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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => General Game Discussion => Topic started by: ddog795 on April 18, 2013, 01:07:43 am

Title: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: ddog795 on April 18, 2013, 01:07:43 am
Chose
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: ddog795 on April 18, 2013, 01:22:31 am
the reason I want a wipe is because we want to bomb enclave(impossible now)
we want power armor back
we need less annoying nerfs
we need more newbies to play better than a pvp everywhere
fix bugs
make the game more fun(not my problem make a fun thing)
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Join the Unity on April 18, 2013, 01:55:49 am
I apologize in advance that my English is maybe bad.

I, as a big fan of the two original fallout, I must say that I'm a little disappointed. I am now playing for the past two weeks fOnline and miss some things like for example a real story with a end.Most of the quests are just boring travel. ::)
I really dont want to blame the Developers,they have also created a great concept.
But the game also only offers little opportunities for newcomers, in contrast to the people who have been since the beginning of this.

that's all I wanted to say right now,I hope you have appreciation.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: ddog795 on April 18, 2013, 01:59:26 am
I apologize in advance that my English is maybe bad.

I, as a big fan of the two original fallout, I must say that I'm a little disappointed. I am now playing for the past two weeks fOnline and miss some things like for example a real story with a end.Most of the quests are just boring travel. ::)
I really dont want to blame the Developers,they have also created a great concept.
But the game also only offers little opportunities for newcomers, in contrast to the people who have been since the beginning of this.

that's all I wanted to say right now,I hope you have appreciation.
I just love this
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Gimper on April 18, 2013, 03:01:38 am
I apologize in advance that my English is maybe bad.

I, as a big fan of the two original fallout, I must say that I'm a little disappointed. I am now playing for the past two weeks fOnline and miss some things like for example a real story with a end.Most of the quests are just boring travel. ::)
I really dont want to blame the Developers,they have also created a great concept.
But the game also only offers little opportunities for newcomers, in contrast to the people who have been since the beginning of this.

that's all I wanted to say right now,I hope you have appreciation.
Every one felt this way at one point. You want to know why? Because we were all newcomers at one point as well. Trust me, you'll get over it.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Join the Unity on April 18, 2013, 03:26:48 am
Every one felt this way at one point. You want to know why? Because we were all newcomers at one point as well. Trust me, you'll get over it.

perhaps you've misunderstood something, I'm already done with the game and share only what I have found out till now.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Gimper on April 18, 2013, 03:37:11 am
perhaps you've misunderstood something, I'm already done with the game and share only what I have found out till now.
Exactly how long did you play?
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: The Good Doctor on April 18, 2013, 04:08:47 am
the reason I want a wipe is because we want to bomb enclave(impossible now)
we want power armor back
...
No bombing enclave.
No PA.
You want PA, goto TLAmk2.

Taking out PA was a great decision on 2238's part, and PA should be kept as is.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: ddog795 on April 18, 2013, 04:47:29 am
No bombing enclave.
No PA.
You want PA, goto TLAmk2.

Taking out PA was a great decision on 2238's part, and PA should be kept as is.
what good does taking out pa does pa was a great change plus taking it out feels like it's stalker or something. pa was one of my favorite things in fallout it showed me that a true warrior gets the good stuff plus pa was not overpowered plus im not a pvper
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: MRtrader on April 18, 2013, 05:41:30 am
no wipe please in 2 weeks people will just have the uber hoards again a said in other threads.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Swinglinered on April 18, 2013, 08:57:46 am
No Wipe, I'm not done yet.

Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: xsarq on April 18, 2013, 08:59:05 am
Wipe but only with new stuff and things to do.
Server reset shoud land a big mark on game progress.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: JovankaB on April 18, 2013, 09:20:53 am
Wipe but only with new stuff and things to do.
Server reset shoud land a big mark on game progress.

New stuff and things to do are introduced gradually, when they are ready to put on public server.
Just merge all changelogs from the last year and you will see how much was done.
Although a lot of it was bug fixing, but this is exactly the result of the "huge changelog" approach.

Either you can have a huge update (and tons of bugs) once in a year or regular updates.
You can't have both.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Mike Crosser on April 18, 2013, 09:30:02 am
what good does taking out pa does pa was a great change plus taking it out feels like it's stalker or something. pa was one of my favorite things in fallout it showed me that a true warrior gets the good stuff plus pa was not overpowered plus im not a pvper
Power Armor was one of the most high tier equipment that anyone could get.And no one could except the vault dweller/chosen one 
And let me remind you
YOU ARE NOT THE CHOSEN ONE/VAULT DWELLER
You are not,and you never will be.Deal with it.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Evil Genius on April 18, 2013, 09:45:53 am
And hundreds brotherhood and enclave patrols in PA and APA you are meeting every day in encounters, so YES only Chosen One had this armor.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: T-888 on April 18, 2013, 09:56:46 am
YOU ARE NOT THE CHOSEN ONE/VAULT DWELLER
You are not,and you never will be.Deal with it.

The ability to acquire power armors would be just "Fallout" given appropriate rarity for the item, just like a lot of other Fallout content could be introduced in the game with the same principle which would add more variety to the game and create a positive effect.

I'm not the chosen one, but alright I'll say I'm from a large military organization in the wasteland which can potentially wage war with any other large, existing party, now don't tell me we couldn't acquire Power Armors.

The point is, players aren't any ordinary wastelanders either, your chosen one arguments only hurt the game and that's the reason why the game is stale, boring and empty. Just like Nice_Boat said on the other topic, the game soon will have 5 players which will be all hipster like and play true wasteland. ;D
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Edik on April 18, 2013, 10:06:11 am
wipe only after huge changelog
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: The Good Doctor on April 18, 2013, 10:10:19 am
New stuff and things to do are introduced gradually, when they are ready to put on public server.
Just merge all changelogs from the last year and you will see how much was done.
Although a lot of it was bug fixing, but this is exactly the result of the "huge changelog" approach.

Either you can have a huge update (and tons of bugs) once in a year or regular updates.
You can't have both.
A wipe is required for balancing issues, however.
I.E. People who were able to achieve millions of 5mm and Rockets from pickpocketing BoS still have those millions of 5mm and Rockets after the update.
But that is only one example.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: xsarq on April 18, 2013, 11:36:45 am
New stuff and things to do are introduced gradually, when they are ready to put on public server.
Just merge all changelogs from the last year and you will see how much was done.
Although a lot of it was bug fixing, but this is exactly the result of the "huge changelog" approach.

Either you can have a huge update (and tons of bugs) once in a year or regular updates.
You can't have both.

I want a cookie and i want eat one. Lets have regular updates + some big content being worked in secret and as a second priority. And when the time is right wipe + lunch this bigger update.

If there`s no new stuff, there won`t be anything to compensate for lossing our Characters and Stuff. It woud had negative effect on players feeling i think. At least i woud feel sorry for lossing my stuf :)

I think that pure wiping woud be bad idea.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: ddog795 on April 18, 2013, 12:08:02 pm
And hundreds brotherhood and enclave patrols in PA and APA you are meeting every day in encounters, so YES only Chosen One had this armor.
wtf if the chosen one is he only one that can get the armor then fallout is ruined plus PA aint op
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Mike Crosser on April 18, 2013, 12:10:50 pm
wtf if the chosen one is he only one that can get the armor then fallout is ruined plus PA aint op
Because you are just an ordinary wastelander.
If PA was available then everyone would have 50+ of them.
And pvp would start to look like warhammer 40k.
 
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: ddog795 on April 18, 2013, 12:19:10 pm
Because you are just an ordinary wastelander.
If PA was available then everyone would have 50+ of them.
And pvp would start to look like warhammer 40k.
so your saying the ncr cant get PA because there not the chosen one wrong if a player can rape them solo I bet ncr chould rape them if wanted and take the armor
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Mike Crosser on April 18, 2013, 12:22:22 pm
so your saying the ncr cant get PA because there not the chosen one wrong if a player can rape them solo I bet ncr chould rape them if wanted
"NCR can't get PA"<--- what? Who is ncr? What are you talking about?
Anyway,when everyone has PA it stops being rare.Let me remind you that PA was extremely rare back in F1/2 and this is the exact reason why we can not have them.It would be super retarded and non canon.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: ddog795 on April 18, 2013, 12:25:59 pm
"NCR can't get PA"<--- what? Who is ncr? What are you talking about?
Anyway,when everyone has PA it stops being rare.Let me remind you that PA was extremely rare back in F1/2 and this is the exact reason why we can not have them.It would be super retarded and non canon.
PA was rare in f1 and f2 because there was only 1 set of armor because we can load back and save in this we need more because replications which means your armor is gone forever to anyone who killed you
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: -Max Payne- on April 18, 2013, 12:28:27 pm
Wipe yes, why not...

