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[Johnnybravo]

No matter how hard I try, I cannot name more than 4 weapons for whole EW (L30 could be fifth it is was ever useful, but well does not really matter for following anyway).

The problem is that to make EW any fair, they need some rather expensive weapons to be compared with top of other categories, and to make it ever useful it needs some cheap as well.

This basically means there is almost no way to balance their cost and usefulness and give EW players some progression, compared to 9001 SG models (though good deal of them are lame F2 weapons copying various WW2/Vietnam models, at least something is there).

Another problem is the quite limited use in original series, leaving quite little choices. However Fonline (and some wrong F2 design) reduced this number considerably.

Here's a list of existing EW weapons in Fallout universe (red being unavailable):

Laser Pistol (+magneto)
Plasma Pistol (+ex)
Laser Rifle (+ex)
Gatling Laser
Plasma Rifle (+turbo)
Pulse Pistol
Pulse Rifle
This means there is 8 weapons available in Fonline and 11 weapons total.

Optimally there would be about 4 tiers of weapons (beginner, mass used, hq crafted and uncraftable).
With 8 available weapons there would be 2 per tier, not really bad, as some choice is left.
However in reality, of those 8 weapons, 3 are upgrades that do have nearly no effect, leaving 5 weapons per tier, and so it leaves nearly no choice ( almost 1 weapon per tier, there being really just competition between laser rifle and plasma pistol as they are in about same category ).

Why did I say upgrades are meaningless?
Let's iterate them:
Magneto-Laser Pistol - add penetrate perk (dividing DT by 3, round down), in the best case it's 50% increase!
However that is in case of targeting tesla armor, and difference is making ~1 damge in ~2 damage per shot.
In case of Metal Mk2 which is commonly used protection from lasers, it improves ~4 damage to ~5 damage, still way too poor to see those pistols perform different roles or be considered as different tiers.
Laser Rifle (Ext.) - double capacity. For BROF aimed shooting (any realistic way to use this weapon at the moment) reloading takes less than 3% of your spent AP. In case of BROF+Fast Shot it's still only 5.5% usage, meaning you would save 1.3%/2.7% of your AP with the upgrade. Nothing else granted. For shooting 100 times, you will save enough AP to fire 1 extra aimed shot, or 2 extra fast shots.
Plasma Pistol (Ext.) -similar story as for ext. Laser Rifle, in case of BROF+Fast Shot reloading takes 6.25% of your AP, changing the saving to 3.125% - that means it will save you AP for only ONE extra shot per ~30 shots (because in this case shooting takes the same amount of AP as reloading).

I am not saying EW should be buffed, however it would be really nice to change those upgrades to be meaningful upgrades. It wouldn't really hurt canon if you care so much about it, because those descriptions can be interpreted in multiple ways in game mechanics - and frankly, recycler chip allowing you to load your rifle more? Not exactly anything that would description suggest.

[Wallace]

More than one and half year ago i suggested that all the weapons could be upgradeable within different aspects (damage, range, mag size, accuracy, deterio rate, etc.). Every level of upgrade would consume more and more resources. But at least if you'd see someone with Mauser you wouldn't be laughing because it could have been psycho-upgraded little bazooka...
I didn't see however any (meaningful) response in that matter...

So i second your idea but don't think it'll be implemented... (though i hope it will, more or less)

I've put it in another post - so i'll paste my quote here:
===========================================================
« Reply #31 on: January 13, 2010, 02:13:21 pm »
Once again i'll remind the idea of possibility for crafters to upgrade (not only) small guns as well as ammo

Every new tier of upgrades would require more skills (last tier would require 250 in a skill such as repair and 150 in small guns)

Also different parts/capabilities could be upgraded (rate of fire, range, damage, accuracy, accesories such as noe exp. mag. and so on)

Such weapons would require more and more, eighter time,skills and resources and would be harder to repair


If such thing were to be implemented then even if you'd see a bluesuit with Mauser you couldn't be sure if he just took it from some dead raider or been tinkering with it so much that is now some sort of a super cannon

Now to balance weapons usage just make small guns upgrades rather effortless in comparing with big guns (and energy weaps)
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[Grommok]

Well, i suggested some time ago to make EW "true", with maintence, and instead of "ammo-battery" give them actually batteries (so that they store energy, like cars). Any battery could be used on any EW to charge a certain amount of shots. Since this would require to
1. Open Inventory
2. Find Battery
3. Find Weapon
4. Use Battery on Weapon
5. Close inventory
Probably EW would have disappered from PvP fights, and RT fights in general. But you have to count that obivious, this way there would have been more than just 12-Batteries in magazine, but actually something like 30-40 shots. This would have made the Extended Capacitors actually useful, adding something like 50% more shots loadable. Obiviously that would have came with many other upgrades, like a power reclycler(each shot uses less energy), improved lenses(increased range-damage), new wirings (adding durability/range/damage, depending on wiring) and so on...
This way atleast one of the various improvements would make sense.

