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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => General Game Discussion => Topic started by: Attero on April 10, 2010, 04:25:19 pm
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I will just add more guards .... mkay
(http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/7844/vccampatgrindispro.jpg)
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Cause you're NEVER *really* safe on the wasteland!
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Just make those laser turrets work.
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Use town preview. :)
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just give them 9999 hp or make them unkillable, guarded towns stayed in wasteland as guarded towns cause they "are" strong enough to resist some noobs attack.
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Use town preview. :)
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I have batter idea, maybe next time I will make Vault City guards counterattack and raid their base. You can call it roleplay event
thanks for the names
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I have batter idea, maybe next time I will make Vault City guards counterattack and raid their base. You can call it roleplay event
thanks for the names
Why are you so mad? You are acting like they are breaking some sort of rules.
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I'm not mad, I want to improve their role playing game experience. After all if you attack a powerful city, your actions should have consequences. Or not?
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Well if you take it from an RP perspective, VC didn't do much against the Raiders in Fallout 2, and the raiders were only brought down by the Chosen One.
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There was also no Ch0b0 Yura gang in Fallout 2, which suggest that they were destroyed by VC ;)
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I'm not mad, I want to improve their role playing game experience. After all if you attack a powerful city, your actions should have consequences. Or not?
- correct, "raiders" attacking powerful cities should be chased by their authorities, VC doesnt like raiders much at all : P
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Teleport Chosen One on level 55 in their base.
Or make it like game master in sessions -> VC reaction for that act of terror :P .
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How do i use town preview?
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hooray for Jovanka :d
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How do i use town preview?
If you come over the green circle you click on "Town map/preview" button in the lower right corner. Then you click on eye icon in upper triangle of town part.
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I'm not mad, I want to improve their role playing game experience. After all if you attack a powerful city, your actions should have consequences. Or not?
Oh god yes do it.
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There was also no Ch0b0 Yura gang in Fallout 2, which suggest that they were destroyed by VC ;)
By this logic, none of the players in the entire game exist in Fallout 2. I assume that everyone has died so you should have every base raided.
Why is it that the devs cannot make up their mind as to if guards should be invincible or not? Either make them really invincible or don't throw out threats when players actually kill them.
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Well if you take it from an RP perspective, VC didn't do much against the Raiders in Fallout 2, and the raiders were only brought down by the Chosen One.
Was it not a VC official (if not Linette) that asked the "Chosen One" to look for and get rid of raiders in Fallout 2?
I mean that is in fact their idea and the only reason the player has to do the job (and not a group of heavy armed guys) is cause it is a solo game.
But I dont know if Vault City has the actual fire power and skills to take out a raider's base anyway.
I've always seen this city and it's leaders as a sort of post nuke little Rome.
They're just vault dwellers with no sense of surviving that made their city pop up from nowhere after all.
Nonetheless they probably have the necessary power and wealth to pay mercenaries or give any valuable information they might have to the right people ;)
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In FO2 the raiders weren't really "raiders", more hired guns, to make VC unite with the ncr. The "Deputy" in VC asked the chosen one to find the raiders base in the mountains, because VC patrols weren't able to find it.
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yeah I remembered something like that too.
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I have batter idea, maybe next time I will make Vault City guards counterattack and raid their base. You can call it roleplay event
thanks for the names
Love it love it, there must be consequences for our actions. Even more inside the cities. You shouldn't be able to kill whoever guard you like whenever you please and live to tell the story.
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Hum, well, same as JovankaB said. Plus, what I do is 10k reputation drop per attacker, which seems logical.
Also, VC is not safe ; only inner part is safe. Due to a bug and the fact I'm not at home now, I was unable to make the city entrance totally safe (That's why it is not written in "Temporary Issues" thread).
And... Tell devs to make better guards =P
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i just wanted to point out problem but ofc its easier to ignroe it /add guards to make another NCR with guard every square...
i will just point out few things that can be done:
-add additional entry point
-add call for help signals - lets say on some radio channel you can hear call for help from cities needing help or/and when you enter city proximity you get warrning about about it being attacked
-add progresive guards - you can come attack the guarded city but you wont hold for too long
and its not for me - i wouldnt enter if i would have anythign to lose - its just about those people that forget about campers
(alsoo i dont like the fact that clearing the campers would require outnumbering them greatly as before you finish loading you have solid chances to be killed )
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For once i see that "PK" raid as innocent. Without the lasertowers VC is just another modoc thats just begging to get raided. And if there were some sort of rule or disclaimer that attacking guarded towns will get you in trouble, im sure it would not happen again.
