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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => General Game Discussion => Topic started by: Roachor on June 28, 2012, 10:50:42 pm
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I love you update. Time to make some ridiculous builds.
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WHAT???? Its really removed?
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WHAT???? Its really removed?
Yeah you were the 1st who posted in changelog topic.
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Mr. DD about removin' AC limit.
and i am gonna quit playing if that happens. like i said, have fun roaming empty 2238 map.
Dramatic, isn't it?
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220 AC jinxed bluesuit HtH trolls.
If sniper is created for 0 AC target, then... well then 220/4=55, then he'll shoot at "56 hexes range" in point blank range, what means he still will be able to kill him, may be...
And BGers won't have problems I think. Only "in your face" will help in 50% cases, but still they need to run into point blank range 1st. So this build won't do much.
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220 AC jinxed bluesuit HtH trolls.
Mah bad.
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Not possible.
Three traits requirement.
What 3? Kamikaze, Jinxed. What else do you need? May be you misuderstood HtH with HH. HtH mean hand-to-hand, not heavy handed.
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What 3? Kamikaze, Jinxed. What else do you need? May be you misuderstood HtH with HH. HtH mean hand-to-hand, not heavy handed.
Right... My eyes ain't workin' today.
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Yeah you were the 1st who posted in changelog topic.
well, I was just excited that I didn't read it yet
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Don`t get too excited, I am still on 90 AC (should have 100). Or is this only for new chars?
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AC CAP removed huh?
IT'S NINJA TIEMZ!!1
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I love this change.
Don`t get too excited, I am still on 90 AC (should have 100).
Could be capped when you increase base AC (take perks).
90 or 100 isn't a significant difference anyway so no big loss.
Or could be a bug... :-[ I will make test char and let you know today.
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lol max ac jinxed characters are hilarious...... there almost impossible to hit and when you do you critically fail :D
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Just tested it and on new characters there is no cap, so probably it was capped during taking perk.
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Ah, that`s a pity :-[
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I had an old char who had 90 and his ac calculates fine(100), you must be doing something wrong.
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Removing the ac cap was bad idea and should be inverted because it encourages trollbuilds.
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Removing the ac cap was bad idea and should be inverted because it encourages trollbuilds.
agreed.
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Removing the ac cap was bad idea and should be inverted because it encourages trollbuilds.
I do belive that it won't really change anything.
It might be a problem if the number of players will raise, but it would be too marvelous to be possible.
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I do belive that it won't really change anything.
It might be a problem if the number of players will raise, but it would be too marvelous to be possible.
and number of players won't raise EXACTLY BECAUSE OF THIS REASON!
get it? nobody wanted removed AC limit except for you.
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and number of players won't raise EXACTLY BECAUSE OF THIS REASON!
get it? nobody wanted removed AC limit except for you.
No. There are other, more important reasons why it won't rise.
Anyway, shouldn't you leave this game now? You promised us that you will, if the ac limit ll'b taken out.
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I do belive that it won't really change anything.
Here are some things I can think of, just off the top of my head. Probably even more creative things possible:
-5% chance-to-hit looter alt
-5% chance-to-hit scout/sneak
-In combination with SD: shoot/throw grenade, if they don't die, start running. Repeat.
-1-hexing with minigun: easily can get up to enemy since they only have 5% chance to hit you.
and NCR:
-5% chance-to-hit thief alt
Edit: on top of this, jinxed of course.
Lack of cap is not good.
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No. There are other, more important reasons why it won't rise.
wrong. the cumulative shitty features INCLUDING THIS ONE won't make the # of players rise. so don't try to deflect.
lots of players have suggested have suggested that removed AC is BS, and it seems the minority won?
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wrong. the cumulative shitty features INCLUDING THIS ONE won't make the # of players rise.
The time will show us who was right.
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The time will show us who was right.
ofc it's YOU who is always right, not listening to ONE argument why this sucks. check that thread again and open your eyes. i doubt you will though.
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ofc it's YOU who is always right, not listening to ONE argument why this sucks. selfish ass.
You said it.
And btw, I see no reason for your rude behavior.
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You said it.
And btw, I see no reason for your rude behavior.
can you tell me ONE sentece that proves i am rude (without you starting it ofc)? but i can give you 100 that prove you're a stubborn and selfish ass that likes to hear himself talk.
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i can give you 100 that prove you're a stubborn and selfish ass that likes to hear himself talk.
Can say even worse things about myself.
can you tell me ONE sentece that proves i am rude (without you starting it ofc)
75% of times when you met me in NCR you insult me for nuthin'. For fun I guess.
The best thing in it, is fact you act like "dick" to others aswell.
Also your rudness comes from yar vocabulary too.
I could quote ya for a whole day, but tell me - who will care about it?
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Uftak you haven't said one word how removing ac limit is good for the gameplay.
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ofc, try to DEFLECT again, uftak, just like you always do. also this is forum, not NCR, not anything else, ok?
and i NEVER would've insulted you if you wouldn't have been a xenophobic asshole to me ALL THE TIME so don't try to victimize yourself, ok sweetheart?
