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[Aricvomit]

 "How the hell is 2238 PvP ever supposed to get any real depth that isn't based on exploits"

Think about that... you just basically admitted to what the problem is, pvp exploiting. this is what they're trying to fix because the current system allows for it.

[Nice_Boat]

"How the hell is 2238 PvP ever supposed to get any real depth that isn't based on exploits"

Think about that... you just basically admitted to what the problem is, pvp exploiting. this is what they're trying to fix because the current system allows for it.

Fast relogging is an exploit in the same way a 5pool rush is in StarCraft. It's something existing within the framework of the game and it causes butthurt. An example of an exploit would be infinite grenades or positioning yourself in a place where people can't shoot at you due to scrolling issues.

[T-888]

I'm amazed by your clairvoyance as to defining gamebreaking tactics after a month-long session, especially considering the impending TC overwhaul. I'm also amazed by your lack of understanding ...

It's simply you don't have much to tell me anything just simple , rudimentary insults , how childish ... talking about emotions.

Here's how i imagine you.

Fast relogging is an exploit in the same way a 5pool rush is in StarCraft. It's something existing within the framework of the game and it causes butthurt. An example of an exploit would be infinite grenades or positioning yourself in a place where people can't shoot at you due to scrolling issues.

Tell me please again , i just missed your whole point your talking too much in the wrong direction i lost myself sorry , so what do you don't like about this feature ? Can you just sum up your thoughts ?

this is what they're trying to fix because the current system allows for it.

I agree on this , before change there was no problem with those 3 minutes everyone just got used to the cooldown , but now every large fights i gather 3-4 characters on world map and when i'm forced to enter with one of the last characters it makes me feel the fight was degrading , sooner or later everyone else will have to adjust to that , will become a habbit and the fights will .... well just who has the most meat to throw out. I'm not quite sure what nice boat is arguing about , maybe he likes requiem kind of style play , but this is not requiem.

Now he most probably is going to tell me how narrow-minded and bla bla bla  , but face it boat your bad at presenting your point of view , too chaotic.

[falloutdude]

i like fast logger for 1 thing. crafting. no need to wait 10 min anymore just to craft 1 thing. that was a waste of time. but for pvp its terriable. like triple said..... he has 3-4 alts owm i fought them all couple times and let me say its annoying as all fuck. makes winning in a battle hard and when you do win it was not even fun because you are stressed out the whole battle with no time to loot and no time to prepare just wave after wave after wave.

[Kilgore]

Previous session there was a 3 minute cooldown on reloging and there were no second waves or something like that , your walls of text are quite obsolete.

Dunno how long you are playing this game dude (probably not even from the start of previous session), but there of course WERE second waves of whole teams entering the battle not after 3minutes of relog cooldown, but after 30 seconds. The fact that you didn't witness it doesn't mean there was no such thing, stop being ignorant. There were even nice message logs from Solar airstriking them on one occasion he caught them.

Here's how i imagine you.

Erm, weren't you the one that wanted to "destroy verbally someone" on forums? Lol, dude.

Btw:

but now every large fights i gather 3-4 characters on world map and when i'm forced to enter with one of the last characters it makes me feel the fight was degrading

Gg, I admire you. Now, seriously: nobody forces you to use any additional characters. Absolutely nothing happens if you lose in a computer game while playing fair.

[blahblah]

That's a nice strawman you have there, sadly that doesn't really relate to anything I've said. You're just trying to justify bad, boring gameplay with "but this game is based on putting effort into stuff, so obviously demanding meaningless effort must be good".

I'm not justifying anything. It's a honest suggestion. If you want the game to be more fun, why not remove the major problems that force people to create multiple PvP characters? Just make respawning take 30 seconds so that the player gets punished a bit and that's it. No item loss. No map travel. Bonus ammo too, because it's more FUN. Why should it not be this way if you want the game to be fun?

Such stuff should always raise the fun, not making it even more a pain in the ass for everyone. Your intention for the suggestion is noble, but adding just another cooldown is just not good, in my humble opinion.

