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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => General Game Discussion => Topic started by: Marko69 on July 11, 2010, 08:06:08 pm
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Millitia is not needed, it only ruins pvp in towns. Vote...
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As I understand it, militia was designed by the devs as a buffer for when gangs are not online (remember before TC was during certain hours prior to militia being implemented), so that towns cannot be taken with blue suits. However, with the new mechanics, blue suits cannot take towns, as there are now requirements, not to mention, when PCs are not present, the militia is easily exploitable and defeatable. So now militia is primarily used (and in fact its only effective purpose) as additional defenses. Whether this use for militia, while not the devs original intent, is good or bad is up to the devs to decide, but personally I do not agree with it, because PvP should be just that player vs. player.
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Well in some situation yes... but sometime.. its defend you i dont know what to vote.
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I voted NO because militia is very useful to help anti-PK factions to secure a town and it allows single players to come in the city and trade with merchants or some other things. It is a bit boring to wait all day long in a town waiting for something to happen but it is a way to give more life to towns.
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I voted NO, militia is a good thing to keep a town 'quite' safe. It's a good feature
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I believe it is a good feature, but like many other things it requires some more polishing it.
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Militia ruins bluesuit takedowns... whooops, I've said it again.
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I'm not a great fan of the single guy sitting in a town using the Militia to kill anyone who comes in, I think its more a problem with their being no reason to allow "stuff" in a town more than with Militia themselves.
For example if you got a cut of the Brahmin trade in a town, there would be a reason for the holders of the town to allow bluesuits to go about their business unmolested.
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As we had some time ago. But it never worked properly. It was always more interesting to kill the guy and loot his stuff than wait him to trade to obtain a little part of what he dealt. But it may be possible to change that fact...
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As we had some time ago. But it never worked properly.
But at that moment militia did not exist. Maybe know we could do something interesting with that.
In fact, life in wasteland cities should more depends of TC. It should be interesting for all sides :
- Interesting for raiders gangs who want to rule a town with terror.
- Interesting for peaceful gangs who want to allow players to come safely in towns.
- Interesting forsmall gangs or lonely wastelanders who just want to stay or trade or roleplay in cities
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- Interesting for raiders gangs who want to rule a town with terror.
Satisfaction of having uber-e-powers and loot from bluesuits they kill should be enough for them, really.
- Interesting for peaceful gangs who want to allow players to come safely in towns.
- Interesting forsmall gangs or lonely wastelanders who just want to stay or trade or roleplay in cities
With the solutions given above (% of traded items goes to faction that controls the town, etc, etc), it can really happen. Militia should, by then, give the option to become like guarded-towns guards (around the same script, or maybe only towards players that hit NPCs for example). Militia can become, more than a pking tool, a tool that makes the trades and so on in a city quite safe.
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Militia should, by then, give the option to become like guarded-towns guards (around the same script, or maybe only towards players that hit NPCs for example). Militia can become, more than a pking tool, a tool that makes the trades and so on in a city quite safe.
I agree with every single word. Militia should be like guards, so if a "good" clan takes the city, they can be instructed of just standing and defending players like guards do;
otherwise if a pk clan takes it, guards should attack on sight every enemy, at least permitting to players to realize that they are going to be pwned and give them a hope to run :D
tbh the first time i went to Den (to complete jezus quest) i found this crappy bluesuit who punched me (note, i was totally naked except for the suitcase) and i got insta pwned by the militia... frustrated nerds like to ruin others game just for fun...
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In my opinion, what militia needs now :
- Faction owning the town should be able to give orders to militia and decide some ennemies factions to shoot on sight (we enter a faction name with "say" and all players from this faction are shoot on sight, for example)
- If militia become more intelligent, and by the way more powerful, it needs to be nerfeed on the other side. One idea (maybe good or bad) : when you buy a milician he starts unarmed (with at least a good unarmed skill). Then the faction owning the town should have to "give" weapons to milicians for fighting (at the condition that they still have infinite ammos, I guess). It may be hard to script but it can be way easier if all combat skills of milcians are the same (150% unarmed, 150% small guns, 150% big guns, and so on).
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Two good ideas Pozzo !
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Stop it Izual. People will think that we make love together :-*
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Shouldn't they know the truth ??? Okay, back to topic ;)
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In my opinion, what militia needs now :
- Faction owning the town should be able to give orders to militia and decide some ennemies factions to shoot on sight (we enter a faction name with "say" and all players from this faction are shoot on sight, for example)
Its Decide to fail when you enter alone to city, more useful for PK & it only do nothing when team enter from Mine ( in redding) On residental in Broken hill etc.
- If militia become more intelligent, and by the way more powerful, it needs to be nerfeed on the other side. One idea (maybe good or bad) : when you buy a milician he starts unarmed (with at least a good unarmed skill). Then the faction owning the town should have to "give" weapons to milicians for fighting (at the condition that they still have infinite ammos, I guess). It may be hard to script but it can be way easier if all combat skills of milcians are the same (150% unarmed, 150% small guns, 150% big guns, and so on).
For me it's bad idea. We need other exit from this problem :)
First Devs SHOULD repair problem with TC leader ( None city and problem when Team attack Militia and one man in sheriff building buying next soldier all time ) ::)
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Its Decide to fail when you enter alone to city, more useful for PK & it only do nothing when team enter from Mine ( in redding) On residental in Broken hill etc.
Sorry I don't understand this sentence :-\
First Devs SHOULD repair problem with TC leader ( None city and problem when Team attack Militia and one man in sheriff building buying next soldier all time )
Yes ! First of all. But I guess they are already working on it so I would like to think about something more (mooaaaarrrr)
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''Its Decide to fail when you enter alone to city, more useful for PK & it only do nothing when team enter from Mine ( in redding) On residental in Broken hill etc. ''
if someone enter from enemy faction alone to trade , dug ore etc. he can die by militia ( look , guard of town can write 400 faction name on enemy list))
And militia will do nothing when enemy enter to Mine , residental etc... But they will see nothing =)
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if someone enter from enemy faction alone to trade , dug ore etc. he can die by militia
- If the town is owned by a PK team : nobody will be able to trade anyway.
