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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => General Game Discussion => Topic started by: DonGizmo on August 31, 2010, 08:02:43 pm
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What do you think about new wipe?
I cant see any evolutionary element there, i cant see any improvement of existing content, i cant see nothing new that i will have pleasure of.
Also i see contraty changes that are against the major ideas of developers.
1) Devs want more life in cities, because of this, they dont want (they said it) implement some features (visible bases), but they introduce slow traveling on world map. It is not problem for me, i have always one char for trade with 2 pathfinders and enough outdoor, and it will not be problem for gangs, because they will have soon or later cars, but it will be bigger problem for regular players. Trains does not arrives every few minutes and there is not connection among unguarded and other cities by caravans or what ever. And of course, you have to have money to travel using train: so if you die, and you dont have money in bank in that city, you have to go by your feet, 10 minutes long traveling??
I miss there some inteligent solution of this: pre-charge train (something like death in TLA). But it is your fault, that you are not close to players, that could enrich and balance idea you want to implement.
2) TC is not balanced for post wipe rush, so one gang, who will hold cities for few first hours, will get enough resources to buy best equip, ammo,.. and his chance will be better and better. And because you cant avoid militina in unguarded cities, it will be emty like it was before... I though we have already described problem of unguarded cities, but it looks like it was not understood. Only real change is 15 minutes instead of 25.
Also the reason of empty cities at north (what can single player do against one hunting rifle marker and 20 members of militia)?? Why did you dont change zones (enlagre it in cities), so half of TC defending will not be only camp the one possible room and wait for enemy attack. It is static, everybody knows it, except you.
3) There is not new PvE element that we want for at least 3 previous eras, so if we want to get new stuff, we can only craft it => no multiplayer element. On tla, there you can go farm basic stuff, but it is enough for PvE, for leveling.
4) PvP balance is ok IMO, i like the idea of drugs, ... but i think that Avengers build will rulez, but ok, better than uniform builds with 16 AP and 250 HP.
5) Colorizing changes .. it will not solve the problem, alliances will create one base.. But you underestimate peoples mind. We can remember nicks of our enemies. It will be also bigger problem for "ANTI PK" gangs, because we dont shoot on sight, and it will be hard for recognizing PK, enemies from friends or basic playesr which we dont shoot on sight.
You are argueing that this is betatest, but we dont have to test it in game and we know that this wont help. If you, developers, would be more open to existing community, you should save your time and work and avoid this useless changes.
I dont want to post negative only posts, positive thing is that we are already playing this game, nothing more or less is important. But if i compare it to TLA: new base with good idea, you can go with your mates to PvE (there is reason for it), .... .
I am so critical to you, but this wait for wipe was much longer than previous (almost half of a year) and changes, new ideas, features are minimal, ehm, there are not. But ok, i can accept that you dont have time that you can spend in this project, but why do you repeat same mistakes, even we are tolding that it will not work.
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Your post in a nutshell: "I am inpatient."
Nothing more to say then to wait for updates. ::)
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Your post in a nutshell: "I am inpatient."
Nothing more to say then to wait for updates. ::)
Well, i though that part of open betatesting is open feed back. If you dont need feedback, you dont have to do open betatest. I look on current game and see existing problems right now.
I.e. i have char with 2 pathfinders, so i know that this is not solution for basic players. Solution is somewhere else (my pre charge suggestions).. if you think that this is syndome of mental illness, what is syndrome of positve feedbacking? "Game is cool, go on"?
Id you read my post, you will see that was not need for new update to eliminate problems that community marked few months before. I know that something is more difficult to implement, but something is less, like change in the zone for TC, or only limited numbers of towns could be controled by gang..
I will use your logic: we need to test something, why not to test if limited cities controled by gangs would work and enrich/balance the game? Even if this TC will be disabled, we can test if more sharing of resources that provides cities could enrich PvP, gang society and could bring new gangs, even small ,to join existing ones?
No, thats heretic, we are whiners, we dont understand this game, its funny ,pathetic, nonses, againts our vision.. ehm..
I have to end with positive way (or you will lock this thread and ban me). I like every the star tup challgengs that every wipe brings. It is the best part of the era and i hope you could realize that continue in challenges during whole era is key to provide more fun and hold players online.
