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[TheGreenHand]

Heres a suggestion, if someone steals from you and fails, a red(as an example) timer appears over his head signifying that you ,and only you, can engage him without guards interfering. This timer is for your character (maybe clan ?) only, and it doesn't go away if he leaves and comes back. Maybe you can make it so that all players witnessing the steal attempt can engage as well, but even just personal would be a good step.

The timer should be something like 30-60 minutes, or something long enough to make sure that while stealing stays useable on others, while greatly decreasing the ability of some idiot trolling certain shops/areas/you for the fun of just f****** with people.

I don't see the benefit of this over the current system of the guards saying "XXXX, that was pathetic" and the thief becoming unprotected.

[Trokanis]

Sorry Solar, I get ya now.  And as far as only being attackable by the one you failed to steal from, and the guards going 'that was pathetic' they should be like "XXXXX IS A THIEF AND A PATHETIC ONE" So everyone can know.

[Harry C]

The whole "the wasteland is a harsh place" argument for letting pvp theft run rampant is total crap.  Its true that stealing would occur in the wasteland, but there would be one critical difference: death would be permanent.  In other words, some annoying ass would not return after being caught and killed.  Alternatively, the thief would be heavily branded to mark him as such or have several fingers cut off to prevent future stealing.  Or both.  Not to mention the fact that stealing anything larger than a wallet would be nearly impossible in real life.  Closed pockets, anyone? Duh?  Pockets inside of a vest? Locked backpack? There are ways to prevent pickpocketing, but none are available in fonline.  Why?  If the thieves are going to get superpowers and infinite lives, plus no reasonable repercussions for thievery, then the targets should at least have a penalty-free and OBVIOUS means of recourse.  All thieves (caught or not) should be marked as enemies, outlined in red, and have their names recorded in the pipboy for at least a week (as targets).  Honestly, if a thief failed once (or a few times) word would get around.  It would be KNOWN that the person was a thief.  The cities just are not big enough to "meld into the crowd," generally.  Alternatively, there should be a "safe" inventory (say a container in the inventory) that can hold stuff and be totally thief proof (as well as invisible to others while alive).  Real world counterpart: inside vest pockets. (and don't start with the "they're just that good" nonsense.  Personal space, anyone?  if someone bumps into you in a wide open not-crowded space, it would be obvious that he or she is a thief or idiotically clumsy.  In the wasteland, the automatic assumption would be the former.  This would make stealing from a front pocket effectively impossible, especially if it was closed, and definitely if it was inside of a closed coat.)  Perhaps it could only hold a few things or a percentage of carry weight.  Even better: the more times a character has had steal used on him, the harder it would be to steal from him.  This may be the perfect solution.  Similar to the current system, but each steal attempt raises "theft AC" until it becomes effectively impossible to steal from that person.  This TAC would be temporary, lasting perhaps a few days.  Thus, thieves could do their crap, but would have to move on once someone "wised up" and started taking appropriate precautions.  This would prevent some thief ass from ragging on someone and, hopefully, would be less annoying in general.  It would also be more realistic than the current system (then again, almost anything would).

[AceOfSpades]

When I start this game I was rob a few time.. I was to naive and didn't see it coming, hell once I didn't even see when and who took everything from me - that was nice. I wasn't mad at them but on me.

But when some troll thief is fallowing me everywhere, spaming science on me, making fun of me, and making me unable to even stop and talk to some new friend - that,s is bullsh1t sir.

In this scaled 'Harsh wasteland' I would just punch the ugly mutherf... and continue talk like nothing ever happen. So if u wanna use "harsh wasteland' argument u need to considerate 2 side of coin.

I know I know u can only call some a thief if u catch him red handed, but if there is only U and One guy in whole freaking town he stand next to u and u see u dont have some or all of ur items what u say:

a) Hmm I think I have lost my minigun somewhere ohhh well.
b) U pice of sh1t give back my minigun *put shotgun into his mouth* NOW!
     b1) He give ur stuff back
     b2) Pull triger

But option b2 is impossible coz in 'safe' town guard will kill u and thief lose nothing, and b1 ? he will laughing for days from u after hearing that.