- If the town is owned by an anti-PK team : only ennemies of the faction (ennemies of anti-pk faction is pk faction) will be killed, so PKs will be killed.
I don't see where is the problem :)
And militia will do nothing when enemy enter to Mine , residental etc... But they will see nothing =)
Yes, militia can't do all the job. Players have to fight by themselves if they want to mine.
And if noobs or single players want ore or uranium they can ask to faction owning the town to help them gathering at the mine or they can trade their goods for ore.
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Making the militia an analogue to guards in guarded towns would be interesting, but it would also need different behavior. For example guards would not attack the controlling faction, but then we are almost left with the same thing we have now. Which is the militia is being used as an offensive weapon rather than a defensive one.
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Point is, PK-factions can already slaughter anyone they want to, even with non-guards Militia. With guards Militia, they could slaughter anyone they want to, but non-PK factions could also make the town a "safe" one.
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Or... Make not attacking militia , When owning faction shot someone , militia do nothing ... :)
Militia will only attack when they have been hitted by enemy or when enemy talk to sheriff about Town Control ( yes if guarding faction is die , militia do nothing . Militia start fight when enemy team start timmer =) ). .
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Hu hu hu I really don't like this idea because I won't be able to keep my town (Broken Hills) anymore :D
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The problem is the pvp in general..
Look at the last era.. if you want to join PvP, you have to create junkie PvP char: jet, nukas, smokes, psycho, buffouts.. without this, you are fuc**d.
You have to spend your hardly crafted ammo on militia, if you want to challenge other players.
You wait for 24 minutes in city/over the map, then you will die in few seconds..
You can craft many types of weapons, but you can use only few of them..
We have name colourizing, so we can recognize our friend and we can create big alliances and that leads to imba..
This is not funny as it was in second era.. yes, we were whining because of dual loggers, but figthst were more longers..
But seriously, i think problem is that developers dont want to evolve PvP system.. Now, everybody knows everything about how to create best PvP char.. and we have undestructible psychos minigunners.. Yes, developers dont want to create only pvp system, but question is, who is playing this game since start of open beta? Even Vedaras is gone..
Point is, PK-factions can already slaughter anyone they want to, even with non-guards Militia. With guards Militia, they could slaughter anyone they want to, but non-PK factions could also make the town a "safe" one.
Dont forget the point, we want to fight for fun.. our role, anti PK, is not because we want to clear wasteland from PK, we just dont want kill every bluesuit. But we want figth with real players, so thats our role
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Point is, PK-factions can already slaughter anyone they want to, even with non-guards Militia.
That's not true at all. It used to be that you were able to fight back if you were attacked in an unguarded city. Also, it used to be that pkers had to risk equipment to pk.
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Nobody wants to risk fighting against militia with pulse and gauss weapons, the only way to kill this militia is to get in building use psycho and have first aid backup. 2 people on psycho are enough, but this militia only wastes time and ammo, and its pu$$y protection for those who stay near. Excuse my bad mouth, but with militia its only hard for attacker, without militia pvp would be hard for both attackers and defenders, but now defenders have high and very noticeable advantage. For fair fight you'd need double manpower to make it up for militia and this is unfair pvp for me.
Whats the point of militia when for its elimination you need to use tricks like stay 1 hex from door of building on psycho and burst militia 1 by 1, its pve not pvp, in pvp you want to fight other players, not npcs.
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Nobody wants to risk fighting against militia with pulse and gauss weapons, the only way to kill this militia is to get in building use psycho and have first aid backup. 2 people on psycho are enough, but this militia only wastes time and ammo, and its pu$$y protection for those who stay near. Excuse my bad mouth, but with militia its only hard for attacker, without militia pvp would be hard for both attackers and defenders, but now defenders have high and very noticeable advantage. For fair fight you'd need double manpower to make it up for militia and this is unfair pvp for me.
Whats the point of militia when for its elimination you need to use tricks like stay 1 hex from door of building on psycho and burst militia 1 by 1, its pve not pvp, in pvp you want to fight other players, not npcs.
All I can say is...
Consider it a perk for the gang in control of the town. They are in control, and if they didn't use militia they'd probably use mercenaries anyways, just makes things a bit simpler.
*Coming from a guy who has never been in control of a town before*
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Does it makes sense for Klamath town militia to have gauss guns or miniguns, pulse wepaons.. why don't you give them power armors and vindicators? Is this Klamath's underground technology? More realistic would be for militia to have weapons that are available in that town (weapons and armors that caravans and patrols of that town use - ghouls with spears and snipers in Gecko for example).
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Does it makes sense for Klamath town militia to have gauss guns or miniguns, pulse wepaons.. why don't you give them power armors and vindicators? Is this Klamath's underground technology? More realistic would be for militia to have weapons that are available in that town (weapons and armors that caravans and patrols of that town use - ghouls with spears and snipers in Gecko for example).
I can agree with this, it is kinda retarded how militia have gauss n Avengers n shit in some farming town, not to mention only for 500 caps. I mean they shouldn't have piss ass weapons like Hunting rifles or anything but maybe a P90C or two here and there, maybe one minigun, a good bit of Assault Rifles and smgs etc etc... Leather armor mk2 should be most used but metal or metal mk2 shouldn't be left out but slightly rare.
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Yeah militia should have especially smg, assault rifles, miniguns, p90c - weapons with which you can make the city "None" so easy! Great idea Michaelh!
Anyway, why you all wanna nerf militia if they are already too weak, 10 well armed people can bit 20 militians in max. 3 minutes?
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Yeah militia should have especially smg, assault rifles, miniguns, p90c - weapons with which you can make the city "None" so easy! Great idea Michaelh!
Anyway, why you all wanna nerf militia if they are already too weak, 10 well armed people can bit 20 militians in max. 3 minutes?