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they dont want (they said it) implement some features (visible bases),
Where, apart from me saying it was a good idea, did any Dev even comment on the idea?
You are argueing that this is betatest, but we dont have to test it in game and we know that this wont help. If you, developers, would be more open to existing community, you should save your time and work and avoid this useless changes.
Ironic given that:
1. Militia comes from a player idea, which was widely supported
2. Entire changes to TC were thought up, agreed by and implemented in a cbt with most PvP gangs consulted
We may turn Militia off in some places, but we've wasted a lot of time on TC already, take up one idea thats widely suggested only for a couple of weeks later that to be complained at and something else suggested. I'd expect domination mode and faction scenarios to get most attention in the coming weeks, with TC only having minor work.
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nice boat wanted to have militia in towns and u listened at the end of the wipe all the rogues were against it b/c they had only 5 players playing and couldnt kill militia off, this wipe is pointless, no change, i can only see nerf of the most nerfed gun in game, and boost all cheap shit that can be found everywhere in encounters, u said no more loot from encounters that would really change the game play no more free lsw for sneakers etc etc ...
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the best thing blue sneakers who risk nothing will loot stuff during TC if they get killed they will respawn 2 squares from the city and will be back there in no time looting again,
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the best thing blue sneakers who risk nothing will loot stuff during TC if they get killed they will respawn 2 squares from the city and will be back there in no time looting again,
this is a problem because you are mad you cannot illegally dual log alts to loot while your main walks back now??????? sry, tiny violin playing for TC players who cheat
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seems u know nothing about pvp just get lost
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Fonline stubbornly continues to be the game of alternative pg. Extreme slowness on the map? No problem! Thanks to multi-account people moving objects in their pg with 2 levels of pathfindig so they can sell or move items from one place to another quickly.
Nothing has been done to deter and limit the power build. So, no market between pg, no interactions between pg if not only to slay. So, the important thing is the power build and then, through their second, third, etc., pg supplying of weapons medication drugs, everything, the pg with power build.
Pk I still do not have any negative consequences in having chosen this path for their character. PK-Quaker for all. The important thing is to make frags and do not RPG, true?
If the above requirements for devs do not count, if they fallout means power build, multi-pg with which to get everything, so killing the economy and the social part between pg, and that pk can do what the fuck they want without penalty or negative consequences for their choice to take the road of outlaws, then for me, there is nothing of fallout in all this.
If it were only for the clash between factions led me to play fonline, then I would have gone to play in games 1000 times better. Type Counter Strike, Team Fortress, or how to MMO at Guild Wars.
If the devs do not understand all this, if they do not understand that fallout is a rpg and not a hack & slash, then I'm very sorry because the idea has great potential but badly made.
As one person told me: "Fonline not fallout but is the game of the Alternatives PGs" :(
Good Luck.
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I want to know why they made it where its One trader per person, its so fucking annoying and useless.
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I want to know why they made it where its One trader per person, its so fucking annoying and useless.
I don't think it is intentional, just copied mechanic from TLA. I hope.
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Nothing has been done to deter and limit the power build.
Sorry to be rude but.... you must be noob to say this.
If not you would know that all former power build got nerfed (fast shot trait, drugs, up small guns damge, etc...)
And blaming devs because a large part of players prefer pvp than anythingelse... meh wtf ?!
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Pk I still do not have any negative consequences in having chosen this path for their character. PK-Quaker for all. The important thing is to make frags and do not RPG, true?
Ehm, not quite true. I'm PK (well, when i can, sometimes i get owned), but its my role playing in RPG game. me and my friend are roleplaying a gang of raiders. suits well wasteland i believe.
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Hi there,
i wanted to say that im really happy about the wipe. Its not that i found any significant changes. But its cool that there are new free faction names now.
Only think i wonder about is why NPC Merchants only talk to one person at a time. Of course its kinda realistic but if this is a wanted effect than the devs should maybe try to get a queue for them working.
Right now everybody just stands near the NPC and clicks 5 times a second on him to make sure hes the next one.
