fodev.net
Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => General Game Discussion => Topic started by: Eraus on January 14, 2012, 12:04:26 pm
-
Sneakers are cool, but that insane dmg givien by silent death perk with SMGS is too much. With my alt was farming tabacco leafs was hit 1k form 1 hex, 975 form one hex, 295 from maybe 5 hex dunno even didnt saw my killer. I know that motion sensor will help a lot, still if u want farm u must spend ap, its clear opportunity to sneaker to kill the target. I know its alt without good gear and toughness perks, still to me it looks if I would have Ba 2 toughness I still would be one shooted. So my personal opinion too much dmg without effort and cant farm thing even with my main(maybe its possible but very risky)
What do you think? Maybe you they are well balanced now or terrible mistake?
-
'Silent' and 'burst' ?
I don't think this was a good move, I for one wouldn't cry if it'd be removed.
-
I think the whole crying thing about one critical burst is getting a bit much. Didn't we use to have crit bg bursters prewipe? who had a 1/4th chance for insane damage (or was that preprewipe?)? You didn't whine then. but now when you are standing around as a bluesuit mining you whine that somoene kills you from behind (or collecting tabacco).
in the originals post case. it might aswell have been a sniper with a simple hunting rifle that could have killed him. when you walk around with no gear and get killed very easily, why are people suprised and angry? it's the same thing with hh, people die once while having no gear. and suddenly they refer to hh being overlords who cannot be beaten by anyone and immidiently needs to be nerfed.
I say, let this play out for some time. see what happens, what when people start using proximity sensors? how will that go? Don't nerf anything till you have seen it in action for quite some time. factions, and people are still developing. Because of this there is no true balance of power yet. and no one knows or can know what is OP and what isn't.
-
Farming with bluesuit you don't risk anything! Thank god there are sneak bursters.
I think I'm going to make sneak burster myself, and burst bluesuits with stupid metagaming names like "FarmAltModoc" or "BarterHub".
As long as you would have normal name and a jacket, you would be safe.
Wasteland should be harsher for alts. There must be balance in the nature.
-
SD is obviously OP, but it's my favorite thing in FOnline now. You can Rambo kill everyone. Just go to BH and burst chosens! That's fun, they can't do anything to you, even if they buy militia... pff, burst it - no more militia! Also if you need someone die in NCR, you'll make him dead 100% and nothing will help him. That's fun perk and the only thing that can stop SD sneaker is another SD sneaker, everyone else for you are just meatbags or target practice.
-
Pff u didnt read my all post or what? Im not saying that he are able to kill my bluesuit. Im saying that silent killer with smgs can kill 24 lvl guy in one shot with BA(just guessing), still you must fight that sneaker with full equipment and for what reward? 10mm smgs? I didnt played much pre wipe season so dunno about those big gun sneakers, maybe I got killed one time but he had minigun not lame smgs and u can do big gun sneaker here too with 25% crt but why would u do that? And yes later I think I will do sneaker too to have fun. And yes they must be tested in time, im not saying nerf them now.
-
Pff u didnt read my all post or what? Im not saying that he are able to kill my bluesuit. Im saying that silent killer with smgs can kill 24 lvl guy in one shot with BA(just guessing)
Maybe you should take the risk, or gather item with a friend.
I have seen people farming tobacco with a sneaker backup. I think it's pretty cool.
Remember no cooldowns now so you don't lose that much time even if you die.
-
It's just mistake to make stealth based character that strong. Just remember how PvP servers looked back when WoW had world PvP (later killed by introduction of flying, eh).
It's even bigger mistake to let them use entry gear to already dominate best possibly obtainable gear (aka instakilling BA with 10mm smg).
But it's also mistake to nerf so early without proper testing :d.
-
It's just mistake to make stealth based character that strong. Just remember how PvP servers looked back when WoW had world PvP
I played rogue once, was fun but I didnt one shot anyone :D...anyway
I dont care about tabacco at all, I get it when I get it, but I cant teach that sneaker a lessen with my main, thats frustrating, need to have sneaker by myself(and I think I will make it). Maybe it will be fun to play mouse cat/cat mouse, but every other builds will suffer from what I have seen...
-
Cool. We gonna have Tekken fights (uber HtH char) and Ninja fights (uber sneakers) in a smurf world (they are all in bluesuits).
Welcome to FOnline.
-
Not that rogues were one-shot killing anyone, they just killed in stun things that rendered opponent completely harmless (back in original game there was no way to get rid of those stuns for almost every class), but that's not the point.
Point is that you can always choose whenever and whoever you want to fight, and mostly what you give up is just defense (same for rogues), but that is also the thing you need the least with those tactics.
It sucks a little in mass fights, but it's by no way useless, it just requires some skill or brain to do well, unlike brainless stalking. It's almost never fun to search for them anyway, as mostly they can only be revealed when they do mistake.
-
Told ya (http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=19929.0)
A feature, that cant be defended against is not a good feature.
-
This is ridiculous, NOTHING on this game come anywhere as close to the massive damage potential of this perk, nothing absolutely nothing. Given how sneak got substantially boosted its easier than ever to sneak upon someones back and end his life its just bad I certainly do not approve this.
-
Sneak was buffed to much , perk isn't the real problem.
but i guess because of this much whining it will be nerfed or deleted.
-
Burst working on SD was actually a bug and not intended. It just seemed like it could be a fun experiment to let it work and see what happened.
I still think it should be perfectly possible to defend against - to disagree with Sarakin, but we shall see.
Don't nerf anything till you have seen it in action for quite some time. factions, and people are still developing. Because of this there is no true balance of power yet. and no one knows or can know what is OP and what isn't.
This is exactly what will be happening, let the counters to the counters of the counters develop first! ;)
-
So anyone not using a 10 PE Hawk eye character or spamming the motion sensor is like swimming on a shark infested ocean, just waiting for one to take a bite at you and you wont even know it. And the worst part... It only takes 1 bite.
Oh and was johnny pointed it out, add the fact all you need is entry gear to pull it out... TC Influence will be about controlling a ghost town.
-
C'mon, it is only a bluesuit, once desneaked it can be killed easily. The idea of a silent assassin is quite nice. So far I got killed only with rockets or lasers but guess what, not a single death caused by a sneaker having this silent death perk. Even in towns like NCR, Hub and others I am more afraid of regular sg bursters with 3x brd which is (for your trader alt) instakill, from one-hex obviously.
In pre-wipe I couldn't kill anything with my sg sneak except other sneakers. I couldn't even kill a damn sniper with 144 hp in a BA. I highly doubt this perk will allow you to kill double toughness psycho guy with 250hp+ so I see no point in deleting/nerfing this perk. Also, many builds will become useless if devs decide to change this perk.
-
10mm SMG is not entry level gear, by the way.
Having one person in a group with 10 Pe + SS, or one person with a motion sensor guarding, or even just going in a small group. These things stop one person ambushing you.
-
But this by no way make perk useful enough for anything that can't burst, be it knife or pistol if anything.
-
Ok counter case scenario, Your little group with both hawk men and sensor guy suddenly gets hit by a rocket, now theres another group ready to fight and people scramble to look out for the agressors, I think hawk men will have enough on his hands by looking out for the agressors and sensor boy will be busy bursting a nearby sneaker to have the other sneakers EASILY reach their desired targets and take them out NO SWEAT because DESNEAKING that bluesuit happens to be a colossal achievement for any non hawk build.
And 10mm SG IS ENTRY gear as far as PvP means, I have well around 30 of those guns in my tent and I have dismantled way over 50 now
-
Johnny, I don't think that's true either. You can use situational bonuses to get decent sneak and use SD on a crit build who hasn't sacrificed his entire perk tree on sneak. A 100% crit first shot into the head could still be useful, especially if its done by a char who won't fold like a piece of paper after the initial attack.
-
And 10mm SG IS ENTRY gear as far as PvP means, I have well around 30 of those guns in my tent and I have dismantled way over 50 now
These were gained before I removed them from the easy encounters, I'd expect.
Ok counter case scenario, Your little group with both hawk men and sensor guy suddenly gets hit by a rocket, now theres another group ready to fight and people scramble to look out for the agressors, I think hawk men will have enough on his hands by looking out for the agressors and sensor boy will be busy bursting a nearby sneaker to have the other sneakers EASILY reach their desired targets and take them out NO SWEAT because DESNEAKING that bluesuit happens to be a colossal achievement for any non hawk build.
Now you have added more to just one guy bursting from sneak. Now you have team based tactics, which is exactly what the perks were meant to create!
It gives a reason to form small groups and have different niches and work together, not just in TC or PvP fights, but gathering, crafting, etc.
Ofc, I don't say SD is not OP or it is, I know its too early for these statements.
-
Oh and was johnny pointed it out, add the fact all you need is entry gear to pull it out... TC Influence will be about controlling a ghost town.
You could think people doing TC will be able afford motion sensors.
-
Ok but you still havent answered me, once a fight finally breaks loose, Sensor guy and Hawk men wont be able to relay everyone the positions of sneakers, actually hawk men will surely be hit first (guy wearing a sniper rifle is an open invitation) and Sensor guy will be real busy by himself. This game is fast paced and the one class that has always benefited from sudden an unexpected moves have been the sneakers, saddly now they are mostly invisible but to a few tools and they can now instantly kill you if you fail to find them.
While not a flawless build indeed, its just too much advantage its just ridiculous, Im ok with a sniper taking a shot from afar and automatically rolling a critical, thats fine with me, because that critical will hardly ever be insta kill, because that critical can be healed and at times even shrugged off completely, and besides snipers have always been more tactical than invisible predator rambos (Right ravenous?)
-
Well, we are getting into a silly level of detail for a general point now, once we are getting into team dynamics there will always be options. I don't think the central point even in this thread is that SD will dominate team PvP because teams should be able to either use the trick themselves or guard against it.
We were talking about being ambushed by one person without any defence, which is countered pretty easily by having one extra person come along with you.
-
Well, if you put it that way, SB still needs a nerf. If the only condition for it to crit is "you must shoot enemy back", then actual PvP would be very awkward. People tend to run forward, shoot, run back, etc. Moving around is constant, so if you just wait for the enemy to turn around and shoot him then you get a crit? Is that so? Well, that's definitely broken. Easy balance would be adding "no combat" status in the conditions, i.e. the perk applies if you shoot enemy's back and you are not in combat. Maybe even have to be sneaking. I haven't tried this perk out yet so I might have misunderstood it's working principles, but if I get it right, this is what I would suggest.
-
I know pretty funny way to counter Silent Death :P
You can choose direction in which you want to look with your char by clicking with Left Mouse Button on him, but it doesn't count for sight and eye shots, so if you turn around, you will have eyes on back, so someone with SD would need to shoot you at face for it to work. I don't know if anyone understood what I meant :D
-
Quentin, you must shoot from behind and be in sneak.
-
...actually hawk men will surely be hit first (guy wearing a sniper rifle is an open invitation) ...
