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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => General Game Discussion => Topic started by: Daryl on October 22, 2012, 07:41:58 pm

Title: fast relog
Post by: Daryl on October 22, 2012, 07:41:58 pm
hey devs :D , sorry to complain about the fast relogs , but i dont find it fair, specaily in pvp or town control, i think it should go back to the way it was , you kill someone and they come back 10 times in a row, its just silly, sorry im complaining about this but its not fair , for example you do tc with like 15 guys and u actually beat the first wave but they just keep coming and coming , and kill you all its not fair, the 20 guys you just beat turn into 200 people, by fast relogging and it makes the game impossible to play or fight anyone i think it should go back to the way it used to be and make things more balanced. i think we should all take a vote on this
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: Perteks on October 22, 2012, 07:46:22 pm
(http://i.chzbgr.com/completestore/2008/9/16/128660934198463045.jpg)
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: Tomowolf on October 22, 2012, 07:46:30 pm
hey devs :D , sorry to complain about the fast relogs , but i dont find it fair, specaily in pvp or town control, i think it should go back to the way it was , you kill someone and they come back 10 times in a row, its just silly, sorry im complaining about this but its not fair , for example you do tc with like 15 guys and u actually beat the first wave but they just keep coming and coming , and kill you all its not fair, the 20 guys you just beat turn into 200 people, by fast relogging and it makes the game impossible to play or fight anyone i think it should go back to the way it used to be and make things more balanced. i think we should all take a vote on this
In-every-damn-mmo player which spends more time on game was, is and will be better than any other, os deal with it or not, you need to make more alts, or whole pvp system and alting needs to be changed...
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: infamous on October 22, 2012, 08:27:41 pm
In-every-damn-mmo player which spends more time on game was, is and will be better than any other, os deal with it or not, you need to make more alts, or whole pvp system and alting needs to be changed...

tomo please
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: naossano on October 22, 2012, 09:04:12 pm
This thing was raised too much time to be ignored, in my opinion.

Personnally, i am for Fast Relog. I would even say that i was agains't cooldown before the Fast Relog was even there.

But i am feeling the proportion of players agains't it is increasing.

Maybe a middle ground would be :
- If you die in a town in which a TC timer is counting down, you'll have to wait 60 second before relogging.
It would give a bone to pvper who are agains't FR, while leaving some breathe, to other. Those who wan't to use FR in TC town would still be able to do it, as long as none start the timer.
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: Brujah on October 22, 2012, 09:08:32 pm
This thing was raised too much time to be ignored, in my opinion.

Personnally, i am for Fast Relog. I would even say that i was agains't cooldown before the Fast Relog was even there.

But i am feeling the proportion of players agains't it is increasing.

Maybe a middle ground would be :
- If you die in a town in which a TC timer is counting down, you'll have to wait 60 second before relogging.
It would give a bone to pvper who are agains't FR, while leaving some breathe, to other. Those who wan't to use FR in TC town would still be able to do it, as long as none start the timer.

I believe it's the contrary, you die in TC zone and you can FR immediately.


You die anywhere else you wait 3 minutes to relog.
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: DeputyDope on October 22, 2012, 09:29:55 pm
fast-relog is the worst feature ever. if you die, then you shouldn't be able to relog for 2 minutes (or more). it's boring like hell fighting waves of characters.
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: foonlinecurious on October 22, 2012, 09:34:21 pm

Maybe a middle ground would be :
- If you die in a town in which a TC timer is counting down, you'll have to wait 60 second before relogging.
It would give a bone to pvper who are agains't FR, while leaving some breathe, to other. Those who wan't to use FR in TC town would still be able to do it, as long as none start the timer.


Now it sounds like people are on the right track, +1 for using your brain

 THIS 
or maybe 120 seconds considering if you died it would take only 60 seconds to resurrect elsewhere

I believe it's the contrary, you die in TC zone and you can FR immediately.

You die anywhere else you wait 3 minutes to relog.

I think you missed the point brujah, people dont want people auto relogging to fight TC's
because that = cheesy, and gay, and unfair.

so if its a 5 VS 5 gang members, than its a 5 VS 5 gang members  not 5 VS (5 times however many alts you have ready for battle.)
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: T-888 on October 22, 2012, 09:37:40 pm
I have talked too much about this, actually a little bit sick of thinking about it.

I believe you can just set some CD on FR in combat, just any kind of CD, even if it's set only after logging on in two characters that have been recently in combat, it would compromise for both the players who like to have some extra alt for longer fights and those who can't have 4-5 of them and even more.

Drastically closing the gap.

There's this positive effect to it, it is possible for some sort of balance to exist. Nobody is going to stop playing because he can't use his characters one by one to the end of time, but players who just simply don't have them are discouraged to participate in certain activities that stimulates player interaction, yes, mindless killing, nobody cares, it's fun. Can't blame someone for not having as much alts as someone else, it shouldn't be some sort of bar to look up to and especially the least of all things accounted for - requirement to enjoy this game as any other player who have played this game years, there is always a difference, but currently there are only veterans left and FR isn't helping with that. There aren't any new gangs or factions formed, only the experienced player groups merging and or slowly deteriorating, the community just gets smaller and even if a new flag is raised, it falls as just as quickly because they can't into game because of some far-fetched features like current FR.

It all boils down as always if whether someone will lift a finger to do something about it by making just a very simple decision, witch is very obvious.

Game has to progress for it to exist, donations including.

Cash is what let the players play together, less player donate the better chances of the server running in a basement and that means any player who donates has to be interested in updates and well being of the server, it is essential to upkeep a stable population what is important for any player and for the donations themselves indirectly. If server is in a bad shape, it looses population and that is not good for anyone, donating or not.

http://fodev.net/forum/index.php/topic,22221.msg184030.html#msg184030
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: Brujah on October 23, 2012, 12:49:12 am
It's either FR or waves of mercs with proxies coming from players who willl never be banned for giga-logging.



FR can go away the day mercs do.
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: Fat Man on October 23, 2012, 07:16:32 am
I think perteks picture about wraps it up.

