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[Kilgore]

The latest trick plant dynamite on someone, 2 possible outcomes, they don't notice and die, they do notice drop the bomb from their bags get shot by guards and die, either way you get their gear and nothing bad happens to you.

3rd they notice it and drop the bomb on worldmap and nothing happens. Btw it's very old.

[Trokanis]

3rd they notice it and drop the bomb on worldmap and nothing happens. Btw it's very old.

Yeah that works great when you're no where near an exit grid..

[Reginmund]

Yeah that works great when you're no where near an exit grid..

use trap skill on it and hope you still have enough hp so you aren't unconscious or dead.

[HertogJan]

It just comes down to majority vs minority, Majority get their lulz and caps/gear from griefing others, stealing/shop shooting/bombing/farming bluesuits.  Minority are the people who face the previous actions thus supplying the Majority.  Choices, join the troll/grief crowd, or hide away from 89% of the game that you're trying to test/play.  And as Avv said, all gain no pain, you think anyone's gonna want that to change?  The Majority is so frightened of having to work for what they get now so easily. 

Stealing is soo bad, not just because of the exploiters in hub, but people everywhere.  The latest trick plant dynamite on someone, 2 possible outcomes, they don't notice and die, they do notice drop the bomb from their bags get shot by guards and die, either way you get their gear and nothing bad happens to you. 

Sure there are 'ways' of avoiding thieves, (oh shit someones near me, I just was trading with Sha, damn it /click away. Try again, here they come /click away.)  Yeah that has been great game play so far...

If you want to get things easily, you sure as hell won't level a thief.
You simply create a crafter and supply the people wanting to buy stuff on the trade forum or you farm encounters.

Stealing isn't bad, it's part of the gameplay. Exploiters should be dealt with, no matter what they exploit.

Suggestions, better than just removing steal, have been made to deal with thieves around traders. Auto push, a 2nd steal counter which only applies to stealing from that victim, etc.
As for people walking to you near a trader, you even considered you're not the only one wanting to trade? Some will grief to scare you of, others just for the "fun" of it or because you killed them in the wasteland.
As for trading in NCR, don't complain about thieves or grievers when going there. At popular hours it's a certainty you will encounter them.

use trap skill on it and hope you still have enough hp so you aren't unconscious or dead.

Make sure you don't hit any protected pc or any npc when it explodes or you'll get a rep decrease.
Try dropping it in an empty room or something like that where guards and other npc can't see what you're doing.

[Imprezobus]

Yeah that works great when you're no where near an exit grid..

yeah because usually bombers stay far far away from main grid and the place where most of the players are : >

[avv]

You're always at risk of losing your loot.
You're talking about the risk of losing a highly detoriorated smg from an encounter?

What I meant was that when a player wants to rob another player with violence, he might lose his own gear if the victim manages to kill the robber. However in steal situation the thief doesn't risk any material because he is bluesuit, yet his victim still has the possibility to lose stuff. It doesn't matter if the thief has spent hours failing, it doesn't net him some sort of "steal points" that justify him to take items from players without risk.

That 1 succesful steal can make the day.

So it's just fun? The fun is too biased towards the thief.

The mehod is the same. You start by standing next to someone.
It's hard to deal with bursters when you've just been killed.

I meant that we can find methods to alter the features when it comes to suicide bursters, it's up to devs.
In addition, suicide bursters are much better enemies than thieves. At least you can protect yourself against them by having high hp and good armor, you can even shoot back when you're under attack. In addition suicide burster risks his gear, even if he has friend to loot stuff, he still risks the stuff.

No. I admit players pretend to use it for grieving.

So there is absolutely no case where player don't use steal to grief? Never ever? I met a player in ncr who literally chased the same people over and over with steal, got killed every now and then but always returned and kept chasing. Isn't that griefing?

[HertogJan]

What I meant was that when a player wants to rob another player with violence, he might lose his own gear if the victim manages to kill the robber. However in steal situation the thief doesn't risk any material because he is bluesuit, yet his victim still has the possibility to lose stuff. It doesn't matter if the thief has spent hours failing, it doesn't net him some sort of "steal points" that justify him to take items from players without risk.

Risking an encounter SMG with not even a full clip doesn't sound like much of a risk of losing gear to me.
You risk bad rep, your risk wasting time. Losing rep means you can get shot in encounters with that faction. My thief has 100 OD, but I know many haven't put points in OD. No result in hours means wasting time. It's a risk as you could use that time to do other things.

So it's just fun? The fun is too biased towards the thief.

It might just be satisfying finally having a successful steal.
[sarcasm]There are so many things fun in this game, leveling, alts, PK, hanging out with other people, ... Let's nerve it all.[/sarcasm]

I meant that we can find methods to alter the features when it comes to suicide bursters, it's up to devs.
In addition, suicide bursters are much better enemies than thieves. At least you can protect yourself against them by having high hp and good armor, you can even shoot back when you're under attack. In addition suicide burster risks his gear, even if he has friend to loot stuff, he still risks the stuff.

Tell that to the low level characters getting shot by bursters. Most characters used for trading aren't power builds. Often they're crafters. They don't have high HP.
Thieves can be avoided much more easily. If people armor up, the burster and looter become several bursters and a looter. As for shooting back, it requires you to close the trade windows. Meaning you already received 2 bursts point blank range. As said before, the only thing suicide bursters risk is an encounter gun and the ammo in it. Like thieves, they're not wearing armor, etc.