But, if Gm's have no updates to do, wipe will not give more players, because players will come,test, and see that the game is the same that before the wipe..

As players we can not ask for a wipe, it's gm's choice, and work.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Dendito on April 18, 2013, 12:40:47 pm
"NCR can't get PA"<--- what? Who is ncr? What are you talking about?

i think he means in FNV.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Vile on April 18, 2013, 01:18:03 pm
(http://[size=14pt]And pvp would start to look like warhammer 40k.[/size])

Ohh 40k, sounds good !  Better then the crap we have now, how "falloutish" it might be.
Then I could finally roleplay a xenophobic, hatepreaching, full-armed pastor and shout anti-psalms against jovanka in NCR and other 40k shit . Suffer not the witch to live !


.... but wait I'm already doing that
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: xsarq on April 18, 2013, 01:21:09 pm

"An Open mind is like a tent with its guardian followed."
or
"Show me a fortress and I'll show you a base rape."
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: GeForce on April 18, 2013, 02:28:19 pm
Server will die out if wiped.

Server isn't as crowded as it was like 1-2 years ago.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Tomowolf on April 18, 2013, 03:52:12 pm
wipe only after huge changelog
Yes.
Blueprints getting rework, quests rework(more exp better loot, because grinding floaters is the only way to level up these days)
make crafting more cooler way to get money, because used guns are as good as those newly crafted, same with armors.
Bring back caravans to be farmed, change TC reward system, because noone needs 10000 ropes and 10000 flamer fuel.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Senocular on April 18, 2013, 04:18:33 pm
change TC reward system, because noone needs 10000 ropes and 10000 flamer fuel.
TC chest contents should depend on traders' activity in the particular city. No more ghost towns.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Alvarez on April 18, 2013, 04:34:42 pm
Game needs more repeatable quests and quests in general.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Tomowolf on April 18, 2013, 04:36:08 pm
TC chest contents should depend on traders' activity in the particular city. No more ghost towns.
Well, since traders want to buy only hi-tier items, which players are only willing to sell for caps, not trading for another item, this is crippled thinking, and it won't change anything, quests in cities and activities in cities are the mission for DEVs, not nerfing another thing, because all we will see in Northern Towns will be Apes starting TC and idling for reward.
If it depend on traders activity, there would be no reward = no players going to take cities with no rewards, and TC will get nerf aswell.
Game needs more repeatable quests and quests in general.
And more quests.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Furior on April 18, 2013, 04:41:28 pm
The faction who is controlling the city should take care of the city, not killing everything that moves. More players doing stuff in the city more reward to the faction controlling the city. I would like that.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Tomowolf on April 18, 2013, 04:44:28 pm
The faction who is controlling the city should take care of the city, not killing everything that moves. More players doing stuff in the city more reward to the faction controlling the city. I would like that.
Why they can't kill everyone in the city?
They're gangs, and it's post apo world, its up to gang what policy they gotta do, robbing people or helping them, but the first is easier, and more helpful for them.
The full PVP made that not viable in this game.
First more activities in town, then nerf TC, not the other way, or we gotta have 50 players waiting for another update for 2 years, and they'll die waiting.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Furior on April 18, 2013, 05:13:12 pm
Why they can't kill everyone in the city?
They're gangs, and it's post apo world, its up to gang what policy they gotta do, robbing people or helping them, but the first is easier, and more helpful for them.
The full PVP made that not viable in this game.
First more activities in town, then nerf TC, not the other way, or we gotta have 50 players waiting for another update for 2 years, and they'll die waiting.
Ive said nothing about making unable pvp in cities... I just say that a wealthier city (thats more activity) should give more wealth to the players who control the city. And in my opinion, killing players doesnt raise the activity in city, but thats just an opinion.
I also remember last season when the samartians took redding and didnt kill the bluesuits, that city was cool, it was like a 2nd ncr. Id like to see more tc factions doing something like that.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Tomowolf on April 18, 2013, 05:20:10 pm
Ive said nothing about making unable pvp in cities... I just say that a wealthier city (thats more activity) should give more wealth to the players who control the city. And in my opinion, killing players doesnt raise the activity in city, but thats just an opinion.
I also remember last season when the samartians took redding and didnt kill the bluesuits, that city was cool, it was like a 2nd ncr. Id like to see more tc factions doing something like that.
Then the whole TC system needs to be reworked aaand activites needs to be added, because standing in Redding or BH is same as standing in NCR, but those first gives you free reward.
The idea about players doing something in cities may kill the main PVP system there - TC, and only PK in New Reno would last.
As I said before, it isn't post-apo sims simulator, but a game, and you can do freely what you want in the game, raid the city, take rewards, fight with other gang for rewards, not for some noobs who will clean shit in city.
There are max 1 - 2 traders in city, so the rewards would be high as none...
And players have no opportunity to trade anything with those traders expect giving them 1000 healing powders for their drugs, so it's pretty simple why it wouldn't work in the first place.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Wichura on April 18, 2013, 05:25:07 pm
Ive said nothing about making unable pvp in cities... I just say that a wealthier city (thats more activity) should give more wealth to the players who control the city. And in my opinion, killing players doesnt raise the activity in city, but thats just an opinion.
I also remember last season when the samartians took redding and didnt kill the bluesuits, that city was cool, it was like a 2nd ncr. Id like to see more tc factions doing something like that.
Yeah, I remember those ideas in Redding and Broken Hills. They lasted for a few weeks, because some other ape packs whined about "zey are getting itanz with no fight zats unfari!!111" and then regular pew pew came again.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: JovankaB on April 18, 2013, 05:25:59 pm
As I said before, it isn't post-apo sims simulator, but a game, and you can do freely what you want in the game, raid the city, take rewards, fight with other gang for rewards, not for some noobs who will clean shit in city.

Just a matter of proper incentives.
If rewards will spawn only if someone will clean shit, shit will get cleaned.

I don't expect pr0 apes wanting to do it, so they probably would let any noob clean it for xp and the bit of caps.

The same could be for anything else - mining, trading, doing quests and so on.

Of course enemy gang could try to prevent cleaning shit.

Shit might be the answer, the whole game could revolve around it.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Tomowolf on April 18, 2013, 05:33:08 pm
Just a matter of proper incentives.
If rewards will spawn only if someone will clean shit, shit will get cleaned.

I don't expect pr0 apes wanting to do it, so they probably would let any noob clean it for xp and the bit of caps.
Make more NPCs trading various MISC stuff (like town inhabitans of Redding would have some ore/gold/materials etc),
And this is easy I guess, not some pr0 hardcode stuff.
Expect everything from the ape, if they got tons of stuff NOT from the TC, they would just kill for teh lulz that noob.

I've got nothing more to say about this, because imho it's not suitable idea for this game and this community.
Just a matter of proper incentives.
If rewards will spawn only if someone will clean shit, shit will get cleaned.
Of course enemy gang could try to prevent cleaning shit.
Shit might be the answer, the whole game could revolve around it.
;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Roachor on April 18, 2013, 06:10:38 pm
Ever get the feeling the project got hijacked by someone with fecalphelia?
Hmmm and all this talk of "wipe".
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: tanke plasma on April 18, 2013, 06:23:55 pm
Yes and back before wipe !
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: maszrum on April 18, 2013, 06:43:46 pm
i dont think that wipe would change something in this point, not now its way to late for that. after years of supporting 2238 we have enought. only some significant changes can bring old players back. what i mean by signifacnt changes ? i realize its not commercial projcet and 2238 developers dont need to explain anything to the community, but for fuck sake.. if you asking for donations at last try to interact with community what you created. tell us something about work in progress, plans. explain problems.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Dark. on April 18, 2013, 07:07:55 pm
Interaction between players and developers it's the only way to make this server rise again.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Mike Crosser on April 18, 2013, 07:09:50 pm
only some significant changes can bring old players back.
Why would we want old players back?
Most of them were assholes and whiners that exploited the shit out of everything.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Gimper on April 18, 2013, 07:10:00 pm
I know people don't want to admit this, but through the developers hard work and grinding, they finally got the server back to a state that a lot of us really enjoy playing. A wipe would ruin all that work, then everyone would just quit anyways. The developers see this and that's why they (hopefully) wont wipe the server. In my opinion, this session (after all updates) is comparable to the 2010 session.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Tomowolf on April 18, 2013, 07:15:56 pm
Why would we want old players back?
Most of them were assholes and whiners that exploited the shit out of everything.
Its beta, but we don't get any rewards for reporting exploits, so... guess why they were assholes and keep it for themselves, unlike there in other games there are rewards...
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: T-888 on April 18, 2013, 07:31:03 pm
Most of them were assholes and whiners that exploited the shit out of everything.

