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Poll

Whould you guys like to wipe and fix the game or keep it?

yeah!!!
- 55 (48.7%)
mabe
- 6 (5.3%)
dunno
- 5 (4.4%)
no
- 15 (13.3%)
wtf is wrong with you
- 32 (28.3%)

Total Members Voted: 112


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Author Topic: Wipe the game or not?  (Read 20956 times)

Mike Crosser

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Re: Wipe the game or not?
« Reply #105 on: April 27, 2013, 03:43:21 pm »

Some people seem to have forgotten that grind is a crucial part of every mmorpg.
When you think of it grind is the only think that keeps you going.
You grind your weapons,you grind your armor,you grind your drugs,you grind your alts,you grind your fun.

Nice_Boat

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Re: Wipe the game or not?
« Reply #106 on: April 27, 2013, 04:10:13 pm »

Some people seem to have forgotten that grind is a crucial part of every mmorpg.
When you think of it grind is the only think that keeps you going.
You grind your weapons,you grind your armor,you grind your drugs,you grind your alts,you grind your fun.

Have you ever played other MMOs? Name one that requires you to grind simple, brain-numbing, repetitive tasks to use any gameplay mechanic. There's none. 2238 is the sole racing game that requires you to go through the motions of refueling your car before every single race. Even leveling up a lvl-24 char boils down to shooting a million of molerats, because fuck quests and fuck having fun. I wouldn't even call that playing. It's more like manual labor - and people who do manual labor actually get paid.

And yeah, Jovanka might start spouting crap about her valiant efforts to limit this pointless grind, but the fact is that the fun:work ratio isn't even close to 1:1 in this game. In that sense, it isn't free because if I spent all the time I spent crafting ammo doing actual, real-life work I'd be able to afford lifetime subscription to every single modern mmo and a monthly supply of cocaine and hookers.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2013, 04:12:53 pm by Nice_Boat »
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Gimper

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Re: Wipe the game or not?
« Reply #107 on: April 27, 2013, 04:25:05 pm »

I spent all the time I spent crafting ammo doing actual, real-life work I'd be able to afford lifetime subscription to every single modern mmo and a monthly supply of cocaine and hookers.

Then why aren't you? Get your lazy sunlight deprived body out of the house for once, and get a job. Your so busy complaining about this free to play game BETA game, and you could be out having a life. Grow up.

Nice_Boat

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Re: Wipe the game or not?
« Reply #108 on: April 27, 2013, 04:34:08 pm »

Then why aren't you? Get your lazy sunlight deprived body out of the house for once, and get a job. Your so busy complaining about this free to play game BETA game, and you could be out having a life. Grow up.

Who said I'm not? It's just that there's a limit to the number of hookers and the amount of intoxicating substances I can take, life's all about doing everything in moderation after all. Oh, and 2238 definitely is not a beta, beta versions by definition have a goal and a list of features to check. Here, educate yourself kid: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_testing
« Last Edit: April 27, 2013, 04:48:18 pm by Nice_Boat »
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Alvarez

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Re: Wipe the game or not?
« Reply #109 on: April 27, 2013, 06:19:00 pm »

Sometimes i wonder if you want bring devs to a point where they say "fuck this shit!" and take down 2238 for good so they can spend time on more grateful tasks.

And i don't want you to succeed.
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Nice_Boat

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Re: Wipe the game or not?
« Reply #110 on: April 27, 2013, 07:10:54 pm »

Sometimes i wonder if you want bring devs to a point where they say "fuck this shit!" and take down 2238 for good so they can spend time on more grateful tasks.

And i don't want you to succeed.

Yeah, my hidden agenda is to bring 2238 to its knees by describing the game as it is and pointing out the flaws that, you know, drove the entire fucking community away. When I see posts like these I always wonder where the hell were you and your care for the server back when it mattered, because in all honesty right now you're still more like a part of the problem than a part of the solution. Just let me remind you that the changes that Jovanka tries to use to rebuild her non-existent reputation with are the shit people like me suggested as early as 2010... I don't remember you pointing them in the right direction, but I clearly remember that everything that's happening right now has been predicted a few years ago by people who get the most crap from the devs and people patting them on the back like you are doing right now.

