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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: DocAN. on September 28, 2012, 09:43:50 am
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Some changes for sneakers, which will allow to sneak only when You have stealth boy.
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sneakers have been nerfed enough already
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Trolling?
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I'd prefer some craftable sneaker armor as requirement to be able to sneak (or other armors/bluesuit having penalty for sneak skill) rather than stealth-boy. But yeah, I agree sneaking should require some gear to be functional/effective.
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I support this idea. But sneak boy needs to be easier to get. It should spawn in shops and should be lootable from for example ROTMA nightkins. And perhaps craftable with hq mats.
Have it in inventory and you can sneak. Remove the "consumable" sneak boy.
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I'd prefer some craftable sneaker armor as requirement to be able to sneak (or other armors/bluesuit having penalty for sneak skill) rather than stealth-boy. But yeah, I agree sneaking should require some gear to be functional/effective.
cap EN + STR for sneakers ? and 10 ag req for sneak also ?
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Yes and let's make it so you can only shoot a gun while holding guns and bullets in off hand, and you can only run with rubber boots, and you can only barter while wearing spectacles. Any other terrible ideas?
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I have made some ninja sprites, btw, they would be handy for a sneak suit.
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Yes and let's make it so you can only shoot a gun while holding guns and bullets in off hand, and you can only run with rubber boots, and you can only barter while wearing spectacles. Any other terrible ideas?
What makes it so terrible? You can't shoot without a gun with Big guns so why should you be able to get free invisibility with sneak?
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Some changes for sneakers, which will allow to sneak only when You have stealth boy.
Awesome idea. I hope Devs will think about it. No more "invisibility spell" in postapocalyptic game.
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and SB should be rechargeable.
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If i remebre there is an animation for stealh boy, it was in Fallout 1
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What makes it so terrible? You can't shoot without a gun with Big guns so why should you be able to get free invisibility with sneak?
Big guns is a specific skill witch indicates the ability to use, operate, maintain heavy weaponry witch in fact all are items in game. Sneaking on the other hand is self-explanatory, it's not like some suit will give you knowledge of how to perceive the environment more effectively to become more stealthier. It's cannon stuff anyway, any fallout game had the ability to use it by itself, some may say it is some invisibility spell, but since fallout is not so detailed in terms of graphics i guess the player has to "imagine" that the character is using shadows to his advantage, lurking around, stuff like that even if it seems like on an open field to the living, breathing, eating human behind the screen.
The only thing that sneak needs is these parameters.
This is original from SDK.
// __LookChecks |= LOOK_CHECK_SNEAK_DIR; // Nerfe opponent sneak by directions of look
__LookSneakDir0 = 90; // Nerfe 90% of opponent sneak with direct look
__LookSneakDir1 = 60; // Nerfe 60% of opponent sneak with front side look
__LookSneakDir2 = 30; // Nerfe 30% of opponent sneak with back side look
__LookSneakDir3 = 0; // Nerfe 0% of opponent sneak with back look
__LookSneakDir4 = 0; // Nerfe 0% of opponent sneak with back look (Square geometry)
__LookChecks |= LOOK_CHECK_SNEAK_WEIGHT; // Nerfe sneak by current weight
__LookWeight = 10; // Lost 1 sneak point per 10 gramm
This is how it looks currently on 2238.
// __LookChecks |= LOOK_CHECK_SNEAK_DIR;
__LookSneakDir0 = 72;
__LookSneakDir1 = 36;
__LookSneakDir2 = 12;
__LookSneakDir3 = 0;
__LookSneakDir4 = 0;
__LookChecks |= 0;
__LookWeight = 0;
This is how it was on previous session of 2238.
