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[Zeck]

Just because you can't fight with your 67th alt/ full toughness lifegiver/ drugs and 250 Hps makes pvp less interesting?
I can't really see why honestly.
And now some of you want to remove a part of the SPECIAL... seriously? (and you complain about nerfing then?)
Why are you still playing Fonline and not Bad Company 2 or some other action game. (which is a great game btw)
Does anyone here even care about the Fallout series?

One of the things that I was expecting when I started to play was, if not roleplay, at least teamplay where I could feet in a team with ONE character crafting guns, armor, ammo or drug or fighting or anything...
And like everyone else, I ended up with three lvl 21 chars which i must admit was fun for a moment.
But come on, have you got no more expectations than "let us reach lvl 21 in two days" and fight for no reason until the end of time enjoying 15% of the gamel? (and even less of its potential)
Do you remember the last session ended with NO ONE in Northern cities and less than 150 players?

I know you can't change people's minds when those people  play 10 hours a day and want to have their name written and remembered but still I dont get it.
I dont like mmos for all these mechanical things they imply but i spent a shitload of hours on Fonline already.
Why?
Because I still hope it won't turn into/be reduced to the regular mmo.
Which means childish, assisted, flat and 0 risk AND retarded power leveling, pure mathematics and counting to the skillpoint when creating a character.

[Sius]

Imho FOnline should have both PvP and PvE as strong aspects of the game and not to choose between them. Currently from my point of view when I reach lvl 12 with my crafter I'm able to get level 3 of profession I've chosen. I can craft pretty much everything I want. But what then? Should I trade and chat with others at NCR or go "scavengering" into caves? There is no real goal for me. My actions will not change anything by doing this. I will only get richer and richer every day and thats it. But in current PvP I see an opportunity how to enjoy the game, because situation is always changing. Even if you encounter the same group of 5 assholes with miniguns and rocket launchers 3 days in a row the fight will be always totally different forcing you to think fast and make a good choices or you will fail and loose your precious items and time. But now all this comes after long and boring leveling up that is flat as chest of some worlds top models. Game should be developed so everyone no matter if its quake or sims guy will enjoy it and will not be forced to play the way he don't like and with restrictions.

And when we look back how CH restriction began, then it was "thanks to voice of no-PvP guys". Back then someone suggested powerbuilders should be nerfed and so they implemented CH requirement for traders/quests. As I said back then it was no big deal so no one cared about it. But now and for future sake of FOnline please rework CH impact on the game because current state is ridiculous.
I mean whats the point of this restriction? Not allow PvPers to lvl and to barter because they are "ugly"? CH has nothing to do with ones appearance and its meant to be something like "inner spark". But lets compare the most charismatic ghoul or supermutant with uncharismatic man. Most of the people out there would rather trade/talk with a man but if there will be something like race choice in the future then all ghouls/mutants will have quests/traders restricted (apart of their own kind) from the beginning or what? Its simply leftover from old season that has 0 effect back then but now it has only negative effect on PvP players and forces them into creating another alt.

Lets summarize its:
minimum ST - low carry weight, hand to hand combat like a 12yo girl, bad aiming since you can't hold your weapon properly (can be fixed by perk and boosted by the heavy drugs)
minimum PE - almost blind person, you can use long range weapons only to smash opponents head if they come too close to you, you should not try to build homemade explosives (can be boosted by the light drugs also as by the heavy drugs)
minimum EN - you char will not live long enough to see another day
minimum CH - you can't trade, you can't do any quests, you are considered ugly and NPC interaction equals to chat with the wall (can be boosted by the heavy drugs)
minimum IN - your science skills are below freezing point of watter, you get almost no skill point (can be boosted through heavy drugs)
minimum AG - you move like after hangover, you have very low action points, your AC is minimal (can be boosted through light and heavy drugs)
minimum LK - small crit chance and other luck based elements, you are not able to pick some survival/dmg boosting perks

Which of these are important for crafter/average guy and which he can simply ignore? Crafters or average guys have mostly only 1 tops 2 of SPECIAL that they have to keep an eye on since they can't specialize on everything. Rest can be average or even below it. Mostly its combination of IN and ST that plays the main role for crafters but it depends on what they want to specialize.
But now take PvP char. ST is in many cases set just to minimum + weapon handling perk but its critical to meet weapons requirement. Character without average or better PE has nothing to do in PvP since hand to hand has 0 use here. EN simply has to be above average even for snipers or experimental builds since sneaking has still not much of an use. CH is ignored in order to meet other requirements. IN drops below average only at tanker/big gunner builds. AG - plays important role, almost always has to be above average. Minimum LK for PvP char is simply 6 because of perks and criticals. Only experimental builds go with average LK.