Anyway, the game won't recover if you allow the devs to keep on being disconnected from reality and implementing autistic changes, the game might recover if you point out the mistakes that were made and the problems that have been caused by some of the ridiculous, dangerous ideas the devs still have. If confronting the results of their actions is enough to make them quit and shut the damn thing down than in all honesty who cares, a server that's going to drop to 20 players over the next few months is dead anyway. I know that confronting the reality of your mistakes is not a pleasant thing to do, but it's still better than destroying the fruits of countless hours of your and other people's work by remaining in error.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2013, 07:28:48 pm by Nice_Boat »
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Alvarez

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Re: Wipe the game or not?
« Reply #111 on: April 27, 2013, 07:34:20 pm »

Oh, and you care for 2238 so dearly? Where would it be without your ranting, Boat? What a contribution! Go on, amuse me with your reply!
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Re: Wipe the game or not?
« Reply #112 on: April 27, 2013, 07:40:42 pm »

@Nice_Boat

Fonline can definitely be called a beta game. The game changes a lot with every update, even important aspects of the game, trying to balance/fix gameplay features, this is obviously what a beta is about. The very early phases of test are called Alpha, and those are mostly closed (even though there are open and closed alphas, as there are open and closed betas and we're in Open Beta).

I, particularly, wouldn't mind a Wipe. Even if I had stuff, I'm not te one who gets attached to stuff (especially virtual, in-game stuff). I'd rather have a better server. But if there are barely 50-100 players right now (in peaks), imagine after wipe? You guys have left and want the game to be in ruins, this is pointless. Go play your freaking russian server, TLA or something. Wipe hasn't done much good until now and it probably won't.

Now I haven't been playing the game for a while but I remember there used to be more players and well... they were more willing to improve too.
Most people that left never wanted fonline:2238 in the first place, they just played it because it was the only option they knew or the closer. These guys always wanted PvP, Mass PvP and EASY PVP, no Roleplay aspects, no PvE aspects, and no other aspects at all. They just want some PvP with the Fallout 2 engine (and they got it in their russian server).
Devs are constantly working in the game and I don't know what's behind their changes, probably players plus their own common sense. What most players want is not what's the best for the game, they're not making PROFIT from this game, it's FREE, so they might as well just do whatever they want. They could've been just listening to the suggestions they think or believe it's the best/closest to the final product they want and that's that. If you want YOUR changes to be implemented in the game, well, try getting some unanimity for a change. The FOn:2238 community isn't unanimous about anything. Whichever side the devs pick, the other side will always be upset. So they can't do anything for you, if you didn't like the changes, you have several options: play another server, wait for other changes that please you, or just keep playing and whining.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2013, 07:45:24 pm by Sephiroth-sama »
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Nice_Boat

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Re: Wipe the game or not?
« Reply #113 on: April 27, 2013, 07:48:40 pm »

Oh, and you care for 2238 so dearly? Where would it be without your ranting, Boat? What a contribution! Go on, amuse me with your reply!
I find it hilarious that you won't even bother with discussing facts and using logical argumentation... but then again you'd have to stop patting the devs on their backs to do that, so I sort of understand that your position is pretty difficult right now. Doesn't mean you have to resort to low-level trolling though.

Besides, I remember being told by Solar that my contribution actually made a difference, but that's really beside the point as you're basically acting like an asshole because I dared to discuss the game without sugar-coating it on a General Game Discussion board. Jesus Christ, how ridiculous can you people get.


Fonline can definitely be called a beta game. The game changes a lot with every update, even important aspects of the game, trying to balance/fix gameplay features, this is obviously what a beta is about. The very early phases of test are called Alpha, and those are mostly closed (even though there are open and closed alphas, as there are open and closed betas and we're in Open Beta).
If the game is a beta, please answer the following:
- what gameplay features were they trying to balance;
- why was there a major redesign of SPECIAL and armors (I guess that's what a normal dev would call an expansion pack);
- what were the goals of this beta, particularly in terms of its completion;
- why did it last 4 years?

You can't answer any of these questions in a satisfactory manner, so basically calling this game a beta is a delusion, which is bad because it makes it significantly easier for the devs to experiment with ridiculous mechanics that have simply driven people away.

I, particularly, wouldn't mind a Wipe. Even if I had stuff, I'm not te one who gets attached to stuff (especially virtual, in-game stuff). I'd rather have a better server.
How exactly would it be better and how does your opinion relate to my argument? I didn't say that everyone would leave, I said there'd be people leaving after the wipe and I've explained why do I think so. It's hard discussing shit when the other side doesn't even bother with reading the arguments of the person they "disagree" with.

But if there are barely 50-100 players right now (in peaks), imagine after wipe?
The wipe would cause yet another ragequit and I already explained why. This is not going to go like the previous wipes, because there's no PvP community to boost the numbers. You had this thing happen on a smaller scale at the beginning of this session, as a number of people left because setting up your logistics was too hard. It's not going to get any easier with less people playing on your team, so a wipe without making everything easy to get will simply prove detrimental to the health of the game.

You guys have left and want the game to be in ruins, this is pointless.
If we wanted the game to be in ruins, we'd just stfu and gtfo and watch the ship sink from a safe distance.