// __LookChecks |= LOOK_CHECK_SNEAK_DIR;
__LookSneakDir0 =135;
__LookSneakDir1 = 95;
__LookSneakDir2 = 55;
__LookSneakDir3 = 15;
__LookSneakDir4 = 15;
__LookChecks |=LOOK_CHECK_SNEAK_WEIGHT;
__LookWeight = 1000;
That is what it should look like and how it was balanced and fair, when sneaking actually was a challenge previous session, some perceptive sniper could spot you from 30 hexes in direct sight and open field - not invisibility spell. I just purely don't see the need to tie sneak for some item, but just purely downgrade it.
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This is how it was on previous session of 2238.
__LookChecks |= LOOK_CHECK_SNEAK_DIR;
__LookSneakDir0 =135;
__LookSneakDir1 = 95;
__LookSneakDir2 = 55;
__LookSneakDir3 = 15;
__LookSneakDir4 = 15;
__LookChecks |=LOOK_CHECK_SNEAK_WEIGHT;
__LookWeight = 1000;
Dear triptroll, our top-coder, it seems you have no idea how these values work :)
You probably also don't have an idea that visibility check is working in a different way on 2238 than it is in SDK.
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That information is and have been for ages in the outdated wiki witch was correct in previous session. I know exactly how it works.
http://fodev.net/forum/index.php/topic,19266.msg160244.html#msg160244
3.1TEST test id= 811000269
Modifying sneak: -72 (front)
Front penalty is applied correctly. Ok
Flat sneak reduction, doesn't matter what it looks like on SDK, it's just a standard, example.
It's not visibility check i'm talking about, not this.
1.TEST Test id=1512659329
observer's maximum fov range decreased to 44 (0% front penalty)
Front penalty is applied and calculated correctly. Ok
1.Observer's maximum sight range is reduced, based on opponent's relative direction: 0%, 20%, 40% and 60% (for front, front-side, back-side and back respectively). For sneakers, the following algorithm decides the visibility:
Came to be a smart-ass when you aren't one and actually don't know shit yourself.
Congratulations, now you made a fool out of yourself.
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Big guns is a specific skill witch indicates the ability to use, operate, maintain heavy weaponry witch in fact all are items in game. Sneaking on the other hand is self-explanatory, it's not like some suit will give you knowledge of how to perceive the environment more effectively to become more stealthier.
Doesn't matter how you describe it. With sneak you can cause harm to other players, with repair or barter you can't. It needs to take items to cause harm so that that your victim gets loot if it goes other way around.
Other way is to make respawning cost money which goes to the killer.
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Dear triple-witch, some time ago Atom told me that on 2238 they have their own check_look function implemented, which is working totally differently than the shit from SDK you are posting about.
Which still means you don't have the fucking idea what you are talking about :P Heck, you don't even know how those SDK switches are working, that's why you write funny values as 135 :)
You just copy some code from SDK and add some pointless explanations, playing smart. How the fuck could it be more ridiculous? :D
I know exactly how it works.
With each post you just prove that you don't, unfortunately :( Sad as it is, dear triplenub :)
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Atom said something, some years ago. Aha. :)
I know how sneak is calculated and how it works, that copy paste material is just a palette (standard, gosh, learn to read) to display information, i never said they should copy paste that or something. Stop bullshitting, you don't know how it works yourself - the function itself, you just know they have something different, witch i doubt since it comes from your big mouth.
Once again, stupidity and ego over the skies at its finest.
Shit, put some more smileys, what a clown. ;D
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Atom said something, some years ago. Aha. :)
It is still working like that, thus the info on wiki (with few values out-dated, sadly :( ). He wrote it himself as far as I know.
Which means that your posts "I KNOW HOW IT WORKS!!!!!" are even more hilarious :D
I know how sneak is calculated and how it works, that copy paste material is just a palette (standard, gosh, learn to read) to display information, i never said they should copy paste that or something. Stop bullshitting, you don't know how it works yourself - the function itself, you just know they have something different, witch i doubt since it comes from your big mouth.
Once again, stupidity and ego over the skies at its finest.
You still don't get it, do you, triplenub?
