean ... light death...all stuffs drop( this i like a lot )....and.....hm...simply great
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I understand that people who have enough time to spend in NCR or base and they have nothing to do all day, like 2238 Fonline as we have now.
BUT everyone dont have too enough time like them. We just want FUN from this game. Fun for our HARD job. Rewards !!!
Now we dont have nothing what we want. Only "NCR" players have what they want.
You are boring with this strange "NCR-player" obsession. Some of these guys made you hurt or cry or what?
Keep repeating "we want PvP & fun and these NCR assholes just stay in NCR because they are staying in NCR and being assholes", I guess you haven't been heard on Mars yet. Geez man, I'm beginning to understand why is all this whine about, why PvP-chars are useless below 21-lvl, but in this thread there is no page without your brilliant sentence about "fun-PvP" and "stay-at-NCR" comparison. Focus or stop, please.
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Restricting IP and reviewing logs from time to time (to see frequent trades between two characters without chatting, or something like that) would be the only solution, but it would bring some problems, since sometimes you're just testing characters, not doing alts at all, and IP can be bypassed through proxy. Also, identity is impossible, because there ae worldwide people here.
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(to see frequent trades between two characters without chatting, or something like that)
What if two different players chatting about trade via IRC or Teamspeak, for example?
If alt-forbidding be so simple, it would be done long time ago. But I know even less about alts than PvP, so I better keep shut in that matter :>
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What if two different players chatting about trade via IRC or Teamspeak, for example?
If alt-forbidding be so simple, it would be done long time ago. But I know even less about alts than PvP, so I better keep shut in that matter :>
Not at all. I don't think devs have anything against alts, so they just don't care. There are some systems so you cannot create more than 1 character (using folder files or windows registry, still bypassable, but hardly more than 10% of the players would bypass it), but as I said, they don't care if you have 10 or more alts.
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Even if they dont care about alts, they should care about fast relogs...
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You are boring with this strange "NCR-player" obsession. Some of these guys made you hurt or cry or what?
Keep repeating "we want PvP & fun and these NCR assholes just stay in NCR because they are staying in NCR and being assholes", I guess you haven't been heard on Mars yet. Geez man, I'm beginning to understand why is all this whine about, why PvP-chars are useless below 21-lvl, but in this thread there is no page without your brilliant sentence about "fun-PvP" and "stay-at-NCR" comparison. Focus or stop, please.
This kind of players have really many many time to spend somewehere to craft and mining. They dont like fight with each others, i dont know why. They like only mining in mine, craft, kill rats and brahmins and thats all. Yes i understand, now they must love this game.
But everyone not same, i dont have too many time like them to play ? Why i must be in disvantage beacuse i dont have time like them ? Tell me where is my fun or reward from my two days crafting ? Lost items in encouter when i EXPing beacuse i cant heal myself ? I understand that you must relly enjoy game as we have right now.
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So the only reason you "can't have fun from pvp" anymore is the FA change, maybe the crafting time/ outcome for rockets? Are you serious? People remove ways of cheating xp fast and you comlain?
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Maybe he would like if there were an area like a permanent GM event where nothing can be removed.
Then people could endlessly PvP/etc. with whatever gear they want, maybe even have "easter eggs" that give XP when used.
That way all builds and item combos can be experimented with.
It all stays in PvP Arena area.
As long as it is insulated from the rest of the game, why not?
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Sounds like a good idea.
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So the only reason you "can't have fun from pvp" anymore is the FA change, maybe the crafting time/ outcome for rockets? Are you serious? People remove ways of cheating xp fast and you comlain?
You did not get him. Even tho I think that Holo is a bit too angry he has the point. Game is now PvE centered and people who enjoy crafting and hardcore rpg have best season ever. But on the other hand there are people who like PvP and a bit of action more over farming endless stocks of mats and getting rich. And these people suffer from recent changes. Healing is the last thing in a row. Main problem is that PvP players have to kill enormous time ingame in order to get to a point when they can finally have some fun out of it. And thats what we brainless PvPers are complaining about all the time.
Crafters don't mind faster/slower leveling. In fact if I was one right now I would pretty much welcome slower exp since I would be doing what I enjoy longer before I master it. But thats not my case. So now its like having 3 types of players. PvE guys who don't care that much about slow exping since they are not affected by it and they have fun ingame. PvP maniacs who will play no matter what which are at high levels and taking towns already. And "casual" PvPers who don't have that much time to spend ingame to get at least some reward for their work. Now if you don't focus on exping really hard then you can't PvP in reasonable time horizon. If you are one of those who have like 1 tops 2 hours a day for FOnline and you enjoy PvP then you will be able to have some fun ingame like in month or so. Until then its repetition repetition repetition repetition repetition repetition repetition... Thats what are we crying about.
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You PK you should suffer
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If you are one of those who have like 1 tops 2 hours a day for FOnline and you enjoy PvP then you will be able to have some fun ingame like in month or so. Until then its repetition repetition repetition repetition repetition repetition repetition... Thats what are we crying about.
As I understand the problem is not PvPing on levels < 21, but that PvPs have no way to level up excep PvE, craft or farming with bots so you are forced to do things you don't like to level up. Maybe there should be a way to gain XP for PvP, not by killing every player because it would be to easy to exploit, but maybe for example by giving small amount of XP to all gang members for holding town (every hour or something like that). The problem is it's hard to find some non-exploitable way to gather XP in PvP. BG powerbuilds shouldn't get XP for killing random bluesuits shoveling shit.
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7. XP for TC?
- Not necessary + seems exploitable.
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Hmmm, how XP for holding town is exploitable (if it's given for every hour of keeping control for example)? It's not like farming in base, any gang can come and take the town back. The only problem I see is that it would make the most powerful gangs even more powerful.
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I foresee adding people to gangs just for XP for holding town
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Well, this system is bit harder to give xp for keeping control because of the mechanics. I suppose one thing could be getting xp for killing Militia ???
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Well TC is still rather high lvl feature and the main problem is to get from 1 to 15 lvl. At that point chars are getting useful more or less (depend on the build) so they can take part in bigger actions or lvl on their own by regular means.
