Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[TheGreenHand]

If being weakened effects skills, it should effect all skills.
You said in an earlier reply to go crafting or mining, but that too doesn't make any sense when weakened.
You're weakened, so how could you physically be able to mine?
You don't have the skill to use a gun, than you also lack the science or repair skill to craft.

I disagree. I don't see why science or repair should be affected. Also, I said you could still have the skill to use a gun, it would just have a penalty to it; like blindness, only not as drastic. And regarding mining, again I don't think it should be something that should be nixed completely during weakness. I could see a reduced carry weight, which would make sense to be physically weakened during weakness. If that's the case, and ST were to be reduced, that itself could be enough to affect the use of a gun and an additional detriment would be unnecessary. I think the only skills that should be completely unusable during weakness would be steal and FA.
And as far as the weakness as a result of a critical fail on a heal goes... It's a critical fail. You screwed up. Critically. So that's a bad thing.

What's the point in this?
What should the thief compensate NCR for?

Agreed. I remain unconvinced that this is not insane.

[Reginmund]

What's the point in this?
What should the thief compensate NCR for?

Sounds like a bribery option to get off the hook although if the thief stole something significant it would take more than a small 100cap bribe. Then it raises questions about the integrity of the guards, should they be able to be paid off in advance to give you the ability to stalk and steal till you are spotted by your target?

[Ox-Skull]

1.If noticed by NPC guards, Failed steal results in a shoot on sight, in said "guarded" town for 15 minutes. Only on a re-entry.

2.A successfull steal, should make them unprotected to the person they robbed.

3.Only players "real" awareness will save them from being robbed or gunning hiim down b4 he gets away.

4.MSG that alerts player of failed steal should be in capitals and red.

5.Guards shouldlt loot a dead player. So said player has a chance ( a small chance, cuz everyone will swarm and try to get items) to get his stuff back.

Ox.

EDIT: But i must say, after playing for so long, You learn the tricks to avoid them. It wouldnt bother me, if it was left as is.

In a world where u cant show of ur car or whatever...... I mean ur hanging out with ur mates in NCR smokin cigarettes. and a bluesuiter walks up and says hi, then proceeds to steal ur car while u just smoke ur smoke and watch.....

[HertogJan]

I disagree. I don't see why science or repair should be affected. Also, I said you could still have the skill to use a gun, it would just have a penalty to it; like blindness, only not as drastic. And regarding mining, again I don't think it should be something that should be nixed completely during weakness. I could see a reduced carry weight, which would make sense to be physically weakened during weakness. If that's the case, and ST were to be reduced, that itself could be enough to affect the use of a gun and an additional detriment would be unnecessary. I think the only skills that should be completely unusable during weakness would be steal and FA.
And as far as the weakness as a result of a critical fail on a heal goes... It's a critical fail. You screwed up. Critically. So that's a bad thing.
Agreed. I remain unconvinced that this is not insane.

You're weakened, just left the "hospital" etc.
So you're still dizzy, fealing weak, etc, you can't think straight yet.
That should effect science and repair too.
Perhaps weakened should effect SPECIAL instead of skills.
But than we're back to square 1 as when it doesn't effect skills, it doesn't effect stealing which seems to be the point.
I disagree with stealing being the only skill being useless when weakened. That's nerving.
The problem with the critical failure of a doc is that someone might have used his doc skill on you and failed while doing so.
With the amount of grievers in this game, the creativity in finding new ways to grieve, I'm sure we'll see LK 1 docs appear.

1.If noticed by NPC guards, Failed steal results in a shoot on sight, in said "guarded" town for 15 minutes. Only on a re-entry.

2.A successfull steal, should make them unprotected to the person they robbed.

3.Only players "real" awareness will save them from being robbed or gunning hiim down b4 he gets away.

4.MSG that alerts player of failed steal should be in capitals and red.

5.Guards shouldlt loot a dead player. So said player has a chance ( a small chance, cuz everyone will swarm and try to get items) to get his stuff back.

Ox.

EDIT: But i must say, after playing for so long, You learn the tricks to avoid them. It wouldnt bother me, if it was left as is.