PS: me and avv (and many others) are STILL waiting for arguments why removing level cap is a good gameplay decision. so far what you posted is pure gibberish and deflections.
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Uftak you haven't said one word how removing ac limit is good for the gameplay.
Who said that I still belive it is good?
I'm rather neutral to it.
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How about you restrain yourselves with giving opinions until we see some high AC chars in the game.
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ofc, try to DEFLECT again, uftak, just like you always do.
and i NEVER would've insulted you if you wouldn't have been a xenophobic asshole to me ALL THE TIME so don't try to victimize yourself, ok sweetheart?
I see that you don't like when people "stand still and do nothing" eh?
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I'm rather neutral to it.
you're so "neutral" that on the previous topic you started a flame war with me. contradicting yourself FTW!
replying to you is like talking to a wall anyway, so screw it. you're a pathetic troll really craving for attention right now, so giving attention to you is a waste of energy.
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How about you restrain yourselves with giving opinions until we see some high AC chars in the game.
100 ac + in your face in tb and the molerat hits me 7 times in a row. wtf.
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100 ac + in your face in tb and the molerat hits me 7 times in a row. wtf.
Not sure how AC works in TB, I'm guessing it's also been changed since wipe, but did you have anything else besides unarmed weapons in your hands? Also, rock makes in-your-face not work since it has throwing.
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Not sure how AC works in TB, I'm guessing it's also been changed since wipe, but did you have anything else besides unarmed weapons in your hands? Also, rock makes in-your-face not work since it has throwing.
Yes im aware, no i was using spiked knuckles and as far as i can tell waiting with 2/10 ap left causes my ac to turn on in tb.
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Who said that I still belive it is good?
I made that thread in February. Now we have end of June.
Yes, I've changed my opinion 'bout AC.
Now I do not care about it at all. But, it still has some interestin' benefits, ya know?
The problem in high AC builds lays in "jinxed" trait, and in nothin' else.
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you're so "neutral" that on the previous topic you started a flame war with me. contradicting yourself FTW!
Deflecting you say?
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before anyone gets too excited about all these crazy unhittable builds let me just remind you out of 220 possible ac 60 is only for hth builds. so max ac for any other build is 160 and requires 3 perks, 10 agi and a trait.
I just had a thought about the rock thing, does that mean spears stop in your face from working too?
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I just had a thought about the rock thing, does that mean spears stop in your face from working too?
If you change it to "throw" option - then yes.
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If you change it to "throw" option - then yes.
Rock does not behave like that. It doesn't matter what mode you have it on. So I doubt spear works like that, but I could be wrong if you have actually tested it already. Edit: Okay, well nevertheless, rock doesn't work like that :<
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About few minutes ago I've tested sharpened pole.
It seems workin' with "in your face" in both modes.
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before anyone gets too excited about all these crazy unhittable builds let me just remind you out of 220 possible ac 60 is only for hth builds. so max ac for any other build is 160 and requires 3 perks, 10 agi and a trait.
Then you can squeeze in 10 int, few more perks that will make you a sneaker, SD ... nuff said. Trololololo auto crit, high AC rambo that melts faces with 300 damage per grenade, i think it's possible to squeeze in jinxed with kamikaze, what else do you need?
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what else do you need?
Players to kill.
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(http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/4366/sdnightmare.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/846/sdnightmare.png/)
Nuka, cigs, buffout, kamikaze (can't see on screen), build already with drugs. Now go out there and fight like real men!
tell me when your bored ...
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http://www.nitue.net/#fcp/direct!id=5402
sneak nader build is already op without dodge but heres one with 140 ac
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Doesn't need to be even a fighter build. With extremely high ac you can make a generic scout-troll-looter who just screws around with people.
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Doesn't need to be even a fighter build. With extremely high ac you can make a generic scout-troll-looter who just screws around with people.
handsome untouchable merc leader you say?
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handsome untouchable merc leader you say?
No but a bluesuit who spams himself in town and gathers intelligence and generally piss the hell out of the opposite team. If you did team-scale pvp you'd know what I mean.
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About the only valid use I can think of is miner alts that are used in Gecko/Redding mines.
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No but a bluesuit who spams himself in town and gathers intelligence and generally piss the hell out of the opposite team. If you did team-scale pvp you'd know what I mean.
::) yeah the concept of a scout isn't exactly groundbreaking
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How about you restrain yourselves with giving opinions until we see some high AC chars in the game.
Are you even serious?
How about you put your hands in fire and see if it's hot?
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Well the team would just need a few plasma grenades to ~ throw at the high ac characters.....problem solved.
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Well the team would just need a few plasma grenades to ~ throw at the high ac characters.....problem solved.
This sounds like a typical comment from a player who doesn't know how things work in practice. Why don't you test this method first to see if it works before stating anything near like "Problem solved". Nothing is solved.
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Scouting - so what, you can use sneaker anyway, and you don't have to run around all the time when doing it.
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Scouting - so what, you can use sneaker anyway, and you don't have to run around all the time when doing it.