I then suggest, if you want to raise the fun, that the only solution to remove alts is to never lose items. This is not a fun element, this is the reason people switch characters, this is why people complain about crafting, this is why people make crafting alts. Just make this into a TPP quake game and everybody will be happy, right? This raises the fun for players.

[BenKain]

OP defiantly needs to be implemented. This fast-relog thing is really starting to get on my nerves and I don't even PvP.

[Marko]

Why BenK? If you don't PvP, then how does FR even effect you at all?

[BenKain]

The stated example in the New Reno PvP post, was I have entered New Reno with my cadre of mercs, ready to do no more than trade. A man appears and invariably start shooting. After an intense struggle (my mercs not me, I have 0% combat ), our enemy lies dead. I should be able to peacefully trade and GTFO, but no, someone with a fraction of a name-change pops in ten seconds later for another bout. I barely defeat him. Oh, now there's another! This one has a symbol and the exact same name. He kills me and my sales run is for naught, the bodyguards I bought are for naught, and the game is broken for me..

If I've beaten the bastard, I should be able to continue on my way, not be assailed by the same person four times in 30 seconds.

[Marko]

Okay. But BenK, you and i are both miners and workers. We both fight too and i'm sure you're as willing to do more PvP just like i am. So people like you and me typically all like Fast Relog. We want it to stay! When you get PK'd in a mine, at least you have the option to switch quickly to a fighter and go deal some justice. FR is our friend.

[BenKain]

No its not. I don't care if I get legitimately PKed in an unguarded town or mine. Sure, that's fine, he can have my stuff, he beat me fair and square. I can wait one minute, and I'll take whatever spawn area, and I'll move on.
It was likely this revenge shtick that started the whole, FR-altswarm shit in the first place.

Fast-relog is an exploit that should be returned to a bannable offence. I totally understand why its almost impossible to track, so the "Sleepy Character" is a perfect fix in my opinion.
 

[Marko]

Ugh. Dude you have this all wrong (again). Fast Relog means simply you don't have to wait 3 minutes when you log out of one guy and want to switch to another. It's not an exploit. It's the developers dropping an irritant from last season. They used that delay to catch people multi-logging, which is an exploit. The fact they dropped the delay was not the addition of an exploit; it was simply the removal of an irritation that caused delays for all players. We players gave it a name: Fast Relog. It really should be called "No More Login Delay".

So it's not an exploit. Nor do i use it as an exploit. I use it to find blueprints solo. I use it to help people buy bases when there's not enough friends online atm. I can also use it to deal justice (not revenge) to a PK whose over-brutal play style suppresses the game.

If you want to put this in terms of "fair and square" though, then apply it equally to the Reno example and what do you get? That guy got killed "fair and square" and he should move on (or switch to a fighter and go deal some justice maybe himself). Just moving on and not fighting tyranny is the lazy way.

Also for the record: seeking justice or revenge either one, is NOT how the alt-swarm thing started. The alt-swarm thing started when PvP "apes" realized how not having the login delay changed things: they could more quickly return to a battle and thus extend the battle and get more game play out of their PvP sessions. It works fine for some apes, but other apes hate it.

But like i said, you and i haven't spent much time in that arena yet, so the PvP side of this argument is not even our turf [yet]. For any miner, FR is a good thing that gives an option we did not have last season.

[BenKain]

My biggest point is, you don't need alts to solo anything. Just build a good character.

[JovankaB]

Ugh. Dude you have this all wrong (again). Fast Relog means simply you don't have to wait 3 minutes when you log out of one guy and want to switch to another

And my idea wouldn't prevent you from switching from one character to another. Just not for the purpose of pwning a character who 10 seconds earlier won a fair fight against you.

[Marko]

Okay i see the idea has changed a bit. It's that "who 10 seconds earlier won a fair fight against you" part on which i will now focus..

The Level 24 energy sniper who melted my naked blue Level 3 miner into goo with one shot and no warning while i worked...did he just beat me in a fair fight? No and i should be able to get him and deal some justice. I believe your idea, even updated, would prevent me from dealing that justice. Am i wrong when i say the miner-hating murderers could once again get away with it over and over like last year?