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Yes

27 (25.7%)

Yes, but I would change some things

33 (31.4%)

I don't care

1 (1%)

No, but under some circumstances ...

10 (9.5%)

No, idea of getting PA's into fonline is completely wrong

34 (32.4%)

Total Members Voted: 105

[avv]

Vedaras is right. If you dont ballance it, all players will become BOS members.

No they won't because brotherhooders aren't allowed to do everything. If they kill innocents, they get kicked out. Raiders have the freedom to do whatever they want, but the tradeoff is that they get less free equipment from their faction.

[vedaras]

All in good time. Though not Gauss, of course and nothing to do with Karma.

heh power of such a good armor would be same as gauss rifle as such a good weapon, if you will give for example power armors for bos and shitty sniper rifles for raiders noone would want to be a raider. I mean mega advanced stuff has to be mega advanced stuff for all npc factions not for some :>

And furthermore there should be some things to ensure usage of this advanced stuff. You have it, it means you are in npc faction, then it means that you cant fight for town control, you cant be friend of human faction, and you cant drop stuff for the ones in human faction (you respawn without stuff, but your stuff vanishes with your dead body when you have it, and if you drop it while being alive it instantly vanishes ), and if for example you take power armor, and resign from npc faction while being high ranked member (and thus having permission to take good stuff) cause your ex-npc faction to hunt you hard, that would me like 50% encounters are your ex npc factions ecounters where they just fuck you for screwing with them (it should work like childkiller perk in f2 if you dont get idea). Whats more, hitting someone in tc fight for example 5 times, would cause you to be automatically kicked out of that faction, and have same negative sides like from resigning while being high ranked member. Then this system could work, otherwise it would be just an abuse for pvp players to get better stuff and this system should work as compensation for players of not taking part in town control fights.

[Solar]

heh power of such a good armor would be same as gauss rifle as such a good weapon, if you will give for example power armors for bos and shitty sniper rifles for raiders noone would want to be a raider. I mean mega advanced stuff has to be mega advanced stuff for all npc factions not for some :>

Certain factions will be better at some aspects compared to others. Theres no need for each to have 1:1 equivalents.

[vedaras]

Certain factions will be better at some aspects compared to others. Theres no need for each to have 1:1 equivalents.

there is need to have things balanced, if all towns hunt you for being raider, and you are even hated by ncr (while according to f2 story bishop raiders worked for ncr to terrorize vault city, so that vc would join ncr after being weakened, and you get +1000 karma from bishop when joining raiders, so these must be the same f2 raiders), and now you want to make them into even more losers faction than they are now. Where would be roleplaying if from 50 people in npc factions, 30 will be bos, 18 vc, and 1 enclave 1 raider.  Since these faction are enemies of each other, having one outnumbered would cause an easy crush on that faction by its opposing faction. Thats why people should get similar advantages compared to other npc factions. Only then things would make sense. You cant give gauss rifle for raiders, then give sniper perk or other heavy advantage, there are many ways to make things balanced try to use them :>

[Amrok]

@Vedaras:
You have a too simply idea of "balance" in my mind.
Following your mind would make FO like other standard game... with poor interest (if not any).
Balancing has to be considered at the whole game scale, not at the 1v1 one.

Having high-tech stuff in controled number can be a really nice thing, in particulary by a "RP" way of mentioned.
The major problem I see here is the alt abuse. As said before, Karma and time passed in the BOS are not enough.
PA is a too powerfull advantage to discourage alt-exploit.

I would be great to see more NPC faction influence, for sure.
But that would requiered some crafting restriction and new game mechanics (in economy side).

[vedaras]

@Vedaras:
You have a too simply idea of "balance" in my mind.
Following your mind would make FO like other standard game... with poor interest (if not any).
Balancing has to be considered at the whole game scale, not at the 1v1 one.

i am talking about balance that would make game interesting while playing in all npc factions not only in bos or any other. It has nothing to do about 1v1.

[Amrok]

Sure,
the question is about "what interest".
If PA can be "directly" counter (cf. Gauss) where is the interest ?
But having a limited "overpowered" force can be a great interest for the game dynamic... (above the owner one)
GM can maybe use this as a tool to generate some "events/dynamic quest" in this world, by the BOS order idea.
(Or later as a game mechanic)
[Notes that is not limited at BOS, and can be extend to other NPC factions]
Other factions can have other type of advantage.