The reason why something like low lvl PvP does not exist is that low lvl PvP chars or pretty much any low lvl char is not killing machine. In fact they are dieing machines. Also level difference between players makes everything even more messy than it already is and when you PvP at mid level then you can always expect that higher or max lvl player will come around and you are pretty much screwed. But thats also shame because something like low PvP would be certainly fun with worse gear etc. But I can't imagine how to implement such thing when we can't see our opponents level. Anyway things like PvP grounds (check my signature) could represent some kind of an exp gain for PvP chars. You join few fights in such PvP arena and reward would depend on your level scale. Lets say that players from 6 to 11 lvl would be able to join only something like "training ground" with no real reward from winning but some nice exp. From 12 to 17 lvl they would be able to connect to certain PvP arenas. At these mid levels they could be rewarded only with caps and/or exp (maybe possibility to choose between these or combine them). At higher levels 18-21 they would get also items as reward or maybe something like title to their name (when it comes down to tournaments then maybe cars as reward etc). Anyway PvP statistics should be implemented to "Kills" tab in pipboy. Number of killed players, deaths (not from environment), "honorable" kills (kills of players at your or higher lvl) etc. So when number of you "kills" exceeds number of "honorable kills" like 8 times you will get something like "Chicken" or "Psychopath" as prefix to your name (or just like player flag meaning we get reward for killing such guy or something). Such features could make competing in PvP even more interesting.
Anyway leveling up PvP char in regular world using some "natural" means is tricky. Even when you find something that could work like source of exp its always hard to balance it and there is always abuse issue. But PvP/training grounds that stand apart from regular world could be easier to balance and abuse issues would be also not such threat there. Anyway if devs would just consider something like alternative means of exping for PvP chars or such training/PvP grounds then it will be more than appreciated.
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Hmmm, how XP for holding town is exploitable (if it's given for every hour of keeping control for example)?
You said that all gang members would gain exp for TC. So now:
1. if it's big, it would lvl up all alts, which you don't like so much,
2. if it's small, it doesn't matter, so it's pointless,
But yeah, gaining exp for killing militia seems a better idea, since players have to pay for them. Still, you need to consider the possibility of killing your own militia for exp and then buying more of them as some kind of an exploit
The idea of creating "PvP training grounds" in order to gain experience by killing others is even worse. Imagine 5 people joining the fight and dying to their buddy to let him exp quickly.
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The idea of creating "PvP training grounds" in order to gain experience by killing others is even worse. Imagine 5 people joining the fight and dying to their buddy to let him exp quickly.
Well the main strength of PvP training grounds is that they should stand apart from world and they could follow their own rules that are not possible to apply in rest of the wasteland (not loosing stuff with respawn, faster respawns etc). Maybe it should not be only pure PvP but mix of PvP and fight based PvE where you as group of players that joined the fight have to complete objectives such as infiltrating/defense of some fortress and AI would be your opponent (or combination of players and NPCs on both sides). That would leave real PvP battles only for higher lvl players. Anyway main problem with these is how to implement something like this with current game mechanics that are really nightmare to work with (insane balancing, a lot of abuse issues have to be taken in consideration etc...).
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Why to come up with such complicated ideas when all you need is to bring back reasonable experience for killing critters. As I remember, it took more than 15k 5mm ammo to level up ONE 21lvl BG char (also, BGs were more powerful in those times and centaurs/floaters had much less HPs). Now as ammo is a pain in the ass to craft, it's no longer a problem, because accumulating so much of it takes more than 1 day wasted on exping your char.
It was all started by making exp from killing critters diminishing.. FA exping and other "experience exploits" were discovered in order to make your 21 lvl pvp chars. Personally, I think it's pathetic when I have to repeat some stupid things like hitting something and healing it, or other ways to fast exp, instead of just making ammo and going to kill some creatures/raiders/marauders and such. But I'll still do it (like others who like pvp), because to fight effectively, I need 21 lvl powerbuilds as everyone else and I'm not going to fight in serious battles with 3 CH crafter char, despite of how big will be your mouth while speaking about "lame powerbuilds for brainless pvp players".
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Why to come up with such complicated ideas when all you need is to bring back reasonable experience for killing critters. As I remember, it took more than 15k 5mm ammo to level up ONE 21lvl BG char (also, BGs were more powerful in those times and centaurs/floaters had much less HPs). Now as ammo is a pain in the ass to craft, it's no longer a problem, because accumulating so much of it takes more than 1 day wasted on exping your char.
It was all started by making exp from killing critters diminishing.. FA exping and other "experience exploits" were discovered in order to make your 21 lvl pvp chars. Personally, I think it's pathetic when I have to repeat some stupid things like hitting something and healing it, or other ways to fast exp, instead of just making ammo and going to kill some creatures/raiders/marauders and such. But I'll still do it (like others who like pvp), because to fight effectively, I need 21 lvl powerbuilds as everyone else and I'm not going to fight in serious battles with 3 CH crafter char, despite of how big will be your mouth while speaking about "lame powerbuilds for brainless pvp players".
Well the problem is that devs seems to not like that option so thats why I'm trying to come up with something new. But its true that I would like to leave PvP grounds just for fight for reward/glory/fun rather than combine it with exping.
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No, we don't like the option of finding one easy to level critter and that being ridden to 21 in no time at all. Killing critters needs more critter classes and better base xp for them.
One is a technical issue and one will hopefully be done before too long.
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No, we don't like the option of finding one easy to level critter and that being ridden to 21 in no time at all. Killing critters needs more critter classes and better base xp for them.
One is a technical issue and one will hopefully be done before too long.
I guess adding 3d to the game now will make it much more easier for you (devs) to add new creatures wich can be used for what you just said.
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Now that we got this cool reputation system it could be fused with exping. Imagine if you would be hired by npc faction to kill its enemies. Let's say it's slavers and rangers. Rangers hire you to kill slavers, you get good experience for every slaver you kill, your status among rangers increases but you'll be more hated among slavers. This way players could grow their exp and status at the same time. Once you're level 21, you're a respected member of rangers but most hated enemy of slavers. You're fully battle ready and there's no question who to go against.
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No, we don't like the option of finding one easy to level critter and that being ridden to 21 in no time at all. Killing critters needs more critter classes and better base xp for them.
One is a technical issue and one will hopefully be done before too long.
Why don't you make diminishing exp rather "player lvl vs critter lvl" based than decided by number of kills? Its nonsense not be be able to level up on critter that you have killed more than 10 times. Imho it should work like this:
Leveling up will be the most effective when player kills critters that have the same or similar level as him. When he do so he will get 100% exp no matter how many critters he kills. But when he will kill critters that are significantly below/above his level he will get lesser exp (for above its to eliminate higher lvl player boosting lower lvl friend). So greater the difference between players and creeps level is, smaler portion of exp player gets from such creeps.
This will require many changes in current creep system. Creeps should be level based meaning we could encounter lvl 1 rats but also lvl 6 rats. Distinguished from each other by their model size, contour color, skin color, additional graphic elements (possible more or less only with 3d models). This would mean we won't have only 1 kind of creep but also additional sub-kinds of the same creep leaving players wider choice of their prey. Also something like tough creeps could be implemented. It should be something like "elite" version of their kind so something like deathclaw mother/extra strong molerat etc. They should reward player with more exp and in some cases even some items near their nests or something. Also some easter egg creeps could get implemented to special encounters (Many-as-one rat from PST, Ian from original game etc...). But my point is to make leveling fun and not so time consuming for PvP chars.