Why a sniper rifle? It can be almost 300 hp rocket launcher guy with max. perception and toughness. I'd like to see you killing this guy with your sneaker.
-
Quentin, you must shoot from behind and be in sneak.
Then I see no problem with this. It's actually a feature, making spotting or motion sensors viable. Spotting sneakers can be an ass sometimes, but with a tweak or two, it might become a nice feature.
-
Why a sniper rifle? It can be almost 300 hp rocket launcher guy with max. perception and toughness. I'd like to see you killing this guy with your sneaker.
By choosing to fight the guy when he cannot expect you, stealth IS that powerful to grant you this, no matter what perception or detection do you face.
Well, nevermind, we're getting into useless details, here is short list of what is happening:
Perk not being good for non-bursting sneakers as for bursting ones.
Perk allowing griefing.
Perk not being being even remotely balanced in 1 on 1 situations.
I think that solution is simple, make it better for knife/pistol guys, and add more constant and cheap solutions for sneak detection (so that you will not prowl on bazaar like a boss, and would not get close even to average perceptive quys when it's white day in desert).
Because there are some changes to stealth this update, waiting how it plays out is important. But making non-bursting sneakers good (especially melee ones, which are even depicted on it ;-o) will be required nevertheless, because the perk does not even remotely helps them as much as bursters.
-
I'd bet pretty decent money that an auto crit from a .223 pistol to the head would do consistently more damage than a p90c burst to mid tier armours+
If people are complaining about HH from sneak elsewhere (replying on surprise), then I'm going to guess its possible to surprise them using this perk using unarmed/melee too.
Way too early for posts like that with nothing backing them up.
-
I'd bet pretty decent money that an auto crit from a .223 pistol to the head would do consistently more damage than a p90c burst to mid tier armours+
Lolwhat? I'm x3 BRD, better crit and using grease guns, except for Hinkley, and if I won't kill someone with 1 burst from max weapon's range, then I'll at least KO it or leave with negative HP mostly because of tank build +Dead Man Walking and then just do regular burst to finish target (if only there're no 100500 militia chasing me at that time), because I never seen BA+psycho+max HP army of CS in BH sitting just to get influence and I'm not part of some TC faction to participate in TC, so I just kill chosens for fun at BH and not letting them get influence, as they aren't a threat for me, even with 500 HP solar scorcher militia, who dies with 1 1hex-burst too. However still I used single shots for tests on my friends, and... it's so so so underpowered in comparison to bursts, the only thing that it would save me 3 perks, so I could take lifegivers or may be even action boys or sharpshooter, etc. But still I see no reason to do head shots from SD when you can just burst your target with cheap grease gun looted from regulators and your victim won't die only if it's some BA psycho tank, but then you can repeat what you just done, and it'll die, or.. just use p90, then nothing will help your victim, even psycho and BA, as better criticals perk + SD make bursts really devastating, even with KO/KD effects. And I'm not using spray-and-pray perk, because of skilled trait, with this perk bursts would be even more devastating than now.
Return LK requirements at least for better crit and/or add it to spray-and-pray or SD, and SD sneakers will be nerfed a bit, at least they won't have 10 EN. As in Hinkley, with BA, even if someone spot me, I simply survive their burst and run away because of 10 EN. Anyway do something with better crit, may be more crit as requirement, because it's overpowered perk as all wipes before, but this session it also overpowered not only for snipers, but also for SD bursters.
Edit:
I haven't tested SD with gauss for single shooting, probably that's the only variant, because you can do these shots from 50 hexes without worrying about sensors and 10 PE SS snipers. But even .223 pistol... p90 is much better, even grease is better, a lot.
-
SD bursters are good against single enemies, but against 2+ people not so good.
I like to play as sneaker and observe people and find weak spots to exploit.
Situation 1, Fighting against 1 player
U scout and search weak spot and 1 burst.
They have better chance to survive if they will act unpredictable, Harder to find sweet spots to burst
U won quite easily.
Situation 2, Fighting against 2ppl
When u shoot once u exposed yourself and u have equal or worse chance to kill another one, depend players fighting skills and gears.
U have better chance to kill them both if u scout well or one of them wanders too away from other.
If they have decent gear and are aware of sneaks, u probably cant kill them both.
Situation 3, Fighting against 3ppl
If people have decent gears, no change to kill them. Unless they are nobs and are panicing.
Situation 4, Fighting against 1player 290 hp pvp tank alt.
U need to get behind and 1hex him, otherwise u will lose.
So not so easy.
Some facts: SD burst do imba crits but only from 1hex and behind.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9974002/Crtis.jpg
Be aware and dont wander alone, wastland is harsher than it use to be.
-
Anyway sneaker have only shitty SMG-weapons but killing guys in CA+full_stuff with 100% chance... Anyway silent death for busters looking imbalanced...
And some EXPLOIT:
One sneaker with SMG can easy kill all militia in city without any problems: militia doesn't see him.
-
But hey we gotta build a case and bring up weighted and tagged evidence this ALL deserves a nerf, really because 1 or 2 days, what im saying, since session start this has been the case for SD and bursting, some people have lagged behind on this wagon due the HTH wagon but once word gets out it will be ghost vs ghosts. This all reminds me of old FOT 10k matches, Drugged pancor sneaky bursters doing catastrophic damage because of assured critical hits. This is what happens when you get assured criticals in fallout games, you dont go for fancy shots and cripples, you gor the meaty damage and end things quick and fast.
-
Anyway sneaker have only shitty SMG-weapons but killing guys in CA+full_stuff with 100% chance
This is not true >:(
One sneaker with SMG can easy kill all militia in city without any problems: militia doesn't see him.
This not true either >:(, I wanna see how u do that
Stop posting untrue arguments for provoke people of ur own opinions.
Man, I bet u dont have experience of playing SD sneaker.
-
And some EXPLOIT:
One sneaker with SMG can easy kill all militia in city without any problems: militia doesn't see him.
This is not true >:(
This not true either >:(, I wanna see how u do that
Stop posting untrue arguments for provoke people of ur own opinions.
Man, I bet u dont have experience of playing SD sneaker.
Partially truth. If you won't be seen by others militians when you burst one, they won't aggro on you. I mean, if you'll find loner militian, you can 1hex him and then resneak, also it will work in BH really nice, as there're a lot mini-streets or you can just hide behind house's corner. If you'll burst militian at center of street where are other militians, they will, of course, shoot you. But, there're also a lot other "bugged" FoV places, for example sometimes you can stand near wall and be almost invisible even without sneak, because FoV lines won't catch you, so if militian stands near that hex, you can burst him and remain unnoticed, in BH, you can kill almost all militia that stands near walls by that bugged FoV, also in Redding, at main spawn point near casino's wall and on south-east wall of sheriff's house.
-
This is not true >:(
This not true either >:(, I wanna see how u do that
Stop posting untrue arguments for provoke people of ur own opinions.
Man, I bet u dont have experience of playing SD sneaker.
I can understood that you have some butthurt for me but saying something like "provocate etc" is not the best arguments.
SG sneaker killing militia with 5-6 deaths and comings from respawn for kill another pack of militia.
If you can't do that please dont say that another people are liars or noobs.
ps. Anyway that was not main idea of my previous post but of course it need to be fixed...
-
But even .223 pistol... p90 is much better, even grease is better, a lot.
Actually, I went off to work this out and found I had forgot to do the last of my updates, which was to single shot weapons (14mm, .223, Sniper, Laser Rifle, Magneto, Bozar and even the Red Ryder, Boosted to Mauser levels!) to make sure they kept up with the increased burst damages.
The actual stats of the .223 are better than a GG burst.
A p90c does ~50% extra damage to CA, but does fewer bypasses (which I can't be bothered to factor in) - 2*Toughness reduces this down to ~33% which I would guess is more common than the anti crit perks.
A burst from sneak is powerful, its not an auto first turn kill on a level 24 CA though.
-
A burst from sneak is powerful, its not an auto first turn kill on a level 24 CA though.
Silent death 1hex sneakburst from behind is a certain death with grease or p90. If lucky might not be vs the toughest of tanks. In addition it breaks the armor, making it good troll tool.
The ranged damagebursts are ok but onehex damage goes way off. Could help that you couldn't onehex with sneakburst because the target sees you.
-
Could help that you couldn't onehex with sneakburst because the target sees you.
The target does see you at <3hexes distance, always. If he keeps running around and changing direction, it's hard to burst him in the back.
When there's only one person, you can just tag him, burst and resneak if failed, repeat.
When there are two people, it's harder. You can get knocked out by a sniper in example.
-
I am playing a SD burster myself. What I like about it the most is that you can punish unorganized teams by picking off their team members one by one.
Imho the problem with the SD bursters is that in 1vs1 you need a fullgear tank to counter it which loses a valuable equipment in case he would die, but sneaker just goes to his tent and takes another encounter looted grease gun. Basically the sneaker risks much less than his victim.
-
Still, toughness+full armored tanks are very good counter to sneaker bursters, I sometimes couldn't even kill such one on point blank.
-
That is why the perks is called "Silent Death"
Easy way to detect sneaker: get a flamer and "spy check!!!" oh wait that's a different game ><"
-
Can't see sneaks , motion sensor or 11 PE my ass. That's kinda stupid , i liked how it was before if you had a high perception character you had a good chance of finding them , now a guy runs by my face at 15 hexes and i don't see shit so it means characters with 6-7 PE will be completely blind. Really like this silent death , but on the other hand sneak buff is retarded.
Solar wanted to make sneak useful at lower skillpoints now near maximum is just god and people still almost max sneak is it capped at 300 or not it's still really good to have max , you just don't have to rely on some stealth boys or cover or anything if maxed out.
I told solar this in CBT on IRC , he just made sneak pretty much twice as good as it was before and i'm talking about facing modifiers.
-
T-888 remember that bgs no longer need high luck so they spend their points in PE instead. If doubbleburst bg can spot sneaks easily, that sneak is goner.
I very much liked in last obt how you couldn't defeat bgs easily with sneak but they couldn't see you. You could defeat snipers easier but they could easily see you. That was good balance in my opinion. I think it should be returned somehow. Maybe the top levels of PE should give more sneak detection, you know PE 9 and 10 could give like two times more sneak detection than values under it.
Yeh sneaking is easier with lower skillpoints which is good but what's not good is that you're truly invisible with 300 sneak.
Another thing is risking: sneak 300 is free invisiblity yet motion sensor runs on batteries.
I think sneaks should have their own armor and bluesuit sneaking should be penaltized. It's a damn bluesuit, not a ghillie.
Make a sneak-suit:
Crafted with combat leather + hq electronic parts + stealth boy. Deteriorates over time when worn, repaired with mfc or SEC.
Some suggestions:
Frontal default sneak detection could be raised like 10 hex for everyone. So that no matter your PE, you will always see them from at least 10 hex in front.
-
Make a sneak-suit:
Crafted with combat leather + hq electronic parts + stealth boy.
Like your idea very much, because there is no logic when I cant see running sneaker in plain desert in front of me and this will make sneakers to spend some time or caps to get equipment before sharking.