;D

I know people don't want to admit this, but through the developers hard work and grinding, they finally got the server back to a state that a lot of us really enjoy playing.

;D

No.

I'm reading and I have the hopeless feeling, shit is grim.

2238 is made by women for women.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Senocular on April 18, 2013, 07:32:17 pm
Why they can't kill everyone in the city?
They're gangs, and it's post apo world, its up to gang what policy they gotta do, robbing people or helping them, but the first is easier, and more helpful for them.
You mixed up opressing with killing everything that moves. Slaves aren't very profitable when they are dead, are they?
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Tomowolf on April 18, 2013, 07:35:27 pm
You mixed up opressing with killing everything that moves. Slaves aren't very profitable when they are dead, are they?
Kill slaver after he got paid by Metzger - profitt?
Isn't that since Den?
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: maszrum on April 18, 2013, 07:39:06 pm
Why would we want old players back?
Most of them were assholes and whiners that exploited the shit out of everything.

check how many people have accounts on this forum. emails are in database. what do you think its the easiest way to fill the server with players? whining ? maybe not without reason? most of us spnted a lot of time to support this projcet, not only by giving feedbacks, sharing expirneces, making sugestions and most importatn - we supported 2238 financially. what we get in return? missguided ideas and freatures whoe number is growing? with everyupdate.

its just simple sad when we see game that we spented lots of time and energy slowly diying and going to nowhere.

Quote
I know people don't want to admit this, but through the developers hard work and grinding, they finally got the server back to a state that a lot of us really enjoy playing. A wipe would ruin all that work, then everyone would just quit anyways. The developers see this and that's why they (hopefully) wont wipe the server. In my opinion, this session (after all updates) is comparable to the 2010 session

are you serious? point me at least 5 players who played in 2010 and they think current state is better then game in 2010.

 our community teampeak have few hundreds of accounts. of course some of them are secound accounts of our teammembers who are using ts in work/school  and some belngs to peopel who are not playing fonline but still we serval dozens of fonline players hanging around less or more often, not only sot/tnb members, people who are not onaly playing pvp/tc, trading or friends of our members.. doesnt matter.

i know opinion about 2238 of most of them. and trust me, no one want to back playing current version of fonline2238. only signifcant changes can bring more players back. maybe dev team dont want to have more people ? maybe they are happy to have 40 players online.. who knows.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Levin on April 18, 2013, 07:54:13 pm
Current season comparable to 2010 season? I can't stop laughing  ;D
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: LeMark on April 18, 2013, 09:13:55 pm
I am not for a wipe. I do not thing (my impression and what I heard from other TTTLA), that many old player will have no motivation to start again (we already did it many time) if we don’t have a shit load of new interesting feature.  Must important thing, if you wipe and we got a new server with shit load of abuse at the start who destroy the balance at the start, and feature who just don’t work, I think it will be the finishing move to kick us out once for all.

I have to say last wipe break all my hope in any wipe, new TC who just suck, blue suit sneak with smg who kill in 1 shot power build in full stuff, npc who give us infinite number of caps, personal ares chest in base and a shit load of other bad feature and easy exploit.

Right now we got infinite number of stuff, shit load of build to enjoy, I don’t think it can be better.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Cheesey Dean on April 18, 2013, 09:26:30 pm
I know people don't want to admit this, but through the developers hard work and grinding, they finally got the server back to a state that a lot of us really enjoy playing. A wipe would ruin all that work, then everyone would just quit anyways. The developers see this and that's why they (hopefully) wont wipe the server. In my opinion, this session (after all updates) is comparable to the 2010 session.
Everyone already *has* quit. TLA is the future. In TLA, shit is actually viable. PVP isn't ONLY laser snipers or minigunners. It's made me realize how shit a game 2238 is.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: ddog795 on April 18, 2013, 09:28:08 pm
Now im not trying to start a war between wipe or not but  I wanted a wipe that the devs take time and fix the game add things change things delete things but if I get all this nonsense about 2010 or blah I will close this topic if this goes to far
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Tomowolf on April 18, 2013, 09:31:46 pm
Now im not trying to start a war between wipe or not but  I wanted a wipe that the devs take time and fix the game add things change things delete things but if I get all this nonsense about 2010 or blah I will close this topic if this goes to far
We got a secret mod here  ;D.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Haraldx on April 18, 2013, 11:32:10 pm
Quote
wipe and fix the game
Oh it all sounds fluffy, wonderful and all kinds of great... The truth is that it just doesn't work like that. It doesn't. Wipe does not equal awesomeness.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: S.T.A.L.K.E.R on April 19, 2013, 06:09:40 am
Yeaaahh...wipe this game, will finally get me something to play to in this game
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Sarakin on April 19, 2013, 02:18:50 pm
are you serious? point me at least 5 players who played in 2010 and they think current state is better then game in 2010.
Frankly, the game is better than it was before. But its such a marginal shift towards a quality MMO, that it doesnt need mentioning. Basically, only perk rework is something new, interesting, other game aspects are so neglected.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: tanke plasma on April 20, 2013, 12:35:45 am
Yes need wipe game is dead
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Dr Pokey on April 23, 2013, 05:34:41 am
I can honestly say I played back in 2010.  The game was better.  I came back this March to try again.  Here is what's wrong...

1. No caps - run all over world map trying to find the right guy to buy your loot.
2. Blueprints - Really?  How many alts do I really need to make to play this game?
3. Advanced workbench - Why is this necessary?  Was not around back in the day and things were fun.
4. Aggressive Brahmin - This is a minor annoyance, but I'm not sure what this added to the game.
5. Needing a Perk to get Pelts - Minor annoyance, not sure why this is necessary either. 

What's weird is that in the old days the devs wanted to reduce the use of alts, now they encourage it.

Get rid of this stuff and keep the improvements (Tent Management especially), THEN wipe the server.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: JacksSmirkingRevenge on April 23, 2013, 07:37:38 am
I can honestly say I played back in 2010.  The game was better.  I came back this March to try again.  Here is what's wrong...

1. No caps - run all over world map trying to find the right guy to buy your loot.
2. Blueprints - Really?  How many alts do I really need to make to play this game?
3. Advanced workbench - Why is this necessary?  Was not around back in the day and things were fun.
4. Aggressive Brahmin - This is a minor annoyance, but I'm not sure what this added to the game.
5. Needing a Perk to get Pelts - Minor annoyance, not sure why this is necessary either. 

What's weird is that in the old days the devs wanted to reduce the use of alts, now they encourage it.

Get rid of this stuff and keep the improvements (Tent Management especially), THEN wipe the server.


Agreed, 100%
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: greenthumb on April 23, 2013, 09:36:42 am
I can honestly say I played back in 2010.  The game was better.  I came back this March to try again.  Here is what's wrong...

1. No caps - run all over world map trying to find the right guy to buy your loot.
2. Blueprints - Really?  How many alts do I really need to make to play this game?
3. Advanced workbench - Why is this necessary?  Was not around back in the day and things were fun.
4. Aggressive Brahmin - This is a minor annoyance, but I'm not sure what this added to the game.
5. Needing a Perk to get Pelts - Minor annoyance, not sure why this is necessary either. 

What's weird is that in the old days the devs wanted to reduce the use of alts, now they encourage it.

Get rid of this stuff and keep the improvements (Tent Management especially), THEN wipe the server.
1.Caps are easily obtainable via quests, so please try explore the game before you ll whine about its features.
2.I never searched for a single BP, except those found in ares, but still i got multiple copies of all of them... REALY
3. AWBs are on right places, the easiest one in mariposa, force players to interaction most, but there are still other AWBs which are 95% safe.
4.its a feature, it does not make game more fun, but its not any issue, definitely not if you play game longer than till level 3...
5.Need a perk for skinning is reasonable, you had to get perk in f1 aswell as in f2 and also in many other fonline servers, everything you point out here, makes me feel you simply dislike way the game is made.

Suggestion, put an effort into game and enjoy result, if you cant... then you should not bother yourself playing game.

Also i would like to mention that people who do NOT support "wipe soon" are still here. I believe iam not alone. And i basicaly refuse to counteract every wipe whiner in every thread, so it might look like this Wipe is  needed and wanted by players, but its not needed and most likely not even wanted, just those who want wipe are loud, thats all.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: smegheadcro on April 23, 2013, 11:42:02 am
how many people are on average online? haven't played in years,was thinking of coming back
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: DeputyDope on April 23, 2013, 11:47:20 am
3. AWBs are on right places, the easiest one in mariposa, force players to interaction most, but there are still other AWBs which are 95% safe.


they are safe because:
- people don't like wasting time to craft.
- the server is mostly empty.

