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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => News and Announcements => Topic started by: Atom on June 28, 2012, 09:25:45 pm

Title: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Atom on June 28, 2012, 09:25:45 pm
FIXES:
- Silent Death works with 14mm and .223 pistols.
- Kamikaze now reduces Damage Resistances instead of Damage Thresholds.
- Bear trap graphics.
- Stability and performence fixes.
- Fibers visible in field of view only.
- VTDB should save characters data correctly now.
- Browsing in faction terminals.
- Metzger slave run locations should no longer disappear prematurely.
- Toxic Caves elevator.
- Extended some maps near specific entrances that would lock the client's vision.
- Patched ghost wall holes in certain maps.
- Ghost perk.
- FOV and weapon range contours should be displayed correctly. Also see the fog of war (Features).
- Many dialogs errors.
- Minor stuff.

FEATURES:
- Added the display of fog of war (shadow over the area outside FOV).
  * to enable it, bind it to a hotkey using 2238 config tool. Use the hotkey to toggle its display in game.
  * to change the fog color, add the following string to FOnline2238.cfg in [2238] section:
  * FogColor = R G B A
  * where R, G, B and A range from 0 to 255.
  * there might be a slight difference between FOV contours and the fog of war boundary due to different drawing methods - no need to report that unless the difference is big.
- A new repeatable quest, talk to Martin at Westin's Ranch.

CHANGES (WIP):
- Gun Runners courier quest: box is removed after succesful lockpick.
- Right between the eyes mow reduces Helmet Anti Crit Modifier by 50% instead of 25%.
- Helmet Anti Crit Modifiers doubled.
- Adrenaline Rush increases Damage Resistances by 15, 10, 5 and Damage Thresholds by 3, 2, 1 when current HP is below (or equal to) 25%, 50% and 75% of total HP respectively. This is not cumulative.
- Removed cap for Armor Class.
- Updated the base config tool. Changed FixedFPS setting behaviour: negative values disable fixed fps rate and instead work like old GameSleep (value taken negative, i.e. FixedFPS=-5 is equivalent to old GameSleep=5). Using negative values can greatly increase the performance on older machines, be sure to check it out. If in doubt, start with values around -2. Remeber that FixedFPS setting is ignored when you enable VSync.
- Armour condition drops by half on violent death (instad of flat 75p%) decrease.
- Changed Gunrunners Courier Job: Decreased reputation needed to enter the faction to 900. Added limit of max. 1000 reputation being possible to gain from doing the job.
- Increased damage and clip size for XL70E3.
- Minor resistance modifier increase for JHP ammo.
- Advanced materials crafting batches.
- Adjusted critical hit tables.

EXTRA NOTES:
- Run the updater to obtain the new files.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: S.T.A.L.K.E.R on June 28, 2012, 09:29:06 pm
AAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWW YYYYYYEEEEEEEEAAHHHHHHHHHH

better than nothing at least
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: EnergyForYou on June 28, 2012, 09:30:15 pm
Whooow finally!
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: DeputyDope on June 28, 2012, 09:32:33 pm
brilliant!
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Beret on June 28, 2012, 09:33:31 pm
HOLY SHIT?! WHAT IS THIS?! YAY!  ;D ;D ;D ;D
But what is with rollback? You fixed this?
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: kompreSor on June 28, 2012, 09:35:05 pm
when change TC system!
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: avv on June 28, 2012, 09:36:10 pm
Thanks for update.

when change TC system!

Soon.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: davrot on June 28, 2012, 09:36:36 pm
DEVS = GODS
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Hovinko on June 28, 2012, 09:39:37 pm
Adjusted critical hit tables.

Most important change of whole pvp. Any details? :)
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: McBorn on June 28, 2012, 09:42:04 pm
Nice job, but the biggiest problems still remain:
- fast relog (multi-log), TC
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: AtomicWrangler on June 28, 2012, 09:42:55 pm
THANK YOU!
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: GeFox on June 28, 2012, 09:50:11 pm
Woo! Thanks guys, one step at a time.  ;D
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: manero on June 28, 2012, 10:00:51 pm
FIXES:
- Silent Death works with 14mm and .223 pistols.

IS THIS IS A JOKE?

SD STILL WORKS WITH GRANADES. STILL SUCKS BALLS!! IT WAS SAID NUMEROUS TIME, NERF IT NOT BOOST IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Seriously... Big disappointment...  :-\
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Prze-Huy on June 28, 2012, 10:03:36 pm
yeah :) ty!
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: S.T.A.L.K.E.R on June 28, 2012, 10:10:07 pm
woot! NCR army back, hope same with the other ones
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: manero on June 28, 2012, 10:24:35 pm
Ok i calmed down. Conclusion:

-No TC fix
-Ridiculous Silent Death boost instead of nerf.


I can't believe you don't understand that pvplayers are blood of this server. So why you don't make update for them? Why this update looks 'random and unfinished'?

Nothing will change after that update because you don't care about about players opinion/suggestions. Server will be still empty.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Uftak on June 28, 2012, 10:24:49 pm
Seriously... Big disappointment...  :-\
Double loggin' is still alive.... It ain't a big disappointment, it's a disastah!
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Brujah on June 28, 2012, 10:29:44 pm
(http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/gallery/aww-yea-guy/aww-yea-meme-original.jpg)
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Mayck on June 28, 2012, 10:50:05 pm
For those who are unsuccessfully trying to make the fog of war work follow these steps:
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: wladimiiir on June 28, 2012, 10:58:12 pm
Wow, thanks. See you in half a year ;D
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Fettel on June 28, 2012, 11:06:47 pm
wohoo
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Xisingr Will on June 28, 2012, 11:08:57 pm
Thanks to me and Brujah's effort of sacrificing children to the rollback god, the rollbacks have ended.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Ganado on June 28, 2012, 11:09:07 pm
Awesome, I had gone for a couple hours, and when I came back... surprise, an update! I couldn't believe my eyes...

Quote
...the rollbacks have ended.
Don't jinx it!
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: wladimiiir on June 28, 2012, 11:26:49 pm
I can't believe you don't understand that pvplayers are blood of this server
No. Roleplayers are blood of this server [evil laugh].
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: falloutdude on June 28, 2012, 11:31:38 pm
i have to say this update is a fail. no major fixes like tc or total remove of sd just minor shit that wont bring anyone back to playing.
but atleast devs finally did something. soo yea for devs. now about this tc and sd problem. maybe fix this now. thanks in advance from me and manero.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Xisingr Will on June 28, 2012, 11:37:20 pm
Well i think it is pathetic about all these people complaining.....this isn't your game this is the devs, its up to them that you even PLAY the game.... it is there project and they can work at whatever pace they want, so please just stop complaining people.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: manero on June 28, 2012, 11:46:47 pm
Well i think it is pathetic about all these people complaining...

Its called 'various opinions'.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: 187umkillass on June 29, 2012, 12:07:46 am
(...)this isn't your game this is the devs, its up to them that you even PLAY the game...., so please just stop complaining people.

So, Donate then mate.....<beer>
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Hects Hakal on June 29, 2012, 12:16:30 am
I take back all the bad things i said... Prepare wasteland,im returning back to you ;D
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Wichura on June 29, 2012, 12:58:30 am
Ok i calmed down.
FIX TC NAO!!1111

Pity, when you unleash your fury you seem to be much funnier than you already are.

I can't believe you don't understand that pvplayers are blood of this server. So why you don't make update for them?
No. Roleplayers are blood of this server [evil laugh].
You both are wrong. NCR idlers are blood of this server, only they remained.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: BLDYMSS on June 29, 2012, 01:37:34 am
Hello, love the game, playing since the start of third season.
I really would like to update and get this, when using updater:

Connecting to the update server...
Can't connect to the update server (176.9.105.171).

In an older thread someone says it may be because update server might be down, is this the case right now?
And how do i put the server info into the updater, ip seems to be right, port number 4040 i dont see..
I tried Foconfig.exe/Fo2238config.exe and the .cfg documents, but nowhere an option to enter update server specs..  ???

I hope to be in the wastes again soon, and am sorry if this is off-topic. I have no searching-talents :P
THX in advance

BLDYMSS
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Hololasima on June 29, 2012, 01:42:47 am
That changelog looks good. I didnt expect that and +10 to devs. But must agree with one little thingie what manero said. Silent Death and grenades(TM). It was said zilion times that those grenades need nerf.

But i dont complaining, its surprise as hell and i like it  8)
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Brujah on June 29, 2012, 04:51:05 am
Thanks to me and Brujah's effort of sacrificing children to the rollback god, the rollbacks have ended.

Indeed we have Will... Indeed we have...
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: codave on June 29, 2012, 04:56:03 am
Wait, I though server dead, dev's lazy, dev's won't update.  :::pounds chest like caveman:::

So, you guys didn't get everything you want.  Are you at least satisfied that they still intend to work on the game?  Or are you still going to be petulant children because shit isn't getting done at a speed up to par with your expectations?

Good update, looking forward to checking some of this out...
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: TKs-KaBoom on June 29, 2012, 05:32:58 am
I'm not one to endlessly post, but They have reintroduced ncr army and bos initiate patrols.  I like :)
GJ devs, I won't ever donate a dime, but still GJ.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: chocolate_chip_cookies on June 29, 2012, 05:54:32 am
Hey I like this. It's better than I expected.
Looks like the rework with criticals reworked whole fights. They seem to last longer. Or is it just me?

I didn't read any of the comments on this topic before me so I can't tell what people are complaining about..

But obviously TC isn't fixed yet so still waiting for that.

But... HQ FIBERS AND HQ CHEM COMPONENT WHERE ARE YOU?
And I think crafting overall needs a rework and boost. Not worth to craft anything these days...

And Solar (I think) promised us jukeboxes in bars!

