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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: varandas on March 06, 2012, 07:44:49 pm
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Only to give Dev's one ideia how mutch the no relog time is apreciated by players please vote. Lets hope a Dev drop by this topic.
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That is way too simple. You cannot put in the same bag the logistical FR which is good, with the PVP FR which is bad...
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Well there cant be 2 rules.
Is either no fr for all or fr to all.
Even of course this consernes more people that actualy do pvp/tc that are geting bored about waves fight and leaving game.
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You cannot put in the same bag the logistical FR which is good, with the PVP FR which is bad...
Exactly. However, pr0 PvP FR'ers will always have proxy, so...
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Well Eternauta is not the same ting other wise last session we hould have the same problem.
And as i remember last session that dint hapen, not sayng that people dont had wm chars is just they would wait the relog time or if they use proxy
was for mercs or loters but dont ting that many players find proxys good enofe to rt pvp.
PS maybe im rong proxy aint my especialty....................
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Add third option:
-I want 'sleepy' timer JovankaB suggested.
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Fast relog should not be permitted, it totaly screw pvp.
Players should have to make application and register to be able to play on 2238, it would take care of cheaters and unwelcomed players.
Seriously, devs should have full control over there game, not let 10% of the players decide what the rules are.
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Add third option:
-I want 'sleepy' timer JovankaB suggested.
I vote for this !
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Jovankas suggestion is the only reasonable one kinda the only thing we got to hope for now , that would solve problems with fast relog as well somehow support regular , casual players. Those who argue about that , don't have anything solid against it only their opinion and some far-fetched arguments that are hard to comprehend in general.
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I don't understand how you can at the same time support such suggestion and on the other side be member of the main team (maybe the only one) using FR to be stronger in pvp. Could you explain ?
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I can assure you multiple teams are already using fast relog to enhance their success in combat and that is going to become more common if something isn't done , just a habbit witch doesn't require much effort. Why do we use that , if we don't support that ? Quite stupid question actually , of course to succeed and not fall behind , if others will use that and we don't it puts us in a disadvantage , so we use it always to not risk having a disadvantage.
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"Let's play unfair because others could maybe do it too."
*sigh* Have fun playing that way then.
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"Let's play unfair because others could maybe do it too."
How it is unfair ? Ha ha ;D the tricky part is ...
everything we do is completely allowed , how we can have an advantage if others use it too and they already do. Those who don't use fast relog sooner or later will be forced to do it , if they wish to compete. Don't point fingers that were the bad ones that encourage this , witch might be true but at the same time if it wouldn't be us it would be someone else , fingers would be pointed towards someone else , CS maybe even BBS since they have players who support this , it doesn't matter really.
I would rather see the good old fights , when you die you actually " stay dead " for a moment you can count on it when killing someone , it means something more than " oh i killed a guy must wait for his second or third character " , it somehow spoils the fun for me and others alike. If i would like that kind of play , i think i would be playing requiem , but this is not requiem.
Fucking fast relog , it was good how it was.
forgot to mention if this goes 50/50 on the vote and there is not much hope for change , i will not be the one with the disadvantage. I'm still trying to determine if it's worth providing opinion about this , write anything at all.
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Fucking fast relog , it was good how it was.
No, it wasn't. There were already written hundreds of lines why it shouldn't be brought back.
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everything we do is completely allowed
Nice joke, dude.
I'm for no relog time. If defeated team comes again to the battlefield, there is a quick opportunity to beat them again. If they win, that means that your team should practice more (well unless heavily outnumbered lol as anything can be bypassed with numbers). Some kind of challenge is good.
If your team uses fast relog because players in it die to quickly, then you just hurt yourself. Even if you win after entering on 2nd or 3rd character, your "so-called-skill" simply degrades. If you enter the battle knowing that you have no backup chars, you are likely to pay much more attention to survive. The same thing was observed like 2 sessions ago, when fast relog was in frequent use (FOCD times) despite of rules and relog timer. Some players just entered the battle and died easily then switched to another char. It's nothing good for them even if they don't realise it.