Or is this a wanted effect too ? the guys that screams the loudest is the next in queue ? =)
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Ehm, not quite true. I'm PK (well, when i can, sometimes i get owned), but its my role playing in RPG game. me and my friend are roleplaying a gang of raiders. suits well wasteland i believe.
Yeah, but rolepaying a raiders still doesn't have any consequence, you still can enter every town, except if you belong to the Raider NPC faction.
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Sorry to be rude but.... you must be noob to say this.
If not you would know that all former power build got nerfed (fast shot trait, drugs, up small guns damge, etc...)
And blaming devs because a large part of players prefer pvp than anythingelse... meh wtf ?!
Sorry, but Fonline remain the "game of alternative pg" or of the pg with power build.
You know very well that these changes were made to balance the pvp. The fact remains that power builds persist, as you know very well that people create the main pg with a usual power build, and after with a second and third pg attorney to main pg weapons and drugs and what it needs.
All this kills the bud the creation of an economy based between pg and also the social side. Ah true, for you the only part that must be social is to slay factional rival...
Or do you think the social part of the pg should exist only between members of a faction? As trade?
If you deny this then you're lying to lie knowing.
Jump to review what kind fallout belongs. From that world and the world is an RPG.
I LOVE PVP. But in an RPG there are also rules for those who make the pk. Who takes the road of the bandit also bears a negative effect. Here, however, have nothing to lose and everything to gain. Why in the cities protected, they may enter and are not killed on sight? Because when pk encounter in patrols of the city protected, the patrols not kill them?
Why have not thought a system Karma well as the PK? Heck the game provides the Karma and if you do negative actions karma decreases. If you kill a child you're branded for life as a slayer of children with their consequences. If you become slaver same thing. If you make the pk instead? NOTHING! No penalty. Everything to gain and nothing to lose.
The problem is that you do not care anything about the RPG component, which is the heart of the saga of FALLOUT.
You are interested only to have the environment FALLOUT, throw in the toilet of his soul rpg, have factions and slay among yourselves.
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BRAVO!! :'( Bravo!
Raiders, Marauders, Slavers, Rogues, Bandits are all shot on sight by the NCR faction members, But players who go around and kill all the [law abiding] players and the most [Powerful] city in the waste doesn't try to help these people?
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Because those people must be known to the patrol - or they were attacked by them. They don't magically know they are evil-dooers by sight.
As for alts, the new system should discourage this, though it shouldn't be a massive problem now. By capping the top chars (in the drug nerf/fast shot) normal chars are more competitive.
Certainly isn't worth crying about it in every post you make :-\
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Omg cry cry and one more time cry we play few days and all is bad. Whiners. First play test then u can start talk about changes.
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actually, you can kill a wastelander in front of them (Hub Patrols) and they'll do squat, tested if it is like that on 5 people, I bet they're pissed off (the people..) :-\
Karmic balance, no fucking way, more inverted, the "Evil" fuckers get nice stuff while "Good" players suffer, pretty fucked up, eh?
(for some reason the game has become even more bland with bumping into lowbies and PK wannabees everywhere you have reasonably resourced encounters (Raw Materials))
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Sorry, but Fonline remain the "game of alternative pg" or of the pg with power build.
Are you paid for these posts?
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Because those people must be known to the patrol - or they were attacked by them. They don't magically know they are evil-dooers by sight.
As for alts, the new system should discourage this, though it shouldn't be a massive problem now. By capping the top chars (in the drug nerf/fast shot) normal chars are more competitive.
Certainly isn't worth crying about it in every post you make :-\
The new system not discourage nothing. The speech of Alts there all right. And is visible on the server. The story went on to tell those new.
what you say is false. Given the continued killings and raids the patrols have a description of the bandits. There is no point in climbing on mirrors and less excuses.
When you have a tail of straw, and want to continue with a system where the pk have much to gain, no penalty, and where you do not care anything about the RPG components, Which Is The Heart of the saga of Fallout but only interested to have among factions and slay yourselves, you was always ready to say that tears are the observations of others.
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Are you paid for these posts?
My heartfelt congratulations for your reply.
So should I assume that only those who donate have the right to criticize and only their criticism and their suggestions are taken into account?
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No, I meant all your posts seem like copy/pastes of the same sentences around "No, FOnline is a game for pg".