1.Caps are easily obtainable via quests, so please try explore the game before you ll whine about its features.


he wasn't talking only about caps, but also the traders that mostly don't accept anything .

Also i would like to mention that people who do NOT support "wipe soon" are still here. I believe iam not alone. And i basicaly refuse to counteract every wipe whiner in every thread, so it might look like this Wipe is  needed and wanted by players, but its not needed and most likely not even wanted, just those who want wipe are loud, thats all.

if wipe brings more people and/or decent updates, then i'll support it as long as i can log into the game without having to search for players for hours without finding them. the only reason YOU don't support it is because you can travel the map safely and kill all the NPCs and mine all the stuff you want without encountering those EVIL pk's.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: xsarq on April 23, 2013, 11:54:59 am
how many people are on average online? haven't played in years,was thinking of coming back

50 on workdays, 100 on weekends.
Small amount but most of this people is active in the gameplay so you can meet them in other plays than NCR.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: wrednypiwosz on April 23, 2013, 01:06:25 pm
50 on workdays, 100 on weekends.
ofc. http://www.riget.info/fonline/playerStats.php?r=month&s=1366689496&ts=0&ar=0&step=12
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Mike Crosser on April 23, 2013, 01:09:33 pm
ofc. http://www.riget.info/fonline/playerStats.php?r=month&s=1366689496&ts=0&ar=0&step=12
Way to tell him he is wrong by proving that he is right ::)
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: PLAYB0Y on April 23, 2013, 01:23:29 pm
Let's wipe this madness !!!
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Levin on April 23, 2013, 04:12:49 pm
50 on workdays, 100 on weekends.

100 on weekends? When, where, what? ~40/50 monday - friday, ~60 weekend. Only noobs play.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: xsarq on April 23, 2013, 04:30:58 pm
Sigh yes nobody plays at middle of the night and nobody plays in the early morning. Thats why avarage numbers are so low. But take a look at number of persons in good, prime time.


Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Mike Crosser on April 23, 2013, 05:53:15 pm
I actually like the fact that most of the "philosophers" left.Now most people can enjoy the game without having some random bloke spout out crazy shit in words that do not exist about how the server is bad and we should stop playing it.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Swiatowid on April 24, 2013, 02:39:01 pm
i vote about WIPEdevs brains they screwed good 4fun server
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Lotus_ on April 25, 2013, 10:48:21 pm
yes yes wipe the game :D i agree

im not whineing im just saying that mayeb a wipe would be good, not just because it will bring players back, but because certain features have been ruined, if you wipe the server start fresh add the good updates into the game and delete the bad ones the bad features of the game, and also add new ones and if players dont like it take a vote, personal i think that before you add something to the game or delete something you should make a vote system and see who wants it and what vote is the highest this way you are putting gamers interest into consideration, maybe stop the whineing threads, if you wipe the game gamers will then realise that you are trying to make things better for the game and it will bring them back, once players are back you can then start with the updates add certain things with vote system . this game perssonal needs a big wipe, there isnt many people playing anymore and you have other servers now to compete with and you need to do something fast before its too late
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Haraldx on April 26, 2013, 09:45:41 am
a wipe would be good, not just because it will bring players back, but because certain features have been ruined, if you wipe the server start fresh add the good updates into the game and delete the bad ones the bad features of the game
(http://blog.tmcnet.com/blog/rich-tehrani/uploads/paper-clip.jpg)
Did you know? Updates have to be developed first!
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: zuhardu on April 26, 2013, 02:41:56 pm
I use to love this game so much. I played it for 3 years, I was doing sesions of 16-18 hours per day. It used to be hard and unforgiving but there were always a reward, a thrill and some fun. Now its just plain stupid. All these changes seem to be made by an autistic developer. Who in their right mind would do all these stupid changes? I mean, really? Alt for trading, alt for mining, alt for traveling, alt for crafting, alt for finding lockers(wtf!!!), alt for stealing, alt for sneaking, alt for parties, alt for quests, alt for wipeing your ass. What is wrong with you? Do you even understand the meaning of fun? After all this the developers encourage us to play with one char!?!?!? You see, this doesn't make the game harder, you don't chalenge the player in any way, you just waste his time, transforming simple tasks like selling something into hard labour. It's like there are two teams in this game, one trying to improve it introducing new content and one trying to piss people off by forcing the player to create a new alt for every new feature or to lose more and more of his time with doing something that should be as simple as a few mouse clicks. I was screaming like stupid when you "introduced" all the new combat perks, telling you you'll kill snipers while the bg lovers told me that snipers are op. Let me break this down for you, they were never op, the bg lovers were used to always own snipers/cripplers and when they got balanced they started crying so you improved bg once more. What do you have now? Only one build for pvp, exaclly what I told you that will happend. After a while you made all pvpers leave, thinking that all the NCR wankers will keep you game alive. Of course not, because all those pvp apes you all hated so much were playing the game 10 times more than any of your precious rpgers. Because to get better you always need to practice, to find new builds, to experiment and to improve. To be a roleplayer in FOnline all you need to do is to kill scorpions and vote for mayors. EVERYTHING you need to do now takes so much time, takes a different alt and THERE IS NO FUN ANYMORE. With the game that you had 3 years ago, with a few balancing issues and bugs fixed, and the content you now have, this game would be brilliant. Instead is just a dieing game that gets content more often but there is nobody left to play it because you chased away all your players by always chosing the oposite of what they want. You killed something that was suposed to be great and what is so sad is that you were so close. All the players i know didn't left because of the game but because of the bad choices made by developers. You can keep lieng to yourselves but you have 10 players that still play the game now because you never listen to players. I meet some great people here. Very intelligent guys with great suggestions. Nobody was listening to them. Instead you listen to people like Greenthumb and others like him who have problems naming the planet they are on. Yes, I rage and I am doing it in a bad and hard to follow manner but that is alright, because even if I would write the perfect post I know nobody will hear me. They will just make this game worse and worse until not even the dumb will log in anymore. You failed. But that is not a problem, everybody can fail while trying to acomplish something. The problem is you failed while we were all screaming not to go that way because that will happend. Your ignorance and conceit brought you to this point. A dead, empty game that is giving it's last breath. You destroyed everyting that was fun about this game and improved all the annoyng parts.

Wipe or no wipe, FOnline 2238 is dead! All the good players are gone playing games that are made for players and not infatuated developers with god complexes. I just hope that someone outhere will revive the Fallout we all loved so much. A Fallot where pvp and pve go hand in hand and all the players get what they want. And i know it is posible because I’ve seen it. It was not perfect but it was on a good route until someone decided for everybody that it was not what we wanted.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Haraldx on April 26, 2013, 02:54:12 pm
My hat off to you, mate.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: JovankaB on April 26, 2013, 03:57:38 pm
...

Cool rant. Now let's get from bullshit to specifics.

Which of the recent changes (let's say, in the last year) increased the need for alts?
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: davrot on April 26, 2013, 04:11:46 pm
Cool rant. Now let's get from bullshit to specifics.

Which of the recent changes (let's say, in the last year) increased the need for alts?
None whatsoever. The game is perfectly playable with a single character giving ol' Bessie the reach around when you're at the brahmin pen.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Senocular on April 26, 2013, 04:15:16 pm
None whatsoever. The game is perfectly playable with a single character giving ol' Bessie the reach around when you're at the brahmin pen.
This. I am actually doing quite well in PvP with my lockpick alt. ;)
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: JovankaB on April 26, 2013, 04:21:20 pm
I will take the lack of upfront answer and hiding behind sarcasm as
"yes, you devs did not increase the need for alts in the last year".

Next question. Would you agree that the idler feature and removing profession limit,
reduced the need for alts, respectively in PvP and crafting? Please answer. If in your
opinion it didn't, please say why.

Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Kilgore on April 26, 2013, 04:27:12 pm
Sure, Idler "feature" reduced the need for any characters to zero.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: A concerned wastelander on April 26, 2013, 04:32:22 pm
I will take the lack of upfront answer and hiding behind sarcasm as
"yes, you devs did not increase the need for alts in the last year".

Next question. Would you agree that the idler feature and removing profession limit,
reduced the need for alts, respectively in PvP and crafting? Please answer. If in your
opinion it didn't, please say why.

I would agree, but also, for exemple, why do we need to use an alt with high IQ to be able to get gear at hinkley?
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Nice_Boat on April 26, 2013, 05:08:27 pm
I would agree, but also, for exemple, why do we need to use an alt with high IQ to be able to get gear at hinkley?

(http://www.feistees.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/rdsxy.jpg)

... I'm pretty sure it was something like that.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: JovankaB on April 26, 2013, 05:28:07 pm
I would agree, but also, for exemple, why do we need to use an alt with high IQ to be able to get gear at hinkley?