Still haven't tested the field of view thing but I think it should be for everyone and not that you have to go create key binds and change config yourself (assuming that it's cool)
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Stration on June 29, 2012, 08:02:00 am
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Cyber Jesus on June 29, 2012, 08:23:10 am
Good job and I tought you were all dead :(
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: jacky. on June 29, 2012, 10:47:22 am
Please no sd and tc update. No armor durability update, no new bps, i agree with manero. It wont bring people back. I wont come back for those low rating changes.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: manero on June 29, 2012, 11:34:04 am
This is how CHANGELOG should looks like:

- SD removed or SD works only with single shot attacks.
- TC changed(TC info, 15 minutes timer, militia&mercs removed from TC system)
- Brotherhood armor/helmet craftable/obtainable
- Armor deterioration system changed
- Crits for bursts changed
- Missing blueprints and materials added
- Missing caravans added

It's essential if you want players back. Is it so hard?
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: JovankaB on June 29, 2012, 11:35:15 am
- Brotherhood armor/helmet craftable/obtainable

Nice try :P
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: manero on June 29, 2012, 11:37:17 am
Nice try :P

Avanger/Gatling damage was boosted, brotherhood armors were removed. I don't see sense. Both are used in Hinkley and i don't see any problems there. Avanger/Gatling is powerfull, BA is very good. Good balance. Outside of Hinkley there is no weapon/armor balance. But you are Jovanka...
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: JovankaB on June 29, 2012, 11:43:55 am
Sorry, for some reason I read Brotherhood armor and I thought you mean PA :P
I thought there was some plan to make BA obtainable, too lazy to search devs posts on forum.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: T-888 on June 29, 2012, 11:52:40 am
Sorry, for some reason I read Brotherhood armor and I thought you mean PA :P
I thought there was some plan to make BA obtainable, too lazy to search devs posts on forum.

That was Solars plan to make BA a rare item, obtainable by npc faction quests, limited in some way. Same thought was for avenger miniguns that are obtainable from Enclave patrols, only that didn't work out so good. What a waste of time ...

for topic itself

Quote
<lexx> the patch content was done over the past months since the last update. so if there is something inside that you find shit or whatever unfitting, it probably was done 5 months ago.

Update for just the sake of update ... don't care if the changes are necessary or what is done, just update. ;D cracks me up
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Simon on June 29, 2012, 12:22:42 pm
This is how CHANGELOG should looks like:

- SD removed or SD works only with single shot attacks.
- TC changed(TC info, 15 minutes timer, militia&mercs removed from TC system)
- Brotherhood armor/helmet craftable/obtainable
- Armor deterioration system changed
- Crits for bursts changed
- Missing blueprints and materials added
- Missing caravans added

It's essential if you want players back. Is it so hard?
Sounds good to me, best of all, it doesn't even conflict or interrupt with normal players/roleplayers/ncr idlers actions.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Barons on June 29, 2012, 12:27:30 pm
after the update I can not connect when I turn on the game such a picture: http://pokazywarka.pl/g1mghq/
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Nice_Boat on June 29, 2012, 12:30:21 pm
After all the negative feedback this patch is more or less a slap to the face for the PvP players. I mean hell, the fixes Manero writes about could be done by a trained monkey in about a week, and that includes training time ::) And don't even get me started on balance changes, shit like the removal of AC cap or SD buff is like adding insult to injury. I agree with falloutdude, this is not going to bring people back, it might actually drive a few away. Anyway, this one little thingie really cracked me up:
Quote
Increased damage and clip size for XL70E3
Quote
clip
IT'S A MAGAZINE, GARAND AND K98K HAVE CLIPS.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: jacky. on June 29, 2012, 01:02:18 pm
223 pistol with sd - 250+ damage in 30hex range. Good job. Needler was fine laser pistol too but grenades are op. Now sg is op and grenades are op. Good job. 14mm bypass -50% + -50% resistance...wtf this is what you call balance? Sd spamming 4ever
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: McBorn on June 29, 2012, 01:32:17 pm

You forgot to fast relog limit, am I right? It is the biggest problem for pvp and the reason why most people stopped playing.

Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: JovankaB on June 29, 2012, 02:03:56 pm
It's not a slap to anyone. Devs just work on things that are interesting for them.
It would be stupid to work on something for free if it's not interesting, fun or
motivating in any other way. I doubt constant bitching on forum is motivating.

You don't know what you ask for, if you want someone to work for you for
a week straight without any positive incentive. I remember some players
were taken 2 years ago to do some simple but boring job (fixboy recipes)
and they were tired after one hour. Remember for devs it's a HOBBY just
like for players playing the game, and nobody here owes you anything.

at the end of the day, the game is our hobby and not our job, a lot of the time some feature that gets one or more of us interested in it can jump to the head of the queue.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: McBorn on June 29, 2012, 02:11:59 pm
Yea, of course, whatever.

But remember, basic things that people crave, which had already been created in the past, so it is not something unrealistic (it existed already!).
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Nice_Boat on June 29, 2012, 02:16:10 pm
It's not a slap to anyone. Devs just work on things that are interesting for them.
It would be stupid to work on something for free if it's not interesting, fun or
motivating in any other way. I doubt constant bitching on forum is motivating.

You don't know what you ask for, if you want someone to work for you for
a week straight without any positive incentive. Remember it's a HOBBY and
nobody here owes you anything.

That's a bullshit approach and you know it. At the end of the day it's just a game competing with other games whether it's free or not. The players are not here to give the devs personal counseling or help them with their motivational problems, they're here to have fun. With the amount of things the 2238 team managed to mess up and their awful attitude they should be glad they're receiving any feedback at all, even if it's negative. And yeah, it is their game so they're absolutely free to kill it or take a dump on their playerbase - but expecting praise for doing just that is beyond ridiculous. In the end it's not the nay-sayers who are full of false entitlement because we just voice our opinion and quit when we've had enough. On the other hand, you (meaning the devs, the GMs and the rest of the bunch) are the very definition of false entitlement because you're expecting praise for a crappy product only because it's hurr-free-durr.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Ganado on June 29, 2012, 02:17:27 pm
IT'S A MAGAZINE, GARAND AND K98K HAVE CLIPS.
Ahah, yes you're right. I remember some old games from the 90s always referring to it as a clip.

PS: Devs, I remember some plan for blueprints to be added to caves, yes? I hope that is still planned... there needs to be more options for blueprints. And... Improved Flamer BP pl0x.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: A concerned wastelander on June 29, 2012, 06:42:44 pm
- Removed cap for Armor Class.

Did you really think about this?
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: T-888 on June 29, 2012, 06:45:03 pm
Everything was thought about.

Quote
<lexx> the patch content was done over the past months since the last update. so if there is something inside that you find shit or whatever unfitting, it probably was done 5 months ago.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Dark Angel on June 29, 2012, 08:04:47 pm
I still dont see any TC, crits and deteration changes.

See u soon.
Hope there will be any changelogs in next year.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Xisingr Will on June 29, 2012, 08:12:19 pm
That's a bullshit approach and you know it. At the end of the day it's just a game competing with other games whether it's free or not. The players are not here to give the devs personal counseling or help them with their motivational problems, they're here to have fun. With the amount of things the 2238 team managed to mess up and their awful attitude they should be glad they're receiving any feedback at all, even if it's negative. And yeah, it is their game so they're absolutely free to kill it or take a dump on their playerbase - but expecting praise for doing just that is beyond ridiculous. In the end it's not the nay-sayers who are full of false entitlement because we just voice our opinion and quit when we've had enough. On the other hand, you (meaning the devs, the GMs and the rest of the bunch) are the very definition of false entitlement because you're expecting praise for a crappy product only because it's hurr-free-durr.
One thing.....Shut the fuck up and just play the damn game......no one cares about your petty whining of how bad the game is bla bla bla so just play the damn game and be quiet.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: T-888 on June 29, 2012, 08:15:22 pm
no one cares

I do, you don't.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: John.Metzger on June 29, 2012, 08:37:48 pm
..
See u soon.
Hope there will be any changelogs in next year.

you don't give up the hope and intend to come back, thats nice.  ;)
i have also time to "wait" a year or even ten.
and still enjoy playing a constantly developing, unfinished gamemod, for sure.
thanks for your attention to development and testing status
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Reconite on June 29, 2012, 08:50:06 pm
Aaaaand, the game is still dead.

For there to be any return to the populated days of 2238, your main priority should be to fix town control. This means removing fucking Mercs/Militia (because having 20 AI-controlled NPCs with lightning fast reaction times and the best weapons and stats in the game all pile on a player after he alerts the horde is not fun, it's all well and good if it's a player because it relies on his own reaction times and not an aimbot who can shoot you the nanosecond you appear into LoS with only 1 hex before you disappear behind a building again) and bringing back something closer to the old "time window" system. The way it is now is and always has been just blatantly broken, especially with that TC points shit.

Listen to my-, no, listen to all our advice, Manero's especially because what he wrote is almost exactly what the game needs right now, as well as maybe another wipe along with more changes, such as making random special encounters not refined to certain zones but spread over the whole world map (who the fuck thought this was a good idea in the first place, it's just like you WANTED people to be constantly farming them for Gauss Pistols, the best sniper weapon currently available in the game, in an area where no one would find it unless they had prior knowledge because it's off the routes between towns), of course you would probably need to make them a bit rarer in this case.

Silent Death needs to have functionality removed from grenades so one guy can't melt a group of 4 people who have just entered a zone in one sneak critical. This is an even worse problem than sneak bursting was, because it has the exact same end scene of a player dead in one hit, but this time it's multiple players and you can do it from the grenade's max range, just make it work with Single Shot pistols and you're good, that's all it really needs, with .223 and 14mm it would still be worth using without being overpowered.

Caravans, Patrols, Brotherhood Armor and etc. NEED to be added back in, as much as you may hate people "farming" for items, for whatever fucking reason (it's an MMO, farming is GOING to happen whether you like it or not, in some form or another), your game still severely lacks content so the last thing you should be doing is REMOVING things for players to do. It's the same as BioWare trying to get people to stop farming in The Old Republic, except, for how bad that game is, it probably has more to do in it than 2238. Stop removing stuff so you can add a different way to obtain the items later, you're meant to ADD the different way to obtain stuff and THEN remove the old way. The game is suffering majorly because you have ignored this problem.

You're not supposed to remove grinding from a game with PvP like the way you have done, it ensures that nobody except the highest tier groups will be able to get ANYWHERE in the game due to stunting their ability to obtain items. While people with access to town control lockers get richer by 1000 Drug items and 10000 ammo per day or whatever ridiculous number it was. The last time the game was populated it was still like the same 3-4 groups all vying for control, and that's all it will ever be if you keep this stupid system.