You put some real values from a different algorithm into SDK code which has nothing common with 2238 sneak, probably for "it to look more serious" ( :D), hoping that no one gets it. This is horribly funny, tripleclown :P
We all know that you don't know the shit about how the game works, but you know how to use "REPLY" forum button, triplejoke :D
Date Registered: April 11, 2011, 09:18:22 pm
However, being quite new in town, you have the full right to not get how the damn game works. Maybe ask your witch or someone. Most importantly, triplekid, you need to stop being so latvian :(
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....
I know values and how the algorithm works and is calculated, Atom posted the algorithm on ...
http://fodev.net/forum/index.php/topic,19266.msg160244.html#msg160244
and i personally went through it multiple times and tested sneak in closed beta test for bugs (with magic debug tool, witch showed everything including order) and everything else, i sure know more about it than you.
Just stop writing like some kid, manchild. :)
that copy paste material is just a palette (standard, gosh, learn to read) to display information
Third synonym just for you - model. Read and comprehend Kilgore, breathe in and out.
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Quote from: T-888 on Today at 07:04:28 pm
that copy paste material is just a palette (standard, gosh, learn to read) to display information
Third synonym just for you - model.
So you admit that you just used SDK code that has nothing common with 2238 sneak to make it smart-looking :D
Well, kid, when you use a completely different model to explain 2238's sneak, then it means you don't have an idea how sneak in SDK is working, kid. Or on 2238. Or both :D
You're just falling deeper and deeper into the depths of ignorance, triplejoke :(
Well, back to the topic:
I think it was suggested to make a penalty to sneak when using bluesuit or a broken armor and I think it would do.
The problem is not about the sneak itself, but no penalty for death, so you get free scouting.
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This is when I read triplekid's posts.. I can't stop laughing, for fuck's sake ;D
Oh kurwa, they have own check look and sneak func but this not means they work different, when you enabling check look call to your script you need to reimplement in native code much hardcoded features anyway.
Hehe as i heard you using func to hide invisible people on client side instead of implementing own check look *))
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...
Oh, pardon me that i don't have access to 2238 source and can't post in the original code.
I was trying to tell you that the third time, witch is successful it seems. Good, i got your attention at last. :)
Oh man, you just crack me up.
I think it was suggested to make a penalty to sneak when using bluesuit or a broken armor and I think it would do.
The problem is not about the sneak itself, but no penalty for death, so you get free scouting.
Death is penalty by itself, player wastes time instead of equipment.
If sneakers were a lot easier to detect, like previous session, there would be no free scouting since in that case it is possible to deny them quite easily, especially for some team who know what they are doing.
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Oh noes fonline2 devteam pvps me on 2238 forum :(
/Kilgore hides client-sided :DDDD
btw skycast weren't you one who said there will be 0 players on 2238 in few weeks? whatcha still doing here? :>
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I remind you guys that it's suggestion board, please continue your discussion in Hinkley.
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Cutting sneak makes it useless for anyone who doesn't max it.
Make level based respawn time?
Since respawn is a magical thing beyond canon or in-world meaning, level scaling respawn isn't as fake as other scalings.
High sneaks have high levels. (Which also makes it more difficult to make lots of them.)
Add RND 1 to 10 + 10 seconds per level above 10 to respawn time.
+50% if die while sneaking.
Also- make Motion Detector in off-hand slot give double detection range; if Motion Detector is in active slot triple detection range plus all tagged on the holder of MD share the bonus.
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Dont make it impossible to sneak without certain item, just apply severe penalties (-50% etc).
What is you'ren't ?
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I'd prefer some craftable sneaker armor as requirement to be able to sneak (or other armors/bluesuit having penalty for sneak skill) rather than stealth-boy. But yeah, I agree sneaking should require some gear to be functional/effective.
Arcanum had something called oiled leather armor (which worked with "prowl") that would probably adapt well to FOnline sneakers.
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I'd love if sneakers could wear armour, you get tore up once you fire the first shot but making it item dependent is stupid. It's not magic invisibility any more than bullets have magic invisibility. Sneakers aren't even much of a threat since plama naders got nerfed.