I guess long time ago someone thought it's a good idea. But this is old stuff (from 2010),
if we change this as well, it will just add one more point to my argument that we reduce
alt requirements (and I think generally make the game better) not the other way around :P

Edit: After the next update IN requirement in Hinkley will be gone
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Mike Crosser on April 26, 2013, 08:29:26 pm
I guess long time ago someone thought it's a good idea. But this is old stuff (from 2010),
if we change this as well, it will just add one more point to my argument that we reduce
alt requirements (and I think generally make the game better) not the other way around :P

Edit: After the next update IN requirement in Hinkley will be gone
The lack of certain stats can cripple a character for good.
Int for one
Take an example from the first 2 fallouts,your character was still able to do quests,talk to npcs,barter(more or less) and do certain activities that other characters couldn't (IE talk to torr).
Charisma:
Now the Devs of 2238 seem to think that charisma is all about good looks this is very wrong(it is connected to it,im not denying that,just that its overstated in the game).
NPCs usually overreact to low charisma and once again cripple him.
Make it so that he can still talk to NPCs and take quests just get smaller (or maybe in some cases bigger) rewards,just change a few dialog replies and options so it looks legit.

The awareness perk is a must have for every alt,this kinda bothers me.
Now I understand that in most cases it's a fair trade off but i'd honestly prefer it to require 5 PE instead of 6
(yes i know about the skill req too,but i'm not here to talk about that)

Crafting is a pain and gives less reward then simple PvE farming.

I can go on and on with this but my clicky finger hurts.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Alvarez on April 26, 2013, 08:39:58 pm
I can go on and on with this but my clicky finger hurts.

Map the Z/Y key as mouse button.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: greenthumb on April 27, 2013, 01:48:17 am
iam glad you shared your feelings and emotions. Sometimes its realy necessary to release them, no matter what. But then people usualy calm down and overview things with detachment.
If you would be able to name wrong things, i would gladly read next textwall with a content.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Crovax on April 27, 2013, 02:36:01 am
Cool rant. Now let's get from bullshit to specifics.

Which of the recent changes (let's say, in the last year) increased the need for alts?

He did mention  lot of things you need alts for. What about blueprints? Why do we need them in the game? Why do we have to have a lockpicker to obtain them?

I don't think we need to narrow it down to recent changes there are plenty of old ones that could be discussed and hopefully fixed/removed like the failed AC system that resulted in a lost trait for TB players which now seems rendered pretty useless.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Bulldog on April 27, 2013, 08:37:48 am
Fucking wipe it before it's too late.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: DeputyDope on April 27, 2013, 09:35:23 am
iam glad you shared your feelings and emotions. Sometimes its realy necessary to release them, no matter what. But then people usualy calm down and overview things with detachment.
If you would be able to name wrong things, i would gladly read next textwall with a content.

the wrong things have been written a crapload of times before and they were also written in zuhardu's posts, but you probably skipped first year of school, namely the reading classes.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: C.H.A.R.L.I.E on April 27, 2013, 09:59:38 am

I think the game should have been wiped after the stealing \ mining update. Because it changed alot of things and some characters aren't so useful anymore.

Anyway, Jovanka said in another thread that blueprints will have to be fixed before any wipe would happen.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: greenthumb on April 27, 2013, 10:22:23 am
Well maybe iam just dumb or ignorant. But could anybody try to explain me what would wipe change for:

A/Newcomers
B/PvP players
C/Overall server situation

Thanks in advance
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Mayck on April 27, 2013, 10:24:46 am
Well maybe iam just dumb or ignorant. But could anybody try to explain me what would wipe change for:

A/Newcomers
B/PvP players
C/Overall server situation

Thanks in advance
The arms race starts all over again...

There are still things that need to be finished, nerfed, buffed before we can do wipe.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: greenthumb on April 27, 2013, 10:58:01 am
The arms race starts all over again...

There are still things that need to be finished, nerfed, buffed before we can do wipe.
A/Wipe would make all players  become newcomers, so it might have some value for these, but in current situation newcomers arent distracted from game by any overarmed apes too. Only missing is PC interaction, becouse of lack of players. But whats the real reason of they absence? I have to say, as first its just TLAMK2, then its stupid rumours,gossips and whinings spread all over community, most of them based on another stupid rumours, gossips or whinings.

B/I believe its a bad idea for PvPers to wipe, it will delete all their alts and stuff. They will be forced to farm/craft/level all of them again. I though its smthing what would PVPers gladly prevent. Am i wrong? How does arms race influence individual town controls? Since all PVP stuff is available for PVPers (in their bases right now),in case of wipe it would be like a week to gather all stuff again, but whats the major diffrence? Do PVP apes desire to have 1 week of PVE fun before doing PVP again? Seems i though wrong again, PVPers dont like TC itself but they love PVE actualy, at least they need it by time to time.

C/I admit wipe would might increase number of players slightly.But why people are not playing right now, but they would play if just wipe would happen??? Nothing would change, just history of your gaming has to be deleted to be able continue playing again? Another mystery for me.

I didnt find a point for restarting arms race again, i see only deficit for anybody who used to play. No funnier TC, No more helpful situation for newcomers, Not easier farming/crafting/whatever, just instant loose of what you made to be able have fun, So why we need restart arms race once we are all well armed and looking for fight?



Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: DeputyDope on April 27, 2013, 11:07:50 am
I didnt find a point for restarting arms race again, i see only deficit for anybody who used to play. No funnier TC, No more helpful situation for newcomers, Not easier farming/crafting/whatever, just instant loose of what you made to be able have fun, So why we need restart arms race once we are all well armed and looking for fight?

the game stops being fun the moment you have to beg players on irc/channel 0/ncr/whatever to come pvp.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: greenthumb on April 27, 2013, 11:26:44 am
yes,true dope, but whats the real objective reason/s they left?

As first soties left becouse of quite fair feature with iddler, simply 99% "cheaters" had problems with it + Tlamk2 wiped in same time. That made them just convert to another game, then avalanche of various whine threads began, it made many people without opinion take opinions of this numerous threads. And now we are dealing with so low amount of players. What's objective reason to leave 2238 except new server in old f2 style? Simply none or almost none. Becouse SS crafting is realy good right now, Gathering except gatlings/mfc/5mm ap is same as it was. No slight changes and it will most likely improve with updates.

Now people who left, demands wipe or another rollbacks to bring them they old environment. But they do not even realize, they on their own created this players absence. They left, but they want players here.... Just like a weird democratic country.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: DeputyDope on April 27, 2013, 12:18:44 pm
yes,true dope, but whats the real objective reason/s they left?

-stealing nerfed
-bombing nerfed
-trade broken
-encouragement of pounding rocks day in and day out to slowly get gear to be able to pvp
-unsafe crafting locations to craft even 10mmSMG
-pointless grinding to get access to "safe" advanced workbenches.
-ninja "fixes"(e.g.  randomly changing shit in mid-session to make your characters obsolete)
-pointless blueprints grinding to craft even shit gear
-incomplete crafting
-bad NPC balance in random encounters
-NPCs ninja-loot
-awful character imbalance
-useless skills
-lack of improvement on the generated maps on the world map, which leads to shit respawn spots and lack of variety to world map pvp.
-lack of vision
-lack of dev/player interaction
-boring repeatable quests
-lack of game content that wouldn't break game balance (bozar, yk32 pulse pistol, NCR armor etc)
-useless nerfs (e.g.. crippling mutants at gunrunners quest and not being able to pick up their weapons)
-pointless lockers that can't be opened.
-abusive GMs
-pointless alting (e.g. getting gear from hinkley for a low intelligence character)

Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Zuczek on April 27, 2013, 12:23:39 pm
True.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: C.H.A.R.L.I.E on April 27, 2013, 12:45:28 pm
The arms race starts all over again...

This is sort of an existential issue for the game, like what is the ultimate point exactly? It seems that most people have completed the game 1,5 years into a season, and there is nothing left to do. Building up infrastrcuture such as tents, making your trade\crafter\miner\farmer\ alts, PvP alts, and the so called arms race, IS the game in my opinion. Therefore i think 1,5+ year season is too long.

in case of wipe it would be like a week to gather all stuff again, but whats the major diffrence? Do PVP apes desire to have 1 week of PVE fun before doing PVP again?

This myth again, that after a week everyones fully geared. Just not true.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Lotus_ on April 27, 2013, 01:13:46 pm
The arms race starts all over again...

