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[Sius]

No, we don't like the option of finding one easy to level critter and that being ridden to 21 in no time at all. Killing critters needs more critter classes and better base xp for them.

One is a technical issue and one will hopefully be done before too long.

Why don't you make diminishing exp rather "player lvl vs critter lvl" based than decided by number of kills? Its nonsense not be be able to level up on critter that you have killed more than 10 times. Imho it should work like this:

Leveling up will be the most effective when player kills critters that have the same or similar level as him. When he do so he will get 100% exp no matter how many critters he kills. But when he will kill critters that are significantly below/above his level he will get lesser exp (for above its to eliminate higher lvl player boosting lower lvl friend). So greater the difference between players and creeps level is, smaler portion of exp player gets from such creeps.
This will require many changes in current creep system. Creeps should be level based meaning we could encounter lvl 1 rats but also lvl 6 rats. Distinguished from each other by their model size, contour color, skin color, additional graphic elements (possible more or less only with 3d models). This would mean we won't have only 1 kind of creep but also additional sub-kinds of the same creep leaving players wider choice of their prey. Also something like tough creeps could be implemented. It should be something like "elite" version of their kind so something like deathclaw mother/extra strong molerat etc. They should reward player with more exp and in some cases even some items near their nests or something. Also some easter egg creeps could get implemented to special encounters (Many-as-one rat from PST, Ian from original game etc...). But my point is to make leveling fun and not so time consuming for PvP chars.

With this system it could look somehow like this: You create your char, you will have to get yourself a tent or base asap, then it will require some ammo/weapon to get in busyness. When you have some you could start killing creeps for exp. At the beginning pretty much anything will do the trick since low lvl creeps are common. But at higher lvls you would have to search for creeps that are near your level = you won't have easy exp but income will be stable. Also if you decide to go killing some centaurs/floaters/aliens/fire geckos right from the beginning then you will fail hard. Those creeps would give you only small portion of base EXP if you are like 3+ levels under their level. So your EXP income could be pretty much balanced since rate "exp gained from creeps : exp needed for next lvl" would be easy to moderate. First few levels would be easy to get, middle would require some harder creeps and better exp reward from then while low lvl creeps would give you again only small % of base exp and when you reach certain lvl it would be effective to take down some hardcore mobs like deathclaws/floaters/centaurs. And since ammo/weapon requirements would grow with each level it seems to me like the best way how to make lvling system. No easy exp yet stable income of exp, also requirements for killing creeps grow with every new level (since higher lvl = need to kill harder mobs that have more hp = more ammo used/need for better weaponry, more players to kill them etc).
And something so elemental as sharing exp between party members would help drastically.

[Flick]

More xp? But is so easy now, do you want too easy... You get xp from quest, killing, crafting and go around and avoid encounter too, i make 2000 xp for hour of play. Do you really want become 21 in only a few days?

[Sius]

More xp? But is so easy now, do you want too easy... You get xp from quest, killing, crafting and go around and avoid encounter too, i make 2000 xp for hour of play. Do you really want become 21 in only a few days?

210,000/2000 = 105 hours. And you counted in also quests/crafting that is restricted for PvP chars. For a man with family or simply busy guy its not possible to play 24/7. Lets say I will spend 3 hours per day ingame (even when thats way more than I'm able to sacrifice for games). With your "fast" exp its 35 days of leveling up until I'm able to have some fun with my char. Now what if someone could spend only 1 hour, 2 at the most? 2238 is here for about some 8 months so far with 3 wipes. So based on that wipe comes every 3rd month. So some people will spend 1/2 of the whole season time just to get to a point when they will be able to have fun? Thats like WTF?!

I don't want to level up 21 in few days. I want leveling up to be fun. But without more content (which is not done over night) the only way how to make that happen is faster exp or at least stable income or SOMETHING. Current game state absolutely don't support solo or casual gaming and thats what this is about, so if you don't read the topic then don't post to it.

[Izual]

With your "fast" exp its 35 days of leveling up until I'm able to have some fun with my char.

Looks ok for me, also note that you can have fun even if you're not level 21 ! Yes sir, try it !

[Surf]

Looks ok for me, also note that you can have fun even if you're not level 21 ! Yes sir, try it !

But you're no hardcore combat machine before!! :p

[Sius]

Looks ok for me, also note that you can have fun even if you're not level 21 ! Yes sir, try it !

Enlighten me then. As I've asked many times: What do you do to have fun ingame? How do you spend your time?

And as it was stated before you can have fun if you enjoy certain activities, but again there are people that simply don't enjoy "passive" activities and they want adrenaline and action. They should suffer just because they like something else than others? Also when you compare PvP and PvE characters then PvE crafters or average guys don't need to reach 21 lvl so badly as PvP chars. Crafters can have all what they need maxed at mid levels, same goes for SPECIAL requirements that I've mentioned earlier. But PvP has its own specific rules and if you want to join and enjoy it (and not only die all day long), you have to meet certain requirements to do so. And thats 18+ lvl, good gear, good build, good tactics and team etc. But crafters can master their goals at 12th lvl. They don't need to be 21 in order to craft those best items. If they were I guess this thread would look completely differently...