-
This remembers me pretty much to Bad Company 2, when M60 was nerfed because it was obvious OP from the begin (like SD Bursters) but the G3 had the same statistics with lower magazine (20) and they never did anything against that because "its only useful to kill one player, then you have to reload and youre fucked up" i was god like in that game (2.6 K:D ratio) because i always made pin point shoting at more of 50m and no aim trolling at less of 50m, shit i could even turn against my oponent while getting shoted from the back and kill him.
Same way SD Bursters are OP, and it doesnt mean that they are unkilleable, but they have unfair advantages. Just nerfem now, it is not a testing feature its a genocide.
-
When I make my sniper build, enemy psychotoughness stonewall bonehead 290 hp tanks will have unfair advantages. With my low hp sniper I won't be able to kill any of them (which I could in pre-wipe) and it is a known fact from the beginning. If anything is OP in this era then BG tanks are, but I don't complain and shout nerf nerf nerf like you do. Let's give it a chance maybe someone will develop a technique to defeat them easily even 1 vs. 1 during the time, who knows.
-
Nerf BG!! 2 bursts from 35 hex and X.x.
-
This is not a thread about BG being OP or SG being UP, but about SD. Snipers never were the DPS "class" and on 1v1 scenario, they mostly lose against good BG. On the other hand, they excelled when teamed up.
Telling someone to make 290 hp psycho tank just to counter SD smg sneaker is just plain stupid. We might all end playing these tanks.
@Solar - boosting other weapons wont help SD smg bursters problem at all, actually it would do the opposite.
Also, sneaker can choose his targets to kill, he wont surely pick tanks, rather prey on weak, low hp targets.
-
I'm waiting a couple of weeks to see what happens.
If they really are a problem then there are many options to fix it up.
-
Also, sneaker can choose his targets to kill, he wont surely pick tanks, rather prey on weak, low hp targets.
And that's how it should work. He kills weak targets, like a true assassin, and can't do much against BG tanks(he usually dies, sometimes kills, that's pretty balanced).
You want to nerf Silent Death/sneakers so they won't beat anything?
Now it works kind of like rock-paper-scissors, that's how it should be. Well, actually, BGs with all their anti-crit/toughness features are more powerful than anything else, so there's still no balance.
Please understand, SD bursters have to be useful. If you nerf sneak so people can see sneakers, they will be trash because invisibility is their only weapon. If there's a group of people fighting and the assassin gets visible, it's his end. In bigger fights he can only eliminate targets that are out of their position, rushing into a group of people is suicide.
The only thing to fix in my opinion is removing the possibility to sneak in front of a person you tagged. Now in 1vs1 fights I can burst my victim and go into sneak instantly(almost), because I tagged him. Doesn't always work so well though, when my BG enemy has the reflex to punish me in the little moment im visible, and he punishes hard.
That would force us to either keep running to a corner to hide, or always try to run to point blank, which is almost impossible when the target is moving.
Conclusion: Don't whine to nerf a feature just because you died. Play in team. There's always a counter to something. Experienced players will find it.
If the feature gets nerfed, it'll probably be rendered useless.
-
Please understand, SD bursters have to be useful. If you nerf sneak so people can see sneakers, they will be trash because invisibility is their only weapon.
Sure but it shouldn't be cheap. For example lsw sneak is a drug-jack and lsw is a gun of high demand.
-
Its not about nerfing it to the ground but making it reasonable. Right now its just stupid 1shot faceroll or die build, nothing else. Maybe sd should be changed like fast shot and affect only single shot attacks (with some nice dmg bonus or something). Ninja crit strike, hide and repeat sounds much more fun then 1shot point blank burst faceroll 8)
-
Defenders of Silent Death sounds like "i just leveled up this char please dont nerf it i want to killll arghhhh, at least i can kill someone roaaar" ;D ;D ;D
-
Defenders of Silent Death sounds like "i just leveled up this char please dont nerf it i want to killll arghhhh, at least i can kill someone roaaar" ;D ;D ;D
Indeed that's true, wipe was 9 days ago and server is stable for about a week, so we just leveled up our chars. If SD gets nerfed I'll just use a BG tank and pwn everyone around. At least I'll be able to kill someone.
No, wait. BG is boring. Sneaky-map control kind of play is much more fun.
If a thread about nerfing BG/defence perks is made, and I see it coming from some posts, you'll defend BGs, and I'll repeat what you just said.
Right now its just stupid 1shot faceroll or die build, nothing else.
Not compeletly true either. I usually manage to hide and resneak after my burst, unless it's a point blank(needs to be for some cases).
Got some survivability too thanks to 10 endurance.
Sure but it shouldn't be cheap. For example lsw sneak is a drug-jack and lsw is a gun of high demand.
Now we can talk. Leave sneak and SD useful, but make it require some effort. In example, that sneak-suit idea was a good one.
-
Let's force everyone play 6 6 6 5 6 6 5 builds with speech, gambling and barter tagged:
*solves followers issues
*solves barter issues
*solves BG, SD, and other imbalances -_-
-
Floodnik you didnt reply to avv's argument. If the price of your gear, that youre using to kill similarly geared players, was the same, there wouldnt be much to whine about.
I agree with your paper-scissors-rock logic, but now it seems paper (sg sneak bursters) are wining against rocks easily, BUT scissors also have a hard time beating paper (BG doesnt have to be 290 HP, toughness psycho etc. tanks, you can have damage dealing big gunner, anticrit big gunner and so on and they will lose against sneakers)
-
I edited my post and answered.
The sneak suit idea avv posted before:
I think sneaks should have their own armor and bluesuit sneaking should be penaltized. It's a damn bluesuit, not a ghillie.
Make a sneak-suit:
Crafted with combat leather + hq electronic parts + stealth boy. Deteriorates over time when worn, repaired with mfc or SEC.
Something like this, adjusted of course for balance.
BG doesnt have to be 290 HP, toughness psycho etc.
Well not a full tank, but noone makes squishy BGs now, all of them are quite tanky.
And for a light-armored target like the sneaker, it's always easier for the BG to win but as I said, sneaker also happens to kill one, and that's how it should work.
-
The sneak suit has been suggested many times - its a good idea, but was put down to "wait for 3d". I guess we could use LJ skin or something ...
-
Not compeletly true either. I usually manage to hide and resneak after my burst, unless it's a point blank(needs to be for some cases).
Yes it is. Every 1shot faceroll scenario is just plain stupid if you take it for granted and your victim cant do nothing about it cause of your invisibility. What about BG 35 hexing you for 500 dmg every burst? Sounds ridiculous enough? Like i said, its just plain stupid. Peace 8)
-
i just wanna know how can you level up so fast to fully test this feat
i just wanna rush to my base and add all my alts in it
-
I dont like the idea of sneak-suit, because without it, you would render one skill completely useless. You dont need special items for other skills, they just give slight boosts.
-
Yes it is. Every 1shot faceroll scenario is just plain stupid if you take it for granted and your victim cant do nothing about it cause of your invisibility. What about BG 35 hexing you for 500 dmg every burst? Sounds ridiculous enough? Like i said, its just plain stupid. Peace 8)
Do you know that you go out of sneak when you enter combat? Yeah, so the sneaker bursts you(from distance its 150-200dmg), and if you don't die, you have the chance to find him and kill him. Because he won't be able to enter sneak if you see him, when the tag feature gets fixed(will it?)
And note that you need to fucking be turned back to the target for him to crit. So the BG 35hexing for 500dmg isn't a good comparison at all.
I dont like the idea of sneak-suit, because without it, you would render one skill completely useless. You dont need special items for other skills, they just give slight boosts.
You do need special items for other skills.
You need guns that belong to the small guns group, if you want to use the small guns skill.
Same with big guns, energy weapons, melee weapons.
But besides the irony, partially I agree, sneak should be useful without suit as well. It's just a matter of numbers, penalties or bonuses...
-
Defenders of Silent Death sounds like "i just leveled up this char please dont nerf it i want to killll arghhhh, at least i can kill someone roaaar" ;D ;D ;D
Haha Manero should I quote your posts from the previous season when you defended unbeatable bg tanks? And every post where you were complaining about snipers killing you easily? ;D
Another thing is that I've never seen you playing a sneaker, so... :P
-
How about a silencer that you have to mount on any smg to use with SD?
A 120 caps half broken GG won't be the weapon of choice for a sneaker if he'd need to put a silencer for 2000/5000/10000(?) caps on it.
-
pistacja, this is actually a very very very good idea and I support it. :)
-
@pistacia. That's got my vote, we already got extended magazines, scopes, and other enhancements so a silencer makes absolute sense in my opinion.
-
Silencer? Hmm. Silencer makes the weapon silent, so guy who shoots his silenced weapon doesn't notify enemies of his position. That would mean he'd stay in sneak...
That would make them even more OP, and silencer that would make the sneaker visible wouldn't be a silencer, just a magic buff that lets us do bonus damage when we have the Silent Death perk.
Silent Death is about shooting a victim who doesn't see and hear you and doesn't expect to be shot(that's why the shot is lethal), but after getting attacked already knows about the attacker.
Silencers on weapons should work different(based on the real world), they make so that the victim doesn't know where the attacker is after his move.
I think you know what I mean.
I'm for the suit. Silencer maybe, if there were no other better ideas.
-
I'm all ten for the sneak suit idea, if anything forces me to get out of those blue pyjamas - Hell Yeah!
-
i have a silent death sneaker with 35% crit chance and finesse.
there is absolutely no way for any character to survive any close range burst crit from SD. i regularly hit for 1000+ and i have -finesse-.
its clearly op and needs to be nerfed. burst needs a maximum damage cap of say 500 and then you can actually survive it with the proper gear.
as it is RIGHT NOW, NOTHING can save you from a 1 hex burst. i've taken out BA+psycho 286 hp guy in 1 burst for 312 dmg. without finesse, the damage would be greater still.
in group pvp though, solar is right when he says that aimed shots from SD are much more powerful than a burst. unless you can GET AWAY AFTER THE BURST... which is 90% of the time.
the facts: burst crits from SD do FAR too much damage. the idea is cool, but the maximum damage needs to be fixed, or at least changed so that a grease gun/10mm smg cannot crit for 500+, only t2-t3+ guns.
-
T-888 remember that bgs no longer need high luck so they spend their points in PE instead. If doubbleburst bg can spot sneaks easily, that sneak is goner.
Please , you don't have to remind me about these kind of things. I'm talking about sneak buffed to the point where even high perception is close to useless if just the sneak doesn't come closer than 20~ hexes he is safe , my opinion that is too powerful. Before wipe i used to stay from enemy at least 30-35 hexes away and even then i didn't feel safe , but at the same moment it was quite easy to sneak around if you just were a little bit patient and not stupid.
More because of these great features , ghost buffed , silent death etc. etc. i see the raw facing modifier buff for sneak unnecessary. It was ...
Front: -135%.
Front-sides: -95%.
Back-sides: -55%.
