After reading most of the posts within this topic i'll try to sum up some things, which have been said, including my own opinion (please forgive me if i missed someone/something important). I will try to not go into detail too much, what counts is the big picture of all ideas:
Militia- the majority of players want to
remove or at least make them
less powerful (number, HP, equipment) for certain reasons (balancing, swarm reducing, abusing etc.)
- if militia will stay in one or the other way there could be a
difference in
number, power of them and the
equipment they use
according to the city itself (
like suggested by Nexxos)
- also, if they stay, some major points have to be looked over again:
1. the possibillity to add mercs to the militia maybe should be removed
2. some solution for the "easy killing" problem (miltia trap)
3. more functions: control features for patrol routes/guarding a certain spot, friend or foe features ...
4. should militia increase their power (manpower, HP, equipment) when a gang holds the town for a certain time?
At the time they were implemented they seem to be a good idea and i still think, that there are some few good things about them. But all in all i agree to the point to (at least) lower their numbers and their power. Depending on how the system will work in the future they also could be removed completely.TC Windows (suggested by several people)- some point which was discussed a lot because there's a big controversy about it...
- some pros and cons about them (including new ideas of some people here):
- gangs know exactly when to take town, players can prepare for some certain time(s) per day when they are able to play the game
- between the windows there is a chance for "RP" and/or (in general) players who populate the city (assuming that the faction, who holds the city allows this)
- since there is(are) only a certain time(s) when a city can be taken, gangs can prepare for this well and the winner dont have to fear, that some gang is taking it back for a certain period
- some players wont be able to take part in TC anymore (work, timezones)
- the point above could lead to an imbalanced situation in gang fights
- that game system "dictates" gangs/players a certain time to take a town is seen as restrictment to their freedom by some people
- some guys proposed to have
more then only one time a day a city is takeable (ranging from two up to five windows and more a day)
For me, TC windows were not a bad idea but to have them back feels a bit like to fall back into some older system instead of coming up with something new. Beside this i don't think that adding more windows a day will solve all problems (and adding more and more windows for TC a day makes also no sense ofc). The only thing which would make them a TC system of my choice would be the idea of populated cities between the windows but this isn't something you can count on and is strongly binded to the reaction of the gang, who holds a city.New TC system ideas:"Hold the Hill" (suggested by Kilgore)- timer to take a town will be
removed or at least lowered
- the town can't be
taken anymore but instead it can be
hold by a gang
- as long as there is a minimum amount of players of a certain gang who
stays within the town (or a defined area of it) it is officially in their hands
- rewards will be given out every
10 to 15 minutes (for example)
- when the gang leaves the city or gets ambushed and killed by another gang (aka amount of players < min amount to hold it) it
switches back to a neutral town, leaving the opportunity for other gangs to take it in their hands
I hope i summed up the main points here. Personally i think, that this idea is simply good for several reasons. First of all it's much more realistic, to have the force, which protects a city or a part of it, around at least, then to have some kind of auto-control over it. Also i think this system can be implemented more easily then some others. But the biggest potential i see in it is the fact, that it could be combined with some other ideas to "round" it up a bit:(some ideas)
- - after the gang leaves the town there could be some "out time" before another gang can take it (not much though, maybe around 1 ingame hour or even less)
- - instead of having windows when a town can be taken (yes i know this system was suggested as no-windows-at-all-system there could be a small time window each day where it can't be taken (for trading/mining/whatever)
- - a town which has been held for some time period could become untakeable for some time (also not much, maybe 1 ingame day), rewards will be adjusted to only 1 time each 2 hours then but will raise a bit in amount
Dynamic windows and zones (suggested by KTTdestroyer)I'm not sure if i got this right in all points, so i'll quote destroyer here:
To support this way of thinking, 15 minutes is way to short time to throw out a faction that sees the town as their home. However, 15 minutes is aswell more then enough time to stand and wait for enemy to show up... So it is a problem in both ways. I would suggest something i suggested long time ago, that the towns would be split into 3 capture zones each. The third is the final zone, The zone that can be only reached by capturing the first 2, it must be done by steps. After the first capture the zone remains open for capture for 30 minutes, so the faction defending has an oportunity to strike back. Also once the first timer started, it also sets the time zone for the next day with 3 hours forward and back. For exemple: If a zone is taken at 00:00 GMT+1 and held for this 30 minutes, then next day, any faction can make another attempt at time frame 21:00 to 3:00 am. If it is the defending faction that takes it between 00:00-00:59 the time zone stays the same, if it takes it between 21:00-23:59 then the time zone is moved back 1 hour (20:00-2:00), if after 1:00 am then moved forward one hour. so to fully take over a town you need 3 days and you have to win 3 battles straight victories. Together with this remove TC from 3 AM to 10 AM and you got dynamic TC time frames.