Don't get me wrong, since the last wipe the game has been drastically improved over the old versions, with the new perks system, and the ideas of making areas with Advanced Workbenches and such more PvP orientated, but any reason to play after you cap at 24 is gone, thanks to Solar or whoever is in charge of TC's apparent lack of fucks given about said feature. This update, as has been said, has seemingly come out of nowhere, it's an update for the sake of there being an update, a bunch of unrelated features that have taken several months to implement. If you want this game to survive you have to start listening to the people who actually give a shit about it, otherwise you may as well give up on it because at this point it's stuck on failing life support and is just waiting to die.

P.S. The Pancor Jackhammer Shotguns in general still SUCK MAJOR DICK AND YOU SHOULD FIX THEM. There has been like a bajillion threads on the subject, but Solar's max 16 range baby refuses to change. Going on about how much damage they do doesn't mean shit when you have to run 15 hexes into Minigun range just to use it, and it does worse damage than a Minigun at that range. Maybe you could play cover-shooter if this game had any semblance of a strategical element to it, but alas, it does not. Give them some fucking ammo variants, it's a small step towards making them useful.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Mike Crosser on June 29, 2012, 09:07:59 pm
Ummm small suggestion for the next update:Bring back 10mm smg to encounters seriously the m1a1 grease gun is way overused for a WWII gun.Seriously 10smg isn't even a terrebly good weapon.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: avv on June 29, 2012, 09:23:54 pm
I agree with this. If the devs want to make the game enjoyable to play they should really listen to the playerbase.

But who are the playerbase? We got guys with good points, trolls, angry ragers and misguided people who don't know the game thoroughly. Devs don't play the game, so anyone with some writing skills can make his ideas sound like the game really needs them. Same people have the ability to supress actually good suggestions by blatant nonsense. Good example is a guy who claimed sd sneaks are fine and gave some reasons which might sound rational to anyone who doesn't actually play the game.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: John.Metzger on June 29, 2012, 09:38:00 pm
Ummm small suggestion for the next update:Bring back 10mm smg to encounters seriously the m1a1 grease gun is way overused for a WWII gun.Seriously 10smg isn't even a terrebly good weapon.
10mm ammo makes impressive crits in comparison to greasegun ammo if i remember right, also a full loaded greasegun nicely lost all their ammu with a unlucky critical fail.. thats annoying, but balanced somehow. for example, those time where you was able to get massive amounts of 10mm ammo in boneyard was ridiculous..  :-\ and .45 ammu is more easy to craft, less materials, less dmg output.. fits somehow..

..and misguided people who don't know the game thoroughly.....
iam one of them. thanks for counting us in that enumeration.
fortunately iam not one of them:
anyone with some writing skills can make his ideas sound like the game really needs them. Same people have the ability to supress actually good suggestions by blatant nonsense.
would be a mess
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Mike Crosser on June 29, 2012, 09:54:48 pm
Still its weird that everyone is using a WWII gun wich should be more rare and powerfull than the more common modern 10mm smg, you know just like in Fallout 2.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: John.Metzger on June 29, 2012, 09:59:04 pm
yeah.. balance and logic aren´t married here.. :(
maybe someday the balance will be brave enough to ask for it, but for now....
Well then someone better tell gamebalance needs to hurry the fuck up.
there are a lot of people who telling many things into the face of  the game balance right now..
but its not about converting reality into gamebalance, more about balancing it at all..  :-X
enough of this spammy posts, iam out
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Mike Crosser on June 29, 2012, 10:00:42 pm
yeah.. gamebalance and reallifelogic aren´t married.. :(
maybe someday the gamebalance will be brave enough to ask for it, but for now....
Well then someone better tell gamebalance needs to hurry the fuck up.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: BLDYMSS on June 29, 2012, 11:13:31 pm
Hello, love the game, playing since the start of third season.
I really would like to update and get this, when using updater:

Connecting to the update server...
Can't connect to the update server (176.9.105.171).

In an older thread someone says it may be because update server might be down, is this the case right now?
And how do i put the server info into the updater, ip seems to be right, port number 4040 i dont see..
I tried Foconfig.exe/Fo2238config.exe and the .cfg documents, but nowhere an option to enter update server specs..  ???

I hope to be in the wastes again soon, and am sorry if this is off-topic. I have no searching-talents :P
THX in advance

BLDYMSS


't was the firewall, damn i'm stupid. ;D
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: John.Metzger on June 29, 2012, 11:31:18 pm

't was the firewall, damn i'm stupid. ;D

i bet the developers said the same about server and rollback issues  ;D
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Nice_Boat on June 29, 2012, 11:41:05 pm
One thing.....Shut the fuck up and just play the damn game......no one cares about your petty whining of how bad the game is bla bla bla so just play the damn game and be quiet.
I'm too busy working on another project to play a broken team shooter.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Xisingr Will on June 29, 2012, 11:47:47 pm
I'm too busy working on another project to play a broken team shooter.
Than why are you still here complaining about how bad the game is?
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: T-888 on June 29, 2012, 11:49:20 pm
I'm too busy working on another project to play a broken team shooter.

what a failure ... go badass, shows us how it's done.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Nice_Boat on June 29, 2012, 11:53:04 pm
Than why are you still here complaining about how bad the game is?
Because I'm nice enough to still give a fuck or two about 2238's fate.

what a failure ... go badass, shows us how it's done.
::)
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: manero on June 30, 2012, 12:02:35 am
A little of new crit table:

SNIPER RIFLE + more critical + even more critical + better crits + rbte VS Combat Helmet + bonehead + man of steel + 1 luck;) ...
23:51:11 • Lotrzyca was critically hit in the eyes for 32 hit points.
23:51:14 • Lotrzyca was critically hit in the eyes for 16 hit points.
23:51:28 • Lotrzyca was critically hit in the eyes for 18 hit points.
23:51:33 • Lotrzyca was critically hit in the eyes for 23 hit points.
23:51:36 • Lotrzyca was critically hit in the eyes for 18 hit

No bypass against 1 lk and crits for 30 dmg max...

LASER RIFLE + more critical + even more critical + better crits + rbte  VS Metal helmet mk. 1 + bonehead + stonewall + 5 luck 
23:45:49 • Warthog was critically hit in the eyes for 41 hit points.
23:46:04 • Warthog was critically hit in the eyes for 29 hit points.
23:46:09 • Warthog was critically hit in the eyes for 31 hit points.
23:46:25 • Warthog was critically hit in the eyes for 40 hit points.
23:46:30 • Warthog was critically hit in the eyes for 34 hit points.
23:46:35 • Warthog was critically hit in the eyes for 32 hit points.
23:46:41 • Warthog was critically hit in the eyes for 31 hit points.
23:47:53 • Warthog was critically hit in the eyes for 43 hit points.
23:47:54 • Warthog was critically hit in the eyes for 40 hit points and blinded.
23:47:58 • Warthog was critically hit in the eyes for 38 hit points.
23:48:02 • Warthog was critically hit in the eyes for 43 hit points.

No bypass again and max laser crit dmg 45 wtf?

AVANGER MINIGUN + various BRD combination vs Combat Armor mk2/Broterhood Armor 100% + various toughness combination

00:15:35 • Blackbird was critically hit for 224 hit points and was killed.
00:15:39 • You were critically hit for 287 hit points and were killed.
00:16:39 • Witch was critically hit for 252 hit points and was killed.
00:18:47 • Üůĺđóęŕăńëóę was critically hit for 287 hit points and was killed.
00:18:50 • You were critically hit for 174 hit points.
00:19:44 • Üůĺđóęŕăńëóę was critically hit for 105 hit points.
00:19:45 • You were critically hit for 222 hit points and were killed.
00:22:02 • SleepyHollow was critically hit for 219 hit points.
00:22:21 • Witch was critically hit for 199 hit points and was killed.
00:22:31 • Üůĺđóęŕăńëóę was critically hit for 220 hit points and was killed.
00:23:22 • SleepyHollow was critically hit for 225 hit points and was killed.
00:25:33 • Witch was critically hit for 209 hit points and was killed.
00:26:34 • Üůĺđóęŕăńëóę was critically hit for 226 hit points and was killed.

Still insta kills. Crit bursts should have x 1.5 dmg modificator not bigger.


For those who don't understand. Something went terribly wrong here.

Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: T-888 on June 30, 2012, 12:06:57 am
Because I'm nice enough to still give a fuck or two about 2238's fate.


Nice_boat tell a lie, there are plenty enough players that still " give a fuck ", though none so noble and relentless as you. ;D


Manero why didn't you report it in bug section?
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Nice_Boat on June 30, 2012, 12:12:28 am
Nice_boat tell a lie, there are plenty enough players that still " give a fuck ", though none so noble and relentless as you. ;D
Doesn't change the fact I've been warning the devs about this even before you started playing, so why don't you just piss off and try trolling someone else?

How nice of you. I'm sure they have considered your vast knowledge, and wise counsel over these past few years.

So basically your saying that you have been anoying for a much longer time than i thought?
Christ, do you even know what PMs are for, or are you so childish you think that talking smack to me in public is making you look cool? And yeah, they actually have implemented some of my ideas, but you wouldn't know about that. So how about you stop acting like a spoiled brat, eh?
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: T-888 on June 30, 2012, 12:20:12 am
How nice of you. I'm sure they have considered your vast knowledge, and wise counsel over these past few years.

So basically your saying that you have been anoying for a much longer time than i thought?

arguing with you feels like beating on a dead horse

Yeah, yeah. Keep on mocking developers, i'm sure your the right man to listen. I guess they won't make the same mistake twice.

I'm too busy working on another project to play a broken team shooter.

Is this supposed to make you look cool too? :) :) :)
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: John.Metzger on June 30, 2012, 12:27:22 am
I'm too busy working on another project to play a broken team shooter.

would be cool to know about, what youre doing?
you talk that much about the dev´s work.. tell us something about you..  :)

>edit< could use the search function uh, maybe i´ll find some PR for it in that forum/subforum ;)
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Wichura on June 30, 2012, 12:34:39 am
would be cool to know about, what youre doing?
you talk that much about the dev´s work.. tell us something about you..  :)
How about that little fella (http://www.newfmc.pl/wasteland2155/board/)?

And no, I'm not working on this anymore, just trying to be helpful here.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: manero on June 30, 2012, 12:35:02 am
Manero why didn't you report it in bug section?