With this system it could look somehow like this: You create your char, you will have to get yourself a tent or base asap, then it will require some ammo/weapon to get in busyness. When you have some you could start killing creeps for exp. At the beginning pretty much anything will do the trick since low lvl creeps are common. But at higher lvls you would have to search for creeps that are near your level = you won't have easy exp but income will be stable. Also if you decide to go killing some centaurs/floaters/aliens/fire geckos right from the beginning then you will fail hard. Those creeps would give you only small portion of base EXP if you are like 3+ levels under their level. So your EXP income could be pretty much balanced since rate "exp gained from creeps : exp needed for next lvl" would be easy to moderate. First few levels would be easy to get, middle would require some harder creeps and better exp reward from then while low lvl creeps would give you again only small % of base exp and when you reach certain lvl it would be effective to take down some hardcore mobs like deathclaws/floaters/centaurs. And since ammo/weapon requirements would grow with each level it seems to me like the best way how to make lvling system. No easy exp yet stable income of exp, also requirements for killing creeps grow with every new level (since higher lvl = need to kill harder mobs that have more hp = more ammo used/need for better weaponry, more players to kill them etc).
And something so elemental as sharing exp between party members would help drastically.
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More xp? But is so easy now, do you want too easy... You get xp from quest, killing, crafting and go around and avoid encounter too, i make 2000 xp for hour of play. Do you really want become 21 in only a few days?
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More xp? But is so easy now, do you want too easy... You get xp from quest, killing, crafting and go around and avoid encounter too, i make 2000 xp for hour of play. Do you really want become 21 in only a few days?
210,000/2000 = 105 hours. And you counted in also quests/crafting that is restricted for PvP chars. For a man with family or simply busy guy its not possible to play 24/7. Lets say I will spend 3 hours per day ingame (even when thats way more than I'm able to sacrifice for games). With your "fast" exp its 35 days of leveling up until I'm able to have some fun with my char. Now what if someone could spend only 1 hour, 2 at the most? 2238 is here for about some 8 months so far with 3 wipes. So based on that wipe comes every 3rd month. So some people will spend 1/2 of the whole season time just to get to a point when they will be able to have fun? Thats like WTF?!
I don't want to level up 21 in few days. I want leveling up to be fun. But without more content (which is not done over night) the only way how to make that happen is faster exp or at least stable income or SOMETHING. Current game state absolutely don't support solo or casual gaming and thats what this is about, so if you don't read the topic then don't post to it.
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With your "fast" exp its 35 days of leveling up until I'm able to have some fun with my char.
Looks ok for me, also note that you can have fun even if you're not level 21 ! Yes sir, try it !
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Looks ok for me, also note that you can have fun even if you're not level 21 ! Yes sir, try it !
But you're no hardcore combat machine before!! :p
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Looks ok for me, also note that you can have fun even if you're not level 21 ! Yes sir, try it !
Enlighten me then. As I've asked many times: What do you do to have fun ingame? How do you spend your time?
And as it was stated before you can have fun if you enjoy certain activities, but again there are people that simply don't enjoy "passive" activities and they want adrenaline and action. They should suffer just because they like something else than others? Also when you compare PvP and PvE characters then PvE crafters or average guys don't need to reach 21 lvl so badly as PvP chars. Crafters can have all what they need maxed at mid levels, same goes for SPECIAL requirements that I've mentioned earlier. But PvP has its own specific rules and if you want to join and enjoy it (and not only die all day long), you have to meet certain requirements to do so. And thats 18+ lvl, good gear, good build, good tactics and team etc. But crafters can master their goals at 12th lvl. They don't need to be 21 in order to craft those best items. If they were I guess this thread would look completely differently...
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True, true. However, you say that PvP players can only fight if they are level 21, otherwise they would die too often [against other players (PvP)]. But if everyone has hard time in reaching level 21, then all PvP players will be around level 15, not level 21, and then they will fight between mid-powerbuilds, not between full-powerbuilds. It's exactly like in OBT2 ; most of the players were around level 20, but there were still some players level 60 that were sometimes showing up with their 600hp. I guess it's quite the same here.
But crafters can master their goals in 1/2 of leveling up. They don't need to be 21 in order to craft those best items. If they were I guess this thread would look completely differently...
Yup, but remember game is still in development.
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Not every player is on 21.. And I didn't know that pvp is only restricted to town control? If you want to pvp before reaching 21, why not offering yourself as q "merc" for example, offer protection foor noobs when they want to visit qn unguarded mine etc, just be a bit creative qnd you will have fun without being passive all the time as you say..
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True, true. However, you say that PvP players can only fight if they are level 21, otherwise they would die too often [against other players (PvP)]. But if everyone has hard time in reaching level 21, then all PvP players will be around level 15, not level 21, and then they will fight between mid-powerbuilds, not between full-powerbuilds. It's exactly like in OBT2 ; most of the players were around level 20, but there were still some players level 60 that were sometimes showing up with their 600hp. I guess it's quite the same here.
Everyone has same hard time reaching 21 but nolifers will do it in less than 1 week no matter what. Then if we want to play with them we have to get into the same sand-pit as they are. You see now its like casual gamer is doing some sand cakes but dedicated guys build sand castles. Thats what I don't get why don't you try to change it. No lifers will be here no matter what you do. Sure, but for regular guy it is just nightmare to do some PvP right now. Again and over again: When there is some content that would keep us busy then OK, it will be fun to play. But now its not fun at all because we have to do boring stuff and worst part on it, we have to repeat that boring stuff like million times to be able to stand a chance against others.
Yup, but remember game is still in development.
Precisely! Why don't you then change leveling up into something more reasonable and little more fun for everyone rather than satisfy just certain groups of players? Whats so bad at being able to level up faster, create alternative and experimental builds and test them all? Were there some radical flaws because of this during season 1/2 so you had to change it or you just want game to become "longer"? If its just because you feel need to have game that is not 1 week job, then of course, its reasonable but only when the game has something to offer how to fill that time! We are not there yet so for god sakes why do you make it so boring?!
Edit:
Not every player is on 21.. And I didn't know that pvp is only restricted to town control? If you want to pvp before reaching 21, why not offering yourself as q "merc" for example, offer protection foor noobs when they want to visit qn unguarded mine etc, just be a bit creative qnd you will have fun without being passive all the time as you say..
Man have you ever played this way? How could people who camp mining sites be any different from those who will stand against you when you try to take over town? Have anyone from those who say that there are means how to enjoy game as low lvls PvP build ever done something from what they say its possible to do? You say we can have fun but when you say how then its something that simply does not work in this game or you better don't say anything. You only try to shut us up with that there are ways how to entertain yourself and thats it.
