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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => General Game Discussion => Topic started by: JovankaB on January 11, 2013, 08:58:17 am

Title: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: JovankaB on January 11, 2013, 08:58:17 am
Farming exploits should be removed (like distress call - in theory a feature in practice an exploit)

^ Please note: this is my personal opinion not opinion of whole dev team.
Title: Re: Distress call, alt abuse tool
Post by: Cyber Jesus on January 11, 2013, 09:06:37 am
First farming exploits would have to be removed (like distress call - in theory a feature in practice an exploit)
Yes nerf everything possible.Nerf exping make the exp requirement to 9000K to reach lvl24 and make every critter bring 1exp per kill.
Title: Re: Distress call, alt abuse tool
Post by: DeputyDope on January 11, 2013, 09:42:34 am
First farming exploits would have to be removed (like distress call - in theory a feature in practice an exploit)

remove distressing? are you out your mind?
Title: Re: Distress call, alt abuse tool
Post by: T-888 on January 11, 2013, 10:52:20 am
First farming exploits would have to be removed (like distress call - in theory a feature in practice an exploit)

How it is an exploit?
Title: Re: Distress call, alt abuse tool
Post by: JovankaB on January 11, 2013, 10:54:42 am
remove distressing? are you out your mind?

Encounters are scaled for a reason. Distress is used to reduce scaling, as well as for many other abuses with alts during xping/farming/encounter pvp.

There is really very little legitimate use for this. People who died don't have radios anyway. If you farm with friends and someone dies, you can meet in car location or the nearest town. Instead of distress, encounters could stay on map if you die until you visit some other location that isn't forced encounter, so people could return to group more easily.
Title: Re: Distress call, alt abuse tool
Post by: T-888 on January 11, 2013, 11:08:58 am
Manipulating scaling isn't what I would call an exploit.

If someone "exploits" distress by reducing scaling he reduces reward, so it kinda balances out. It's generally more profitable and better to increase it, but that's also balanced out by the difficulty of the encounter.

There is really very little legitimate use for this.

Your not always close to a city or have a car, also distress is majorly used in Turn-Based related activities very actively and removing it would just hurt it unnecessarily.

Seems like you are re-inventing a wheel, waste of time.

Better go and finish crafting system.
Title: Re: Distress call, alt abuse tool
Post by: Skycast on January 11, 2013, 03:39:43 pm
Distress is used to reduce scaling, as well as for many other abuses with alts during xping/farming/encounter pvp.
Again same shit, problem not in this feature but abusing it by alts. Stop thinking about nerfing features, nerf alting instead. Cant belive that Atom too lazy to write 50 lines of code...
Title: Re: Distress call, alt abuse tool
Post by: DeputyDope on January 11, 2013, 05:19:13 pm
instead of discussing idea you're arguing about using radio as exploit. jesus ...

jovanka can't sleep at night thinking there might be a few noobs that use radio distresses to make their farming a little easier.
Title: Re: Distress call, alt abuse tool
Post by: Roachor on January 11, 2013, 06:18:37 pm
Scaling has nothing to do with the strength of the player anyways, I can get huge encounters using ghoul mercs but that doesn't mean I stand a chance.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Crazy on January 11, 2013, 06:36:20 pm
Removing this great GrosQ's idea? That would be sad. And making everyone farm with bombers is not the way to go. Farming with friend can be fun, that would make it annoying.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: davrot on January 11, 2013, 06:39:31 pm
Your existence as a 2238 developer is an abuse in human reasoning.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: JovankaB on January 11, 2013, 06:46:52 pm
Removing this great GrosQ's idea? That would be sad. And making everyone farm with bombers is not the way to go. Farming with friend can be fun, that would make it annoying.

OK but was this idea made as a loophole for encounter scaling and to abuse faming/xping/tb pvp with alts?
Because that's the main use of it.

If you farm with a friend and some of you die it doesn't work that great because the person has to get a radio.
I think it would be better if you could see encounter that still exists after death and make it disappear if you
visit public location/base/tent/car.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Enzotainment on January 11, 2013, 06:56:39 pm
Might it instead be possible to have a maximum to the amount of people able to enter a distress point? Lets say equal to the amount that originally found the encounter: 2 people find an enco, distress, 2 more enter, thus locking the distress signal for more.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Kelin on January 11, 2013, 06:57:38 pm
If you farm with a friend and some of you die it doesn't work that great because the person has to get a radio.
Yes, but if you farm with a friend and some of you accidentally run from the encounter it does help a lot, mainly when there is no public location around.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: JovankaB on January 11, 2013, 07:02:43 pm
Yes, but if you farm with a friend and some of you accidentally run from the encounter it does help a lot, mainly when there is no public location around.

Well, I see no problem with keeping circle as long as you don't visit any other location.
And making it disappear after a minute if you stay on WM.

I think it would be a lot better than the abusable in multiple ways radio.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: T-888 on January 11, 2013, 07:12:19 pm
OK but was this idea made as a loophole for encounter scaling and to abuse faming/xping/tb pvp with alts?

Oh no, guys use a taxi with distress to join a turn-based battle again, what exploit. Some guys make encounters easy or hard depending on the reward.

Gaining experience with the help of distress can be neglected if the application just ignored mercenaries, slaves for scaling, anyway that's just fast leveling and since leveling in this game is just pure brain-damaging grind, I don't mind some loophole for that.

Your trying to improve things that are already working good or at least decent, but you completely ignore things that aren't even finished, like crafting, trading, just go do something useful.

If you farm with a friend and some of you die it doesn't work that great because the person has to get a radio.

... and radios are like hard to come by, the guy needs to get something. Holy shit.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: JovankaB on January 11, 2013, 07:14:15 pm
... and radios are like hard to come by, the guy needs to get something. Holy shit.

I get you probably have a base full of items on each respawn but not everyone is in such comfortable situation.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: j4cky on January 11, 2013, 07:18:48 pm
jov radios is used for farming and lvling and for TB fights. tb fights are almost dead and u want to finish them. good job!
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: T-888 on January 11, 2013, 07:25:42 pm
I get you probably have a base full of items on each respawn but not everyone is in such comfortable situation.

No I don't have base near each re-spawn, but it's not very hard to go to an actual base/tent and grab a radio, if not then just find your friend the old fashion way, just go back to the square. There is no need for some open encounters on world map or something, you can find anyone in a square, but if you have a radio it just makes things more comfortable.

Radios are by the way useful as real distress, I remember leveling at start of Wipe with my teammates and we had radios in hand and as soon as one of us got into trouble, it was one distress for immediate ass-kicking.

No idea why the hate on the radios.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Alvarez on January 11, 2013, 07:26:32 pm
I can see this nerf with the next update, because noone from the devs won't give a shit about players' opinion on this topic.
*spits on ground*
Way to go, dev, way to go...
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: DeputyDope on January 11, 2013, 07:29:26 pm
the only person agreeing with this suggestion is Jovanka and so far she didn't offer ONE SINGLE GOOD ARGUMENT as to why distressing should be removed. the only argument is that this "abuses" encounter scaling, and this argument was countered by T-888's "less reward" argument. there's no point in discussing this further.

also what's the point in removing a feature that has been around for years and nobody complained about?

have fun destroying TB PvP/PvE.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Eternauta on January 11, 2013, 07:32:27 pm
Scrapping radio distress would harm the possibility of teamwork in 2238, which is already low. We can level up on our own, we can hunt on our own, craft on our own... "Factions" and "gangs" exist only on the battlefield: the only real teamplay in 2238 is the fight during TC, making it even more that way would, again, harm the game seriously.

OK but was this idea made as a loophole for encounter scaling and to abuse...

Quote
...farming...

As T-888 said, at the cost of a smaller reward, or maybe more exactly a lower loot rate. I don't see anything wrong with using distress for this: weaker characters can hunt in a group and kill smaller NPC groups, while more powerful characters are able to solo huge "vs encounters". Removing distress would just make it harder for the less experienced players and/or players with the weakest builds: players would pretty much be forced (or at least encouraged) to only hunt with minimaxed super-laser-fastshooters or unstoppable BG tanks. I am aware such builds are aready used, but right now radio distress allows you to join your Mad Max Wannabe pals with your own Mad Max Wannabe build and defeat a Unity or NCR Army patrol.