Go play your freaking russian server, TLA or something. Wipe hasn't done much good until now and it probably won't.
Now you're just contradicting yourself and to make it worse you add TLA into the equation. The only way in which TLA is relevant to this stuff is that the people who quit are making TLA their home server and right now every single mistake is going to prove more costly as you won't be getting those guys back. Your answer to that problem is to do something reckless and dangerous, but whatever, I've almost lost hope this is going to end well anyway.

Most people that left never wanted fonline:2238 in the first place, they just played it because it was the only option they knew or the closer. These guys always wanted PvP, Mass PvP and EASY PVP, no Roleplay aspects, no PvE aspects, and no other aspects at all. They just want some PvP with the Fallout 2 engine (and they got it in their russian server).
PvP is the only thing that 2238 does better than TLA, I don't know where the hell are you getting your ideas about that server from but I'd suggest playing it for a few hours before making more comments like this one. Besides you basically just claimed that most of the regulars who used to play on 2238 didn't really like 2238 to begin with. That's like... wow dude, I don't even know what to say.

Devs are constantly working in the game and I don't know what's behind their changes, probably players plus their own common sense. What most players want is not what's the best for the game,
Wait, so the devs are making the game for the players, but what players want is not what's the best for the game? What'd be best for the game than? 20 players in peak hours? You aren't making any sense.

they're not making PROFIT from this game, it's FREE, so they might as well just do whatever they want.
First of all, their profits and losses are their own business and I see no reason for any player to care about that. And yeah, they're free to do whatever they want just like any other devteam/company is free to do whatever the hell it wants, it doesn't change the fact that it will have to face the consequences of its mistakes. Making the game free doesn't change the fact that when you fuck up, you get burned.

They could've been just listening to the suggestions they think or believe it's the best/closest to the final product they want and that's that. If you want YOUR changes to be implemented in the game, well, try getting some unanimity for a change. The FOn:2238 community isn't unanimous about anything. Whichever side the devs pick, the other side will always be upset.
If 60% of the server population flipping them the bird and leaving isn't a convincingly unanimous response, than I don't know what is.

So they can't do anything for you, if you didn't like the changes, you have several options: play another server, wait for other changes that please you, or just keep playing and whining.
It's not and never was about me, you or anyone else because we all have a crapload of cool games to play and 2238 isn't really the special snowflake some people have been led to think it is. The issue here is the dropping player count, which is, you know, rather troublesome for any multiplayer platform. So yeah, the devs can make the autistic Mad Max adventure of their dreams anytime they want, but if there's no people left to play it by the time they're done, than there's no escaping the fact that they objectively messed something up - especially since it used to be pretty popular back in the day.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2013, 08:32:02 pm by Nice_Boat »
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Alvarez

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Re: Wipe the game or not?
« Reply #114 on: April 27, 2013, 08:36:01 pm »

Boat.
It seems that in your PoV, i'm some kind of sycophant catching approval from devs by bashing you. This happens because you rely only on your own perspective. You don't consider opinions of other people actually enjoying some aspects of 2238. This is why my logical explanation won't be understood by you. And i don't give a damn about your opinion. This is a empty sound for me. And you know why?

You find a random person opposing you and go apeshit on him just to justify your own ego NOT YOUR OPINION.
"Hey, look at me, i made him shut up am i cool or what? Onwards with the 2238 bashing!"

I honestly don't even give a fuck about PvP and gang issues or whatever gang issues. I enjoy empty towns, i enjoy relaxed crafting, i enjoy empty Wasteland and dying landscape. I enjoy the fact of bored PKs leaving this server. They can all go on TLA for fuck's sake for what i care.

Finally, i can walk around Reno and Modoc and do some quests and be for a change a part of the scenery instead of ninja on quick insertion operation risking of being killed. And even if my login don't work one day and the server remains dead for a month, i will consider it dead, shrug it off and change to TLA or whatever MMOG i consider amusing. (with a small disappointment).

Because i used to worship this game, now i'm done with trying to change it. Waste of time and nerves. Just let it go.
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Re: Wipe the game or not?
« Reply #115 on: April 27, 2013, 08:36:38 pm »

@Nice_boat, just to clarify a few things, I did not direct my entire post to you. It was just the first paragraph (the thing about beta). All the other "you" were directed to a few ranting players, who moved to TLA and keep ranting here.

If the game is a beta, please answer the following:
- what gameplay features were they trying to balance;
- why was there a major redesign of SPECIAL and armors (I guess that's what a normal dev would call an expansion pack);
- what were the goals of this beta, particularly in terms of its completion;
- why did it last 4 years?