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why do you make it so boring?!
It's not the devs fault if you decide to just lay a hand on just one part of the game. "The way is the goal", try out a few possibilities the game offers, be creative as said, make low or midgame pvp somewhere else and when finally reaching 21 you can take part of "endgame pvp" like the TC. Actually, it's not that different as in other MMOs ...
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Powerhouse combat machine? Some builds can't even put points into combat until later on for perk reasons, I'm lvl 10 and my energy weapons skill is only at 102. It was a bitch to grind up to that solely with quests too.
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No, we don't like the option of finding one easy to level critter and that being ridden to 21 in no time at all. Killing critters needs more critter classes and better base xp for them.
Can we get what Sius said about critter levels and also have experience gained based on critter HP?
Also, since this is beta, why not give people like Sius, who say they don't have time, a level 21 char and be done with it? Everyone else will just do it the old-fashioned way.
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I wouldn't say you're really using them. There aren't any dungeons or group pve areas, even if there were the only benefits are xp and gear which are both found everywhere. There's no incentive to do anything but pvp in groups.
If you don't do any quests, you are right. And this will never change.
If you do quests, you are wrong, as I nearly always use instanced maps for them, as it leaves the most free room for storytelling.
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If you don't do any quests, you are right. And this will never change.
If you do quests, you are wrong, as I nearly always use instanced maps for them, as it leaves the most free room for storytelling.
I've done all the quests several times and the closest thing you guys have to an instance is killing rats and dogs, not exactly thrilling gameplay. The best designed missions I've seen in game so far are the ones for joining the raiders, but even that was brief and once you join it doesn't progress anywhere.
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This matters like so much:
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You wrote that FOnline doesn't have instanced maps / zones, I proved you wrong.
It's pretty much a pvp only game, any mmo's that doesn't have pve instances can't really be anything else.
FOnline: 2238 is using instanced maps / zones as well.
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Can we get what Sius said about critter levels and also have experience gained based on critter HP?
Also, since this is beta, why not give people like Sius, who say they don't have time, a level 21 char and be done with it? Everyone else will just do it the old-fashioned way.
Its based on "player lvl vs critter lvl" not critters HP. But sure higher lvl = more tough monsters with more hp so you could say its kinda HP based but not really.
Edit: I would love to know what you devs think of that exp income idea I had (1st post at 15th page).
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This matters like so much:
...
You wrote that FOnline doesn't have instanced maps / zones, I proved you wrong.
FOnline: 2238 is using instanced maps / zones as well.
I'm talking instances like PVE dungeons that you quest in like every other mmo, not a single encounter with some retarded ai swarming you that lasts a minute.
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Well, we have such things as well. Via quest(s).
Beside this, instanced zones are instanced zones. Doesn't matter, what you find there.
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Well, we have such things as well. Via quest(s).
Yeah my point is none of them are longer than a minute, require help, have any worthwhile reward or are fun. This is why its purely a pvp game, there is almost no pve content other than grinding mobs.
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Yeah my point is none of them are longer than a minute, require help, have any worthwhile reward or are fun.
Again, you are wrong.
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Again, you are wrong.
You have any examples to back that up?
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Yeah. Play the new Klamath quests, then we might talk again. Or not, if I am not in the mood.
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Its based on "player lvl vs critter lvl" not critters HP. But sure higher lvl = more tough monsters with more hp so you could say its kinda HP based but not really.
Let's say exp=hp. Then if you kill a molerat with 50hp you get 50exp. If you are level 10 and molerat is level 5 you get 50% of experience for molerat, thus 25exp. That's what I had in mind.
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Yeah. Play the new Klamath quests, then we might talk again. Or not, if I am not in the mood.
You know what, I will. But I can tell you right off the bat that 500 xp and 200 caps is a joke at lvl 10+.
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We will see.
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Well I was thinking something similar. To cover all possible scenarios I will show it on mid level example:
I'm lvl 12 player.
I know that some particular kinds of wolves, geckos and molerats are about the same level as I'm.
I have an encounter - lets say its golden geckos against fire geckos. I can see that some of golden geckos have light green contour so they are 1 or 2 levels below me and I would have only 80/90% exp gain from them. Instead I will focus at those golden geckos that are highlited with yelow. They are on the same level as I'm so they will give me 100% exp. But there are also fire geckos with red and deep red (almost black) contour. Those with red contour are like 1-2 levels above mine so they will give me slightly more exp like 105/110% of base exp. And then there is last kind of fire geckos. They are almost with black contour so they are like 3+ levels higher than me so I won't get more than 60% of base exp out of them.
After this encounter I stumble across some rats. They are way below mine lvl, they have grey contour so they will not give me more than 20% of base exp per kill. No reason why I should waste my ammo here.
Also those + or - % should not be hard set. It should depend on how dangerous that critter is. I mean killing 6lvl molerat is not the same as killing 6lvl raider with hunting rifle. So I I'm 5th lvl and I kill this molerat. I will get like 100% of base exp even when that creature has slightly higher lvl than me. But when I kill that raider I will get 105% of its base exp since he is way more dangerous than molerat.
This would encourage people to risk a bit to gain their reward, yet it will be easy to manage system. Everything depends on creatures abilities/base exp and + or - % with level difference.
But it can't be HP=EXP based since exp income would be pretty much the same no matter what your lvl is. Those most bad ass creatures like centaurs/deathclaws/desert stalkers have no more than 120-180 hp and gaining lets say 200 exp per kill of such bastard mob is not enough reward. Man with this system you could get more exp by crafting ammo you will waste to kill them than from kills themselves :D. I thought it would be similar to what we have now. There is base exp set for every mob type and every mob level and exp degression is based on your level and what you kill rather than on how many you kill.
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Well, lvl-based experience for killing critters is definitely the best idea to solve the issue with exping pvp chars. Good idea, Sius, +1
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But seems that Devs like their system and they want "testing" it. I think that they dont want different system, maybe better system.
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But seems that Devs like their system and they want "testing" it.
From where do you know? Because we didn't changed the system after 1 hour, since the "idea came up"?
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And how long you want testing it ?
You dont have only positive replies, you have many negative replies too.
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We get negative replies every day in every topic. A bunch more will not fasten up anything, if at all.
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We get negative replies every day in every topic. A bunch more will not fasten up anything, if at all.
But some replies here and there would certainly help to calm down (or upset) some people.
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Well, what do you want to hear? "Sure, will be done tomorrow."?
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We dont say it. But many players dont like 2238 like we have now. You want lost every players beacuse now its "Eden for no lifers and crafters" ? Personally i want hear if you WANT any changes or not.