Again: teamwork would be harmed because we'd have less lowlevel characters hunting together, and more level 24 ultra energy warriors and human tanks choked up on their ten drugs killing all NPCs in the enc and then looting them with their packrat alt which can't join through distress anymore but can lead the other alt into the encounter via duallogging :P

Quote
...xping...

There is really no fun way to level up quickly, in a game where you're encouraged to level up your character(s) before playing "serious". So the problem is not exactly in the radio distress feature.

Quote
...tb pvp...

TB PvP is like a whole separated minigame played by some dedicated guys. I would like to know what those experienced ones think about distressing for TB PvP. I do remember a player made a TB PvP "event" of sorts which was started by distressing in a specific radio channel (not 0) so anyone interested could join.

Quote
If you farm with a friend and some of you die it doesn't work that great because the person has to get a radio.

But deleting the whole distress system would make it even more difficult to rejoin.

Quote
I think it would be better if you could see encounter that still exists after death and make it disappear if you
visit public location/base/tent/car.

Just wanted to say I agree with this idea.

I get you probably have a base full of items on each respawn but not everyone is in such comfortable situation.

Deleting radio distress would only make it harder for the players that have less while annoying experienced players and metagamers.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: JovankaB on January 11, 2013, 07:43:53 pm
TB PvP is like a whole separated minigame played by some dedicated guys.

No it's not. It can happen to anyone who is inside TB encounter.
I get some people don't count "accidentally shooting noobs" as real PvP, but it is PvP.
And if some abuser brings more alts to such encounter to win, it's simply unfair.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Crovax on January 11, 2013, 07:47:20 pm
If you remove radio you remove our ability to enter an encounter one at a time and force us to enter grouped up thus destroying TB pvp. If we had to enter as a group we would all just die to burst/plasma nades before we even get to act. Also we cant call our friends in and get stuck in traps without the ability to call for backup.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: JovankaB on January 11, 2013, 07:49:11 pm
If you remove radio you remove our ability to enter an encounter one at a time and force us to enter grouped up thus destroying TB pvp. If we had to enter as a group we would all just die to burst/plasma nades before we even get to act. Also we cant call our friends in and get stuck in traps without the ability to call for backup.

Then perhaps entrances for existing encounters (if you find them not get enforced into it) should be around the map, near the edges not in the center. Thanks for ideas, and pointing out possible problems, keep them coming!
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: T-888 on January 11, 2013, 07:55:12 pm
And if some abuser brings more alts to such encounter to win, it's simply unfair.

That's a completely different problem with those more alts, but players always had the ability to re-gear and re-enter a turn-based location to continue fighting and so far it has been working just fine and nobody has complained about it.

Disabling this option will seriously tamper with TB, I can't imagine proper TB without distress. I'm not some experienced player of that mode, but you don't have to be to realize it's important to not fuck it up.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Crovax on January 11, 2013, 07:58:13 pm
Then we are still forced to use taxi alts which will end up being someone dual logging because they wanna be able to fight too. Even without removing radio the placement system could still be improved on. Maybe groups could enter a little spread out.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: DeputyDope on January 11, 2013, 07:59:10 pm
I can't imagine proper TB without distress.

i can. and it's shit.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Roachor on January 11, 2013, 08:12:51 pm
Jovanka should focus on making the game worth playing in the first place before trying to make it even more of a shitty pointless grind. Radios are barely used anyways, its not even an issue. Are you really that bored that you have to nerf what little content this game has?
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Eternauta on January 11, 2013, 08:15:18 pm
No it's not. It can happen to anyone who is inside TB encounter.
I get some people don't count "accidentally shooting noobs" as real PvP, but it is PvP.
And if some abuser brings more alts to such encounter to win, it's simply unfair.

I could wear the same clothes everyday and all the time. But it'd be healthier and give me better social results to change and wash them, and use different clothes for different situations. I could follow a highway and travel to a nearby city on foot, but it'd be a lot easier and faster to drive a car or take a bus. The same happens with 2238: one could play with one single character and level it up "normally", that means as one experiences the different things this game has to offer such as TB PvP, trolling in protected towns, Town Control, etc. But most players, once they get some experience in the game (I mean, once *they* do, as players, not their characters), they start using alts and different, more metagaming strategies, because they give better results.

I got a SG burster/fastshooter 3 Charisma character which is fun to play with until I want to team with others to go on a hunt: then it becomes rather useless when compared with better PvE hunting builds.

If I want to try TB PVP, I wouldn't do it with a "bad" build because I have played enough FOnline to know I would be obliterated quickly by people with better builds for TB PvP.

You could try to do TC with non-specialized characters, but don't try to have a chance against TC PVP builds.

All those situations are perfectly possible, but the game still encourages you to make specialized alts and powerlevel them before their "use". It's the way the game works: 2238 is fragmentary because of that. Please note that I am not complaining, or saying "zomg this gaem suks", because I play and enjoy this game. I am just explaining why I said TB PvP was a minigame.

But anyway, I commented on different things you had said about "abusing distress", and that is all you have to reply?
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: A concerned wastelander on January 11, 2013, 08:16:53 pm
Removing the distress signal would be sad, its a good feature.

There is so many ways to farm npcs by exploiting, I would just REMOVE ALL LOOT FROM NCPS.

Free npcs loot farming ruins the economy.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Crovax on January 11, 2013, 08:20:00 pm
Just try to remember that some of us do actually enjoy TB more that real time and this is one of our main tools. Also while we are on the TB subject, maybe since AC didn't work out so well we could have our beloved kamikazi trait back?
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Eternauta on January 11, 2013, 08:24:17 pm
I get some people don't count "accidentally shooting noobs" as real PvP, but it is PvP.
And if some abuser brings more alts to such encounter to win, it's simply unfair.

And I wanted to add one thing about this: I do consider "noobs", NCR idlers, hybrid build user, and "Mad Max Wannabes" as part of the game, in fact I do go to NCR, I consider myself quite nooby, I use and enjoy hybrid builds and I have been called a Mad Max Wannabe myself. It all allows me to understand how disabling radio distress would mostly harm the noob's gaming experience. It's an amazing tool to gather up with other people and play together instead of doing everything on your own like this game encourages us to do, most of the time.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Perteks on January 11, 2013, 08:38:55 pm
You guys srsly?
I have only one thing to add

This is what i think about that topic (http://www.pown.it/1681)
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Mayck on January 11, 2013, 08:46:17 pm
I guess Jovanka couldn't expect much less butthurt when attempting to take out the safest and fastest way to get gear.

It all allows me to understand how disabling radio distress would mostly harm the noob's gaming experience. It's an amazing tool to gather up with other people and play together instead of doing everything on your own like this game encourages us to do, most of the time.
Well perhaps then it could be allowed on empty encounter maps...
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Giftless on January 11, 2013, 08:46:41 pm
Removing the distress signal would be sad, its a good feature.

There is so many ways to farm npcs by exploiting, I would just REMOVE ALL LOOT FROM NCPS.

Free npcs loot farming ruins the economy.

Terrible idea here, you'd give people no reason to do PvE versus difficult NPCs. Who's going to want to risk losing equipment against uberbuff patrols? If exp is the only motivation, you can get that on molerats.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Mayck on January 11, 2013, 08:51:11 pm
Terrible idea here, you'd give people no reason to do PvE versus difficult NPCs. Who's going to want to risk losing equipment against uberbuff patrols? If exp is the only motivation, you can get that on molerats.
The existence of distress basically nullifies all attempts that could be taken to actually balance out those encounters... without it those patrols could actually become less uberpuff eventually...
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Crovax on January 11, 2013, 08:53:23 pm
I guess Jovanka couldn't expect much less butthurt when attempting to take out the safest and fastest way to get gear.

