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[Badger]

Just wanted to get this off my chest. It just doesn't work. I vote we just scrap it. I know how easily avoided it is, I just think it's stupid that I have to run around a shop while a guy in his underwear chases and repairs me. It detracts from the game. I appreciate that this is a dangerous post-apocalyptic wasteland, and that's fine. But I think full loot does that job well enough.

Here's a brief summary of everything that doesn't work about it:

No risk. Thieves are in their Vault PJs, but they can steal your assault rifle.

Know he's a thief? Tough shit. You can't do anything until the guards spot him, even if you know he's about to/already has robbed you.

Thief Alt! The associated reputation drops mean that you create a character specifically for thievery. Then you either use it to supply your main or you just use it to irritate the fuck out of people.

LOL I TROL U It irritates the hell out of players, new and old alike.

Please feel free to comment/argue against/make sweet love to one another.

[Surf]

Well, what to say, agreed on all points there. Will still most likely never change.

[cannotspace]

I have a thief charand even I agree with this lol

I think there just needs to be some repercussions, they steal, if they're caught, no loss for neither of the players, if they're caught but still get something, after being killed there's an high chance a guard or someone else loots him, if he isn't caught, he gets free stuff.

Problem here is that there's no loss at all for the thief.

[Eternauta]

I agree with Badger, I think his arguments are all valid.

[Kilgore]

Well, it would be boring if all agreed on it, so:

Thief Alt! - People make crafter alts, taxi alts... so what? Are you going to suggest disabling outdoorsman/repair/science next time? Alts are typical for 2238 and to play it, you need more than one character. Of course, you can play one character, but hey! You could also play some stupid build, and what comes out of it? Inability to make anything.
Know he's a thief? Tough shit. - It can be fixed easily. Some ways to fix it were already mentioned in other suggestions.
LOL I TROL U - This is not only about steal, there are lots of things used to "troll" not involving stealing. Not valid argument, in my opinion.
No risk. - Unfortunately, that's true and I don't think that anything beyond reputation drop or changing respawn system can be done here.

Thieves are a part of this game, as well as so-called PKs or suicide bombers. Okay, they are annoying, then what? This is not Kitty Online. What are you going to suggest after this one? Disabling PvP combat?

All of the issues above can be fixed somehow, so don't need to scrap steal.. just need to rework it a bit.

[JustGreat]

While thieving is annoying I think it can be improved instead of removed.

No risk. Thieves are in their Vault PJs, but they can steal your assault rifle.

Know he's a thief? Tough shit. You can't do anything until the guards spot him, even if you know he's about to/already has robbed you.

Thief Alt! The associated reputation drops mean that you create a character specifically for thievery. Then you either use it to supply your main or you just use it to irritate the fuck out of people.

LOL I TROL U It irritates the hell out of players, new and old alike.

1. Allow unprotection to stay depending on time, rather than death of the thief. (say 30min-1hr)

2. Upcoming engine changes will implement darkness levels, hence I believe stealing should take a huge penalty in daylight/lit locations. This will encourage thieves to prowl at night, rather than steal in broad daylight, as well as stay away from stores.

3. With the soon to be 3D era, we can have a costume that burglars wear (can be just a black outfit), that would be a requirement for a thief to steal (or at least steal from players). So a thief would need to put in time/caps into the outfit before he can steal your precious assault rifle. (Hence now thieves have a risk, since the outfit would drop upon death)

4. Thieves are currently a one way build (similar to a crafter, which are getting reworked with the coming update), the same can apply to thieves. In general if you want a skill to be useful, it has to be useful in PvP, or it is then more efficient to create an alt (crafter, taxi, lock picker, etc.) or left unused (speech, gambling). I propose Stealing to work similar to UO's Wrestling in PvP, but that might be a bit of an extreme suggestion seeing the negativity to thieving in this topic. [This is actually a reworking of the skill, rather than a limitation.]

We can of course impose more restrictions on stealing but what I proposed would be sufficient.

[Lexx]

2. Upcoming engine changes will implement darkness levels, hence I believe stealing should take a huge penalty in daylight/lit locations.

Such engine changes are done by cvet. We can't do anything about it- therefore it's not sure when such feature will be implemented.

[Rascal]

there are so many simple ways to avoid bieng robbed that I really dont see any point of "nerfing" thief more than he is now. From the other hand - thief has to really work his ass off to steal something valuable and not just some shitty crap. For me its just another whining topic - "omg I got robbed nerf thief".

[RavenousRat]

From the other hand - thief has to really work his ass off to steal something valuable and not just some shitty crap.

