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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Closed suggestions => Topic started by: Neuromancer on March 08, 2010, 09:00:02 am
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My vision of getting getting PA into 2238
Statements:
1) Power Armor would be very rare item ( limited amount of this type of armor about 1-10 )
2) Power Armors should be in rotation system*
3) Oryginally it could be obtained from brotherhood of steel only, to people who are in this faction.
Only highest rank members of BOS would obtain it ( done by quests, rank and karma ) Edit: According to this (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Brotherhood_of_Steel_ranks) only Paladins would be able to obtain it.
4)Once obtained, bos member needs to keep his rank high, acting like a bos paladin, not wandering freely PK raiding towns. Basically having high karma with bos faction.
5)Paladin would be killed and lost his Power Armor, the Brotherhood begins a quest to retrieve it ( all members who want get additional rank and karma can take part in it, and from now on they're looking for missing PA.
6)Let's assume sb ( not bos member ) picked up Power Armor - he can do whatever he wants with it, but he must remeber he's being tracked/hunted by bos members who received a quest of retrieving it.
7)When let's say 10 (max amount defined earlier) player controlled paladins have PA's and next member wants another, HQ Elders say that all PA's are in use at the moment and you need to wait or retrieve when one gets lost.
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*Rotation System:
1st - bos member gets it after lot of effort <quests/karma/retrieving> ( bringing one to the game would be hard )
2nd - then is killed by PK ( that's the easy part, but has drawback of being hunted )
3rd - then is retrieved by another bos member etc. etc. etc.
Retrieving PA quest:
You have to place detectors/trackers/radars in towns/vaults etc. that would inform Headquarters that PA is in this particular location.
Once PK ( with looted Power Armor ) gets into a city or some other location with detector a message to all members is sent ( kinda like Town Controll Anouncment ), then paladins/knights/journeymans should go there and get it back for all costs.
Once retrieved - member who retrieves it receive a reward, some karma, and his brotherhood rank raises ( when he becomes a paladin he receives his own PA )
Most interesting thing about it is that would be repeatable/active quest "fuelled" by greed of others :> ( I believe that most of players would want it )
This method will bring something additional things to do for everyone:
Players who are in BOS faction have something to do except of having a profession, so it would be first NPC driven faction which actually would live with it's own life.
Player Killers/Gang Members have something to fight for except of Town Control.
Edit: One REAL drawback my mate told me about:
When somebody loots a Power Armor, he surely will hide it in a tent/base just to show his friends etc. and being proud that he has it - he won't wander with it ( and we don't want another 10 PAs hidden ). We must remember that
I look for tips on that.
Solutions on that:
1)After 1 or 2 weeks since armor was lost HQ orders Scribes to invent personal trackers. So if someony gets 1 square close to place where missing PA is - the place becomes visible ( it would behave same way as it is with new event places like was with 2nd NCR above normal NCR in event some time ago )
2)Headquartes decides to destroy armor remotely ( they didn't do that because it was very expensive piece of technology )
Please post other solutions,quests for brotherhood ( so people would have some things to do before getting PA ), and opinions of course.
Optionally:
It could be connected with crafting so getting it would be even harder: eg. crafting PA for BOS faction would raise your karma with it, and if you would craft it for yourself it would cost massive ammount of resources [ and of course would be only crafted in BOS ( similar case as it is with 7.62 ammo in sierra )]
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main condition - you must be a member BoS 5 years from (ex)2238-2243,but not 3 minutes!!!(this rule for also Enclave)
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then raiders for example should get 10 gauss rifles for being loyal (and other factions should get something like this too), or else it would be imbalanced.
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@UP
Vedaras stop trolling or leave ( if you want to give raiders 10 gauss rifles then make a reason according to storyline and plot of fallout and then make your topic so we could discuss it there ) and seriously raiders are "just" raiders, they weren't a significant force in wasteland, whereas bos was considered strongest and most advanced technologically force in wasteland ( actually enklave was better than them )
@UP
Duorden could you give some details why this specific date 2243?
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Vedaras is right. If you dont ballance it, all players will become BOS members.
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@UP I don't think so. There will be only 10 (more or less) PA for players, so if there would be 100 players in Bos they would not get their armor anyway. And there is other idea about karma in suggestions forum, so pk players would not be able to join brotherhood. I don't think that bandits of wastelands would change their ways, when chances of getting PA are so small and cost much effort (quests, raids, loyalty).
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AFAIK BOS faction isn't about Town Controll - they have their own goals. They need to mantain high karma.
And if BOS would be strong it would be nice counterbalance to very strong player controlled factions, and a place wherer every notPK would fit in.
@DOWN
one strong gang is balance to other strong gang, not power armors for bos.
Basically there are 3 sides in fonline.
1) DA
2) NA
3) NonPK - people not interested in tc
Right now third group is overwhelmed by both DA and NA and they have no faction or even if they have they hide in caves.
This feature even adds balance when e.g. DA has all avalaible PA's since bos becomes automatically ally of overwhelmed side.
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one strong gang is balance to other strong gang, not power armors for bos.
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IMHO this is not a good idea. PA is advanced piece of armory but its meant as protection for BoS troops ergo it cannot be as unique as you described it above. I agree that its supposed to be only for elite warriors and high ranked officers but still regular scout groups of BoS soldiers are wearing it and I doubt they have officers among them on routine field operations. I would prefer that after one proves that he is worthy of such a huge investment that PA represents he will be able to start a chain-quest at which end he will obtain his personal PA. Such quest could be pretty much anything from farming materials to hunting down some BoS enemy/traitor. Also in most cases PA is worth more than life of a man who is in it so it should be locked in your locker in BoS armory. And such locker would get unlocked only when you are on duty and up to BoS field operation (by such locker you could imagine armory officer and if there is a PA assigned to your name, you can get one there). As you may noticed there are no one man PA scouts there because BoS nor Enclave wouldn't gamble with such equipment. Simply after one receives his PA he will be able to wear it only when he is told and where he is told, after that he will have to take it off and wait for another action. If you loose your armor during action you will have to obtain yourself a new one trough repeatable quest, but this quest should be significantly easier compared to the original one that makes PA accessible for you. Sure it requires A LOT of new stuff to be introduced to the faction system such as those faction driven operations, but personally I would like to wait for a good solution rather than settle for the bad one now. But maybe we could bypass big changes in faction system by simple feature: When group of BoS members get together as they are going for field op. then armory officer would supply them with PA if their group counts 4 or more members. Such player groups could follow orders from their NPC commander. So you go to officer "Barnaky" for your mission briefing, he orders your group to scout 4 click radius around the base, you go get your stuff at armory officer and you are ready to rock!
And for the freeforall PA it should exist, but this should be something unique and very rare in the wasteland. I mean even if you succeed in killing BoS paladin, you can't do it without damaging his armor. So if you manage to get your hands on dead soldiers PA it should be useless more or less. I don't know what PA is made of exactly, but I guess there are some gadgets inside, that make it running. So by killing PA guy and taking his armor you would get few usable parts. But to make it whole again it would require all parts together and insanely high science+armorer skills. Lets say that regular death (no explosives) will keep protective plates of the armor untouched so they would be easiest to obtain from damaged PA. After that there should be some inner electronic/motion thingy that would be rare to obtain from damaged PA. So if we make armor consists of 6 parts (helmet, torso, power source, motion stuff, electronic gadget, waste recycling system(?)) each with different drop chance then it would be hard enough to collect all 6 from dead soldiers. And collecting is not be enough, also putting it together should be connected to a quest or NPC who will help you with it. Also cooperation of best scientists and armorers of wastes should be necessary to put it all together. After all of this done you will get yourself your 1st wasteland PA. But such PA should be less efficient than original piece and some rust on it will never hurt ;).