But can they win if 10 "well armed" people inside together with militia?
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I didn't understood it really, you mean that who can win if 10 well-armored people will be inside with militia?
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I didn't understood it really, you mean that who can win if 10 well-armored people will be inside with militia?
I said it clear, can 10 people win against 10 people + militia? And this is fair fight.
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Yeah militia should have especially smg, assault rifles, miniguns, p90c - weapons with which you can make the city "None" so easy! Great idea Michaelh!
Anyway, why you all wanna nerf militia if they are already too weak, 10 well armed people can bit 20 militians in max. 3 minutes?
They already have P90's Avengers miniguns rocket launchers so I don't see why your trying to be a put it on me, not to mention that people get banned for that exploit already if caught, besides it wouldn't make sense if all gaurds had Hunting rifles and snipers n rippers because if that were the case killing militia would be EXTREMELY easy using the current exploit because there wouldn't be any minigunners to point blank burst once inside the building.
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I said it clear, can 10 people win against 10 people + militia? And this is fair fight.
Yes, because that's a realistic scenario ::)
Militia is good as it is, it makes defending and actually controlling a city possible and its primary purpose is buying some time to the faction in control. Anyone who says militia is a determining factor in most TC battles is a liar - because by the time those battles even start, they're generally all dead. The only bad things about militia are the result of bugs which wouldn't even be there if a few dumb suggestions (the "None" thing) weren't made.
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I said it clear, can 10 people win against 10 people + militia? And this is fair fight.
So you're saying that if you control 5 towns you got also 10 people in each town for guarding it together with militia? :-X Nice waste of players.
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Yes, because that's a realistic scenario ::)
Militia is good as it is, it makes defending and actually controlling a city possible and its primary purpose is buying some time to the faction in control. Anyone who says militia is a determining factor in most TC battles is a liar - because by the time those battles even start, they're generally all dead. The only bad things about militia are the result of bugs which wouldn't even be there if a few dumb suggestions (the "None" thing) weren't made.
I think militia should be only for night time , and its good for . For big TC battle it do PVE not PVP :/
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I think militia should be only for night time , and its good for . For big TC battle it do PVE not PVP :/
It just shouldn't respawn. Also, how many battles does it take part in in the first place? One out of 10? And when it does, it's usually because one of the gangs did something smart. Militia simply isn't a problem at all, but it provides some nice possibilities.
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So you're saying that if you control 5 towns you got also 10 people in each town for guarding it together with militia? :-X Nice waste of players.
If there are no players inside militia will die. If there are players in or over town, attackers will die.
If you have 50+ people try to lose please...
Control and defense is not the same thing, if you want to defend you'll stay inside.
The gameplay now is: scout town if any player is inside, no one inside > go kill militia with point blank bunker tactic >> if enemy were over town you are screwed > if they were not over town, take control and wait 25 minutes. "IF" someone attacks you when you are in good camp bunker 1hex position somewhere in town (psycho ready) you'll have some "FUN". If not > After you took the town you exit town and noob comes to kill your TC npc and you lose town control WRONG! > You stay in town to defend the TC npc and you buy militia waiting for those who are crazy enough to attack you when you are near "weak nerfed" militia and fight? against enemy who gets raped by militia attack in 10-20 seconds and retreats. When(If) you get bored of staying inside, you will leave the town, and opponents faction will later proceed with the same drill. This is your game.
My gameplay would be: No wasting time on killing militia ritual, no waiting for someone 25 minutes ritual(calling friend on phone, hey there'll be a fight in Den in 25mins; ok I'm on a train, be there in 20mins.. I never done this >_< 15-20 mins enough). Direct fight pvp with no npc involved except mercenaries which are ok support for me. No one will bring 10 merc leaders with mutants I hope... Fast and easy gameplay based on groups fighting skills, no stupid waste of time on non-fun rituals PLEASE! The simpler the better. The more complicated you make it the more bugs and inconveniences will happen ruining game fun.
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Does it makes sense for Klamath town militia to have gauss guns or miniguns, pulse wepaons.. why don't you give them power armors and vindicators? Is this Klamath's underground technology? More realistic would be for militia to have weapons that are available in that town (weapons and armors that caravans and patrols of that town use - ghouls with spears and snipers in Gecko for example).
Yes but Klamath is probably the hardest city to take/defend so how could we balance militia depending on this and not depending of thei technology ?
And you forget that in this game, being a PK is far more easy than being anti-PK so militia balance all that.
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Marko You said yourself, 25 minutes timer, this is the real problem not milicia. With some ideas and strategies you can beat players and militia, it's called guerrilla, rogues are becoming quite good at this :P
Militia just need to be a little reworked and I like Pozzo's idea
Pozzo +1
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So when you buy militia it will spawn unarmed, and then you can give them weapon you want. That sounds fair. I agree too Pozzo +1
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I think it could (at least) solve the problem of "technology regarding of the city which is controled". Militia power will depend on the faction power and not in the town.
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Ok i agree with giving guns for militia
+1 Pozzo
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Why not make special objectives in different cities while capturing? I.e.: sometimes you will need special profesion with science, repair skill.. it will not be necessary for town control, but it will provide kind of help.
Or make some kind of capturing for small teams, where they can use low equip.
In my point of view, we dont fight because we want capture the city, we capture the city because we want fight. TC is kind of beacon: hello, we are here, we want fight, but this current TC kills small actions with few people. We are unable to take few players and enter the city, kill another small gang with low equip etc.., because there is f...g militia inside.
This current state, where we have to wait 25 minutes to fight is very boring. Seriously, we are thinking about leaving fonline after wipe, if there will not be changes in this way..
Question n.1: Why we could not farm kind of PvP usefull equip like in previous era? Do you realize, that this part of game was very funny for whole team. It was part of pvp preparation. We loged on mumble, where there were few members .. they vere crafting/exping alone or together.. if the numbers of our mates was quite bigger, but not so big to PvP, we made a caravan hunt.. you know, team action.. lately, we fought PvP..