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Dont make it impossible to sneak without certain item, just apply severe penalties (-50% etc).
What is you'ren't ?
I said it before but somebody delete my post ;D
Just like Sarakin said make sneaker without "stealth boy" half effective
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Might as well just make another remove sneak whine thread since atm sneak sucks pretty hard (you can counter it at lvl 1 just by having high pe) and stealth boys are one of the rarest items in the game.
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stealth boys are one of the rarest items in the game.
you can get them In glow
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you can get them In glow
Hardly. Glow and ares could never supply the need for stealth boys for everyone.
If docan's suggestion took place, stealth boys would need more sources.
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Oh boy glow, which requires other people/lockpicking alts and rad meds. Totally accessible to all but 95% of the server.
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Hardly. Glow and ares could never supply the need for stealth boys for everyone.
If docan's suggestion took place, stealth boys would need more sources.
It could be available from SHI or any other High Stuff faction via dialog/quest.
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I would suggest the following:
1. Make stealthboy work in the same fashion as motion sensor - it works for x seconds when activated and in active slot, then you need to recharge it with MFC or SEC. I would suggest 30 minutes, so you can synch it with drug timer.
2. Make it easier in general to detect sneaks, but instead make stealthboy increase sneak skill above the 300 cap.
For the last point, for instance, 60 bonus sneak from stealthboy corresponds right now to 10 hex visibilty. So you could increase the detection range by 10 hex, and make 300+stealthboy = 360 skill the maximum sneak skill. Then the best sneak is just as good as it is now, but to get there you need stealthboy. Without it, you lose 10 hex detection range.
I think the last suggestion would be good because then in order to have maximum efficiency, even if it's just to scout, you require some investment in terms of in game items. You can still sneak "for free" (without items), but you're then less effective. This would make it more of a reward to kill sneaks, especially if stealthboys are relatively rare.
If the item is not consumable the market will eventually be saturated, even if they only spawn in ares/glow lockers. So even though I think making it craftable could be nice, it shouldn't be strictly necessary in terms of balance - the item is common enough as it is. If you think you need more ways to obtain it, some other easy implementations would be: farmable from ROTMA, buyable through dialogue if you're member of BoS, additional reward for existing quest, spawn in some shops, lootable in random encounter lockers.
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then you should only be able to detect sneakers while holding a motion sensor, since obviously countering a lvl 24 skill with a lvl 1 special is grossly imbalanced.
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What about this:
Sneak effective only at night (in game) hours. No need of stealth boy. This grants regular players, who just want to make quest or trade in locations "safe" hours. In game night hours could be cca from 7PM-7AM (I know, that it is not real, but it is only game).
At in game day hours, you can sneak only using stealth boy, it should stay rare as it is so attacker should think twice before his action.
I like countermeasures, but more than motion sensor (another invisible item that you cant see without text comments), i would prefer flares. 3, 4, 5? hexes around flares could eliminate sneak, so there could be good tactic element (use flare walls to prevent sneakres to backstab..). Flares also gives chance to sneakers to avoid disclosure.
Also FN Fal Night sight should be usefull. It could eliminate sneak, but only for player who holds FN Fal NS in active hand only. Something like sneaker hunter. FN is not ultimate weapon like plasma nades, so sneakers would have still chance and all changes could add good tactic element into fonline skirmishes.
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All sneak really needs is a cost. In last session only sneak able to cause serious trouble was a lsw sneak and that's a semi-expensive weapon.
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All sneak really needs is a cost. In last session only sneak able to cause serious trouble was a lsw sneak and that's a semi-expensive weapon.
and why do you want to nerf sneak so much?
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and why do you want to nerf sneak so much?
Being effective in pvp without a cost is against the general balance in this game.