Scouting is actually all about running around. Besides, high ac + sneak is possible.
The core point here is that builds that can operate in complete blues and cause trouble to geared players who risk their equipment bring no valuable content to this game.
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time for some ninja action
300 sneak 170 Melle 300 AC chars HERE I FOKIN COME
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http://www.nitue.net/#fcp/direct!id=5402
sneak nader build is already op without dodge but heres one with 140 ac
ST 6, crit. chance 1% with spray and pray wtf... if you really wanna make a proper troll, make a good one (T-888's build for example).
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ST 6, crit. chance 1% with spray and pray wtf... if you really wanna make a proper troll, make a good one (T-888's build for example).
It's a sneak nader, fool. why waste 9 special on luck when its 100% chance to crit with sd.
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It's a sneak nader, fool. why waste 9 special on luck when its 100% chance to crit with sd.
Pardon me, but it's a misunderstanding.
He probably means that spray and pray is kinda useless for sd nader build.
As you see T-888's build also has 1 luck.
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Pardon me, but it's a misunderstanding.
He probably means that spray and pray is kinda useless for sd nader build.
As you see T-888's build also has 1 luck.
spray and pray means sd grenade ignores armour, i'd say that's pretty important.
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spray and pray means sd grenade ignores armour, i'd say that's pretty important.
I'm afraid that it does not work on splash damage weapons.
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I'm afraid that it does not work on splash damage weapons.
Since when? you have any proof?
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Since when? you have any proof?
It has similar mechanics to "fast shot" - it affects on weapons with "target" mode.
Proof you say? Well I found some complaint posts on forum which were about this perk.
It is possible that I'm wrong, so ask Mr. Abe 'bout it, he might has better info than my person.
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Spray and Pray ignores only armor's critical chance modifier. That means if you already have SD(sure crit from behind), there's no use in taking that perk.
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Spray and Pray ignores only armor's critical chance modifier. That means if you already have SD(sure crit from behind), there's no use in taking that perk.
Great well whoever wrote "crit modifiers" should have used their brain and realized negatives on the crit table would also be considered as "crit modifiers". So it only affects half of the protection given by armour and not even the most important part?
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There is a changelog concerning spray & pray, defining what exactly it affects, search it for yourself.
On topic, now we have to wait another several months to have it removed :/
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I have a question for guys leveling high ac char.
Have you noticed a strange behaviour from critters?
As for me molerats, dogs , mantis ... go away from the encounter.
Or maybe it has nothing to do with AC.
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I have a question for guys leveling high ac char.
Have you noticed a strange behaviour from critters?
As for me molerats, dogs , mantis ... go away from the encounter.
Or maybe it has nothing to do with AC.
It only happens with high ac, I think when a critter has 0 chance to hit it loses sight of the player and flees to exit grid.
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Have to try that with Enclave patrols.
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Okay the game sure is messed up now. My bg with 200 gunskill and 7 PE has 16 hitchance from 5 hex to Racoon's char which had 220 AC. Onehex it? It has In Your Face.
In addition to that, npcs flee away from chars that have too big ac.
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How about you put your hands in fire and see if it's hot?
My bg with 200 gunskill and 7 PE has 16 hitchance from 5 hex to Racoon's char which had 220 AC. Onehex it? It has In Your Face.
Avv, i think you just burnt your hands.
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220 AC is ridicolous, i can rush even whole gang with this, also jinxed trait helps to annoy peoples even more. didnt checked if unity patrol flee too :D
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yep only 220 ac means you have a shitty hth build. basically it only works for a crit build, and since hth already did shit dmg and got seriously nerfed by the new crit tables you have a guy who can't be hit who can only run around. It's the ultimate ncr idler build. It's fun for pve and for annoying apes and trolls, but ultimately isn't viable for combat since you can't really hurt anyone.
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Heh. Try this, make any NPC's flee in an encounter, then try to shoot at them with a different character. Also this could have some impact, the second character comes through a beacon when they are already fleeing, then try to shoot them. The second character could be long range too, so you actually are outside of their sight when they are fleeing, shoot.
I have to say, the results might be interesting, depending on how their AI is written. They might still try to reach the exit grid, but would be unable due to combat, freeze, the specific NPC might start to attack without making nearby NPC's aggresive( if so then attack with the high AC character again.), so all others leave.
Ehh of course, high AC snipers could be interesting.
Though abusing game features is against the rules. ;D
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160 ac isn't that great and snipers are pretty perk heavy builds. I don't really see it as viable without the hth perks.
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Hmm, your right perk heavy, but i was thinking against npc's. 160 AC on long range fights is huge anyway, too much actually, with 90-95 AC, each sniper would have like 5% chance to hit in eyes, since they always have very precisely made builds dependant on fixed AC, give or take.
I think livewire + 10 agility, kamikaze should equal around ~80 AC with CA. That's not hard to squeeze in, could prove mighty efficient, let's say you replace more critial and are virtually untouchable at long ranges. Sounds like a good deal to me.