So when you take it from this point of view crafter or average guys really don't have to watch every point in SPECIAL since they can use drugs from time to time if they want their profession to get on higher level etc. But for PvP char everything apart from CH couts an has it own impact on the character and its combat abilities. Even 2 point difference in overall build play a role when it comes to survival/dmg dealing. But if there is minimum CH set to 3 for everyone, then its ok, otherwise you will have to satisfy with that you will always come as 2nd (and thats now what we are looking when we PvP, we want to compeete not to get our asses kicked because we have chosen we want to play with game content). CH is only stat that PvP char does not need and he is punished so hard? And you call this balance?

Imho CH should have greater impact on barter skill but not limit it at all. So if you have 1 CH you will sell items for like very low % but you will be able to sell them everywhere like regular people. Show me barter who will refuse to get rich just because he don't like you. And as for the quests than it should not be limited at all either. Rather make quests finishable through an easy way if you have better CH than limit them absolutely if you don't have any. Same applies here. Show me a person who will refuse your help because you lack your "inner spark". Of course when it comes to quests like seduce someone or talk people out of something then CH 1 char will have really hard times or won't be able to finish that quest at all but in general most of the quest should be accessible.

So limiting game content and esspecially something that important as quests by special is something that has nothing to do in mmo.

[JovankaB]

It's your problem and choice that you are mini-maxing to make powerbuild. You can PvP with 3 CH character as well. Don't tell me you can't because I know it's possible. If you are fixed so much with the idea of maximizing your chances even by some ridiculously small fraction, if you don't accept any compromises, then well... suffer. Pure crafters have disadvantages as well, if they will meet your monster builds they are dead, if they meet ghoul crazies, they are dead, etc. Every PvP player is in the same situation, so it's not like there is something unfair.

[Kilgore]

3 CH chars are lame in PvP, despite all your huge experience. 1 CH chars will be created as long as there is possibility to lower charisma below 3. Devs can't realise that no matter how much they will nerf so-called "fast-exping", there will be new ways to do it, discovered by the players who need it. If you really want to stop "21lvl big gunners from pwning you", then you need to completely disable gaining experience. Even with 1 CH, you can complete many quests, you just need to take mentats.

Nerf Mentats then!

[Heckler Spray]

Cool story, bro, anyway I don't really know what's your point. Saying " this game is in beta version, there will be a lot more contents, a lot of things to do, you just have to be patient" is ridiculous, since we are not angry because of lack of features, but the constant NERFING (devs call it BALANCING) of everything your worst enemies - PvP players of 2238, those bad guys without brain  but with 21 lvl chars - like doing in this game.....

Man, most of PvP players say they don't enjoy XPing/crafting... because there's nothing to do in the game, that's why I said there will be more content in the future.
Concerning the nerfing, well, it's the same for all of us, so you're not penalized. And you know the devs are in the balancing phase, so...
Yeah, it's hard to make many 21st level optimized figting chars, but it's also hard to survive in the Northern towns for an average char... It's a matter choice.
And for the record, I'm not against PvP, PvP players, or raiders, it's part of the game, and I like to do some fair PvP from time to time. I just find this opposition between PvP players and PvE/Role Players/crafters really stupid, same with the "North is for PvP, South for others" thing. In my opinion, Fallout is a game where you are free to make your own choice, but you also have to own up to your behevavior, every action has a consequence.

[Lexx]

If you want to make a CH3 (or CH1, hurr durr) character, it's your choice. I don't see where the problem is.

Also 90% of all my quests can be taken and solved with a CH1 build. I've never includet any killswitch, to shoot that down. Not even low intelligence would hinder you, nor any other x1 stat.

[Sius]

It's your problem and choice that you are mini-maxing to make powerbuild. You can PvP with 3 CH character as well. Don't tell me you can't because I know it's possible. If you are fixed so much with the idea of maximizing your chances even by some ridiculously small fraction, if you don't accept any compromises, then well... suffer. Pure crafters have disadvantages as well, if they will meet your monster builds they are dead, if they meet ghoul crazies, they are dead, etc. Every PvP player is in the same situation, so it's not like there is something unfair.

There is a difference between character possibilities and limiting game content. PvP char is as dead as crafter when it comes to deadly encounters (until that char is like 15+ lvl and at that point even crafter can survive and run away. PvP guy will just don't have to run. Thats the difference you don't see. You ignore that so called powerbuilding is natural thing that happens everywhere players can compete. So in order to get better you will have to build better and sacrifice needles points in order to reach more resistant/deadlier char. If you don't and you choose to actually play and do quests you might enjoy leveling up a bit more but eventually you will find out that people who have taken the hard way without charisma will kill you more easily. And again I will point out those SPECIAL priorities. PvP build have to carefully spend every point and only 2 stats he can really ignore are ST (thanks to weapon handling) and CH. Crafter can ignore pretty much anything apart from IN + his profession main attribute. Rest he chooses as he wants. So rolling a PvP char is not only harder without npc interaction ad possibility to do quests but it also does not provide that much "free choice" when it comes to SPECIAL stats. And you want to even already very limited chars limit even more?