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I'd really want to see a lvlbased experience system instead of diminishing xp. But, its the devs call. If they want to work on the current one and fix it a bit, thats their decision. But I think it is a bit too lame lvling via creeps atm, but thats what i think.
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what the fuck are you doin? seriously
go argue at chatroulette with webcam
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Well, what do you want to hear? "Sure, will be done tomorrow."?
I want to hear your opinion on it. What do you think as a developer about it. Are there any major drawbacks that we didn't think of? Will you consider this during your development? If so what are the prognosis this will get implemented and if they are good when we can expect that (or will it be priority?).
When you communicate with people then its mainly about technical issues or just some general chitchat but you can hardly see some dev actually saying what they think about our suggestions. Yea its time consuming work as pretty much anything connected to game development but some basic idea what you consider good/bad suggestion would help us with out future ideas. In suggestion board topics get moved to closed suggestions with verdict like once in a month or so. Tell us what you (dis)like about our suggestions and how they will most likely end. Imho authors of suggestions will appreciate any verdict from the developers (does not matter if its positive or negative) more over not knowing.
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We dont say it. But many players dont like 2238 like we have now. You want lost every players beacuse now its "Eden for no lifers and crafters" ? Personally i want hear if you WANT any changes or not.
Weird, exactly the same (about losing players), you can hear from crafters and no-lifers, but they complain and whine because of "damned Russian PK's". And amount of players is increasing.
Critical miss with weapon dropped, sir.
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Bad argument. Devs cant change players behaviour. If someome is russian and want be PK nobody can nothing with it. And increasing ? Maybe, its few days after wipe. Wait some time, and dont worry. With this style they come, see and go out. We had this many times before too.
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And yet the game exists. So you can just QTF.
As for devs' replies: Don't expect any. If Lexx says "Sure, we'll do it." Then 5 million players will pop up saying "nooooo. this iz shit" and if devs finally decide that it wouldn't work out, another 5 million will pop up and say "why you not do this? you promise. I hate game."
So just post suggestions and make sure a dev reads them. That's enough. If they like it, maybe they'll do it. But you never know. Because if they told you, but changed their mind, then you'd complain. So they keep quiet.
But it can't be HP=EXP based since exp income would be pretty much the same no matter what your lvl is. Those most bad ass creatures like centaurs/deathclaws/desert stalkers have no more than 120-180 hp and gaining lets say 200 exp per kill of such bastard mob is not enough reward. Man with this system you could get more exp by crafting ammo you will waste to kill them than from kills themselves :D. I thought it would be similar to what we have now. There is base exp set for every mob type and every mob level and exp degression is based on your level and what you kill rather than on how many you kill.
Why I wanted HP-based EXP is because right now we have centaurs that have 400+ HP that appear on most wasteland, and also 270HP centaurs that appear in two hexes on wasteland. Also baby deathclaws are treated as adult deathclaws. So if you kill a 400HP centaur you right now get the same exp as if you killed a 270HP one. And they have identical stats. Only different HP. Much like Brahmins all over wasteland. That's why I say it should be HP-based. To reward killing higher-hp critters instead of punishing players for not finding the easy ones. But with different levelled critters that shouldn't really matter as they would have different HP.
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Player trend has been generally constantly upwards, ignoring pre wipe decreases and occasional blips upwards. But then again we had people saying the player base would crash a couple of weeks after we started at the very beginning, guess we just suck.
Still funny when people complain about crafting getting harder/slower when it either remained at roughly the same speed at low levels and increased dramatically if you have the gonads to go out and mine on unguarded maps - shouldn't be hard for a bunch of uber leet!!1 PvPers such as yourselves ;)
I want to hear your opinion on it. What do you think as a developer about it.
Main downsides are having to completely rework the system and go through manually to decide each critters "level" in each encounter. Far easier to create more catagories when we can and autogenerate better base xp from the critters stats, with not much difference in the results either.
There is no problem at all with making it faster for people to level by killing critters, if its done in the right way ... this chip on the shoulder that some of you seem to get when we fix bugs, whilst amusing, is pretty paranoid. You'd stand a far better chance of getting things done for you if you lost ~95% of the moaning from your posts.
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Still funny when people complain about crafting getting harder/slower when it either remained at roughly the same speed at low levels and increased dramatically if you have the gonads to go out and mine on unguarded maps - shouldn't be hard for a bunch of uber leet!!1 PvPers such as yourselves ;)
You see it's not about crafting being hard/slow its about EXP gained from crafting is too low (I like current crafting system as it comes, but its still cooldown based so it has its drawbacks bu thats not the case here). The reason why we why they seems low for us is mainly because there is nothing to do yet and we have to repeat boring stuff. And that pretty much covers grinding exp from critters too.
If you are thinking about just adding few new critter kinds or sub-kinds to current system then yes, it might help a bit but at the end it can not work. Why? Because you refuse to see the game from bigger picture. Imagine you will stick to current system and as the game develops you would add new critters, bosses, PvE challenges and all that stuff. At that point all what it takes to get rocket exp is just to search for critters you haven't killed that much before and since there would be many critters it should not be any problem to do. It has its flaws you see. Thats why I suggest to rework it to system when players level matters and creeps could appear in like bazillion combinations. But best of all its easy to manage leveling speed through few simple changes once the system is up and running. Lets get it summarized:
Current leveling system
+ rocket exping at hardcore mobs is not possible
- lack of creature variety leading to small or almost non exp gain at all from some
- nothing like stable exp income exists
- imho it has been made slower prematurely leaving casual gamer bored and depended on repetition
Players lvl vs creeps lvl system
+ rocket exping at hardcore mobs is not possible
+ many new creature kinds/sub-kinds available (even without new skins)
+ easy to manage system (you can adjust leveling speed as you see fit without any side effects)
+ stable exp income at all levels yet leveling speed depends clearly on player and his skills and choices
- someone has to create it
You see we have like 4-5 really tough creatures ingame right now so when people focus only on them, diminishing exp will cut their source of exp really fast. Leaving them to farm every other living creature out there. But thats all what you really want to have ingame? Just 5 hard mob types and thats it? But if you want more then with every new hard mob added leveling will become faster and will come closer to rocket exping (even when now its like to compare an ant with an elephant). All I'm saying is that current diminishing exp system just can't work properly when the game reaches certain stage in development. Why don't you focus on something that could last and it has all the benefits of the current system and some additional bonuses on its own.
Simply some compromise between seasons 1/2 and season 3/4 leveling speed would be appreciated by casual gamers until some serious leveling system is done.
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I think this is lost battle. NCR noobs-no lifers will always win because they will be crying when they got killed in mine by 21st level boosted PvP char.
It doesn't matter. I'm going to mining site with my char and I will kill everyone who I don't know so they can have reason to cry like: I got killed in mining site! Devs do something with this or I will stop playing! Erase all ammo and guns! I want harmless and peacefull game without player killers!