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Hey joshwa,
Can i ask you something ? Are you playing since you registered in this forum ? The 22 august 2010 ? (Please tell me no, cause elsway i will say again you are another fresh newbie speaking a lot with no experience)
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I like the idea of NCR faction people opening fire on someone who shoots another PC in a set encounter. If using similar loot mechanics as guards, it wouldn't really be worth exploiting. And might make being around the [good guys] a little nicer.
Because those people must be known to the patrol - or they were attacked by them. They don't magically know they are evil-dooers by sight.
As for alts, the new system should discourage this, though it shouldn't be a massive problem now. By capping the top chars (in the drug nerf/fast shot) normal chars are more competitive.
Certainly isn't worth crying about it in every post you make :-\
If you kill a child in the wasteland along with everyone around that child. How is it everyone knows you're a Child Killer?
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I have only one criticism to be moved to fonline. And that's what I always say. Everything else is done well.
I think my views and my reasons are clear. Fonline is a beautiful project. And I would be very sorry to see that finally people begin to take the PK because it has only advantages and no penalty, and Fonline exchange for a post-apocalyptic setting with Quake, and that what counts is only slaughtered between gangs. Then I really would like to see the creation of a market that only pg that interact, and maybe a social interaction that flourish in the city but also outside, and not only if you belong to a gang.
However, since I do not want to be a broken record and even less will bother the staff with the same words, not repeat anymore.
In the end it is up to staff to decide what and what not to do.
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The new system not discourage nothing.
The change to crafting hasn't happened yet. It will be to make crafting tier 2 + 3 stuff "unsafe". Hopefully resulting in actually having to defend yourself whilst doing so meaning pure crafting alts will just die.
Also Tier 3 is going, so profession requirements are lower, meaning you have to sacrifice less to be able to craft what you want.
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in what fantasy noir world would the guards care about what happens OUTSIDE their town, in a lawless land of guns and violence? none. a player roleplaying a NCR guard would not waste ammo on every thief or pk that enters NCR. besides guards are paid to do a job, without a system of laws it is up to the guards to determine who to shoot.
and the truth is, the guards just dont give a fuck about you. they'd rather see you get blown up so they can have a hand at nabbing your stuff. deny it all you want but if you're hoping for world of warcraft instakill-all-the-bad-guys guards, i think you should just leave this game now.
you probably complain about police response IRL because you don't understand the difference between preventative and reactionary force.
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actually the NCR (New Claifornia Republic) has laws, as hub has been annexed by it it should have similar laws... The wasteland is being "rebuilt" into something better, so yes, raider roleplayers should be beaten to the ground by the patrols...
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the raiders are NCR's enemy. they are killed on sight. these are criminals in the eyes of what little law NCR has. players in this faction cannot enter NCR. what more do you want? when you figure out a way for guards to stop crime before it happens, take it to RL because you will be a rich rich man. minority report ftw
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I was about to reply but gordulan was faster :P
in what fantasy noir world would the guards care about what happens OUTSIDE their town
In Fallout's world. There are enough canon sources to confirm that.
in a lawless land of guns and violence?
Outside Shady Sands for example, there isn't a lawless land, but the New California Republic state. Full of laws.
http://www.fo2238.fodev.net/wiki/New_California_Republic_state
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so then make the guards respond to a karma system, in and outside of NCR, buddy. are you happy with your own game or not? for christs sake take a stance on something would ya?
in the wasteland there is nothing but pure word of mouth and maybe radio comms to warn about murderers, thieves, looters etc. the current system reflects that. a change to the way it works now without a valid lore reason would simply be caving into the carebear demands for an easier game. if you want to make NCR guards badass and patrol the wastelands like a police force, go for it, but make sure they do it right, and aren't just another stupid encounter thrown together in 5 minutes for the players to farm.
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Don't worry.
Game is about to change.
FOnline is still in beta.
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Overall I like the game.
I am very new so I cant say "I dont like how things turned out after the wipe" or something similar.