Edit: If you are thinking about stealing PA or dieing on purpose in order to farm PA materials it could be solved by BoS karma. If you die too much, you will get demoted and you will loose access to your PA until you regain your trust. And if you steal PA then its best way how to get to BoS killonsight list and it could be used for new BoS members as quest to find you and kill you (loot your "dogtags" as proof of your dead or even better return PA back to BoS).
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IMHO this is not a good idea. PA is advanced piece
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it will never hurt ;).
Too many letters.
That's easier ;p
I hope BoS armor will be avaible for BoS-members who completed many many difficult quests and killed alot PKs, and then they can wear on/off armor only at bunker and they can't drop it, so noone except for them will get this armor. Also if they die in armor, they need to complete some annoying quests again to get it back.
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I like details ;D
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Ranks:
The Brotherhood of Steel is divided into different ranks: Initiates are trainees who are expected to perform well enough in the training process to be promoted to Senior Initiates, and later to Apprentices. After proving themselves, Apprentices are promoted to the rank of Journeyman Knights or Scribes. The next rank is Senior Knight/Scribe, and finally the leader of each of these orders is the Head Knight and the Head Scribe.
I think what Sius mentioned about scout groups they should use this (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Brotherhood_Armor)
Regular BOS patrol consists only of Knights which are using PA's and i think only knights and higher could use them.
I agree about the part of annoying quests to get it, and to get it back if lost.
Another thing about how it should look like on bos member and looted
BOS:
(http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/b/bc/Flagnarmor.gif)
Looted:
(http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/d/de/Tribal_PA_helmet.jpg)
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Once obtained by bos member he needs to keep his karma high, beeing a protector of wasteland, true paladin etc.
This might be a problem, because the Brotherhood is not how they are shown in Fallout 3. They are elitists and assholes who don't share in most cases. They are a bunch of techno freaks who worship technology and not holy protectors.
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This might be a problem, because the Brotherhood is not how they are shown in Fallout 3. They are elitists and assholes who don't share in most cases. They are a bunch of techno freaks who worship technology and not holy protectors.
Ooooops.
Ok that's true. I exaggerated with protectors of wasteland - they're basically neutral, just not attacking wastelanders without a reason ( and not defending them either ), but still if someone piss them off ( for example pk who kill their knight and steal his PA ), they will react. So karma thing can still be used when meaning high karma with bos.
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My vision of getting getting PA into 2238 is from other mmo game and it is as it follows:
There should be limited ammount of this type of armor ( about 1-10 in whole wasteland )
It could be obtained from brotherhood only, to people who are in this faction.
Only highest rank members of BOS would obtain it ( done by quests, rank, karma )
then raiders for example should get 10 gauss rifles for being loyal (and other factions should get something like this too), or else it would be imbalanced.
All in good time. Though not Gauss, of course and nothing to do with Karma.
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Vedaras is right. If you dont ballance it, all players will become BOS members.
No they won't because brotherhooders aren't allowed to do everything. If they kill innocents, they get kicked out. Raiders have the freedom to do whatever they want, but the tradeoff is that they get less free equipment from their faction.
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All in good time. Though not Gauss, of course and nothing to do with Karma.
heh power of such a good armor would be same as gauss rifle as such a good weapon, if you will give for example power armors for bos and shitty sniper rifles for raiders noone would want to be a raider. I mean mega advanced stuff has to be mega advanced stuff for all npc factions not for some :>
And furthermore there should be some things to ensure usage of this advanced stuff. You have it, it means you are in npc faction, then it means that you cant fight for town control, you cant be friend of human faction, and you cant drop stuff for the ones in human faction (you respawn without stuff, but your stuff vanishes with your dead body when you have it, and if you drop it while being alive it instantly vanishes ), and if for example you take power armor, and resign from npc faction while being high ranked member (and thus having permission to take good stuff) cause your ex-npc faction to hunt you hard, that would me like 50% encounters are your ex npc factions ecounters where they just fuck you for screwing with them (it should work like childkiller perk in f2 if you dont get idea). Whats more, hitting someone in tc fight for example 5 times, would cause you to be automatically kicked out of that faction, and have same negative sides like from resigning while being high ranked member. Then this system could work, otherwise it would be just an abuse for pvp players to get better stuff and this system should work as compensation for players of not taking part in town control fights.
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heh power of such a good armor would be same as gauss rifle as such a good weapon, if you will give for example power armors for bos and shitty sniper rifles for raiders noone would want to be a raider. I mean mega advanced stuff has to be mega advanced stuff for all npc factions not for some :>
Certain factions will be better at some aspects compared to others. Theres no need for each to have 1:1 equivalents.
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Certain factions will be better at some aspects compared to others. Theres no need for each to have 1:1 equivalents.
there is need to have things balanced, if all towns hunt you for being raider, and you are even hated by ncr (while according to f2 story bishop raiders worked for ncr to terrorize vault city, so that vc would join ncr after being weakened, and you get +1000 karma from bishop when joining raiders, so these must be the same f2 raiders), and now you want to make them into even more losers faction than they are now. Where would be roleplaying if from 50 people in npc factions, 30 will be bos, 18 vc, and 1 enclave 1 raider. Since these faction are enemies of each other, having one outnumbered would cause an easy crush on that faction by its opposing faction. Thats why people should get similar advantages compared to other npc factions. Only then things would make sense. You cant give gauss rifle for raiders, then give sniper perk or other heavy advantage, there are many ways to make things balanced try to use them :>
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@Vedaras:
You have a too simply idea of "balance" in my mind.
Following your mind would make FO like other standard game... with poor interest (if not any).
Balancing has to be considered at the whole game scale, not at the 1v1 one.
Having high-tech stuff in controled number can be a really nice thing, in particulary by a "RP" way of mentioned.
The major problem I see here is the alt abuse. As said before, Karma and time passed in the BOS are not enough.
PA is a too powerfull advantage to discourage alt-exploit.
I would be great to see more NPC faction influence, for sure.
But that would requiered some crafting restriction and new game mechanics (in economy side).
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@Vedaras:
You have a too simply idea of "balance" in my mind.
Following your mind would make FO like other standard game... with poor interest (if not any).
Balancing has to be considered at the whole game scale, not at the 1v1 one.
i am talking about balance that would make game interesting while playing in all npc factions not only in bos or any other. It has nothing to do about 1v1.
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Sure,
the question is about "what interest".
If PA can be "directly" counter (cf. Gauss) where is the interest ?
But having a limited "overpowered" force can be a great interest for the game dynamic... (above the owner one)
GM can maybe use this as a tool to generate some "events/dynamic quest" in this world, by the BOS order idea.
(Or later as a game mechanic)
[Notes that is not limited at BOS, and can be extend to other NPC factions]
Other factions can have other type of advantage.
Asymetric dont equal unbalanced.
As said in the original idea, they would be only a few PA ingame (I like the idea to have PA linked to mission used).
So the PA owners could be overnumbered by raider forces.
About exploit limitation,
maybe somethings that can be nice :
- PA can only be repaired by a npc at BOS base.
[to prevent PA capture]
- PA requiered regular maintenance with special item (remember the oil in the White Knight encounter ?)
[to prevent "free/personal" PA travel]
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First of all i dont think there will be much bos vs raiders encounters since bigger part of people sticks with human factions not npc. And even if raider with gauss rifle could meet bos member with pa and minigun, wouldnt it be fun to see them fight? Would it be more fun to see lets say raider with his reward fuckin sniper rifle doing 4 damage with aimed hit to head? And about what raider outnumbering you are talking? All people resign from raiders not join them, because there are too many disadvantages being them, and that is not the reason to make them even in worse condition comparing them to other npc factions.