I see it more like putting the final nail in the coffin of TB pvp as far as fighting group vs group. Without radio if u enc a group and your alone you just die and have no chance to call friends to make a worthwhile battle. For me it has nothing to do with gear i can farm that solo without a radio...
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Eternauta on January 11, 2013, 08:54:43 pm
I guess Jovanka couldn't expect much less butthurt when attempting to take out the safest and fastest way to get gear.
Well perhaps then it could be allowed on empty encounter maps...

Distress on empty maps so your friends come and you can look for encounters all together, did I understand right? It has already been said: that would make people dual-log to use taxi alts and still be able to fight with PvE builds. And make it harder for characters with lower level.

Five level 12 hybrid characters with grease guns, shotguns and hunting rifles don't have the same chance against 10 Unity Patrol members, than one single level 24 specialized fastshooter with laser rifle. If you remove distressing, who would have a harder time trying to hunt with friends: the guy with the 54389595 alts who could solo the enc and get gear by himself anyway, or the group of Mad Max Wannabes that can hardly kill a group of Khans?
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Giftless on January 11, 2013, 08:57:50 pm
By the way, I'm adding my thumbs down to the Distress Call nerfing too. As others have said, monster BG tanks and fast-shot builds don't even have to use it to power-farm, so all you would be doing is hurting the turn-based PvP and the little people.

Edit: What Eternauta said.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Giftless on January 11, 2013, 09:07:46 pm
The existence of distress basically nullifies all attempts that could be taken to actually balance out those encounters... without it those patrols could actually become less uberpuff eventually...

I dunno, I think there's other issues in how the patrols scale up. Right now they're designed to murder single players, but if you get two friends to tag you the combat goes like a hot knife through butter. You know the number of enemies doesn't always scale right even without using radio? Sometimes three players will encounter thirty patrol men, at other times they'll encounter two. And I'll tell you what, when I see that congo line of thirty, I feel like I'm being abused by the game and not the other way around.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Crovax on January 11, 2013, 09:13:10 pm
Besides who is abusing scaling anyways? AFAIK if u want to farm from those uber encounters just take a thief with some dynamite and claim your free gatlings and avengers. Personally I only use radio for pvp and keeping parties together without having to meet up everytime someone forgets to press follow.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Brujah on January 11, 2013, 09:16:54 pm
I completely disagree.


How am I supposed to warp my own alts into my encounters without distress?


You want to remove "abuses" that ended up as necessities then find us a way to actually only need 1 alt for every single situation.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Eternauta on January 11, 2013, 09:18:18 pm
Crovax is right. "Getting gear" is not fucked up by hunting with your pals using radio distress. Stealing has a lot more negative impact on the game than distressing.

If distressing is removed, we'd see the same amount of powerplayers stealing from NPCs, and more rookies dying everytime they want to hunt with their friends. Also without distress we could forget about radios altogether because distressing is what makes radios compete with IRC and voice communication a little bit.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Ganado on January 11, 2013, 09:19:12 pm
I totally agree with Crovax, that is not a solution. It would just destroy TB PvP and teamwork for the aforementioned reasons. And I agree with Eternauta's reasoning, too. It does seem like you are instigating a problem when there really isn't one...

Radios actually aren't even calibrated right and need to be boosted... you can distress for 10[?] minutes, but the ability to be encountered is longer than the distress life, meaning that there are many times when you enter into a trap and it is too late to call for help, meaning you're screwed. It should be equal.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Brujah on January 11, 2013, 09:22:27 pm
The existence of distress basically nullifies all attempts that could be taken to actually balance out those encounters... without it those patrols could actually become less uberpuff eventually...

We need that gear from uberpatrols and we need it now, no time to wait for rebalancing and updates.


If coordenating several alts at the same time while risking to lose the equipment on each of them doesn't make me worthy of a broken avenger that will break before I run out of ammo then I don't know what will.


And devs, remember something about your playerbase: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pm4fQRl72k
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: avv on January 11, 2013, 09:26:47 pm
Stop moaning. Distress is highly abusable in tb pvp and in pve you basically can't die because of it. Has some good sides yea, but needs to be looked into anyhow.

However, no nerfing without tradeoffs. We abuse distress because:

1. Carryweight is limited. Chars need to have higher default cw. What kind of pve is it if we can't loot? Lowest cw is 18 and with that you can barely carry your own gear. Raise it to 100 for all, big deal. Small frame can do something else like cause knockdowns easier.

2. Encs are too powerful. Enclave has 500 hps and super tough armor. Needs to have normal hps, max 280 and equal builds to players'. If they are on drugs, they best drop these drugs too.

3. Mobs are sometimes too many, forcing retreat or abuse. They need to be less per player, or if their hps are reduced and maps allow more options, not necessarily needed.

4. Maps are not always fair. Being blasted right away on open ground isn't fun. There is no escape. That's why urban encounters are funnier. Desert maps need cover.

5. Npc ai is linear. They always know where you are, making rt fighting rather simplistic and favouring tank-onehex builds. Npc could sometimes lose their track to the player, making them choose a wrong turn when looking for him.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Brujah on January 11, 2013, 09:35:06 pm
5. Npc ai is linear. They always know where you are, making rt fighting rather simplistic and favouring tank-onehex builds. Npc could sometimes lose their track to the player, making them choose a wrong turn when looking for him.

Hmm yes... BG companions with low PE run straight to 1hexing, they technically can't see it but run towards it anyway.


Adding NPC sight would be interesting, make NPCs be sniped while walking around wondering what's happening.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Crovax on January 11, 2013, 09:35:16 pm
Like I said before some of us like to play TB more than we like rt and we use this for our pvp. just because people are exploiting doesn't mean we should suffer for it. We already lost a lot with the removal of caravans, nerfing of bonus move, kamikaze becoming a useless trait, ect. Everytime there is a wipe TB loses a significant feature it seems like.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: The DUDE on January 11, 2013, 09:46:37 pm
radio is needed to make balance on the badly scaled npc mobs. who can solo vc patrol/unity/ncr army/'bos/enclave when you encounter completely unbalanced amounts of guys. for example, enclave solo enc 1-3, bos is something like 1-5, with one hex 2 shot burst your still not going to do very well in those encounters, and once you hit -reputation its going to be even crappier fights or you change location and farm something else.

its also highly vital to turn based pvp, also as someone said previous(i think abe) the radio distress timer, needs to be the same as the timer for the encounter.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: JovankaB on January 11, 2013, 10:01:23 pm
Like I said before

Repeating stuff is not necessary. People who make sense kind of stand out in this thread, so don't worry.

I agree TB PvP needs more love, but not in a way where just people (or person) who can bring more alts
win and the way radio works helps with that immensely.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Brujah on January 11, 2013, 10:09:18 pm
radio is needed to make balance on the badly scaled npc mobs. who can solo vc patrol/unity/ncr army/'bos/enclave when you encounter completely unbalanced amounts of guys. for example, enclave solo enc 1-3, bos is something like 1-5, with one hex 2 shot burst your still not going to do very well in those encounters, and once you hit -reputation its going to be even crappier fights or you change location and farm something else.

its also highly vital to turn based pvp, also as someone said previous(i think abe) the radio distress timer, needs to be the same as the timer for the encounter.


Nah any fool can solo vc patrol/unity/ncr army/bos, it's the Enclave that needs nerfing.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Alvarez on January 11, 2013, 10:20:24 pm
Kudos to Eternauta, Crovax, Mayck and others in this thread giving valuable arguments against TB nerfing.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Cyber Jesus on January 11, 2013, 10:22:43 pm
To me enclave is one of the easiest encounters to farm.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Mike Crosser on January 12, 2013, 01:47:52 am
h come on,this is plain ridiculous.
I've never even seen or even heard someone using distress to abuse this(sure I've seen some people entering the encounter but it was only due to the fact they were left behind and needed to find the group)
In fact I've seen people bringing noobs form ncr (such as myself) just to increase the size of the encounter to get more loot.
This feature is fine the way it is.
I know my argument is weak,but Jovankas is even weaker.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Michaelh139 on January 12, 2013, 02:36:40 am
To nerf radio distress in any way would be pants on head retarded.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Alexandrite on January 12, 2013, 02:53:00 am
Don't take away another good feature, this game is already missing the good stuff...