In the economics balance madness, you, devs, erase this part from the game, so now we have only time for PvP.. waiting 25 minutes,.... Dont you realize, that you put out the entertaining part of this game? This is not stupid trolling, this is state of fact. Now, i cant say to four of my teamates: "boys, lets go on caravans", and i cant even say to my four teamates: "boys, lets capture the city", because there is 20 militia and sneaking enemy.
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Well, even if there wasn't militia, I doubt you would succeed in taking any town with four guys (because above the towns are 30 RDA/Rogues/etc).
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In my point of view, we dont fight because we want capture the city, we capture the city because we want fight. TC is kind of beacon: hello, we are here, we want fight, but this current TC kills small actions with few people. We are unable to take few players and enter the city, kill another small gang with low equip etc.., because there is f...g militia inside.
Well we are talking about a town, not about a base. If I take to attack my town I would need an army :D. Or even if I want to attack a raider base I need a lot of fighters.
What we need is a PvP alternative for small gangs (like capturing small areas/factories/shop/building,etc... I don't know)
Question n.1: Why we could not farm kind of PvP usefull equip like in previous era? Do you realize, that this part of game was very funny for whole team.
Personaly I have more fun in the game right now than before :)
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In my point of view, we dont fight because we want capture the city, we capture the city because we want fight. TC is kind of beacon: hello, we are here, we want fight
True
but this current TC kills small actions with few people. We are unable to take few players and enter the city, kill another small gang with low equip etc.., because there is f...g militia inside.
False, if you search, you can almost always found ennemies somwhere else, also, the militia is ONLY at the main entrance, it's often easy to fight a other entrances and the militia don't bother you.
This current state, where we have to wait 25 minutes to fight is very boring
Well the main problem is just the timer is too long, 15 min should be enough, but for the rest, the new TC is pretty good.
Question n.1: Why we could not farm kind of PvP usefull equip like in previous era? Do you realize, that this part of game was very funny for whole team. It was part of pvp preparation.
Well I agree the farming was very funny part of the game and the funniest way to obtain equipment, and it's bad you can't do it anymore.
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Well, even if there wasn't militia, I doubt you would succeed in taking any town with four guys (because above the towns are 30 RDA/Rogues/etc).
I remember, that in previous era, we captured the city with low stuff, not many members, without supermutants against cca 20 membres of Dark Alliance.. it was a luck too :) but that fight was epic for us..
Now, if we want to capture i.e. Redding, we have to stay in 2 buildings.. and of course, for small gangs is this trap..
Why not make this: gang members: minimum 5 players, enter the city to capture it. To capture the city, they have to broadcast their text in local radio. So they need to find radio station (sneaker), hijack computer (science), lock the doors (thief), set up the trap (demoexpert) and hold this objectives agaisnt enemy.. They will need to kill only thief and scientist, if they want to succeed with town control protection.
I can imagine, that biggest teams will have enough power to control the city if they want, but small gangs will be able to retake it at least for some time.. does not matter that bigger gangs will control this for long time, it will be enough fun for smaller gangs too.. Maybe, if bigger alliances will se, that there is possibility to capture it only with few members, they will not try to make this kind of alliances for this kind of town control.
Also i can imagine, that before this, we can go to NCR, to bazaar, not to buy stuff, but to hire player-specialist..
Problem i see is: stuff is expensives to just lose it in some kind of capturing minigame (=>allow caravan hunting with PvP usable stuff)
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Back to the topic, militia needs some A.I. improvements to behave like a real militia (follow players orders...), some bug fixes, then it will be perfect. We just have to be patient.
During the previous sessions, when you assigned your mercs or your slaves to the town you were controlling, you were able to determine some "rules", by talking to the mayor. It didn't work good, but it was a quite interesting idea.
Pozzo 's idea is also really good, it would be great to be able to equip our own militia.
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I just wondered if changing the countdown to a variable count (lets say between 10 and 25 minuts) and hidden for all people outside the concerned faction would be interesting. More uncertain, more funny. What do you think ?
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I just wondered if changing the countdown to a variable count (lets say between 10 and 25 minuts) and hidden for all people outside the concerned faction would be interesting. More uncertain, more funny. What do you think ?
Heu, who is the "concerned faction" for you? Only the attakers? Attakers + defense? It is funny the fight in a 3 way fight...
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One more idea : the faction controling a town can "tell" to mayor to add some friendly names to protect. So the militia will not defend only the faction but also the players who were added as "friends".
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Well the main problem is just the timer is too long, 15 min should be enough, but for the rest, the new TC is pretty good.
I agree, and I suggested this some time ago.
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One more idea : the faction controling a town can "tell" to mayor to add some friendly names to protect. So the militia will not defend only the faction but also the players who were added as "friends".
Afair, this was supposed to be ingame when the militia was implemented. But We didnt see it, I do not remember why.
Heu, who is the "concerned faction" for you? Only the attakers? Attakers + defense? It is funny the fight in a 3 way fight...
Only the attacking faction who tries to take control over a town whould know exactly how much time they still have to stay.
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I'm just pissed there's no where to pk random people without getting killed by npcs other than camping unguarded resources.
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I'm just pissed there's no where to pk random people without getting killed by npcs other than camping unguarded resources.
Reno? Thats where I wait for PKers to kill :)
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Reno? Thats where I wait for PKers to kill :)
Reno is always full of PKs !!!
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on worldmap
1. Spam preview
2. If you see someone on preview AND you think you can kill him, enter
3. If not, keep doing what was in 1.
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Very good procedure :D
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Reno? Thats where I wait for PKers to kill :)
It's always empty when I play, plus the only high traffic area (west side) is a pretty lousy ambush spot
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I'm always in Reno. If you wanna ambush the west side, hide somewhere and wait for the door to open. Just remember that what lurks in Reno ranges from the blusuit trader with nothing but caps on him to gangs with BA and BGs.