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Someone tested 220 AC vs NCR guards already? :D
They hit? Run away? Run in point blank? Or they have 300% SG 10 PE sharp +NPC abuse always 95% to hit?
May be 220 AC build will make NCR funnier.
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I tried 200 AC on ncr guards. Guards killed me. Though i was lagging ...
High ac char is just the pure troll character. You can't kill anybody, loot as much as you want, anoy apes...
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Someone tested 220 AC vs NCR guards already? :D
They hit? Run away? Run in point blank? Or they have 300% SG 10 PE sharp +NPC abuse always 95% to hit?
May be 220 AC build will make NCR funnier.
i have tested. 220 ac + jinxed. they kill you in 3 shots, never miss. i was running ofc
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I tried 200 AC on ncr guards. Guards killed me. Though i was lagging ...
High ac char is just the pure troll character. You can't kill anybody, loot as much as you want, anoy apes...
looting means stopping, stopping means death.
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looting means stopping, stopping means death.
Yes if the one who doesn't want you to loot reacts immediately and has the action points to take down a bluesuit with 200 hp, which is accessible for high ac builds.
Besides what if he isn't going to loot but dismantle gear on the ground. Destroying quality gear is well worth a bluesuit's life.
Honestly this game needs everything but builds that can operate without any gear. If someone disagrees with this, I can tell he has no clue how the core mechanics that make the game interesting work.
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Honestly this game needs everything but builds that can operate without any gear. If someone disagrees with this, I can tell he has no clue how the core mechanics that make the game interesting work.
I don't agree on that its not the builds that can operate without gears. Many NPCs have no weapon at all and still able to fight (wilders, unarmed mutants for example). Why shouldn't a player be able to do that too? Only cause there are some players who go around trolling? Also if someone wants to troll he doesn't need a hth or high ac char. Any char is ok since just entering the same place to use up the ammo of the enemies is a trolling too. And its possible to get close to gears and science them even with those chars.
We should avoid not seeing the forest for the trees. No character build is a troll but the player.
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Jotisz - one of the trolls
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Jotisz - one of the trolls
This argument is invalid, move along
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I don't agree on that its not the builds that can operate without gears. Many NPCs have no weapon at all and still able to fight (wilders, unarmed mutants for example). Why shouldn't a player be able to do that too? Only cause there are some players who go around trolling? Also if someone wants to troll he doesn't need a hth or high ac char. Any char is ok since just entering the same place to use up the ammo of the enemies is a trolling too. And its possible to get close to gears and science them even with those chars.
We should avoid not seeing the forest for the trees. No character build is a troll but the player.
Of course you can fight like those NPCs, but dont expect to beat some better equipped player. What are the results of one well-equipped guy against this unarmed NPC ?
The problem with current troll builds is that for almost no equipment required they perform too good.
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Of course you can fight like those NPCs, but dont expect to beat some better equipped player. What are the results of one well-equipped guy against this unarmed NPC ?
The problem with current troll builds is that for almost no equipment required they perform too good.
Super mutant mercs can kill a well-equipped player however only in closed environment. The character I use isn't so over powered still from time to time I can do some moves that forces my opponent to run away (not cause heavy handed they run cause their hands gets broken or I steal their weapon).
About the fact that some chars perform too good compared to their equipment I agree with that. A fix on that for Heavy Handed could be to have the chance for knock down based on ST difference not ST*10 cause now 10 st is 100% knock down. Anyway I talked about this on some other thread about heavy handed lazy to search for it and also its about AC cap removal.
Removing of AC could help a little against crit bgers in my opinion although even with 200 AC from 15-20 hex with 180-200 weapon skill the chance for hit is above 85%.
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Jotisz what I mean is that when you wear nothing, you got nothing to lose. When you got nothing to lose you aren't afraid to die and start doing stupid things. When players have something to lose it makes the game much more interesting. This is why they shouldn't be able to do much without gear that they have to farm and restock if they die.
Comparing npcs to players is pointless because npc have no goals, players do.
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I agree with Avv, And some of the stuff added to this game are just not needed.
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Removing of AC could help a little against crit bgers in my opinion although even with 200 AC from 15-20 hex with 180-200 weapon skill the chance for hit is above 85%.
It affects not only BGers, but all characters. Wouldnt it be easier just to adjust BG dmg output rather than this ?
FYI, BGer with 200% skill, 7 str and 5 pe against 220 AC bluesuit at 1 hex got only 20% chance to hit (and thats where "In your face" kicks in). Theres just no way how to counter such build, because 300% skill with 10 pe would provide you with only 24% chance to hit at max range.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqDY8PpKBmE&feature=youtu.be
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I have problems hitting those trollcharacters with a melee build, i can imagine how it's for someone with a weapon in hands that can be destroyed.
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I have problems hitting those trollcharacters with a melee build, i can imagine how it's for someone with a weapon in hands that can be destroyed.
10 PE SS 300% EW fast shot, from 1 to 30 hexes 95% to hit. AC trolls raging.
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10 PE SS 300% EW fast shot, from 1 to 30 hexes 95% to hit. AC trolls raging.
You do it.