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Being effective in pvp without a cost is against the general balance in this game.
lol yeah because after that one shot being naked holding a gun is such a huge advantage. Sneakers try to kill me all the time and they usually fail, last one took 3 plasma nades to kill me which is a huge improvement over last session when it took one. Sneaking is a part of combat people need to stop trying to turn this game into minigun tank vs minigun tank crappy rts. It's way more fun
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You should compare sneaker combat ability with PVP builds and "regular non PVP" builds, often not at max lvl because purpose of those non PvP char is not to lvl up them and then play Fonline, but play Fonline and consequently level them up.
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I like the interaction of night time and sneak. I propose 25% penalty to sneak at night w/o stealth boy and 75% penalty to sneak w/o stealth boy during the day.
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Being effective in pvp without a cost is against the general balance in this game.
Tell me how a guy in a pijama with a laser pistol/grenade(and probably low hp) is supposed to be effective in a fight where everybody else is fully geared up?
Did you hit you head?
I propose 25% penalty to sneak at night w/o stealth boy and 75% penalty to sneak w/o stealth boy during the day.
you are an idiot
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Idiot because I want to "ruin" your naked troll build, oh I get it...
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Penalty to sneak at night, are you serious? Good thing that developers love sneakers so this entire "suggestion" thread will be ignored.
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Numbers are of course subject to change, but you get the idea, if you want 100% sneak without penalization, you need to invest into an item (so harsh !), otherwise you get major malus to sneak during the day and minor during the night.
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We are already investing 300% in one skill just to be viable against snipers.
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Sneak previous session was approximately 2 times more visible and required semi-expensive item, it was fine.
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Davrot, i think you are inteligent enough to recognize difference between one-time leveling effort and ongoing effort to gear your build up.
Your 300 sneak is lvl 24. Even snipers and BG needs to reach lvl 24.
Seriously, i think that night hour sneaking only would bring more variety into PvP skirmishes. Sneakers are totaly overpowerd in comparsion with basic chars (traders, roleplayers, universal chars, miners, crafters....) and simultaneously they disrupt basic gameplay mechanics of Fonline.
Ban them (no sneak), tax them (need gear to wear) or reduce their playfield (day/night, flares, night sight weapons,...) are ways.
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Tell me how a guy in a pijama with a laser pistol/grenade(and probably low hp) is supposed to be effective in a fight where everybody else is fully geared up?
Did you hit you head?
you are an idiot
instacrit from 35 hexes, range higher than sniper's sight (from any direction), possibility to KO, resneak and crit again. high chance to cripple. range just as high as any BG, which makes it easy to run. basically you're effective without losing anything. take some mentats irl.
and still sneakers are somewhat more balanced than in the beginning of session.
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Tell me how a guy in a pijama with a laser pistol/grenade(and probably low hp) is supposed to be effective in a fight where everybody else is fully geared up?
Guess it's time to stop using laser pistols and use bg or gatling. Totally doable with sneak.
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I have different varieties of sneakers and they need gear to function properly. If you are so afraid of losing your gear why are you wearing it in the first place? It's okay if a big gunner/sniper kills you but as soon as that dreaded sneaker kills you, you become rectal vexed and whine on the forums as usual.
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Davrot, i think you are inteligent enough to recognize difference between one-time leveling effort and ongoing effort to gear your build up.
Sneakers are totaly overpowerd in comparsion with basic chars (traders, roleplayers, universal chars, miners, crafters....) and simultaneously they disrupt basic gameplay
you cant compare sneakers with miners and crafters that's retarded
instacrit from 35 hexes
range higher than sniper's sight(from any direction)
possibility to KO
high chance to cripple
-instacrit which laser pistol witch deals shit damage
-depends on what build you're using, you dont get 12pe as soon as you tag sneak you know
-you have a possibility to KO on every weapon
-the chance is not high
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you cant compare sneakers with miners and crafters that's retarded
why not? they are regular part of this game, those chars deserve chance to survive. sneak instakill is quite owerpowered.
day/night regulation gives them a chance... stay at safe or risk.