At this point and time this is the new normal of the game. But I cannot agree more in this arguement there should be no fast log period. Sure there was the cheaters using proxy dual log programs which could bypass this which is why it was removed. The ability to make an all in crafter is a nice feature, 6 hour crafting cool down is great, resources depleting meh its shitty but there is the alternative to science useless stuff.

Fast relog is nice in same ways for example you forget what character has a key, or if you want to first aid / doctor a character you are leveling. It is nice switching between alts. In pvp it is stupid, it is frustrating annoying to fight agiasnt.

This is why we all miss last session when the stakes were really high you had to take a town / defend it with one wave and people played their best. Now there isn't any high stakes no reward really, you win get some shitty broken metal armor and weapons 20% weapons. Why play your best when you can just rambo kill one then keep fast relogging until you get all your gear back?

It's either FR or waves of mercs with proxies coming from players who willl never be banned for giga-logging.



FR can go away the day mercs do.

Mercs are fine. I do not mind mercs, fast relog is just obnoxious to fight.

There is no use cry babying about dirty tactics any more about. Its normal, have to accept its the way of the game now, only way you are going to enjoy the game is to accept the shittiness of it and accept they don't care and won't change it.
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: avv on October 23, 2012, 11:04:32 am
Mercs are fine. I do not mind mercs, fast relog is just obnoxious to fight.

You know if it's not the fast relog waves, then it's the merc-waves. Since proxy might have so bad latency that normal gameplay isn't possible you can still spawn mercs with it. Talking about price is pointless because farmers gonna farm.
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: Rage master on October 23, 2012, 11:13:21 am
T-888 you are wrong. I foed new tc faction from guys who werent tc. Some of u guys were talking crap about tbw but try to make tc faction in just 2weeks like i did.
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: Daryl on October 23, 2012, 08:32:38 pm
Still fast relog is bullshit, it doesn't balance the game and its not fair, I say it shoul go back to the way it used to be,
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: Roachor on October 23, 2012, 09:42:58 pm
Still fast relog is bullshit, it doesn't balance the game and its not fair, I say it shoul go back to the way it used to be,

For the billionth time, they can't stop fr so it's better that everyone can do it.
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: T-888 on October 23, 2012, 11:22:13 pm
T-888 you are wrong.

Just because some new players didn't find it discouraging to level up multiple alts, grind gear, bases etc. etc. to fight doesn't mean it applies to all players and gangs, i saw your list of faction, few new players, that is not some achievement to be proud of or proves me wrong. :)

For the billionth time, they can't stop fr so it's better that everyone can do it.

For the infinitive time, FR wasn't ever that common, usually those were small cells that generally didn't have high impact on gameplay, just don't start giving examples from years ago or for that matter point fingers to some factions. I just know already what to write and how to argument all this.

FR in PvP = BAD
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: Roachor on October 24, 2012, 01:55:33 am
game is infinitely better without having to wait ten minutes every time you switch alts, pvp isn't everything
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: T-888 on October 24, 2012, 06:46:32 am
and that doesn't mean the waiting shouldn't be there, but just not when you aren't fighting. :)
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: manero on October 24, 2012, 07:39:36 am
game is infinitely better without having to wait ten minutes every time you switch alts...

It was 3 minutes.
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: Daryl on October 24, 2012, 08:31:07 am
They shoul stop fast relogging, like I said your 15 guys U kill there 15 but U gotta fight another 100 people its bullshit, it shoul go bk to 3 mins
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: AdolphbinStalin on October 27, 2012, 06:29:08 am
Maybe there should be a 2-3 limit of characters per IP/IP range.

I know when we set up PvP games in Fallout Tactics we prefer even teams; just more fun to know you have won due to skills and not because you outnumbered the other team. A win when you have more in numbers is expected; nothing skillful about that- it only demonstrates lack of skills if you loose.

I play other PvP games and its always preferable/more of a challenge/fun when teams are even and players are all of good skills.
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: naossano on October 27, 2012, 04:07:21 pm
What would be the point of forcing players to use proxies ? :-[

There are multiple interpretation about what kind of gamestyle Fonline is fitted, but in any of these styles, alts are needed.
Unless you're a GM, you will always need a new kind of build for any specific purpose...
Game is what it is. If you want to limit characters by players, you will have to limit the need of these characters.
By doing so, you may also remove some diversity in types of characters...
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: Blazekin on October 27, 2012, 11:34:20 pm
Maybe there should be a 2-3 limit of characters per IP/IP range.


I really like that idea. You'd have to choose what kind of characters you want carefully, and also would need to have more friends for more variety of character types for different situations.
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: avv on October 27, 2012, 11:57:46 pm
If you simply add 3 minutes timer on death in pvp, it will be bypassed. People who think this timer will solve everything will just be even angrier when they will face cheaters who shamelessly bypass this artificial obstacle.

If proxy is too laggy for pvp gaming, it will be used for spawning mercs.

Perhaps the game should try to aim towards improving a single character contiguously rather than making alts for everything and increasing the pvp strength with relog-alts.