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That's exactly what i was going to imply.
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You do it.
There're alts for wood cutting, Sha Enin-killing, steal-failing so guards will tell his name, why there will be no anti-AC alts?
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Create another otherwise pointless build to counter something really dumb and retarded. No thanks.
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There're alts for wood cutting, Sha Enin-killing, steal-failing so guards will tell his name, why there will be no anti-AC alts?
simple. CoA is made up of semi-casuals who wont stoop down to hawks' level to make bluesuit builds for tc for the sole reasong of trolling (or killing trolls for that matter)
The 2 corpses you see at the beginning of the video are actually 2 heavy handed guys that later were spawned together with their main force.
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theses builds make me rage. they have 220 ac and fucking jinxed! its madnes every second shot is fail/destroy weapon.
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...who wont stoop down to hawks' level to make bluesuit builds for tc for the sole reasong of trolling...
The 2 corpses you see at the beginning of the video are actually 2 heavy handed guys that later were spawned together with their main force.
Actually none of those 4 bluesuits is hawks ::) the reason we don't shoot them is because I already got 4 avengers destroyed because of them.
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theses builds make me rage. they have 220 ac and fucking jinxed! its madnes every second shot is fail/destroy weapon.
I love AC for the exact same reason. Plus it's not like a hth build is that dangerous.
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I love AC for the exact same reason.
Sounds like pure fun, running around in bluesuit watching people who spent lots of their time getting some stuff and you just come and destroy their weapons, hahaha yes I laughed.
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I love AC for the exact same reason. Plus it's not like a hth build is that dangerous.
It's not the hth build but free scouting, safe looting and item dismantling. High ac suicide bomber is also a potential risk.
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yeah they piss me off too. you cant hit it, your weapon drops, explodes, you lost turn or hit your teammate. that sucks :( also this troll can rush you and hit hard with super sledge or something.
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8) It sure can. Btw I don't run around bs, robes make it much more badass. Too bad ac doesn't work properly with pve, i don't get how a centaur can hit me when i have 200 ac.
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Well I think this whole thing was just and experiment, and in all honesty I think it should go back to 90 or put the cap a little lower. I don't even think 10 perception and 300% skill in any combat skill can kill these guys.
Heavy Handed is bad enough as it is, but now you just gave these guys god mode with 220ac, jinxed and in your face its just way too much.
In the original fallout the dodger perk was just something where it made enemies miss a more when they shoot you but not that often, this isn't the matrix we don't need people who can dodge bullets.
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See how far you get with hh and jinxed. hh requires you to not miss and takes many punches to kill someone, aimed shots aren't fast enough to stunlock. So either you waste 10 points on luck to minimize the effects of jinxed or you break limbs. Jinxed is the perk that screws up hh, doesn't synergize well at all. High ac is pretty much made for crit builds only.
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See how far you get with hh and jinxed. hh requires you to not miss and takes many punches to kill someone, aimed shots aren't fast enough to stunlock. So either you waste 10 points on luck to minimize the effects of jinxed or you break limbs. Jinxed is the perk that screws up hh, doesn't synergize well at all. High ac is pretty much made for crit builds only.
WTF? Have you not shot these ac trolls with jinxed and in your face, and then they can just run up to you and heavy hand? You can still punch people with 2 broken arms.
There is something very wrong when a swarm of 10-15 people cant kill one blue suit running around with 220ac+jinxed.
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you cant have AC + jinxed + heavy handed
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you cant have AC + jinxed + heavy handed
Well... Without kamikaze the maximum AC is 180... but I think it won't be the same...
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You guys are right, but I am sure with the way this work 180 is no differnt than 220, even with 90ac cap my snipers with 240-250% skill would miss, but big gunners could still kill a troll with 90ac. So I'd imagine 180 would still just be as bad as 220 but you are right you can't do all three but it is ridiculous none the less either way. We don't need blue suits running around with god mode this is 2238 the wasteland is harsh bluesuits need to die end of story.
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actually only snipers can kill 220 ac character, and by headshot/eyeshot from 10-15 hexes. big gunner dont have chance to hit you.
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You forget that taking such high AC rather limits your options of A) your traits and also B) your available perks. It becomes a step system of 'how much AC are you comfortable with for your uses?' and when you feel you've reached it. Depending on play styles, this can vary. I myself see no reason to go so high as to 220 AC, because that sounds horribly gimped/useless in an actual fight.
As well- I was making an hth AC char from start of wipe, so bitch all you want about them. People got snipers, criticals, sneaks, and this other bullshit. This is a viable build to counter (shitty)things like all those laser/sniper rifles shooting your eyes at 50 range.
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You forget that taking such high AC rather limits your options of A) your traits and also B) your available perks. It becomes a step system of 'how much AC are you comfortable with for your uses?' and when you feel you've reached it. Depending on play styles, this can vary. I myself see no reason to go so high as to 220 AC, because that sounds horribly gimped/useless in an actual fight.
As well- I was making an hth AC char from start of wipe, so bitch all you want about them. People got snipers, criticals, sneaks, and this other bullshit. This is a viable build to counter (shitty)things like all those laser/sniper rifles shooting your eyes at 50 range.