Base raids sound nice tho, i for one would like to see regular base-raids instead of the TC-militia exploit thats going on right now..
Hmm like:
Bases are visible as default on the map. Every base would come with 2 seperate custom areas on the map called "Jamming towers". They make the base and the towers invisible in the sence, that it just blocks radio traffic, so if one would find the base, they could not call for reinforcements(in practice, the base is cloaked like now). These towers need to be regularly "fueled" by....something, like small cells/mfc or whatever. If they run out of energy, they appear on the map, and can be raided. They could be stumbled across, like if you encounter wastelanders on the map. The only way to destroy them are by explosives(no, not the rocketlauncher obviously). If one of the towers are destroyed, the other loses an instant amount of X energy, and consumes 4x amount, untill the first tower is taken back and repaired(repair skill, toolkit, some el. parts, metal parts, etc) If both towers are offline(destroyed or ran out of energy), the base appears on the map for everyone, and can be raided, for 24 hours. The faction may choose to protect the loot or just take it to safety. After the 24 hours, the 2 towers relocate automatically, and are fully loaded, thus the base becomes invisible again.
Add buildable autoturrets made by engineers(*wink* *wink* *cough* other thread with making crafters usefull by letting them build a robot, like a merc and turrets for base defense) and there you have it, fun and exciting PVP! No QQ by bluesuits for getting killed in TC! Well actually they would still be killed in unguarded towns but meh.
Thoughts? Should i post this to the suggestions instead or just drop it? Because personally, in TC you just rape the same poor towns over and over again..Its fine, and should be kept as a regular event, but this would bring PVP to a whole new level imo
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I see this like exploiting.
Yes, this is not as a whole RP game. But still it is "living" world and people should bear the consequences.
Maybe they are Diablo or Quake players, who see "Hey, it's not in rules, we can do it.", but I dont think, that this behaving is good for the community.
And the status of factions is broken. Everyone should be part of some faction. And everyone should have possibility to be part of even more faction at one time. Factions and subfactions. Whole world should be connected. Wanna be citizen of San Fran, communist and in the same time in player gang? Why the hell it isn't possible?
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NPC factions seem like the best way to add depth to the game. You join an NPC faction, you get a steady stream of repeatable quests. Delivery/Assassination/Clearing out a 'Dungeon'/Persuading/Rescue/etc. The more quests you do, the higher your standing in your faction, the more dangerous and rewarding quests you can do.
Even if in the beginning all the NPC factions have the same quests - Assassinate this guy opposing NCR expansion, whack this guy he owes the Wrights money, Take down this guy he's squatting in a farm on the outskirts of Modoc - it would still be a fun addition to the game. Especially if they could be assigned to a group of players.
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I have batter idea, maybe next time I will make Vault City guards counterattack and raid their base. You can call it roleplay event
Please do it. Wasteland is harsh for all.
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Please do it. Wasteland is harsh for all.
Then NPCs should just raid their base (if they find out their location somehow), slay everything on sight and then vanish. Because thats the only thing they can do to them right now...
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Then NPCs should just raid their base (if they find out their location somehow), slay everything on sight and then vanish. Because thats the only thing they can do to them right now...
Uhm... That's exactly what Jovanka wanted to do, no?
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NPC factions seem like the best way to add depth to the game. You join an NPC faction, you get a steady stream of repeatable quests. Delivery/Assassination/Clearing out a 'Dungeon'/Persuading/Rescue/etc. The more quests you do, the higher your standing in your faction, the more dangerous and rewarding quests you can do.
Even if in the beginning all the NPC factions have the same quests - Assassinate this guy opposing NCR expansion, whack this guy he owes the Wrights money, Take down this guy he's squatting in a farm on the outskirts of Modoc - it would still be a fun addition to the game. Especially if they could be assigned to a group of players.
aah NPC faction quests would be awesome, it also adds a reason to join a faction ;) And I guess not to make them too exploitable, make enemies in the quest non-lootable, maybe add a desk or something that contains some caps, becouse it would be pretty easy to get lots of weapons and stuff for free if they are fully lootable (NCR railroadgang, well its not exploitable, but if it where to be repeatable it would be an exploit).