Asymetric dont equal unbalanced.
As said in the original idea, they would be only a few PA ingame (I like the idea to have PA linked to mission used).
So the PA owners could be overnumbered by raider forces.

About exploit limitation,
maybe somethings that can be nice :
- PA can only be repaired by a npc at BOS base.
[to prevent PA capture]
- PA requiered regular maintenance with special item (remember the oil in the White Knight encounter ?)
[to prevent "free/personal" PA travel]

[vedaras]

First of all i dont think there will be much bos vs raiders encounters since bigger part of people sticks with human factions not npc. And even if raider with gauss rifle could meet bos member with pa and minigun, wouldnt it be fun to see them fight? Would it be more fun to see lets say raider with his reward fuckin sniper rifle doing 4 damage with aimed hit to head? And about what raider outnumbering you are talking? All people resign from raiders not join them, because there are too many disadvantages being them, and that is not the reason to make them even in worse condition comparing them to other npc factions.

[Amrok]

"Fun" is very subjectiv.
I think that "interest to play" is a better value for a game purpose.

Nobody stay in the raider faction actually.
For sure, there is any current interest to do. And thats near the same for all NPC faction...
Thats why we discuss here about some changes, isnt it ?

That said, I didnt reduce raiders to the NPC faction in my previous post.

[vedaras]

"Fun" is very subjectiv.
I think that "interest to play" is a better value for a game purpose.

Nobody stay in the raider faction actually.
For sure, there is any current interest to do. And thats near the same for all NPC faction...
Thats why we discuss here about some changes, isnt it ?

That said, I didnt reduce raiders to the NPC faction in my previous post.

i consider fun when you have same chances to be successful in different playing style, that means balance :>

Well vault city has medical terminal for example, towns love you and vc caravans with vc patrols defend you. So being in vc is good.

Now in raiders, everyone hates you and attack you, you can only craft bullets of weapons noone use, and now we even have a bug where khan raiders attack you in ecounters and if you attack them back you lose karma with them. And you want to make these differences between factions even bigger, do you think of that as fun? You are discussing about changes that would make things worse not better. I agree that you can get reward for being high ranked member (but i do not agree with 10 power armor limit, that is non-sense, everyone should have same ability to get that reward, not those who start playing earlier or plays more hours per day), but that reward system should be as much balanced as possible and if some factions will get bigger advantages than others, then these factions should be enclave and raiders not vc and bos since last 2 factions condition is worse ( still i think these advantages should be as even as possible).

[Roachor]

I'm all for PA because it'll make fights last longer and make the minigun less OP while increasing the usefulness of targeted shots.

[vedaras]

I'm all for PA because it'll make fights last longer and make the minigun less OP while increasing the usefulness of targeted shots.

psycho adds 30% to ressitance pa will add 0% more resistance from ba, just 4 threshold, in balance thing against miniguns it would do very little (even 2 toughness perks are adding more). And if you will be able to get your pa, you will be in bos faction not in human, so that balance against miniguns wont be so important to you neither. Removing perk accuracy from miniguns would give balance, since miniguns are the least not the most accurate weapons in war.

[Roachor]

Not everyone uses psycho as it requires you to take 4 other drugs just to be able to hit anything and its expensive and time consuming to produce.

[vedaras]

Not everyone uses psycho as it requires you to take 4 other drugs just to be able to hit anything and its expensive and time consuming to produce.

and pa must be very cheap...

[SmartCheetah]

Imho PA/APA's and other armors like that should be acquireable only by:
a) Quests for people who RP and stuff like that
b) gathering+PvE to acquire very rare certaing parts + lvl 21 armorer. But it should take time and be so g'damn rare that bigger factions would have about 1-2 people in detoriated power armors until next one is created ;] Absolutely expensive piece of equipment. = It will encourage people to make other things instead of PvP, PvP, PvP, Craft, PvP, PvP. Raids for parts and other things. Personally - I would love to see it.

This way everyone will be happy I think. With coming 3d changes it will be easier because Enclave/BoS armors can have different models/textures so player-made-PA can look different too.

Some day I will post the whole idea with more points, not so "general".