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"Fun" is very subjectiv.
I think that "interest to play" is a better value for a game purpose.
Nobody stay in the raider faction actually.
For sure, there is any current interest to do. And thats near the same for all NPC faction...
Thats why we discuss here about some changes, isnt it ?
That said, I didnt reduce raiders to the NPC faction in my previous post.
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"Fun" is very subjectiv.
I think that "interest to play" is a better value for a game purpose.
Nobody stay in the raider faction actually.
For sure, there is any current interest to do. And thats near the same for all NPC faction...
Thats why we discuss here about some changes, isnt it ?
That said, I didnt reduce raiders to the NPC faction in my previous post.
i consider fun when you have same chances to be successful in different playing style, that means balance :>
Well vault city has medical terminal for example, towns love you and vc caravans with vc patrols defend you. So being in vc is good.
Now in raiders, everyone hates you and attack you, you can only craft bullets of weapons noone use, and now we even have a bug where khan raiders attack you in ecounters and if you attack them back you lose karma with them. And you want to make these differences between factions even bigger, do you think of that as fun? You are discussing about changes that would make things worse not better. I agree that you can get reward for being high ranked member (but i do not agree with 10 power armor limit, that is non-sense, everyone should have same ability to get that reward, not those who start playing earlier or plays more hours per day), but that reward system should be as much balanced as possible and if some factions will get bigger advantages than others, then these factions should be enclave and raiders not vc and bos since last 2 factions condition is worse ( still i think these advantages should be as even as possible).
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I'm all for PA because it'll make fights last longer and make the minigun less OP while increasing the usefulness of targeted shots.
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I'm all for PA because it'll make fights last longer and make the minigun less OP while increasing the usefulness of targeted shots.
psycho adds 30% to ressitance pa will add 0% more resistance from ba, just 4 threshold, in balance thing against miniguns it would do very little (even 2 toughness perks are adding more). And if you will be able to get your pa, you will be in bos faction not in human, so that balance against miniguns wont be so important to you neither. Removing perk accuracy from miniguns would give balance, since miniguns are the least not the most accurate weapons in war.
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Not everyone uses psycho as it requires you to take 4 other drugs just to be able to hit anything and its expensive and time consuming to produce.
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Not everyone uses psycho as it requires you to take 4 other drugs just to be able to hit anything and its expensive and time consuming to produce.
and pa must be very cheap...
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Imho PA/APA's and other armors like that should be acquireable only by:
a) Quests for people who RP and stuff like that
b) gathering+PvE to acquire very rare certaing parts + lvl 21 armorer. But it should take time and be so g'damn rare that bigger factions would have about 1-2 people in detoriated power armors until next one is created ;] Absolutely expensive piece of equipment. = It will encourage people to make other things instead of PvP, PvP, PvP, Craft, PvP, PvP. Raids for parts and other things. Personally - I would love to see it.
This way everyone will be happy I think. With coming 3d changes it will be easier because Enclave/BoS armors can have different models/textures so player-made-PA can look different too.
Some day I will post the whole idea with more points, not so "general". ;)
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Well vault city has medical terminal for example, towns love you and vc caravans with vc patrols defend you. So being in vc is good.
According to your way of thinking, we should remove medical terminal (because they would never be implemented because your whining about balance) from vc, patrols that defend vault citizens, and make equal karma to raiders. Then everything would be equal as you want, and nobody would play with npc controlled faction.
Your doing it from backside.
The thing is that developers must increase interest of these factions by adding something special to them ( for example bos PA's) , and then giving some balance features to raiders ( eg. raiding towns for high ammount of money, or taking tribute from raided towns etc. For god sake think of something other than: I give 10 items to them, so to get it balanced I need to give 10 items to others )
Imagine scale and two DIFFRENT cups on the sides of it. How can you mantain the balance when there is no water in these?
When there is nothing to take you simply can't, things have to be first implemented and then balanced.
I agree that you can get reward for being high ranked member (but i do not agree with 10 power armor limit, that is non-sense, everyone should have same ability to get that reward, not those who start playing earlier or plays more hours per day)
Actually there should be 10 pa's limit to mantain balance ( this is what you were talking about ? ) so bos faction would not be overpowered in comparison to other factions. And personally I think that player who plays longer and spends more of his time with the game, supporting one faction should have better reward than guy who isn't playing that much ( as in real life if you give more - you get more ), and 'bout entering faction earlier is not a problem because if you qualify to 10th place in rank/karma so next PA is for you, as I mentioned about PA rotation when sb looses it his rank/karma drops and there is place for another member.
... for example you take power armor, and resign from npc faction while being high ranked member (and thus having permission to take good stuff) cause your ex-npc faction to hunt you hard, that would me like 50% encounters are your ex npc factions ecounters where they just fuck you for screwing with them (it should work like childkiller perk in f2 if you dont get idea). Whats more, hitting someone in tc fight for example 5 times, would cause you to be automatically kicked out of that faction, and have same negative sides like from resigning while being high ranked member. Then this system could work
Yes these rules still apply.
If you quit you give your stuff back or get hunted ( another dynamic player quest ) . If you're a member of bos and hit some casual people your karma drops if it drop below defined lvl you get kicked. And npc driven faction aren't about TC so basically it would be breaking faction orders.
Remember bos faction is like army ( it consist of ex soldiers etc. ) if you brake orders you loose ranks and beeing degraded, if you follow orders you get promoted. Everything what people do in this faction would be dependant of gm's/dev's who are really contoling it.
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Updated - look first page (http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=2380.0) and give your opinions.
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Whole idea with limited numbers or even rotation system is imho bad. Simply make it almost impossible to get PA and that should be enough to keep it numbers in game low.
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Sorry but without rotation system it would be another TLA :(
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Just make PA use energy cells as long as you are wearing it (not just in combat or while you're getting hit).
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I didnt read through the topic, so forgive me if i reapeat someone.
IMO PA should not be usable by anyone. Imagine big gunners, or even small gunners with those, thats just OP. If you give PA to DPS fighters(BG, EW, SG) that would make them a well rounded fighter dealing high damage, AND have surivability. Instead of making PA extremely rare by limiting the total quantity, limit the users that can wear them.
My idea of implementing PA is to have a fighter that cant do much damage, but can rather take massive damage, so if a bad DPS fighter with good protection faces off a good damage dealer with lesser protection, they have the same changes, thus the system remains balanced. FO3 had a good idea, you needed a perk to be able to use PA. It was a free "perk" that everyone eventually got, but thats good since fo3 is a single-player game. In FOnline, this perk should be chooseable like other perks, so if one wants to use PA, they need to sacrifice a perk "slot". That alone should balance a bit, but the issue would remain: Everybody would gladly sacrifice any perk just to be able to use the armor instead. So the perk requirements would need to exclude those players that can be good damage dealers.
My opinion: You can argue about it all day long, but HtH players dont have, cant have, and never will have such damage output as BG/crit EW/crit SG builds. Giving PA to unarmed would be silly, but what about melee? Thats perfect imho. They could be perfect tanks up front, soaking up all the damage from HtH critters like deathclaws, while big gunners behind them deal damage to the enemy. No need to worry about burst damage, PA would withstand most of it (if the tank goes around the deathclaw so gunners have clear line of sight).
The perk requirements would look like: 8-10 Str, 6-10 Endurance, 120+% melee skill.
Ranged gunners would either sacrifice skill points in melee and be bad gunners, or just give up on PA alltogether, and be best at what they do: Deal serious damage. Not to mention having 8-10 Str would mean lower PE for example which is bad for them.
