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[Swinglinered]

If we are on to suggestions for Devs to implement to balance the mechanic of thieving I propose these:

1)  Player has the option to shout "Thief!"  If the thief PC has attempted to thieve then the police in civilized areas will react and the thief must evade the police.  Capture by police = 10% exp reduction due to lack of being able to practice skills during "jail time."  Thief must avoid that town for the next 30 real time minutes if they do successfully evade.

2)  Player manages to kill thief.  On their corpse they find a "map" to thief's tent.  When at the tent they get to take 25% of whatever they find there.

1.Towns don't have resources for Jail- except VC, Hub, NCR.
How is capture effected?
Choice of fight or surrender?
2. Where does this map come from? How is the 25% rule enforced? By magic? You get into someone's tent, you should be able to do whatever you want.

[Reginmund]

If we are on to suggestions for Devs to implement to balance the mechanic of thieving I propose these:

1)  Player has the option to shout "Thief!"  If the thief PC has attempted to thieve then the police in civilized areas will react and the thief must evade the police.  Capture by police = 10% exp reduction due to lack of being able to practice skills during "jail time."  Thief must avoid that town for the next 30 real time minutes if they do successfully evade.

2)  Player manages to kill thief.  On their corpse they find a "map" to thief's tent.  When at the tent they get to take 25% of whatever they find there.


I am in love with myself for these new ideas.

1. Without a change in animation you would probably see lots of people shouting thief to no avail.

2. Map is a stupid idea as it assumes the thief is stupid enough to not know his way which means he probably shouldn't have much and would probably be jailed for a long time.

[HertogJan]

Non Thief Arguement: Thieving drains on gameplay, and is an in general annoyance. Remove it.

Thief Arguement: Thief is a very serious part of the game, this game will be dead to me if I can't take other people's hard earned items.

YEP!

That pretty much sums it up.
With the bank interest this session, not to mention PK teams, grid camping, etc. I have to disagree on the "hard earned items" part.


Due to lack of time I missed out on the previous 2 or 3 pages and am not going to respond on all of the replies I missed (but did read).
Some suggestions to fix improve some of the aspects related to stealing (and other actions resulting in loss of protection):
1. Unprotected stays after death. Default time is 1 hour for players with a neutral rep, 1.5 hours for people with a lower rep and 30 minutes for those with a higher rep.
2. When an unprotected player enters a town:
a. Guards make a comment when an unprotected player enters town. Something like "player name, tread carefully", or "player name, we're keeping an eye on you". Everyone around now knows that person is unprotected. They can shoot him or leave him alone. That's there choice. People not around still won't know.
b. Guards shoot unprotected players on sight when they enter the town. If this is implemented, some solution should be thought up for players who have a hotel room in that town. Something like always spawning inside it and not just outside it.
3. During the time that you're unprotected with a faction, that faction becomes hostile in encounters.
4. Guards loot. No matter who shoots who. Everyone else looting before the guards loot, will be shot on sight. Guars also loot radios. Guard's loot could be added to a trader's inventory, could be sold by some guard merchant, auctioned, ... Giving it back to the rightful owner sounds impossible to me. How can that be determined. The last owner might not be the rightful owner.
5. The current stealing countdown stays. A 2nd is added which is related to the victim. The moment the inventory windows closes after the steal attempt, the thief can't use steal on that victim for 5 minutes. Other thieves can still steal from that victim.
6. Stealing should get its own animation.

[cannotspace]

If we are on to suggestions for Devs to implement to balance the mechanic of thieving I propose these:

1)  Player has the option to shout "Thief!"  If the thief PC has attempted to thieve then the police in civilized areas will react and the thief must evade the police.  Capture by police = 10% exp reduction due to lack of being able to practice skills during "jail time."  Thief must avoid that town for the next 30 real time minutes if they do successfully evade.

2)  Player manages to kill thief.  On their corpse they find a "map" to thief's tent.  When at the tent they get to take 25% of whatever they find there.


I am in love with myself for these new ideas.

The tent thing is very stupid.

Anyways, I would just use a fake tent if I made a thief if such thing was implemented

[Swinglinered]

That pretty much sums it up.
With the bank interest this session, not to mention PK teams, grid camping, etc. I have to disagree on the "hard earned items" part.



1. Unprotected stays after death. Default time is 1 hour for players with a neutral rep, 1.5 hours for people with a lower rep and 30 minutes for those with a higher rep.

Or scale it for the number up or down. Negative 1000 seconds (counting up to zero) plus or minus rep.

2. When an unprotected player enters a town:
a. Guards make a comment when an unprotected player enters town. Something like "player name, tread carefully", or "player name, we're keeping an eye on you". Everyone around now knows that person is unprotected. They can shoot him or leave him alone. That's there choice. People not around still won't know.

Is he a known unprotected or just unprotected? Like if he failed stealing but was not seen by guards.

b. Guards shoot unprotected players on sight when they enter the town. If this is implemented, some solution should be thought up for players who have a hotel room in that town. Something like always spawning inside it and not just outside it.

Wasteland harsh. Yes.

3. During the time that you're unprotected with a faction, that faction becomes hostile in encounters.

At what distance, map wise? Is there a time of information travel?