- towns will be separated
into 3 capture zones, which all have to be taken (step by step) to be in charge of the whole town in the end
- each captured zone can be retaken by another gang within a certain time window after it was successfully taken in first place
- once a zone is taken it automatically sets a
new time window (depending on the time it was taken at) for the next zone (? <-- not sure at this point)
I see some advantages in this idea but also some main problems. What i really like is the idea of dynamic windows but at the same time this may also be the worst part of it. As opposing gang you need to have to observe your enemies progress very well to know when to attack them while they take the next zone. This could be simplyfied by implementing some sort of visible timer in the pip boy (which shows the times a new strike is possible) but all in all it still sounds like it could be a bit too confusing. Also, 3 days to take a town may be a bit too harsh all in all and could lead to frustrating situations when a team almost won a town and then gets drawed back by the enemy just some minutes before it reaches this goal. Still some adjustments of this system could work:- up to 3 zones have to be taken before a town is in charge of a gang ("up to" means adjustments to smaller towns; Den/Klamath remain at 1 zone, Gecko/Modoc have 2, Redding/BH 3)
- After one zone is taken the gang may choose if they continue on the next instantly (means they may gain some more loot at the end) or to lock the counter for a max time of 1 hour maybe. Within this time another gang can try to take the already taken zone, if they succeed both teams control 1 zone and the fight will continue on zone 2; the winner of that battle holds 2 zones all in all then. The team controlling no zones at all can try to regain the first zone after this fight but will have to defeat the enemy again in zone 2 after this.
- The point above again sounds too confusing i have to admit but actually this zone thing could work out well when there were some rules each team has to obey and some point system (for example 3 wins in whatever zone, in a row means automatically to rule the town and all TC will be locked for a certain time, in addition 2 losses in a row means, that the loser can't try again for some time)
TC and Raid - Split it up! (suggested by Cha)- the system of TC will be
split up in 2 possibilities to gain control over a town
- 1 long term "
Annexation" and 1 short term "
Raid"
- Annexation provides the status of the
ownership a gang has over the town, no matter if there is some "Raid" during this time and would also provide better loot in the end. After a successful annexation there is a time period during which no other gang can annexate it.
- During annexation another gang (smaller team for example) can try to
ambush and raid the city to gain some quick loot. This wont change the ownership of the gang who holds the city (it will fall back in their hands when the raid is over) and also won't provide only a small amount of loot (compared to the annexation).
In my opinion this isn't much of a change to the actual system (not meaning that small changes are bad ). Annexation mode would be (at least in cha's vision) some kind of stretch up of the normal TC, like it is now. It would be a bit harder to get the town but if you are successful you can lay back a bit and enjoy your fruits while others still can do little raids. And that's actually the part of this system which is kinda new here. Generally speaking you would have --> Dat TC (and this system could still be changed as long as it is some type of long term control of a town -> for example see 3 zones idea)
and a more faster way to get some loot,
--> the Raid (also this could be another system --> for example see Hold the Hill )Cha didn't go much into detail here but thats not that important. The main idea has some attraction because it provides some chance for a smaller team to gain some reward and to do some PvP/PvE. Though, this must be implemented very well to work i think and it probably wont work right in the first place (or at least there's much beta-beta-testing necessary which could lead to bigger frustration by all sides. At least i still like the big picture of it. Having some opportunity to do smaller raids instead of always spending hours on a big TC would be a nice thingy.Some side idea as i would call it is this one:
"Lets meet in the desert, punks!" (
suggested by KTTdestroyer)
- With the
faction terminal there could come some feature along to arrange gang fights.
- Both sides put in some amount of caps and meet somewhere in the desert (aka special fight area like hinkley) to fight each other.
- The winner gets the caps and maybe some additional loot
- With a special
TC terminal this could work for Town Control too. This time its not (or not only about caps) but its about the reward to hold a town.
- Each fight would be done by equal numbers of players (or some other ratio if chosen and accepted by both sides)
I know i generalized your idea a bit here destroyer (sorry for that , its about the big picture again; everyone can read the details on his own at your post). For me one of the most important things would be to see northern towns populated a bit more again. (I know , i know ..."Leave northern towns to apes!"..."99% of player are PvPler, live with it!" ..."ROAWWR!" and so on . I won't comment on this and it wouldn't lead to anything really for the actual discussion. So just skip this out for now and try to imagine a system were both could actually be possible.)
This system would have a chance to provide this, i think. Also there could be regular gang fights as well as there could be fights for TC (here some minimum gear and amount of players each site should be necessary). And finally the teams would be equal, the winner won, the loser lost...Finally there are some
General suggestions (suggested by several people)-
fix minimum requirements of a team to take a town -->
LSW, RL should count as High Tier too
-
increasing rewards and/or
TC timer when a gang holds a town for some time -->
Awards in general, also see
BlackKeys Post- one gang
one town rule
- bringing more
life into a town --> faction holding a town could have the possibility to improve it a bit (instead of adding militia only as protection they could add certain traders or special chars too like Gunsmiths or Armorers, Brahmin dealers whatever)