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[Rascal]

u all wanna turn fonline to WoW, quick smooth and easy to play with no risk. geeezas the beuty of this game is that it has a lot of threats and deangerous situation in it - its so falloutish - wasteland is harsh baby. The threat of being robbed is very important factor wich gives pleasure of playing this game.  One more time - U COULD PREVENT 99% of steal attempt BY SIMPLE USING UR BRAIN - if ur stupid and play like idot then u deserve to be robbed - amen.

nerfing nerfing nerfing its all i can hear here... :/

[Lexx]

One more time - U COULD PREVENT 99% of steal attempt BY SIMPLE USING UR BRAIN

You mean your mouse. *click, move two hex further*

[OskaRus]

Running from thief or suspicious person is not very wastelandish. Shooting him in head is. But it is possible only in unguarded towns now.

[Rascal]

watching ur back by setting trade window in right place, having 4 example cash in hand till u choose stuff u wanna buy, choosing right hours to do important deals etc. I hurt absolutely NO difficulties with thiefs and even when I finally meat some troll whos goal is only to disturb and not let me make a deal ( wich is rare like hell) then i can just go worldmap go back after 10 minutes and he is gone.

ur making a problem that really doesnt exists.

[avv]

ur making a problem that really doesnt exists.

Your tips don't capsize the rationales Badger gave. But if you're into tips, here's even better advice: don't go to safe towns. Problem solved, right?

[Rascal]

geezas yeah just make this game another wow clone. Now its uniqe but with ur "nerf everything" thinking its gona be crap soon.

[Sarakin]

5 happy players compared to 1 unhappy Rascal (thief) - which way should we go  ? I agree with avv, we need mechanism that favours player skill over minmaxing. And 2.5d will help too

watching ur back by setting trade window in right place

Done, still I have to move everytime he uses "steal".

having 4 example cash in hand till u choose stuff u wanna buy,

And then what ?

choosing right hours to do important deals

Theres almost always something interesting in shops, even waiting 10 mins can cost us

when I finally meat some troll whos goal is only to disturb and not let me make a deal ( wich is rare like hell) then i can just go worldmap go back after 10 minutes and he is gone.

No they are not. For me , it seems like they are camping city 24/7. Not to mention there is often more than one thief.

[Badger]

geeezas the beuty of this game is that it has a lot of threats and deangerous situation in it - its so falloutish - wasteland is harsh baby.

I think that it's incredibly far from Falloutish. Do you think Buster would allow a thief to chase a customer around his store? No. He'd get his Bozar wielding goons to take him out the first sign of trouble.

The whole 'It's like Fallout/It's nothing like Fallout' is wheeled out every gameplay discussion, and can be argued in either direction. You think the possibility of being pickpocketed in the NCR is very 'Fallout'. I think if a known thief can operate in the same area in an incredibly obvious way, in a lawful town, isn't 'Fallout' at all. I think the spectacle of a man in Vault PJs trying to use lockpick on me detracts from the 'Fallout' atmosphere far more than not being able to steal would. Discuss my points on whether or not they make for a better gameplay experience, not whether they adhere to our own respective definitions of Fallout.

I know how easy it is to dodge thieves. I'm saying that it's such a pointless waste of time you shouldn't have to.

[Eternauta]

I think Stealing in general is kinda useless. Why?

Well experienced players know how to deal with thieves, and only newbies tend to be robbed, but they also tend to have only poor gear in their inventory. This makes PvP Stealing kinda useless for getting items, and only useful if you want to troll another person.

Now about PvE Stealing, you can actually get some items form it... but with the current Reputation system, well you can just kill the NPC and loot his corpse, without worrying about the consequences.

In other words, Stealing is just for trolling.