I like distressed signals, I don't see any exploit...

Only exploit is if you multi-log or something...
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: j4cky on January 12, 2013, 03:13:45 am
but not in a way where just people (or person) who can bring more alts win

hehehe jov better look at rt tc ;D leave poor tb fighters alone. no one was crying about tb abuse. tc with legal fast relogs is just crazy. i am glad me and fireboy were final nail in coffin of nerfing mercs after redding tc. tb pvp players need more attention and new features, not nerfing last bastion of their fun
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Wind_Drift on January 12, 2013, 03:18:37 am
This game has a long list of features and mechanics that are able to be abused.  Using radio distresses to bypass encounter scaling is somewhere down near the bottom of that list, if it makes the list at all.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Eternauta on January 12, 2013, 04:05:09 am
bring more alts

Clearly the problem is *not* the radio distress feature, but Fast Relog. If you want to attack abuses in TB PvP, do not scrap distressing, but fast relogging. For example I remember you Jovanka suggested some cooldown to be imposed to characters when we log in to them, and in the same thread it was said the cooldown should make it impossible for that character to attack.

the way radio works helps with that immensely.

You say repeating is not necessary, but still you seem to have not read: you can take away distressing but that would only harm "Mad Max Wannabes". The pr0s can solo almost anything, hunt with bombers and/or use thieves. So deleting radio distress won't prevent players to get gear too easily. Take away distressing, and people like me who just like to hunt along with newbies will have to walk around the square where your pal told you to go on some IRC channel, hoping you will eventually fall into his encounter.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Marko on January 12, 2013, 04:15:08 am
We need Avenger blueprints. We need advanced chemical components. We found Jet blueprints but still can't make Jet after a year. We need the BoS quest-line extended and that points system developed so we can trade BoS points for blueprints like the BoS says. Geiger counters still don't work, and i still can't paste info into holotapes. The VTDB feature is kinda hosed too, and players continue to die death by lag. Yet still...i have no complaints.

Player base is way down, and where are the caps for solo'ish players? (Don't bother answering that). When we drop gecko pelts on the ground, after 3 years they still look like a Fed-X package instead of the right image. Yet still...i have no complaints.

But Jova, if you mess up this feature, i swear i might finally complain ;). You added that new encounter and everyone loved it. Can you do more of that please? Instead of messing with such an important and beloved feature? Remember the solo players and new guys trying to get a new faction going, not using voice chat yet, nor irc. That radio distress thing is warmly welcomed by all first-timers, guys who haven't even considered abusing it - they simply see the benefits of being able to call in their level 5 buddies to have a fighting chance against a simple [but deadly] raider group.

So please...develop some stuff! You're good at it! Give the game more firetruck thingies! Surprises! New maps! More quests! This game is wide open. Just please don't close it by crippling yet another "good thing".
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Alexandrite on January 12, 2013, 04:31:01 am
Not to mention all the other things not implemented, such as crafting meds(buffout, mentats, etc.), and some other things I can't remember...
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Trokanis on January 12, 2013, 05:44:02 am
I use Distress call to help my buddy, I don't think it should be another feature removed from the game because some group of noobs abuses it to get a weaker encounter with less loot.  It has a clear useful purpose and the 'exploit' is next to useless anyway.  Please realize there are some of us who actually play the game and it's features, and stop punishing us.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: T-888 on January 12, 2013, 07:12:26 am
Repeating stuff is not necessary. People who make sense kind of stand out in this thread, so don't worry.

I agree TB PvP needs more love, but not in a way where just people (or person) who can bring more alts
win and the way radio works helps with that immensely.

That is not a solution to strap features.

Don't want players to bring immense amount of alts to TB battles? Do something about FR, now you are stripping the server from features because of it and will continue to do so. If you can't fix FR, don't remove features because of it.

Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: ronillon on January 12, 2013, 07:34:15 am
We need Avenger blueprints. We need advanced chemical components. We found Jet blueprints but still can't make Jet after a year. We need the BoS quest-line extended and that points system developed so we can trade BoS points for blueprints like the BoS says. Geiger counters still don't work, and i still can't paste info into holotapes. The VTDB feature is kinda hosed too, and players continue to die death by lag. Yet still...i have no complaints.

Player base is way down, and where are the caps for solo'ish players? (Don't bother answering that). When we drop gecko pelts on the ground, after 3 years they still look like a Fed-X package instead of the right image. Yet still...i have no complaints.

But Jova, if you mess up this feature, i swear i might finally complain ;). You added that new encounter and everyone loved it. Can you do more of that please? Instead of messing with such an important and beloved feature? Remember the solo players and new guys trying to get a new faction going, not using voice chat yet, nor irc. That radio distress thing is warmly welcomed by all first-timers, guys who haven't even considered abusing it - they simply see the benefits of being able to call in their level 5 buddies to have a fighting chance against a simple [but deadly] raider group.

So please...develop some stuff! You're good at it! Give the game more firetruck thingies! Surprises! New maps! More quests! This game is wide open. Just please don't close it by crippling yet another "good thing".

I could not express it better. +1
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Slaver Snipe on January 12, 2013, 09:31:29 am
Don't remove distress completely, just make the encounters able to distress stronger versions of themselves if the players do it.

1 player distressed in=no change
2 players distressed in=npc's go hostile immediately (why wouldn't they when they see you gathering an army of friends to rape them) with a 25% possibility of the npc's distressing allies in
3 players=50% possibility
4+players=100%possibility that also improves those that are distressed in compared to the average group. (per person distressed so 4th person would be a new npc group 5th person a new npc group etc.)

The numbers are just examples but if you ever let it hit a 1 player to 2 npc ratio the fight is just a joke.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Mrockatansky on January 12, 2013, 10:51:12 am
Jovanka, why do you hate us?
People who make sense kind of stand out in this thread.
You don't. Why should anybody else.
Im not even saying
'Go fix broken things.'
because you won't
Stick to sewerrats and brahmins if you are bored.
:3

where your pal told you to go on some IRC channel, hoping you will eventually fall into his encounter.

Maybe think about nerfing forestnet instead? If i caught your basic idea of the game correctly, it goes clearly out of roleplay if i can interact in any way with any other player.


Seriously Jovanka, wtf?
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Lordus on January 12, 2013, 11:04:26 am
I dont like lynching, because individual gets carried away by a crowd, but in this case.. :)

JovankaB, what position in your personal chart occupies your current idea? Is it above or under the "NameColourizing abuse?"
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Surf on January 12, 2013, 11:22:29 am
If people going alone in harder encounters to distress their friends in so it gets easy, why not give the higher tier enemies a distress function too? If an npc group with good enough gear gets attacked, they place a distress beacon and the player is given a time window before they spawn in the encounter. Ofcourse not the best solution, but a lot better than scrapping the feauture, which I find pretty absurd.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Alvarez on January 12, 2013, 02:19:52 pm
Go on, Jovanka.
 
I dare you to meet 'this' unpopular decision.
You will have to listen to the community, don't you think it will swallow everything you dish out.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Crovax on January 12, 2013, 02:36:53 pm
I agree TB PvP needs more love

I don't really think that distressing is the problem at all for abusing TB. The biggest abuse IMO for TB pvp would have to be dual logging, and I think if I'm not mistaken (maybe someone knows more than I do who can clarify) you can use cars in distress encounters to see the encounter after you die. The ways things seem to be at the moment It's possible to just log as many chars as you can handle without making the game unplayable from lag and get them all in an encounter and pvp against someone with an army of alts. So that being said I think its the FR and dual logging that is the real problem.