Give your thoughts about melee builds taking up the role of the tank, the perk requirements, but please...No comments such as "A melee dude killed me even tho i had a minigun." Current state of melee damage means nothing, weapons can be balanced accordingly, so if it turns out the melee+PA is OP, melee weapon damage could be lowered.
It would also eliminate complaints like BGs are costly to maintain because of ammo, and still a bluesuit with knife kills them, because PAs would be costly to maintain too.(Making a PA would be VERY expensive, and repairs for example, btw add repair npcs that repair equipment for caps)
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There are certain things that should not be in game.
It's bad enough they put Gauss pistols and Vindicators into special encounters (At least the ammo's hard to come by) but if Power armor was in game, balance would just be fucked.
On a side note, why NOT add in the gatling laser? It requires energy weapons and not big guns, not many people are willing to do that, it uses micro fusion cells as ammo, very hard to come by, and on top of that, almost ALL armors have huge laser resist. It would make a lot more people play energy weapons, and the combat balance would be a little better, instead of either being a big gunner, or a sniper.
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Tanks and dps?
Lets play world of post-nuclear-warcraft!
</sarcasm>
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Tanks and dps?
Lets play world of post-nuclear-warcraft!
</sarcasm>
Bad sarcasm..
Anarchy Online (AO) is a science fiction themed massive multiplayer online roleplaying game - Almost post-apocalyptic! :O
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchy_Online#Skill_system Hey, thats just like the SPECIAL system! :O
http://anarchyonline.wikia.com/wiki/Professions
O look at that, FOnline has the potental of becoming as sophisticated as that!
Enforcer(tank) - melee
Agent - crit SG
Soldier - BG
Im not saying copy them, or copy wow for that matter lol, even tho i still think crafters could make excellent engineers so they can be usefull and not just crafter alts, or the speech skilled beurocrat could recruit mercs for far less money to compensate their lack of combat skills, but lets face it. Either FOnline turns out to be a core MMORPG with the fallout setting, thats balanced so it can live a long life as a fallout MMORPG, or it stays a "true to heart single-player fallout 2" pvp game thats largely unbalanced thats fun for some time, but when you make your 5. SG, BG character with the same builds, and your 10. crafter alt with the same builds, or a more "universal" character that can also craft a bit and be a fighter, but again choose the same perks, the same weapon skill, and face off the same SG, BG build characters in pvp, it will die very quickly imo. I just dont want to see that happen anytime soon, because i see how much effort devs put into this project.
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you needed a perk to be able to use PA. It was a free "perk" that everyone eventually got, but thats good since fo3 is a single-player game. In FOnline, this perk should be chooseable like other perks, so if one wants to use PA, they need to sacrifice a perk "slot". That alone should balance a bit, but the issue would remain: Everybody would gladly sacrifice any perk just to be able to use the armor instead. So the perk requirements would need to exclude those players that can be good damage dealers.
My opinion: You can argue about it all day long, but HtH players dont have, cant have, and never will have such damage output as BG/crit EW/crit SG builds. Giving PA to unarmed would be silly, but what about melee? Thats perfect imho. They could be perfect tanks up front, soaking up all the damage from HtH critters like deathclaws, while big gunners behind them deal damage to the enemy. No need to worry about burst damage, PA would withstand most of it (if the tank goes around the deathclaw so gunners have clear line of sight).
The perk requirements would look like: 8-10 Str, 6-10 Endurance, 120+% melee skill.
What about nerfing pure PvP chars? ^_^
Perk requirement and description:
"BoS Knight Training"
Requirements: 15 lvl, Science 80%, Repair 80%, IN 7, CH 3, Be member of BoS (membership need only in time you pick this perk, then you can leave BoS, if you want).
"You obtained training from paladins of Brotherhood of Steel, <bla bla bla, many clever words>, now you can use power armors."
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The perk requirements would look like: 8-10 Str, 6-10 Endurance, 120+% melee skill.
What about nerfing pure PvP chars? ^_^
Perk requirement and description:
"BoS Knight Training"
Requirements: 15 lvl, Science 80%, Repair 80%, IN 7, CH 3, Be member of BoS (membership need only in time you pick this perk, then you can leave BoS, if you want).
"You obtained training from paladins of Brotherhood of Steel, <bla bla bla, many clever words>, now you can use power armors."
The PA requirements are retarded, why would you need melee? Also 8-10 str is stupid considering it adds 3 str to your char. It's mechanized to make you stronger, it's not like a medieval suit of armour. Also just claiming that melee is better than hth is based on absolutely nothing, if anything the mega power fist is better than the end game melee options. For ravenous's suggestion you're forcing a very strict build requirement by having unnecessary crafter skills in there. 80 science 80 repair is like half of your total points if you don't have them tagged, and neither skill is useful at those levels.
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For ravenous's suggestion you're forcing a very strict build requirement by having unnecessary crafter skills in there. 80 science 80 repair is like half of your total points if you don't have them tagged, and neither skill is useful at those levels.
That's it, to make "1 CH 5 IN able only to shoot and FA" a bit less usable, and make crafters/fighters to have advantage. But, really, "No, idea of getting PA's into fonline is completely wrong" is the right answer, I just wanted to show, how is it possible to implement PA to not totally make PvP character even stronger - make it possible only for crafters-builds!
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Crafter builds suck for a reason, making them armoured won't change that. It's like saying the only people allowed to drive Ferrari's have to be blind.
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Crafter builds suck for a reason, making them armoured won't change that. It's like saying the only people allowed to drive Ferrari's have to be blind.
Yes, crafters have less HP, and... less HP. So, armor will make them a bit more look like PvP chars. ;p
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At least Rat got the idea right: BGs cant have PA because thats OP!
Its not a single player game you cant have supersoldiers running around causing mayhem and havoc. BG+PA is as close to cheating as it can be, but still cant be considered it to be because: "the armor was laying on the ground i just picked it up, im innocent!"
Neither should crafters get it tho...
But Roachor, you didnt even bother reading through what i wrote i guess...
HtH = Unarmed and Melee. I said, HtH fighters(unarmed and melee) dont have, and should not have the damage of a ranged fighter, therefore -like crafters- could take on the role of a tank, still have a well balanced system.
The requirements have good reasons:
STR 8: BG characters take 7 STR to use big guns. Taking that extra 1 STR which equals 1 point of melee damage is a waste for them.
High END: Every fighter needs high endurance. But again, to prevent OTHER classes from using PA they need to invest extra points in endurance. High STR+END requirements prevents for example doctor builds that have PA, prevent crit builds because they cant have high luck, etc.
Melee 120? See above, or read my first post again.......
The idea is to PREVENT BGs from abusing the PA, not to buff up non-combat or HtH characters. But why NOT melee? Isnt the BoS made Super Sledge the weapon of choice for Star Paladin Cross for example(from fo3)?
PA gives STR. STR gives melee damage. I dont have anything else to say :S
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I dont understand, why are you making PA so poweful. Just compare it to Brotherhood armor - Normal DR is the same, DT is higher just by 4. Ok ,DT of laser and explosive is high, but plasma DR is even smaller than BA has. Sniper and laser rifles can bypass your armor anyway, or even instant-kill / KO you and BG bursts are roughly the same. Only players using rocket launchers might complain.
To sum up, I dont see any problems having PAs in game as long as they are limited somehow
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don't forget about +3 STR bounus! it is a lot!
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I think that PA shoul have simple req to wear: BoS faction member.
Also when someone not from BoS holding the PA, he should have about 5% chance to meet encounter - mad BoS patrol (anywhere on map).