Im afraid it's not a bug but a feature...  ;)
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Nice_Boat on June 30, 2012, 12:35:56 am
...
Yeah, whatever you say, kid. I'm just a tryhard trying to look cool even though I hardly even use this board anymore. Christ, even trying to talk to you is just such a waste of time.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: John.Metzger on June 30, 2012, 12:45:52 am
How about that little fella (http://www.newfmc.pl/wasteland2155/board/)?

And no, I'm not working on this anymore, just trying to be helpful here.

thanks, didnt know you meant this, i remember beeing there for the first open test.. guns balancing and basic stuff.. dunno, quit it cause i think its not usefull to play many similar projects the same time or even split so called community to make "sumthin bettar".. iam sure nice boat heard alot similar comments about that already so nvm.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: T-888 on June 30, 2012, 12:59:21 am
I'm just a tryhard trying to look cool even though I hardly even use this board anymore.

Yeah kid, only the most active forum fighter, arrogance hits sky-high. I guess it's time for someone to blow off some steam, and it's sure not me. :)
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: avv on June 30, 2012, 01:20:33 am
I support Manero's opinion about critbursts and sd grenade sneaks. We pvp players don't want instakill features or randomness to ruin our fun. Some clueless smartguy will probably say something against this but here's the deal: randomness in pvp is differend thing than randomness in the game overall. Meaning that randomness can still exist in crafting, pve, farming, but preferrably not in pvp so that it has decisive role when it comes to micro-level success.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Kelin on June 30, 2012, 01:56:39 am
I have nothing against randomness in pvp, but just a reasonable amount, chances under 1% not every f*****g fourth or fifth burst. And yes, as Manero proved, any build using aiming is useless after this update.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: TKs-KaBoom on June 30, 2012, 01:58:21 am
I think some of you would feel more rewarded playing World of Warcraft, there you could hone your damage per second and watch totally boring and predictable awesomely large hits.  There you could feel like you were "special" like all the other players.

"I have nothing against randomness in pvp, but just a reasonable amount, chances under 1% not every f*****g fourth or fifth burst. And yes, as Manero proved, any build using aiming is useless after this update."

Uh, isn't there like a special stat in your character display for um whats the phrase critical percent or something?  Aren't the like mo crits mo crits betta crits perks idk, that are supposed to......

Nah, you guys won't get it....
THIS is FALLOUT, not your own goofy really really shitty isometric laggy pvp simulator even if you use it as such!
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: avv on June 30, 2012, 02:05:29 am
I have nothing against randomness in pvp, but just a reasonable amount,

There needs to be an agreement what a reasonable ammount is. Rule of a thumb should be this: randomness musn't be in decisive role when it comes to life and death. What it basically means is that when you execute a plan based on your knowledge of game mechanics, you receive expected results.
For example like this: light support weapon does always about 100 dmg on bluesuit without toughness/drugs. Not 17-120, which happens when only one bullet from the burst hits.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: TKs-KaBoom on June 30, 2012, 02:12:20 am
God is RANDOM, all bask in his unerring infallible predestination of your pathetic builds that will die by God'S unlucky crit rolls!


Rock, papper sciccsors!  Just think of all the "strategies" and "tactics" you could employ, it's a gloriously perfect game for you.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Rain on June 30, 2012, 02:14:33 am
So,that means that aimed builds are TOTALLY worthless..?What the fuck is this shit,excuse me..?So,we have left only bg gunners and SD sneakers,am i right..?
I choose to play real life.My human character can make more damages than my sniper.Or am i missing something..?
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: codave on June 30, 2012, 02:16:22 am
Did you really think about this?

They were talking about removing AC cap at the very beginning of the wipe.  I could be wrong, but I don't think they ever intended for it to be capped in the first place.  So I doubt it's a decision they came to recently, just implementing what they already were going to do.

Good or bad, it wasn't on a whim.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: John.Metzger on June 30, 2012, 02:23:33 am
THIS is FALLOUT, not your own goofy really really shitty isometric laggy pvp simulator even if you use it as such!

 :-*
It was on the tip of my tongue. nice you're saying that..
the probably arriving flames you get in exchange aren't that nice, indeed..
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Roachor on June 30, 2012, 02:28:44 am
I just switch my aimed shot to groin, no helmet there.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Rain on June 30, 2012, 02:33:20 am
I just switch my aimed shot to groin, no helmet there.

And less ap to spend.That is clearly made to make snipers OP.Nerf them!
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: codave on June 30, 2012, 02:47:36 am
A little of new crit table:

For those who don't understand. Something went terribly wrong here.

I certainly hope that wasn't intended, because that's just fucked up.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Roachor on June 30, 2012, 02:54:47 am
has anyone tested a sd sneaker since the update? I'm really hoping they removed bypasses.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: TKs-KaBoom on June 30, 2012, 04:05:43 am
has anyone tested a sd sneaker since the update? I'm really hoping they removed bypasses.

After update I tested a sd nade in ncr (idlers are good for that) I didn't even get 200 points, seriously these whiny little bitches need to dry there tears up.  I just got a 662 hit 1 hex with greaser, sd nades aren't all that great.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: falloutdude on June 30, 2012, 04:20:59 am
good job on make game unbalanced more. i luv devs so much. lol makes it so that you need rbte after months and months making all snipers useless. lol fucking morons. please dont update ever again and stop trolling us with shitty updates. play the fucking game before you actually start working on shit. also please devs give the data you have to new devs and let them take over. am sure kilgore and his friends would do twice as much as you guys have done in a month then you guys have done in this whole damn time in the project. STOP FUCKING UP THE GAME WITH SHITTY UNBALANCED NERFS AND UPDATES.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: John.Metzger on June 30, 2012, 04:30:34 am
i remember myself, once complaining about a update in news and announcements section.. said something like "this game dont deserve the master.dat and critter.dat".. very embarrassing moment for me..
and that here is your moment..
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Roachor on June 30, 2012, 05:55:50 am
People laughed at my flamer tank, who's laughing now? bonehead and man of steel im probably so immune to crits the negative damage heals me.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: jacky. on June 30, 2012, 09:41:28 am
Boost unarmed ;) only sniper u can use now is sd sneaker with 223:)
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Mike Crosser on June 30, 2012, 09:48:00 am
Funny how at the start of this topic everyone was happy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MLzcm1YVWE
Found this and reminded me of all this players hating devs thing.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: LagMaster on June 30, 2012, 12:11:51 pm
FOKIN LOVE U DEVS

thank you for the update, now i think the server population will increas(by at least 4)
Title: Thanks devs
Post by: g4ce on June 30, 2012, 01:15:08 pm
man thanks for the update the game is alot better :D very greatfull man , i will start playing again asap hehe and finaly right between the eyes works niceone guys
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: naossano on June 30, 2012, 02:15:52 pm
This video is gold... ;D
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Lexx on June 30, 2012, 02:22:03 pm
TC is reverted to the last version with the next patch, btw.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Pandaeb on June 30, 2012, 02:29:23 pm
And the next patch will be after... next half of the year? :D
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: jacky. on June 30, 2012, 02:34:29 pm
Nerf sd. Needer was fine 60-110 with crit, laser pistol 80-150 with crit, and leave molotovs and knifes only. Problem solved. Add bs for ba, ea and hq resources. And pvp fix and maby i will come back but after good feedback
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: avv on June 30, 2012, 02:45:52 pm
TC is reverted to the last version with the next patch, btw.

Any hope for militia nerf along with that?

You know the old story: no mercs in militia, max size is about 8, no over the top weapons or hps.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Nice_Boat on June 30, 2012, 03:13:54 pm
TC is reverted to the last version with the next patch, btw.
Awesome. I'm really hoping this is just the beginning, keep it up ;D
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Kilgore on June 30, 2012, 03:47:14 pm
Any hope for militia nerf along with that?

You know the old story: no mercs in militia, max size is about 8, no over the top weapons or hps.

This or remove militia entirely, no need to have a horde of NPCs as addition to pvp with so few player participants.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Ghosthack on June 30, 2012, 03:58:51 pm
Additionally militia should be totally disabled. Let's try it again.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Reconite on June 30, 2012, 04:16:23 pm
TC is reverted to the last version with the next patch, btw.
Additionally militia should be totally disabled. Let's try it again.
Am I dreaming? Why are there are tears in my eyes?
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Pandaeb on June 30, 2012, 04:19:01 pm
"In the next patch". Now tell me when this patch comes.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: avv on June 30, 2012, 04:34:12 pm
Remember why militia was added in first place: to protect people who want to stay inside the town, because they are in weaker standing from pvp point of view, it's easy to scout players who are inside. This rule hasn't gone anywhere so either you nerf militia, or remove it and add some other temptation to stay inside or just don't give a damn the whole subject. That leads to the controlling faction always evacuation to worldmap, leaving the town empty. But guess that's least of the problems.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Nice_Boat on June 30, 2012, 04:35:50 pm
Remember why militia was added in first place: to protect people who want to stay inside the town, because they are in weaker standing from pvp point of view, it's easy to scout players who are inside. This rule hasn't gone anywhere so either you nerf militia, or remove it and add some other temptation to stay inside or just don't give a damn the whole subject. That leads to the controlling faction always evacuation to worldmap, leaving the town empty. But guess that's least of the problems.
I came up with the idea of militia to prevent bluesuit captures and give a "you're being fucked" warning to the controlling gang. It's been obsolete since the first gear checks and I actually do feel bad I ever suggested introducing it in the first place.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Ghosthack on June 30, 2012, 05:07:59 pm
"In the next patch". Now tell me when this patch comes.

Well, since it's not a big change, it won't be long.

Since it's now summer, most of us that have work / are studying have vacation and can finally spend some more time, there should be more activity.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: LeMark on June 30, 2012, 05:46:04 pm
What abount sneaker who can beat fighter with CA?

Sneaker should be scout, nothing else.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: S.T.A.L.K.E.R on June 30, 2012, 06:32:02 pm
What abount sneaker who can beat fighter with CA?

Heavy handed sneaker with unarmed and SD?
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Roachor on June 30, 2012, 06:42:42 pm
Heavy handed sneaker with unarmed and SD?

HH cancels out sd and a hh crit build is pointless so why?
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: T-888 on June 30, 2012, 07:52:08 pm
Additionally militia should be totally disabled. Let's try it again.

Whaaa- ... *clearing eyes out of sleep*

Great! I would like to try again, now i must download 2238 client.