Back: -15%.
Now it is.
Front: -72%.
Front-sides: -32%.
Back-sides: -16%.
Back: 0%.
Motion sensor my ass , why the option to rely only on some item ?
-
the game was horribly about numbers before this change.
now you cannot stand around reno/gas/bh/redding/whatever with 8+guys waiting to pk every person and bluesuit that dares cross ur patth.... because now, we are there, sneaking, with SMG, waiting for you to turn your back. and we are waiting VERY VERY patient. :)
-
the fact that SD gives always max possible crit is totally f up.... its insta-death no matter what char ur playing,
why those crits are not random for f sake ? Solar have You ever played on Reqieum (longer than 1 week - in some faction, did some serious pvp there ?) ? On requiem there is that ridiculous situation that there are always 2 stages of battle - 1st stage -> pathetic sneakers war both teams launch their snekers (in bumer equl to players on TS/mumble) - side which wins bring their nromal PvP builds on field and gets advantage of having sneakers there too. Its totally boring, sick and pathetic. Wars of ghosts... almost every player on TS was complaining about this.. shit. Now we are getting here on 2238 to the same point.... Sneakers where absolutely fine last wipe. They got their very important place in whole PvP.
1 and most important - inetel/info/scouting which is very often the most important thing in the whole battle.
2 possibility to 1hex from lsw some PvP alts
3 possibility to use them as a tactical weapon - 2-4 sneakers with rocet launcher attacking at the same moment the enemy sniper line just before the rush of main forces.
now we are getting some sick ghosts wars when every char can be just killed without any chance to fight back. snekers can loose some shity leather armor and crappy weapon, regular char whole qxpensive equipemnt worth a lot of time spent ingame.
and btw its fallout sneak was ment to be used to SNEAK under enemies(npc) eyes to avoid them/sneak past them, not like some absolutely ridiculous potion of invisibility from baldurs gate!
-
I wonder if its because uncalled heavily uses target luck for its results and some of these people have dumped their luck to 1 :)
T888, that's not really a fair comparison, more changed to sneak, so facing modifiers before are not a direct comparion.
If sneak really does become a problem and everyone turns into sneakers then I think the front modifier being more harsh would be good, keep the whole sneak thing about using space well.
I did say "if" in that last sentence before either side of the argument goes mad :p
-
If sneak really does become a problem and everyone turns into sneakers
Even I started sneak burster char yesterday, if someone knew me, this alone would say something :P
Dumped it already though, I can't be bothered with leveling something that can be only used to rape people.
And I'm quite sure sooner or later you will nerf it Solar (even if you don't know it yet), so even less reason
to waste time xping...
I think bigger front penalty and not taking into account any crit table modifiers when doing SD attack
(SD critical would be completely random) would be good enough. Or maybe making grease gun weaker.
-
please just nerf this silent death greese guns smurfs...it is riddicilous that 160hp bluesuit with trash gun can easly kill 290hp ca heavy armed and armored bg with tons of ammo and guns...dealing 600-800 damage from behind is little strange...even bg with +++brd and avenger cant deal this damage from 1hex to ca tank...i know now all newbiez are happy because they can kill anyone with gun from encounter and loot 30k stuff from dead body...my solution nerf damage of silent death to max 230-280 form 1hex using p90 with silent death and better crit and brd, or just disable brust mode for silent death...in 3-4weeks when newbiez will craft/buy/loot some hq stuff will start crying "omg i lost my persious stuff killed by trash greese gunn ninja smurf" omg smurf nija just killed my 300-400hp muties with single shoot...omg wtf...omg wtf...nerf it cause we cant play...;]
this will happen soon or later...mark my words
-
If sneak really does become a problem and everyone turns into sneakers then I think the front modifier being more harsh would be good, keep the whole sneak thing about using space well.
Yes.
Some hope was born , please just think about this it's less than it was before wipe but not too much should be balanced -128% front , -64% front-side , -32% back side and -16% back. These modifiers have very big impact since sneak is capped at 300 now , you should know that.
People seem to be concerned about this silent death , just make critical bursts less powerful for silent death that way not spoiling people builds completely , just in case you nerf it :)
-
nerf from 600-900 critical damage from 5hex vs 290hp ca ++toughnes tank to 300-400 ?;D
silent death sneker is just running death finger...from 1 hex he can kill 500hp ma mk2 mercs militia with single burst. snekaer with shity greese gun just cant kill 290 hp ca tank with single non hex shoot! silend death should be good to kill solo sniper or wounded tank...nerf it...now snekaer is nabz build...
-
Criticals are always a problem seems. You bring out more anti-critical perks while at the same time introducing Another perk for sneaking, which enables brute force damage via Criticals yet again...
As Jovanka has said, it requires a nerf, somehow. I miss the Armor penalties while sneaking, too, if they are gone( not sure, heard someone say that they were wearing CA while sneaked). As well, running(while remaining stealthed) should give a penalty. Or movement in general( a lower penalty for walking, higher for running). Just ideas, I am not an expert on the subject. Seen some of it, though, and it is ridiculous so far.
-
If somehow this insane dmg stays forever, just please make that sneakers must spend same amount in "caps" in gear to kill target who spend mucho capso for their equipment. Because now if I catch that smgs sneaker he will just say: haha no problemo have another 20 smgs in my tent :).
-
Hm...at this moment i know about 2 sneakers with SD - it's me and Belmondo
smg got 20 range and -1AP to burst instead 15 range from GreaseGun, but it hard to find(afaik it's possible from VC or BH caravans)
anyway it's imbalanse
-
when you walk around with no gear and get killed very easily, why are people suprised and angry? it's the same thing with hh, people die once while having no gear. and suddenly they refer to hh being overlords who cannot be beaten by anyone and immidiently needs to be nerfed.
I say, let this play out for some time. see what happens, what when people start using proximity sensors? how will that go? Don't nerf anything till you have seen it in action for quite some time. factions, and people are still developing. Because of this there is no true balance of power yet. and no one knows or can know what is OP and what isn't.
Well said. When said no gear I mentally added "and no backup." In any unprotected area used for resource gathering you either risk it and go in alone with nothing to lose but the resources you gathered and accept the consequences of your decision or you go in with the full protection of your gang. If you have no gang get one. One silent burster isnt going to take out a whole gang. More likely they will move on to easier prey.
EDIT: I should probably point out that I have have no sneak build and have no plans to make one. Not for fighting anyway ;) So my opinion isn't biased towards sneak at all. Personally sneak is not for battle as much as it is for avoiding it and for professional thieves of course.
EDIT 2: After reading over the critics reviews of the new sneak calling it OPed an idea came to me that I think would add a cool element to the game as well as making both sides of the argument relatively happy [or not so POed] ;). Why not make more use of those little sound effects that are already in game? So that when one tries to use sneak while swinging a big SMG around at their side they are given away not by sight but by the sound of clinking metal parts. Like that sound you hear when idle and holding pretty much any gun. That would atleast give the alert victim fair warning that danger is near and take extra precautions or start running, or take some psycho, or turn around or whatever.
Would also be cool since now there is that throwing to hexes ability if we could have some kind of powder or dust or sand we could throw that would reveal anyone sneaking within the range and direction of the thrown powder. Or reduce their sneak to some extent if they are hit by the powder. Or maybe brightly colored dyes or paints or something that could be bought from tribals [they make for their war paints]. Just brainstorming.
-
Actualy, sneak as it is now, should be nerfed. Don't get me wrong. I'm not talking about sneak as OP. Rather its post apocaliptic wastland, but i didn't see any mages and demons and stuff... exept for invisibility spell(sneak), and i don't think it should be fantsy world. Explain how can a guy sneak in middle of desert without single stone or tree? I understand if he have stealth boy. But without one it should be impossible. Sneaker should stick to walls, trees. Something that can cover him. Or at least leave it as it is at night or in buildings but nerf it in daylight in outdoors. Just logical suggestion...
Say NO to magic ninja kicking you in da face at noon...
-
i agree and think stealth should only apply within a certain radius of an object, depending on your sneak skill..
it is dumb that folks can run invisible through broad daylight. this is not sneaking, that is pure invisibility.
i do play sneakers - my main is a 181 sneak cover sniper (uses +90 bonus and ghost for 270 sneak ~5 hexes of walls) along with a 271 sneak melee alt, and i can tell you from experience that sneak is overpowered, especially in conjunction with silent death.
honestly, i think silent death should have burst removed, and add in the ability for 2h rifles to be used with the perk. okay, this time im showing my bias. id really like to use SD from 40 hex with a hunting rifle. LOL.
-
Actualy, sneak as it is now, should be nerfed. Don't get me wrong. I'm not talking about sneak as OP. Rather its post apocaliptic wastland, but i didn't see any mages and demons and stuff... exept for invisibility spell(sneak), and i don't think it should be fantsy world. Explain how can a guy sneak in middle of desert without single stone or tree? I understand if he have stealth boy. But without one it should be impossible. Sneaker should stick to walls, trees. Something that can cover him. Or at least leave it as it is at night or in buildings but nerf it in daylight in outdoors. Just logical suggestion...
Say NO to magic ninja kicking you in da face at noon...
all unreal - is heritage from Fallout 1\2
-
all unreal - is heritage from Fallout 1\2
And this is not Fallout 1\2, it's FOnline - multiplayer game.
In Fallout 1\2 enemies couldn't sneak and so it wasn't so obviously silly.
-
I think that problem here is that crit bursts are too powerful, not that silent death or sneaking is. So in my opinion if something has to be changed it should not be sneak detection or ability to burst with silent death, but simply make crit bursts do less damage.
-
Some people said Silent Death crits aren't random - well they are random, Better Critical gives +20 on the roll if you took it, SD +10, and criticals still vary - sometimes I get armor bypasses, sometimes not. Sometimes I KO someone, but not always.
zato1:
Why taking finesse, more critical perks and luck when you have auto-crit already? :P
-
because pvp isn't about 1 crit from silent death and if you think it is, you're awful at this game.
-
Already told you about my vision of SD - burst and hide. Take those targets that are out of position. That's not 1 crit. Read carefully.
-
this wipe, become the game in the boring game
so sad
-
3 times from 3 i was bursted with silent death for 250+ hp
That with 2 toughnesses and 100% metal armor.
So - is death from 1 burst. But silent death sneaker build can easily made for 2 bursts.
Chance for no armor bypass is very low, so its almost always bypass.
Isn`t that perk overpowered?
-
not, that perk is for unarmed and melee characters, no for a smallgunner, wtf!!
-
not, that perk is for unarmed and melee characters, no for a smallgunner, wtf!!
It is for small gunners too, but only for pistol users.
-
It is for small gunners too, but only for pistol users.
Actually, not pistols but one handers. Description is inaccurate.
-
It is for small gunners too, but only for pistol users.
i know that!!! WTF smallguns, "silent" death, WTF!!
-
While Sneaking, if you hit a critter in the back, you will cause double damage using a HtH attack. Silent Death is just that kind of perk.