But in the end the game will always boil down to one fact: farmers gonna farm. Only place where everyone is almost equal is hinkley.
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: Bulldog on October 28, 2012, 03:38:08 am
Would love to see the GM's enforce the fast-relog rule that would state that fast-relog should not give an advantage in pvp combat. They could just ban every single char that has been used at that moment by the rule-breaker. I know, proxies-blah-blah. Back in the days I've been caught even using proxy, all it takes is a little more attention on the GM side. I realize that there are not enough "active" GM's at the moment, perhaps we need some responsible people who are willing to watch the player base for fast-relog at least in TC combat? They don't have to have all the GM options, just some monitoring tools. I know the idea written in the text above is kind of old, but still, if well thought, it could solve the problem to a certain degree. At least it could be given a try, it's a beta after all.
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: AdolphbinStalin on October 28, 2012, 09:36:20 am
Would love to see the GM's enforce the fast-relog rule that would state that fast-relog should not give an advantage in pvp combat. They could just ban every single char that has been used at that moment by the rule-breaker. I know, proxies-blah-blah. Back in the days I've been caught even using proxy, all it takes is a little more attention on the GM side. I realize that there are not enough "active" GM's at the moment, perhaps we need some responsible people who are willing to watch the player base for fast-relog at least in TC combat? They don't have to have all the GM options, just some monitoring tools. I know the idea written in the text above is kind of old, but still, if well thought, it could solve the problem to a certain degree. At least it could be given a try, it's a beta after all.
This would work. Its not like the game has 100's of players to watch over. Maybe also give the DM's some fun tools in the form of a 'special gun' that does insta-kill damage to initially deal with any char(s) joining TC after a certain time etc. This will stop the fast-relog. The offending char(s) can then be traced to the player later and a warning given before outright banning  the char (on subsequent offences).
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: Brujah on October 28, 2012, 10:32:34 am
Would love to see the GM's enforce the fast-relog rule that would state that fast-relog should not give an advantage in pvp combat. They could just ban every single char that has been used at that moment by the rule-breaker. I know, proxies-blah-blah. Back in the days I've been caught even using proxy, all it takes is a little more attention on the GM side. I realize that there are not enough "active" GM's at the moment, perhaps we need some responsible people who are willing to watch the player base for fast-relog at least in TC combat? They don't have to have all the GM options, just some monitoring tools. I know the idea written in the text above is kind of old, but still, if well thought, it could solve the problem to a certain degree. At least it could be given a try, it's a beta after all.


This is extremely easy and doable, especially now with all those "channel zero come help me!" events, people fast-relog shamelessly there.
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: T-888 on October 28, 2012, 12:46:11 pm
If you simply add 3 minutes timer on death in pvp, it will be bypassed.

What does "it will be bypassed" mean, process that, think about what happened previous session, think about what is happening now.

I've explained how this is not a reason to not implement such a limitation multiple times now, "it will be bypassed", some unknown players, mole people, they live underground and plan to seize the control of governments and eventually the world, right? Do mole people hurt you? No they don't, even if they existed, they would most probably so few you couldn't give a shit about them.

People who think this timer will solve everything will just be even angrier when they will face cheaters who shamelessly bypass this artificial obstacle.

It'll not solve everything, it solve something.

Yeah and who would they be, "cheaters" tell me who would be those who would still come with multiple waves in TC just like now and ruin everyone's day? Even better tell me by what do you mean "bypass", what is that? I understand on basic level, but if you went into more details, please?

I just want to hear the big, magic flaw how FR CD will not achieve anything?
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: Fat Man on October 28, 2012, 01:16:42 pm
What does "it will be bypassed" mean, process that, think about what happened previous session, think about what is happening now.

Means somebody well use proxy address or remake the dual log/fast relog cheat program which modify fonline.exe and was able to open a new window with multiple .bat files. 

I've explained how this is not a reason to not implement such a limitation multiple times now, "it will be bypassed", some unknown players, mole people, they live underground and plan to seize the control of governments and eventually the world, right? Do mole people hurt you? No they don't, even if they existed, they would most probably so few you couldn't give a shit about them.
Quote

o0


Look best option is to give everybody same advantage do not think ban hammering everybody who use fast relogs and dual logs solves anything.

I think you shouldn't be able log in and out of game when replication timer is on, and if you try to ctrl-alt-delete and close program that way it won't let you on until that character disapears in game. Just figure out what causes "character with this login already in game" bug and work with that. Its sheer laziness its either put an effort into fixing fast relog and dual logs or say fuck it don't enforce such rules, less work.
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: avv on October 28, 2012, 02:03:30 pm
What I mean with bypassing is using multilog or proxy to avoid the timer.
In last session people did multilog and fastrelog in pvp, not at the same scale as now but it was more annoying because I was playing clean and there were people cheating in pvp and it was rarely punished.

Quote
Yeah and who would they be, "cheaters" tell me who would be those who would still come with multiple waves in TC just like now and ruin everyone's day?

Hell if I know, but what's certain is that there will be people doing it. It's common knowledge that if there's something you can do to gain advantage over others, it will be used. If the players are tempted to cheat, it shouldn't be surprising that some will do it.

Quote
I just want to hear the big, magic flaw how FR CD will not achieve anything?

You ain't gonna hear that from me because I never said it's not gonna help at all. Just said it's flawed way to fix pvp fastrelog because it can be bypassed. 
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: T-888 on October 28, 2012, 02:22:55 pm
Means somebody well use proxy address or remake the dual log/fast relog cheat program which modify fonline.exe and was able to open a new window with multiple .bat files. 

In practice it wasn't that common the .bat method, only small player cells used this to actually provide multiple combat characters. If someone used it, then it wasn't something that plays a huge roll on some larger scale, whole factions weren't forced on the same level, like now.

Proxies aren't usable for this.

It's a bit difference when you have to fight a faction witch has 2 times more alts than you or fight the same team who has few members "cheating", providing some extra-alts through .bat files, sure, shame on them, but they aren't going to affect much and in general the common player out there will be able to participate in PvP activities with 1 character.

Yeah, well FR CD isn't perfect, but it is better than nothing.

Quote
Look best option is to give everybody same advantage do not think ban hammering everybody who use fast relogs and dual logs solves anything.

This is a common misconception, everyone doesn't have the same advantage, because there is no limit for it. The faction who has more alts has the advantage, your back on square one, generally players win if they have more alts, more equipment, more, it is much more than ever about numbers than it ever was.


It's when a larger faction of more players use more alts than a faction with less players, per player.

Swarm, swarming has taken a whole new level.

Hell if I know, but what's certain is that there will be people doing it. It's common knowledge that if there's something you can do to gain advantage over others, it will be used. If the players are tempted to cheat, it shouldn't be surprising that some will do it.