What is the possible bad outcome of allowing PvP chars to quest and trade? People playing them might have fun leveling them up. Oh shit that must not happen!

[Hololasima]

Jovanka you want every char as you have ? Every char will be same, with 3 CHA. But its not will be PvP character if you dont know. It will be craft/battle character. Why we have disadvantages when he want have PvP character ? Yes if you want have every char with charisma just disable battle perks, battle stats and etc. Do it.
Jovanka and please dont talk about PvP or PvP characters. Yes you are GM but you know nothing. You was doctor, you are doctor, you will be doctor.

[Onion]

I agree on some thing which Sius pointer:
- more PvE (and special PvE encounters like fight with Deathclaw Mother, when you will require whole team to compete with this monster)
- more quests (and chain quest and quest where you need whole group: a gunner, mechanic, scientist etc.)
- more things to do for characters (achievments? trophies?)

But of course I know this game is in beta stage, so I just need to wait.

I disagree for removal of CH1 ban for quests. I simply don't want to CHA be a dump stat and I don't agree with your arguments - it's simply as that.

Another thing is crafting&gathering -> I think that system goes into right direction - crafting is more dynamic and not boring (remember what was before wipe? "click to dig, watch YT for 5 minutes, repeat". And whine about crafting being too long it's ridicoulus for me. If you craft XXX ammo for day, and you use it just for one big fight... It's not our or devs problem. Make smaller battles and if you run out of ammo during battle then you lose - your opponent is better prepared.

About my enjoyment: I enjoy FOnline and I'm waiting for more bug fixes, lag fixes and more content. I'm mostly PvE player, but I'm looking forward to making some PvP chars.

About my vision of game? More hardcore: less ammo, less guns, less resources. Equipment should be hard to obtain, ammo craften in low quantity (like 5 9mm bullets, not 50) so people should use it only in really tough fights. More unarmed & melee, stuff limited to medium range: the best gun should be assault rifle and best armor is metal armor. Of course game should have plenty of others items (crappy armors maded from junk, jackets reinforcer with metal plates, one-shot guns etc.). And limited HP level so everyone could get killed with one lucky shot or stab.

[Heckler Spray]

Ok, Halolasima, let's try something a bit more simple :


PvP character only:

+ you have more chance to win during a real fight, most of the time you can easily kill an average character, you can take the more intesresting battle perks.
- it's hard to XPing to the 21st level, you can't do all the quests, you can't craft, you can't trade.

Average/crafter... character :

+ you can do most of the quests, it's a little bit easier to get XP, you can trade, you can craft.
- you're not the best fighter, you can't take the more interesting battle perks, you can hardly win against a PvP player.

That's what I call balancing !!!  

Seriously, like I said, it's a matter of choice, you have advantages and disavantages in both cases.

[JovankaB]

Jovanka you want every char as you have ? Every char will be same, with 3 CHA. (...) you know nothing. You was doctor, you are doctor, you will be doctor.

I'm sorry but you are the one who knows nothing who I was or am. I had many characters. Practically everything from 1 CH to 9 CH. Also builds which did fine in PvP. No, I didn't have mathematically best possible chance to kill, but I was able to snipe a few hardcore PvP players. Just because you don't know the names doesn't mean I didn't try it. I have no problems with diversity, it seems like you are the one who want to have every char the same, with 1 CH. Not me.

Also I don't really like splitting the players into PvP and PvE like it was 2 different worlds. PvP doesn't have to be only quake-like fights of a few xp-farming, powerbuild-centred factions.

[Lexx]

I'm sorry but you are the one who knows nothing who I was or am. I had many characters. Practically everything from 1 CH to 9 CH. Also builds which did fine in PvP.

Shut up! You are GM, you never played the game!

Huh. :>

[Kilgore]

I laughed so much at Jovanka's post. I LOVE her stories about her brave alts (you mean that one with 40 hp? Or you had dozens of alts? I recognise one doc char, one thief, one small gun sniper - still it was 2 wipes ago, so wtf? Oh and also you mentioned sth about your mighty throwing char) killing hardcore PvP players. Sounds good!

Now let her decide how PvP should look:

PvP doesn't have to be only quake-like fights of a few xp-farming, powerbuild-centred factions

    

It will be always like, that, because:

1. You are too slow for RT so you call it quake.
2. As I stated before, players will always find a way to exp their PvP builds quickly.
3. This game was supposed to focus on factions.

[Attero]

the reason they call it quake is - mindless killing without thinking - basicly yo try to take down as many as you can before you die yourself . then you res no penalty and run back to the fight...

[Kilgore]

Negative, sir. That's how YOU would play PvP, Mr. Mindless. And maybe that's the reason why you fail at it and call it "quake". Simply, you don't understand it. In fact, avoiding getting killed while killing others effectively requires more than sitting in your cave and crafting. I'm so sorry, sir. Maybe just try harder?