In a world where u cant show of ur car or whatever...... I mean ur hanging out with ur mates in NCR smokin cigarettes. and a bluesuiter walks up and says hi, then proceeds to steal ur car while u just smoke ur smoke and watch.....

1. I think the time should depend on your rep with the town. Half an hour for neutral, longer for worse, less for better. Assuming it will be harder to increase rep. Some kind of rep increasing quest by the leader of the town could be nice.
2. A successful steal is a successful steal. Meaning no protection is lost.
3. People should pay attention, agreed. Still things like the victims PE and the thief's perks should be taken into consideration as well. Like it is now. Thieves are more likely to fail on players with high PE.
4. No need to change the current situation. Sometimes guards notice a failed steal and the victim doesn't, sometimes it's the other way around and only the victim notices. That shouldn't change. As for the color of the guards message, keep it like it is now. Normal. As you said in point 3, people should pay attention. That goes for the messages too.
5. Disagree. Guards should always loot and shoot looters. It's their town. Loot should be an extra source of income for them to compensate for the risks of their jobs.

[Badger]

What's the point in this?
What should the thief compensate NCR for?

If a thief has to pay a fine at the guarded town they were caught at, there's several consequences:

1. They're forced to actually do something, rather than wait for a timeout to count down.
2. They're taking money out of the economy.
3. They're forced to be more selective - there's no point stealing someone's log pile as they may have to pay 100 caps (or whatever) for the privilege.
4. They can't bypass the penalty with a proxy - the character will owe the town money indefinitely. It doesn't matter if they switch characters for a while, when they come back Thief10 will still need to pay off his fines before he can operate in the NCR again.

To me that's better than making thieves log out/stand around/switch characters for 8 minutes.

[HertogJan]

If a thief has to pay a fine at the guarded town they were caught at, there's several consequences:

1. They're forced to actually do something, rather than wait for a timeout to count down.
2. They're taking money out of the economy.
3. They're forced to be more selective - there's no point stealing someone's log pile as they may have to pay 100 caps (or whatever) for the privilege.
4. They can't bypass the penalty with a proxy - the character will owe the town money indefinitely. It doesn't matter if they switch characters for a while, when they come back Thief10 will still need to pay off his fines before he can operate in the NCR again.

To me that's better than making thieves log out/stand around/switch characters for 8 minutes.

1. Some kind of quest to regain access and/or rep. would make sense. This doesn't.
2. Are they? What assumption do you base that upon? By far not every victim goes to town to trade. Some go there to craft, others just to chat or for whatever other reasons people like to stand on the NCR bazar. Even more, my thief has 3 CH in order to be able to trade useless stuff for useful stuff. I might steal stuff and trade while the victim wasn't planning on trading it. If I stealing from a VC citizen in NCR, which economy am I taking money out? Should I be punished by both factions?
3. A "fee" to be allowed to steal doesn't force thieves to be selective. It's server side grieving. Not allowing town access for a while is more likely forcing thieves to be selective. On top of that, some thieves are already selective.
4. I can't think of any bad action in this game which has indefinite consequences. I'm not in favor of introducing any. Again, this sounds like server side grieving.

As I said in an earlier reply, losing protection should result in not being allowed back into town for 30-60 minutes.
Players than have the choice to move on to another town or to relog.

[Solar]

A fee does nothing to stop the problem, they pay the fee and they're annoying people again.

Banning them from a town achieves basically the same thing as far as the town is concearned, but doesn't punish the thief for getting caught.

Weakened/FA stops them from annoying everyone in the town for the duration of the weakness and punishes the thief for failing too. It has no drawbacks other than you can cheat passed it, which is the case with most things. Only thing to do is to ban both characters when they are caught - and to begin checking these things as actively as we were before.

[avv]

I've noticed we have no thieves in Redding. We must be exploiting or something since they always get caught.

[Trokanis]

Making them be KoS in a town does far more than nothing.  If thieves actually have to pay for their crimes, they one may consider a different route, and two, certainly aren't going to be in Guarded towns til their rep drops back down, which should take the normal amount of time any rep change takes.  Yay an unguarded town is safe from thieves, probably because they really can't 'safely' bug players.