I came up with the idea of militia to prevent bluesuit captures and give a "you're being fucked" warning to the controlling gang. It's been obsolete since the first gear checks and I actually do feel bad I ever suggested introducing it in the first place.

I think small support of local militia is acceptable, those would be like 5-6 randomly chosen npc's with relatively low hp's and no high-tech weapons at all, only of course if you can't add more during fighting. Though no militia sounds good too.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: falloutdude on June 30, 2012, 08:00:09 pm
removeing millita all together will destroy projects like tsar,ttla,bhh ones leave some. we like are projects and frankly solo  tttla,bhh and tsar even with full members cant beat all the constant attacks on are projects without millita. leave 10 and atleast give northern town projects a chance. or we are going to need to make this game even more boring and place mercs all over which defeats the whole point of removeing millita.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: T-888 on June 30, 2012, 08:06:20 pm
Hmm. My stand on this was always the same, if you can't hold and defend the town on your own, then maybe you don't deserve to control it. The idea was that the players are the guards. Let's try again.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: jacky. on June 30, 2012, 08:07:36 pm
Sure camp with 600hp milita....pfff show skill or buy 100mercs :)
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: A concerned wastelander on June 30, 2012, 08:08:09 pm
removeing millita all together will destroy projects like tsar,ttla,bhh ones leave some. we like are projects and frankly solo  tttla,bhh and tsar even with full members cant beat all the constant attacks on are projects without millita. leave 10 and atleast give northern town projects a chance. or we are going to need to make this game even more boring and place mercs all over which defeats the whole point of removeing millita.

Indeed, militia was of great help for anyone making some projects up north. Maybe it does need to be nerfed, but not completely removed.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: falloutdude on June 30, 2012, 08:10:43 pm
Hmm. My stand on this was always the same, if you can't hold and defend the town on your own, then maybe you don't deserve to control it. The idea was that the players are the guards. Let's try again.
you must have never afked in a town. you must just take a town and go. try to run a rp project based on what you say. you will fail. all i ask it that rp factions have a minor chance to defend themselfs. you can kill 20 millita in under 3 min i dont see 10 as even a minor problem. 10 will just help rp factions against minor attacks and provide cover fire for a little bit in big fights. all i ask is give rp factions a chance this way we get rp and when you want some pvp you come to are rp and come fight like it was last era.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Stration on June 30, 2012, 08:16:25 pm
if you can't hold and defend the town on your own, then maybe you don't deserve to control it.
Amen to that.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: codave on June 30, 2012, 08:22:39 pm
Hmm. My stand on this was always the same, if you can't hold and defend the town on your own, then maybe you don't deserve to control it. The idea was that the players are the guards. Let's try again.

I tend to agree with this.  Additionally, the ability to immediately evacuate to the WM after the timer ended was ridiculous, which is why we would see a single team TC in 3 or more towns in a night, just raking in the TC loot.

I might be wrong here, but I always thought that after the timer, if you didn't keep at least 5 people on the map you should lose control of the town.  It took 5 to TAKE the town, why not to keep it?  That just makes sense to me personally.  It might be a bad idea, but I don't have a better one.

 ;D
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: A concerned wastelander on June 30, 2012, 08:25:25 pm
I can garantee anyone that we will have more pvp in towns with militia, cause there will be more chance that players risk staying in town, otherwise it will just be deserted most of the time, and only used as a battlefield occasionaly.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Mrockatansky on June 30, 2012, 08:34:04 pm
I can garantee anyone that we will have more pve in towns with militia

fixed.

You are wrong and its a very annoying part of town capture.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: avv on June 30, 2012, 08:34:55 pm
Hmm. My stand on this was always the same, if you can't hold and defend the town on your own, then maybe you don't deserve to control it. The idea was that the players are the guards. Let's try again.

But the thing is, these projects falloutdude speaks about are made out of pure goodwill. They provide interaction unlik any other, but are incredibly vulnerable due to the fact they aren't playing like ape factions. As you know ape faction has 24/7 war face on and kills everything that isn't a friend just in case.

You talk about controlling while the ape-faction way to control is to leave the town empty. How can you control the town if you have no members inside?

Maybe we can start by removing militia or harshly nerfing it and then fabricate something optional on top of the pvp-aspect.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: T-888 on June 30, 2012, 08:48:26 pm
you must have never afked in a town

I have, in matter of fact quite a lot, i was always able to defend myself and most of the times nobody bothered to attack me at all ( talking rarely is an option anyway ), as well it got real boring fast. Why do you need to afk in a town anyway?

Now think how is that possible, i have some friends, and i usually play with a character that can defend himself.

You talk about controlling while the ape-faction way to control is to leave the town empty. How can you control the town if you have no members inside?

How can anyone else control the town, if nobody else is in town? Someone else must come, reclaim the leadership of the town and convince the locals they are fit to do that. Use your imagination, the locals are loyal until someone else shows up.

But the thing is, these projects falloutdude speaks about are made out of pure goodwill. They provide interaction unlik any other, but are incredibly vulnerable due to the fact they aren't playing like ape factions. As you know ape faction has 24/7 war face on and kills everything that isn't a friend just in case.

I think players need to adapt to that, but seriously. Do something about it. Relying on 20 npc's that will do the job for you, is no solution at all.

You talk about controlling while the ape-faction way to control is to leave the town empty. How can you control the town if you have no members inside?

Apes don't socialize, it's their choice, how they want to play the game and not how someone thinks it has to be played.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Kilgore on June 30, 2012, 08:51:30 pm
Yeh just remove it. If someone wants NPC wars, make sure he has to afford it.

Well, if they also do something about pure troll builds (remove grenades from SD effect, revert last changes to SD, make HH knockdown only 50% of the time or so, bring back AC cap) and fix criticals hits broken in the last update, it might become quite playable.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: falloutdude on June 30, 2012, 08:54:22 pm
triple you must have done this afk in this era when no one goes in towns. try it when population is high and see how many times you die.
all am asking is for you to respect rp way of playing with some millita and we will respect yours by giveing you pvp action with are rp. its a win win for both sides.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: T-888 on June 30, 2012, 08:59:53 pm
I have nothing against RP, but what is RP with militia? I'm sorry, but that just doesn't make sense.

Hmm. I have a question for you, let's say SoT does a RP project(imagine it might be a succesful one, even if not for the SoT members themselves). Do you think we couldn't do it without militia?
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Kilgore on June 30, 2012, 09:01:01 pm
Yes, I think you couldn't do it without militia.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: T-888 on June 30, 2012, 09:02:03 pm
Well then, i disagree. Someone wants to troll the project, troll back. War? Fight back. I remember this time when afk'ing in BH this session with my taxi/looter, there was some sneak that was killing me all the time, i logged onto my sneaker, beat the crap out of him few times and surprisingly he didn't come back. Fun for both right?

Hmm, though with the fast relogs, dump millions of alts over WM.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: John.Metzger on June 30, 2012, 09:03:00 pm
Great! I would like to try again, now i must download 2238 client.

i´ll just support this idea.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: LeMark on June 30, 2012, 09:04:28 pm
Well then, i disagree.

I am sure you couldn't, in fact the old version of SOT already try to do it with BHH and few people brook it so easely...

Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: T-888 on June 30, 2012, 09:09:23 pm
Wasn't the whining the problem they stopped? Rogues want only the BOX, evil people! ;D The community might be a problem, not a feature like militia.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: avv on June 30, 2012, 09:17:28 pm
I have nothing against RP, but what is RP with militia? I'm sorry, but that just doesn't make sense.

This has been explained before. Militia gives the courage to stay inside and put yourself in unfavourable position in terms of pvp strategy for the sake of player interaction. If friendly players are controlling the town and stay inside, more players - hostile and friendly alike will gather there.

If there is no militia, there's no encouragement for anyone to enter the town, other than those who wish to capture. For example a solo player is incredibly vulnerable to random troll when he's inside. Why is he inside? Well isn't it funnier that he is, otherwise the town would be always empty.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: T-888 on June 30, 2012, 09:19:27 pm
This is said millions times, nobody likes these NPC wars. Just remove militia and be done with it.

If friendly players are controlling the town and stay inside, more players - hostile and friendly alike will gather there.

a big clusterfuck between npc's and players.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: A concerned wastelander on June 30, 2012, 09:29:39 pm
fixed.

You are wrong and its a very annoying part of town capture.

Maybe its annoying for capturing towns (for small gangs), but still, you will get more pvp (available victims). Remember the BHH project in BH? Remember the Tsar or TTTLA projects in Redding? Remember the Hawks project at Gecko? So yes, you will get more pve AND pvp (and roleplay), its a fact.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: John.Metzger on June 30, 2012, 09:32:34 pm
i agree with this, haven't seen such longlife player projects in the past without militia.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: jacky. on June 30, 2012, 09:34:40 pm
in last sesion we CS wanted to fight with some gangs when we were 5-7 but we couldnt becasue of 20 500hp rocket/sniper/avenger/lsw militia in ma mk2 and 5 rp players. they were camping behing militia and it was pathetic that we cant do shit becasue of those 20 op npcs. try to run ur project like a man not like whinning kids. if you are to weak why you should keep this town. big fish eat small fish
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: avv on June 30, 2012, 09:36:37 pm
in last sesion we CS wanted to fight with some gangs when we were 5-7 but we couldnt becasue of 20 500hp rocket/sniper/avenger/lsw militia in ma mk2 and 5 rp players. they were camping behing militia and it was pathetic that we cant do shit becasue of those 20 op npcs. try to run ur project like a man not like whinning kids. if you are to weak why you should keep this town. big fish eat small fish

I understand your point of view but understand mine aswell: the point back then wasn't to fight everyone who wanted to fight but keep the town for our purposes. If we had wanted to fight, we would have left the town empty and waited for someone to go inside so we can jump on them from worldmap. If CS could have been able to smash everyone inside when it wanted, there would have not been anyone inside ever. That's cold truth.

This is said millions times, nobody likes these NPC wars. Just remove militia and be done with it.

a big clusterfuck between npc's and players.

