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[JovankaB]

Please do not kill the current feature for PvEers

You need fast relog for PvE? SERIOUSLY? How cheap some players can be?
How about taking some challenge instead? :/

Also gangs with shared chars -> gone as it is right now.

How so? Shared char is relogged every 2 minutes and must have 100% combat abilities?
What kind of char are you talking about?

Not to mention shared chars is another curse of wasteland, some tiny nerf wouldn't hurt.

[HertogJan]

Not to mention shared chars is another curse of wasteland, some tiny nerf wouldn't hurt.

This session stimulates shared characters due to a lot of things:
mining - depleted resources, 1 alt per mine
crafting - blueprints
trading - new system
repairing - new system
sciencing - return depending on skill

Pre-wipe there was much less sharing of characters. Most I've seen of it pre-wipe was for helping someone to get an alt to his private base or taxi alts.

[Andr3aZ]

Oh I knew you would react like that if I don't write my point in more detail.

See we have gang-chars for quests for example. Now everybody is doin their thing when one calls to group-questing. Which is very much fun. Now everyone is scattered around the wasteland or is not geared up etc. People moan about waiting for others 15 minutes and stuff. So we just relog to our faction-chars, have fun together with PvE and after that is over, logout, login, back to your personal char. This is fun for players, doesn't hurt anyone and boosts social play. And the best: you can do it anytime and instantly.

Now I can understand we can discuss about the time of CD on relog all day but for most people -> waiting = boring.
Most people > you.

And stop blabbering stuff about me beeing cheap all out of the blue just to defend your point, we are both long enough in this game and we both know that we both want to make it less-exploit and less-cheat ridden. I played through all seasons since 2nd and nobody ever heard any whine from my side regarding game-mechanics. Perma-Death, Mega-Long CD on everything, etc etc - i don't care, I just want to roam the wastes of F1+2 with more than just NPCs.

[avv]

The first post should be rephrased so that this sleepyness only concerns combat, or at least combat. Gathering is still open question.

[Nice_Boat]

Jovanka, you never were a PvP player, why do you think your solutions are going to make people who have been fighting for 3 years now happy? This sleepyness mechanic is just another timesink that keeps PvP apes from PvPing and makes the game less fun for them. In tactical terms, 2 minutes is just not enough and 10 minutes+ required to make the difference is downright retarded. Same thing really as with drugs a few sessions before - they used to require waiting during the withdrawal period and people complained, now the entire process is smooth and non-intrusive in gameplay terms and everyone is happy. Obviously, I assume that the goal here is making people happy instead of making them butthurt so initiatives like this one are simply counter-productive.

As to the whole alting and multilogging issue - it's the most efficient way to play this game and it's about the only way that keeps you occupied at all times, if you don't want that than the fault is with the game itself, not with the playerbase (who shows basic adaptation skills by using those techniques). Waging a guerilla war on the large part of the community is not going to do anything good, but you just seem to never learn. I mean, name one positive thing about implementing the numerous timesinks and running witch hunts that happened in the last few years, because the only result I've seen was people getting irritated and/or quitting, which in turn resulted in a very limited playerbase we have now. So yeah, shouldn't you be doing something useful like creating content for non-PvP oriented people (there used to be a lot, now there's almost none) instead of forcing yourself onto lads who generally are quite content with how things are?

[T-888]

This sleepyness mechanic is just another timesink that keeps PvP apes from PvPing and makes the game less fun for them.In tactical terms, 2 minutes is just not enough and 10 minutes+ required to make the difference is downright retarded.

So what you like many waves of characters ? Here you go about some unknown tactical terms what are supposed to be related to a simple cooldown witch prevents you from winning fights because you have more characters on worldmap , just what the fuck man. Some sort of cooldown is necessary or we will make this game retarded as requiem.

[Nice_Boat]

So what you like many waves of characters ? Here you go about some unknown tactical terms what are supposed to be related to a simple cooldown witch prevents you from winning fights because you have more characters on worldmap , just what the fuck man.

Sigh.

Many waves of characters are and have always been the reality of this game whether I like them or not, that's besides the point. The thing is 120 seconds of cooldown are not going to fix this (600 could but hey, welcome to the world of proxies and ip-changes), because prepping a new wave takes about 3-4 minutes even when everyone can just relog to a character waiting over the town. If you consider the fact that most of the times when you reenter with reinforcements you still have some people who retreated from the map on hand your post just starts sounding ridiculously uneducated.

Here's a few things to take into account if we're going to discuss this thing properly:
- the numbers game depends more on players, and less on characters at our disposal 5 people with 500 characters are not going to beat 10 people with 10 characters ceteris paribus no matter how many times you run it
- moving alts over the town when there's no preset TC windows is a serious logistical issue and slows you down so much that any single-char crew is going to outmaneuver you without breaking a sweat
- spawntaxies allow for hasty reentries whether we have relogs or not
- spawns are located close to towns, people have bases on the same square anyway, so even w/o spawntaxies reentry is ridiculously fast
- morale is a serious limiting factor when it comes to the length of a PvP battle, a decisive victory will keep the other side from trying again whether they have available relogs or not; if it's a balanced battle, repeated engagements are not necessarily bad
- there've been ways to fast relog since 2009 and it hasn't been a serious issue, now the only thing that changed is the fact that you have to make a few clicks less and suddenly we're in the middle of an apocalypse? What happened?