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Devs do something with this or I will stop playing! Erase all ammo and guns! I want harmless and peacefull game without player killers!
And BAM, we'r back on Hello Kitty Online topic.
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And BAM, we'r back on Hello Kitty Online topic.
Do you know irony man? I don't like FOnline 2238 at this moment, I'm playing because I hope thet some change will come.
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I think this is lost battle. NCR noobs-no lifers will always win because they will be crying when they got killed in mine by 21st level boosted PvP char.
It doesn't matter. I'm going to mining site with my char and I will kill everyone who I don't know so they can have reason to cry like: I got killed in mining site! Devs do something with this or I will stop playing! Erase all ammo and guns! I want harmless and peacefull game without player killers!
We can say the same thing about you: OMG exping PVP is boring, give q for CH1 chars, moar xp for me, make craftig rockets easier etc. etc.
I know that more PvE events should be added. But they will be later. You know the game and exp system and you know that exping this pvp char will be hard. Just deal with it and wait for some content update.
BTW: Many of Sius idea's are right, but please stop moaning. It's boring like exping pvp char to 21lvl :/
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Do you know irony man? I don't like FOnline 2238 at this moment, I'm playing because I hope thet some change will come.
Imho there is significant part of community that plays 2238 because of love to Fallout universum. If it was build on something else than Fallout we could expect playerbase to be absolutely different. Right now I don't enjoy playing either but I will do everything I can to change that fact. And if developers will be stubborn bean counters then I guess its really best just to wait until they add game content and maybe then return to FOnline.
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I think this is lost battle. NCR noobs-no lifers will always win because they will be crying when they got killed in mine by 21st level boosted PvP char.
NCR noobs aren't the same with no-lifers. First ones stay at NCR and cry because they've just lost their shovel, second ones grind as hell, so they can get "main goal", which is obviously 21 level, in couple days. None of these two kinds cries in this topic, by the way :>
I don't know what is with those "dangerous" mines up north. It is almost impossible to meet someone there, maybe I'm choosing wrong hours for chit-chatting during digging.
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Imho there is significant part of community that plays 2238 because of love to Fallout universum. If it was build on something else than Fallout we could expect playerbase to be absolutely different. Right now I don't enjoy playing either but I will do everything I can to change that fact. And if developers will be stubborn bean counters then I guess its really best just to wait until they add game content and maybe then return to FOnline.
Just (since I like silly numbers :p) compare the NMA crowd with the FOnline crowd. I've played a few hours with a few well known users/admins from NMA till they found it pretty shitty what has become to fallout. I could understand them, but I also coan understand that fonline is simply fun. So its not like you said that "true fallout fans" are taking place of this game, right now I only know (I'd count you in) 50 players from 500 who care about fallout AT ALL.
And that is the main issue why players left. It's just not the fallout we used to play.
But I can understand that a "Das Oedland ist harrrrrrrrsch!!!" ( ;) ) isnt appealing to everyone, even if one likes FO1/2. Its just a completely different experience.
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We can say the same thing about you: OMG exping PVP is boring, give q for CH1 chars, moar xp for me, make craftig rockets easier etc. etc.
I know that more PvE events should be added. But they will be later. You know the game and exp system and you know that exping this pvp char will be hard. Just deal with it and wait for some content update.
BTW: Many of Sius idea's are right, but please stop moaning. It's boring like exping pvp char to 21lvl :/
For you is PvP booring, for us PvR is booring. We need balance beetwen this things. But right now we have destroy game for PvPers and crafters(PvE,people who have days and days to spend in game) have eden.
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For you is PvP booring, for us PvR is booring. We need balance beetwen this things. But right now we have destroy game for PvPers and crafters(PvE,people who have days and days to spend in game) have eden.
I understand it, but sadly there' in only one option for us: waiting for new content/change (ane post suggestion, but many of us already done this in this topic ;) )
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For you is PvP booring, for us PvR is booring. We need balance beetwen this things. But right now we have destroy game for PvPers and crafters(PvE,people who have days and days to spend in game) have eden.
You're always saying PvP "for us" (as you like to call "us" NCR noobs) is boring, but you don't know all of the chars. I can only speak for me, I am no hardcore PK,PvP nor crafter, I just want to test every aspect the game has. I would ALSO like to test TC out for the first time, but I didnt find a proper gang since now.
So really, I understand that you find it sometimes boring at the moment, its really not a surprise. But please, you sound like a man one can talk the good talk with, not everyone who is staying in ncr is just staying the whole day there. ;) Actually, I hate the ncr...
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Do you know irony man? I don't like FOnline 2238 at this moment, I'm playing because I hope thet some change will come.
;) not saying that you are wrong, I'm not playing at all atm actually, the constant lags/rollbacks are a small part of that but the biggest reason for me to not play atm is the slow xp gain and ammo drawback. So atm I'm waiting for changes as you are.
(irony man, i like that :D)
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The drawback of getting ammo faster than before the wipe in the majority of cases and virtually the same for almost all the rest? :-\
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Just (since I like silly numbers :p) compare the NMA crowd with the FOnline crowd. I've played a few hours with a few well known users/admins from NMA till they found it pretty shitty what has become to fallout. I could understand them, but I also coan understand that fonline is simply fun. So its not like you said that "true fallout fans" are taking place of this game, right now I only know (I'd count you in) 50 players from 500 who care about fallout AT ALL.
And that is the main issue why players left. It's just not the fallout we used to play.
But I can understand that a "Das Oedland ist harrrrrrrrsch!!!" ( ;) ) isnt appealing to everyone, even if one likes FO1/2. Its just a completely different experience.
Are you serious? I thought everyone here didn't leave because they DID care about the fallout universe at all.
Take me, for example. I just didn't leave this game despite it's shitty mechanics, bugs and lags, because I DO care about fallout universe, and that's what kept me playing. Most likely the roleplay and gameplay of fallout, which isn't multiplayer centered AT ALL. I would rather just have it co-op so I could play fallout's standard storyline with friends, but that isn't the case.
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Are you serious? I thought everyone here didn't leave because they DID care about the fallout universe at all.
Take me, for example. I just didn't leave this game despite it's shitty mechanics, bugs and lags, because I DO care about fallout universe, and that's what kept me playing. Most likely the roleplay and gameplay of fallout, which isn't multiplayer centered AT ALL. I would rather just have it co-op so I could play fallout's standard storyline with friends, but that isn't the case.
I agree with this poster. I stayed only because I love fallout(not 2238- it's not fallout for me really)
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i wanna yet add that rhere is no MMO that would hande things like in fallout - I mean pistols miniguns rockets sniping armors but no galactic flying and shit .