But since people want to go into the lore lets just have a look at this (from the Wiki which is this games lore)
--Police forces
NCR's army is not supposed to keep peace inside the federation's towns, so each town have to make its own police force. However, the Rangers can make a good intervention force, if a serious battle happens somewhere. They are quick and well trained, as they are the elite force of the state. They are said to have numerous safehouses throughout the worldmap, and they use these to strike at slavers or outlaws anywhere[/b]
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It seems to me that the "Rangers" somehow get to know things that may not have witnesses.
Overall though from my brief experience.
It seems that since there is no penalty (ie a karma based system that identifies you as a villain regardless of if you attack PC's or NPCs (NCR caravans for example) there is no reason not to kill someone else in an instant you meet them. If nothing else that stops them from killing you.
Is that realistic in a post-apocalyptic world? Probably not because killing outside a computer game even in less civilised areas of the world is not something that comes to humans that easy. It is actually the main reason we have communities and a society... because of consience.
From a new player perspective its even worse... I have been unable to even collect the brahmin hides I need to make a tent.
I scoop shit, make some money to get a gun (to defend myself from critters) and go outside shady sands to find my brahmen. I kill a couple, then I stumble upon a wastelander (or he stumbled on me). Before I get to even say hi or run away, he shoots me I die.
Rince and repeat, this time I didnt go for a weapon, decided to hunt down brahmin with my bare fists. I collect a couple and then meet a friendly gang... they give me 3 hides and a gun and some bullets.
I keep hunting and I am seriously getting worried... what will happen if I meet a non-friendly pc?
I enter an encounter where there seems to me mauraders and brahmin and another wastelander and some NCR Caravan. well... he waits for ncr to kill the marauders, shoots me and comes over me while I am at -12. "Do you have any money? If yes I can FA you" - since steal shows you a person inventory almost immidiatetly I decide to almost tell the truth. So I reply "well I got some hides and a gun but no money". His responce "no worries I checked myself, bye bye"...
and shoots me.
The caravan off course does nothing.
Overall yes there may be " in reality" difficulty in explaining why NPCs would auto react to a Player kill (how did they find out since he killed everyone?) but then how can you say "well he has joined the Raiders and hence NCR guards attack him automatically" with a straigh face?
So killing a 1000 people does not get you a reputation. But joinin a gang automatically and magically becomes broadcasted over the face of the world...
PS.
Not complaining by the way! Okay I died and the games is extremely difficult at first for a new player (no alts, no friends etch) just answering to many of the previous posts about realism etch.
PS2.
My solution for the new player problem by the way would be if you allowed for buying the tent or at least part of the hides from many npc vendors. that way if I dont want to risk my hard work and time spent by continuing to venture out there while I have lets say 8-9 hides would be to simply buy the rest.
Off course I could buy from PC's but right now I dont think the PC based economy is thriving that much! (not to mention that its extremely not safe to approach people for trading as you will most likely get robbed!)
Another solution would be to allow at least the placement of a few items in the bank in the form of a safe or bank deposit box that holds 5-6 items.
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some words for you - you dont like it - dont play. Its not suitable for players that they can only cry when died ;s.
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He's not saying he doesn't like it, nor saying "IMPROVE THE GAME NOW" as some others do, but he reports some problems with some precise things, like reputation issues. So let him do his beta-tester job :)
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Your post in a nutshell: "I am inpatient."
Nothing more to say then to wait for updates. ::)
since when is waiting for 6 months the new impatient.maybe time is slower in a post apocalyptic realm lmao
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some words for you - you dont like it - dont play. Its not suitable for players that they can only cry when died ;s.
the game is in beta and as a new player - who btw didnt come on here just to swear - hes giving his honest opinion about his experiences and how he felt as a new player. It's great that we have dickbags like you who accept comments / criticism about the game.
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For what my word counts (and i think absolutely nothing) with the development and overall , i agree with Ymeogamaouas .
In the other case I don't agree what Tomowolf said " Its not suitable for players that they can only cry when died " .
In the start I barely kept my body vertical in this game .. most of the time I was on the floor looking the pkers getting all my stuff . Most of the time I Lol'd cuz they never find something . However , never shed a tear , For Christ sake , it's a game ... but the point is how many of us is gonna play this game before we get bored dieing all the time ? Luckily its not my case now , but what about all the new players ?
I don't know how many people play this game and i don't know what kind of goal the developers and game maker had in mind when they started this (beautiful ,at least for me) project , but if they think the same way as Tomowolf said before , it wont call more people .