Another thing about TB that kinda sucks is placement, it seems to me that if you could have more random spawns and possibly spawn behind cover it could be really nice. And the way you spawn in with your friends/followers just makes you extremely vulnerable. Other than that all I can think of at the moment is sequencing and how a player gets put into the sequencing when he enters a battle that is already started.
Title: Re: Distress call, alt abuse tool
Post by: DocAN. on January 12, 2013, 03:05:47 pm
Again same shit, problem not in this feature but abusing it by alts. Stop thinking about nerfing features, nerf alting instead.

100 % Agree !!
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Brujah on January 12, 2013, 03:08:26 pm
I miss GM Jovanka... Dev Jovanka will kill us all  :-\



To me enclave is one of the easiest encounters to farm.

So you would have no problem with killing enclave patrol with only ONE alt with me as witness?


Oh and no cheesy tactics, a simple PVE big gunner and tons of SS.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Cyber Jesus on January 12, 2013, 03:17:58 pm
So you would have no problem with killing enclave patrol with only ONE alt with me as witness?
(http://fo2238.fodev.net/wiki/images/1/16/Dynamit.gif)
Yep I have no problem farming enclave, I said they are easy to farm not kill with a big gunner. Different tactics for different NPC's.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Brujah on January 12, 2013, 05:11:32 pm
(http://fo2238.fodev.net/wiki/images/1/16/Dynamit.gif)
Yep I have no problem farming enclave, I said they are easy to farm not kill with a big gunner. Different tactics for different NPC's.

I consider dynamite pickpocketing as much exploit as distressing several alts into your encounter.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Eternauta on January 12, 2013, 05:17:34 pm
I really hope radio distressing is not scrapped, especially when some alternatives have already been mentioned in this very thread, like reworking spawning points, NPC reinforcements in random encounters. Those are interesting ideas and so are avv's, for example the change in AI.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: JovankaB on January 12, 2013, 05:20:42 pm
Except for the idea for "NPC reinforcements" those were not alternatives to radio scrapping,
it was things that should be done along with radio scrapping.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Eternauta on January 12, 2013, 05:24:14 pm
should be done along with radio scrapping.

Would you be able to make a comment in which you answered our arguments against scrapping distress, point by point?
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: DeputyDope on January 12, 2013, 05:24:42 pm
Except for the idea for "NPC reinforcements" those were not alternatives to radio scrapping,
it was things that should be done along with radio scrapping.

i agree. this game is too much fun. everything good or fun about this game should be disabled.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: FrankenStone on January 12, 2013, 06:05:50 pm
yeah make wipe already this game is too easy and remove lvl2 crafting things becauze its too eazy ...
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: codave on January 12, 2013, 06:33:24 pm
i agree. this game is too much fun. everything good or fun about this game should be disabled.

I agree. I had fun once. It was terrible.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Alvarez on January 12, 2013, 06:39:07 pm
I don't think Jovanka can be reasoned with.

Just out of spite or PMS, the radio distress will be scrapped. Because a dev said so. And remember when the NC was scrapped, too? Everybody was raging and still rage and what changed? Nothing.
"Some plebs will always play 2238", this seems to be the motto! You just are unable to ragequit all at once, so bon appetite, i hope you like the taste of this steaming pile, players! >:(
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Mike Crosser on January 12, 2013, 06:48:28 pm
This discussion is and has been over for a long time.
No need for votes,95% of the posts on this thread are against distress removal.
The players have spoken.

And even if you do implement it,not only will you get more whine posts/threads you'll also see some players leaving.


PS whats NC?
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Alvarez on January 12, 2013, 07:00:32 pm
Name colorising. A horrible exploit making names of your friends/foes/whoever to be shown in different colours.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Gimper on January 12, 2013, 07:09:54 pm
I don't think Jovanka can be reasoned with.

Just out of spite or PMS, the radio distress will be scrapped. Because a dev said so. And remember when the NC was scrapped, too? Everybody was raging and still rage and what changed? Nothing.
"Some plebs will always play 2238", this seems to be the motto! You just are unable to ragequit all at once, so bon appetite, i hope you like the taste of this steaming pile, players! >:(
Agreed. Fonline is no more since this "promotion".
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Michaelh139 on January 12, 2013, 07:38:37 pm
locked, junk locked, removed on changelog.

Zing!
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Alvarez on January 12, 2013, 07:40:35 pm
Agreed. Fonline is no more since this "promotion".

No.
The most disgusting thing is, she will do as he pleases, there will be rage and everyone will be pissed. But everyone will keep on playing.

And then, im against scrapping implemented suggestions, because it undermines the credibility of developers.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Wipe on January 12, 2013, 07:44:13 pm
I don't think Jovanka can be reasoned with.
Nice try, but no banana; even if first post here is made by JovankaB, it doesn't mean that she's the only one who see distress *in current form* as feature having bad impact on specific game elements - even if i won't count myself.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: DeputyDope on January 12, 2013, 07:50:31 pm
people have complained about the lack of crafting materials for an year now. nobody has complained about distress signals for years.

makes perfect sense to remove a perfectly good feature, and not fix incomplete/bad features.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Wipe on January 12, 2013, 07:51:44 pm
nobody has complained about distress signals for years
Who would kill a duck giving gold eggs?
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: davrot on January 12, 2013, 07:52:11 pm
Nice try, but no banana; even if first post here is made by JovankaB, it doesn't mean that she's the only one who see distress *in current form* as feature having bad impact on specific game elements...

Then sneak remove it as you always do.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Wipe on January 12, 2013, 07:53:30 pm
Then sneak remove it as you always do.
"Sneak remove" after 6 pages long thread. Sir, come back with some brains, please.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: DeputyDope on January 12, 2013, 07:54:21 pm
"Sneak remove" after 6 pages long thread. Sir, come back with some brains, please.

Sir, come back with some common sense. Because you don't seem to have any. there is absolutely NO POINT in removing a feature that 99% of this serves likes/uses. end of story.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Gimper on January 12, 2013, 07:56:33 pm
Nice try, but no banana; even if first post here is made by JovankaB, it doesn't mean that she's the only one who see distress *in current form* as feature having bad impact on specific game elements - even if i won't count myself.
Alright, then who ELSE AGREES WITH HER?!!??!
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Bego on January 12, 2013, 07:57:42 pm
"Sneak remove" after 6 pages long thread. Sir, come back with some brains, please.

Sir, come back with some useful fixes, please.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Cyber Jesus on January 12, 2013, 07:58:29 pm
Alright, then who ELSE AGREES WITH HER?!!??!
I do, its way too fun to farm stuff with friends. Remove it!
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: davrot on January 12, 2013, 07:59:01 pm
"Sneak remove" after 6 pages long thread. Sir, come back with some brains, please.
This thread wouldn't exist if Jovanka didn't casually mention removal of radio distress. And how about you come back with a FOnline server that doesn't suck?
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: DeputyDope on January 12, 2013, 08:02:06 pm
And how about you come back with a FOnline server that doesn't suck?

let's rephase this, shall we?

how about you come back with a FOnline server that actually listens to the players and encourages dev-player communication?
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Mike Crosser on January 12, 2013, 08:02:58 pm
people have complained about the lack of crafting materials for an year now. nobody has complained about distress signals for years.

makes perfect sense to remove a perfectly good feature, and not fix incomplete/bad features.
Dope is right,please take a look around.No one wants this,this isn't even a good exploit seeing how this being used as a farming tool will bring fairly little reward.


But go ahead,remove it and then watch all the good work you've done so far disappear in the endless flame if player driven rage and butthurt. 
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Wipe on January 12, 2013, 08:05:53 pm
Sir, come back with some useful fixes, please.
I do them all the time, fact that players don't see difference between "useful" and "visible in client" is not my problem.