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i wanna yet add that rhere is no MMO that would hande things like in fallout - I mean pistols miniguns rockets sniping armors but no galactic flying and shit .
Well sci-fi theme is not favorite in MMO genre. Anyway it does not mean that its not possible to handle such features. It is but not the way FOnline does it. Problem with FOnline is that it takes its own path and just considering regular MMO mechanics to be applied here is taken like blaspheming by some. Sure everything can be done even the way FOnline does it but I'm having this feeling that developers don't have any game concept and they simply add/repair features one by one as they see fit but they don't see the game from bigger picture.
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Well, I just can say one thing: If people don't like FOnline: 2238, they don't have to stay for the shake of it. Make a design document of a more fallouty MMO, send it to cvet and if he likes it, you get the SDK. That's how it works. You (the one who doesn't like it) will have less stress with 2238, we will have less stress with people who don't like 2238 and have to tell it all the time and in the end, all are happy.
Beside this, my latest information are, that the server and client files will be released around summer. So... if someone wants to start then, he can start to prepare already.
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I agree with this poster. I stayed only because I love fallout(not 2238- it's not fallout for me really)
play fallout then if you love fallout. Playe fonline if you like fonline.
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Well i tried doing that klamath quest and i can't because I'm a slaver. :/
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There is no slaver check in the dialog and quest. There is not even a holy CH1 check.
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No one in town will open up a dialog box with me, its not the black trapper in trapper town?
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guards at NCR piss me off, everything else is good
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the oldest players who were playing this from beging are leaving it now ... and why ? Exping characters hard and boring, crafting is hard and boring. Exping and feeding bigguners incredibly time-eating and boring, instants are back ... imo this makes bigguners useless once again.
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It has nothing to do with hard but everything to do with boring.
Anyway can we expect any changes in exp income/mechanics? All I'm trying to achieve here is to find some compromise between old exp rates and current diminishing mechanics so leveling would be possible in reasonable time horizon even for "regular" people. Also as I've already pointed out, current diminishing exp system has its flaws so will you consider some changes or will you just stick with the current system and its settings and see how it goes? And please tell me what do you think about lvl-based experience for killing critters. I don't want any official statements here, I just would like to know your personal opinion on it.
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craft, kill stuff, level up, go home, craft again, kill stuff again
Good part is pvp...but i did A LOT of those too...It's getting....
boring
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I do enjoy this game very much, but being forced by Pk-ers to throw my hard work into their coffers does not sit right with me. I dont say remove the PvP, but at least make it an option, a simple button during character reg or something.
since PvP can choose to go PvE anytime, and sure i can choose to go PvP, but i wouldn't enjoy it, since im not a f*cktard/jerk.
And generally, somewhere, i strongly believe that you can find the same kind of people behind the PvP chars, no matter what game. (not counting anything like battlefield since you dont put shit into your char, you are just a random crashtestdummy with a rifle, respawn, oh crap nothing changed at all... not even in WOW really)
yes i'm bashing wildly around everything, since you do put time and effort into your char here. you go for resources, you craft, you collect caps, and i believe most PvE players do this to be able to beat monsters. Not hoping to die in random encounter with one second short lag/map loading where any guy with burst weapon kills you before you realize there was an encounter and then gladly give him your stuff.
As stated, Dont remove PvP (you never would if i actually wanted it anyway), You Devs seriously deserve standing ovations and applause for your hard work and dedication, but at least, if there ever will be a final version of this game, please make it an option to be PvP in that version.
Zpider out.
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FOnline lacks some global goal. Atm its free for all and only people who don't kill each other are gang members or gangs in alliances. Imho something like global factions/states could improve this PvP situation (I guess someone already suggested that before me). At the beginning player would start as noone but during playing he could choose what faction/state to join and become PvP friendly with other members of same faction/state. I mean there could be some global and huge factions that would have different status with each other and this status should decide whenever opposite faction member is an enemy, neutral or friend to you. So its logical if BoS and Enclave are both military factions with different goals and policy then they will not love each other. Same goes for VC and NCR etc...
Imho there should be something like wastelands politics. I mean that factions should fight among themselves, follow their goals and simply have their own life. And players should decide who to join and fight for their ideals, money, glory or whatever. And players as such should work like means how factions interact with each other. Lets say that NCR has 3-4 small bases somewhere in 1st and 2nd line of defenses of the main city and if raiders successfully capture some of these bases NCR will loose some of its power in wasteland etc. Maybe something similar for non-PvP players like supporting your faction with materials. So lets say after some 10 000 iron ores/minerals obtained and turned at NPC collectors (meant globally for whole faction not per player ;) ) some high ranked player could command faction manufacturing to create armors/weapons/ammo for their not lootable NPCs placed in cities as guards or at those bases I mentioned earlier. So with more materials farmed and turned to your faction stronger the NPCs get or better bunkers are made etc.
Simply some global goal that would put players into groups and people in these groups could support each other but they would not be able to kill fellow member. Some possibility to work your way up in chain of command in such factions, support them in both PvP and PvE, communicate and make diplomacy or war with other factions etc. Something like this would drag me back to FOnline no matter what .
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I like your solution, but how does it respond to people who like to just do their thing? maybe i missed it, but are those factions player controlled and can they in that just tell a PvE-loner player to go cry somewhere, because that faction only want "productive" members?
I feel that the general fallout games doesn't really support actively killing anyone you meet, because that would make the karma system useless. you can easily kill everyone in the whole wasteland in fallout 2 (almost anyone), but it would result in... nothing at all.
People would probably go around killing whoever they wanted IRL too if they knew that it doesnt matter a bit, even if the person they kill would respawn, and you get no punishment at all...
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FOnline lacks some global goal.
That's for sure. If something should be implemented asap that would be some recognization system for pvp. There are evil people out there begging to be hunted, but there's no way to recognize them before they minigun burst you to face or instadeath crit you to head. Playerkillers are like insurgents hiding among common people.
If and when players can choose to fight for their factions, the gap between powerbuilds and normal chars has to be fixed. Because when the game starts forcing players to defend their factions, it also forces them to create powerbuilds to fight effectively.
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Well its not supposed to be just about good/bad people. I mean there should be some global conflict that takes place in our wasteland so players will have to choose sides and then cooperate with their comrades against common enemies. These things are hard to implement because of Fallout cannon. Since FOnline starts in year 2238 we can't really do whatever we want such as those states/factions and their wars.
I wonder if devs ever thought about this or if their goal is to make everything centered about one single man and gangs. Story which is deeply connected to global goals would finally put some background for FOnline and if people could affect wasteland with their actions it would be something fantastic.