However , I think its a hard work and they are trying to make this game more interesting .
We need to be patient and have fun . Even when sometimes it gets frustrating .
God bless Fallout and who created it ;D
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May be it's hard when you start this game, I was laying on the ground most of time too when started playing this game, but it was fun, because it was usually at Modoc, because of respawn point there, also there were alot bluesuiters and I had tendency to find any gun there everytime I come there (unfortunately usually without ammo and I was keeping that gun before few times already... so yes.. it had no ammo) but anyway it was fun, we were killing each other and I was seen Modoc as just arena of bluesuiters, until some bluesuiter come with grenades and kill all.
Anyway it's not that hard even if you start with 1 CH character (yes-yes, after wipe I created an alt with 3 CH to get 400 caps from quests and buy mentats, so my main character could get +15% to SG and 10mm pistol for free at begin, even 2 pistols... from alt also), 3 CH isn't neccessary, just don't go to unguarded towns and don't walk near (0-1.5 squares) guarded towns + use real time combat always, if you can't fight in RT, then exit from client and switch to TB when you're far away from towns and you're hunting there and you will die only from unlucky knock outs in a row.
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I kinda like the new wipe, it brings new chalenges and excitement, even though i dont like the new encounter system, its still fun as hell once you get used to it, and it brings what Nice_Boat once suggested "Ambushes" to the game which is great. To be honest, I haven't really got much griping for it atm, but I wish npcs had more caps, I never liked the fact someone could simply wipe every town of their caps, then make the rest of us wait another 6hours. :P
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There are good points in here. About difficulty and Pk'ing and all that. Something missed is that in this [GAME] there has to be a broad enough spectrum of stuff to fit the most types of players as possible. Now no game with ever, EVER get them all, some want it soo hardcore that you hit accept on character creation and you're already dead twice. Others want to play Carebears Online. There has to be a middle ground. Right now I know in other posts the Devs are talking about looking at the PC encounters around towns, and the 1 barter at a time thing. These would go a long way to returning some of the ability to enjoy this game at lower levels.
They have already reworked the NPC encounters based on some feedback, and are still looking at some of the others, mostly the uber deadly Marauders with SMG's at 100 paces, that seem to move like they're hyped up on Jet and Psycho.
The game still kicks new players who don't already have 6 members of a gang with them in the Teeth. But damn if they're not laying a decent foundation.
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Hey joshwa,
Can i ask you something ? Are you playing since you registered in this forum ? The 22 august 2010 ? (Please tell me no, cause elsway i will say again you are another fresh newbie speaking a lot with no experience)
I have already answered here: http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=8295.msg75937#msg75937
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The change to crafting hasn't happened yet. It will be to make crafting tier 2 + 3 stuff "unsafe". Hopefully resulting in actually having to defend yourself whilst doing so meaning pure crafting alts will just die.
Also Tier 3 is going, so profession requirements are lower, meaning you have to sacrifice less to be able to craft what you want.
will this change come with the next wipe or during the current era?
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i am assuming he means that players like myself will stand to make quite a good profit by killing the people at these crafting stations who travel without an entourage of gang members. sounds good to me, but im with the guy above me, will it be this wipe or next one? :(
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will this change come with the next wipe or during the current era?
It will be done when theres at least 1 way for each of PvE, faction sceanario and domination mode to get access. Else there would be a whole world of complaining that I just can't be bothered with :)
I would expect it to come in the current era, but its hard to nail down a firm timeframe given our volunteer nature.
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It will be done when theres at least 1 way for each of PvE, faction sceanario and domination mode to get access. Else there would be a whole world of complaining that I just can't be bothered with :)
I would expect it to come in the current era, but its hard to nail down a firm timeframe given our volunteer nature.
just wanted to know so I could plan out my character, anything else you can say about crafting changes, like if we'll still be able to have 4 professions at a time with there only being tier 1&2? I'm also really curious if the demo expert will see it's perception requirement reduced and whether or not we can expect the tier 3 stuff when the changes do come.
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Theres no plans on limiting the profession limit, tier 2 and 3 will be merged into tier 2 and blueprints will be used.