[Zoom]
double damage
[/Zoom]
There, I found a solution to all the problems with SD, and the best thing is that it makes it a bit closer to the original perk!
+10 Auto-critical can be replaced with 2x final damage.
Problem solved!
Next!
Just think about it. If a grease gun deals 20-40 damage it will do 40-80, but P90 that can do 100 dmg can deal 200 and there still a chance for a natural critical and the damage from that critical will get a 100% boost. there's still a chance to deal 500+ dmg but not with every single hit, and not with every crappy weapon.
-
i know that!!! WTF smallguns, "silent" death, WTF!!
There's no point typing this. Its a feature that we know is subject to change.
We know GG doing damage like this is probably too much and likely to change even.
What the exact extent of the problem is, or the best solution is is what threads like this are for. Type something well thought out that makes sense and you actually achieve something towards it becoming better.
What you did there was just make me ignore the content of your post.
Chance for no armor bypass is very low, so its almost always bypass.
Its actually a Luck roll. Have decent luck and you will almost never get an armour bypass (same for all bursting, not just SD)
Double damage, the easier way to achieve that would be toning down the uncalled table's damage modifiers.
Has anyone been trying normal crit bursters to see how they are doing in the new system?
-
Double damage, the easier way to achieve that would be toning down the uncalled table's damage modifiers.
I know next to zip, but if you change the uncalled table's damage modifiers that will effect (probably in unforeseen ways) all unaimed shots and hits, not only SD, whereas making SD do a hardcoded x2 final damage will affect SD only.
-
Which is why I asked about how crit bursters were doing in this version ;)
If they struggle now, then altering that table won't happen, if they are themselves very good then a slight toning down (which it would be, current mods are not too much more than doubling) would not affect them much.
-
Which is why I asked about how crit bursters were doing in this version ;)
If you have a crit, enemy is dead: 300-800 damage (800 being with JHP+bypass, but 300 being far enough to OS everyone).
-
well i thnik SD should work only for mele, unarmed and pistols (pistols= SG pistols and EW pistols ,not smgs ) so there will be no burst SD
-
Which is why I asked about how crit bursters were doing in this version ;)
Proper bg crit burster needs buffout and that isn't available as easily as before.
I did some critburst tries in cbt with 9luck 24% chance spray and pray build but had hard times getting crits done. They sure weren't every 4th burst like the chance should indicate.
-
When you try to fix it just please dont make silent death useless to anyone except bursters.
-
I did some critburst tries in cbt with 9luck 24% chance spray and pray build but had hard times getting crits done. They sure weren't every 4th burst like the chance should indicate.
Remember there are anti-crit mods on armour and perks.
-
Remember there are anti-crit mods on armour and perks.
Should have been removed by the Spray and pray perk. Anyone done any thorough testing whether or not this perk really works?
-
I think the problem lies in bypass mechanic. Having 100% armor bypassing results in insane damage that is just too random and hardly any armor helps against that. If bypasses were only f.e. 50% (and maybe raise their occurence), it might help gameplay a lot.
-
Sounds like you have really low luck
(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a309/Vorian_/Untitled-3.png)
Dumping luck will hurt against crit bursters
-
The character planner must be exploding now, as everyone is reworking their tank builds:)
Seriously though, all those requirements to counter one bluesuit with a gg add up to a hefty pile...
-
Sounds like you have really low luck
Dumping luck will hurt against crit bursters
I must be really unlucky, with 5 luck and 220 HP I died in only one burst each time a minigun/LSW/M60 crit me. And I can enjoy the 90% of instant deterioration on my weapon each time it happened and my mates managed to get my stuff back.
And the -10 crit mod of CA didn't helped much.
-
The perks name is silent death so dont complain when some one whit it will silently kill you ;) its the perks purpose
-
At least we have found why det went crazy (it didn't actually change on the wipe, which made all the complaints surprising). :)
-
Please tell me that was a joke...
-
Having 100% armor bypassing
There's no 100% armor bypassing even using Silent Death. Stop telling lies.
Maybe I should make some screens with my SD bursts and compare them to some BG bursts(non crits) and put them there.
-
Sounds like you have really low luck
Why bypasses are related to luck anyway ? I always had this feeling that it's related to ammo type as it makes more sense , but was never sure.
Player attacking me was able to bypass my high tech combat armor with the one of the most cheapest weapons ever , grease gun with some very simple bullets that aren't any armor piercing ones because i wasn't lucky enough.
ehhh ... still it means players with low luck who are some SG bursters / BG etc. won't be able to survive silent death attacks because they will get bypassed all the time and high luck characters will die to normal critical bursts as well only because they lack the raw toughness and beef that 1 luck characters usually have to survive them. It's just i have been critically bursted with SD few times on my sniper , close to impossible to survive them , as well heard that the most toughest tanks fall to bypasses. So .... oh yeah wait till these SD bursters will start to use p90 , then real hell will unleash , these all now are 10mm and grease smg's :)
Stupid feature , needs readjustment.
-
At least we have found why det went crazy (it didn't actually change on the wipe, which made all the complaints surprising). :)
Mmmh, not really, even when you don't die it deteriorate way too fast, but when dying from crit burst it's just awful. Anyway a bypass burst will always be too powerful I think. OS on a full HP tank is just nothing fun.
-
It makes no sense for anything else either. You don't use Pe to prevernt bypasses, you don't Endure past bypasses, etc.
It is the counter point to getting lucky for a critical hit, you get lucky (or infact unlucky) that bullets found a weak spot. There needed to be something to test for bypasses, else it's very restricted.
Uncalled relies on luck more than anything else, which means it is generally only a problem with SD bursting (which was not a factor when I was designing the perks or the new table, because SD working with bursts is/was a bug).
-
There needed to be something to test for bypasses
Maybe armor deterioration?
-
Something without totally re-writing how the critical table is made ;)
Luck is fine and won't change.
-
this wipe, become the game in the boring game
so sad
yeah :'(
-
It makes no sense for anything else either. You don't use Pe to prevernt bypasses, you don't Endure past bypasses, etc.
Uncalled relies on luck more than anything else, which means it is generally only a problem with SD bursting (which was not a factor when I was designing the perks or the new table, because SD working with bursts is/was a bug).
Yes , i understand.
I know it was a bug , i was the first one to make a smg silent death sneaker and reported it , i suggested for it to stay as to test how powerful it really is , at the moment it was hard to understand the magnitude of it's potential due to bugged ammo types as well of incomplete build types and lack of knowledge , i didn't know that the only defence against bypasses is luck.
It is the counter point to getting lucky for a critical hit, you get lucky (or infact unlucky) that bullets found a weak spot. There needed to be something to test for bypasses, else it's very restricted.
The problem now there's hardly any counter against SD , hardly motion sensor and stick with the group if you have anyone besides you , yet some 10mm smg still has more range than sensor reveals sneakers and let's not talk about p90 in that case.
It's illogical for silent death to stay at this state , make some decisions and change it please , i think you will make some friends in this case :)
-
I'm pondering if GG needs to be toned down or if bursts working with SD needs fixing. Yet to be convinced 10mm SMGs and p90s are a problem.
-
Damage has been done , i mean people have already made builds specially for this perk , if fixed you will just delete a good feature of a perk that can be changed and adapted made viable that way. I think it's too obvious that everyone expects a readjustment not fix and if i give it a better thought i can't find a reason why not ?
-
Can't bursts just stay how they are? Evil.
Perhaps it would be a good idea to make Silent Death single shot only. Would make the game a lot more exciting.
Question though: Does Silent Death also work with plasma pistols and grenades?
-
How about only 1st bullet o counts towards SD? Becouse you can aim first shot but rest just can't be aimed for weak spot. Rest of bullets is just "spray and pray"... So first bullet will be auto crit but others are normal with chance to crit. Not sure how it works now but you just can't get lucky with all bullets. It just never happen. Well maybe rarly... But definitly not every time you sneakyburst
-
There's no 100% armor bypassing even using Silent Death. Stop telling lies.
Maybe I should make some screens with my SD bursts and compare them to some BG bursts(non crits) and put them there.
I wasnt mentioning rate of bypasses but effect. Maybe YOU should hone reading skills.
-
It doesn't bypass 100 percent of the armour either
-
DR/5 is final bypass right ? The idea is to soften the bypass effect, no the rate.
-
magic comes back, the only problem is that all they need is a smg, if they get killed they lose nothing, make sneakers use something expensive if they want to turn sneak on. The other problem is picking up stuff, dunno how it works but should have turned sneak mode off.
also if it was up to me, I would make scanner reveal sneakers for user, this way he might shoot and cancel sneak mode
-
2x Damage == No bypass issue.
It's a clean and elegant solution with no strings attached.
-
Don't dump luck = no bypass issue. That's not what I'm worried about really.
-
Remove the ability to onehex with silent death. That's what's doing crazy damage.
Nerfing greasegun won't help because 10mm smg is right next to it. In addition grease doesn't particularly shine outside silent death bursting.
-
Remove the ability to onehex with silent death. That's what's doing crazy damage.
Nerfing greasegun won't help because 10mm smg is right next to it. In addition grease doesn't particularly shine outside silent death bursting.
10mm smgs are pretty hard to get. but if you do nerf GG then make sure you ONLY nerf it for SD. it's fine for everything else.
About onehexing, by removing that you are killing SD for hth. so you would have to make it to only not work for bursting.
Either way if we do have to nerf (bah I hate that word) then don't nerf SD, nerf the weapons that cause the problem. Grease guns are extremely easy to get and easy for sneakers to use, so you would have to either make grease guns harder to get (hurts everyone) or lessen the burst damage (hurts everyone) or you could make the greasegun specifically work less well when used in sneak.
Either way it's a pretty delicate problem because we don't want SD to become usseles, and we don't want to kick everyone in the nuts who uses grease guns.
-
Don't dump luck = no bypass issue. That's not what I'm worried about really.
That's kinda false though. 5 luck and you still get your ass kicked pretty often. 10 and you prolly won't have enough HP to survive even a non bypass.
-
Not half the time in an infrequent event.
Anyway, I guess the simple fix would be stopping ranged weapons working from 1 hex and change GG to two handed (even if that requires suspension of disbelief a little).
I'll also crank up the negative modifers for sneak a bit.
-
How about only 1st bullet o counts towards SD? Becouse you can aim first shot but rest just can't be aimed for weak spot. Rest of bullets is just "spray and pray"... So first bullet will be auto crit but others are normal with chance to crit. Not sure how it works now but you just can't get lucky with all bullets. It just never happen. Well maybe rarly... But definitly not every time you sneakyburst
I like this solution.
-
Not half the time in an infrequent event.
Anyway, I guess the simple fix would be stopping ranged weapons working from 1 hex and change GG to two handed (even if that requires suspension of disbelief a little).
I'll also crank up the negative modifers for sneak a bit.
Stopping ranged weapons working from 1 hex will allow for too easy defence against the sneaker - just rush him because his gun is useless from 1 hex... or will it only work like that if the sneaker is actually sneaking?