Yes but you can kill sneakers snipers tanks uber l337 op power ape build. These guys you CAN'T kill. I have never heard of a game where you can play a character that can't be killed, in most cases its called cheating or god mode. 2238 isn't about surviving 15 people shooting at you, its about 15 people shooting at your character then replicating and then being butthurt for a week and cry babying about swarmers because the wasteland is harsh. I don't see how this counters anything, all that is going on with these builds is random people running around popular PvP areas jinxing people. So yes lets all make high AC builds so nobody can kill eachother and waste 15 minutes of our lives watching our characters miss, and jinxing eachother, that is exactly what we want in this game.
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Those guys can't be killed. And they can't kill you. Unlike sneakers, who were just nerfed from their throne of OPness
Their sole purpose is annoying people from time to time and scout at best.
You forget that taking such high AC rather limits your options of A) your traits and also B) your available perks. It becomes a step system of 'how much AC are you comfortable with for your uses?' and when you feel you've reached it. Depending on play styles, this can vary. I myself see no reason to go so high as to 220 AC, because that sounds horribly gimped/useless in an actual fight.
As well- I was making an hth AC char from start of wipe, so bitch all you want about them. People got snipers, criticals, sneaks, and this other bullshit. This is a viable build to counter (shitty)things like all those laser/sniper rifles shooting your eyes at 50 range.
Agreed, couldn't write it better. Also you need like 10 agility to get the maximum out of lifewire.
With AC melee/hth has more viable (and good) options now. Tho I don't get it why you consider max AC as 'gimped', honestly.
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Ok so here is my arguement, walk with m60 becuase its realistic, good gear is hard to obtain because its realistic? But having the ability to dodge bullets while 15-20 even 50 people firing at you is realisitc? I thought this was a fallout game not the matrix.
So what's in the next update the walk through wall perk? Or how about the aim bot perk? Or how about speed hack perk?
Do you guys even play your own game and try to see it from a players perspective, or participate in PvP or log into the server with a none GM character? Or do you rely on feedback from people you select to test things who don't report anything when they discover a bug or exploit which gives them a huge advantage over other players.
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Ok so here is my arguement, walk with m60 becuase its realistic, good gear is hard to obtain because its realistic? But having the ability to dodge bullets while 15-20 even 50 people firing at you is realisitc? I thought this was a fallout game not the matrix.
Nobody claimed the game is nor tries to be 100% realistic. It's a goddamn game and not real life. Walking with m60 ain't much more realistic then running with a much heavier minigun or bazooka. Also why the fuck can you escape mobs by simply running to exit grid, or being unable to because of Combat timer ? Where's the realism here, you tell me.
High tier gear is hard to get because otherwise everybody would run around with BA's only and there would be no need for other armors. Its gameplay reasons and diversity, really.
So what's in the next update the walk through wall perk? Or how about the aim bot perk? Or how about speed hack perk?
There is already an aim bot built in. It's called autoaim.
And no, I never play the game without being in GM mode lol....
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When this was in closed beta test it was asked many times why only walking with m60 and they gave the reason because of realism. And the reasoning behind it was the m60 in real life requires a person to prone to fire it so that is why this feature is in the game. I am not making this up.
That is not an aim bot, that is just a script that was implamented so people don't have to open the target menu to do aimed shots becuase people were making their own scripts and cheating when this feature wasn't in the game. I am refering to a counter-strike like aim bot where you don't even need to use the mouse to aim and shoot a script does it for you faster, and more accurate than a human ever could.
But sure I guess you are on your way to getting your power armor or cookies defending these type of none sense ideas. I think this has been tested enough we've seen it in action its not really a direction most PvP players would prefer, just set it back to 90 or make a tad bit higher to 120 or something. Also 10 agility is not that big of a sacrifice when considering you could just do a 5 5 5 5 10 5 build and have your max ac neo matrix wanna-be un-killable character.
Also we all ran around in BA last wipe and most people I talk to all agree that last session was a better session.
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Nobody should be unkillable. Poeple who are for this feature are just trolls. I hope this will be fixed in next update.
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next update.
I love these two words. They give some much hope to this game.
Also I've never seen/met any immortal chars (except gms/devs) so dunno wat'ya mean.
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You forget that taking such high AC rather limits your options of A) your traits and also B) your available perks. It becomes a step system of 'how much AC are you comfortable with for your uses?' and when you feel you've reached it. Depending on play styles, this can vary. I myself see no reason to go so high as to 220 AC, because that sounds horribly gimped/useless in an actual fight.
As well- I was making an hth AC char from start of wipe, so bitch all you want about them. People got snipers, criticals, sneaks, and this other bullshit. This is a viable build to counter (shitty)things like all those laser/sniper rifles shooting your eyes at 50 range.
ok guys, I first thought about pointing that out a couple of posts ago, too bad I didn't. What the video I posted shows is
FREE SCOUTINGwithout having to risk anything. There's not even the need for sneakers and the 220ac chars can well be 12PE chars. I couldnt care less about the actual combat capabilites but the free scouting is what really can ruin pvp.