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-instacrit which laser pistol witch deals shit damage
-depends on what build you're using, you dont get 12pe as soon as you tag sneak you know
-you have a possibility to KO on every weapon
-the chance is not high
Instakill with pistol is possible and cripple chance is very high because sd gives +10 to crit tables. So with sd you can get the highest chance to cripple or instakill than a sniper for example.
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why not? they are regular part of this game, those chars deserve chance to survive. sneak instakill is quite owerpowered.
day/night regulation gives them a chance... stay at safe or risk.
Just like you can't divide by 0, hmm ... let's say it's undefined on how you compare those characters witch have different skill sets, for example, the ability to craft a combat armor or shoot someone in the back, effectively barter or have a higher amount of health. Different choices and consequences for both character types, but you can't look at ones disadvantage and look at the others advantage and say it is unbalanced if you don't count in everything and compare it in some approximately precise manner witch is impossible and purely a matter of opinion.
It's easier to compare characters witch have the same goal, to be effective in combat, though even that is not easy and raise very tight discussions where the balance really lies - being invisible or to have a higher range, being effective on the cost of equipment ( like it's some variable, but ... ), it's impossible to define that with precision, those aren't two coins witch you can hold in your hand and weight them, but it sure is much more doable than comparing a barter alt who has completely different purpose to a power build who is meant for combat.
Instakill with pistol is possible and cripple chance is very high because sd gives +10 to crit tables. So with sd you can get the highest chance to cripple or instakill than a sniper for example.
See, like this. He tries to put some weight on the opinion, but presumes the chance high the other one accordingly low, so witch is it? Is it high or low? Comparing to the reliability of a big gunner who does constant damage? Is 50% chance to critically hit in the arm enough? But what if we look at the indirect chance to drop a weapon, it will be some 15 or 20% chance on some x endurance big gunner, but sniper has higher range, what about that?
I could go on like this forever and forever.
I'm still thinking on how to effectively evaluate this, just saying.
We are already investing 300% in one skill just to be viable against snipers.
Yes, this argument automatically makes your right, sneakers have lots of SP in one skill, they deserve to be strong1!1!! It's the milestone of all balance!!!11 Praise the lord, let's revolve the whole balance around sneakers who have 300% sneak.
tard
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I understand you, but my point of view is different than basic comparsion of builds. I think that game and its mechanics should allow majority of builds to "protect" against enemy. And if i use word "protect", i dont mean only ability to survive enemy bursts or repeat them and kill attacker. I mean a whole spectrum of possible choices: prevent, avoid, win or escape. Using town preview, alternative town entrances, "light gear" town check before barter with npcs,... those technics grants better survival chances to non primary PvP builds, except sneakers. When you see him, you are death, even at condition you dont expect them (noon at long range field).
Sneak was part of Fallout, but it was never intended as a ultimate killing machine build, but for avoinding enemy contact. Fonline is not Fallout, mechanics evolved and they are evolving, but they have to be regulated. Elimination is not way, game should be rich in gamestyles. Day/night gives a chance to survive, to protect.
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I understand you, but my point of view is different than basic comparsion of builds. I think that game and its mechanics should allow majority of builds to "protect" against enemy. And if i use word "protect", i dont mean only ability to survive enemy bursts or repeat them and kill attacker.
Don't have much time anymore.
I can say this, it's candy land you are talking about, it will never exist and doesn't in any game, few examples of some other game mechanics doesn't make it a whole concept that would fit and be in par with everything already inside this game, in case you want to provide some.
If everyone could do everyone it would eliminate the need for some roles, witch currently are replaced by alts, but in your "concept" everyone could do pretty much anything and that would spoil a lot of other values this game has and has potential for as a MMORPG survival bla bla bla etc. etc. game.
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Yes, this argument automatically makes your right, sneakers have lots of SP in one skill, they deserve to be strong1!1!! It's the milestone of all balance!!!11 Praise the lord, let's revolve the whole balance around sneakers who have 300% sneak.
tard
I was saying that sneakers are essentially a gimped build, learn to read and spell peasant.