I don't think someone is making thief to... steal valuable stuff and then use it. There're much faster and easier ways to get it, thieves are like bombers or suicidal bursters, but instead of killing, they only taking items. It's skill to destroy items in someone's inventory for noones profit, not another type of farming (except for BoS members robbing BoS patrols, but this topic is about PvP stealing.) Also I think it's ok ^_^ Of couse it's really sad when someone's losing his newly bought leather jacket, when that played just started and 250 caps was everything he had, but if someone wants to nerf stealing, I think he'll also ask to make activating dynamit in guarded towns and shooting in point blank with burst weapon impossible. Oh, also make 9999 hp guards with gauss rifles with 100% crit chance always rolling max critical roll and damage.

[OskaRus]

I think PvP stealing is highly overrated. By stealing any npcs u make more in same time. PvP stealing is just for irritating the people. I agree with kilgore that it should be possible for normal chars to shoot the thief and take his stuff back.

[Hololasima]

Agreed Badger. Also it sound promising what Lexx said about it.

[HertogJan]

As far as I'm concerned thieves can be shot and looted by guards if they fail. Unprotected players should be shot on sight when entering a town. They caused trouble in the town, guards should react on that.
I also wouldn't mind if guards treat failed stealing from pc and npc equal. Meaning they kill the thief.

While thieving is annoying I think it can be improved instead of removed.

1. Allow unprotection to stay depending on time, rather than death of the thief. (say 30min-1hr)

3. With the soon to be 3D era, we can have a costume that burglars wear (can be just a black outfit), that would be a requirement for a thief to steal (or at least steal from players). So a thief would need to put in time/caps into the outfit before he can steal your precious assault rifle. (Hence now thieves have a risk, since the outfit would drop upon death)

1. I suggested in another thread to make it depend on the player's reputation. Minimum should be 1 real time hour, for players with a neutral or better rep. Worse rep means longer penalty. This off course should not be limited to thieves.

3. That would mean thieves would always be recognizable which makes it a stupid suggestion. Also a simple suit will probably not be that expensive and therefore not a big loss.

I think PvP stealing is highly overrated. By stealing any npcs u make more in same time. PvP stealing is just for irritating the people. I agree with kilgore that it should be possible for normal chars to shoot the thief and take his stuff back.

I agree that stealing from npcs can be much more lucrative. PvP can be lucrative too. Irritating people at traders is done by thieves and none thieves alike, especially since traders can only talk to 1 player.
Many people use repair or whatever to scare people of a trader to trade for themselves. It has nothing to do with stealing.
Personally I leave players at traders alone, unless I tagged them red. However such behavior to me is an open invitation to try to steal from that player.

[Badger]

I don't think anything character-specific will work - if Thief1 has terrible reputation for an hour in NCR, you switch to Thief2 and so on. And if you're going to go to such great lengths (30 minutes unprotected) to stop people stealing more than once an hour, what's the point in keeping stealing in the first place?

I'm going to try and point discussion in another direction:

How does stealing make the game more enjoyable?

I don't think it does. It distracts people from the game itself, and makes something that should ordinarily be quite easy and routine (shopping), and turns it into a stupid minigame of 'try and avoid the guy running after you and make sure you don't get blocked in'. And I'm not sure it adds to the 'atmosphere' or the 'realism' of a wasteland either, especially when your stuff is safer dumped in a tent in the middle of the wasteland than it is in your pocket.

And yes, if they do this my next stop is to disable suicide bombers. Then PvP combat. Then regular combat. Then I ask the devs for your address so I can come to your house and make sure you are playing the game the way I want. Great call.

[Lexx]

All of the issues above can be fixed somehow, so don't need to scrap steal.. just need to rework it a bit.

Everything can be fixed in some kind of way. The question is *how* exactly.

[avv]

I'm glad you brought this up in such confident manner Badger. I can't but agree with your points, except the complete scrapping. Player to player steal could be just frozen until a harmonous mechanism is founded.

Thief Alt! - People make crafter alts, taxi alts... so what?

Guess the goal is to aim towards a game that doesn't support alts.

Know he's a thief? Tough shit. - It can be fixed easily. Some ways to fix it were already mentioned in other suggestions.

Actually a system that's fair towards the thief and the victim is rather hard to manufacture. A system that's mostly dependent on success dice roll favours a minmaxed thief build. System which is all about how players play (skillz) is fairer but more complicated to develop.

Thieves are a part of this game, as well as so-called PKs or suicide bombers. Okay, they are annoying, then what?

Instead of annoying they should be challenging. You can't challenge a thief in fair play, there are only retarded loophole methods such as suicide bursting him until he gets bored to return.