If you need fast relogging pvp chars, then it's your choice. But if you want to improve, it's a dumb way to go.
Btw:
maybe even BBS since they have players who support this , it doesn't matter really.
Please. So far I've been using a single pvp char at all times in this session, borrowed from someone else. The other person in BBS supporting fast relog is Nice Boat who has currently also a single pvp char. I don't know what you are trying to prove here.
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Good i can smell rage here :D
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Well if this fr ting keaps going this session will die very soon . Some teams already left and others are in process to. As Manero ask me the other day (why tttla don't play anymore) here you have the answer. We are all against no relog time. We can't support a form of pvp where tactics and skill lose against hours pexing new chars. Have fun........
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I'm for the Jovanka's sleepyness but only if it prevents at least attacking for 2-3 minutes after login.
I'm for no relog time. If defeated team comes again to the battlefield, there is a quick opportunity to beat them again. If they win, that means that your team should practice more (well unless heavily outnumbered lol as anything can be bypassed with numbers). Some kind of challenge is good.
Beat them again? If lost, practice more? Oh comon. Sometimes fights are won only nearly and even small quick reinforcements from other side can turn the tide. The smaller the conflict, the bigger meaning fast reinforcements have.
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Well if this fr ting keaps going this session will die very soon . Some teams already left and others are in process to. As Manero ask me the other day (why tttla don't play anymore) here you have the answer. We are all against no relog time. We can't support a form of pvp where tactics and skill lose against hours pexing new chars. Have fun........
Weren't the only teams that left the ones that didn't manage or didn't care enough to get basic resources like weapons, drugs, ammo, caps etc? And guys, Kilgore is right - don't leave, level up your game instead. It really isn't that hard to make a comeback without fast relog chars waiting over the map if you do things right and the satisfaction of beating a team that basically spams characters losing drugs, armors etc. in the process is nice too.
I'm for the Jovanka's sleepyness but only if it prevents at least attacking for 2-3 minutes after login.
Why the wishful thinking? I mean I've written something like this before, but let me reiterate and tell me whether you do agree on the following points or not:
- people don't die in battle all at once
- having a good logistical base allows you to rearm the char that died in about 60-120 seconds after respawn
- looting and regrouping after a victory takes at least 5 minutes
- entering as a whole beats constantly streamed reinforcements every time unless the other team is camping a building
Because if you do agree, this whole sleepiness/fast relog argument is just pointless as it makes very little difference in terms of time of arrival of another wave whether you have fast relog and alts waiting over the map or not - you just rearm and wait for the others to die and do the same, 2 minutes is not enough and 10 minutes or something that'd make this delay meaningful would just make the game more of a pain in the ass outside of PvP and basically make having proxy alts over the map a popular thing for people who prefer spamming their little lv24 zerglings instead of fighting in the name of Odin with a single character like real men do.
Beat them again? If lost, practice more? Oh comon. Sometimes fights are won only nearly and even small quick reinforcements from other side can turn the tide. The smaller the conflict, the bigger meaning fast reinforcements have.
I don't really agree. In small conflicts individual skill is what matters (Hinkley comes to mind), with 5v5 or less one person can do an all-kill pretty easily if the other team doesn't know what it's doing. In bigger fights making a synchronized entry (and really, would anyone dare to disagree with that?) is more important than constantly keeping some presence on the map, so basically what Kilgore said is true for most situations. Is the remaining 10% of odd setups that result in fast relogs having an edge over "normal" play worth all this fuss? Is it worth introducing the mechanic that weights heavily on everything outside PvP?
Mass relogging is just a really expensive tactic that hurts you more than it helps if you do it every single time, there really is no rational reason for it receiving this much attention and whine, but then again this community has been overreacting over minor things like that for 3 years, so it's just another day in the 2238 forums I guess.
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Are you even playing Nice Boat ? Youre describing 60-120 seconds, FR alt can jump in 5 seconds. Looting doesnt take 5 minutes when everyone can FR to his looter and loot all in under one minute. If everything whats Kilgore is saying is true, why arent BBS dominating ?