We can't talk about PvP balance, cause this will be more like RP part of the game and player faction will not be able to use PA.
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I dont understand, why are you making PA so poweful. Just compare it to Brotherhood armor - Normal DR is the same, DT is higher just by 4. Ok ,DT of laser and explosive is high, but plasma DR is even smaller than BA has. Sniper and laser rifles can bypass your armor anyway, or even instant-kill / KO you and BG bursts are roughly the same. Only players using rocket launchers might complain.
To sum up, I dont see any problems having PAs in game as long as they are limited somehow
Indeed, the power of them isn't really the problem. It's just a complete atmosphere break to have every man and his dog running round in PA.
Dunno if I've said this in this thread before but eventually BoS members will have access to a limited number of them. But don't hold your breath :P
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I dont understand, why are you making PA so poweful. Just compare it to Brotherhood armor - Normal DR is the same, DT is higher just by 4. Ok ,DT of laser and explosive is high, but plasma DR is even smaller than BA has. Sniper and laser rifles can bypass your armor anyway, or even instant-kill / KO you and BG bursts are roughly the same. Only players using rocket launchers might complain.
To sum up, I dont see any problems having PAs in game as long as they are limited somehow
Hmm it doesnt seem too much yeah, its just memories of me clearing out the masters bunker in FO1 with hardened PA and very little effort. The only thing i had to worry about was crits that bypassed armor and knocked me down, other then that, it was way too easy.
Err, we do get hardened PA right? Because if we are talking about BA vs PA, and not the default CA vs PA, then we need to talk about BA vs hardened PA.
And APA MKII, now that IS OP.
Dunno it must be just me, but to me, PA+melee just seems such a perfect match like with all that extra STR it gives - all that extra melee damage, yeah it is like every other mmorpg out there, but most of them do follow this general rule(big dude.heavy armor.huge maces. lesser damage tho. small mages do more damage with spells.) because it works. So why change something that works.. :/
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don't forget about +3 STR bounus! it is a lot!
Yeah,good only for compensating its huge weight
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Yeah,good only for compensating its huge weight
No, it's PvP-builds with 1-2 STR, without weapon handling.
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No, it's PvP-builds with 1-2 STR, without weapon handling.
So you suggest making build with PA involved... interesting ::)
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So you suggest making build with PA involved... interesting ::)
Nope, atleast not for me, I don't like focused build on only one task: craft, scout, player-killing. Because I can't get fun when my char can do only one task, I still be play for fighter/crafter/scout, no matter that they will do.
I just wanted to say, that there're alot players, who don't want to waste points in CH, making snipers with 2-3 STR + weapon handling on 15th lvl, because lifegiver on 12th, is it normal for standart playing? Of couse no, this build oriented for 21st level at begin, and his the only task is: kill players, nothing more. So, of couse, they will start to make character builds suitable for PA, may be even with 1 STR (I don't know will they be able to pick up PA..) + Weapon Handling at the same time for BigGunners! But, who knows.
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Rat this isn't topic about builds or powerbuilds. And suggestion says that that easiest way of obtaining PA would be by joining faction and then doing quest and raising rank ( which won't be easy anyway )
The idea was:
If PK loots PA it would be almost impossible for him to mantain it, and forcing players to fight for it and recover it ( BOS faction ) so it would be similar to Town Control but for no faction/gang players.
Very important issue is to avoid hiding PA's in tents/bases etc.
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Rat this isn't topic about builds or powerbuilds. And suggestion says that that easiest way of obtaining PA would be by joining faction and then doing quest and raising rank ( which won't be easy anyway )
The idea was:
If PK loots PA it would be almost impossible for him to mantain it, and forcing players to fight for it and recover it ( BOS faction ) so it would be similar to Town Control but for no faction/gang players.
Very important issue is to avoid hiding PA's in tents/bases etc.
I'm not talking about any builds with PA, I just want to say, that PA is one of the ways of solvation powerbuilds. So PA-user is crafter/fighter, not pure fighter.
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people will just pk crafters to disassemble the PA then, they could have 99% dr and they'd still get owned.
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I think this is good idea, but PA should be obtainable by chain of quests from BoS, Simlar like repairing quest in FO 1, Like going to the glow for Fussion Battery (http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100111211900/fallout/images/5/57/Fusion_Battery.gif) and
Systolic Motivator(http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100220233335/fallout/images/2/22/FO1_Small_Piece_Of_Machinery.gif) from other dangerous location. And the with use of instructions you need to repair PA.
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Well imho PA can't be introduced until other factions have something to balance this. Even if the PA would be accessible only through really hard chain-quests and some rare materials would be also required its still and "epic" item from BoS faction. What does other factions offer? Profession trainers and thats all. This will result in BoS being overcrowded by gangs that will do anything to get their hands on such equipment and loners trying things just for the lulz. No faction should be joined because of professions nor items but you should decide who to join because of your ideology. If you are same asshole as BoS idiots then you will like being one of them, if you are one of the pure people then you will chose Enclave, if you are wastelands sheriff you go down to NCR an so on... But joining factions just to instantly profit from membership is bullshit.
If there should be something like membership benefits (easier access to profession trainers, chain-quests for stuff and such) then it should be time/honor/reputation based. If you join military faction as BoS then you are no one, you are some meatstick from wasteland that is there just to catch bullets instead of senior members and you should be threated that way. If you will work long and hard enough some senior member might notice you and offer you some extra quests and missions. When you done them too then you might start your career there still like a outsider but no longer unknown "soon gonna be dead" bastard. And after some freakin long time when you are like approved member of BoS then you should be able to get your first real bonuses. And PA should certainly not come like first one of them...
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Well imho PA can't be introduced until other factions have something to balance this. Even if the PA would be accessible only through really hard chain-quests and some rare materials would be also required its still and "epic" item from BoS faction. What does other factions offer? Profession trainers and thats all. This will result in BoS being overcrowded by gangs that will do anything to get their hands on such equipment and loners trying things just for the lulz. No faction should be joined because of professions nor items but you should decide who to join because of your ideology. If you are same asshole as BoS idiots then you will like being one of them, if you are one of the pure people then you will chose Enclave, if you are wastelands sheriff you go down to NCR an so on... But joining factions just to instantly profit from membership is bullshit.
If there should be something like membership benefits (easier access to profession trainers, chain-quests for stuff and such) then it should be time/honor/reputation based. If you join military faction as BoS then you are no one, you are some meatstick from wasteland that is there just to catch bullets instead of senior members and you should be threated that way. If you will work long and hard enough some senior member might notice you and offer you some extra quests and missions. When you done them too then you might start your career there still like a outsider but no longer unknown "soon gonna be dead" bastard. And after some freakin long time when you are like approved member of BoS then you should be able to get your first real bonuses. And PA should certainly not come like first one of them...
I agree on 100%
How about Power Armor Training Quest perk? If PK loots PA it will be impossible for him to use PA without proper training. What do you think?
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The PA could just use fuel over time, so people wouldn't be parading with them on every possible opportunity.
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The PA could just use fuel over time, so people wouldn't be parading with them on every possible opportunity.
But According to the wiki
"The armor usually carries enough fuel to last for one hundred years."
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That's true, but there is always a way out, f.e. "This suit's fuel circulation module is missing and although the armor is working, it will take a decent amount of fuel to maintain it's strength-boost function".
Basically, if you won't refuel it, it won't supply the +3 str bonus. That's my proposal.
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That's true, but there is always a way out, f.e. "This suit's fuel circulation module is missing and although the armor is working, it will take a decent amount of fuel to maintain it's strength-boost function".
Basically, if you won't refuel it, it won't supply the +3 str bonus. That's my proposal.