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I'm really LOLed by your crying, people ;D Go on, continue increasing number of guards and their HP in guarded towns, and making them un-radeable, instead of making the game more realistic. Yeah.
P.S. FischiPiSti, your idea looks pretty interesting, but need a lot of corrections. You could try to post it to suggestions forum.
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I'm really LOLed by your crying, people ;D Go on, continue increasing number of guards and their HP in guarded towns, and making them un-radeable, instead of making the game more realistic. Yeah.
Hell, let's go for realism. Nobody can take more than a few slugs to the chest before dying, no matter how many centaurs he's shot in the eyes. I submit that would make the game infinitely more manly.
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So realism is that the main city resisting against Raiders has to be pillaged by a few level 21 players ? Well...
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So realism is that the main city resisting against Raiders has to be pillaged by a few level 21 players ? Well...
Remember that the whole city is represented only by a few NPCs. Fallout canon might say that they have some nasty technology and such but ingame its reflected just by that they are having doctor in the city that can teach you some stuff and they are considered lawful town. And when few 21 lvl players raid such town then its like 2 or 3 guards for one raider. So if like 30 NPCs can represent whole town then 10 players can represent large raid attacking the city borders. But of course NPC does not equal to player and they are like sitting ducks when it comes to gang vs guards combat.
This could be solved either by that NPCs would use level scaling pretty much the same way as players do (at least humanoid NPCs and non-bosses etc.) so guards in cities would equal to 21 lvl player. And since NPCs are stupid as hell then they have to be boosted through stats to balance the difference between them and players.
Another solution would be to make towns reflect what they are supposed to be more closely ingame. So instead of barely 30 npcs in the town we would have 100+ and of course larger maps, city districts etc...
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So that's what I am saying, guards need improvements. Also, cities NPC amount is quite the same as Fo2's one, and Fo2 was designed for single player. The idea of NPCs calling for backup is a good solution, too.
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The idea of NPCs calling for backup is a good solution, too.
I think that's in TLA. I remember dicking around in Klamath, punching my way through the Buckners, but then some leather jacketed Bounty Hunters appearing and blowing me away.
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Yes, but afaik it's quite unbalanced in TLA, (Backup in APAs in Modoc or something like that =O).
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We have similar as well, but it's deactivated right now, due to some mysterious 50s sci-fi-esque pseudo-science.
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I'm really LOLed by your crying, people ;D Go on, continue increasing number of guards and their HP in guarded towns, and making them un-radeable, instead of making the game more realistic. Yeah.
P.S. FischiPiSti, your idea looks pretty interesting, but need a lot of corrections. You could try to post it to suggestions forum.
k lets be realistic, you are fucked by vc turrets. Now lets get you realistic result in game, you shoot guards you are dead and your stuff is gone.
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Yes, but afaik it's quite unbalanced in TLA, (Backup in APAs in Modoc or something like that =O).
Hey, we've got CA, miniguns and laser rifles up there. It's a pretty small jump.
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We have similar as well, but it's deactivated right now, due to some mysterious 50s sci-fi-esque pseudo-science.
The "grey ones" captured your technology and are holding a gun to your head while writing this? :D ;)
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I will say, that maximum amount of HP for guards, shouldn't be more, than the most powerful mutant (450 HP). Not 9999, not again, please. Safe cities shouldn't be really totally safe, they only should be safer, than non-guarded.
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Yeah.
http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=2585.0
strikes back ;D :D
also ignore vederas in this thread, as he would like VC guards and patrols to be invincible to spread more bullshit about how powerful is VC (in fact, it always got raped by PK gangs :D and could be defended only by Solar/Izual spawning shitloads of additional guards with MINIGUNZ and all)
Also, Izual, is 21 lvl character considered as something bad? :) Umm it's interesting
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I will say, that maximum amount of HP for guards, shouldn't be more, than the most powerful mutant (450 HP). Not 9999, not again, please. Safe cities shouldn't be really totally safe, they only should be safer, than non-guarded.