-
I wasnt mentioning rate of bypasses but effect. Maybe YOU should hone reading skills.
Your sentence could be interpreted in different ways. I can read text but not your mind. Anyway...
Stopping ranged weapons working from 1 hex will allow for too easy defence against the sneaker - just rush him because his gun is useless from 1 hex...
Rushing would work only for people using HtH then :P
It's an idea we need to try though, no 1 hex shooting? Would also nerf biggunners a lot.
-
To rush them you'd be facing them and it wouldn't work anyway, so not sure what your point is.
-
I mean when you rush him after he attacks. He won't have a chance if you stick to him as close as possible because he won't be able to use his weapon at 1 hex.
-
Oh right, I just meant not able to use SD from 1 hex
-
Well anyway SD don't work for melee/unarmed because you are visible - Can you make it usable when on [sneak], nothing abusable there I think.
-
I'll also crank up the negative modifers for sneak a bit.
Hm, can you explain this? For the love of god, please don't make sneaker more visible again. Now is just as should be. Pre wipe sneakers detection was ridiculous. Now you done perfect job.
-
best solution imo is like solar has mentioned, remove the silent death affect from 1hex burst,. problem solved
-
best solution imo is like solar has mentioned, remove the silent death affect from 1hex burst,. problem solved
lol, no, then it doesn't work for melee or unarmed. that would be really dumb. the solution is to change burst being affected by SD in the first place.
SD should not apply to burst.
-
lol, no, then it doesn't work for melee or unarmed. that would be really dumb. the solution is to change burst being affected by SD in the first place.
Tankboy said "remove the silent death affect from 1hex burst" how would this affect melee or unarmed? do they burst?
I see no reason why one shouldn't be allowed to burst from a distance. 1hex burst in SD is a problem so let's just disable 1hex burst for SD, it's a simple script and it wouldn't affect melee or hth because they just don't burst.
-
TIME TO GET SOME BAN XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
TROLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOOLOLOLLOLOLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOOL
lolwtfrandom
runboy, wake up, is no fun to post wille drunk
-
2x Damage == No bypass issue.
It's a clean and elegant solution with no strings attached.
agreed. 2x or even 3x damage but not more. those bypasses are way too crazy even for 20 hexes let alone 1 hex..
-
agreed. 2x or even 3x damage but not more. those bypasses are way too crazy even for 20 hexes let alone 1 hex..
I hope you only mean for bursting.
A lot of single shot users rely on a good oldfashoned bypass...
-
yeah, i meant for bursting. ;)
-
Ok, after much thought and consideration on this I think ive come up with a fix. I really like the silent death setup and I dont want silent death to change. So what needs to change is indeed the grease gun, but to be exact, the grease gun's ammo. Right now if I am not mistaken, the grease gun ammo is set to a 1/1 damage modifier with no + or - to targets DR/DT. Maybe try adjusting the ammo to be more like 10mm. Or maybe scale it down from 1/1 to 3/4 or 2/3, or just apply a + target DR value that wont completly ruin the smg. But I really think the problem is with the 1/1 dmg on the ammo, since with brd x 3 you are getting +7 dmg a bullet. So, the tl;dr of it is just to adjust the grease guns ammo to suit its new potential as a close quarters battle weapon with silent death.
And on a similar note, I just noticed .45 ammo was changed to take 2 junk now, I already have enough problems mining without a personal mine, and I feel that I better fix would be to make it 2 alloy.
Now, lets talk about standard crit bursters that use new things like spray and pray.
Ive also been working on a pure critical burster that uses assault rifle with more crits x2, brd x 3, better crits, spray and prey, and bonus rate of fire. If you want to balance pure critical burst back in so its not just destroyed by big gun bursting and SD, then give a new perk that can be taken instead of bonus rate of fire.
Here are some examples I was thinking of, they might not be exactally what needs to be done but you get the idea.
Example: Violent Death - You love a real horror show. Your attacks with 2 handed small guns have an added 10% Critical chance and +10 on critical table. You also ignore targets DR by 5%. - This might be a little over powered for snipers though, but im not sure yet.
Example: Eagle Eye - You think you've seen it all in the wastes? Well, now you have. With Eagle Eye, you gain the ability to detect sneaking foes within 15 hex. You also ignore targets body armor effects if they have sneak up. - Might be over powered, but it would give pure critical burster an edge in tc vs silent death, so long as this perk works for assault rifles only pretty much.
But yea, just trying to give some constructive input, I really love this game and I just want it to be fun for everyone playing. If anyone has any other ideas on how we can keep these builds without breaking perks and making people remake then post it up!
-
<...>
Having one person in a group with 10 Pe + SS, or one person with a motion sensor guarding, or even just going in a small group. These things stop one person ambushing you.
Sneakers can also gang up, you know?:)
We were playing with a friend and SNEAKERS CAMP EVERY SINGLE UNGUARDED TOWN! The two of us with normal characters could sometimes kill one sneaker (one of us would die in the process), but against 2 or 3 sneakers there's absolutely nothing you can do. And that's not something you could fix with a grease gun nerf...
Rerolling into sneaker until this gets fixed...
-
Even if silent death didn't exist, you two guys would be killed by 2-3 lsw sneakers anyway. So what bothers you? That you don't see them or that they don't lose as much stuff as you?
-
Wont be long kelin until wealth starts flowing and those sneakers upgrade to LSW, Ghost town fights of automatic-sniper insta killing ghosts... Reminds me of FoT so much, too bad though in FoT you had a timer to pull this off (namely the minutes the drugs last) here though, its just you and good old patience for the kill
-
Wont be long kelin until wealth starts flowing and those sneakers upgrade to LSW, Ghost town fights of automatic-sniper insta killing ghosts... Reminds me of FoT so much, too bad though in FoT you had a timer to pull this off (namely the minutes the drugs last) here though, its just you and good old patience for the kill
Right, because Silent Death works with two handed weapons..... ::)
-
It doesnt? Well thats my bad then. Lets stick with p90c then, the deathrange is ... surprisingly 25 hexes. Not true sniping but good sharpshooting nonetheless...
-
Even if silent death didn't exist, you two guys would be killed by 2-3 lsw sneakers anyway. So what bothers you? That you don't see them or that they don't lose as much stuff as you?
You know the answer, it's both:) But now I'm just saying that this kind of character is quite easy to make and that it's becoming really popular. In several hours of playing in different northern cities, we've met 1 character without sneak and 7-8 sneakers... If it's going to be ghost towns full of sneakers, then it's not exactly fun.
-
Even if silent death didn't exist, you two guys would be killed by 2-3 lsw sneakers anyway. So what bothers you? That you don't see them or that they don't lose as much stuff as you?
It's not that simple , first of all sneakers wouldn't be so popular if there wouldn't have been so much changes done to them and yes it's quite annoying that even one of the most cheapest and easy to get weapons can take down the most toughest of characters in game with one burst , silent death or other name for the perk it still doesn't change the fact the feature needs readjustment , it's unbalanced. If only you would read at least most of the topic before starting to ask stupid questions and used some common sense.
-
its not SD that is not balanced if the person using SD will not be able to 1 hit kill the target it will not make any sense picking the perk, sneak is the thing that makes it unbalanced, there should be a way to fend off sneakers, and I would rather nerf the sneak than make lets say motion scanner better ( not everyone can afford one ), the question is how much sneak should have been nerfed to keep people using their sneak alts and make it balanced.
-
its not SD that is not balanced if the person using SD will not be able to 1 hit kill the target it will not make any sense picking the perk, sneak is the thing that makes it unbalanced, there should be a way to fend off sneakers, and I would rather nerf the sneak than make lets say motion scanner better ( not everyone can afford one ), the question is how much sneak should have been nerfed to keep people using their sneak alts and make it balanced.
I think SD purpose to do crt hit with aimed shot from behind, not to one shot everyone...I made unarmed sneaker character, im using power fist, have 240 skill points spend in sneak, and oddly I cant do a shit, because enemies say they see me from 10 hexes, and its hard to impossible to land SD with power fist, dont have stealth boy now(dunno where to get) maybe it will help, so if sneak will be nerfed, chars like my would be complete worthless(of course its my responsibility, I made him that lame). So when nerfing something need to have in mind that this will not only can fix OP thing, but in same time make weak even weaker.
-
you cant nerf sneak itself,. that would make hth / meele unable to use SD, and dont forget that sneak has a counter allready, high perception characters.
Eraus, 240 sneak is way to low, for a meele / hth sneaker that is gona use SD u need 300
i have been playing a lvl24 sg Sneak burster for a few days now,. and only problem i run into is snipers,. they seem to detect me from 10-15 hex even with my 300 sneak. i just get shot in the head and loose my sneak.
there is no question about that 1hex SD burst is op or not,. i shot a guy for 1014 dmg today,
even normal 1hex burst from grease gun is awsome,. and sneak gets you into range, atleast when there is no high perc character arround.
hth / meele chars saying they cant use SD : your doing it wrong , if i can 1hex Sd burst some, you should be able to aswell,. specially with a sledge or a spear wich has 2hex range.
a good start would be , like solar mentioned - remove Sd effect from 1 hex burst, and then talk about SD burst from range is op or not, i dont think so myself atm, but i need to test it more.
-
dont forget that sneak has a counter allready, high perception characters.
Hahah what? I use a 10 percep sniper and a sneaker can easily sneak up from behind and appear outta know where after he gets 3 hexes next to me... I think sneak should be like it was before wipe so there wouldn't be one hex bursting(especially with silent death.)
-
keyword : sneaker can easily sneak up from behind
sneaking up on someone from behind has allways been the way to go right? why dont you be more ready and counter them by
a) stand with your back up against a wall?
b) keep moving ( will help vs 1hex burst )
c) team up and look both ways
thats all i can think of for now, but i bet there are allot more ways to counter sneakers.
-
I bet there are allot more ways to counter sneakers.
Motion Detector?
Also, Flashlights would be a good thing.
I saw graphics for what looked like directional lighting during the Wipe Madness in SF.
Maybe get a gun-mounted flashlight.
Throw flares?
But they are rare.
-
Even if silent death didn't exist, you two guys would be killed by 2-3 lsw sneakers anyway. So what bothers you? That you don't see them or that they don't lose as much stuff as you?
Well, getting LSW is not as easy as GG. And most impoortant: LSW sneakers rarly one shot. Before wipe LSW sneakers where doing 50-100 dmg from range. Now SD sneakers are doing 200-300 dmg from range. Do you see a difference?
The thing is LSW sneakers deserve to POWn cause they use expansive high tier weapons and you stil have a chance against them.
SD sneakers are powning with chipest gun starting level 15 without any chances to survive them (except if they are complitely noob or you outnumber them 2 against 1)
Reroling SD while waiting for SD burst nerfing
-
It seems it's been dealt with. In Your Face perk works with bursts now.
-
It seems it's been dealt with. In Your Face perk works with bursts now.