It the BoS will never use PA with that kind of issue, It's to dangerous for BoS becouse they have a limited man power and equipment so i think the perk will be enough.
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But According to the wiki
"The armor usually carries enough fuel to last for one hundred years."
so you are maybe unlucky and they handed you a PA which has been used for 99years and 364days:)
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hey all, throwing in two cents on this topic..
but, to me, adding power armor units to the game would not unbalence it, if you had the right control over its use.
for example, "omg, he's going to pwn us all with his uber PA! F*** this!" common thought in the minds of many who would be in other factions.
but, things to remember about the nature of the brotherhood of steel.
first they would not allow their tools of war to be used in random murdering, so the number of people that this mighty suit of armor could be used against would be very very small.
and the people who it would be allowed to be used against would be he worst of the worst of the waste landers who would some how threaten the brother hood of steel, which would only be the case if they stuck their noises in to the brotherhoods business, which would probally be them trying to steal the power armor.
second, if some one did some how steal the item, well i don't see why they couldnt enjoy it.. but the thing being, the brother hood should get the power to have its members have dection devices that could see it if it was stashed in some ones tent, so if some one stashed it they would leave their tent open to be looted by every BoS member around that could happen to be roaming around that area looking for it or not.
third, if, and i mean if, some one was able to get a suit, you would have to have a almost perfect record to be able to use it, which means, no shooting people, no raiding towns or bombing NCR or tax road blocking towns that don't have guards everywhere.
which basicly takes out all the fun things you can do if you like to bring suffering and death to your fellow waste landers, so you basicly would have to follow the brother hoods rules if you want the armor, which, to be blunt, they're all a bunch off hard arses.. so you won't get away with abusing it, unlike the raiders, which one of you suggested giving a 10 guss rifles to which could be used by anyone, you also have to remember that the BoS has no real reason to attack the raiders unless they attack them first.
so, in short.
1: you would be signing up to play a almost purely defensive role, with limited quests to find more tech to loot.
2: you would have to be gifted with enough self control to keep your dirty hands off the devils daughter to be able to get one in the first place.
3: you would not be able to do much with it, due to the fact that it would not work to take it apart, nor would it work to give it to another char due to the fact that it would be like placing a hell of a bounty on your own character.
4: it would no un-balence other factions due to the fact you should not be using it against them in the first place if you want to keep it.
5: it would not make people swarm the BoS due to the fact that they will learn pretty quickly that they cant use it for much even if they do get it, and even if they do get it they will have to be good little boys and girls and use it like they're told to by GMs, and perhaps higher ranking players..
6: as for who should be able to fix it, well you could add a req for a machine only found in the BoS main bunker that can help you hold it all up to fix it, or just allow anyone to fix it, but only a BoS member would have a chance of keeping it in good shape and keeping it at all.
7: also, if the "you can find it along with some one elses tent and all his goodies" thing doesnt stop people from stealing them, always remember that the BoS could place a bounty on a person like that that has one, not to mention no faction would want him to be in their as it would show their faction base to BoS members as well if he was stashing it there, and could even draw the anger of the BoS (which would be one of the few times they could use their other suits of armor) upon them, making them a target for a deadly force with power armor if one of their members had a stolen suit.
8: last but not least, if you make it so that only BoS members could fix the suits than if a player stashed one he could only use it for so long before it broke, meaning that he would have to get rid of it, which would than open up a slot for some one else in the BoS to get a suit and than every one would get on with life, not to mention if you used it to camp areas for easy player kills to often word would get around and others would want it, and so on and so on.
these are my suggestions based upon what others have said, hope you kept reading untill the end heh.
cheers all.
-Ulrek-
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How about make them only obtainable by killing brotherhood patrols, but if you have one in your possession you get attacked by BOS wherever you go. Kinda like the mission in fallout tactics but in reverse.
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This might be a problem, because the Brotherhood is not how they are shown in Fallout 3. They are elitists and assholes who don't share in most cases. They are a bunch of techno freaks who worship technology and not holy protectors.
I noticed this and just wanted to say that:
I didn't play fallout 3, only the good old 1 and 2 but in my opinion your description of them is rather harsh. I'd prefer to imagine them as chivalrous knights.
Doesn't mean they're high charisma good though. But still they have honor and go along their codex.
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I thought it was possible to kill a BoS member and loot the armor off of them.
Edit: A funny idea is to make the power armor a BoS only quest, but the Fusion Cells needed to power it require being part of the Enclave.
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I noticed this and just wanted to say that:
I didn't play fallout 3, only the good old 1 and 2 but in my opinion your description of them is rather harsh. I'd prefer to imagine them as chivalrous knights.
Doesn't mean they're high charisma good though. But still they have honor and go along their codex.
Their function is to horde technology and they couldn't care less about local populations.
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they do care about local populations- they are a source of new recruits to them, remember!
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they do care about local populations- they are a source of new recruits to them, remember!
They take the able bodied for cannon fodder and leave the rest to die.
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They take the able bodied for cannon fodder and leave the rest to die.
i am pretty sure thats fallout tactics lore.
as far as the BoS and their standing in FOnline that i know of.
they're mostly neutral and seek to fight to gain more shiny bits to stock pile, not unlike our local crafters.
-Ulrek-
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I have an idea.
- 10 PA per game,
- rotation system (if PA is stored in a box or in a character not used for 1 day - it disappears)
- once worn you can kill the person wearing it without karma loss
- 1 PA per faction
- PA deteriorates FAST and cant be repaired, once broken it disappears
- You obtain PA by quest (PvE in some vault full of BOS (less armored maybe with combat shotguns?)/Deathclaws)
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I liked the notification system that the person in PA was seen in the town.
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You would never know if there are 10 PA in the game unless you check 10 caves.
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"You would never know if there are 10 PA in the game unless you check 10 caves."
could you elaborate on that?
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"You would never know if there are 10 PA in the game unless you check 10 caves."
could you elaborate on that?
Yes. My point is to make it a repeatable quest, making it an aim for PvE "raids".
1) 10 PA 10 caves visible on the map after acceptance of the quest.
2) The difficulty should be adjusted to attract a bigger group of people (6?). Obvious medic is obvious.
3) The group would need to get the quest like when buying a base (leader speaks)
4) 10 caves, as the PA's obtained in such way deterriorate FAST or disappear after 1 day of non-use and theres no global information on PAs worn by players at the moment. In this way it would not be sure that after reaching the end of the vault, cave w/e that there will be some reward.
5) The case should there or should there not be a PA at the end of the vault, cave should be solved by pinning/appointing 1 PA to particular cave, so if a particular PA is taken/used, in its cave there wont be a thing
I would also give a restriction to 2 PA's in a town (the 3rd, 4th, 5th would dissapear, 2 first remain) to prevent abuse in PvP gang fights :] (or as the Necromancer stressed they should be for the BOS, so based on karma I guess - but you can fight in a gang with good karma thats why Im against Necromancer suggestion and make it accessible for all)
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Hmm about PA i agreed but there would be only 10 - 20 in all game and they can't be replaced. BTW there can be other armors not needed to pvp like Robes or hardened leather armor (with using fire gecko pelts) or rangers armor or other armors.
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Hmm about PA i agreed but there would be only 10 - 20 in all game and they can't be replaced. BTW there can be other armors not needed to pvp like Robes or hardened leather armor (with using fire gecko pelts) or rangers armor or other armors.
Yes I agree, the key should be items that COULDNT BE REPAIRED, and it would be good if they were robes or maybe other armors changing your appearance if thats possible (e.g. like holy man has). The thing is not to introduce unbalance causing elements like some overpowered weapons for the use of gang fights.