Magneto-Laser, by the way, should partially ignore Laser/Electric resistance, actually being able to penetrate Tesla's defensive magnetic field.

[Johnnybravo]

I fail to see how removing interface option would justify crappy upgrade. (especially since there is no cost for opening inventory in Fonline)
And even so, descriptions on upgrades are implying the weapon consume less ammo, not having greater capacity.
If it was really supposed to work as described, you would probably get 24 shots from loading it with 12 'ammo'  (unloading those weapons really make little sense, but in that case it'd be divided by 2, round down).

But the point is - upgrades are supposed to fill the holes, because there is way too little to choose from.

Magneto-Laser, by the way, should partially ignore Laser/Electric resistance

It was -5DT and -50DR in Fallout 2 and the weapon was still useless by the way.
In Fonline it divides DT by 3 (so the most notable increase is on Tesla armor, but DR is as high as 90%, meaning to increase damage by 1, one would have to ignore 10 DT.

[Crazy]

But the point is - upgrades are supposed to fill the holes, because there is way too little to choose from.
It was -5DT and -50DR in Fallout 2 and the weapon was still useless by the way.


In Fonline it divides DT by 3 (so the most notable increase is on Tesla armor, but DR is as high as 90%, meaning to increase damage by 1, one would have to ignore 10 DT.

It divide DT by 5 actually, it's Armor piercing perk (ammo perk) which divide by 3 (if I remember correctly).

[Johnnybravo]

It divide DT by 5 actually, it's Armor piercing perk (ammo perk) which divide by 3 (if I remember correctly).

Wiki states 3, though in both case increase would be about 1-2 damage per shot on all possible armors.

[Grommok]

I fail to see how removing interface option would justify crappy upgrade. (especially since there is no cost for opening inventory in Fonline)

Because EW would have a sort of "energy reserve" like cars. This means that every cell is not like a bullet, but a TRUE energy cell. You use cell on weapon, weapon gets recharged. Right now Energy Cells are treated like bullets, and with this thing (AKA power storage) having Extented Capacitor (the name doesnt imply that it is less power-consuming, but that can store more power) means that you can actually have more power before needing to look for another cell in your backpack. You might get more shots because, with normal capacitators, a part of the energy gets out of the cell without getting in the capacitator because it's full, otherwise makes no sense that

you would probably get 24 shots from loading it with 12 'ammo'

[Wallace]

Well even though you can divide single energy cell to 40 or 50 "bullets" and it is unrealistic as hell it doesn't bother me (and i bet many other players as well)

So for now i say to leave it as it is... for now.

It isn't much of a bother after all

[Grommok]

Isnt a bother, it's just unrealistic.

[Johnnybravo]

People with rocket launchers are already doing it, but because there is only one ammo for those weapons, I still fail to see any reason why remove "reload" button when it does the EXACTLY SAME thing as moving ammo on your weapon in inventory.

having Extented Capacitor

This is Fonline specific, weapon description is however (also in F2)

Code: [Select]

This Wattz 2000 laser rifle has had its recharging system upgraded and a special recycling chip installed that reduces the drain on the micro fusion cell by 50%.
Anyway this is still pointless because there is nearly no benefit in combat from upgrading your weapon with this.
Neither for Magneto-Laser Pistol because it simply fails to improve efficiency beyond very few percents.

If those weapons were supposed to be one tier higher when upgraded, they would have to be improvements over their base versions.

For example currently, there are 3 levels of professions and several tierless and several uncraftable items. Flamethrower is craftable by everyone without any profession required, Improved Flamethrower requires BG2 and has about 45% better damage than base one.
This is example of really different weapons based on the same model, making upgrade look meaningful.

There is no such thing for EW, even though 3 of 5 available weapons are upgradable in Fonline.

Isnt a bother, it's just unrealistic.

It's a game, not simulator. And even if the Fallout feature of ammo packs was added in Fonline, it wouldn't change the efficiency of those weapons, just increase cost of using some. Nothing really exciting, and definitely NOT THE POINT OF THIS THREAD.