Oh yeah sure, you was playing clean and you were annoyed that players cheat, but you have no idea who it was? :)

Please, tell me was it specifically of FR? Or was it those dual-log's + proxies etc. etc. because those 2 different things.
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: avv on October 28, 2012, 02:45:17 pm
Oh yeah sure, you was playing clean and you were annoyed that players cheat, but you have no idea who it was? :)

Please, tell me was it specifically of FR? Or was it those dual-log's + proxies etc. etc. because those 2 different things.

You want names and addresses? Is it that hard to believe that players will cheat to win? If I start naming cheaters here chances are that someone who was innocent gets in the list and derails the whole thread with personal attacks and different versions of past events.
You can keep nitpicking about differences of proxy, multilog, fastrelog or whatever but it won't change the fact that players will be tempted to bypass relog timer if it's added.   
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: Fat Man on October 28, 2012, 02:55:20 pm

Yeah, well FR CD isn't perfect, but it is better than nothing.

This is a common misconception, everyone doesn't have the same advantage, because there is no limit for it. The faction who has more alts has the advantage, your back on square one, generally players win if they have more alts, more equipment, more, it is much more than ever about numbers than it ever was.


It is the new normal of the game, and it takes adjusting to if you are still stuck in last session mind set. Fast relog annoys alot of players in PvP but at this point just have to deal with it and accept that players well abuse this until they decide to change this there is no sense in beating a dead horse.

It is more than just fast relogging the alts, making a lot of alts require ammo, gear this has to be farmed, and to supply all the alts you have to craft or farm the gear. Then to taxi all these characters over a map takes alot of time. It actually takes alot more work than you would think for somebody who just plays this game on weekends or couple of hours after school or work.

At same time you have a way bigger cool down, crafting doesn't take hours to make 3 brotherhood armors but many players were upset when they nerfed crafting cool down, then very happy when they changed it back.

The computer savvy and sophisicated well figure out a way to bypass a cool down or a relog timer no doubt do not disagree that not that many people well be able to cheat, and this current system does give free reign and makes the fast relogging easy and abuseable.

Other fonline servers, the 3 russian servers, or well now 2 that tlamk2 mysteriously disapeared after its wipe that fast relog is normal on these games, but the average fight takes longer as people have more hp, where as in this game you can lose and die fairly quick.
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: Killer Rabbit on October 30, 2012, 11:45:06 am
Fr is stupid, people use it everywhere. Simple example..i crafted yesterday 200ap rockets in sierra and morgan sneaker killed me outside and try to loot. I had my 1bg log offed in sierra So i killed her. She off and she went on sniper, i killed her she off and she came back with sg tank and 1cripler friend...i killed Them and they offed and they went on 3rd chars :) people use fr even in crafting zones...
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: Kool-Aid on October 30, 2012, 01:31:20 pm
So uh, mathermatically speaking , you think it's no better or the same when in a team of, for example, 20 people everyone fast relogs like 4 waves, which means, uhm 20x4 = 80 alts swarm the fight successively, compared to a team of the same amount in which averagely 5 no-life-dwelling-in-mommy's-basement-must-win-in-fonline-cuz-complexes cheaters/kids manage to set up 1 to 2 proxies with some (rather a hell) of foregoing troubles, summing up to 20 + in succession 5 + 5 = 30. So there's no difference between A and B, neither in balance, nor in fairness. 80 = 30 (disregarding possible bans of cheaters). And the latter method encourages cheating, so it's clearly the inferior approach.

Now this really overloads my brain. Is too much for me, fuck logic and all.
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: Andr3aZ on October 30, 2012, 02:41:47 pm
A little off-topic example of how to deal with things like this:

DayZ has a fix for the Alt+F4 "lol I just logout so I don't die"-guys
When entering combat mode (shooting, beeing shot at, bullets flying around your char) you insta-kill yourself on Alt+F4


How about you insta-kill yourself when fast relogging and fighting x minutes later? :)
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: Roachor on October 31, 2012, 12:32:55 am
A little off-topic example of how to deal with things like this:

DayZ has a fix for the Alt+F4 "lol I just logout so I don't die"-guys
When entering combat mode (shooting, beeing shot at, bullets flying around your char) you insta-kill yourself on Alt+F4


How about you insta-kill yourself when fast relogging and fighting x minutes later? :)

*gets lag spike*, sees enemy, dies randomly.
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: Fat Man on October 31, 2012, 01:48:43 am
So uh, mathermatically speaking , you think it's no better or the same when in a team of, for example, 20 people everyone fast relogs like 4 waves, which means, uhm 20x4 = 80 alts swarm the fight successively, compared to a team of the same amount in which averagely 5 no-life-dwelling-in-mommy's-basement-must-win-in-fonline-cuz-complexes cheaters/kids manage to set up 1 to 2 proxies with some (rather a hell) of foregoing troubles, summing up to 20 + in succession 5 + 5 = 30. So there's no difference between A and B, neither in balance, nor in fairness. 80 = 30 (disregarding possible bans of cheaters). And the latter method encourages cheating, so it's clearly the inferior approach.

Now this really overloads my brain. Is too much for me, fuck logic and all.

I think what you are trying to say is this...
(http://i50.tinypic.com/x1hztf.png)

In other words "No solution".