The only thing that this cooldown would change is the removal of star trek teleportations (ie. spawning entire squads inside the town ready to rock and roll), but it's never been a real problem because logging off entire squads is a dangerous thing to do, it's not that easy to predict opponents exact position to make it efficient and even when you spawn right on top of them it's still a very risky thing to do... and let's face it, star trek attacks done right are hilarious and nobody ever complained about them too much anyway.

So yeah, this is basically a non-issue taken up by a non-PvP'er to make people she dislikes "suffer", which is doomed to fail because those things have been done to death by this point and they never work anyway.

[avv]

Many waves of characters are and have always been the reality of this game whether I like them or not, that's besides the point.

They weren't in previous session. I saw team-wide fast relog happening only once in the whole session. Majority of pvp gangs didn't simply bother to bypass the relog timer, they did pvp with what they had and regeared after dying.

Fact is that if nothing is done, the team with most waves wins so best start levelling your replicas.

[blahblah]

As to the whole alting and multilogging issue - it's the most efficient way to play this game and it's about the only way that keeps you occupied at all times, if you don't want that than the fault is with the game itself, not with the playerbase

Full-loot is preventing people from having fun at PvP. You should respawn with all your items intact and a bonus 100 ammo after 30 seconds from dying. And of course the respawn location should be selectable because players lose time travelling.

[Nice_Boat]

They weren't in previous session. I saw team-wide fast relog happening only once in the whole session. Majority of pvp gangs didn't simply bother to bypass the relog timer, they did pvp with what they had and regeared after dying.

Fact is that if nothing is done, the team with most waves wins so best start levelling your replicas.

What's the difference between a 120 second regear occuring simultaneously with a 120 second scouting period and a 120 second scouting period after a char switch? Because I see none. And honestly, if you're saying that wave attacks didn't happen in the previous sessions I'm just at loss for words and you're either full of crap or have a severe case of sclerosis. I remember a BBS on VSB fight a session or two ago that lasted for 4 hours and was actually

FUN

because both sides did <60 second regears numerous times. Fast relogging doesn't hold any real advantage over that, short "cooldowns" don't do shit because they can be waited out while scouting happens, period.

Full-loot is preventing people from having fun at PvP. You should respawn with all your items intact and a bonus 100 ammo after 30 seconds from dying. And of course the respawn location should be selectable because players lose time travelling.

That's a nice strawman you have there, sadly that doesn't really relate to anything I've said. You're just trying to justify bad, boring gameplay with "but this game is based on putting effort into stuff, so obviously demanding meaningless effort must be good".

[avv]

What's the difference between a 120 second regear occuring simultaneously with a 120 second scouting period and a 120 second scouting period after a char switch? Because I see none. And honestly, if you're saying that wave attacks didn't happen in the previous sessions I'm just at loss for words and you're either full of crap or have a severe case of sclerosis. I remember a BBS on VSB fight a session or two ago that lasted for 4 hours and was actually

FUN

Didn't say wave attacks didn't happen, just said they didn't happen that often. Dude you weren't even that active in previous session.
VSB was pretty much completely inactive for the last year in last session and when they did play I don't remember them doing any mass scale fastrelogs. It's possible in the beginning of session because I didn't participate that.
Fact is: in last session the relog timer did keep wave fights at bay and pvp was fun. Only cheat that I saw used alot was proxy mercs, scouts and looters.

Fast relogging doesn't hold any real advantage over that, short "cooldowns" don't do shit because they can be waited out while scouting happens, period.

In places like gecko mine, new reno and basically anywhere where grid is close to action fast relogs have advantage when combat is on. In addition fast relogging when action is still going on is an obvious benefit due to fast reinforcements. In small scale fights an additional jump of single char can be decisive.
This all should be pretty obvious.

[Kilgore]

Fact is that if nothing is done, the team with most waves wins so best start levelling your replicas.

Then do it, in order to achieve victory at all costs start exping 10 replicas of your pvp char. Oh wait, you've already started.

I don't care if they use 2 or 10 wave alts to fight, it's up to them if they want to die three times in order to win once :>
I doubt that many people will make dozens of characters and then place them all over worldmap just to win. I'd rather say it's a minority of such players. And such minority of players will bypass anything in order to win. 2-mins sleep time? Keep 3, 4 windows with characters logged in, on fast proxies, no problem bro.

Btw talking about being active in previous session, I haven't seen you much in the beginning of it, while I witnessed whole teams fast relogging many times. Stop being ridiculous.

[Aricvomit]

My whole thing is that fastlogging on to your pvp alt to kill someone that just killed you pve guy is not cool, its bullshit cheating, I dont really care about any other aspect other than the old timeout at least prevented the majority of players from cheating and fast relogging. there is no boon to pvp here, there is no good aspect of this. if your a cheater im sure youd be against modifying the relog so i cant really understand why people would want to keep it as is other than to abuse the game system.

[Kilgore]

Dude, there are lots of people who aren't at all interested in pvp or looting your beyond repair leather jacket, they probably have more than one char and such timer would make nothing except piss them off.

[avv]

Dude, there are lots of people who aren't at all interested in pvp or looting your beyond repair leather jacket, they probably have more than one char and such timer would make nothing except piss them off.

2 minute timer that prevents fighting right after relog is going to piss them off? How often you go fighting anything inside 2 minutes of logging in if you're not combat fastrelogging?