So there is absolutely no case where player don't use steal to grief? Never ever? I met a player in ncr who literally chased the same people over and over with steal, got killed every now and then but always returned and kept chasing. Isn't that griefing?

It's grieving, not stealing.
They're exploiting the fact that the animation is the same. Blame the grievers, not the thieves. They're 2 different things.

[Trokanis]

Sadly the current population, thieves and griefer thieves are pretty much the same.  I haven't bumped into a thief that didn't chase me around, haunt me at every vendor or in most cases try to blow me up!  Does stealing need to go? NO I never EVER said that, but somethings gotta change, beyond just the animation.  It is by FAR too much all gain no pain.  There is something just not right in a system where making a character who's sole purpose is to go somewhere and spend your time taking from others has little to no risk.  Congratulations your thief character has /godmode turned on, you can do anything that character was built for, over and over, and you might 1/50 lose something...

[HertogJan]

Sadly the current population, thieves and griefer thieves are pretty much the same.  I haven't bumped into a thief that didn't chase me around, haunt me at every vendor or in most cases try to blow me up!

Almost every single thief I have encountered doesn't do this. I hardly bump into a thieving griever. Only exception this session are Greens and Blackcaty.
Saying grievers and thieves are the same is short sighted bullshit.
To me it sounds like you spend too much time in NCR and not elsewhere.

[avv]

Risking an encounter SMG with not even a full clip doesn't sound like much of a risk of losing gear to me.

Nobody's talking about smg, you're just going to die when you meet anyone competent. Good example of player robbing would be going to reno with group of friends to hunt merchants and weaker players while wearing top tier stuff. Risk is some more dangerous group comes and kills you. 

You risk bad rep, your risk wasting time.

And what does the other player get from you risking time and rep? He can't sell or use the time and rep you wasted but you can use the equipment you stole from him.
If I shoot some robber, I get his equipment. What do I get from dead thief?

It might just be satisfying finally having a successful steal.
[sarcasm]There are so many things fun in this game, leveling, alts, PK, hanging out with other people, ... Let's nerve it all.[/sarcasm]

The point was that it's not fun towards the victim. Yeh it might be fun to shoot the thief once, but when he just comes back to harass again it starts to get old. If there was a way to trick thieves or fool them to expose themselves, it'd be more fun to the victim aswell since he would have a way to hit back.

Tell that to the low level characters getting shot by bursters. Most characters used for trading aren't power builds. Often they're crafters. They don't have high HP.

Yet they can build themselves stronger by getting more hp and better armor. You can't build yourself stronger against thief the same way.

Thieves can be avoided much more easily. If people armor up, the burster and looter become several bursters and a looter.

One player cannot split into several people.

As for shooting back, it requires you to close the trade windows. Meaning you already received 2 bursts point blank range. As said before, the only thing suicide bursters risk is an encounter gun and the ammo in it. Like thieves, they're not wearing armor, etc.

The burster might not able to pull 2nd burst because guards shoot him in the between. But nevertheless, I've had no problems vs suicide bursters due to wearing armor and having high hp. In the end, discussing the whole suicide burster issue isn't relevant to thievery because the whole phenomena is exploit. Thievery is feature.

It's grieving, not stealing.
They're exploiting the fact that the animation is the same. Blame the grievers, not the thieves. They're 2 different things.

Those players I saw were stealing. Like I said they died occasionally due to being caught, then they just returned again and kept doing the same thing. When they had too low rep they just sold some crap in the local hospital.

[Trokanis]

Ok nice personal attack, you must have a thief character.  No see I go to NCR, The Hub, Vault City, and to a lesser extent San Fran.  In all these places I and my buddy have been hounded by thieves, I have a large note pad next to my computer with one page FULL of names of thief/griefers.  I did NOT say that ALL thieves are griefers, but sadly too many are.  And as with most things it's time for the same thing that happens in life to happen to them, the bad eggs ruin it for everyone else.  Again as I stated in the previous post, I don't think stealing should be gone, but it needs to be reworked.  Too many people with /godmode on.

[Rascal]

No see I go to NCR, The Hub, Vault City, and to a lesser extent San Fran.  In all these places I and my buddy have been hounded by thieves, I have a large note pad next to my computer with one page FULL of names of thief/griefers.

bauahhaa seriously bro start taking some medicines

[Trokanis]

So ignoring the amount of thieves/griefers, and their locations, the system itself is broken.  This is what is being discussed, and the fact that a large portion of people use this broken system to their advantage.  Stealing is part of fallout life, but it's current execution isn't working.

[foonlinecurious]

Doesnt sound too bad if you are allowed to kill him after wards, maybe just make it so you can kill anyone who steals from you without guards attacking you period?
or make it harder for naked people to steal and get away with it, half of your issue it seems is the fact that your getting looted by someone who has nothing to lose.

if someones walking around naked, and all of a sudden has an assault rifle, it would be pretty obvious.

what would be really nice, is if you could tell the guard he stole from you.

[Keldorn]

Suggesting any restriction of freedom in this game is a HUGE nono.

The problems with 90 percent of this game lies in the fact that people can do what they want, when they want, and often as they want to with little or no consequences.

Again, there is a reason that most MMOS do not allow such chucklehead behavior because folks on the net cannot be trusted to have any type of self-control.  The main selling point of Fonline seems to be the complete opposite.  Hence while WoW has millions of players, Fonline had at some point 600 players max?