There are still things that need to be finished, nerfed, buffed before we can do wipe.

well do that with the wipe, thats what the wipe is isnt it bringing to ideas to the game and restarting it? also i really think that you should add a voteing system to things before you start nerfing and destroying the game further this is why people are leaving because devs made it unplayable man cant you tell why everyone is whineing and leaving? if you change things you should make a vote see if its dooable before doing it this is what pisses people off, wipe the game add the new feautures with the wipe, fix the crafting system like bfore maybe, last session you nearly had this game right? but making it more confusing and annoying just isint playable and makes people leave, all these things you need to do just add it in the wipe and wipe the fucking game

and even though i hate dope what hes saying is true
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Nice_Boat on April 27, 2013, 01:45:03 pm
Here's some food for thought: how many people will stop playing after the wipe due to losing their gear, which obviously isn't free anymore and no matter what Jovanka says will require some painful crafting-related grind because there's no viable way of farming stuff? It's pretty safe to assume the arms race is not going to restart because the gangs have all left, so you're probably not going to recreate the surge that's been associated with people rebuilding their logistics. Nessies are just the background noise, for them wipe or no wipe doesn't matter and they will give you something like 5-15 players on the server depending on the time of the day - but the few regulars who are still clinging to 2238 might actually feel forced to leave because they won't have the help of their teammates to go through the early game.

Basically, you guys are screwed either way. If you don't wipe people are going to feel cheated due to all the changes to the economy in this session and will continue being butthurt due to having to work with a different set of rules than the players who accumulated their wealth back in the beggining of the session - and if you wipe, you're going to lose players because early game is horrible for loners and there are no organized groups left.

The only way you could salvage this server would be to scrap most of the changes and backtrack to something like the 2010 version of the game, but then again the attitude you've shown over the last few weeks will leave many people refusing to play out of spite... and if that wasn't bad enough, even more people would just expect more bullshit in the future and save themselves the trouble of going through the same experience of witnessing the slow deterioration of the server again.

I'm sorry to say this, but there are no good options left for 2238 and in a year it's going to look like one of Xenom's projects. Your backs are firmly pressed against the wall and there's nothing you can do to stop the slide towards the server population of 0-20 aside from doing something that you've proven to be psychologically incapable of, like replacing some of the devs. Basically, you're back to day 1, 2009 - but this time there's butthurt instead of hype.

Congratulations, I'm pretty sure there's plenty of people that couldn't do worse even if they tried.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Floodnik on April 27, 2013, 02:00:44 pm
:(
Are we ever going to get the 2238 we want? Probably not.
Memento mori. Looks like everything has its end.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Mike Crosser on April 27, 2013, 02:21:04 pm
:(
Are we ever going to get the 2238 we want? Probably not.
Memento mori. Looks like everything has its end.
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT6JsLCX-tML7qn4UpNiZuZLrW2OoC4ccJ3jEOCh2v_lRlp0zMt)

I thought the next update was unicorns!
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Furior on April 27, 2013, 03:13:58 pm
Devs must realize that we play for fun. 2238 must be harsh, but that doesnt mean we have to losing OUR TIME doing stupid things like opening a fucking insane quantity of chests to be able to craft the basic stuff and forcing us to MAX all the damn skills (to open chest, 300 lockpick;to get mercs, 300speech; steal, sneak, barter, all the same). They have to stop trolling us implementing features like: Int to get stuff in hinkley (they perfectly know the characters who go there doesnt have IN. They may want us to fight with crafters, btw...), implementing recipes which mats are not implemented yet, giving us +1 perk (lvl 24 perk) but forcing crit builts to waste it just to be as good as they were while the other builts can get much more hp or damage, removing the brotherhood armor to make pvp battles shorter, nerfing ew (im not talking about gatling laser..). Devs please....If you want to have chances to improve this game, please, before implementing something, THINK!. And dont forget you can ask opinions here in the forum about new features before implementing them.

A wipe + big changes in game, thats the last hope of 2238.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Mike Crosser on April 27, 2013, 03:43:21 pm
Some people seem to have forgotten that grind is a crucial part of every mmorpg.
When you think of it grind is the only think that keeps you going.
You grind your weapons,you grind your armor,you grind your drugs,you grind your alts,you grind your fun.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Nice_Boat on April 27, 2013, 04:10:13 pm
Some people seem to have forgotten that grind is a crucial part of every mmorpg.
When you think of it grind is the only think that keeps you going.
You grind your weapons,you grind your armor,you grind your drugs,you grind your alts,you grind your fun.

Have you ever played other MMOs? Name one that requires you to grind simple, brain-numbing, repetitive tasks to use any gameplay mechanic. There's none. 2238 is the sole racing game that requires you to go through the motions of refueling your car before every single race. Even leveling up a lvl-24 char boils down to shooting a million of molerats, because fuck quests and fuck having fun. I wouldn't even call that playing. It's more like manual labor - and people who do manual labor actually get paid.

And yeah, Jovanka might start spouting crap about her valiant efforts to limit this pointless grind, but the fact is that the fun:work ratio isn't even close to 1:1 in this game. In that sense, it isn't free because if I spent all the time I spent crafting ammo doing actual, real-life work I'd be able to afford lifetime subscription to every single modern mmo and a monthly supply of cocaine and hookers.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Gimper on April 27, 2013, 04:25:05 pm
I spent all the time I spent crafting ammo doing actual, real-life work I'd be able to afford lifetime subscription to every single modern mmo and a monthly supply of cocaine and hookers.

Then why aren't you? Get your lazy sunlight deprived body out of the house for once, and get a job. Your so busy complaining about this free to play game BETA game, and you could be out having a life. Grow up.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Nice_Boat on April 27, 2013, 04:34:08 pm
Then why aren't you? Get your lazy sunlight deprived body out of the house for once, and get a job. Your so busy complaining about this free to play game BETA game, and you could be out having a life. Grow up.

Who said I'm not? It's just that there's a limit to the number of hookers and the amount of intoxicating substances I can take, life's all about doing everything in moderation after all. Oh, and 2238 definitely is not a beta, beta versions by definition have a goal and a list of features to check. Here, educate yourself kid: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_testing
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Alvarez on April 27, 2013, 06:19:00 pm
Sometimes i wonder if you want bring devs to a point where they say "fuck this shit!" and take down 2238 for good so they can spend time on more grateful tasks.

And i don't want you to succeed.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Nice_Boat on April 27, 2013, 07:10:54 pm
Sometimes i wonder if you want bring devs to a point where they say "fuck this shit!" and take down 2238 for good so they can spend time on more grateful tasks.

And i don't want you to succeed.

Yeah, my hidden agenda is to bring 2238 to its knees by describing the game as it is and pointing out the flaws that, you know, drove the entire fucking community away. When I see posts like these I always wonder where the hell were you and your care for the server back when it mattered, because in all honesty right now you're still more like a part of the problem than a part of the solution. Just let me remind you that the changes that Jovanka tries to use to rebuild her non-existent reputation with are the shit people like me suggested as early as 2010... I don't remember you pointing them in the right direction, but I clearly remember that everything that's happening right now has been predicted a few years ago by people who get the most crap from the devs and people patting them on the back like you are doing right now.

Anyway, the game won't recover if you allow the devs to keep on being disconnected from reality and implementing autistic changes, the game might recover if you point out the mistakes that were made and the problems that have been caused by some of the ridiculous, dangerous ideas the devs still have. If confronting the results of their actions is enough to make them quit and shut the damn thing down than in all honesty who cares, a server that's going to drop to 20 players over the next few months is dead anyway. I know that confronting the reality of your mistakes is not a pleasant thing to do, but it's still better than destroying the fruits of countless hours of your and other people's work by remaining in error.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Alvarez on April 27, 2013, 07:34:20 pm
Oh, and you care for 2238 so dearly? Where would it be without your ranting, Boat? What a contribution! Go on, amuse me with your reply!
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Sephiroth-sama on April 27, 2013, 07:40:42 pm
@Nice_Boat

Fonline can definitely be called a beta game. The game changes a lot with every update, even important aspects of the game, trying to balance/fix gameplay features, this is obviously what a beta is about. The very early phases of test are called Alpha, and those are mostly closed (even though there are open and closed alphas, as there are open and closed betas and we're in Open Beta).

I, particularly, wouldn't mind a Wipe. Even if I had stuff, I'm not te one who gets attached to stuff (especially virtual, in-game stuff). I'd rather have a better server. But if there are barely 50-100 players right now (in peaks), imagine after wipe? You guys have left and want the game to be in ruins, this is pointless. Go play your freaking russian server, TLA or something. Wipe hasn't done much good until now and it probably won't.