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- people don't die in battle all at once
- having a good logistical base allows you to rearm the char that died in about 60-120 seconds after respawn
- looting and regrouping after a victory takes at least 5 minutes
- entering as a whole beats constantly streamed reinforcements every time unless the other team is camping a building
Because if you do agree, this whole sleepiness/fast relog argument is just pointless as it makes very little difference in terms of time of arrival of another wave whether you have fast relog and alts waiting over the map or not - you just rearm and wait for the others to die and do the same, 2 minutes is not enough and 10 minutes or something that'd make this delay meaningful would just make the game more of a pain in the ass outside of PvP and basically make having proxy alts over the map a popular thing for people who prefer spamming their little lv24 zerglings instead of fighting in the name of Odin with a single character like real men do.
I don't get it what you don't get. I've seen what fastrelogs do and they ruin stuff up. You are talking about concentrated spawning after everyone is dead, but with fast relogs people just spawn right after they die and join the action while it's still going on. Maybe if everyone waited that their pallies died fast relog would't be so bad but they don't do that. Once someone dies, he relogs to an alt and is back in the ongoing action in less than 20 seconds. That matters.
I don't really agree. In small conflicts individual skill is what matters (go see Hinkley), with 5v5 or less one person can do an all-kill pretty easily if the other team doesn't know what it's doing.
And when skill-level is close to equal? The one who has more waves wins. If the other side fastrelogs it doesn't mean they are worse players by means of skills. What if some people just had like 3 more lives in hinkley versus your single life and they were equally skilled?
In addition if more skilled players do fast relog against less skilled ones, they will cer-fucking-tainly win, taking away even the small chance of victory from the beginners.
In bigger fights making a synchronized entry (and really, would anyone dare to disagree with that?) is more important than keeping some presence of the map most of the times, so basically what Kilgore said is true for most situations
And with fastrelog making this entry is even easier because the team doing it has their chars on worldmap already. They just put a new ready channel in teamspeak for those who got chars ready for next wave.
Is the remaining 10% of odd setups that result in fast relogs having an edge over "normal" play worth all this fuss? Is it worth introducing the mechanic that weights heavily on everything outside PvP?
Weights down heavily outside pvp? Not being able to fight in 2-3 minutes after login is going to weight down exactly what?
Mass relogging is just a really expensive tactic that hurts you more than it helps if you do it every single time, there really is no rational reason for it receiving this much attention and whine, but then again this community has been overreacting over minor things like that for 3 years, so it's just another day in the 2238 forums I guess.
It's not expensive because it wins fights. You spawn more zergs and weight the enemy down until you got them. Then just claim back the loot.
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Are you even playing Nice Boat ? Youre describing 60-120 seconds, FR alt can jump in 5 seconds. Looting doesnt take 5 minutes when everyone can FR to his looter and loot all in under one minute. If everything whats Kilgore is saying is true, why arent BBS dominating ?
So yeah, disregard the gist of the interlocutor's argument ("no meaningful difference between 60-120 and 5 seconds because by the time the last person dies everyone else is already waiting geared up", in case you didn't get it the first time), make an illogical and obviously untrue statement (looter alts don't require FR and were always used, besides large battles that make reinforcements important were never wrapped up this fast with disabled sneaklooting) and add the good ol' ad hominem which isn't even true because BBS is doing really well at the moment. What a quality post Sarakin.
I don't get it what you don't get. I've seen what fastrelogs do and they ruin stuff up. You are talking about concentrated spawning after everyone is dead, but with fast relogs people just spawn right after they die and join the action while it's still going on. Maybe if everyone waited that their pallies died fast relog would't be so bad but they don't do that. Once someone dies, he relogs to an alt and is back in the ongoing action in less than 20 seconds. That matters.
In case you didn't notice, I'm disputing the point of joining the action while it's still going on unless it's a siege situation.
And when skill-level is close to equal? The one who has more waves wins. If the other side fastrelogs it doesn't mean they are worse players by means of skills. What if some people just had like 3 more lives in hinkley versus your single life and they were equally skilled?
In addition if more skilled players do fast relog against less skilled ones, they will cer-fucking-tainly win, taking away even the small chance of victory from the beginners.