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ok guys, I first thought about pointing that out a couple of posts ago, too bad I didn't. What the video I posted shows is
FREE SCOUTINGwithout having to risk anything. There's not even the need for sneakers and the 220ac chars can well be 12PE chars. I couldnt care less about the actual combat capabilites but the free scouting is what really can ruin pvp.
Wasteland is harsh all blue suit scouts should die like in a normal 2238 game. If somebody walks into an area with no gear blue suit they should be able to die like the build with top gear and best weapons when being shot at by 15 people. This game shouldn't be rewarding those lazy people who want to run around blue suit, its harsh remember?
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can ruin pvp.
Fast-relog already done it. But ye... It's always possible to make it worse.
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Fast-relog already done it. But ye... It's always possible to make it worse.
You can kill waves of fast logging uber l337 ape builds with 15 people, but you can't kill 1 blue suit with max ac with 15 people.
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You can kill waves of fast logging uber l337 ape builds with 15 people, but you can't kill 1 blue suit with max ac with 15 people.
I can, unarmed and melee work well on em.
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I can, unarmed and melee work well on em.
you can never catch up to someone as a melee, your argument is invalid.
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you can never catch up to someone as a melee, your argument is invalid.
So why even bother killing them? Scouts cannot pain your ass so much..
If my enemy will make a little mistake and stop for a second-he's dead (ofc if he hasn't got backup)
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So why even bother killing them? Scouts cannot pain your ass so much..
Are you serious? Are you honestly saying that scouts are no threat to anyone?
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Are you serious? Are you honestly saying that scouts are no threat to anyone?
I said that there are more dangerous things in this game.
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I said that there are more dangerous things in this game.
What does that even mean? Of course there are more dangerous things in the game. But this is about scouting.
Scouting is one of the key elements in pvp. No smart team makes action before having scouted their enemy. The enemy does its best to fight off the scouts, denying information from the assailants. But killing a high ac scout is rather hard and he isn't even risking anything. If you honestly don't realize how powerful free scouting with high ac is, you deserve a noob-stamp in your forehead.
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What does that even mean? Of course there are more dangerous things in the game. But this is about scouting.
But killing a high ac scout is rather hard
I guess so.
and he isn't even risking anything.
From when scouts are risking' anything?
don't realize how powerful free scouting with high ac is, you deserve a noob-stamp in your forehead.
I love where this conversation is comin', please F.L.A.M.E me, I don't remember when somebody done this pleasure to me.
Oh and that "why even bother killing them" was rather a sarcasm, don't worry if you don't get it, I sometimes got same problems.
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From when scouts are risking' anything?
Since people were using sneaks who use actual gear. Personally I have nader/bg and gatling laser sneaks. Risking enough? Or should I perhaps carry additional 100k caps in my inventory?
I love where this conversation is comin', please F.L.A.M.E me, I don't remember when somebody done this pleasure to me.
It's coming to the point where it's clear you don't know what you're talking about.
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lol, Slick i guess you to make own 220 ac troll and enjoy gaming its really funny playing on dodger.
I can, unarmed and melee work well on em.
you mean heavy handed?
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Sneaking also offer free scouting, high ac char are just another option now.
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My issue isn't scouting, the issue is that you cannot kill them, doesn't matter if they are scouting or trying to pick a broc flower, its just isn't fitting in this game which is about who can make who butthurt first. This game shouldn't be about running around blue suit and being invicible. Its about dying greifing and butthurt, blue suits have to suffer death and replication just like a normal combat character with 100% combat armor and avenger.
And also it makes no sense with this whole "realism theme" they were trying to go for, lets make m60 realistic and remove the 10mm smg from being an easily farmable weapon? But lets make it where blue suits can run around without dying?
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you mean heavy handed?
The magic trick lays in makin' enemy impossible to move fast, so let's count HH makin' that too.
Anyway I think it's the end of HH troll builds, quick recovery works from now.
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The magic trick lays in makin' enemy impossible to move fast, so let's count HH makin' that too.
Anyway I think it's the end of HH troll builds, quick recovery works from now.
FINALLY they fixed that.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqDY8PpKBmE&feature=youtu.be
It makes very little sense that there can be, and is, completely visible enemy bluesuits running next to heavily armed groups without the armed ones being able to do much about it. One basic idea of a scout is that if it's seen by the enemy it dies. I'm amazed by some people being able to argue about the most idiotic feature since SD nades.
How is it any good to have 220AC bluesuit trolls in game? I fail to understand.
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Let's sum it up, thanks to high AC and jinxed you can:
- scout without being killed
- destroy or drop enemy weapons
- freely loot (if you're fast enough)
- science items on the ground
- kill lonely weak targets
As a bonus you don't need to spend hours of farming, crafting, trading and stealing to get this, all you need is just one dedicated char which can be leveled in few hours, pretty cool huh?