I'm not sure that's going to be enough :-)
-
Oh, if that is the case with in your face then awsome. I think ill take that on my traditional critical burst AR build so I can stand up to a failed sneak attacker. Cool.
-
In your face isn't the solution, a ranged burst can still deal an insane damage.
-
I don't want this to look like whining, but this is what happened to me:
I was killing centaurs/floaters/aliens with M60 for XP in the desert near Lost Hills (in TB). I saw two guys enter the encounter while in combat; I killed one of them because he looked threatening, and let the other leave because he didn't. After the fight ended, I walked to the pile of items that the first one left behind when out of nowhere a SD burster appeared, dealing 500+ damage to me with a Grease Gun. And it wasn't a onehex as far as I recall.
Now, my character is built to be as resilient as possible: 242 hp (going to be 287 as soon as I get third lifegiver), double toughness, stonewall, man of steel etc. With all my perks spent on survival, shouldn't I survive at least one burst?
As for the perk.. it's Silent Death. How are bursts silent?
-
As for the perk.. it's Silent Death. How are bursts silent?
Silent is the person BEFORE he bursts an unexpecting victim in the back.
-
This perk should affect only single shots, not bursts. I hope Solar will nerf it(because its needed) and destroy your fun ;)
-
looks like he already fix it...not sure (when I playing by sneaker there is no more 300+ damage for CA toughned views).
But if it will works only on single shots this perk must give +20-30 to critroll chance.
-
Again, don't tell me this perk is overpowered, yesterday I bursted ~130 hp SoT twice (critburst 100 hp + regular 30 hp) and he managed to survive.
-
Now sneakers work normal. Most problems from them-for bluesuits in guarding cities...
Heavy-handed unarmed are more big problem on this moment...
Ps. Anyway there are a lot of hard bugs with TC and some perks that need to be fixed...
-
looks like he already fix it...not sure
So how was it fixed?
-
So how was it fixed?
For example now biggunners don't dying in 1 burst...
-
Need to know egzactly what was changed?Maybe only Grease gun ?
-
Maube...but now it work normally...
-
So im seeing smaller numbers with SD, I also did a crit burst from the back and it did not crit, pretty sure I was positioned directly behind the npc, could be a bug? I don't want to ruin my sets of armor to test, but I feel like now SD has been turbo nerfed. Big guns guy with in your face and quick recovery can now stand up to SD hth and bursters so why make anything else? If I don't like the way its changed can an admin take away my silent death and sg skill and replace it with bg skill and a different perk?
-
So im seeing smaller numbers with SD, I also did a crit burst from the back and it did not crit, pretty sure I was positioned directly behind the npc, could be a bug? I don't want to ruin my sets of armor to test, but I feel like now SD has been turbo nerfed. Big guns guy with in your face and quick recovery can now stand up to SD hth and bursters so why make anything else? If I don't like the way its changed can an admin take away my silent death and sg skill and replace it with bg skill and a different perk?
That already work nice, don't worry :)
I wrote about that bursters some time before, but now (after some fix) that works normally.
It's painfull only for some bluesuits or really noobly players, so that's ok now.
-
^ What?
But yea, there should be an NPC in the game that allows level 24 players to respec their guy. It would prevent alot of madness when things happen that make people have to make new characters.
-
So im seeing smaller numbers with SD, I also did a crit burst from the back and it did not crit, pretty sure I was positioned directly behind the npc, could be a bug? I don't want to ruin my sets of armor to test, but I feel like now SD has been turbo nerfed. Big guns guy with in your face and quick recovery can now stand up to SD hth and bursters so why make anything else? If I don't like the way its changed can an admin take away my silent death and sg skill and replace it with bg skill and a different perk?
Isn't In Your Face supposed to work only with unarmed/melee? Or is it bugged?
-
Its not bugged, so no Big G will take it if they wanna use a gun.
-
looks like he already fix it
Now sneakers work normal
Heavy-handed unarmed are more big problem on this moment...
Silent Death got "fixed", so now Heavy Handed needs to be "fixed".
Everything needs to be "fixed" so BGs would win 100% of the fights against unarmed or sneakers.
Fix everything please, make BGs pwn everything because that's how it should work! Everyone play BG! Yay!
The respec guy idea is very good, we could all change to BG apes instantly and not waste time leveling it(those who were BGs from start had the advantage, because they could exploit nade bug exping their BGs, while we were wasting time exploting nade bug exping our unarmed heavy handed/SD sneakers).
Anyway, quitting the sarcasm, I wonder if devs do tests and think about the game themselves besides only listening to only-BG-should-pwn noobs' whines.
If there was no nerf though, sorry, it's a misunderstanding(need to do some testing myself).
NINJA EDIT:
Yeah quick tests done, I don't really see much nerfing, camping Big Gunners still being punished hard(unlike those that do some thinking, they pose a threat), although I sometimes see that SD doesn't trigger even in the back but it's rare and OK for me.
-
Funny, I tried to SD an unarmed guy and missed from 1 hex, he pulled out a minigun and owned me before I could actually hurt him with a burst. So whoever said that in your face isnt viable for BG guy, then you are thinking of a sneak BG guy.
-
Outside of in your face being fixed to work properly, there's not been any other change with the last update.
-
Funny, I tried to SD an unarmed guy and missed from 1 hex, he pulled out a minigun and owned me before I could actually hurt him with a burst. So whoever said that in your face isnt viable for BG guy, then you are thinking of a sneak BG guy.
Yes If think better maybe IYF isnt that bad for BG guy because u can trick other bg or SD to attack u from one hex and then pull out yr gun and shoot him, still after sometime people will know that that guy have IYF and its not good to one hex bursting an unarmed guy and then IYF will be wasted perk for BG guy. My opinion.
-
You guys need to stop complaining and whining about silent death bursters they are perfectly normal and great feature of the game.
-
You guys need to stop complaining and whining about silent death bursters they are perfectly normal and great feature of the game.
Isn't this the right place for (general) game discussion?
I think it's very usefull to hear different sides to the same story.
So please, for my sake, keep discussing! (as if anyone was going to stop)
-
Any further comment from the devs? It's pretty much impossible to play in any non-guarded town right now due to sneakers...
-
Damn, toothpix you will get killed in unguarded areas anyway, no matter the silent death perk. If you have low hp, you die. If you have high hp, but weak protection, you die. It's that simple, don't blame SD as I said I wasn't able to kill 130 hp guy in good armor.
-
Damn, toothpix you will get killed in unguarded areas anyway, no matter the silent death perk. If you have low hp, you die. If you have high hp, but weak protection, you die. It's that simple, don't blame SD as I said I wasn't able to kill 130 hp guy in good armor.
There's a difference between when you can put up a fight and when you just die from a 250+ crit from distance.
Besides if you have high HP and good armor, you just die after the second burst, because the first breaks your armor:p
Make sneakers risk more, not just their smg, then it might be ok.
-
I got not even maxed SD sneaker and it can kill anyone with grease gun in one burst ;) Then its pretty imba.
It will be good when it will be like in description "pistols" not smg
-
I got not even maxed SD sneaker and it can kill anyone with grease gun in one burst ;) Then its pretty imba.
It will be good when it will be like in description "pistols" not smg
you are talking about burst from 1hex right?
that seems to be the only problem imo.
Ranged Sd bursts are not all-powerfull, they do tend to shred low lvl bluesuits tho but i see nothing wrong with that.
when shooting a tanked meeler or bg´er for example, your not gona kill them in 1 ranged SD burst, if hes drugged up on psicho and/or beer, you wont finish him with a second burst.
-
Ranged Sd bursts are not all-powerfull, they do tend to shred low lvl bluesuits tho but i see nothing wrong with that.
when shooting a tanked meeler or bg´er for example, your not gona kill them in 1 ranged SD burst, if hes drugged up on psicho and/or beer, you wont finish him with a second burst.
It's not just bluesuits, they seem to one-shot everything BUT heavily armored tank characters. Besides if your tank has little PE (from beer and psycho), you won't even see a good sneaker because they would burst from max distance, hide and re-sneak.
-
Even snipers can only see from 3 hexes back a sneaker its not hard to run into his back to 1 hex. But its still pretty wtf i killed guy on psycho+ba with 1 brust from greese gun ?
-
I wasn't able to kill 130 hp guy in good armor.
Hmmm, this is very strange! Only a noob SD burster wouldn't be able to kill a 130 guy 1 on 1. Especialy when his "good" armor was looted from yakuza shit encounter and has half deterioration ; )
You are not SD burster, are you?
-
QQ more. Get motion sensor and it's bye bye to the enemy sneakers.
-
motion sensor
How does it work? Where you can get one?
-
How does it work? Where you can get one?
I think its craftable.
-
If someone already succesfully used motion sensor against sneakers, can he/she explains where to get one (and how) and how is it working.
Here what wiki says: "Having active motion sensor (in an active slot) gives +2 Perception for the purpose of sneakers detection (it's not capped at 10)."
Wow! now you can spot sneaker from 5 hexes instead of 3. And since you will have your motion sensor in your active slot you can throw it in the sneaker and desneak him!
Siriusly, does any one can describe his succesfull using of it? in 1 on 1 fight?
-
I don't know where to get one or if it's craftable but I know I died many times because of it. I was told by the guy who was using it that he can see me at 15 hex always. 15hex is a lot, same as greese gun range so you can't even shoot. Besides usually motion sensor is used by other sneakers so you can't see them and they see everything.
-
If someone already succesfully used motion sensor against sneakers, can he/she explains where to get one (and how) and how is it working.
Here what wiki says: "Having active motion sensor (in an active slot) gives +2 Perception for the purpose of sneakers detection (it's not capped at 10)."
It's old info, now they make people within 15 hex visible, including sneakers and people behind walls.
-
Hmmm, this is very strange! Only a noob SD burster wouldn't be able to kill a 130 guy 1 on 1. Especialy when his "good" armor was looted from yakuza shit encounter and has half deterioration ; )
You are not SD burster, are you?
This is not strange at all. Yes, I am doubleburst SD burster and I had two bursts to kill this sniper. First burst was critical for 100 hp and the second one non-critical for 30 hp. Of course both bursts were from range and of course I was dead right after because of 10 other SoT standing around.
-
It's old info, now they make people within 15 hex visible, including sneakers and people behind walls.
how do u get one?
-
how do u get one?
I have seen them in SF shop, not sure if they spawn there or someone sold them.
But they have limited battery and I don't think you can recharge them, so you can't just walk with them all the time.
-
This theme now can be named as "Sneakers" because bursters are not so dangerous now and there are a lot different strong sneakers builds...
Btw:
This is not strange at all. Yes, I am doubleburst SD burster and I had two bursts to kill this sniper. First burst was critical for 100 hp and the second one non-critical for 30 hp. Of course both bursts were from range and of course I was dead right after because of 10 other SoT standing around.
Thats a joke...SoT don't have any 90hp snipers in CA :D
-
I have seen them in SF shop, not sure if they spawn there or someone sold them.
But they have limited battery and I don't think you can recharge them, so you can't just walk with them all the time.