Now I haven't been playing the game for a while but I remember there used to be more players and well... they were more willing to improve too.
Most people that left never wanted fonline:2238 in the first place, they just played it because it was the only option they knew or the closer. These guys always wanted PvP, Mass PvP and EASY PVP, no Roleplay aspects, no PvE aspects, and no other aspects at all. They just want some PvP with the Fallout 2 engine (and they got it in their russian server).
Devs are constantly working in the game and I don't know what's behind their changes, probably players plus their own common sense. What most players want is not what's the best for the game, they're not making PROFIT from this game, it's FREE, so they might as well just do whatever they want. They could've been just listening to the suggestions they think or believe it's the best/closest to the final product they want and that's that. If you want YOUR changes to be implemented in the game, well, try getting some unanimity for a change. The FOn:2238 community isn't unanimous about anything. Whichever side the devs pick, the other side will always be upset. So they can't do anything for you, if you didn't like the changes, you have several options: play another server, wait for other changes that please you, or just keep playing and whining.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Nice_Boat on April 27, 2013, 07:48:40 pm
Oh, and you care for 2238 so dearly? Where would it be without your ranting, Boat? What a contribution! Go on, amuse me with your reply!
I find it hilarious that you won't even bother with discussing facts and using logical argumentation... but then again you'd have to stop patting the devs on their backs to do that, so I sort of understand that your position is pretty difficult right now. Doesn't mean you have to resort to low-level trolling though.

Besides, I remember being told by Solar that my contribution actually made a difference, but that's really beside the point as you're basically acting like an asshole because I dared to discuss the game without sugar-coating it on a General Game Discussion board. Jesus Christ, how ridiculous can you people get.


Fonline can definitely be called a beta game. The game changes a lot with every update, even important aspects of the game, trying to balance/fix gameplay features, this is obviously what a beta is about. The very early phases of test are called Alpha, and those are mostly closed (even though there are open and closed alphas, as there are open and closed betas and we're in Open Beta).
If the game is a beta, please answer the following:
- what gameplay features were they trying to balance;
- why was there a major redesign of SPECIAL and armors (I guess that's what a normal dev would call an expansion pack);
- what were the goals of this beta, particularly in terms of its completion;
- why did it last 4 years?

You can't answer any of these questions in a satisfactory manner, so basically calling this game a beta is a delusion, which is bad because it makes it significantly easier for the devs to experiment with ridiculous mechanics that have simply driven people away.

I, particularly, wouldn't mind a Wipe. Even if I had stuff, I'm not te one who gets attached to stuff (especially virtual, in-game stuff). I'd rather have a better server.
How exactly would it be better and how does your opinion relate to my argument? I didn't say that everyone would leave, I said there'd be people leaving after the wipe and I've explained why do I think so. It's hard discussing shit when the other side doesn't even bother with reading the arguments of the person they "disagree" with.

But if there are barely 50-100 players right now (in peaks), imagine after wipe?
The wipe would cause yet another ragequit and I already explained why. This is not going to go like the previous wipes, because there's no PvP community to boost the numbers. You had this thing happen on a smaller scale at the beginning of this session, as a number of people left because setting up your logistics was too hard. It's not going to get any easier with less people playing on your team, so a wipe without making everything easy to get will simply prove detrimental to the health of the game.

You guys have left and want the game to be in ruins, this is pointless.
If we wanted the game to be in ruins, we'd just stfu and gtfo and watch the ship sink from a safe distance.

Go play your freaking russian server, TLA or something. Wipe hasn't done much good until now and it probably won't.
Now you're just contradicting yourself and to make it worse you add TLA into the equation. The only way in which TLA is relevant to this stuff is that the people who quit are making TLA their home server and right now every single mistake is going to prove more costly as you won't be getting those guys back. Your answer to that problem is to do something reckless and dangerous, but whatever, I've almost lost hope this is going to end well anyway.

Most people that left never wanted fonline:2238 in the first place, they just played it because it was the only option they knew or the closer. These guys always wanted PvP, Mass PvP and EASY PVP, no Roleplay aspects, no PvE aspects, and no other aspects at all. They just want some PvP with the Fallout 2 engine (and they got it in their russian server).
PvP is the only thing that 2238 does better than TLA, I don't know where the hell are you getting your ideas about that server from but I'd suggest playing it for a few hours before making more comments like this one. Besides you basically just claimed that most of the regulars who used to play on 2238 didn't really like 2238 to begin with. That's like... wow dude, I don't even know what to say.

Devs are constantly working in the game and I don't know what's behind their changes, probably players plus their own common sense. What most players want is not what's the best for the game,
Wait, so the devs are making the game for the players, but what players want is not what's the best for the game? What'd be best for the game than? 20 players in peak hours? You aren't making any sense.

they're not making PROFIT from this game, it's FREE, so they might as well just do whatever they want.
First of all, their profits and losses are their own business and I see no reason for any player to care about that. And yeah, they're free to do whatever they want just like any other devteam/company is free to do whatever the hell it wants, it doesn't change the fact that it will have to face the consequences of its mistakes. Making the game free doesn't change the fact that when you fuck up, you get burned.

They could've been just listening to the suggestions they think or believe it's the best/closest to the final product they want and that's that. If you want YOUR changes to be implemented in the game, well, try getting some unanimity for a change. The FOn:2238 community isn't unanimous about anything. Whichever side the devs pick, the other side will always be upset.
If 60% of the server population flipping them the bird and leaving isn't a convincingly unanimous response, than I don't know what is.

So they can't do anything for you, if you didn't like the changes, you have several options: play another server, wait for other changes that please you, or just keep playing and whining.
It's not and never was about me, you or anyone else because we all have a crapload of cool games to play and 2238 isn't really the special snowflake some people have been led to think it is. The issue here is the dropping player count, which is, you know, rather troublesome for any multiplayer platform. So yeah, the devs can make the autistic Mad Max adventure of their dreams anytime they want, but if there's no people left to play it by the time they're done, than there's no escaping the fact that they objectively messed something up - especially since it used to be pretty popular back in the day.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Alvarez on April 27, 2013, 08:36:01 pm
Boat.
It seems that in your PoV, i'm some kind of sycophant catching approval from devs by bashing you. This happens because you rely only on your own perspective. You don't consider opinions of other people actually enjoying some aspects of 2238. This is why my logical explanation won't be understood by you. And i don't give a damn about your opinion. This is a empty sound for me. And you know why?

You find a random person opposing you and go apeshit on him just to justify your own ego NOT YOUR OPINION.
"Hey, look at me, i made him shut up am i cool or what? Onwards with the 2238 bashing!"

I honestly don't even give a fuck about PvP and gang issues or whatever gang issues. I enjoy empty towns, i enjoy relaxed crafting, i enjoy empty Wasteland and dying landscape. I enjoy the fact of bored PKs leaving this server. They can all go on TLA for fuck's sake for what i care.

Finally, i can walk around Reno and Modoc and do some quests and be for a change a part of the scenery instead of ninja on quick insertion operation risking of being killed. And even if my login don't work one day and the server remains dead for a month, i will consider it dead, shrug it off and change to TLA or whatever MMOG i consider amusing. (with a small disappointment).

Because i used to worship this game, now i'm done with trying to change it. Waste of time and nerves. Just let it go.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Sephiroth-sama on April 27, 2013, 08:36:38 pm
@Nice_boat, just to clarify a few things, I did not direct my entire post to you. It was just the first paragraph (the thing about beta). All the other "you" were directed to a few ranting players, who moved to TLA and keep ranting here.

If the game is a beta, please answer the following:
- what gameplay features were they trying to balance;
- why was there a major redesign of SPECIAL and armors (I guess that's what a normal dev would call an expansion pack);
- what were the goals of this beta, particularly in terms of its completion;
- why did it last 4 years?

- All gameplay features. Remember FOnline:2238 was one of the first (if not the first) Fallout 2 online. Ever. There were TONS of things to balance (and there still are).
- Erm, because having everyone walk around in power armors is silly? The game was entirely designed for offline, single-player campaign, there would have more things to redesign and adapt. Messing with the SPECIAL is risky but anything you change in a game when you adapt it to online play, there WILL be people to complain (another completely unrelated example is the PokeMMO, it's pretty much FireRed online but there are changes and not implemented stuff and players keep saying "I would be better playing FireRed or <whatever other pokemon game here>").
- Probably to have a pleasurable, balanced game for most people. Yeah, this is tough.
- Well, dude, I've seen Alphas lasting for more than 4 years. There are several games in Alpha stage after a half dozen years. These things are not defined. And the beta will end when the devs said it ended, not us. They're the ones to estimate development stages, because they're the ones developing.