Its alot simplier if you think of the game like this

Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: S.T.A.L.K.E.R on October 31, 2012, 06:23:22 am
fast-relog is the worst feature ever.
haha, says the guy who fast relogs every time he dies
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: DeputyDope on November 01, 2012, 11:54:57 am
haha, says the guy who fast relogs every time he dies

1. how do you know that, by fast relogging i'm not just moving a character from spawn to my base?
2. why shouldn't i fast relog since everybody plays dirty in pvp, and i will have a major disadvantage if i don't do so.
3. how do you know that, by fast relogging, i'm not just logging in to some other character to do some tedious task (like fixing armors, cars, etc.)
4. ALL the time? you base this on what? (off) in front of my nick? see 1,2,3.
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: Perteks on November 01, 2012, 01:18:23 pm
1. how do you know that, by fast relogging i'm not just moving a character from spawn to my base?
2. why shouldn't i fast relog since everybody plays dirty in pvp, and i will have a major disadvantage if i don't do so.
3. how do you know that, by fast relogging, i'm not just logging in to some other character to do some tedious task (like fixing armors, cars, etc.)
4. ALL the time? you base this on what? (off) in front of my nick? see 1,2,3.
Because you are knowed noob and ragekid :D
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: davrot on November 01, 2012, 01:34:13 pm
Because you are knowed noob and ragekid :D
(https://i.imgur.com/ykJ7G.gif)
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: vinio on November 05, 2012, 07:23:12 am
May i propose a way that the fr can be resolved??i dont know if it can be done.but ill give it a try.ill say an example.A timer starting in bh.All oposing gangs have a small amount of time to start the attack sequence for example 5 min.after that 5 min cool down no1 can enter the town.its like hinkley no1 can enter untill the fight over.so u have 5 min for example of entering town with ur gang to kick ass and that's all.if u die u die u cant reenter with anything or anyone for lets say 10 min or maybe more in the same town that pvp event is going on.what do u think??its just an idea.
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: Swinglinered on November 05, 2012, 11:33:29 pm
May i propose a way that the fr can be resolved??i dont know if it can be done.but ill give it a try.ill say an example.A timer starting in bh.All oposing gangs have a small amount of time to start the attack sequence for example 5 min.after that 5 min cool down no1 can enter the town.its like hinkley no1 can enter untill the fight over.so u have 5 min for example of entering town with ur gang to kick ass and that's all.if u die u die u cant reenter with anything or anyone for lets say 10 min or maybe more in the same town that pvp event is going on.what do u think??its just an idea.

What is the in-game rationale for blocking access?

A magical forcefield?

Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: Rage master on November 06, 2012, 03:46:11 am
Jov jad best idea. 3min cd with -300%skill in (sg/bg/ew/unarm/mele) it can be obey but it is better Than nothing. And blocking town is stupid. What if 3rd gang Enter the town ---bbs--- they are So pro in 3rd party jump
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: Sarakin on November 06, 2012, 04:31:11 pm
May i propose a way that the fr can be resolved??i dont know if it can be done.but ill give it a try.ill say an example.A timer starting in bh.All oposing gangs have a small amount of time to start the attack sequence for example 5 min.after that 5 min cool down no1 can enter the town.its like hinkley no1 can enter untill the fight over.so u have 5 min for example of entering town with ur gang to kick ass and that's all.if u die u die u cant reenter with anything or anyone for lets say 10 min or maybe more in the same town that pvp event is going on.what do u think??its just an idea.
What about backstabbing and multigang fights ?
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: Swinglinered on November 07, 2012, 03:14:02 am
Also, battlefield looting is a time-honored tradition.
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: Roachor on November 07, 2012, 05:20:31 am
Also, battlefield looting is a time-honored tradition.
(http://www.prestoimages.net/store30/rd392/392_pd1475893_th5.jpg)
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: Mike Crosser on November 07, 2012, 12:20:33 pm
(http://www.prestoimages.net/store30/rd392/392_pd1475893_th5.jpg)
That's looting explained basically in one picture.
 
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: Fat Man on November 07, 2012, 01:43:39 pm
I think they already have an easy simple solution, just add back in the fast relog timer from last session it is simple they probably have the SDK code to copy and paste for this, but I do not know why they removed this.

It is easier to not create a solution then trying to think of the code to create a solution. But there isn't solution if they don't see it as a problem so therefore for RELOGGING DOES NOT EXIST AND NOW THE UNIVERSE WILL IMPLODE!

Ok in all seriousness just get used to fact that there is this feature, it is the only thing we can do no use whining about it for hours on end on the forum. Honestly I think it would be strange if they put a relog timer back in as we are all now used to fast relogging whether you use it for PvP or to switch between characters to craft and repair cars.
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: Roachor on November 07, 2012, 02:53:46 pm
I think they already have an easy simple solution, just add back in the fast relog timer from last session it is simple they probably have the SDK code to copy and paste for this, but I do not know why they removed this.

It is easier to not create a solution then trying to think of the code to create a solution. But there isn't solution if they don't see it as a problem so therefore for RELOGGING DOES NOT EXIST AND NOW THE UNIVERSE WILL IMPLODE!

Ok in all seriousness just get used to fact that there is this feature, it is the only thing we can do no use whining about it for hours on end on the forum. Honestly I think it would be strange if they put a relog timer back in as we are all now used to fast relogging whether you use it for PvP or to switch between characters to craft and repair cars.

What is wrong with you people that you need to be explained why fr timer is gone every single time? Get over it it's better this way.
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: Fat Man on November 07, 2012, 03:31:03 pm
What is wrong with you people that you need to be explained why fr timer is gone every single time? Get over it it's better this way.

Did I not say that there is no use whining about it and that its best to just to accept that this is the way of the game now?

Yes they removed it because 25% of the player base who don't have the mental capicity of a monkey when using a computer figured out how to bypass the relog timer with proxy addresses and created a hack. So its best to let everybody have the same advantage as the "cheaters" of last session. I get this roacher, but I think in terms of PvP that its was better when there wasn't fast relog. What I don't understand about the removal of this is that it was just such a small number of players who knew how to bypass the timer and didn't affect gameplay all that much and these people got banned constanly when they got caught. They went from one extreme to another they basically gave the ban hammer to anybody who used dual log and bypassed the fast relog timer to fuck it who cares lets just let them lets remove it and not enforce any rules in regards to it.

Fast relog is great for crafting, forgeting what character you logged off with a car key, its nice to switch between alts. In PvP its total shit, but I have accepted that people well abuse it level alts and its time to move on.
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: Mike Crosser on November 07, 2012, 03:33:45 pm
But, with no fast re log PvPers will go back to using proxies.
So this won't fix anything.
Might even make matters worse for those who do not know how proxies work.
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: Fat Man on November 07, 2012, 03:49:26 pm
But, with no fast re log PvPers will go back to using proxies.
So this won't fix anything.
Might even make matters worse for those who do not know how proxies work.