This thread wouldn't exist if Jovanka didn't casually mention removal of radio distress
Distress has been discussed for long before end of last year; there is no accident in here :P
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Crovax on January 12, 2013, 08:11:05 pm
Other than scaling what is being affected in a bad way by distressing? Why do the encounters need to scale anyways, couldn't they just range from easy to hard in that easy ones are soloable and hard ones are just pre scaled in a way that u need a group or its just not going to be easy? Seems like all the arguments against distressing end up being really another thing that needs fixed instead of distress being removed.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: kox on January 12, 2013, 08:16:12 pm
Farming exploits should be removed (like distress call - in theory a feature in practice an exploit)

^ Please note: this is my personal opinion not opinion of whole dev team.

ok i report u to moderator...such a trollin uhhh
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Gimper on January 12, 2013, 08:30:57 pm
Yeah I got a warning for "trolling" so hopefully everyone else who trolls this thread gets one also.. Sheesh people can be such idiots...
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Wichura on January 12, 2013, 08:33:48 pm
I've heard about this idea, but considered it a joke.

No more.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Kilgore on January 12, 2013, 08:50:51 pm
I've heard about this idea, but considered it a joke.

No more.
Why? I still consider it as a joke. It's a flawless diamond, a high-tech joke..
..distress call being an exploit. What the fuck? I still can't stop laughing, thank you  :)

Remember: no fun allowed =] next time you will remember to close the door to the kitchen.. no offense : P
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Alvarez on January 12, 2013, 08:55:29 pm
Nice try, but no banana; even if first post here is made by JovankaB, it doesn't mean that she's the only one who see distress *in current form* as feature having bad impact on specific game elements - even if i won't count myself.

Look around and offer your banana to every person against radio scrapping if you are so smart.

And dont make me or everybody else look dumb! Who expressed this retarded idea? Jovanka. Where did you commented to this retarded idea, on your supersecretdeveloper conference? Oh, we werent participating, we must be stupid.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: codave on January 12, 2013, 08:57:41 pm
Who would kill a duck giving gold eggs?

Bypassing encounter scaling isn't a duck giving golden eggs.

A duck giving golden eggs is using a large party to increase the NPC spawn so there is a lot more loot.

Less loot being a golden egg is an absurd suggestion on the face of it.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Mayck on January 12, 2013, 09:15:36 pm
Bypassing encounter scaling isn't a duck giving golden eggs.

A duck giving golden eggs is using a large party to increase the NPC spawn so there is a lot more loot.
Maybe when it comes to weak encounters (like NCR army which is laughably easy considering it spawns shitloads of best armors ingame). The golden egg argument is used against strong ones (enclave and similiar).

The point is it is safest and fastest way to get valuable loot.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: T-888 on January 12, 2013, 09:16:30 pm
"Sneak remove" after 6 pages long thread. Sir, come back with some brains, please.

You will just put your opinion higher then the rest of the community and call it a decision made. It doesn't have to be sneaky.

Same thing as old NC, few people in developers don't like it, literally few individuals in the community and majority of community doesn't get to play it despite numbers heavily favoring the feature.

It's simple, if Jovanka, most probably you I can imagine wouldn't put your opinion higher, we would have old NC for sure.

Features like distress can just go away for the same reason someone can't re-implement a good feature what will cost close to zero time as it has already been created long time ago.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Mike Crosser on January 12, 2013, 09:18:17 pm
Maybe when it comes to weak encounters (like NCR army which is laughably easy considering it spawns shitloads of best armors ingame). The golden egg argument is used against strong ones (enclave and similiar).

The point is it is safest and fastest way to get valuable loot.
(http://fo2238.fodev.net/wiki/images/1/16/Dynamit.gif)
Nope
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Mayck on January 12, 2013, 09:20:43 pm
Nope
Let us just ignore broken encounter steal (which shall something be done about in a future)...
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Michaelh139 on January 12, 2013, 09:22:53 pm
Let us just ignore broken encounter steal (which shall something be done about in a future)...
how about you ignore radio distressing instead?

And never remember it again.

(http://mssprojectsanalytics.com/Portals/167901/images/Primavera%20P6%20progress%20line.jpeg)
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Mike Crosser on January 12, 2013, 09:23:34 pm
Let us just ignore broken encounter steal (which shall something be done about in THE* future)...
No,we will not ignore it until it's fixed.It proves you are wrong.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Mayck on January 12, 2013, 09:26:15 pm
No,we will not ignore it until it's fixed.It proves you are wrong.
Why won't you just ignore what Jovanka said about disabling distress then?
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Crovax on January 12, 2013, 09:26:19 pm
Why the hell does loot need to be so hard to get in the first place? Give those enclave guys this enclave armor we heard about so long ago and make them more like ncr army and maybe we can actually farm them without dynamite. And maybe make encounters pre scaled not based on how many players are in the group but based on the desired difficulty of the encounter.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Mike Crosser on January 12, 2013, 09:31:13 pm
Why won't you just ignore what Jovanka said about disabling distress then?
Because if we ignore it,jovanka will remove it.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Alvarez on January 12, 2013, 09:32:31 pm
Why won't you just ignore what Jovanka said about disabling distress then?

Because this idea is bad and is opposed rightfully. By many.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Mayck on January 12, 2013, 09:41:02 pm
Because if we ignore it,jovanka will remove it.
Geez, it's not like it would happen before wipe... and to be honest i doubt the shitstorm that is being performed in here by large part of the posters actually lowers the chance of distress being removed...
(note to that dynaite technique: i actually haven't yet seen the dynamite technique used without combination with distress [i know it can be done without it, but it's mostly not used that way])
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Crovax on January 12, 2013, 09:49:45 pm
But yet there hasn't been a valid reason stated to remove it as far as I have seen.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Alvarez on January 12, 2013, 09:52:07 pm
Geez, it's not like it would happen before wipe...

Bad enough that it is a option at all.

and to be honest i doubt the shitstorm that is being performed in here by large part of the posters actually lowers the chance of distress being removed...

That 'shitstorm' as you called is a expression of protest by players to a stupid idea. Or do you admit to dismiss the opinion of the community as irrelevant? What are you, a politician or something?
Because it happened already with namecolorizing. No more i say.

But yet there hasn't been a valid reason stated to remove it as far as I have seen.

But many valid reasons against removing.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Mayck on January 12, 2013, 09:54:11 pm
But yet there hasn't been a valid reason stated to remove it as far as I have seen.
Inability to loose is not a valid reason?
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: T-888 on January 12, 2013, 09:56:18 pm
Inability to loose is not a valid reason?

What?
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Crovax on January 12, 2013, 09:57:33 pm
Inability to loose is not a valid reason?
It's already been stated that the problems causing that aren't distress but other things that need fixing. dual logging, stealing, fast relog, use of cars to see enc after death, are they not the real problem?
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Alvarez on January 12, 2013, 09:57:58 pm
Inability to loose is not a valid reason?

And the players win so much in this game, equipment, time, fun... Oh yeah. The game is too fun, but it was stated in this thread already. Sarcastically.

It's already been stated that the problems causing that aren't distress but other things that need fixing. dual logging, stealing, fast relog, use of cars to see enc after death, are they not the real problem?

He's right, why not concentrate on the real problems?

Quote
Alvarez,

You have received a warning due to the fact of deliberately breaching the Internet etiquette of the Fonline 2238 community, posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages to bait or excite users into responding or to test the forum rules and policies, and with that the patience of the forum staff. Their provocative behavior may potentially start flame wars or other disturbances. Please cease these activities and abide by the forum rules otherwise we will take further action.

Regards,
The FOnline 2238 Forum Team.

And what did i say of
Quote
inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages to bait or excite users into responding or to test the forum rules and policies, and with that the patience of the forum staff.
?

Just curious. Can't stand support arguments? Come at me then.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: DeputyDope on January 12, 2013, 10:00:02 pm
i don't see the problem in getting the equipment easier. as long as you can die in 2 seconds without even even reacting for various reasons. so it's unfair to get gear easier, but it's fair to be critbursted and die in 1 second without having the chance to fight back?
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Mike Crosser on January 12, 2013, 10:00:06 pm
The community has spoken,and it said "don't remove distressing for radios"
Everything you say will be shot down with better arguments.
You know why?Because we are right.