[Keldorn]

Making them be KoS in a town does far more than nothing.  If thieves actually have to pay for their crimes, they one may consider a different route, and two, certainly aren't going to be in Guarded towns til their rep drops back down, which should take the normal amount of time any rep change takes.  Yay an unguarded town is safe from thieves, probably because they really can't 'safely' bug players.

Get saved from a thief only to be robbed by PKers

[Solar]

Yes, being KoS achieves the same thing as the Weakened/Steal timeout thing. That what I meant, expect my sentence was garbled. The thing it doesn't do is stop the thief from going to another town and thus suffering no real slow down.

[Badger]

Yes, being KoS achieves the same thing as the Weakened/Steal timeout thing. That what I meant, expect my sentence was garbled. The thing it doesn't do is stop the thief from going to another town and thus suffering no real slow down.

Well first he has to respawn near the guarded town he died at. Then he has to travel to the next guarded town, and try his luck there. If he eventually finds someone worth stealing from, and is successful, he then has to travel back to his tent which is likely near the first town.

To me, that seems reasonable as well as an actual punishment - as well as a lot less artificial than 'you're too exhausted to steal'. If they want to keep stealing, they have to physically do something rather than stand around (which is what they'll most likely do - thief builds seem too specialised to be any good at anything else) . If it's not harsh enough, we bump up the fine and make it so they're KOS in all guarded towns.

I also don't understand why a timeout is considered a punishment but having to pay money isn't.

[TheGreenHand]

Well first he has to respawn near the guarded town he died at. Then he has to travel to the next guarded town, and try his luck there. If he eventually finds someone worth stealing from, and is successful, he then has to travel back to his tent which is likely near the first town.
To me, that seems reasonable as well as an actual punishment - as well as a lot less artificial than 'you're too exhausted to steal'.

Why is stealing while exhausted 'artificial' to you? Stealing involves dexterity. You don't see people coming out of the hospital still drugged up jumping on a high wire and performing a juggling routine.
And why is that not punishment enough? Being killed on sight for a limited time as well as a reasonable CD isn't enough? But I guess the title of the thread says how you feel about it.

If they want to keep stealing, they have to physically do something rather than stand around (which is what they'll most likely do - thief builds seem too specialised to be any good at anything else) .

Yes, thieves do require specialized builds, they already require a much higher skill than any crafter or combat character just to be decent. All the more reason why the penalties shouldn't be too severe.

If it's not harsh enough, we bump up the fine and make it so they're KOS in all guarded towns.
I also don't understand why a timeout is considered a punishment but having to pay money isn't.

Sometimes I have a hard time telling whether you're joking about all this or not. KOS in all guarded towns? So a thief can make a couple of steals every half hour, then it's completely useless everywhere? Stealing is not an exploit, it's a part of the game. If you want a game without thieves, there are plenty out there. I hate to use the cliche, but.... wastelands are harsh, and that's what makes this Fallout.
No place in this game should be 100% safe. No place in the world we live in today is 100% safe and these are a lot harsher conditions, which is what makes the game interesting. If you're trying to get rid of thieves, it's not going to happen. If you have something to offer which would make the current steal system more balanced, then do so. I would suggest starting a solo thief character just so you get the hang of it so you can see which parts of it need that balancing out.

[Solar]

I also don't understand why a timeout is considered a punishment but having to pay money isn't.

Because you can't pay your way past time. If the goal is to stop thieves coming back constantly, then making them pay some amount of caps does not achieve this, unless it makes it sufficiently worthless to steal at all. Which isn't the aim.

[5me0]

Heres a suggestion, if someone steals from you and fails, a red(as an example) timer appears over his head signifying that you ,and only you, can engage him without guards interfering. This timer is for your character (maybe clan ?) only, and it doesn't go away if he leaves and comes back. Maybe you can make it so that all players witnessing the steal attempt can engage as well, but even just personal would be a good step.

The timer should be something like 30-60 minutes, or something long enough to make sure that while stealing stays useable on others, while greatly decreasing the ability of some idiot trolling certain shops/areas/you for the fun of just f****** with people.