[Rascal]

now stealing on players is very hard but possible - and that is why - when u succed u feel great (ofcoors im talking here about some good stuff not stealing 5lvl from his mauser)
I see u just dont realise how stealing could be an "art" in game, making "steal traps" by using map features. Stealing could give a lot of satisfactiona and fun - for example -->

I saw a guy who ride in into HUB with his highwayman (fully armed in ba lsw) he was wating 4 someone and talking with few players around. Honestly he acted very stupid -> lockpier/thief danger. So I run to him and quickly use steal on him - to my surprise he put his key on his inventory instead of his hand! (what would fully prevent any stealing attemp on it). Ultra fast drag&drop before he managed to step away (which automaticly "defuse" stealing window) - fast run to the car and hell yeah baby higwayman is mine. Inside the trunk there were tons of top tier stuff ba/lsw/drugs/lot of caps.  I quickly got back to hub to maine entrace and other players who whitnessed my trick cheered and congrats me that brilliant thief action. I play almost only PvP TC shit , used my thief for very short period but still that was one of the best if even not THE BEST moment in this game for me.

example above just shows that all fault was on that robbed player - he act unwise and i manage to punish his careless behavior.

And now we can go back to u players who are saying nerf thief -> by that u just gona make another part of this game DEAD. Fonline should be rich of different types of oportunities to have fun. U just wanna close one because u dont find interesting playing as a thief and whats is worst because ur too lazy/careless/stupid to take care about ur safety ingame(which is sooo fucking simple).

[Kilgore]

I fully agree with Rascal. Thieves present in more crowded locations (NCR, Hub) only add to the taste of gameplay, even if you are gonna waste some time avoiding them or you're gonna lose some stuff to them. Moreover, there were at least several people playing this game ONLY with their thief characters. Some of them quitted after changes that made stealing hard (without creating additional alts, of course) - for example, reputation drops. Now you want to scrap whole feature, because it's only "trolling". Grats.

Btw. my adventure with FOnline:2238 started pretty much as constant fight with thieves in Hub, in times when steal was way more effective than now. It was totally annoying when just after starting the game and wasting much time to get any items, some dude stole my pistol and bullets and offered it to me for some caps (lol), but seriously, without that, the game would be too easy. Especially that after I lvl'd up and I got his radio channel and was able to convince him via radio that I'm going to buy some valuable items he stole from other people, it was very easy to suicide kill him in guarded location while he was preparing to arrange "the deal". Some sort of revenge, eh?

[Gunduz]

I don't think it should be removed. It does need changes before it works well enough to not irritate players constantly and also make it a feasible skill.

But from what I've seen, stealing from NPCs isn't worth it unless you steal from encounters, and apparently it isn't supposed to be easy to steal from BoS encounters, f.e. Removing PvP stealing IMO would kill steal as a usable skill.

[Eternauta]

I do not see Rascal's anecdote as a very strong argument against this suggestion. Sure, his story was funny and cool, but I bet people can have funny anecdotes related to any game feature, bug or exploit. I personally had an amusing experience killing a player who was gridcamping, but that does not mean I want gridcampers not to be banned/punished.

Also, once again I repeat, it sure was a good story, but how many thief players use their skill like that? Most thieves' stories would be something like "that n00b raged after I stole his 9mm" or "lawl that guy had to just leave the shop cos I was trolling him so he couldn't trade".

As someone said before, PvP stealing should be cancelled at least until a better stealing system is made.

[GammaGM]

I made the suggestion to enable traps for thieves. 

http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=14295.0

Another alternative would be non-lethal weapons- tazers, shotguns with bag shot, needler with paralysis poison, sap, boxing gloves, (uuh... rocket launcher filled with pillows), paintgun that would mark their skin dayglo orange for about a week .  Say 30 minutes real time of getting benched might be appropriate.  If I were nasty, I'd suggest we cut a hand off reducing AG by 2.

Thieves say "I steal for the thrill."  Non-thieves say "thieves steal because they are trolling jerks who like to annoy others."  I say they are both right.  Trolling jerks who steal for the thrill of annoying others and getting free stuff.

Thieves do not steal in PVP towns.  Lest they die as they are no match for most builds in a fight and are in a bluesuit.

[Badger]

Being able to steal something that expensive in a few seconds when you weren't risking anything of equivalent value is a massively imbalanced gameplay mechanic.