Removing this will show how strong is the developer-player connection.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Alvarez on January 12, 2013, 10:04:27 pm
The community has spoken,and it said "don't remove distressing for radios"
Everything you say will be shot down with better arguments.
You know why?Because we are right.

Removing this will show how strong is the developer-player connection.

This, inb4 being banned. Peace out.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: codave on January 12, 2013, 10:10:05 pm
Maybe when it comes to weak encounters (like NCR army which is laughably easy considering it spawns shitloads of best armors ingame). The golden egg argument is used against strong ones (enclave and similiar).

The point is it is safest and fastest way to get valuable loot.

When I farm Unity or NCR Army, I go with other people.

When I farm Enclave or BOS, I go by myself.

To anyone paying attention, this should make it obvious that encounter scaling has absolutely zero to do with farming the more difficult encounters.  I don't fight Enclave/BOS when I farm them, I never have.  Since we can't loot their armor, we don't care if we kill them or not - as long as we can get that weapon from them the mission is accomplished.

Anyone who actually plays this game knows for a fact the easiest way to farm Enclave is with a thief and a bomber, not a PvP or farming alt.  In the context of this thread, and as it applies to Enclave, using a radio to distress with the sole intent of reducing encounter scaling is irrelevant.

This has all been covered, you just don't understand it, because apparently you haven't seen it with your own eyes.  To see it, you have to play the damn game.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Mrockatansky on January 12, 2013, 10:20:00 pm
Who would kill a duck giving gold eggs?

Would you please implement the basic needs for crafters so we have no longer a reason 'exploiting' ducks?
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Mike Crosser on January 12, 2013, 10:21:01 pm
Would please implement the basic needs for crafters so we have no longer a reason 'exploiting' ducks?
You said it!
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Alvarez on January 12, 2013, 10:26:41 pm
Would please implement the basic needs for crafters so we have no longer a reason 'exploiting' ducks?

But isn't that just a part of the solution?
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: T-888 on January 12, 2013, 10:29:41 pm
Just relax.

Even if they remove the distress, you don't need the beacon to manipulate scaling, you can find specific encounters just by having a character in them. Since distress allows more comfort and other utilities, it is pointless to remove it and reasons to discuss it at all, questionable.

It'd be better to adjust encounters so that it's less of a deal of scaling, rather more fixed and distinct for how large groups specific encounters are meant for.

Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Alvarez on January 12, 2013, 10:35:12 pm
Since distress allows more comfort and other utilities, it is pointless to remove it and reasons to discuss it at all, questionable.
It looks like the distress is being abolished just for sake of less of aforementioned comfort.

It'd be better to adjust encounters so that it's less of a deal of scaling, rather more fixed and distinct for how large groups specific encounters are meant for.

So why not reworking the distress instead of abolishing it?
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: T-888 on January 12, 2013, 10:37:21 pm
So why not reworking the distress instead of abolishing it?

Why?

What's the point of it to rework it at all? It's not the problem no matter how you look at it.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Alvarez on January 12, 2013, 10:48:17 pm
Why?

What's the point of it to rework it at all? It's not the problem no matter how you look at it.

For one instance, i'd like to see the objective reasons why the devs wanted to abolish it in first place - so we can dissect the problem and invent solutions for parts of it instead of throwing reprovals around.

As for farming, i could suggest that the human NPC loot the radio and turns it off/the bomb destroys the radio.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Mrockatansky on January 12, 2013, 11:01:00 pm
But isn't that just a part of the solution?

This jibberis about scaling is pure nonsense, nonetheless there are quite effective ways abusing the existing system wich also involes distress sending to ones own alts.
That is clearly exploiting, no need to argue.

One reason its done is either its faster oder more comfortable than using other ways.
again: exploit and worth punishing players, if the 'legal' way would work. I'd happily stand infront of a rockformation every 20 minutes again. I personally actually enjoy crafting. Ye i said it.
But the reason for 'golden duck farming' is the missing of crafting mechanics.

I cant craft the big boomboom guns. I cant craft the combat drugs.
I have no longer a reason to craft bodyarmors. and if i trade for -lets say drugs, i have to run an absurd circle of npc merchants because trading is broken aswell.

And now comes a developer having the goddam nerve posting something about the nub-ingame chat jesesfuckingchrist.

Devs, for the sake of mother mary change the way your team works.
Why is it even possible to give such important tasks of basic game mechanics NOT to the people who are actually coding atm?
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Alvarez on January 12, 2013, 11:15:22 pm
This jibberis about scaling is pure nonsense, nonetheless there are quite effective ways abusing the existing system wich also involes distress sending to ones own alts.
That is clearly exploiting, no need to argue.

Certainly.

One reason its done is either its faster oder more comfortable than using other ways.
again: exploit and worth punishing players, if the 'legal' way would work. I'd happily stand infront of a rockformation every 20 minutes again. I personally actually enjoy crafting. Ye i said it.
At least, you could craft anything back then.


I cant craft the big boomboom guns. I cant craft the combat drugs.
I have no longer a reason to craft bodyarmors. and if i trade for -lets say drugs, i have to run an absurd circle of npc merchants because trading is broken aswell.
There was a reason for economics balance, but not broken merchants. This needs fixing.

And now comes a developer having the goddam nerve posting something about the nub-ingame chat jesesfuckingchrist.
This was most unfitting timing in your case and yes i think it's still a retarded idea to delete distress call or nerf anything facing unsolved problems. It's like breaking someone a leg and throw a heavy stone on his back to carry.
It leaves a very wrong impression.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Crovax on January 12, 2013, 11:44:41 pm
This jibberis about scaling is pure nonsense, nonetheless there are quite effective ways abusing the existing system wich also involes distress sending to ones own alts.

That's not abusing distressing it's dual logging. Also topic has nothing to do with crafting we already know that's incomplete.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Slaver Snipe on January 12, 2013, 11:56:52 pm
For one instance, i'd like to see the objective reasons why the devs wanted to abolish it in first place - so we can dissect the problem and invent solutions for parts of it instead of throwing reprovals around.

As for farming, i could suggest that the human NPC loot the radio and turns it off/the bomb destroys the radio.

I think it fairly obvious what the issue is, making encounters way to fucking easy to get shit in, yes other exploits also have the same problem, but to me it is very obvious it is exploited, if it wasn't an exploit why isn't everyone just following a taxi alt to the area and letting it find the encounter, that's right because the encounter might actually be difficult to win.

The fact of the matter is I have seen maybe 3 suggestions in this 10 page shitfest of pure player whining so maybe when the community gets it together, realizes that this was posted to get views/suggestions from the community (views, not a 50 word rant on why devs are terrible/it's a bad idea with no explanation/omg it's not distress fault it's dual log fault) instead of snuck into a ninja update developers might talk with the community more about altering the games mechanics before introducing something that may be a bad idea from the majority of the community.  When the rest (98.5463%) of this community grow up, maybe FOnline could become a better game.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Mrockatansky on January 13, 2013, 12:07:32 am

Yes mate. This is what i said. Dual alting is the abuse. Distress is just a minor exploit in the process.

Craftable items, no need to be so naughty at all.

>this 10 page shitfest of pure player whining

>When the rest (98.5463%) of this community grow up, maybe FOnline could become a better game.


thats calling teh kettle black.

suggestion from the 98.5463%: don't touch it.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Trokanis on January 13, 2013, 04:17:54 am
Bring back the 10 min log timer (which was actually only 3) then the distress is over and boom fixed. 

Calling the distress call feature an abuse tool is almost like calling venders in any town an abuse tool why? *People use those venders to wait for others so they can pick pocket, troll them, burst them and otherwise abuse the feature*  The punishment of the good because the bad decide to use something in a noobish manner is not the way things should be fixed.  Anything in this game that can be broken or abused no matter what it is, WILL be broken and abused, especially with any remaining players growing more and more bored. 