I agree that safe cities shouldnt be 100% safe, that means, you can suicide bomb in these cities, you can burst from 1 hex and then die in these cities, not kill 4 guards when whole city has like 20-30 of them but others do not come, and then kill everyone and loot without any consequences.
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Yeah.
http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=2585.0
strikes back ;D :D
also ignore vederas in this thread, as he would like VC guards and patrols to be invincible to spread more bullshit about how powerful is VC (in fact, it always got raped by PK gangs :D and could be defended only by Solar/Izual spawning shitloads of additional guards with MINIGUNZ and all)
Also, Izual, is 21 lvl character considered as something bad? :) Umm it's interesting
same old same old, I guess some things never change, griefers always a griefer. same people tryin to get their kicks as always at the expense of everyone else, cause ya know this game was built just to soothe their incredible egos about how great they are and everyone else is wrong, congratulations. i guess the funny thing is that there's no actual point to killing npcs in town because youll never pick up anything off of them, so it just boils down to blatant douchebaggery and a drive to try and make the game unenjoyable to everyone else.
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I'm not mad, I want to improve their role playing game experience. After all if you attack a powerful city, your actions should have consequences. Or not?
dont call it a powerful guarded city if 6 guys can kill all of them, this is ur imagination or "roleplaying" or what?
u want to fight, cr8 a char and join a faction, gm abuse ...
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dont call it a powerful guarded city if 6 guys can kill all of them, this is ur imagination or "roleplaying" or what?
u want to fight, cr8 a char and join a faction, gm abuse ...
make turrets work and let 6 guys test cities power...
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Instead of make a huge number of guards, make them invincible or make cities unattackable, which only make the game more strict and lower the "freedom of act", I suggest to do something more "RPG style".
For example you can leave the inner part of Vault City super-protected (since it's a valuable and well-protected, with strong walls, turrets and so on) and leave the outer part more vulnerable. It must be protected with some guards (maybe more and stronger, cause must not be easy to get) but still attackable and harassable.
At the same time, attackers gain a great lose of reputation in the city and you can add something like a temporary mercenary quest when you gain reputation/caps if you kill members of the attacking gang or raid their base.
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As a lone trader who joined up with VC to have somewhere decently safe in the north to exchange goods at, this makes me even more nervous than usual. Sure, getting gunned down if you're careless is one thing, but entering the vault city map risking getting shot down at the gates before you even have a chance to react? I dunno, man. I dont have anyone to warn me when I enter with trade goods trying to reach the inner gates. Sounds like it just screws over even more of us small time players in the wastelands.
Making the turrets work sounds like a nifty counter-measure.
As long as there is some way to enter the city again soon after its been attacked, without it being blocked off entirely by very hostile players still patrolling over the corpses of the dead ex-guards.
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Making the turrets working would actually need a lot of work and isn't worth it, since it would only fix Vault City's problem, and not the Junktown's one nor SF's one, etc.
As I already said, the only valuable solution is to place more guards and above all to make them stronger.
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Why can't people use town preview? If you are too lazy to press an extra button then you deserve the consequences.
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Because in guarded cities you shouldn't have to be that much cautious.
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If you happen to die there because of a raid sometimes, then you should have been.
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A raid, yes. Four players ? Hell no.
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If they are more powerful than several guards there.. why not?
Also, all Vault City players should try to defend their hole against such bandits.. instead of coming to forum and starting another thread how bad PKers are.
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If they are more powerful than several guards there.. why not?
Yes. The problem is, at the moment it's not several guards but two guards with 150 hp. One or two bombs, and snap, you own the town. When guards will be balanced (like, somehow, in NCR), we will let the fights happen without any intervention.
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If they are more powerful than several guards there.. why not?
Also, all Vault City players should try to defend their hole against such bandits.. instead of coming to forum and starting another thread how bad PKers are.
oh boy arn't you right. 4 players with CA - LSW - Rocket launcher - sniper maybe and ~240 goes into town and starts to kill everyone. Lets kill them with our 10mm smg:s, shotguns, hunting rifles UNLESS you are strong and got CA, LSW and rocket launcher or sniper, but then you'r not stupid enough to enter the raided town with it.