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I was saying that sneakers are essentially a gimped build
300 sneak is big investment but doesn't gimp the character for sure. You trade off hitpoints, resistances or action points for invisibility. It's a good tradeoff but using this ability properly is up to the player.
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I was saying that sneakers are essentially a gimped build.
if you think sneakers are gimped, then you should learn to play with a sneaker.
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if you think sneakers are gimped, then you should learn to play with a sneaker.
8 more special points in int, no secondary skill(fa), 2 perk slots, and you can only get max 180 skill with combat AND no room for lifegiver and you either use no armour or the most expensive which makes you less effective. I use sneak mainly as countersneak because the crits aren't enough to kill anyone properly geared. Other day I got hit by pinkie pie 6 times in a row with throwing knives starting with an sd crit, he got me down to 120 hp. Take bonehead and man of steel and you'll be fine.
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You trade off hitpoints, resistances or action points for invisibility. It's a good tradeoff
So we agree that sneakers are balanced. Good.
if you think sneakers are gimped, then you should learn to play with a sneaker.
This isn't about my proficiency, but nice try.
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Mabye create item which will allow you to see sneakers? In this sneaker don't need item to sneak, but is possible defend himself against them.
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sneakers need to have some item at risk
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So we agree that sneakers are balanced. Good.
It's a good tradeoff special-wise. Gear is another thing.
sneakers need to have some item at risk
This is true. Killing and being rewarded with loot is the point here. Not risking more so that you can kill an opponent who risks less.
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remove armour sneak reduction and people will gear sneakers, but then you'll whine op sneaker apes
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Roachor there was time what armor don't have penalty and 95% of sneakers still was bluesuits faggots :D
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This isn't about my proficiency, but nice try.
no but it was about MY proficiency with a sneaker. the times i got killed 90% of the time was because of other sneakers. because everyone else was playing with them. because it was easy.
and you can only get max 180 skill with combat
+20% skill from one-hander which is more than enough to use a pistol within it's range with 12PE.
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Roachor there was time what armor don't have penalty and 95% of sneakers still was bluesuits faggots :D
what season? I remember sneak having weight malus PLUS armour malus
and who cares about 1 hander? that 20% doesn't add to damage and pistols suck, even plama pistol sd crits do shit damage and you have to be right up close within possible sight range. When my laser sneaker picked up a gatling that made for a nice 1 shot kill but its not like its a viable throwaway weapon.
I wasn't saying capping at 180 was bad because of chance to hit but because of access to perks.
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who cares about 1 hander? GEE I DUNNO MAYBE A PERSON WHO WANTS LESS SPECIAL POINTS INTO INTELLIGENCE? 30-35 hex is NOT within sight range, get it already. with 10IN and skilled you can get 300% sneak and 200% SG skill.
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lol it adds 20% to your chance to hit not your weapon skill. Its a shit trait to have for ew too because lr > lp is a huge way. sg pistols are garbage for killing rats, .223 pistol is crap compared to lp.
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Roachor is completely missing the point here, and incidentally, bringing the whole thread off topic.
The point is that right now, sneakers can be effective and kill geared people (even pvp chars) without risking any gear themselves. This is a fact.
The balance in Fonline should be such that to kill a guy with gear (at least a guy who knows how to use the gear in question), you need to put something on the line yourself. This makes sense and there are good reasons for it, but nevertheless it's still an opinion or a design goal. If you disagree with this opinion, that's fine, but this isn't really the thread to argue about that. We can make a new thread to discuss that if you want.
Now, discussed in this thread is the possibility to force sneaks to use the stealth boy in order to be effective. As long as the stealth boy is relatively expensive, this will be a means to balance the sneaks because then there is a risk associated with sneaking.
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but please remove the consumable thing from stealthboys then it should work like the motion sensonr with MFC or SEC
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but please remove the consumable thing from stealthboys then it should work like the motion sensonr with MFC or SEC
I agree. At the risk of being repetitive, my variation of the OP's suggestion is this:
Make stealthboys rechargable with mfc/sec.