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personally don't like this idea.
it makes 0% sense from a in character stand point, not to mention this "PA limit in towns" would be just out right crazy, it makes even less sense from the before mentioned stand point.
i am for some level of balence, but i think the flaw in this is that if there was information about power armor hidden that is so easy to get you can just take a quest from a guy, than the brotherhood of steel would have swarmed it long ago and looted it all.
basicly, if you want the power armor, make it a item given only to BoS members of high rank and good standing. and put safe guards in place to make sure it never is given away as a "gift" to their friends.
-Ulrek-
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or we could add a perk called power armour training, of course this would be earned when you get a high rank in the brotherhod of steel, and you can only take out your power armour when you have that perk (1 PA per BOS member, and it has to be handed in for maintenance every week(real time, not ingame time, would be f*cking ridiculous...)), to get the power armour training you would have to obviously be a member of the BOS, and if a ranking system is introduced you'd only be given the training at the knight commander rank, but to rank up you'd need to do different missions, all from clearing raiders from a town to rediscovering some ancient tech, all the way to salvaging an alien starship power core.
Edit: I'm pretty much basing the ranking system on the midwestern one, since that is the most detailed one.
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Brotherhood_of_Steel_ranks (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Brotherhood_of_Steel_ranks)
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Ulrek & Gordulan - Everyone would be in BoS. Anyway, it would create some serious unbalance, just think what would BoS top 10 members do - lets say they're in 1 faction :D THEY WOULD OWN? My idea was implemented so as not to create unbalance.
EDIT: Gordulan - I like your idea, just the number of PAs (or just skin of it - with reduced resistances like CA) should be a marker for good BoS members. That would be nice. Anyway, what would be the limit? - fixed amount of PAs or above some karma lvl / raider kill per week?
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"@ Kraskish" the thing is, they're not allowed to "pwn" people, only people they're given a very good reason to kill, its not up to the random "oh hey, lets shoot that guy" whims of the player really.
second thing is, the whole "killing raiders" thing was a fallout tactics thing, think of this as if fallout tactics doesnt exist, as far as i know, the BoS in FOnline is based 100% off the one in fallout 1/2, meaning they didn't go out killing things and trying to get cave men wanna-bes for cannon fodder, they just shot them or told them to leave the area.
if anything, in the "lore" of the BoS, giving a big thing of micro cells to the head tech guy would probally get you a suit of power armor faster than getting mixed up with the waste land scum every day.
this being the point i am trying to stress all along, you're not allowed to "pwn" people, show it off, or other wise abuse the suit of power armor, so if you're getting blown up by people in power armor, you asked for it.
as for the power armor training thing, yes, i'd vote for that, not every monkey can wear a suit of highly powerful battle armor. not to mention even beable to use it fully and turn it on.
-Ulrek-
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Anotehr Suggestion : You got 10 power armors in game that one got fuel for from 2 to 12 hours in real life . You can add to them 200 MCF to work it for 4 - 10 hours and when it is exploated it cannot be refueld and it have stats like metal armor mk1 or mk2 :)
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As I said, being an initiate would pretty much send you out on excersize drills, more or less taking out a small base of raiders because they have some serious tech on their side, also some initiate task could be to kill a wanamingo/deathclaw for analysing it and such shit, maybe to be able to make further improvements to the armour the BOS has. With the 3D models the BOS crest could be displayed on the member's armour, as well as pyjamas, however, killing someone without a reason (ex of just kill: shit, that guy is carrying an LSW, the armoury could use one more of those) (ex of unjust kill "pwnage" : hey, that's a guy with a 10mm pistol, his ammo could be useful, i'll just blast him with my minigun, several times) would end up with you being demoted back to the squire rank, thus removing the perk, and the NPCs in the bunker telling you to put your PA in "The Box", in other words, you lose you PA FOREVER if you do dipshit stuff.
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@ Tomowolf It would be highl exploitable by large factions
@ gordulan - I like the idea, except for the PA losing forever thing. How would the sytem differentiate the random killing from the PK defence? For the thing you mentioned we would need some better name colorising like bad karma - red nick, good - green but thats reserved for factions so ...
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Hmm wouldn't it be fun if you had to pay for your destroyed/lost armor :P
Like in F2, the enclave sergeant says that you will have to pay for it if you loose it ;)
To further explain: Lets say that you finally got to the point where you are given the quest for a power armor and the power armor training (if that is implemented), then lets say that you lose your little armor, either by deteriation or someone killing you and stealing it. When that happens you will be cast down a few ranks maybe and if you EVER! want to wear a PA again you must pay for the old one :D And make it a frikkin expensive, like 400k atleast >.< after you payed you may wear one again :D but if you lose it again you must pay for it once again. (don't know how to make NPC notice if its stolen, if its in your tent/inventory it is ok but if someone else is wearing/stashing it then it will count as stolen).
Just a thought :P
//oh and there should be a repairman inside of the brotherhood complex that can repair the PA for a fair amount of caps, but make it unrepairable by normal people ;)
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As big gangs usually swim in money then they'd be the only people how can afford this.
So, buying this PA, even if it's 400k won't really work.
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As big gangs usually swim in money then they'd be the only people how can afford this.
So, buying this PA, even if it's 400k won't really work.
bah increase it to 5 million then! (I don't know the relation between currencies - USD/caps but a tank costs like 60 million $ + and a PA is probably very expensive aswell ;))
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No PA allowed ! ;)
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or better ideea:power armor need stupid amounts of resourses,loke:100 good metal parts;100 High quality alloys 200 metal parts and 200 alloys and 100 comp parts
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or better ideea:power armor need stupid amounts of resourses,loke:100 good metal parts;100 High quality alloys 200 metal parts and 200 alloys and 100 comp parts
& @bikkebakke - Youre doing it wrong :D. Thats not the way, think of loners a/or some not so wealthy factions. I think the best way to get and maintain the power armor would be to do something like gordulan said - to keep the lvl of killed raiders per week / karma so it would not favour only pvp or wealthy factions and would be available for everyone to try
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nah, i never said that, what i suggested was to join the BOS, do PvE missions (call em quests if you like) with other people of your ranking, when you reach the squire rank you get a small dorm (1 container, 1 bed, 1 Records Computer where you can write log entries, pretty much like a holodisk), as you progress through the ranks you gain more and more rep with BOS, and ar the "Armourer/Weaponsmaster/Keeper of the Armoury (aka "the man")" you can gain "BOS credits", since caps are of no real value to the BOS, and never have been really (except for fallout f*cking 3) the credits could do as a currency in the BOS, to gain these creds you submit tech to the "man" ranging from electronic parts to gauss rifles and vindicators , each item would give you a certain ammount of creds, but never more than the item's worth in caps, and there is a fixed limit a person can "donate" to the armoury.
Note: I'm basing these values per rank in the BOS, therefore once you have reached the highest rank you'll be able to submit a fuckload of creds, if you want to.
PS: I'm Bored
Electronic part: 0.01 creds/each Limit: 2000, so 20 creds max from this
Laser Pistol: 1 cred/each Limit: 40
Laser Rifle/Ext Cap.: 5 creds/each Limit: 20
And I shall update this Items/Creds list if you want me to elaborate.
PA: Cost: 1k creds, 1st one is free, you have to give it into maintenance every reallife weak, if you lose it then it's just too bad for you since you'll be lvl 21 by the time you can promote to Knight-Commander.
BOS CA: 150 Creds
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heh, thats a pretty neat idea gordulan, but there should still be a limit of how many PA:s there is available right?
//about turning things in for BoS creds, can't mission give out BoS creds aswell or you could find things of interest at quests, like you are doing a mission and you find a BoS holodisk or something that you can turn in for a small amount of creds.