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really though id still like an explanation as to why this behavior is necessary, it seems like nothing but on but grief fest. there is NO point to killing merchants and quest npc's in town other then to grief pve players, just because your 1 charisma mongoloid power build isnt capable of doing anything other then shooting stuff doesnt mean you should go and TRY to be jerks just for the sake of it. all in all it seems extremely immature and pointless.
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oh boy arn't you right. 4 players with CA - LSW - Rocket launcher - sniper maybe and ~240 goes into town and starts to kill everyone. Lets kill them with our 10mm smg:s, shotguns, hunting rifles UNLESS you are strong and got CA, LSW and rocket launcher or sniper, but then you'r not stupid enough to enter the raided town with it.
thats why al lthe hope in bombers ^^
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thats why al lthe hope in bombers ^^
haha, they should do a free distrobution of bombs in a raided city :P 70 suicidal bluesuits, each with 1 ticking bomb on them, charging on the attackers :D
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Yes. The problem is, at the moment it's not several guards but two guards with 150 hp. One or two bombs, and snap, you own the town. When guards will be balanced (like, somehow, in NCR), we will let the fights happen without any intervention.
what do u mean balanced? 1000 hp guards u call balanced? + spawn even more behind backs?
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Balanced =/= realistic.
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Lack of guard ai (compared to the average trained player) has to be compensated somehow. If it's additional 1000 guards or more hitpoints for single guards doesn't matter that much.
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Balanced =/= realistic.
total realism ingame != fun
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Lack of guard ai (compared to the average trained player) has to be compensated somehow. If it's additional 1000 guards or more hitpoints for single guards doesn't matter that much.
So... if guards will have that 1000 HP more I will be able to hide in building and pick them one by one or still there will be GM comming and yelling at me?
*sighs*
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Who said 1000hp and shitloads of guards ? Lexx and I are telling you that we precisely want something balanced.
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So... if guards will have that 1000 HP more I will be able to hide in building and pick them one by one or still there will be GM comming and yelling at me?
*sighs*
I think what they meant was better AI so you cant pick them off one by one/making them blump together in a big blop so you can just do some rocket launcher shots at them.
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When VC citizens are strong enough to PKing in mine with full equip, they must be strong enough to defend their city before other raiders.
just make guards little stronger and make their citizens to know that the city is attacked.
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Why are guards in Vault City, in front of Customs, dead? Who killed them? What's going on with Vedaras town? I thought, its the safest town in wasteland!
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WAIT! I GOT A SOLUTION!!!
(http://www.motivationalz.com/pictures/seriously.jpg) (http://www.motivationalz.com/pictures/seriously.jpg)
sorry, just had to troll this.
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All the guards are dead and no one can mine there, kinda stupid stopping low lvl players who are already limited in what they can do to stop mining / crafting.
Could you not decrease the guard respawn time or something.
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Don't you guess ?
Stupid russians Pk came, had fun at shooting everything in the place for a short moment and then leave.
Great work. Amazing.
When do the admins will decide to simply kick out these immature gameplay breakers from the server ?
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Don't you guess ?
Stupid russians Pk came, had fun at shooting everything in the place for a short moment and then leave.
Great work. Amazing.
When do the admins will decide to simply kick out these immature gameplay breakers from the server ?
From where you know that it was Russians... I've hear that it was Eskimos...
Nevah... unless you will describe strict rules that decide who is immature and should be kicked out...
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that wuz fun)
i was killed myself, but i can say that it was a great operation by AMP. nicely planned and carryed out firmly.
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"Great Operation" by AMP ?
Ehm ehm, against bluesuits ?
In PK scale they are on 1/10 8)
As i said. Be PK is easy way of play.
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But yes seriously, can you decrease the respawn for npc guards at guarded areas. Its already enough danger with their protection
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stop moanin)
thats just life. and such action worths mentioning in WasteMedia Newspaper.
Pure fun
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Fun for those who are killing everything maybe, but when you are low level player and have no way to fight back, and also you stop one our most important resources it is not fun at all.
I don't mind being killed in random encounters, stolen from, bombed, but I think there should be areas where people can mine at least basic stuff without getting shot at.
The guards are there for a reason, it just happens that they are pretty shit ai at the moment that can't compete with player gangs.