One thing is for sure, they didn't do the changes based on nothing or in their own opinion solely. They listened to players. This began as a discussion in the NMA forums, people never believed it would lead into something. When it DID lead, instead of keeping united, players just decided that FOnline turned into another MMO: "I'll rant, ask for nerfs for all the things I don't do, ask for buffs for everything I do, ask for changes to make everything easier for me (even though wasteland is supposed to be harsh) and always, always complain. When things don't go my way I'll just move to another server and claim my previous one was shit."
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Nice_Boat on April 27, 2013, 08:42:20 pm
...

See? You can if you try and it's hard to disagree with what you've said because for you, it's just a matter of personal taste. The problem is that if the devs made people like you their main target audience, the server would simply keel over and die, because there wouldn't be enough people playing. Besides, I don't think that putting a few months of pretty hardcore development into the game for a few people to do quests was really what the devs were aiming for, but then again who knows.

- All gameplay features. Remember FOnline:2238 was one of the first (if not the first) Fallout 2 online. Ever. There were TONS of things to balance (and there still are).
Please, don't do that. If there were tons of things to balance, why were so many features scrapped and redesigned even when this course of action was objectively uncalled for since nothing was blatantly broken? That's not what you do in a beta, that's what you do with a mature game when you feel it's getting stale.

- Erm, because having everyone walk around in power armors is silly? The game was entirely designed for offline, single-player campaign, there would have more things to redesign and adapt. Messing with the SPECIAL is risky but anything you change in a game when you adapt it to online play, there WILL be people to complain (another completely unrelated example is the PokeMMO, it's pretty much FireRed online but there are changes and not implemented stuff).
I meant the perk overhaul and helmet/body armor redesign. No matter how you look at it, that was an expansion pack. You don't do that shit when you're running a beta.

- Probably to have a pleasurable, balanced game for most people. Yeah, this is tough.
But this isn't really a development goal, it doesn't give you standards to measure your progress.

- Well, dude, I've seen Alphas lasting for more than 4 years. There are several games in Alpha stage after a half dozen years. These things are not defined. And the beta will end when the devs said it ended, not us. They're the ones to estimate development stages, because they're the ones developing.
Yeah, the argument that if the devs say it's a beta than it's a beta is impossible to refute, but I don't think they're using the word in its original meaning because in all honesty there's no actual testing going on... ie. there's no "test a feature, gather feedback, modify feature to match the goals" loop in use anywhere, it's just a bunch of knee-jerk nerfs, buffs and redesigns. All it does is introduce confusion, because I'm pretty sure you're aware that your answers weren't specific at all and nobody including the devs themselves would be able to provide the community with something more satisfactory.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Crovax on April 27, 2013, 09:48:13 pm
I honestly think the game would be so much better if we could somehow go back to the end of 2011 right before the wipe happened, and then worked on it from there. Changes from the wipe were very extreme and left a lot of basically half done mechanics in the mix (at least from my Perspective) like AC perks, and kamikazi for example. I know not everything in that update was horrible, but i believe we were really close to something great previously.




Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Swinglinered on April 28, 2013, 12:22:56 am
Some people seem to have forgotten that grind is a crucial part of every mmorpg.
When you think of it grind is the only think that keeps you going.
You grind your weapons,you grind your armor,you grind your drugs,you grind your alts,you grind your fun.

You grind your gear, you grind your alts, you grind it all, and there you have...

The Facts of Fonline.

Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Lotus_ on April 28, 2013, 09:44:40 am
i thought this post was if people agree to wipe the game or not :S

a big wipe with some big changesd will make this game better ,, and stop with these stupied devs ideas
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Mike Crosser on April 28, 2013, 02:57:39 pm
Have you ever played other MMOs? Name one that requires you to grind simple, brain-numbing, repetitive tasks to use any gameplay mechanic. There's none. 2238 is the sole racing game that requires you to go through the motions of refueling your car before every single race. Even leveling up a lvl-24 char boils down to shooting a million of molerats, because fuck quests and fuck having fun. I wouldn't even call that playing. It's more like manual labor - and people who do manual labor actually get paid.

And yeah, Jovanka might start spouting crap about her valiant efforts to limit this pointless grind, but the fact is that the fun:work ratio isn't even close to 1:1 in this game. In that sense, it isn't free because if I spent all the time I spent crafting ammo doing actual, real-life work I'd be able to afford lifetime subscription to every single modern mmo and a monthly supply of cocaine and hookers.
Have you played any other MMOs?
Look at WoW for instance you kill X amount of creatures until they drop Y amount of items so you can finish a quest(though i heard that most of the shit like this has been removed)
Or better yet EVE online which has 10000 more players then 2238.

So many mmos are condemned for having either too much or too little grind.Since if they have too much then it's boring but if they have too little then it's either imbalanced or inconsistent.

i thought this post was if people agree to wipe the game or not :S

a big wipe with some big changesd will make this game better ,, and stop with these stupied devs ideas
A wise man once said that in order for there to be a big update one must first make the damn big update.


Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: avv on April 28, 2013, 07:32:08 pm
I honestly think the game would be so much better if we could somehow go back to the end of 2011 right before the wipe happened, and then worked on it from there. Changes from the wipe were very extreme and left a lot of basically half done mechanics in the mix (at least from my Perspective) like AC perks, and kamikazi for example. I know not everything in that update was horrible, but i believe we were really close to something great previously.

Actually the game is much similar as in the end of last wipe. The extreme stuff of this session had in its beginning like fastrelog waves, sd sneaks and ac trolls have been removed.

Have you played any other MMOs?
Look at WoW for instance you kill X amount of creatures until they drop Y amount of items so you can finish a quest(though i heard that most of the shit like this has been removed)
Or better yet EVE online which has 10000 more players then 2238.

Players don't like grind but they like progress. It's interesting and captivating to always have a chance to move on and advance. In fonline you pretty much grind the same things over and over. When your character is max level, you start a new character because max level char can't improve anymore.
In wow you can gather better and better equipment for your character. It's character-based game. Fonline is resource based. Characters are just resources or tools rather than centers of interest.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Crovax on April 28, 2013, 08:17:58 pm
AC trolls were nerfed but we are still left with the remnants. AC perks are still there and kamikazie is still AC based trait. I guess there are so many things that I personally do not like about that update though, like helmets, bonehead, man of steel, RBTE, ac system, bonus move nerf, kamikazi ruined, good natured. Anyways that's just my opinion, figured I would just throw it in there.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Mike Crosser on April 28, 2013, 08:59:01 pm

Fair enough,you have a point there.
Title: Re: Wipe the game or not?
Post by: Nice_Boat on April 29, 2013, 02:54:56 pm
Have you played any other MMOs?
Look at WoW for instance you kill X amount of creatures until they drop Y amount of items so you can finish a quest(though i heard that most of the shit like this has been removed)
Yeah, but in WoW you never lose progress unless your account gets hacked, so once you grind your way somewhere you don't really have to repeat that process - so in the end, it's not the same repetitive, boring stuff you get here.

Or better yet EVE online which has 10000 more players then 2238.
Actually it's probably more like 100,000 and yeah, I'm playing EVE and in all honesty you can enjoy every aspect of that game without grinding if the aspect itself doesn't involve grind. So yeah, you can be a miner or an industrialist or a trader and that's somewhat grindy by definition, but then again an industrialist or a trader gets more player interaction than on 2238 due to EVE economy being a healthy laissez-faire affair instead of a convoluted mess. But if you want to PvP, you can do just that by joining a null-sec corp without doing a single mission, ever - because the corp has a huge corp-only income that allows it to refund the ships you lose in combat. If you're good, you can live by the loot in low-sec or do combat missions in faction warfare. Same shit with PvE - yeah, you can grind Lv4 missions, but you also have an option to run Incursion fleets or go for a PvE/PvP mix in wormholes. You're never forced to settle for a single solution. The possibilities are endless and it's nice that you've used EVE as an example because this game is basically 2238 in space, but it gets its shit right. EVE ran by 2238 devs would mean that everyone would have to mine Veldspar for an hour to get into frigate-only PvP fight... wonder how many of those 100,000 people would be left after a year of that. I think the biggest difference is the fact that EVE allows big entities to have a source of passive income (null-sec moons) and it has cheap ammo and expensive ships/weapons. On 2238, it's pretty much the opposite - the passive income can't really fuel your war effort fully, but is still pretty much imbalanced in terms of junk you get and the ammo is worth more than weapons, which means that pretty often even when you win, you actually lose in terms of $$$. Actually, there's a metric fuckton of gameplay mechanics that could be safely adapted from EVE to make this game not only playable, but also quite popular - but the devs respond to such suggestions with unwarranted insults.

The tl;dr version is that while EVE has its share of problems (blue donut, PvP aspect that is somewhat hard to get into etc.), it still acknowledges them and tries to deal with them in a way that is more or less logical, while 2238 is 100% in denial and applies brow-raising solutions instead of going for the tried and tested formula that is readily available in other games.