I do agree that militia ruins pvp. Militia means that there's no PVP in towns that have militia, leaving only Reno. Of course, you might find a town with none of its faction members present, but if one of them shows up (and you can't always tell who they are), you're instantly dead.
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I do agree that militia ruins pvp. Militia means that there's no PVP in towns that have militia, leaving only Reno. Of course, you might find a town with none of its faction members present, but if one of them shows up (and you can't always tell who they are), you're instantly dead.
That's totally false. Guys, the militia is only at ONE place! I have often fight many people (even if they had the town) on other entrances, and believe me, have 20 mititia at main when you are attacked residental doesn't help you much.
Also, mines are a great place to PvP, always armed guys over there.
Finally Militia allow you to really "control" a town, before it, the only thing you were doing when having a town was loot the coffre every hour and take your weapon when someone attack you. Now you can stay with your militia, talk with peoples who come here without be constantly under attack.
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Totally true.
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So the militia won't respond if they are too far away. Can the faction position the militia at all?
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No.
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I guess its just been bad luck then, every time I shoot someone in a controlled town i get raped by the militia. Recently got 2 80 crits to the head in a row :/
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Seems like its misconceptions. Gangs aren't taking towns, they are intimidating the superiority there into giving them something for Not killing them. Militia by this token Should not be related to them, except to the town. Militia is made up of people from the area, normal people with guns defending their territory. If someone shoots at another wastelander there and not their town, they shouldn't give a shit. In-fact, if a gang shows up to oust the gang which is holding them hostage (because thats what 'controlling' the town amounts to, does it not?), militia I would think would welcome it, because the more dead wastelanders, the better for them. Not to mention that gangs don't actually invest anything Into the controlling of the town at all, except their gear, which they do for pvp anyway and not the towns benefit.
Its not like dead people in the town has their gear go into the stores, which I think would make sense. Dead person in the street, people are going to run over and try to loot it to pay for food and their starving children.
Anyway... Militia should act as guards, and even Fight the gang who tries to take them over, essentially acting as normal guards and then a first wave of defense to the people trying to instigate TC. Militia shouldn't take any orders from the controllling gang either. They are not mercs. As for increasing militia in a town, this should be done by the town itself. Perhaps by its growth (as in how much wealth the traders move there) which lets the mayor/whatever afford to pay for more militiamen to stand guard. This could give rise to more reason for gangs to control towns consecutively, as the longer they do, the more militia will be there to defend their stake during the first wave.
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Militia should follow order from gang who own the town because if they don't they will have huge problem with them!
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Anyway... Militia should act as guards, and even Fight the gang who tries to take them over, essentially acting as normal guards and then a first wave of defense to the people trying to instigate TC. Militia shouldn't take any orders from the controllling gang either. They are not mercs. As for increasing militia in a town, this should be done by the town itself. Perhaps by its growth (as in how much wealth the traders move there) which lets the mayor/whatever afford to pay for more militiamen to stand guard. This could give rise to more reason for gangs to control towns consecutively, as the longer they do, the more militia will be there to defend their stake during the first wave.
I fully agree with this.
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Yes this is a good idea. So the town will be neutral and non-affiliated to a gang.
But in that case, gang members should be able to engage as mercenaries for the town (with a salary and obligations)
But I don't understand what will be the interest for a gang to make Town Control ?
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I do not see much worry about profit for the gang guarding the town. The big gangs... do you really Need anything more? Do you not loot your enemies, who often come geared in many colors to fight you ? You do not exactly need much of anything, crafting provides the supplies... But the Fight, there is the real point of doing it all, isn't it? This is half an exercise of the mind, as it is not about actual wealth in defending the town but of the combat doing so will bring. I really don't see why you even Need TC in order to instigate this between people. Or perhaps, there is too much emphasis on the mechanics of TC that has muddled the waters, making things overly-complicated beyond their purpose. Maybe there Will be more point, in the future. I do not know.
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Actually, "Big Gangs" need a lot of supplies to keep fighting everyday. For instance, Town Control is the best way to get Jet, cigarettes, and caps of course.
A complete militia set costs 10 000 caps.
So TC reward has to be worth it.
But you're right, I hope there will be more point to fight in the future.
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Errm, if you want militia who will not react if members of controlling gang are being attacked, then I misunderstood you. There is such a need, or militia will be just dummies there. There is no need to give members of controlling gang full control of militia - it's good as it is right now.
Many people tend to think that big gangs have magical outposts, where armors weapons appears from nowhere and ammunition/drugs are magically created. Or that there are millions of 5mm ammo and so on.
No.
Every big gang has its methods to maintain its items. If a gang gives up looting, then he'll end without anything, because sometimes you won, and sometimes you lose (and enemies take your items away). Every big gang has to maintain its supply of ammo and/or drugs - if he fails at it, then it is no longer able to fight any organised groups in wasteland.
Of course we (I can speak about the gang which I'm part of) do all this for a good fight, as most of us don't like crafting/repairing/gathering much - that's why we liked CBT server so much :)
Yes, I agree with what Heckler said, totally.
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Only because the big gangs insist on fighting in such large groups so often. And using the best gear.
Little less emphasis on the best of the best and costs would not be so high... but that is another, horrible issue.
-I would simply not prefer Militia present at all. Ideas offered beforehand were musings and suggestions. As it stands, I see no point in their existence and all I have noticed is detrimental effects to the pvp state where they are present. It reminds me that ghoul sniper ages ago who camped in modoc brahmin pen. Anyone else remember how annoying that thing was?
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No one likes to lose, and you can get an advantage against your enemy in following ways:
1. using better stuff (which simply results in using best stuff possible)
2. taking more people with you (which results in taking as many as you can)
3. using better character builds than your foe, being more experienced
4. using tactical advantage like suprising attack, terrain, buildings and so on
5. using the most effective way of communication (big gangs use voice communication already)
First two of them are the easiest ones and you can't do anything with that. Don't expect people coming to big fights with shotguns and jackets because it's just not effective. The winner takes all, so it's better just to use better stuff and increase your chances of winning the battle.