There isn't really any easy solution to the problem without writing some complex relog script, so its just easier to leave it as is. You have on one hand you make it super easy to fast relog with many alts, on the other hand make it more difficult to fast relog but only cheaters can.

Its just obnoxious to fight off wave after wave of alts for somebody who doesn't level more than 2-3 PvP characters which is why these threads keep popping up.

People who play this game for PvE and crafting but don't really engage in any town control/new reno PvP love it, then people who love to town control/reno PvP think its an obnoxious feature to fight agiasnt. Also some people who PvP love it because they have the alts and win the loot because of it.

I personally love it but also hate it, I love it for crafting and switching between characters without waiting 10 minutes is great but I hate it in PvP.

The thing you have to understand and why some of us hate this feature in regards to PvP is becuase last session we used one PvP alt to kill militia, then to engage in a town fight and the fights were one wave battles while time inbetween to wait for the other side to regroup and regear, now its just fast relogs alts coming in none stop and when you win a fight people come in with another wave in less than 30 seconds before you can fast relog to a looter or try to escape with the loot on a PvP character. But anyways a true PvP player cares more about winning the fight and frags than loot but at times its annoying to not get any gains from winning a fight when somebody just keeps coming at you every 20 seconds with another alt.
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: davrot on November 07, 2012, 03:57:44 pm
Well they could introduce the old system in the next update just to test if it will help bring back some players to the game.
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: Kelin on November 07, 2012, 04:10:02 pm
No please not the old 10 min relog timer. It really sucked, doesn't matter if the current system works or not, try to introduce some better solution not just bringing back the worst feature in 2238 history.  :-\
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: Mike Crosser on November 07, 2012, 04:53:40 pm
Wasn't the old system 2 min wait for relog?
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: vinio on November 07, 2012, 06:56:18 pm
What is the in-game rationale for blocking access?

A magical forcefield?

yeap.how do u think hinckley works?

also there is no solution to multigang fights.in fact i find them interesting.if more than 1 gang manage to enter town in a specific amount of time then its fair enouph.
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: Kelin on November 07, 2012, 08:17:40 pm
Wasn't the old system 2 min wait for relog?
No, it wasn't.
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: Andr3aZ on November 07, 2012, 11:14:50 pm
It said 10 minutes, but you could login again after 2-4 minutes.
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: Michaelh139 on November 08, 2012, 03:11:09 am
No, it wasn't.
Don't be a hyperbolating little whore bro, yes it was.  It was actually 3 minutes though, but nonetheless it sure as fuck wasn't no 10 minutes.

And I love the people who say "well all duh cheatahz will jst proxy so dat wunt solve anrthing".

Talk about being, as a certain demographic calls "ignant".  Proxy in PVP was so fucking rare it practically never happened.  (unless in incredibly small amounts that nobody noticed)  The only common usage for proxies was for sneaking scouts.  So that argument is a complete non-sequitor.

As long as admins/gms start waving the ban hammer around for it again, the constant waves of monkies will die down eventually and revert back to a stable state of pvp like it was previously.
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: Black Widow on November 08, 2012, 03:38:19 am
proxy was good for mercs/sneak/taxi/looter. set 3mins cd and it will help a lot.
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: Kelin on November 08, 2012, 04:43:59 am
blablablah
Ok man, if you know nothing about this game, better don't post. It was 3 minutes in case your character was already 7 minutes in game. If you logged in and immediately tried to relog you had to wait 10 minutes, do YOU finally get it?  ::)
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: manero on November 08, 2012, 09:49:25 am
Fast Relog? LOL
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: T-888 on November 08, 2012, 12:30:08 pm
Ok man, if you know nothing about this game, better don't post. It was 3 minutes in case your character was already 7 minutes in game. If you logged in and immediately tried to relog you had to wait 10 minutes, do YOU finally get it?  ::)

It was 3 minutes if you tried to log in to another character when your previous character was logged out, because 3 minutes is the time to log out a character. For people with some gray matter it was 3 minutes, for those who lacked brain cells, 10 minutes.

Though not sure what difference does it make by splitting hairs for this.

FR is bad, several solutions known, developers could just pick one of them and implement it, shouldn't be very complicated and it shouldn't take much time, yet nothing has been done by an issue witch has been acknowledged ages ago.

Talk about being, as a certain demographic calls "ignant".  Proxy in PVP was so fucking rare it practically never happened.  (unless in incredibly small amounts that nobody noticed)  The only common usage for proxies was for sneaking scouts.  So that argument is a complete non-sequitor.

As long as admins/gms start waving the ban hammer around for it again, the constant waves of monkies will die down eventually and revert back to a stable state of pvp like it was previously.

Some people have just a mental block and when they see some argumentation, it's like they can't comprehend it, white blindness or something, it's like someone wouldn't even see the sentence witch is rational and they keep on the circle saying the last thing they know as if what you said never happened. Like the argument wasn't there in the first place, that is why the sentence is invisible for them. White blindness has been observed at the very first "original" inhabitants of islands around the world when they first saw Spanish ships closing in on them, the thing is they didn't saw the ships, they couldn't comprehend that something like that is possible and therefore the ships didn't exist until someone smarter like the tribes shaman pointed out on the ships, only then everyone noticed floating structures and even then couldn't wrap their heads around of what the fuck is going on.

Shouldn't try so hard. ;D

Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: Black Widow on November 08, 2012, 12:54:08 pm
Maby tnb will give good example and they wont use 4-5waves in every fight?
Tnb was first gang who used fr waves.
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: Shangalar on November 08, 2012, 01:02:15 pm
Quote
It was 3 minutes if you tried to log in to another character when your previous character was logged out, because 3 minutes is the time to log out a character. For people with some gray matter it was 3 minutes, for those who lacked brain cells, 10 minutes.

Since Kelin is right, you're - one more time - the one who lacks brain cells here. Were you already playing at that time ?