Only if the militia is like it is now. A group of 8 guys with low health and jhp ammo would be enough. The point is not to smash even small pvp teams with good gear but put a little barrier between the surprise attack from worldmap and fend off trolls who spam themselves in bluesuit.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: John.Metzger on June 30, 2012, 09:45:48 pm
..
big fish eat small fish
that's why fonline get eaten.
but i understand your point with militia disturbing "personal tc"
its made to support guarded town by players at all.. but with small amount of players it dont work
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: jacky. on June 30, 2012, 11:36:35 pm
20 500hp npc with bgs and 30% crit chance is little fucked up when few guys are hidding behind militia. i remeber one fight me and 2 my friends were in bh on snipers with 20 mercs/slave militia and we were attacked by 25tttla from mine. we defeded city for 40mins and we bought 2times new militia. i shooted over 90 times from sniper rifle and i didnt die in that fight. tttla were/are noobs more consider about looting his dead friend than fighting but when you can use militia and u can fight, then 5 guys with full boosted merc/militia can protect city from gang with 3x more people. and this is just wrong. if u want to keep city safe buy mercs, muties are cheap.


and avv it is not up to you to decide who want to fight with you. old pvp gangs cs/bbs/rouges were all about fighting in north.

Same at this sesion sot made green bunker in bh, That was good?
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: avv on July 01, 2012, 12:11:43 am
Jacky we can all agree that over the top militia is bad. Nobody wants it except perhaps some extremists.

What I'm trying to say is that you won't have anyone to ambush in towns if there is no reason to be inside. People don't just hang out in dangerous locations for fun, unless it's organized pvp unit desperate for action, some carebear roleplayers or a bunch of bluesuit trolls. The presence of militia, even weak militia, encourages players to come in towns as long as they are not shot in sight.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: TKs-KaBoom on July 01, 2012, 04:04:27 am
I can't stress it enough, this is where we must unite as a community ffs!  This is the time to beg for Brahmin clans, battle Brahmin and fish!  Put aside your petty squabbles over TC and militia, blah blah blah, we've heard it already.  Some of you are going to end up butthurtz.  We all agree on battle brahmin clans!
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: John.Metzger on July 01, 2012, 04:21:10 am
we could implement arroyo and playing the fallout 2 storyline together, with the last few people on server..
i am looking forward to a epic battle with 5 wastelander dudes against metzger and his guys in the den.
on level 5 we could team up and try to smash those evil slavers :) sure, we need permadeath. one of the important parts of that idea. cant say why i have the attitude to drive everything offtopic. iam just a bad guy
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Mike Crosser on July 01, 2012, 09:55:26 am
we could implement arroyo and playing the fallout 2 storyline together, with the last few people on server..
i am looking forward to a epic battle with 5 wastelander dudes against metzger and his guys in the den.
on level 5 we could team up and try to smash those evil slavers :) sure, we need permadeath. one of the important parts of that idea. cant say why i have the attitude to drive everything offtopic. iam just a bad guy
Well we could have a GM create an alt called ''the chosen one'' or ''Narg'' and have him do a few canon fallout 2 things
for example:kill the rats in klamath,fix gecko reactor,kill metzger,eliminate Vault 15 raiders...
Oh yeah and also where are the V15 raiders?
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: naossano on July 01, 2012, 12:02:59 pm
Indeed militia should be nerfed.
Still 20 guys, unable to fall or being out of ammo.
But with 100-200hp, with their own set of weapons.
No mercenaries or slaves added.
A random set of minions, from the CA gauss, to the unarmed brahmin.
More spread in the town, not just in the center.

It could remain fun to try to pk some member of the faction holding town, roaming your way amongs suspicious militians.
It could remain interessesting for those who want to upgrade militia, by spending time amongs militian, trying to detect the weaskest and get rid of them. (maybe losing some reputation)
It could be nice if those RP guys could spread in all the city, not in the militia heavy town center.
Militia should remain a manageable challenge for the attacking faction, but not always from the same place every time. (militia should spread)
Militia should only defend harmless members of the defending faction, not helping to pk random dudes...

As for deleting militia, it's hard to me thinking about it, as i always known it.
I don't think it is a good idea to remove some content, but if you think you can't balance it, i trust your judgement.
But as avv said, it could break some good RP project, made by people who are not as good in pvp than some brainless pk who think they are in counter strike, and tend to break the content and purpose of this game, by kicking out all new playerbase...  (of course, it only concerns some pvp players, not all of them)

As for this new TC system about to be removed, i wish you good luck to balance it for the next cession. It is theorically very interessting, albeit very impractical for now.

we could implement arroyo and playing the fallout 2 storyline together, with the last few people on server..
i am looking forward to a epic battle with 5 wastelander dudes against metzger and his guys in the den.
on level 5 we could team up and try to smash those evil slavers :) sure, we need permadeath. one of the important parts of that idea. cant say why i have the attitude to drive everything offtopic. iam just a bad guy

Permadeath is only good for prewipe.
But having a tribale village would be awesome.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: jacky. on July 01, 2012, 12:21:02 pm
10weak militia in center of city for rp noobs. I think it can Work out 150-250 and low equipment max ma mk1 and low-med weapons. If u want to keep town safe buy mercs
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Jotisz on July 01, 2012, 02:19:30 pm
As for this new TC system about to be removed, i wish you good luck to balance it for the next cession. It is theorically very interessting, albeit very impractical for now.
Same from here the concept was interesting I wish we will see it later again maybe in the next season.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: avv on July 01, 2012, 03:37:39 pm
Same from here the concept was interesting I wish we will see it later again maybe in the next season.

Only good thing about the current tc was that you got suplies for actually being inside the town.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Jotisz on July 01, 2012, 04:11:26 pm
I think thats only cause it didn't worked in the way as devs wanted. If you look back on the talks about TC you will see the difference on the in-game one and the planned out. Anyway I will not argue that the old tc probably bring back people.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: T-888 on July 01, 2012, 04:59:38 pm
Only good thing about the current tc was that you got suplies for actually being inside the town.

Hardly, in practice those are just some afk characters in some dark corners of the city, that from time to time collect some loot.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Krupniok on July 01, 2012, 06:57:39 pm
Fantastic update. It'd take every beginner that have recently started playing with SDK a week-two, you - group of experienced developers - made us wait nearly half a year. Well worth waiting. Nerfing - already unplayable - snipers and boosting SD sneakers really made me laugh. But guys, thanks God that you've finally fixed those terrible dialog errors and balanced XL70E3!

I don't think anyone will come back to playing even with old TC, if there will be ONE effective, overpowered battle build (BG crit), supported by extremely frustrating SD naders (or 223. pistoleros from now, good work!). Oh, I forgot, there will be new build maybe - 210 AC HtH trolls.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: avv on July 01, 2012, 08:34:08 pm
and balanced XL70E3!

Actually it's quite pointless weapon. It does about the same damage as assault rifle because it only fires 8 shots.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Lordus on July 01, 2012, 08:49:01 pm
Sorry, but too late.. I doubt this would attract adequate number of players.. TC still broken,
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Lexx on July 01, 2012, 11:12:49 pm
Shit, then we better shut down the server now.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: naossano on July 01, 2012, 11:16:36 pm
Funny how at the start of this topic everyone was happy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MLzcm1YVWE
Found this and reminded me of all this players hating devs thing.

You should put this on the forum main page...
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Krupniok on July 02, 2012, 12:02:44 am
Shit, then we better shut down the server now.

It'd be the best option. We see that you're trying to do something, but firstly you don't have time, secondly - you don't listen to the players. Shut down this server and give out the code, so other developers - and there are still many with enough time and will - can fix what need fixing, add their fresh ideas and start a new server. Everyone aprecciate what you've done, you'll be always remembered as a team which made that major steps in history of FOnline, but your time has gone - you know it.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: TKs-KaBoom on July 02, 2012, 12:48:30 am
You guys are really beginning to act as a bunch of spoiled whiny 2 year olds that didn't get exactly what they expected for Christmas.  Nah, your not beginning....   Seriously, I thought this game was dead, but it limpers along, give the devs some slack.  If I were plunking around in the codebase (I'm sure by now its a steamy pile of convoluted shit) I'd tell you all to pound this game up your ass.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: John.Metzger on July 02, 2012, 09:53:02 am
It'd be the best option. We see that you're trying to do something, but firstly you don't have time, secondly - you don't listen to the players. Shut down this server and give out the code, so other developers - and there are still many with enough time and will - can fix what need fixing, add their fresh ideas and start a new server. Everyone aprecciate what you've done, you'll be always remembered as a team which made that major steps in history of FOnline, but your time has gone - you know it.

sounds like:
your work on that picture is nice we like to look at it. next week please a bit more blue into it, dear artist.
what? you won´t finish it next week? let someone else paint it then and give your colors. *trollface*
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: jacky. on July 02, 2012, 11:03:34 am
You guys are really beginning to act as a bunch of spoiled whiny 2 year olds that didn't get exactly what they expected for Christmas.  Nah, your not beginning....   Seriously, I thought this game was dead, but it limpers along, give the devs some slack.  If I were plunking around in the codebase (I'm sure by now its a steamy pile of convoluted shit) I'd tell you all to pound this game up your ass.

and what did you expect? 6months with out udate and when you get it, it is "we have our ideas and we dont listen comunity". they fixed only fov and even unbalace this game even more. they boosted sd and fucked crit tabels. we wanted tc and armors fix, + more encounters but we got sd boost. well good job devs showed they dont read forum and players sugestions. i have idea make sd working with bg ;D 400 damage from rl is better that 2k damage from greese ;]
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Lexx on July 02, 2012, 11:19:11 am
and what did you expect? 6months with out udate and when you get it, it is "we have our ideas and we dont listen comunity".

I grow tired of this. Fun fact: Most of the changes we ever made are based on ideas and talk from the community. But of course, let's ignore that all together. Makes the blaming a lot easier, doesn't it.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Mike Crosser on July 02, 2012, 11:57:17 am
Besides there were 10+ topics about SD should use .223 and 14mm also.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Jotisz on July 02, 2012, 12:42:11 pm
Oh I remember those threads too :)
There was one at the bug reports too
http://fodev.net/forum/index.php/topic,21731.15.html
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: TKs-KaBoom on July 02, 2012, 12:48:51 pm
and what did you expect? 6months with out udate and when you get it, it is "we have our ideas and we dont listen comunity". they fixed only fov and even unbalace this game even more. they boosted sd and fucked crit tabels. we wanted tc and armors fix, + more encounters but we got sd boost. well good job devs showed they dont read forum and players sugestions. i have idea make sd working with bg ;D 400 damage from rl is better that 2k damage from greese ;]

Go play TLA maybe they will make that game exactly like you want, probably not......  I don't expect anything actually.  In all honesty I believed they'd just pull the plug.  I really don't think this game is perfect but you bozos aren't paying for anything, really your not voting with dollars and whine makes a poor substitute.  At this point, I hate to say it, If you don't like it play something else, or whine somemore...  your good at it.