Lack of militia resulted in dead towns and PKers/other people on worldmap. Now you can take town, guard it and make your own rules there (even if you want to make something as "every must have long hair or will be shot on sight". Yes, militia helps PKers to kill all on sight, but it helps antiPKers keeping the town safe even more.
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Gatling I don't understand your cusade against militia. The RP some TTTLA, some Wastelander and you make today in BH can't be possible without militia protection. All team of the big 3 agree with militia, I thing we can move to the next subject no?
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But Gatling mentioned interesting ideas
Militia by this token Should not be related to them, except to the town. Militia is made up of people from the area, normal people with guns defending their territory. If someone shoots at another wastelander there and not their town, they shouldn't give a shit. In-fact, if a gang shows up to oust the gang which is holding them hostage (because thats what 'controlling' the town amounts to, does it not?), militia I would think would welcome it, because the more dead wastelanders, the better for them. Not to mention that gangs don't actually invest anything Into the controlling of the town at all, except their gear, which they do for pvp anyway and not the towns benefit.
It could be interesting to make a difference between "raiders" gangs and "civilized" gangs which control the town. After taking control of the town, the gang can choose 2 options :
1) Protection : when a bad guy is killed in town by the militia, his stuff will have a replication time (30 sec or 60 sec). If the gang members don't take the stuff so this equipement go to the town supplies (not accessible to the gang). After 10 minutes (the time of replication of a milician) a new milician is created and he is equiped with this stuff that the bad guy lost.
2) Barbary : as it is now. The gang controling the town got all the stuff from the dead guys and the militia is the same. (this option can be ameliorated but I don't have much ideas about raiders).
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Only because the big gangs insist on fighting in such large groups so often. And using the best gear.
The game is like this because that's how you guys designed it. People will always play at the highest tier possible because it's the only way to win and no one plays a game to lose. They aren't "insisting", just using the framework provided.
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1) Protection : when a bad guy is killed in town by the militia, his stuff will have a replication time (30 sec or 60 sec). If the gang members don't take the stuff so this equipement go to the town supplies (not accessible to the gang). After 10 minutes (the time of replication of a milician) a new milician is created and he is equiped with this stuff that the bad guy lost.
Exploitable and annoying during defense of the town against enemy faction.
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Does millitia ruins your pvp experience?
Yes 36 (42.4%)
No 49 (57.6%)
Total Voters: 85
Almost half of votes are against militia, maybe its time to take this for serious?
On the server there is a lot of different gangs/organisations, but only a small percentage of them takes part of TC wars. Reason? - ofcourse they cant compare with more numberous organisations like rda,antypk alliance :o and even rogues. another issue is ..militia, yes militia! tc is about pvp not fighting with militia, we have a lot of problem with that, especialy when we have 4-6 players online, and want to play pvp.. but where, and how ?
sugestion for start ? reduce number of militia form 20 to 5-10
who need that militia anyway ? exept some scared cajuns afraid to fight event 10 agsint 3 ;)
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tc is about pvp
Well, obviously not, since there is militia.
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At least increase the price for militia.. omg i thought 1500 was too cheap.. and 500 is a joke
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Does millitia ruins your pvp experience?
Yes 36 (42.4%)
No 49 (57.6%)
Total Voters: 85
Almost half of votes are against militia, maybe its time to take this for serious?
On the server there is a lot of different gangs/organisations, but only a small percentage of them takes part of TC wars. Reason? - ofcourse they cant compare with more numberous organisations like rda,antypk alliance :o and even rogues. another issue is ..militia, yes militia! tc is about pvp not fighting with militia, we have a lot of problem with that, especialy when we have 4-6 players online, and want to play pvp.. but where, and how ?
sugestion for start ? reduce number of militia form 20 to 5-10
who need that militia anyway ? exept some scared cajuns afraid to fight event 10 agsint 3 ;)
Mushroom, I know you're smart enough to circle militia to strike us, like you did yesterday, when we were 6 defenders in the town...
:P
Seriously, for now it's holyday time, Big Gangs are not as numerous as during normal time, so PvP is not very intesresting. People don't want to take risks. But it doesn't mean we should remove militia just cause some of you feel demotivated, there're still few town control fights everyday.
Remember how defending a town was difficult before, people had to be very numerous to stand a chance. Now it's more balanced, in my opinion.
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tc is about pvp not fighting with militia, we have a lot of problem with that, especialy when we have 4-6 players online, and want to play pvp.. but where, and how ?
That's the true problem. Tc is the only way to pvp fights. We need other ways for this, and devs are working on it.
4 to 6 gang members just can't take control of a town. TC is just an excuse, not a goal.
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Heckler comon :> what tc fights ? there is only waiting and wasting drugs/ammo on militia then real fights nowdays.. its all about camping small room ( wich is impossible to counter) ..and wait , get militia and voila! you captured city! - very exciting!
i will paste you small part of talk on chat aobut militia, its essence, dont know what else i can add
<12:18:49> "Kartowka": another suggestion is to make militia like money in towns
<12:18:58> "Kartowka": first day like 5 militia
<12:19:19> "Kartowka": and while faction holding city for more time
<12:19:24> "Kartowka": number will increase
<12:19:41> "MSH": yes this is good one
<12:19:47> "Линнеа": 8-10 ok? no way, need swarm:D oh yes swaaaarm of ncp haha
<12:20:42> "Линнеа": but seriously.. wasnt the militia for preventing noobs for capturing?
<12:21:11> "Линнеа": well now its king of the hill system.. so militia is like.. nto needed
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I agree, Town Control fights are really boring since few weeks, but it's not cause of militia, people involved in TC just found the best place to hold a position on almost every map, THAT's the problem. Don't blame those poor milicians !!! :-[
Well, the actual number od milicians would be ok if they were spread on the whole map. For now, yeah, a pack of 20 standing in the same zone make defenders stay in the same area, and it maybe "ruins" PvP.