Back to the thread, I'd say devs might prefer to wait for a more global solution, as this problem is not only about timeouts and FR but also about general mechanics of the game. If players had to spend 100% of their time on one character, if they were able to be more independent from their build, they would make less alts. That requires many changes though, not sure they will even be interested in beating that kind of challenge.
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: maszrum on November 08, 2012, 01:22:00 pm
3minute relog time its a simple and working solution against "waves" in towncontrol fights. why that feature has been removed on first place? to make game easier for some newcomers/roleplayers ?

if we are talking about relog on pvp here then, yes i belive its a solution. when i said something like that on irc i heard only "yes but its no solve a proxy mercenaries problem" - what is worse for good teamfight. 1 group of weak mercenaries or another group of players.


Maby tnb will give good example and they wont use 4-5waves in every fight?
Tnb was first gang who used fr waves.
of course, blame sot for everything. if you dont emember cs loss all fights with sot on beginign of season so they started fr. hoever is that really important? every gang is using fr nowdays.
form one side i miss times without fr, fomr other side its funny to have intense fights. like yesterday in bh. 1 hour of constant fight between tnb and bbs.
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: Shangalar on November 08, 2012, 01:24:23 pm
Yeah, and add some script to prevent mercs to be able to enter towns.
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: Fat Man on November 08, 2012, 01:40:08 pm
Yeah, and add some script to prevent mercs to be able to enter towns.

No. Mercs are fine and it is an expensive route to take and the time and effort put into gathering the caps and slaves is a good pay off if somebody wishes to use them. I do not see problem with mercs, fast relog PvP gets ridiculous after the 3rd and 4th wave of alts and is more of an annoyance than somebody using mercs.

The thing is if they put a timer in would people play honestly and not try to bypass or well the desperate to win figure out a way to bypass a timer and have a bigger advantage over those who do not know how to set up a proxy address.
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: Shangalar on November 08, 2012, 01:46:22 pm
Quote
No. Mercs are fine and it is an expensive route to take and the time and effort put into gathering the caps and slaves is a good pay off if somebody wishes to use them. I do not see problem with mercs, fast relog PvP gets ridiculous after the 3rd and 4th wave of alts and is more of an annoyance than somebody using mercs.

You never faced 40 muties. Mercs are not a problem when you have all those relogs. When you don't, they'll again be a pain in the ass.
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: Fat Man on November 08, 2012, 01:53:20 pm
You never faced 40 muties. Mercs are not a problem when you have all those relogs. When you don't, they'll again be a pain in the ass.

Sure I have, I have been in fights with mutants dropped on me plenty of times. I have PvP enough in this game and have every bull shit tactic done to me. Anyways if there is no fast relog how would somebody drop 40 muties unless they are cheating with dual log proxy?  Fast relog makes mercs even that more annoying than without fast relog. Fast relog or no fast relog mercs are still going to be a problem just accept that people well use mercs to win even if it isn't "honorable" pvp.

Mercs is an entirely differnt issue unrelated to fast relog, and its not a convicning arguement for the current system and rules to be changed.

At least we don't have militia now, militia was alot more annoying than mercs if you asked me.

I have already adjusted to the fact that there is fast relog c4 and mercs its dirty it isn't "honorable" pvp but it can be done and its best just to deal with it and think of ways to counter it.
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: Shangalar on November 08, 2012, 02:03:09 pm
Quote
I have already adjusted to the fact that there is fast relog c4 and mercs its dirty it isn't "honorable" pvp but it can be done and its best just to deal with it and think of ways to counter it.

I really hope devs are not as big cowards as you are. Usually when you're not happy with something, you grab your balls and you think about changes. Bye.
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: Fat Man on November 08, 2012, 02:13:49 pm
I really hope devs are not as big cowards as you are. Usually when you're not happy with something, you grab your balls and you think about changes. Bye.

LOL ok whatever, go cry more about mercs I'll be sure to bring some to next fight :)

I well tell you same thing they told me when I write agruements agaisnt ideas and write complaints about things I don't like. "Bunch of a whiners, deal with it."
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: davrot on November 08, 2012, 02:25:00 pm
Fast relog killed small pvp factions in this game. It all boils down to who can crank out more alts and use them as disposable handkerchiefs.
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: Black Widow on November 08, 2012, 02:42:59 pm
true...when we fought against tnb in redding last time we killed 70% of tnb with out any lost...and we got C4 bombed and fr on 2nd wave. we killed that wave but tnb used another and another....and it was early hour with mad horsmens who started timer. i am little sick of "Stolen" victories
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: Fat Man on November 08, 2012, 03:04:59 pm
true...when we fought against tnb in redding last time we killed 70% of tnb with out any lost...and we got C4 bombed and fr on 2nd wave. we killed that wave but tnb used another and another....and it was early hour with mad horsmens who started timer. i am little sick of "Stolen" victories

LOL that c4 bomb you have to admit was epic and kind of funny not at the time but thinking about it. But yup this is pretty much the PvP of this session.


My idea for a solution is a short timer no more than 2-3 minutes, can't connect from the same IP adress on unless talking to a GM and prove you play from same house hold (like the dual log tests and rule enforcement of last session) and remove ability to connect with a http/socks4/5 proxy address.

But maybe do this when there is the next session with wipe, I am fine with just finishing up this session with the way it is.
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: T-888 on November 08, 2012, 07:25:10 pm
Since Kelin is right, you're - one more time - the one who lacks brain cells here. Were you already playing at that time ?

In practice it was 3 minutes, no matter how you twist it, if you were someone who "respected" in game rules and waited those 10 minutes each time, i feel sorry for you.

You never faced 40 muties. Mercs are not a problem when you have all those relogs. When you don't, they'll again be a pain in the ass.

Dragons and unicorns. Tell me about them.

Last time you faced 40 mutants, you won without any FR, but that is besides the point. The point is we will never see such amount of mutants again, ever and that is because of changes done to mercenary system in current session. Oh right, for someone who doesn't play it might hard to recall something like that or be aware of that and someone who hasn't used them at least once this session.