A good analogy would be lets say somebody cooks your breakfast, maybe a girlfriend, or more than likely your Mother.  You may feel free to offer any suggestions of what the meal should entail but when it comes time to eat it, you can either accept it, devouring it with a smile or wear it in your lap.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Stration on July 02, 2012, 12:55:01 pm
I grow tired of this. Fun fact: Most of the changes we ever made are based on ideas and talk from the community. But of course, let's ignore that all together. Makes the blaming a lot easier, doesn't it.

You fail to understand what the community is, Lexx.

If one member of the community suggests a change, and you introduce that change without consulting the rest of the community members, or after only consulting a small number of them, you do not introduce a change "based on ideas from the community;" you introduce a change based on ideas from one person, one member of the community.

Similarly, if there is a discussion whether a feature should be introduced/removed or not, and there are 3 people saying 'do it' and 30 people saying 'don't do it,' and you decide to go with the minority, and do something that the vast majority says 'don't do it' to, then, again, you do not introduce a change based on discussion with(in) the community, you introduce a change that is in disregard of what the community suggested (one obvious example - the removal of old namecolorizing - immediately comes to mind).

The community means either all the people that are active on the forum/IRC, or at least the vast majority of them, Lexx.

Would you call two bees flying around a bee hive? No, you probably wouldn't. So please, do not refer to some obscure random chunks of the player-base as the community.

Rather than saying, for example, "we introduced the new town control system because the community requested it," it might therefore be better to say: "we introduced the new TC system because 3 random members of the community, who never even participated in TC fights, suggested that it might work better than the old one."
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Lexx on July 02, 2012, 01:31:16 pm
Yes, I fail to understand, thank you for bringing the light to me. Apparently you fail to understand that it is impossible to get the full community to agree on any single point. "The Community" is not a single entity. It is many people with lots of different ideas and tastes.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: TKs-KaBoom on July 02, 2012, 01:34:44 pm
Yes, I fail to understand, thank you for bringing the light to me. Apparently you fail to understand that it is impossible to get the full community to agree on any single point. "The Community" is not a single entity. It is many people with lots of different ideas and tastes.

So...... We are getting Battle Brahmin?
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: T-888 on July 02, 2012, 01:35:30 pm
Yes, I fail to understand, thank you for bringing the light to me. Apparently you fail to understand that it is impossible to get the full community to agree on any single point. "The Community" is not a single entity. It is many people with lots of different ideas and tastes.

So what if someone makes bunch of poles and makes sure that the majority agrees? Would that make any difference?

I know you aren't the scripter, but would you even read those topics, and at least present them to your team mates, well since your active?
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Stration on July 02, 2012, 01:40:44 pm
Yes, I fail to understand, thank you for bringing the light to me. Apparently you fail to understand that it is impossible to get the full community to agree on any single point. "The Community" is not a single entity. It is many people with lots of different ideas and tastes.
You might want to read my previous post again.

Here is a tl;dr version of it: it is obvious that you can't get the whole community to agree unanimously on anything, but if 100 people say A, and 2 people say B, you should probably go with A, and if you decide to go with B instead, you have no right to say that the decision was made based on what the community suggested.

Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Lexx on July 02, 2012, 01:54:18 pm
I know you aren't the scripter, but would you even read those topics, and at least present them to your team mates, well since your active?

We read every suggestion that is posted, even if it doesn't look like that. Everything that seems possible / good is being talked about. Sometimes more, sometimes less. I stopped to post in the definitive-no threads, though, because people always assume that I am blocking everything. :)
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: wladimiiir on July 02, 2012, 01:57:16 pm
Honestly, if I would be the developer I would shut the server long time ago.
Some of you are really unbelievable. "Why this was changed and why that? Why not that?"
The most important thing from the whole changelog was just overlooked by you:

Fixed server crashes

This is the only thing that matters and that was really annoying. Everything else is just bonus, but you seem to dont understand it.
Just play the game, have fun and stop whining about changes you dont like, because you are only testers and you are playing it for free.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Kelin on July 02, 2012, 02:06:40 pm
Honestly, if I would be the developer I would shut the server long time ago.
Some of you are really unbelievable. "Why this was changed and why that? Why not that?"
The most important thing from the whole changelog was just overlooked by you:

Fixed server crashes

This is the only thing that matters and that was really annoying. Everything else is just bonus, but you seem to dont understand it.
Just play the game, have fun and stop whining about changes you dont like, because you are only testers and you are playing it for free.
Really? Server doesn't go down every hour, that's true. But now we got constant lags and ping between 500 and 5000. Before the update you could play with a good ping, now it's impossible.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Stration on July 02, 2012, 02:11:06 pm
Honestly, if I would be the developer I would shut the server long time ago.
Some of you are really unbelievable. "Why this was changed and why that? Why not that?"
The most important thing from the whole changelog was just overlooked by you:

Fixed server crashes

This is the only thing that matters and that was really annoying. Everything else is just bonus, but you seem to dont understand it.
Just play the game, have fun and stop whining about changes you dont like, because you are only testers and you are playing it for free.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zc9wIzi96_E

Server doesn't go down every hour, that's true. But now we got constant lags and ping between 500 and 5000. Before the update you could play with a good ping, now it's impossible.
There's just no pleasing you, WHINERS! I know your kind all too well! I bet if they made the lag go away and the crashes come back, you'd whine about the crashes again!
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: wladimiiir on July 02, 2012, 02:25:47 pm
Video with happy music
Thanks, that cheered me up. I feel much better now :D
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: John.Metzger on July 02, 2012, 02:31:09 pm
in the past there were the RPérs and PVPérs who do discussion.
now its the people who are simple thankful that the server exist and there is a fallout online at all,
against the people who are complaining about the dev´s and gamemechanics on the other side.
oh wait.. thats still the same groups! *trollface*
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: wladimiiir on July 02, 2012, 02:40:07 pm
in the past there were the RPérs and PVPérs who do discussion.
now its the people who are simple thankful that the server exist and there is a fallout online at all,
against the people who are complaining about the dev´s and gamemechanics on the other side.
oh wait.. thats still the same groups! *trollface*
Very well said.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Kelin on July 02, 2012, 03:13:47 pm
There's just no pleasing you, WHINERS! I know your kind all too well! I bet if they made the lag go away and the crashes come back, you'd whine about the crashes again!
How nice, you call me whiner though I wasn't complaining. I just disagreed with Mike and his statement that "everything is ok now". Whining would look like "bring crashes back nao!", of course I'm glad there was the update with all good and bad things it has brought. I dare to say that I'm one of a few people who still support devs in their work. The thing is they don't probably play their own game so someone has to give them a feedback. I doubt they realize how terribly underpowered snipers are or how this server is laggy. Please don't confuse discussion with whining.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: kttdestroyer on July 02, 2012, 03:18:13 pm
No tc adjustments? :(
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: wladimiiir on July 02, 2012, 03:24:32 pm
How nice, you call me whiner though I wasn't complaining. I just disagreed with Mike and his statement that "everything is ok now". Whining would look like "bring crashes back nao!", of course I'm glad there was the update with all good and bad things it has brought. I dare to say that I'm one of a few people who still support devs in their work. The thing is they don't probably play their own game so someone has to give them a feedback. I doubt they realize how terribly underpowered snipers are or how this server is laggy. Please don't confuse discussion with whining.
There will never be balance in the game, because there is no focus for such a thing. To balance game, you need much more players and many more PvP testing (look at SCII for example and their beta testing to make the game balanced).

Yes, if those lags persists I will stop playing again, because it is really annoying and game is unplayable, but the most simple solution to this would be to restart server once a day (probably), so its not such a deal (I hope).

Snipers can never be underpowered because they can stay invisible if you are smart enough, thats just my opinion. People can always find something why this is not good enough, but maybe it just does not suite the style of their play and they should play some other style.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: T-888 on July 02, 2012, 03:31:15 pm
There will never be balance in the game

Some sort of balance exists in every game, a thing called total balance cannot be achieved, you can improve upon and that's it. The only question is how " wide " the balance is, if it revolves around one ingame weapon, i would hardly call that balance at all, close to non-existant.

To balance game, you need much more players and many more PvP testing

Uhm, no. Need just good decision making from developers. There are plenty enough of PvP'ers that can tell what's wrong, just need to convince developers to do certain things when they do something, some are too obvious sometimes, and i'm just surprised from what lexx said that there are problems to agree on something inside the community, well that's not true. Yes, i'm gonna say it again, majority is the answer, can't satisfy everyone. Then at least the larger part, everyone else will just adapt, as always. It's just simple as that.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: wladimiiir on July 02, 2012, 03:52:48 pm
Some sort of balance exists in every game, a thing called total balance cannot be achieved, you can improve upon and that's it. The only question is how " wide " the balance is, if it revolves around one ingame weapon, i would hardly call that balance at all, close to non-existant.

Uhm, no. Need just good decision making from developers. There are plenty enough of PvP'ers that can tell what's wrong, just need to convince developers to do certain things when they do something, some are too obvious sometimes, and i'm just surprised from what lexx said that there are problems to agree on something inside the community, well that's not true. Yes, i'm gonna say it again, majority is the answer, can't satisfy everyone. Then at least the larger part, everyone else will just adapt, as always. It's just simple as that.