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As i said. Be PK is easy way of play.
I am damn sure you never played PK.
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I am damn sure you never played PK.
Yes, i dont need to by PK. Beacuse shooting everything on sight IS easy way.
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Yes, i dont need to by PK. Beacuse shooting everything on sight IS easy way.
Thats why you think so, you just never tryed. Its like I would say: bank robbering irl is very easy, you just need a gun and car, oh and btw I never tryed it!
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This time I've merged the threads. Next time I will simply remove.
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Thats why you think so, you just never tryed. Its like I would say: bank robbering irl is very easy, you just need a gun and car, oh and btw I never tryed it!
Bad example and not for this case. Be PK is just easier way of play. Try be Anti PK against almost all server.
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This time I've merged the threads. Next time I will simply remove.
I was talking about guards in the mine, not in the city.
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Herm, for the record, your guys killed me several times in Redding this afternoon, Hololashima. It doesn't really matter, but it's weird cause as you shoould know, we (orphans) don't take part in the Gangs war, and we are neutrals : http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=3304.0 (http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=3304.0).
Back to the topic : yeah, same old news, Wasteland is harsh, shit happens, Pks are everywhere, but there're also many weapons to defend yourself.
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Back to the topic : yeah, same old news, Wasteland is harsh, shit happens, Pks are everywhere, but there're also many weapons to defend yourself.
Wow pretty ignorant reply, you must expect a lot of newbies to take on several better geared players in a gang that can camp the spawn, also what is point in guards if people can just workaround them so easily with a little thought/alts.
Oh and not to forget for new players to get weapons they need materialswhich guess what they cannot get because the mine is camped.
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There are allready to much save places. If you want more save places i would suggest to play another game. Best way to learn, even for newbies is that there is no save place. I wondered that the NCR mining site wasnt raided before. Only 3 or 4 Guards, hell no problem. I can understand that some are pissed cause they were attacked there or in VC, but thats why i like this game.
There are enough MMOs out there that was destroyed by casual players who screamed the hole day cause the game is unfair, blabla. Learn to life with it.
This thread is like this vid, and watch till the end: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpcUxwpOQ_A&NR=1
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There are allready to much save places. If you want more save places i would suggest to play another game. Best way to learn, even for newbies is that there is no save place. I wondered that the NCR mining site wasnt raided before. Only 3 or 4 Guards, hell no problem. I can understand that some are pissed cause they were attacked there or in VC, but thats why i like this game.
There are enough MMOs out there that was destroyed by casual players who screamed the hole day cause the game is unfair, blabla. Learn to life with it.
This thread is like this vid, and watch till the end: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpcUxwpOQ_A&NR=1
I don't understand the video you posted, but I agree with your post in general, most of the time why players die is due to their carelessness and not taking enough precautions.
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For the guarded cities to get raided now and then is a good thing.
There is a great deal of risk involved.
Who Dares Wins.
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In this case only "precaution" you could take is to join some big gang that will help level you give you good gear and travel around with you.
It was fine dying but low level players not in these active gangs will spend a lot of time crafting for better gear and for ammo.
I think the problem is partially not enough proper pvp options other than TC.
Anyway it is fine to have a "harsh" game where you can lose all your stuff etc. but I think there needs to be more options for people levelling to do so without too much hassle as well as places for people to knock up their frags
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I was talking about guards in the mine, not in the city.
Both are the same guards, in guarded places.
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Yes but killing the guards for example in NCR is a whole lot harder than in a small mining site, so there is a difference.
Actually don't worry now, seems there are more guards there, thankyou very much to whoever did that.
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I can understand that people say it is no problem if some faction raid guarded places. What I don't see, however, is why it is impossible to raid faction bases. Seems to be kinda cheesy that you are able to attack close to everyone without risking a serious response.
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Man, I can understand you're bored, but come on, those PKs are not camping all the time, and it isn't worth it to kill some players just for basic ressources, they won't waste their ammo in this kind of operation everyday.
It doesn't mean I approuve this kind of behavior though.
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They raided VC and killed you to laugh at you, I'd do the same :D
btw maybe guards have some nice loot which inspire gangs to raid towns.
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you can't loot npcs in towns...