[Izual]

True, true. However, you say that PvP players can only fight if they are level 21, otherwise they would die too often [against other players (PvP)]. But if everyone has hard time in reaching level 21, then all PvP players will be around level 15, not level 21, and then they will fight between mid-powerbuilds, not between full-powerbuilds. It's exactly like in OBT2 ; most of the players were around level 20, but there were still some players level 60 that were sometimes showing up with their 600hp. I guess it's quite the same here.

But crafters can master their goals in 1/2 of leveling up. They don't need to be 21 in order to craft those best items. If they were I guess this thread would look completely differently...

Yup, but remember game is still in development.

[Surf]

Not every player is on 21.. And I didn't know that pvp is only restricted to town control? If you want to pvp before reaching 21, why not offering yourself as q "merc" for example, offer protection foor noobs when they want to visit qn unguarded mine etc, just be a bit creative qnd you will have fun without being passive all the time as you say..

[Sius]

True, true. However, you say that PvP players can only fight if they are level 21, otherwise they would die too often [against other players (PvP)]. But if everyone has hard time in reaching level 21, then all PvP players will be around level 15, not level 21, and then they will fight between mid-powerbuilds, not between full-powerbuilds. It's exactly like in OBT2 ; most of the players were around level 20, but there were still some players level 60 that were sometimes showing up with their 600hp. I guess it's quite the same here.

Everyone has same hard time reaching 21 but nolifers will do it in less than 1 week no matter what. Then if we want to play with them we have to get into the same sand-pit as they are. You see now its like casual gamer is doing some sand cakes but dedicated guys build sand castles. Thats what I don't get why don't you try to change it. No lifers will be here no matter what you do. Sure, but for regular guy it is just nightmare to do some PvP right now. Again and over again: When there is some content that would keep us busy then OK, it will be fun to play. But now its not fun at all because we have to do boring stuff and worst part on it, we have to repeat that boring stuff like million times to be able to stand a chance against others.

Yup, but remember game is still in development.

Precisely! Why don't you then change leveling up into something more reasonable and little more fun for everyone rather than satisfy just certain groups of players? Whats so bad at being able to level up faster, create alternative and experimental builds and test them all? Were there some radical flaws because of this during season 1/2 so you had to change it or you just want game to become "longer"? If its just because you feel need to have game that is not 1 week job, then of course, its reasonable but only when the game has something to offer how to fill that time! We are not there yet so for god sakes why do you make it so boring?!


Edit:

Not every player is on 21.. And I didn't know that pvp is only restricted to town control? If you want to pvp before reaching 21, why not offering yourself as q "merc" for example, offer protection foor noobs when they want to visit qn unguarded mine etc, just be a bit creative qnd you will have fun without being passive all the time as you say..

Man have you ever played this way? How could people who camp mining sites be any different from those who will stand against you when you try to take over town? Have anyone from those who say that there are means how to enjoy game as low lvls PvP build ever done something from what they say its possible to do? You say we can have fun but when you say how then its something that simply does not work in this game or you better don't say anything. You only try to shut us up with that there are ways how to entertain yourself and thats it.

[Surf]

why do you make it so boring?!

It's not the devs fault if you decide to just lay a hand on just one part of the game. "The way is the goal", try out a few possibilities the game offers, be creative as said, make low or midgame pvp somewhere else and when finally reaching 21 you can take part of "endgame pvp" like the TC. Actually, it's not that different as in other MMOs ...

[Roachor]

Powerhouse combat machine? Some builds can't even put points into combat until later on for perk reasons, I'm lvl 10 and my energy weapons skill is only at 102. It was a bitch to grind up to that solely with quests too.

[blahblah]

No, we don't like the option of finding one easy to level critter and that being ridden to 21 in no time at all. Killing critters needs more critter classes and better base xp for them.

Can we get what Sius said about critter levels and also have experience gained based on critter HP?

Also, since this is beta, why not give people like Sius, who say they don't have time, a level 21 char and be done with it? Everyone else will just do it the old-fashioned way.

[Lexx]

I wouldn't say you're really using them. There aren't any dungeons or group pve areas, even if there were the only benefits are xp and gear which are both found everywhere. There's no incentive to do anything but pvp in groups.

If you don't do any quests, you are right. And this will never change.

If you do quests, you are wrong, as I nearly always use instanced maps for them, as it leaves the most free room for storytelling.

[Roachor]

If you don't do any quests, you are right. And this will never change.

If you do quests, you are wrong, as I nearly always use instanced maps for them, as it leaves the most free room for storytelling.

I've done all the quests several times and the closest thing you guys have to an instance is killing rats and dogs, not exactly thrilling gameplay. The best designed missions I've seen in game so far are the ones for joining the raiders, but even that was brief and once you join it doesn't progress anywhere.

[Lexx]

This matters like so much:

...


You wrote that FOnline doesn't have instanced maps / zones, I proved you wrong.

It's pretty much a pvp only game, any mmo's that doesn't have pve instances can't really be anything else.

FOnline: 2238 is using instanced maps / zones as well.