4. Guards loot. No matter who shoots who. Everyone else looting before the guards loot, will be shot on sight. Guars also loot radios. Guard's loot could be added to a trader's inventory, could be sold by some guard merchant, auctioned, ... Giving it back to the rightful owner sounds impossible to me. How can that be determined. The last owner might not be the rightful owner.

How would they know it last person was rightful owner?
Items can be flagged, person stolen from may get a rep-based discount on buyback from the Cop Store.
With a timer on buyback, also based on rep.

5. The current stealing countdown stays. A 2nd is added which is related to the victim. The moment the inventory windows closes after the steal attempt, the thief can't use steal on that victim for 5 minutes. Other thieves can still steal from that victim.

Whether detected or not?
Should be based on detection.

6. Stealing should get its own animation.

Yes.
Maybe half of the push and half of the "fiddle".

Also: NPCs should be stealable again.

[HertogJan]

Is he a known unprotected or just unprotected? Like if he failed stealing but was not seen by guards.

Guards should know when he reenters. Wether or not they've seen it.

At what distance, map wise? Is there a time of information travel?

World map wise. Information can travel fast by radio.

How would they know it last person was rightful owner?

That's my point. Several people suggested it should be given back to the rightful owner.

Whether detected or not?
Should be based on detection.

The thief always has that countdown.
Wether the victim is aware of it or not should depend on the thief failing or not.

Also: NPCs should be stealable again.

Some are, some are not.

[Deagonx]

At what distance, map wise? Is there a time of information travel?

There are a lot of aspects that don't make sense. For example if I kill 2 Junktown Scouts out in the wastes.. Why would that lower my rep?
Some argue the point of their radios. So I guess the same could be said for this.


Personally, I think that if someone walks away during a stealing attempt it should count as a failure. Also, if someone fails a steal attempt they can't steal from that person for 5 minutes.

[HertogJan]

Personally, I think that if someone walks away during a stealing attempt it should count as a failure. Also, if someone fails a steal attempt they can't steal from that person for 5 minutes.

Walking away shouldn't count as failed steal and therefore resulting in the loss of rep and protection.
That would be way too much nerving.

Any steal attempt, failed or not, should result in the 5 minutes cooldown.
In case of a failed attempt, the victim should see the cooldown too.

[foonlinecurious]

Invoke some kind of penalty for failed steals, like maybe your arm gets crippled for set duration
lose of xp, or shop prices go up slightly for set duration.  This will atleast give blue suite thieves something to lose.

Maybe those are harsh? i dont know, im just brain storming here, im not saying i would do this if i had the power, these are merely ideas.

I do however like the idea of being able to kill the thief without being attacked by the guards.

or if someone is caught stealing enough they get reputation as a thief, and all shop prices are
raised for that character by say 15 % in that town ?   maybe this already exists, I dont know

[Deagonx]

Walking away shouldn't count as failed steal and therefore resulting in the loss of rep and protection.
That would be way too much nerving.

I disagree, it makes perfect sense. If they walk away they obviously saw you thiefing them.

[kraskish]

From the other hand - thief has to really work his ass off to steal something valuable and not just some shitty crap.

I lol'd. Bad experience talking or none at all?

[HertogJan]

I disagree, it makes perfect sense. If they walk away they obviously saw you thiefing them.

As I said, that's some serious nerving.
Also how to make the difference between walking away because someone tried to steal, or simply because you're done trading?
How to make the difference between walking away and being pushed out of the way (goes for both the thief and his victim) by some lame ass impatient griever eager to trade?

Invoke some kind of penalty for failed steals, like maybe your arm gets crippled for set duration
lose of xp, or shop prices go up slightly for set duration.  This will atleast give blue suite thieves something to lose.

Maybe those are harsh? i dont know, im just brain storming here, im not saying i would do this if i had the power, these are merely ideas.

I do however like the idea of being able to kill the thief without being attacked by the guards.

or if someone is caught stealing enough they get reputation as a thief, and all shop prices are
raised for that character by say 15 % in that town ?   maybe this already exists, I dont know

Arm crippling for a failed steal? What's next? Crippled legs for not running a way in an encounter and being hit by a critter?
A failed steal already means you lose xp.
Different shop pricing for thieves only means they let an alt do their trading.

Attacking thieves or people you assume are thieves or you assume have stolen from you won't do anything.
Thieves cooperate (already happening on a small scale), all use steal, 1 steals, you shoot the wrong person and get killed for attacking the wrong person.
Which will result in more whining about removing stealing.

[foonlinecurious]

Quick fix, make it so you cant steal special items, and just normal items?
Don't know how hard that would be to implement, but at least you wont lose your unique items you traveled halfway across the wastes to get, or items only attainable through certain quests.

[HertogJan]

Quick fix, make it so you cant steal special items, and just normal items?
Don't know how hard that would be to implement, but at least you wont lose your unique items you traveled halfway across the wastes to get, or items only attainable through certain quests.

You can get an encounter and get shot in it by other players, npc or critters and lose the item(s) that way.

[foonlinecurious]

Well, I think the bigger concern was getting pick pocketed by blue suits with nothing to lose.