And like Harry tell some marked as a thief shouldn't have a easy life in this small community what we have here. 

but that just my opinion, and no I dodn;t play as thief coz I don't like to take something from people who worked hard for it especially some bluesiute who have almost nothing as a lot of u thief do - thx to that we got a lot of rage quit, maybe less that Pk but still.

PS sorry of my English

[TheGreenHand]

The whole "the wasteland is a harsh place" argument for letting pvp theft run rampant is total crap.  Its true that stealing would occur in the wasteland, but there would be one critical difference: death would be permanent.  Alternatively, the thief would be heavily branded to mark him as such or have several fingers cut off to prevent future stealing.  Or both. 

Not to mention the fact that stealing anything larger than a wallet would be nearly impossible in real life. 

Yeah, well surviving a shot in the eyes with any type of gun would also be impossible in real life, as is taking a drug that makes you more charismatic, as are deathclaws and aliens roaming the deserts, as is respawning, which you yourself mentioned. Obviously this is adapted to make gameplay interesting. The same argument can be made for the rest that you were ranting about.

But when some troll thief is fallowing me everywhere, spaming science on me, making fun of me, and making me unable to even stop and talk to some new friend - that,s is bullsh1t sir.

I agree, trolling thieves suck. But they have mentioned that the steal animation will be changed so this will no longer be a problem in the near future.

But option b2 is impossible coz in 'safe' town guard will kill u and thief lose nothing, and b1 ? he will laughing for days from u after hearing that.

Well that's realistic though. Can you prove that minigun was yours? Did it have your name on it? If the guards didn't see it, they have no way of knowing whose it is. They just see you haul off and kill someone, which would be grounds for killing you, in my opinion.

[vrag]

I dont know if this has been mentioned allready, but I think its idiotic that you can be "pickpocketed" when your dealing with merchant.
There should be safe zones.
And many times the barter screen is on your character so you cant really pay attention if someone is standing next to you because you cant see shit.

Make the bartering safe zones from stealing.
Just my two cents.

[TheGreenHand]

I dont know if this has been mentioned allready, but I think its idiotic that you can be "pickpocketed" when your dealing with merchant.
There should be safe zones.
And many times the barter screen is on your character so you cant really pay attention if someone is standing next to you because you cant see shit.

Make the bartering safe zones from stealing.

The devs have mentioned that they're not interested in making safe zones, which is a good thing. To recap a little from this lengthy thread, the stealing animation will be changed either with 3D or the next wipe, I'm not sure which. But this alone will solve much of the trolling problem.
As for not being able to see when bartering, you can move the barter window or, a better option, download a new skin, either Ras or Pure Evil. Both are very well done and I believe have options for transparent dialog windows. I use Ras Clear, you can see right through your barter window so you can see everything going on behind it.

[ronillon]

I really like the idea, that weakened status should affect your skills. When weakened, all skills would have 50% (or so) penalty to chance to succeed. Or better, every minute of weakened state should give you 10% penalty.

And when talking about it, it should be possible to remove weakened by say, eating some food and drinking some water?

As for other solutions...

Unprotected status should remain after death, and it's lenght should be according to thieves reputation.

Along with animation changes, griefers should have much harder time.

Also don't forget about day/night changes in the perception and stuff. Personally, i would like thieves prowling in sneak at night time in the Hub.

To tell the truth, i would like Thieves to use skills, that are incriesed by http://fo2238.fodev.net/wiki/Thief perk. Sneak, Lock pick, Steal, and Traps skills. But i understand, this would be really hard to implement now.

OT: The fact, that even with the lowest Science, you can dissasemble complex weapon/armor in notime bothers me a lot more. And it's without cooldown as well, to make it even worse.

