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[DeputyDope]

2x Damage == No bypass issue.

It's a clean and elegant solution with no strings attached.

agreed. 2x or even 3x damage but not more. those bypasses are way too crazy even for 20 hexes let alone 1 hex..

[Enzotainment]

agreed. 2x or even 3x damage but not more. those bypasses are way too crazy even for 20 hexes let alone 1 hex..

I hope you only mean for bursting.
A lot of single shot users rely on a good oldfashoned bypass...

[DeputyDope]

yeah, i meant for bursting. 

[Onihane]

Ok, after much thought and consideration on this I think ive come up with a fix. I really like the silent death setup and I dont want silent death to change. So what needs to change is indeed the grease gun, but to be exact, the grease gun's ammo. Right now if I am not mistaken, the grease gun ammo is set to a 1/1 damage modifier with no + or - to targets DR/DT. Maybe try adjusting the ammo to be more like 10mm. Or maybe scale it down from 1/1 to 3/4 or 2/3, or just apply a + target DR value that wont completly ruin the smg. But I really think the problem is with the 1/1 dmg on the ammo, since with brd x 3 you are getting +7 dmg a bullet. So, the tl;dr of it is just to adjust the grease guns ammo to suit its new potential as a close quarters battle weapon with silent death.

And on a similar note, I just noticed .45 ammo was changed to take 2 junk now, I already have enough problems mining without a personal mine, and I feel that I better fix would be to make it 2 alloy.



Now, lets talk about standard crit bursters that use new things like spray and pray.
Ive also been working on a pure critical burster that uses assault rifle with more crits x2, brd x 3, better crits, spray and prey, and bonus rate of fire. If you want to balance pure critical burst back in so its not just destroyed by big gun bursting and SD, then give a new perk that can be taken instead of bonus rate of fire.

Here are some examples I was thinking of, they might not be exactally what needs to be done but you get the idea.

Example: Violent Death - You love a real horror show. Your attacks with 2 handed small guns have an added 10% Critical chance and +10 on critical table. You also ignore targets DR by 5%. - This might be a little over powered for snipers though, but im not sure yet.

Example: Eagle Eye - You think you've seen it all in the wastes? Well, now you have. With Eagle Eye, you gain the ability to detect sneaking foes within 15 hex. You also ignore targets body armor effects if they have sneak up. - Might be over powered, but it would give pure critical burster an edge in tc vs silent death, so long as this perk works for assault rifles only pretty much.


But yea, just trying to give some constructive input, I really love this game and I just want it to be fun for everyone playing. If anyone has any other ideas on how we can keep these builds without breaking perks and making people remake then post it up!

[toothpix]

<...>
Having one person in a group with 10 Pe + SS, or one person with a motion sensor guarding, or even just going in a small group. These things stop one person ambushing you.

Sneakers can also gang up, you know?

We were playing with a friend and SNEAKERS CAMP EVERY SINGLE UNGUARDED TOWN! The two of us with normal characters could sometimes kill one sneaker (one of us would die in the process), but against 2 or 3 sneakers there's absolutely nothing you can do. And that's not something you could fix with a grease gun nerf...

Rerolling into sneaker until this gets fixed...

[Kelin]

Even if silent death didn't exist, you two guys would be killed by 2-3 lsw sneakers anyway. So what bothers you? That you don't see them or that they don't lose as much stuff as you?

[Gaizk]

Wont be long kelin until wealth starts flowing and those sneakers upgrade to LSW, Ghost town fights of automatic-sniper insta killing ghosts... Reminds me of FoT so much, too bad though in FoT you had a timer to pull this off (namely the minutes the drugs last) here though, its just you and good old patience for the kill

[brendan]

Wont be long kelin until wealth starts flowing and those sneakers upgrade to LSW, Ghost town fights of automatic-sniper insta killing ghosts... Reminds me of FoT so much, too bad though in FoT you had a timer to pull this off (namely the minutes the drugs last) here though, its just you and good old patience for the kill

Right, because Silent Death works with two handed weapons.....