Thank you, JovankaB. I'll try to find one.
Yet, dont you think that's not reasonable to have such a hard to get counter against GG sneaker?
-
This theme now can be named as "Sneakers" because bursters are not so dangerous now and there are a lot different strong sneakers builds...
sneakers are ok, till they dont 1 shot you without leaving any chance, like SD bursters.
Can someone recomend a good build/tactic against SD bursters (except being twice more than SD bursters)
BTW: motion sensor can let you detect people from 15hexes. Awesome, GG can burst from 15 hexes and it will be last thing that you will see :(
-
Can someone recomend a good build/tactic against SD bursters (except being twice more than SD bursters)
Of course if you are not able to make some simple build and ask it on random theme on forum that is too evident to suppose that you will die in game again and again at the first time.
ps. Just check your own build, lvling this, or make your sneaker too. And after that write what do you think about game-mechanic of sneak... ;)
At this moment sneaker can kill only sniper from 2 bursts of p90 or shoot someone from 1hex. That at least less effective then "heavy-handed-bluesuits"
-
Thats a joke...SoT don't have any 90hp snipers in CA :D
130!! Read previous posts god damnit! Yea, it was the weakest sniper I could choose.
-
That at least less effective then "heavy-handed-bluesuits"
haha really? care to elaborate please?
-
pti4ka u don't know what u talking about :) And its no offence mentioned.
I played some on SD burster and its pretty OP and shits about killing only snipers are just shits
-
no they nerfted them...now they are balanced, you can deal more than 180 damage in range from behind with +brd and better ctis form p90. but still 1hex in back is death and i think it is ok. maby they should nerf a litle range crits to max 180-200. stop whining...best way against sneakers protect you back and learn how to move back foward so sneaker wont shoot you in back...
-
I have seen them in SF shop, not sure if they spawn there or someone sold them.
But they have limited battery and I don't think you can recharge them, so you can't just walk with them all the time.
I seen them one time at gunrunners and bought 3 maybe and appears that you must recharge them by dropping them on the floor and charging with item from your inventory.
-
no they nerfted them...now they are balanced, you can deal more than 180 damage in range from behind with +brd and better ctis form p90. but still 1hex in back is death and i think it is ok. maby they should nerf a litle range crits to max 180-200. stop whining...best way against sneakers protect you back and learn how to move back foward so sneaker wont shoot you in back...
and here come the tips and tricks to protect yourself against silent death sneakers!
1. move like a spaz back and forth!
2. everyone make 10 PE char! if you're lucky you can see them from 5 hexes!
3. be happy they can ONLY deal 180-200 HPs of damage! oh wait, double burst? 360-400 HP's of damage!
4. always carry motion sensor because these things are sooo easy to be found! even giant ants have them!
5. make sure you always carry a BA, MAYBE you will survive! hell, if not, you just lost your BA to a bluesuit that can find 30 greasers in 1 hour anyway.
6. make SD build yourself since other builds are 90% useless.
7. always play TB. oh wait, that won't make a HUGE difference anyway since the sneakers can activate sneak on world map.
8. always carry an APA with avenger minigun and... WTF?
9. super-stims are always a must! only if you can click "i" and press left mouse click, then select "hand" icon faster than the sneaker can burst you for the second time, then you're off to a great start!
10. stay in your tent all the time. they won't get you there.
-
3. be happy they can ONLY deal 180-200 HPs of damage! oh wait, double burst? 360-400 HP's of damage!
You obviously know what you are talking about ::)
Two criticals in a row, cool story...
-
whaaawhaaawhaaaaaaa
there, fixed that for you.
keep on topic, stop trolling please.
so much butthurt in this thread its amazing
-
You obviously know what you are talking about ::)
Two criticals in a row, cool story...
yeah it is pretty obvious you don't give a shit about balance anyway because you, yourself have a sneaker char (duh! "sneaking around..."), and you'd REALLY HATE IT if you couldn't just roll into New Reno commercial and do some easy crits with easily farmable gear.
ok, let's assume, there aren't 2 criticals, it's only one. it's still incredibly OP, considering max range for most SMG's is ALOT MORE than even 10PE char can see your sneaked character. 200+ HP critical leaves most characters severely wounded, which more than easy to take down with a second burst.
TankBoy, i brought some solid arguments there(which are on-topic BTW, did you even READ that post or you just pretended to read it?). you don't agree, you call me a troll, which is quite ironic, innit? you're pathetic.
IMHO sneak shouldn't be that overpowered. should mostly be a scouting advantage and somewhat a little more subtle. the way it was before wipe was perfect, to be honest.
-
yeah it is pretty obvious you don't give a shit about balance anyway because you, yourself have a sneaker char...
Yes, I do. :)
...and you'd REALLY HATE IT if you couldn't just roll into New Reno commercial and do some easy crits with easily farmable gear.
Nah, my sneaker was never at commercial, though I'm planning to go there and hunt some other sneakers (which is what I like, not everybody is like you, killing poor bluesuit traders or crafters) ;)
-
killing poor bluesuit traders or crafters) ;)
make a new thread under Gang Issues, saying "DEPUTYDOPE IZ PK OH NOEZ!!!oneone" and keep this thread clean. i'm not gonna justify my actions to people that don't understand anything ok? cheers!
PS: i think i managed to make people stick more to the game than you anyway.
-
Deputy: I don't care about your player killing, really. Just don't say that I do easy crits on commercial and stuff like that.
-
Mr.dope, i read your post,. and all your suggested tactics were written like some ironic joke and made to look like un-viable options. ( trolling )
for example the last suggestion : stay in your tent and dont go out,. ugh. great one.
most or all of the others have been mentioned before
dont try to tell me you were trying to be taken seriusly.
it clearly looks like your butthurt about some sneaker killing you Xd
you have to calculate into the big picture, this game is not 1vs1 in reno.
-
In my case, i dont find it balanced got shot today from a sneaker onehex with greasegun critburst stealing me 679 HP !
while im wearing CA with nearly 80 % and have a tanker build with toughness and even tougher
-
130!! Read previous posts god damnit! Yea, it was the weakest sniper I could choose.
90+40=130 if I'm not mistaking :)
-
Of course if you are not able to make some simple build and ask it on random theme on forum that is too evident to suppose that you will die in game again and again at the first time.
ps. Just check your own build, lvling this, or make your sneaker too. And after that write what do you think about game-mechanic of sneak... ;)
At this moment sneaker can kill only sniper from 2 bursts of p90 or shoot someone from 1hex. That at least less effective then "heavy-handed-bluesuits"
Well, its not a random theme on forum, its SD burst theme and I'm asking about SD burst counter build. Do you know one?
-
From what Ive observed so far, SD bursters are a weapon of poor and mass trolling, when even no skilled player is able to pull one kill.
-
For the love of talos let's get this over with already!
Nerf Silent Death in some way, nuff said. ::)
-
For the love of talos let's get this over with already!
Nerf Silent Death in some way, nuff said. ::)
Just disable burst mode when Silent Death perk is picked. Like Fast Shoot trait disables aiming mode.
-
Just disable burst mode when Silent Death perk is picked. Like Fast Shoot trait disables aiming mode.
That looks like a best solution. Normal GG users will not suffer, and people will not need to rerol, cause SD shot from magnum or desert eagle should still do some decent damage.
-
Just disable burst mode when Silent Death perk is picked. Like Fast Shoot trait disables aiming mode.
I agree with this.
I have SD burster and all I can say its too much overpowered...
-
Chillout girls, Solar told that burst + silent death is just a bug. Bug will be fixed.
-
Thats too boring already... Lat's talk about "silent-death grenaders" for example... Or about "heavy-handed-bluesuits"...
When only pain remains need to exchange theme idea ;)
-
Sure, lets just nerf silent death and tell everyone who rolled it to piss off. Can we do that to big guns and unarmed next? The only trolls I see are the ones here complaining instead of offering anything useful to this thread.
-
Sure, lets just nerf silent death and tell everyone who rolled it to piss off. Can we do that to big guns and unarmed next? The only trolls I see are the ones here complaining instead of offering anything useful to this thread.
the only trolls i see here are the ones talking about other trolls and wanting to keep an OP perk to troll others. get it?
-
Sure, lets just nerf silent death and tell everyone who rolled it to piss off. Can we do that to big guns and unarmed next? The only trolls I see are the ones here complaining instead of offering anything useful to this thread.
Actually there were many decent solutions in this thread, from limiting damage output for SD burst to introducing a sneak suit.
Now go reroll a non-sneaker character, get shredded to pieces anytime you encounter a SD burster and come back to this thread:)
-
i love this perk! now instead of 900 HP you only do 500! damn just saw one of these bursts
forgot tip #11: don't face a sniper because he might eye shoot you. don't turn your back on a SD troll he might burst you. solution: strafe!
-
I created sneaker, but using SD with .223 pistol most because its fun, sd bursting personally not bringing to me much fun. If enemy know that sneaker are around he can quite easy dodge sneakers SD burst. In hinkley its rly hard to land one hex burst, and yeah its lethal, but critts from distance sometime do 50 crt dmg :) next two non crt 2 bursts with p90 24 -34 dmg(dont have BRD maybe it would help a little), ofc those guys aint blue suits and they usually have toughness and BA.
So its not like it looks that you have sneaker you can own everything that have a back :D, I would say no, you just can own bluesuits and victims who lost their alertness(in this game this means when u standing alone, our back isnt near wall, and you not moving some time, yeah yeah you must learn to be more paranoic :D and its hard)
-
Has anyone suggested implementing a cooldown on sneak like other skills? Like, immediately after bursting or exiting sneak, you have to wait at least 15-30 seconds to sneak again.
Would this be enough to combat silent death? Or would just removing it altogether be a better ham-fisted approach?
-
Looks like after each death in wasteland from sneakers people going to cry on forum...
-
I think it's not a matter of IF but WHEN and HOW, with this many people complaining. Sure, it spices up the game a bit it's hardly fair. I play a sneak burster alt and it's damn easy.
A good idea to balance it would be making sneak impossible if the combat timer is on (wait 10 seconds out, then enter sneak again).
-
I have no idea what are you talking about :) There is only one way to balance it. Only pistols. Thats all.
-
Only pistols? Bullshit
-
Only pistols? Bullshit
Gief miniguns and bazookas!
-
Silen Death only for unarmed and meele weapons :)
or
when sneaker handling any small, big, energy weapon get -100% to his sneak skill - as inverse effect of perk ghost
-
Gothalgo this thread is dead already, because SD bursters got nerfed. If you want to discuss silent death perk, make a new topic.
-
sd for sg is good. little to weak against laser sd but with 223 pistol will be 2 powerfoul. remove sd from grenages and leave for ew.
-
I have no idea what are you talking about :) There is only one way to balance it. Only pistols. Thats all.
..and throwing "melee" weapons as t.knife, spike, spears, stones\ore
-
let's start new topic, like "Silent Death with Plasma Nades"
-
let's start new topic, like "Silent Death with Plasma Nades"
agree.