If you want to reduce their number, in compensation I suggest to make them a bit more efficient, they should not have knives or spears, for instance.
Kartowka": and while faction holding city for more time...number will increase...
Yeah, it's a good idea, but then again militia would have to be more efficient, because I don't see how it is possible to keep a town during few days with 3 guys armed with throwing knives....
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Pft, escalating numbers of Militia was my idea weeks ago, thieves! But yes, it would sort some issues out.
Perhaps a shorter countdown (15 mins or so) then every 30 mins you get to add more Militia and they are spread out more throughout the town.
TC should still be about big warfare though, we can add other things for small numbers.
Which leads me to:
No one likes to lose, and you can get an advantage against your enemy in following ways:
1. using better stuff (which simply results in using best stuff possible)
2. taking more people with you (which results in taking as many as you can)
3. using better character builds than your foe, being more experienced
4. using tactical advantage like suprising attack, terrain, buildings and so on
5. using the most effective way of communication (big gangs use voice communication already)
1&2 we can control in various ways, where applicable. 3,4 & 5 are obviously fine.
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1. What we need is:
<12:18:49> "Kartowka": another suggestion is to make militia like money in towns
<12:18:58> "Kartowka": first day like 5 militia
<12:19:19> "Kartowka": and while faction holding city for more time
<12:19:24> "Kartowka": number will increase
And in addition to that:
2. Disable respawns of dead militia - it truly sucks, especially in the middle of the battle. You want to have more militia, you buy them.
3. Add a delay to buy militia when you take the town: in many situations, gangs camp small room just waiting for the counter to end, then they buy militia to deal with attackers, and this is really annoying. When you take the town, you shouldn't be able to buy militia immediately - I think some 30/45 mins would be good.
4. Town control taking counter should be made shorter, but that was mentioned before. About 15mins should be good.. and if not, then you can always change it to 20, okay?
5. There is an option to add ally factions in Modoc. I tested it a bit and it worked fine. We need that in every town, it's a good feature.
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3. Add a delay to buy militia when you take the town: in many situations, gangs camp small room just waiting for the counter to end, then they buy militia to deal with attackers, and this is really annoying. When you take the town, you shouldn't be able to buy militia immediately - I think some 30/45 mins would be good.
Cool, you take the town (25 boring mins, noone attack you because you have a strong position), and like you won't wait 30/45 more min in town/over map, you leave and the other gang immediately take it, impossible to attack him because of the position.
Not a solution.
4. Town control taking counter should be made shorter, but that was mentioned before. About 15mins should be good.. and if not, then you can always change it to 20, okay?
I think everyone agree with that, damn, 25 min is too long! 15 is enough!
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15 is not enough if u want to defend the city, only reloging takes 3-10 minutes, 25 min is alright, ammo and stuff is too expensive thats the problem if it didnt take so much time to craft people would like to fight battles instead of camping in a small room
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Reloging ?
What for ?
:P
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ok tc is quite dead to me, im going stop playing till devs will not remove militia
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ok tc is quite dead to me, im going stop playing till devs will not remove militia
Is that a menace or why do you tell us? :P
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ok tc is quite dead to me, im going stop playing till devs will not remove militia
wtf...
Militia is not the problem. If actually the only thing we fight in TC is militia is because the king of the hill, teams have found the best tactics, and noone can manage to break the defenses. So you just wait the end of the timer, let them take the town, come later, kill militia, take back the town, and wait 25 min in your position impossible to attack.
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ok tc is quite dead to me, im going stop playing till devs will not remove militia
Oh, What are we going to do now... The gameplay is senseless for now. Let's cut the veins together :(
Seriously, the problem is constant camping, as Crazy said already. It's senseless, even if any gang is able to rush the buildings successfully then there will be a person who gets bored of his life and game and just turn owner into None.
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people think about it, if the stuff ws cheaper people would like to fight instead of standing inside a room, thats the problem, the stuff is too expensive, nobody likes to sit for 25 min doing nothing
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<12:18:49> "Kartowka": another suggestion is to make militia like money in towns
<12:18:58> "Kartowka": first day like 5 militia
<12:19:19> "Kartowka": and while faction holding city for more time
<12:19:24> "Kartowka": number will increase
<12:19:41> "MSH": yes this is good one
<12:19:47> "Линнеа": 8-10 ok? no way, need swarm:D oh yes swaaaarm of ncp haha
<12:20:42> "Линнеа": but seriously.. wasnt the militia for preventing noobs for capturing?
<12:21:11> "Линнеа": well now its king of the hill system.. so militia is like.. nto needed
Yes, it was really idea of Solar and we only waiting for Atom scripts. But nevermind, its good idea for militia case.
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Or raise the price of militia which is quite overpowered. 500 caps for guy with gauss pistol... =,=
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Or raise the price of militia which is quite overpowered. 500 caps for guy with gauss pistol... =,=
500 cap for a leather jacket guy with a knife who gonna be killed in 2 hours.
And even your fucking gauss (or YK42b or whatever) gonna be killed in 2 hour without any difficulty.
Seriously...
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people think about it, if the stuff ws cheaper people would like to fight instead of standing inside a room, thats the problem, the stuff is too expensive, nobody likes to sit for 25 min doing nothing
The stuff is not expensive for big teams. We all have a lot of stuff and a lot of bases and we don't care about losing stuff during battle. It's more about pride and reputation of the gang.
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if i wanted to craft the stuff i lost only today i supposed to spend 3 days in a mine and im not a metal armor and lsw lover u are not right sir, stuff is time expensive and people dont want to lose it
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I said that "stuff is not expensive for big teams". We win more stuff than we lose and we have a good internal organisation so we don't lack of nothing ;)
The game is just unbalanced in this way because developers use to balance the game depending on the big teams and not on small teams or lonely players.