[Gaizk]

It doesnt? Well thats my bad then. Lets stick with p90c then, the deathrange is ... surprisingly 25 hexes. Not true sniping but good sharpshooting nonetheless...

[toothpix]

Even if silent death didn't exist, you two guys would be killed by 2-3 lsw sneakers anyway. So what bothers you? That you don't see them or that they don't lose as much stuff as you?

You know the answer, it's both:) But now I'm just saying that this kind of character is quite easy to make and that it's becoming really popular. In several hours of playing in different northern cities, we've met 1 character without sneak and 7-8 sneakers... If it's going to be ghost towns full of sneakers, then it's not exactly fun.

[T-888]

Even if silent death didn't exist, you two guys would be killed by 2-3 lsw sneakers anyway. So what bothers you? That you don't see them or that they don't lose as much stuff as you?

It's not that simple , first of all sneakers wouldn't be so popular if there wouldn't have been so much changes done to them and yes it's quite annoying that even one of the most cheapest and easy to get weapons can take down the most toughest of characters in game with one burst , silent death or other name for the perk it still doesn't change the fact the feature needs readjustment , it's unbalanced. If only you would read at least most of the topic before starting to ask stupid questions and used some common sense.

[Killy]

its not SD that is not balanced if the person using SD will not be able to 1 hit kill the target it will not make any sense picking the perk, sneak is the thing that makes it unbalanced, there should be a way to fend off sneakers, and I would rather nerf the sneak than make lets say motion scanner better ( not everyone can afford one ), the question is how much sneak should have been nerfed to keep people using their sneak alts and make it balanced.

[Eraus]

its not SD that is not balanced if the person using SD will not be able to 1 hit kill the target it will not make any sense picking the perk, sneak is the thing that makes it unbalanced, there should be a way to fend off sneakers, and I would rather nerf the sneak than make lets say motion scanner better ( not everyone can afford one ), the question is how much sneak should have been nerfed to keep people using their sneak alts and make it balanced.

I think SD purpose to do crt hit with aimed shot from behind, not to one shot everyone...I made unarmed sneaker character, im using power fist, have 240 skill points spend in sneak, and oddly I cant do a shit, because enemies say they see me from 10 hexes, and its hard to impossible to land SD with power fist, dont have stealth boy now(dunno where to get) maybe it will help, so if sneak will be nerfed, chars like my would be complete worthless(of course its my responsibility, I made him that lame). So when nerfing something need to have in mind that this will not only can fix OP thing, but in same time make weak even weaker.

[Tankboy]

you cant  nerf sneak itself,. that would make hth / meele unable to use SD, and dont forget that sneak has a counter allready, high perception characters.

Eraus, 240 sneak is way to low, for a meele / hth sneaker that is gona use SD u need 300 

i have been playing a lvl24 sg Sneak burster for a few days now,.  and only problem i run into is snipers,. they seem to detect me from 10-15 hex  even with my 300 sneak. i just get shot in the head and loose my sneak.

there is no question about that 1hex SD burst is op or not,. i shot a guy for 1014 dmg today,
even normal 1hex burst from grease gun is awsome,. and sneak gets you into range, atleast when there is no high perc character arround.

hth / meele chars saying they cant use SD : your doing it wrong , if i can 1hex Sd burst some, you should be able to aswell,. specially with a sledge or a spear wich has 2hex range.

a good start would be , like solar mentioned - remove Sd effect from 1 hex burst, and then talk about SD burst from range is op or not, i dont think so myself atm, but i need to test it more.

[Gavin602]

dont forget that sneak has a counter allready, high perception characters.

Hahah what? I use a 10 percep sniper and a sneaker can easily sneak up from behind and appear outta know where after he gets 3 hexes next to me... I think sneak should be like it was before wipe so there wouldn't be one hex bursting(especially with silent death.)