If you play mostly with sniper (RLer, burster, sneaker...), you will try to suggest anything, that would make your play more "balanced". But the problem is that you can play with whatever you play and not make the most of the abilities of your character, so it seems like there is some "unbalance" in being a sniper (RLer, whatever). StarCraft 2 is very good example. You cant play only with one type of units, because there is easy counter unit on the other side (for every unit) that would crush you easily. The same applies to this game. You cannot have balanced characters (one type of unit), because thats just not PvP. There should be counter for every perk in the game and for the each possible build in the game, but the problem is that there is no such a thing for some perks (or builds).
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: T-888 on July 02, 2012, 07:36:09 pm
Sure, each character has it's own flaws and advantages, just sometimes that advantage might be too big, overpowered. Starcraft 2 is a good example indeed, now imagine a unit, that no other unit can effectively deal with, i would call that imbalance. That you can't counter it! Well such things already exist in fonline:2238, like the hot topic about crit bursters, you can't counter a 330 damage burst in your face, game mechanics, features doesn't allow to do that. So the only way how to counter that, is to make a similar build and smack back with 330 bursts in face. Some sort of balance exists even then, but it's a lot narrow than before.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: John Porno on July 02, 2012, 08:01:48 pm
If you play mostly with sniper (RLer, burster, sneaker...), you will try to suggest anything, that would make your play more "balanced". But the problem is that you can play with whatever you play and not make the most of the abilities of your character, so it seems like there is some "unbalance" in being a sniper (RLer, whatever). StarCraft 2 is very good example. You cant play only with one type of units, because there is easy counter unit on the other side (for every unit) that would crush you easily. The same applies to this game. You cannot have balanced characters (one type of unit), because thats just not PvP. There should be counter for every perk in the game and for the each possible build in the game, but the problem is that there is no such a thing for some perks (or builds).
Snipers are a very good example. and please, dont call rocket launchers snipers.

Let's put it like this: even if you "make the most of the abilites of your [sniper] character", you still are less useful than a bg this season. The reason is just that there never really was any real tc with at least 10fighters on either side of the team in standard gear. That way, though the wipe-patch raised the damage potential of snipers, it never could be utilized due to all the fighting taking place in reno or sd sneaks.

I didnt check this recent patch yet, but judging from the rbte/helmet crit thingy and from what I've heard on irc, snipers seemd to have been unnecessarily nerfed.

aside from that, you seem to contradict yourself in your post. You talk about how only using one class of units is not real pvp, yet everyone is using bg's. It feels like you are pro-sniper but at the same time you argue with t888 who is pro sniper as well? I dont get it really.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: wladimiiir on July 02, 2012, 10:48:22 pm
When I called RLers snipers? I just made an example that this applies to every type of character (BG, SG, EW...).
I never said that I disagree with T888.
Not everyone is using BG. There are sneakers too, critical builds, even heavy handed.
And snipers are not nerfed, they just dont have their chance to prove themselves, as you said it.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Handyman on July 03, 2012, 09:32:24 am
Keep up the good work! i belive in ya mon !
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Lizard on July 03, 2012, 09:57:55 am
I like this update. Instead of trollbacks we have now lag, but this is acceptable in TB.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: McBorn on July 03, 2012, 11:07:35 am
I would like to thank Lexx that makes everything so that the server was in the old state. Good luck
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Rain on July 03, 2012, 04:53:18 pm
So,making the point of the whole situation.
Most important to get,IMO>
.No fastrelog thing,fucking up TC.*there is no ultimate way to solve the issue,but it has got so worse since last wipe*
.Buff up snipers strenght.If you are not going to improve crit chances,increasing sniper rifle/223 damage could be a fine idea.Rare to score a crit,but deadly if it s the case.
.TC modification.*restore to old..?*
.SD not removed,but greatly nerfed.Nades are fine *you can counter them with proper armor*,so no SD and burst.Single shots and nades are balanced IMO.
.Lag fixes
I guess the whole operation would make about 15/20 hours of work for a small team of devs,hope for the best and keep it up with your effort!
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: naossano on July 03, 2012, 06:26:20 pm
Fast relog is a must have in a lot of situation.
The point is to be able to avoid it during PVP.
(not by removing it and favor the cheaters, but by making more interresting to keep one character)
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Lordus on July 03, 2012, 07:18:34 pm
Devs, i understand how hard is to spend your free time to this project, seriously, but why did not you tried to do something with town control? This session is killed because of bad concept of TC. I am part of players, who dont have time to stay at city to collect invisible aura. I want and i think i am not alone, some certainity. If i play i.e. Wot, i know that i can join one battle and finish it in 15 minutes max. So i know that i will not be bored for one hour. This kind of certainity i miss in fonline.

 After post wipe stage of each session, i want same or similar mechanism like time windows in one of the previous sessions. Get back home, look at clock and realize that i have possibility to fight some fights in certain place with/against certain players. Fonline community grows up and this should be reflected.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: T-888 on July 03, 2012, 09:30:12 pm
TC windows is win, but normal TC with timer is not that bad too, to be honest.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: naossano on July 03, 2012, 11:02:10 pm
TC windows, maybe, but only if its randoms.
Think about spanish, chinese, american, canadians and other dudes...
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Roachor on July 04, 2012, 04:11:01 am
If the game was split into 12 hour rt day/night shifts you could have a 1hr tc window every 3 hours and have seperate controllers for day and night. That way you'd be competing people close to your time zone without it just be people taking over when the other faction sleeps. Removing all night restrictions of course(jt,closed stores).
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: X_Treme on July 15, 2012, 04:45:14 am
anyone knows, what happen with the laser crits??now, my crits do 30 50 of damage when i do a crit, and bypass of 60... the damage was nerfed?
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: falloutdude on July 15, 2012, 04:56:23 am
anyone knows, what happen with the laser crits??now, my crits do 30 50 of damage when i do a crit, and bypass of 60... the damage was nerfed?
look at helment crit mods now. all sniper builds are even more useless then before.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: X_Treme on July 15, 2012, 07:53:53 am
yeah i know, but the helmet crit mod affect only th chance of crit or not?
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: falloutdude on July 15, 2012, 07:56:49 am
yeah i know, but the helmet crit mod affect only th chance of crit or not?
the new update made helmets crit power mod and crit chance mod both better. so thats why snipers are doing shiity. aim for the groin for now. head and eye shots are useless.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Rain on July 15, 2012, 08:47:41 am
How is finesse doing with fast shot laser crit build..?Any feedback..?
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Kelin on July 15, 2012, 02:26:11 pm
anyone knows, what happen with the laser crits??now, my crits do 30 50 of damage when i do a crit, and bypass of 60... the damage was nerfed?
Answer:
...
- Helmet Anti Crit Modifiers doubled.
...
- Adjusted critical hit tables.
Imho now all other pvp builds than big gunners are useless, snipers can be only used to cripple/KO your enemy but they cannot kill anyone. If you need damage (and be sure you do) go for bg. Sad but true.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: avv on July 15, 2012, 02:58:55 pm
Answer:Imho now all other pvp builds than big gunners are useless, snipers can be only used to cripple/KO your enemy but they cannot kill anyone. If you need damage (and be sure you do) go for bg. Sad but true.

But they can criple and gundrop very easily and 10 seconds KO isn't something you want to receive in combat situation. The reason why big gunners are good is the critburst ability.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: DocAN. on July 15, 2012, 06:55:20 pm
Answer:Imho now all other pvp builds than big gunners are useless, snipers can be only used to cripple/KO your enemy but they cannot kill anyone. If you need damage (and be sure you do) go for bg. Sad but true.

Groin hits arent so bad. I have made 150 DMG KO hit in groin, most of crit hits are around 100 dmg.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: T-888 on July 16, 2012, 02:25:15 am
Interesting things are going on with snipers, not just raw critical chance, Solar didn't mention any other changes, or i was just sloppy reading his posts, need tests.

anyone knows, what happen with the laser crits??now, my crits do 30 50 of damage when i do a crit, and bypass of 60... the damage was nerfed?
Anyway, in building the next bit of the spreadsheet, to test bursts and their criticals, I learnt that I had applied the critical damage modifier in error (its applied before DT, not after). So slight amendments to the single shot damages:

This change is involved in this update, explains the bad damage.

Example, lazer rifle does 20 damage, it was (dmgmulti with crit, example) 3x20-8(MAmk2 DT)=52
Now it's 20-8(3x)=36

Not actual correct damage formula, just something to show the difference between the change. Tesla helmet now is pretty nice, weapon perk penetrate becomes strong and efficient, high DT good against snipers.

oh yes, a lot of testing to do.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Ricopandehigo on July 16, 2012, 03:24:03 am
Nice update and thanks for come back old tc system !! thanks ^^

I dont like that factions do an big exploit with actual system of tc (big exploit of part hawks -followers of reese, they arent really hawks - wtf..), I hope that this bug will be end some day.

really thanks! ; )
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: McBorn on July 16, 2012, 08:28:07 am
Dear Devs, I really appreciate the last update, but it is already time for a new or what do you see, because game is still like before (crit. burst, broken timer and so).

I understand that now you have people which play again this server, but for me the game is as before. Thank you
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Lexx on July 16, 2012, 09:26:15 am
Update comes when update is done.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: McBorn on July 16, 2012, 11:39:19 am
I understand, soon.

Maybe just less frequent updates will be much better than full of errors and unnecessary changes.

Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: FrankenStone on July 17, 2012, 03:39:08 am
lol just make other builds then BGs playable for PvP -.-
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: manero on July 17, 2012, 12:08:12 pm
TC windows is win, but normal TC with timer is not that bad too, to be honest.

TC windows mean 2 superswarms wars like it was 2 years ago(NA vs DA) and it was really bad.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Hovinko on July 17, 2012, 02:55:32 pm
TC windows mean 2 superswarms wars like it was 2 years ago(NA vs DA) and it was really bad.

I think it was best season. i really dont like idea of having 3 members gang (with 2 dual) capturing all cities late in the night, when no one is playing.

Last year in january there were big alliances. These two sides was fighting against each other whole day. Small fights at noon and big ones at night.
 
But i understand your point. You want to play alone, with 4 friends and be able to do something, and obviously you can do anything against swarm. 
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: T-888 on July 17, 2012, 04:05:48 pm
TC windows mean 2 superswarms wars like it was 2 years ago(NA vs DA) and it was really bad.

I've heard something completely different, i guess opinions differ.

Anyway, without old NC maybe it wouldn't be so bad, and i always had this thought, why all cities have to have the same TC type? Wouldn't it be more dynamic if for example only half of the cities had the TC windows, rest normal TC? Sounds like win-win.

Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Shangalar on July 23, 2012, 04:40:29 pm
It's fun for some days, until it's becoming pain in the ass to organize anything. Scouts, more-people-race, atmosphere for lead, all of that is boring as hell.
Title: Re: Changelog 28/06/2012
Post by: Shapter on July 25, 2012, 01:59:33 pm
We are all disappointed with the trading system, the blueprint, the worbenches and other stuff but...

THE SERVER IS MUCH MORE STABLE!

Thank you devs, no rollback means a lot to some.