[Wallace]

I just got back from NCR... dead
Why is that?
Because i tried to sell freshly crafted flamers to the store
half of them were stolen before i could drag them into barter screen and guards didn't do anything about it
I've left screen space to observe if any thief was after me but exiting from barter screen took enough time for a thief to steal most of my stuff
When i tried to attack thief for that the guards got me splattered all over the floor AND THEN didn't bother to collect my stuff so the thief robbed me from all my possessions

What i mean is: THERE IS NO FREAKIN' DEFENSE AGAINST THIEVES!
and that is f*cked up and need to be repaired

[RavenousRat]

I just got back from NCR... dead
Why is that?
Because i tried to sell freshly crafted flamers to the store
half of them were stolen before i could drag them into barter screen and guards didn't do anything about it
I've left screen space to observe if any thief was after me but exiting from barter screen took enough time for a thief to steal most of my stuff
When i tried to attack thief for that the guards got me splattered all over the floor AND THEN didn't bother to collect my stuff so the thief robbed me from all my possessions

What i mean is: THERE IS NO FREAKIN' DEFENSE AGAINST THIEVES!
and that is f*cked up and need to be repaired

Then how thieves would steal items? You want thieves to fail all the time and be unable to steal your possessions? Remove steal skill at all?

Oh noes! I was walking in wasteland with 100kk caps in my inventory! Some guy appeared in encounter and shot with bazooka! This is very very bad, remove bazookas from game, I hate them! BG skill is broken!! Remove guys appearing in the wasteland! Make me invulnerable to bazookas!

[Wallace]

Did you notice the capital letters at all??

I've said that there is NO DEFENSE against thieves and THAT should be fixed

Did i say anything about disabling stealing? NO! So be good boy and read carefully next time before you start saying random stuff okay?

[RavenousRat]

Did you noticed the capital letter at all??

I've said that there is NO DEFENSE against thieves and THAT should be fixed

Did i say anything about disabling stealing? NO! So be good boy and read carefully next time before you start saying random stuff okay?

Situation #1:
You're standing and looking on the ground infront of you and doing nothing (95% of time people doing that in NCR):
1) A thief moves his hands behind you.

 2a) Move cursor to hex infront of you.
 3a) Press left mouse button.

 2b) Don't carry items in your inventory.
 3b) Check inventory if he's planting dynamite to you.
 4b) Disarm dynamite so you won't die (if you have enough HP).

 2c) Carry something heavy in your hand slot.
 3c) Just ignore him, he can't steal anything from you because you have nothing in inventory and can't plant, because you have full carry weight.


Situatuion #2:
You're trading with Sha Enin (or some other unpopular trader):
1) Someone in bluesuit moves hands behind you.

2a) Press "ESC".
3a) Move 1 hex infront of you (or to make >1 hex between you and bluesuiter)
4a) Continue trading with Sha Enin (or some other unpopular trader).

2b) Carry only 2 items for sale and put them in both hands.
3b) Start talk to Sha Enin (or some other unpopular trader) and wait till bluesuiter checks you.
4b) Check inventory if it's a dynamite, disarm it if it is.
5b) Observe Sha Enin's (or some other unpopular trader) inventory to plan trading.
6b) Move items to inventory, sell/exchange them.

2c) Trade anywhere but NCR.

2d) Walk from Vortis.

2e) Stop craft flamers lol, craft something better and in one slot, like ammo or powders, you'll know price and numbers, just keep it in hands and don't walk from bazaar, if only you'll go check Mira/doc/Dusty and then return to Sha Enin/Buster/iguana.

[ThePhoenix77]

I don't like how you can't exit barter screen in one click when you see someone stealing from you. I would like to see a key press that would exit barter and fail steal attempt on you at same time as if to say 'aha caught you' - would be nice to see that appear above your head as well.

[Wallace]

Dude! But it's my right to sell flamers. And i cant put them all in a single hand slot. (even though they are all brand new and empty) Plus my carry weight was 138/124 at the moment

Plus Phoenix is absolutely right

[Grzesiu]

I don't like how you can't exit barter screen in one click when you see someone stealing from you. I would like to see a key press that would exit barter and fail steal attempt on you at same time as if to say 'aha caught you' - would be nice to see that appear above your head as well.

So abussable