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500 cap for a leather jacket guy with a knife who gonna be killed in 2 hours.
And even your fucking gauss (or YK42b or whatever) gonna be killed in 2 hour without any difficulty.
Seriously...
Honestly they guy with such a stuff does much chaos in the lines of armies.
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the militia are NPCs, their AI has and most likely always wil be crap...
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Anyway I think it's right that now we know all tactics about TC and we are waiting for a new system.
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Maybe suggest something new then, instead of waiting? Others could benefit from your vast knowledge about tactics.
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Ho ho Kilgore is starting a trolling topic :D
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Don't really think it needs a new system, more like fixes to the current one. Drugs and windows were known about as issues when KotH system was decided upon and will be fixed in time. Drugs in particular need to wait for a wipe I think.
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nerf the sneak as well please Solar, it really doesnt make sense that only a 12 P uber char can do anything about it, sneak supposed to work against the walls and barrels etc ... then sneaker will really use his sneak skill ...
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Actually I thought Nice_Boat's idea about the sneakboy fixed any issues up pretty nicely.
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Ho ho Kilgore is starting a trolling topic :D
Some poor accusation instead of ANY way to "fix current system" is what I expected from such an experienced player as Pozzo.
Anyway, Solar, you mentioned befre that there are ways to deal with so-called "swarms". That's interesting because I don't think I've seen any attempt to deal with them throughout last 7 months (when some first big swarms were created).. or did I miss something?
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there is no way to do it, if they nerf the drugs will be even worse ( lowering the fire power of the richest players will make swarms even stronger )
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Some poor accusation instead of ANY way to "fix current system" is what I expected from such an experienced player as Pozzo.
Anyway, Solar, you mentioned befre that there are ways to deal with so-called "swarms". That's interesting because I don't think I've seen any attempt to deal with them throughout last 7 months (when some first big swarms were created).. or did I miss something?
You mean how to limit the number of players in a fight? You can have a location only accessable via some kind of NPC "Teleport" - A guy drives you in a car, for example - where only a limited amount of players can enter.
Not for TC, but in another system.
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Not for TC, but in another system.
This makes me hopeful.
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Well, you'll see various places where hints are dropped about different systems.
TC - for large scale stuff, as it is now.
This is called Domination and exists as a design doc since several weeks already. Testbed for it is supposed to come around in August, and will continue to expand as a part of a larger NPC factions system overhaul.
Atom mentions the Domination mode there.
I think the answer to an alternative PvP is NPC factions and a different system. TC could remain for the organised gangs and be cutthroat and the alternative system for smaller gangs, loners, new players (and even some of the gangs if they want).
Hopefully some kind of demonstration version of it will be ready before *too* long
These will be outside of towns, in self contained areas. (They have to be self contained areas because they would be using free equipment).
Then I talk about some other NPC Faction based version elsewhere.
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Ho ho Kilgore is starting a trolling topic :D
Apparently, You've found a best friend finally.
Well even He has some honor to prevent himself from claiming your trollmastah throne. Isn't it offtopic master?
Militia can be killed in a minute but it really depends on amount of players from gang. Honestly, game becomes kinda imbalanced because of sneakers which suddenly cannot be seen in front of you(do they wear invisibility cape which is invisible itself?). Then instants by BB guns and 10mm pistols. I really would like to know how does it happen. Hmm what else, perhaps creating out of sudden hundreds of gauss pistols and making armors weak as crap? you have to spend most day on crafting gay green armor to be accidently killed by a sneaker with... AVENGER. How the hell would you sneak with avenger and ammo. This game becomes more SCI FI than final fantasy: advent child...
@down
No.
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Apparently, You've found a best friend finally.
Well even He has some honor to prevent himself from claiming your trollmastah throne. Isn't it offtopic master?
Hé hé Kilgore is an old troll friend from the forest of trolls :D
But I guess you are a new challenger...
Militia can be killed in a minute but it really depends on amount of players from gang. Honestly, game becomes kinda imbalanced because of sneakers which suddenly cannot be seen in front of you(do they wear invisibility cape which is invisible itself?). Then instants by BB guns and 10mm pistols. I really would like to know how does it happen. Hmm what else, perhaps creating out of sudden hundreds of gauss pistols and making armors weak as crap? you have to spend most day on crafting gay green armor to be accidently killed by a sneaker with... AVENGER. How the hell would you sneak with avenger and ammo. This game becomes more SCI FI than final fantasy: advent child...
Please could you say something that has not been said hundreds of time ? :)
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Pozzo you are such a tactician... please share your experience with us!
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Hé hé Kilgore is an old troll friend from the forest of trolls :D
But I guess you are a new challenger...
Please could you say something that has not been said hundreds of time ? :)
well, when u say that, Solar comes and says that he uses a 300 sneak char as well, and the only thing that must be changed is something about looting stuff,
tons of sneakers that fight, shoot with avengers, plasma, nades, lsws and lasers is alright, if u dont see them from 4 hexes when u have 8 perception which is GOOD in a the open field is alright as well ( for the good sake press char button and check 8 P , it says GOOD or very good)....
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Pozzo you are such a tactician... please share your experience with us!
*big hug to Kilgore*
pouyou pouyou pouyou gouzi gouzi
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Hum, end of troll please? Has this topic still a point?
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Hum, end of troll please? Has this topic still a point?
When I look on Pozzo's posts, I don't think so.
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(http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/8807/disagreementhierarchy.jpg) (http://img823.imageshack.us/i/disagreementhierarchy.jpg/)
No wonder you guys don't make charisma builds.
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still militia around ?
my team will be no active in fonline till devs remove, or change numbers of militia - i hope you having fun without us :p
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still militia around ?
my team will be no active in fonline till devs remove, or change numbers of militia - i hope you having fun without us :p
Have fun while not playing the game.
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still militia around ?
my team will be no active in fonline till devs remove, or change numbers of militia - i hope you having fun without us :p
And praise yourself more how much you are pwning factions without participating in TC. Have fun.