It honestly scares me how much people focus on features that weren't, or aren't an issue while there are still many many things in game that are really broken and need attention.  To see a Dev scope lock on something so insignificant at the expense of real issues is staggering.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Eternauta on January 13, 2013, 06:38:17 am
So the idea is deleting radio distress because it's a way to get gear too easily, harms TB PvP, etc. However, it has been said that:

-TB PvPers insist in that distressing is a useful tool and that "abusing" it is because of Fast Relog and not because of distressing itself. Delete distress and it would get harder for players who *don't* spend 2/3 of their playing time levelling alts.

-It doesn't offer the easiest way to get loot because there are other ways to do so: stealing and using dynamite. So deleting distress wouldn't stop players who get a lot of gear easily: it will just suck for new players with low level characters who want to be able to kill some NPCs with their friends. And it will be harder to get gear just for those less experienced players, because pr0s will still know how to handle thieves characters and explosives.

-Players do not really need to distress and call for friends to bypass scaling, because anyone can farm on their own with a good EW fastshooter or BG tank. Once again, delete distress and who will get harmed the most? the players who play the game the way it's "supposed" to be played, with hybrid Mad Max Wannabe builds. The guys with the super builds will have no problem getting loot.

I am still waiting Jovanka to answer each and every argument against deleting distress but she just keeps posting "yes TB needs more love, but distress should be scrapped" without explaining why.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Trokanis on January 13, 2013, 08:08:40 am
So the idea is deleting radio distress because it's a way to get gear too easily, harms TB PvP, etc. However, it has been said that:

-TB PvPers insist in that distressing is a useful tool and that "abusing" it is because of Fast Relog and not because of distressing itself. Delete distress and it would get harder for players who *don't* spend 2/3 of their playing time levelling alts.

-It doesn't offer the easiest way to get loot because there are other ways to do so: stealing and using dynamite. So deleting distress wouldn't stop players who get a lot of gear easily: it will just suck for new players with low level characters who want to be able to kill some NPCs with their friends. And it will be harder to get gear just for those less experienced players, because pr0s will still know how to handle thieves characters and explosives.

-Players do not really need to distress and call for friends to bypass scaling, because anyone can farm on their own with a good EW fastshooter or BG tank. Once again, delete distress and who will get harmed the most? the players who play the game the way it's "supposed" to be played, with hybrid Mad Max Wannabe builds. The guys with the super builds will have no problem getting loot.

I am still waiting Jovanka to answer each and every argument against deleting distress but she just keeps posting "yes TB needs more love, but distress should be scrapped" without explaining why.

I'm so happy I think I will cry, someone who actually gets it!  Sorry bout off topic. 

On topic yeah nuff said^^
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Roachor on January 13, 2013, 05:12:52 pm
How do you expect players to fight enclave or bos fairly if they outnumber us, have grossly inflated stats, high tier armour we can't get and high damage weapons? If we just went tb with a group there will always be too many to kill, this isn't balance this is "wasteland must be harsh derp" logic. You make items hard to get, pvp is totally unbalanced, everything takes forever to do and no one wants to play. Even the hardcore group of players that keep this game alive are getting bored and moving on to better things, you keep making things harder to do you might as well shut down the servers now.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: FrankenStone on January 13, 2013, 05:46:05 pm
Devs why havent u impletended PAs now ?

I mean Radios are everywhere in the wasteland , its like they were wood or something or junk lol , but they are high teck . just make them not obtainable ...

end of story  :P
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Besmrtnik on January 14, 2013, 11:09:35 am
I dont agree, distress is awesome tool and should not be nerfed, its very useful in farming/lvluping with friends, if someone gets outnumbered or some players enter his enchounter, its also very good tool for pvp especialy for turnbased combat
I really dont understand your reasons for hateing it so much
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Reconite on January 14, 2013, 11:25:04 am
I think the mindset that people shouldn't be "farming loot" or "grinding encounters" in an MMORPG is ridiculous, especially when you don't have nearly enough PvE content to sustain the game this way.

The fact that you can use distress calling to bypass the bullshit scaling in random encounters is completely balanced because the bullshit scaling in encounters is far too extreme. Why are you trying to discourage PvE with friends by putting people against unwinnable odds.

It becomes retardedly difficult for a squad of every power build to match up against double the amount of Enclave, BoS or even the 75% chance to torso-crit Mercenaries with 10mm pistols, let alone a squad of PvE-playing friends without power builds.

Even with all this aside, it is still an extremely useful tool for getting players back together if they get seperated due to the fact that leaving encounters in TB as a group is broken, and should definitely not be removed even on the mindset that "grinding loot is bad!", because it's so useful in other areas of the game too.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Gimper on January 15, 2013, 12:44:17 am
Let us just ignore broken encounter steal (which shall something be done about in a future)...
What!?! How is this broken? It's just another way for people to get stuff.... next thing we know, "No more critical hits! No more 1-hexing! No more drugs!" You guys are ruining this game!
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Eternauta on January 15, 2013, 01:39:39 am
Let us just ignore broken encounter steal (which shall something be done about in a future)...

Well yeah, ignore encounter steal for a while and delete radio distress instead. It seems that doing that and watching the consequences would be the only way for you to understand that radio distress is not *the* tool to get gear, when you see the pr0s stealing and solo'ing encounters while the nubs can't go kill some Khan group together because they're too weak to defeat them.

It seems an actually good explanation of how scrapping radio distress would have a positive impact on the game can't be given.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: greenthumb on January 15, 2013, 02:08:44 am
removing distress apart of other actual problems would make PVE unplayable, if you wana rly remove distress you need adjust every single encounter, add another feature for broader gameplay, and maybe other "to do" things which would make game crappy in meantime.

Just dont forget that lesser changes are always better if you are stepping into unknown.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Senocular on February 22, 2013, 12:43:28 am
Jovanka has lost a TB fight then came to the forums and started moaning how unfair it is. Meow, meow, meoew... - typical Jovanka's post.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Brujah on February 22, 2013, 12:58:13 am
Jovanka has lost a TB fight then came to the forums and started moaning how unfair it is. Meow, meow, meoew... - typical Jovanka's post.

And you made her remember it by bumping an old thread, good job.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: JovankaB on February 22, 2013, 08:07:03 am
Quote
Jovanka has lost a TB fight then came to the forums and started moaning how unfair it is. Meow, meow, meoew... - typical Jovanka's post.

Even if it was true, which it isn't, it would be irrelevant if I lost some TB fight or not.
You don't make any sense, stop posting crap.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Alec Ramsey on February 22, 2013, 02:46:39 pm
you must not ditch the distress signal, thats an awesome feature.  when i first learned about it, i jumped out of my seat.  ;D


   as far as using it for PVE, that sounds like ambush, not exploit. >:(  shame on you.  people who work together use that function properly.    thats just being smart about battle.

 if youre worried about people farming with alts, fuck it dude. it doesnt matter how quickly people level up, they dont exactly "rely on" distress calls to max level in a day. people will always find a way of making it easier.   

  work on the alting problem, dont give cool features the chop! 
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Trokanis on February 22, 2013, 02:51:11 pm
Uh guys, this feature had been discussed and forgotten until people bumped the thread.  Radios are needed to bring groups back together, they're not going anywhere anytime soon.  It's over and done.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: naossano on February 22, 2013, 11:50:35 pm
I hope some reasonable person would get involved in this thread.

IMO, Radio in the wasteland is like the cellphone irl.
I can't imagine wondering in the wasteland without it.

Radio is needed for too much situations that it would be too long to list them all.

PS: Sorry for the cat who suggested it.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: Johnny Pockets on February 25, 2013, 07:48:52 am
What's wrong with using a radio for hunting?  The people I usually hunt with are 1 CH, so it's not really possible for us to hunt together unless we use radios.

I've also used the distress function for it's namesake more times than I care to count. My friends and I typically agree on a radio frequency every day and keep radios on us in case someone gets stuck somewhere with 10:1 odds against and lots of loot at risk.
Title: Re: Distress call is almost purely abuse tool
Post by: T-888 on February 25, 2013, 11:31:09 am
Even if it was true, which it isn't, it would be irrelevant if I lost some TB fight or not.
You don't make any sense, stop posting crap.

You start to sound like me.