- All gameplay features. Remember FOnline:2238 was one of the first (if not the first) Fallout 2 online. Ever. There were TONS of things to balance (and there still are).
- Erm, because having everyone walk around in power armors is silly? The game was entirely designed for offline, single-player campaign, there would have more things to redesign and adapt. Messing with the SPECIAL is risky but anything you change in a game when you adapt it to online play, there WILL be people to complain (another completely unrelated example is the PokeMMO, it's pretty much FireRed online but there are changes and not implemented stuff and players keep saying "I would be better playing FireRed or <whatever other pokemon game here>").
- Probably to have a pleasurable, balanced game for most people. Yeah, this is tough.
- Well, dude, I've seen Alphas lasting for more than 4 years. There are several games in Alpha stage after a half dozen years. These things are not defined. And the beta will end when the devs said it ended, not us. They're the ones to estimate development stages, because they're the ones developing.

One thing is for sure, they didn't do the changes based on nothing or in their own opinion solely. They listened to players. This began as a discussion in the NMA forums, people never believed it would lead into something. When it DID lead, instead of keeping united, players just decided that FOnline turned into another MMO: "I'll rant, ask for nerfs for all the things I don't do, ask for buffs for everything I do, ask for changes to make everything easier for me (even though wasteland is supposed to be harsh) and always, always complain. When things don't go my way I'll just move to another server and claim my previous one was shit."
« Last Edit: April 27, 2013, 08:43:31 pm by Sephiroth-sama »
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Nice_Boat

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Re: Wipe the game or not?
« Reply #116 on: April 27, 2013, 08:42:20 pm »

...

See? You can if you try and it's hard to disagree with what you've said because for you, it's just a matter of personal taste. The problem is that if the devs made people like you their main target audience, the server would simply keel over and die, because there wouldn't be enough people playing. Besides, I don't think that putting a few months of pretty hardcore development into the game for a few people to do quests was really what the devs were aiming for, but then again who knows.

- All gameplay features. Remember FOnline:2238 was one of the first (if not the first) Fallout 2 online. Ever. There were TONS of things to balance (and there still are).
Please, don't do that. If there were tons of things to balance, why were so many features scrapped and redesigned even when this course of action was objectively uncalled for since nothing was blatantly broken? That's not what you do in a beta, that's what you do with a mature game when you feel it's getting stale.

- Erm, because having everyone walk around in power armors is silly? The game was entirely designed for offline, single-player campaign, there would have more things to redesign and adapt. Messing with the SPECIAL is risky but anything you change in a game when you adapt it to online play, there WILL be people to complain (another completely unrelated example is the PokeMMO, it's pretty much FireRed online but there are changes and not implemented stuff).
I meant the perk overhaul and helmet/body armor redesign. No matter how you look at it, that was an expansion pack. You don't do that shit when you're running a beta.

- Probably to have a pleasurable, balanced game for most people. Yeah, this is tough.
But this isn't really a development goal, it doesn't give you standards to measure your progress.

- Well, dude, I've seen Alphas lasting for more than 4 years. There are several games in Alpha stage after a half dozen years. These things are not defined. And the beta will end when the devs said it ended, not us. They're the ones to estimate development stages, because they're the ones developing.
Yeah, the argument that if the devs say it's a beta than it's a beta is impossible to refute, but I don't think they're using the word in its original meaning because in all honesty there's no actual testing going on... ie. there's no "test a feature, gather feedback, modify feature to match the goals" loop in use anywhere, it's just a bunch of knee-jerk nerfs, buffs and redesigns. All it does is introduce confusion, because I'm pretty sure you're aware that your answers weren't specific at all and nobody including the devs themselves would be able to provide the community with something more satisfactory.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2013, 08:53:10 pm by Nice_Boat »
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Re: Wipe the game or not?
« Reply #117 on: April 27, 2013, 09:48:13 pm »

I honestly think the game would be so much better if we could somehow go back to the end of 2011 right before the wipe happened, and then worked on it from there. Changes from the wipe were very extreme and left a lot of basically half done mechanics in the mix (at least from my Perspective) like AC perks, and kamikazi for example. I know not everything in that update was horrible, but i believe we were really close to something great previously.




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"I am condemned without end." -Crovax
Re: Wipe the game or not?
« Reply #118 on: April 28, 2013, 12:22:56 am »

Some people seem to have forgotten that grind is a crucial part of every mmorpg.
When you think of it grind is the only think that keeps you going.
You grind your weapons,you grind your armor,you grind your drugs,you grind your alts,you grind your fun.

You grind your gear, you grind your alts, you grind it all, and there you have...

The Facts of Fonline.

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I wish there were bags, backpacks, etc. in Fonline.
Re: Wipe the game or not?
« Reply #119 on: April 28, 2013, 09:44:40 am »

i thought this post was if people agree to wipe the game or not :S

a big wipe with some big changesd will make this game better ,, and stop with these stupied devs ideas
« Last Edit: April 28, 2013, 09:48:09 am by Lotus_ »
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