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Let's sum it up, thanks to high AC and jinxed you can:
- scout without being killed
- destroy or drop enemy weapons
- freely loot (if you're fast enough)
- science items on the ground
- kill weak targets
As a bonus you don't need to spend hours of farming, crafting, trading and stealing to get this, all you need is just one dedicated char which can be leveled in few hours, pretty cool huh?
Whoa, I think I'm gonna start abusin' it.
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There is also something you forgot about scouting with high ac troll, it s pretty annoying because he has to run everytime. he doesn't have a good field of view.
Though i do agree that high ac char are the ultimate useless troll character ...
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Sneaking also offer free scouting, high ac char are just another option now.
Sneaks can be hunted down and killed by other sneaks.
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Sneaks can be hunted down and killed by other sneaks.
AC trolls can be hunted down and trolled by another AC trolls, he'll just run around him and say bad things about him and his allies will be unable to kill him too. This way everyone will scout everyone and they will just watch that stupid 2 bluesuiters running around.
Or he can be hunted down by
10 PE SS 300% EW fast shot
That can be parked on WM and wait till one AC troll appears to be used.
Also you can give bazooka to your non-BG friend who will shoot you and miss, and if dodger was in 40 hexes, he'll be hit.
Or you can throw plasma grenades on ground near him.
Or you can make melee tank in armor who will try to kill AC troll, but you will shoot your melee friend with explosive rocket when he's near to be sure that rocket will hit AC troll.
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...
Wow, didn't really think of all the great fun it adds. I'm afraid I have to take back all my bad words about the high AC trol... entertainers.
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Only rat :D he is professional scout killer. It seems I have an evil twin here or something...
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Sciencing items on the ground? So you wait for the guy to stand still to shoot him. Why are your items on the ground anyways? I'd like to know why nonhuman npcs seem to be able to hit me while I'm running past with 200 ac. I love how it's made taking on gangs in rt possible, still hard to kite and manage aggro but having the possibility of surviving press gangs with hth is epic.
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Sciencing items on the ground? So you wait for the guy to stand still to shoot him. Why are your items on the ground anyways?
How can you not know and still keep presenting arguments? I don't want to teach you what's going on ingame so maybe you should go and experience it yourself before talking about the whole subject here.
Anyway:
In combat people die and drop their items when their bodies disappear. In the heat of the combat there definitely isn't time to start looting items until all enemies have been hunted down so many trolls come in and try to loot or science the items to harass the combatants while they are busy. High ac is effective in looting and sciecing those items. Sneak-trolls come right after.
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How can you not know and still keep presenting arguments? I don't want to teach you what's going on ingame so maybe you should go and experience it yourself before talking about the whole subject here.
Anyway:
In combat people die and drop their items when their bodies disappear. In the heat of the combat there definitely isn't time to start looting items until all enemies have been hunted down so many trolls come in and try to loot or science the items to harass the combatants while they are busy. High ac is effective in looting and sciecing those items. Sneak-trolls come right after.
Your first mistake is caring about your gear, this sounds a lot to me like whining since everyone has always lost gear to looters since the dawn of time. How are you still complaining about sneak trolls with sd nades gone?
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I got great news for ya gentlemen.
AC won't be nerfed this session, no matter how you whine about it.
But ignore me, if ya want to show others how big whiners ya are, just continue it.
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Your first mistake is caring about your gear, this sounds a lot to me like whining since everyone has always lost gear to looters since the dawn of time. How are you still complaining about sneak trolls with sd nades gone?
But the game is about gear and items since there's nothing else to lose. Risking items is what makes the game exciting. Winners loot, not trolls who risk nothing. That makes gameplay fair and fun.
You yourself proved not to fully understand the subject in question and suddenly I'm whining? How about we stick to facts instead of trying to guess each other's motives for talking here.
Sneak is still pretty cheap because it's free invisibility. But that's another issue.
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High ac builds have no room for combat perks, sneak requires 10int and only allows for 1 skill at 180%. Nothing is free. The trolls "looting" you are usually the same people who killed you fastlogging.
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High ac builds have no room for combat perks, sneak requires 10int and only allows for 1 skill at 180%. Nothing is free. The trolls "looting" you are usually the same people who killed you fastlogging.
But the problem wasn't that the high ac builds are good fighters. Free scouting, sciencing and looting was the issue.
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I stopped playing a year ago when people had mass leveled sneak looters after sneak "fix", now we have another kind of trolls, matrix agent smith looters, scouts and the best blue pajama jinxed trolls, devs or whoever made this update do the double facepalm remove all updates for the last 2 years - failure after failure
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Yes this is why I have stopped playing after this update because they nerf crafting, and changed a bunch of random shit nerfed all the builds of 2 major pvp factions. If it was anything needs nerfing it's AC trolls, not crafting and jet builds. Its stupid I work hard crafting armors, farming gear it is just stupid that the guy who goes into pvp zone with no gear who can't be killed, but all the guys in 100% armors and good weapons die and get looted by these guys who work hard at nothing.
But anyways PvP is not about loot or gear its about a good fight, and its not a fun fight when you bring your friends and they can't kill 1 blue suit running around.