You must look outside the box, there is something valuable for you, maybe.
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: DeputyDope on November 08, 2012, 08:29:08 pm
In practice it was 3 minutes,

in practice it was 0 minutes for some.
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: Kelin on November 08, 2012, 08:34:13 pm
In practice it was 3 minutes, no matter how you twist it, if you were someone who "respected" in game rules and waited those 10 minutes each time, i feel sorry for you.
I always thought the game rules were to be respected  :o

So basically what you say is when you cheated, you were able to bypass this 10 min cooldown, you had to have two FOnline clients and fastrelog after 3 minutes so no GM could catch you, right? Good Lord, what am I reading...
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: T-888 on November 08, 2012, 08:58:39 pm
Rarely anyone got banned for that, so using one client was an option.

Though the rules back then didn't make much sense at all, can't respect rules that are unreasonable, irrational, unnecessary. Back then players got banned for just doing some shortcuts for tedious tasks like adding characters to bases, organizing for some action with some taxi and for other very simple tasks that just simply made the game more bearable when it comes to time consumption, despite most of the rules where ignored there were those who enforced them and instead of changing something, they kept on enforcing the same old crap that didn't make sense.

Now that you say it was "cheating", i say it was common sense to do that. The 10 minute timer was never needed, was never good and never will be.
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: Kelin on November 08, 2012, 09:18:47 pm
Now that you say it was "cheating", i say it was common sense to do that. The 10 minute timer was never needed, was never good and never will be.
That's something I have to agree with, though I still wonder why such feature was ever implemented.
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: Fat Man on November 09, 2012, 06:53:37 am
Yes I hated the 10 minute timer. :D. I remember when I was noob I met this guy and the first thing we tried to figure out was how to bypass the relog timer. He basically changed his IP like 20 times a day just to bypass it lol. 10 minutes was just way too long to wait for. I mean really if you make an annoying feature and make the game overly difficult people are going to try to think of ways to make it easier. Then developers think of ways to nerf it and make it that much more difficult, welcome to 2238!
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: brad smalls on November 12, 2012, 03:43:59 am
I remeber FL last season being used by one or two people mostly for mercs
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: café saké on November 12, 2012, 07:04:59 am
I don't find a good way to suggest ...

Maybe do bigger maps in all towns must mitigate pervert effect of fast relog : more space, more time for moving to TC zone, more guerrilla/sniper field situations ...
I m not really experimented in TC situations but that seems (for me), if towns are bigger, like TC fights will be more strategicals and more longers in time.

And also improve sniper riffle range.
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: Fat Man on November 12, 2012, 01:24:33 pm
And also improve sniper riffle range.

50 hex range is a actually really long, 5hexes more than laser rifle 10 hexes more than rocket launcher and gatling laser. Also 15 hexes more than big gun bursting weapons. Problem with sniper rifle is its damage you can't kill any tc build with it but it makes up for its decent cripling and knock out affects. But snipers is not problem of fast relogging.
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: Gruik on November 12, 2012, 08:29:57 pm
I don't find a good way to suggest ...

Maybe do bigger maps in all towns must mitigate pervert effect of fast relog : more space, more time for moving to TC zone, more guerrilla/sniper field situations ...
I m not really experimented in TC situations but that seems (for me), if towns are bigger, like TC fights will be more strategicals and more longers in time.

And also improve sniper riffle range.

Pour toi :

Oulah, au contraire, agrandir les maps ça ne fera qu'enfoncer le problème, le problème du fast relog c'est qu'il est obligatoire pour être compétitif, car le jeu est désespérément vide de joueurs. Ca servirai à quoi d'agrandir des maps qui sont déjà complètement vides de toute façon ? Et je t'assure que les combats en TC sont déjà un minimum stratégiques et longs (selon que tout le monde FR ou pas bien sûr, ce qui compte c'est que tout le monde aie le même gameplay).

For non-french speaking ones ^^ :

Wow, at contrary, enlarge maps would just put the problem deeper, fast relog's problem is that it's obligatory to be competitive, because game is desperatly empty of players. What'll be the point of enlarge maps which already are totally empty anyways ? And I can assure you that TC fights are already a bit strategic and long (if everyone FR or not of course, what matters is that eveybody use the same gameplay).
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: brad smalls on November 15, 2012, 12:02:09 am
Ok this has gone on long enough firstly add a 5 or 10 min timer as a trial cause i am puting alot of faith in that gangs (Mostly SOT and BBS) wont FR proxy if its added
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: Brujah on November 15, 2012, 12:38:16 am
Ok this has gone on long enough firstly add a 5 or 10 min timer as a trial cause i am puting alot of faith in that gangs (Mostly SOT and BBS) wont FR proxy if its added

Do you really want to wait 5 minutes whenever you need to quickly switch between alts for non-PVP purposes?
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: Blazekin on November 15, 2012, 07:05:30 am
5 minutes sounds like just enough time to go grab some food or drink and get comfy again.
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: Roachor on November 15, 2012, 05:06:05 pm
I wish they'd lock this already, there is no debate. FR isn't goingaway and timers do nothing but grief the playerbase.
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: davrot on November 15, 2012, 05:30:49 pm
What playerbase?
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: Gruik on November 15, 2012, 09:01:56 pm
What playerbase?

Griefers. Snake biting its tail...
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: Ox-Skull on November 16, 2012, 12:22:52 am
Fast relog makes battles lame, stupid and a waste of time.
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: Roachor on November 16, 2012, 07:37:14 am
Fast relog makes battles lame, stupid and a waste of time.

Timer won't change anything
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: Ox-Skull on November 16, 2012, 09:46:05 am
Timer won't change anything

Only for the cheaters and players who cant play fair and must win at any cost.
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: 0m3n on November 16, 2012, 12:19:21 pm
Only for the cheaters and players who cant play fair and must win at any cost.

You mean whole 2238 pvp community?
Title: Re: fast relog
Post by: Mayck on November 16, 2012, 02:28:54 pm
Information value of last five posts is dangerously close to zero... Locked.