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[davrot]

Yes, this argument automatically makes your right, sneakers have lots of SP in one skill, they deserve to be strong1!1!! It's the milestone of all balance!!!11 Praise the lord, let's revolve the whole balance around sneakers who have 300% sneak.

tard

I was saying that sneakers are essentially a gimped build, learn to read and spell peasant.

[avv]

I was saying that sneakers are essentially a gimped build

300 sneak is big investment but doesn't gimp the character for sure. You trade off hitpoints, resistances or action points for invisibility. It's a good tradeoff but using this ability properly is up to the player.

[DeputyDope]

I was saying that sneakers are essentially a gimped build.

if you think sneakers are gimped, then you should learn to play with a sneaker.

[Roachor]

if you think sneakers are gimped, then you should learn to play with a sneaker.

8 more special points in int, no secondary skill(fa), 2 perk slots, and you can only get max 180 skill with combat AND no room for lifegiver and you either use no armour or the most expensive which makes you less effective. I use sneak mainly as countersneak because the crits aren't enough to kill anyone properly geared. Other day I got hit by pinkie pie 6 times in a row with throwing knives starting with an sd crit, he got me down to 120 hp. Take bonehead and man of steel and you'll be fine.

[davrot]

You trade off hitpoints, resistances or action points for invisibility. It's a good tradeoff

So we agree that sneakers are balanced. Good.

if you think sneakers are gimped, then you should learn to play with a sneaker.

This isn't about my proficiency, but nice try.

[Beret]

Mabye create item which will allow you to see sneakers? In this sneaker don't need item to sneak, but is possible defend himself against them.

[DocAN.]

sneakers need to have some item at risk

[avv]

So we agree that sneakers are balanced. Good.

It's a good tradeoff special-wise. Gear is another thing.

sneakers need to have some item at risk

This is true. Killing and being rewarded with loot is the point here. Not risking more so that you can kill an opponent who risks less.

[Roachor]

remove armour sneak reduction and people will gear sneakers, but then you'll whine op sneaker apes

[Perteks]

Roachor there was time what armor don't have penalty and 95% of sneakers still was bluesuits faggots

[DeputyDope]

This isn't about my proficiency, but nice try.

no but it was about MY proficiency with a sneaker. the times i got killed 90% of the time was because of other sneakers. because everyone else was playing with them. because it was easy.

and you can only get max 180 skill with combat

+20% skill from one-hander which is more than enough to use a pistol within it's range with 12PE.

[Roachor]

Roachor there was time what armor don't have penalty and 95% of sneakers still was bluesuits faggots

what season? I remember sneak having weight malus PLUS armour malus

and who cares about 1 hander? that 20% doesn't add to damage and pistols suck, even plama pistol sd crits do shit damage and you have to be right up close within possible sight range. When my laser sneaker picked up a gatling that made for a nice 1 shot kill but its not like its a viable throwaway weapon.

I wasn't saying capping at 180 was bad because of chance to hit but because of access to perks.

[DeputyDope]

who cares about 1 hander? GEE I DUNNO MAYBE A PERSON WHO WANTS LESS SPECIAL POINTS INTO INTELLIGENCE? 30-35 hex is NOT within sight range, get it already. with 10IN and skilled you can get 300% sneak and 200% SG skill.

[Roachor]

lol it adds 20% to your chance to hit not your weapon skill. Its a shit trait to have for ew too because lr > lp is a huge way. sg pistols are garbage for killing rats, .223 pistol is crap compared to lp.

[Lidae]

Roachor is completely missing the point here, and incidentally, bringing the whole thread off topic.

The point is that right now, sneakers can be effective and kill geared people (even pvp chars) without risking any gear themselves. This is a fact.

The balance in Fonline should be such that to kill a guy with gear (at least a guy who knows how to use the gear in question), you need to put something on the line yourself. This makes sense and there are good reasons for it, but nevertheless it's still an opinion or a design goal. If you disagree with this opinion, that's fine, but this isn't really the thread to argue about that. We can make a new thread to discuss that if you want.

Now, discussed in this thread is the possibility to force sneaks to use the stealth boy in order to be effective. As long as the stealth boy is relatively expensive, this will be a means to balance the sneaks because then there is a risk associated with sneaking.