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as I said, you should lose the ability to wear power armour once you leave the BOS, and you shouldn't be able to be added to any base except a bunker,and since there will not be a need for more PA than necessary because ONLY high ranking BOS members can wear it, the worst one can expect form the "raider" factions would be that the dismantling the armour, if it is implemented like this you are forced to not be a dick, making everyone who aren't dicks able to wear PA, there will still be player-driven factions, but they will have to do without PA, the logic is flawless.
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Maybe instead, every NPC faction would have it's own territory, that players could use their unique equipment on. FE. a box of 5x5 on the world map around the Lost Hills bunker would be the territory on which BOS factioned players could use their PA on(naturally, power armor would be the unique armor for BoS - the equivalent for Raiders would be a gun, fe. H&K G11E). After leaving such an area of a faction's influence, leaving a faction or the player not being of sufficient rank, the item would be reduced to some kind of unusable junk(like, a broken Gauss Rifle) only to become repaired for a small amount of cash inside BoS.
That would encourage players of an NPC faction to patrol their territory, in hope that the unique weaponry they own might be just the edge over unsuspecting players that decided to take a more dangerous route through a faction's territory. This, yet again opens many possibilities - fe. NPC factions fighting for World Map squares to expand their land, so players can benefit more from one faction at a certain time than the other, battles for the hideouts of said factions, a new source of aquiring high-level items, perhaps even balancing out the problem with sources of income(Currently, there are only two good ways of getting good money: crafting and town control).
Oh, I forgot to add. Players in the same NPC faction would act as a team, therefore, after killing a faction-mate the victim would have go to a, let's say terminal to forgive that person, since as we know, mistakes occur.
Those are just my three cents.
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or,to be weared only for the BoS.Enclave faction,and if worn by other to bliw up
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nope, you should need the perk of PA tarining, however, when you resign the terminal wipes you memory from that knowledge.
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Power armors are overpowered so if you gave PA to BoS you should give gauss rifle to bandits (at high rank) or/ and to vault city some doctor things, to Enclave |YK pulse rifle and now game will be like killkillkill :) So idea with PA is god but it is to dificult to implement it without any problems like : some big faction will get all pa and game will be f*cked up so if you gave it it must be refueld it must have bad restistance for sth and others (like plasma or electricity or explosions)
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nope, since the whole assholy shit will be gone if you want one, and as I said, the perk (PA training) is removed once you leave the faction, therefore all the big gangs will not be able to wear PA, and since this is a beta, one could test this and then maybe give raiders the H&K G11. The enclave should be able to get PA training as well, but will have to take the actual armour from the corpse of a BOS member, personally speaking the Pulse Rifle is totally overpowered when it comes to using it on players...
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Power armors are overpowered so if you gave PA to BoS you should give gauss rifle to bandits (at high rank) or/ and to vault city some doctor things, to Enclave |YK pulse rifle and now game will be like killkillkill :) So idea with PA is god but it is to dificult to implement it without any problems like : some big faction will get all pa and game will be f*cked up so if you gave it it must be refueld it must have bad restistance for sth and others (like plasma or electricity or explosions)
gordulans idea is perfect as for the mechanics. I dont really think raiders had gauss riffles at all. As for the very PA I would lower its stats to CA+MA mk2 so powerful enough.
Tomowolf you havent read to the end. One would be able to wear it if he/she had a training/perk for it.
And dismantling PA should give lets say 10 good metal parts? That would be a good bait for the opposite factions.
And Gordulan, even lvl 21 dies, so once someone would lose PA youll get a new one when you get the next rank? Hmm, that would be too short-lived to fight for. I think you could do some "PA retrieval quest" (monsters kill etc) so you can get it back. Sounds nice
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as I said, you get BOS creds for doing stuff for em and submitting tech, and in the end maybe 1k BOS creds for a brand new PA would be a bit too much, maybe 500 creds for a brand new one, they can use the keycard inventory icon, to represent a credit card, however, the weight of it is 0 and you get "funds" added to it as you go along (just like caps, but for BOS). And By the time you reach knight commander rank you could afford several of em, however, you need to give it in for a 10 minute maintenance every week, so, if you don't submit your armour for that maintenance you have to wait one more week to get it repaired by let's say 40% deterioration, adding on that, you can never get a sucessful maintenance for a PA no matter your repair skill, this will help to a certain extent against having a repair alt.
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as I said, you get BOS creds for doing stuff for em and submitting tech, and in the end maybe 1k BOS creds for a brand new PA would be a bit too much, maybe 500 creds for a brand new one, they can use the keycard inventory icon, to represent a credit card, however, the weight of it is 0 and you get "funds" added to it as you go along (just like caps, but for BOS). And By the time you reach knight commander rank you could afford several of em, however, you need to give it in for a 10 minute maintenance every week, so, if you don't submit your armour for that maintenance you have to wait one more week to get it repaired by let's say 40% deterioration, adding on that, you can never get a sucessful maintenance for a PA no matter your repair skill, this will help to a certain extent against having a repair alt.
YES. You should gather your posts and make a poll :p
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What about a perk like in F3. You know the "Power Armor Training" perk that you can only learn from the BOS. That would limit people from killing a BOS and stealing his armor. Perhaps make a craft for someone to make the armor wearable without PA training but this would drop the AC dramatically and maybe make it require ECell charges to keep it running.
I do enjoy the hunt and gather quest for BOS members, that would be a great way to keep PA from the general wasteland public. Maybe make it an NPC thing to, a random encounter for a BOS NPC group to find you with stolen armor, like a 2% chance, I don't know, just a suggestion.
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and i guess it's time to move my suggestions here to another topic, to start on a new page, because all you guys see is the first page and then comment on the first post (bloody tourists)
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hey, what about adding Power armor traini...
**Bikkebakke receives bitchslap from gordulan**
going to check out your new suggestion ;)
here for those who doesn't know how to look for it :P (http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=4527.0)
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nah, i never said that, what i suggested was to join the BOS, do PvE missions (call em quests if you like) with other people of your ranking, when you reach the squire rank you get a small dorm (1 container, 1 bed, 1 Records Computer where you can write log entries, pretty much like a holodisk), as you progress through the ranks you gain more and more rep with BOS, and ar the "Armourer/Weaponsmaster/Keeper of the Armoury (aka "the man")" you can gain "BOS credits", since caps are of no real value to the BOS, and never have been really (except for fallout f*cking 3) the credits could do as a currency in the BOS, to gain these creds you submit tech to the "man" ranging from electronic parts to gauss rifles and vindicators , each item would give you a certain ammount of creds, but never more than the item's worth in caps, and there is a fixed limit a person can "donate" to the armoury.
This is roughly how it will (eventually) work. Not just for BoS but all the factions. Some lucky souls - the ones that helped me manually write the crafting stuff before the wipe - even have a spreadsheet with a list of the kind of items each faction/rank will have available.
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I read the all topic and what i need to say:
We can add PA training perk
Implement somehow PA
To not be abused from Bos or Enclave give somthing to other fatcions
PA cannot be crafted. You can obtain by one character with pa training You cannot trade it or take off :)
Character must have big reapair and science (or lvl) And there wont be powerbuilds that are only to shooting (tatatatatatatatatatatatatatata) with Avenger :)
Make another ideas !!!
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did you even read my thread at all, and i'm glad that it will work in pretty much that way, it's weird, since iv'e had an idea like that for the BOS since the wipe...
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got an ideea,PA and APA will be dreaseble only for the BoS/Enclave members,and if weared by other people,to explode,or kill the people that is not af BoS/Enclave faction via lethal injecton or something