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For the record, one of my team mates already did this kind of suggestion :
http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=193.msg1296#msg1296 (http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=193.msg1296#msg1296)
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Well its not supposed to be just about good/bad people. I mean there should be some global conflict that takes place in our wasteland so players will have to choose sides and then cooperate with their comrades against common enemies. These things are hard to implement because of Fallout cannon. Since FOnline starts in year 2238 we can't really do whatever we want such as those states/factions and their wars.
There's nothing wrong with this except the current pvp system where powerbuilds roam. If some dude was in VC and had a typical adventurer build and it was attacked by ncr which had many pvp-only manufactured characters, then it would basically force this adventurer dude to create a pvp oriented char to protect his faction.
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20:56:04 • You were critically hit for 31 hit points and knocked down.
20:56:05 • You were hit in the eyes for 7 hit points.
20:56:09 • You were critically hit in the eyes for 32 hit points, knocked down and blinded.
20:56:12 • You were critically hit in the eyes for 79 hit points, blinded, had your armor bypassed and lost your next turn.
20:56:15 • You were hit in the eyes for 11 hit points and were killed.
by deathclaw.. Good Work admins .
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how did you get the time stamp...?
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The admin was masked as a deathclaw?
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.... no , thx to your new crit. tabels
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Most of those results are from regions that are virtually unchanged, Deathclaws don't have better crits.
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There's nothing wrong with this except the current pvp system where powerbuilds roam. If some dude was in VC and had a typical adventurer build and it was attacked by ncr which had many pvp-only manufactured characters, then it would basically force this adventurer dude to create a pvp oriented char to protect his faction.
Well its not that hard to figure it out. PvP should be done by those who seek it and others shouldn't be dragged into it if they don't want. And same goes for PvE. But both PvE and PvP should stand next to each other so there wouldn't be any barier betweend them like it is right now. And as far as factions attacking each other goes well PvE guy should be always possible to serve his faction through his skills (provide materials so faction can upgrade armaments for their NPC soldiers, work like a spy, take a job as factions main "blacksmith" etc.) or simply totaly ignore anything like wasteland politics and live his life. Just because you join faction that has enemies (and you might hate them too) does not mean you have to fight them. But something like direct faction attack on cities should be something very very rare. Only execpion would be for raiders that are dependent on town raids but they attack to loot not to dominate.
Anyway the main idea is if you join some faction you won't be able to kill other faction members if they are considered as "good" by your faction itself. I mean if I join NCR and I kill "good" people then its only my reputation that goes down. But I think there should be something like global reputation amongs factions and each single one of the faction members should have some impact on it. So if I as NCR citizen and approved member of this faction start to killing "good" guys that are considered as friendly with my faction then its like -100 reputation for me an - 0.01 reputation for NCR as a faction. So if I cross some line and I mess up with wrong guys then my faction will slowly consider me as a problem and it will result in banish from my faction. Other faction members will be allowed to hunt me down etc. But if I do good for my faction then I will be able to work my way up in chain of command and eventualy maybe command one of the city outposts that I have mentioned earlier or have access to factions supplies to distribute them amongs faction crafters that will craft stuff from materials given to them and then hand over items made from these mats etc... Simply make factions matter. Right now their only purpose is to suply people with proffesion trainers and also to annoy them with broken reputation calculations etc. And also limiting peoples proffesion like "if you want SG 3 then you have to be raider" is nothing but really bad call for any game what so ever. Limiting your character development with "have to do in order to" choices is the worst thing what game developers can do. Give people freedom instead and make all profs accessible somehow without the need to bind your char to something where there is no turning back. Faction profession trainers should be always priority if you want to upgrade you skills easily but there should be another (hard) way around.
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how did you get the time stamp...?
use F2for saving messages, btw F1 shows you list of shortcuts and more usefull info.
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ah, thanks.
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And same goes for PvE. But both PvE and PvP should stand next to each other so there wouldn't be any barier betweend them like it is right now. And as far as factions attacking each other goes well PvE guy should be always possible to serve his faction through his skills (provide materials so faction can upgrade armaments for their NPC soldiers, work like a spy, take a job as factions main "blacksmith" etc.)
PvE man can fight too right? Well then why serve as arms supplier or thief if he can go to the front lines? Like you said, the barrier between pve and pvp has to be removed. I agree. However this must be done by altering the character's stats, perks and skill% impact on the character's effectiveness. Those factors should only determine what one can do, not how effectively one can do. The effectiveness should always come out of player's own skills, the character musn't do the thinking and planning for the player.
By this logic any char could pick up a gun and get in to the fray if the player knew how to fight in fonline. It's the same thing as if a player in some fps shooter went to fight with a pistol against better armed enemies. If you're skilled, you can still win less skilled enemies. Right now the characters do way too much work for players, leaving little room for actual skill.
EDIT: or what the hell, I'll make new thread.
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yep, maybe have a skill level necessary to use weapons instead, 180% in sg to use a sniper for example, maybe more?
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Now server is crap. Because server is shuting down every 2 hours. I'm finding lots of bugs, crashes giantic lags etc. If its possbile please change it because in short time this server will calapse
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yep, maybe have a skill level necessary to use weapons instead, 180% in sg to use a sniper for example, maybe more?
Everyone is always quick to suggest high values without considering how limited skill points are, 180 in sg excludes a lot.
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About the topic - well FO2238 currently is the only game I am playing... or was playing, before the server started lagging outrageously.
I was in euphoria when I saw Fallout 2 as mmorpg, it recreates it's atmosphere perfectly with other players. It's universe is not that vast like Lineage/WoW ( you'll never get lost ) and I already knew the world-map and almost all NPCs by heart. The game is really sadistic(!) and represents what probably the world would be after WW3/4 - even it has isometric game graphics, I just can't enjoy any other game like this one.
I am software developer and my day usually passes with 6-7 hours in coding and swearing, fixing bugs etc... and you should know - this game is the only thing except beer that relieves my nerves.
Keep up the good work.
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...well FO2238 currently is the only game I am playing...
Same here, not playing any other online games at the moment.
I really love what has been done with the game so far. It stays true to the original while adding in new elements to create and support an economy as well as many other features that propel MMORPGs.
The way gathering and crafting works, professions, tents and bank accounts, being able to hire mercs or become a slaver and enslave and sell NPCs, being able to create/join factions and make a plethora of different bases... Guarded and unguarded cities and mines, full loot and the constant danger of getting gunned down and robbed, or pickpocketed... Using radios to talk and send distress signals, being able to steal a players radio and spy on faction or group communication...and much more...
Honestly all of this combined makes the game feel like Ultima Online to me. UO is one of my favorite MMOs to date, I still play on a particular shard from time to time, and nobody has been able to make a game with that same feeling... (Except maybe Darkfall I guess but it still didn't feel right.) So for me it's like FOnline 2238 = Fallout + Ultima Online - and that's why I enjoy it so much...
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back to business with the diminishing xp removed ;D