Make motion sensor increase sneak above 300.
Make it easier to detect sneaks in general, roughly like this:
300 sneak + stealthboy -> same detection range as now
300 sneak + no stealthboy -> +10 detection range.
This way if you use the stealthboy, there is no difference from before. You can still go without stealthboy, and you will still be relatively effective (about the same as last season, in fact), but still at a significant disadvantage compared to before.
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What really needs nerfing is the ability to re-sneak when you tag someone, I used it 100 times and still agree that it shouldn't be like that because its OP.
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lol it adds 20% to your chance to hit not your weapon skill. Its a shit trait to have for ew too because lr > lp is a huge way. sg pistols are garbage for killing rats, .223 pistol is crap compared to lp.
Roacher, learn to play.
For a sneaker that uses only pistols it's a good trait, your just too noob to realize that.
Guy plays this game for years, still thinks like a boot.
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Roacher, learn to play.
For a sneaker that uses only pistols it's a good trait, your just too noob to realize that.
::) Obviously if you are going for a pistol build its good, im saying pistol sneak builds are shit. throwing knives are better than .223, lr is better than lp.
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Lazer rifle better for a sneaker than laser pistol?
Hmm, geee, let's see twice the requirements, decreases sneak by -36, can't really make a good critical lazer rifle sneaker, it's going to be some 1 plasma grenade food otherwise.
Don't think like a boot, 223. is fine and throwing knifes is not the ultimate and one option due to 14mm pistol, but then again it's just better to make a EW sneak to use plasma pistol if you are comfortable using 14mm with the low range, witch by the way melts faces just fine.
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My laser sneaker uses lr no problem with 1 str, when i use lp/pp he does shit dmg even with sd+better crits. Throwing knife never needs reloading, has similar dmg to mag lp, everyone uses metal, 10 less range but with 290 sneak it doesn't really matter.
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How it uses lazer rifle? Huh? If your shooting eyes, it has shit range, if your not a critical build it's self explanatory that it's a crap build only for killing some bluesuits. 1 Str + weapon handling + lazer rifle is -60% to EW skill, lol, what are your running 10-15 hexes close to hit someone?
I have a sneaker with 1 str + weapon handling and using lazer rifle on aimed shots is totally crap, pistol surpasses in range due to lower requirements + one hander when it comes to shooting arms/eyes, aimed shots.
Gatling is different story it uses normal shots and has long range witch is a major boost for accuracy for uncalled shots, but it's -72 for sneak, good for killing some static scouts during town control, i know how avv "uses it and says it's doable", even better if you minimax your sneaker with 270 sneak and ghost and gatling, it's going to be 198% sneak on open field and other sneakers will basically smell you from 30 hexes.
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if you're going for a laser rifle sneaker , you will have 85HP. not to mention you can only shoot once, most the times not even being able to crit. i made such build, so i know. shooting eyes is highly complicated. if you don't crit, you're toast, and most likely enemies will be charging for you. if there's a sniper among those enemies, high chance that you'll die.
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http://www.nitue.net/#fcp/direct!id=6601
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That is what i had in mind, one plasma grenade food, most pistol builds will kill you with one shot and even if don't will have enough health to survive an average critical hit from you or to finish off you with the second double shoot, those with 137 HP, not to mention ... the plasma grenade food for plasma sneakers and the sneak disadvantage. Skilled? 10% Chance to critically hit, like purely 10 luck? Pistol build doesn't have to use skilled, +3 perks. Oh kurwa.
I have though about this all, might be fun, but not practical.
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this is why you use sneak to determine things like range and the element of suprise. btw that build had 20% luck. Skilled is the only way to have enough sp, it's an extreme build good for hit and runs but not direct combat. LP just doesn't do enough dmg.
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Magneto lazer pistol does quite a bit damage and plasma pistol SD groin shots, man you don't what you talking about.