And how the hell are you supposed to put this skill to use when you end up with a giant clusterfuck if you don't take your sweet time to regroup?
And with fastrelog making this entry is even easier because the team doing it has their chars on worldmap already. They just put a new ready channel in teamspeak for those who got chars ready for next wave.
Yeah, it is easier but it's also considerably more expensive and really, is the difference that big in practical terms? On another note, you just contradicted yourself because you either ready the next wave or you keep running in, you can't do both as ultimately players is your most important resource.
Weights down heavily outside pvp? Not being able to fight in 2-3 minutes after login is going to weight down exactly what?
2-3 minutes is going to be a bit irritating if you want to do an in-town spawn (which is already risky and not very popular), besides it's going to slow your farming down (which in macro scale is a giant pain in the ass because farming is already nasty and a must). 10 minutes necessary to make this cooldown really count would be even worse, so yeah.
It's not expensive because it wins fights. You spawn more zergs and weight the enemy down until you got them. Then just claim back the loot.
Drugs and armors get depleted, guns are easy to get. Fighting with a single char and actually protecting your ass instead of doing human wave assaults is still the most cost-effective way to go at it and I'm not even sure we'd be having this discussion if the towns weren't bugged with next to infinite supply of drugs at the beginning anyway.
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Do you realy tink what youa re sayng or you are just posting for more spech nice_boat?
Have you been around lately?
I can show you videos where we defeat 2/3 waves od 15 players and we lost 2/3 per wave and stil got crushed in last wave and all this in less than 5 min so dont come and tell me that fr is not inportant and even whit relog timer this is possibel.
Please be racional this is destroing pvp.
Question to everyone that have seen more than 1 wipe. Have you ever seen one after wipe whit so low player base so quick than this one? I wonder what will be the number of players online in lets say 6/7 months if tings keap going dwon this road.
Just tink about it...............
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Such a project with no leading direction cannot survive indefinately. This "beta" stayed for years. I guess it's just time to go somewhere else. At least that's what I'm gonna do.
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And how the hell are you supposed to put this skill to use when you end up with a giant clusterfuck if you don't take your sweet time to regroup?
You find your pals who fight the enemy and fight the fight the usual "skilled" way. Or if leader sees his men are falling, he can fall back a bit, call the fastreloggers to spawn somewhere and regroup with the survivors for another push.
2-3 minutes is going to be a bit irritating if you want to do an in-town spawn (which is already risky and not very popular), besides it's going to slow your farming down (which in macro scale is a giant pain in the ass because farming is already nasty and a must). 10 minutes necessary to make this cooldown really count would be even worse, so yeah.
Slows down my farming? I gear up my farmer and move it in position during the first 2-3 mins. I farm in cycles of several hours so few minutes in the beginning is nothing.
Drugs and armors get depleted, guns are easy to get. Fighting with a single char and actually protecting your ass instead of doing human wave assaults is still the most cost-effective way to go at it and I'm not even sure we'd be having this discussion if the towns weren't bugged with next to infinite supply of drugs at the beginning anyway.
You might consume drugs and armor multiple times faster with fastrelog but what do we do when we don't pvp? We farm. I'd say we farm 90% of our gaming time anyway, at least now. So everyone who can farm can afford fast relog waves. And if you're out of gear, don't pvp but go farming then come back when you can afford fast relog waves. Who suffers? those who don't have time to farm as much others can. They suffer at least double compared to before.
And lastly, fast reloggers don't have to do human wave attacks. They might do it because it works now, but if someone magically manages to counter that strategy it doesn't mean that fast reloggers lose. They are still as good players as they are without it but with it they have instant respawning and regearing at their disposal. It should be pretty obvious advantage over normal respawning and normal regearing. We always need to come back faster when we die.
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2-3 minutes is going to be a bit irritating if you want to do an in-town spawn (which is already risky and not very popular), besides it's going to slow your farming down (which in macro scale is a giant pain in the ass because farming is already nasty and a must). 10 minutes necessary to make this cooldown really count would be even worse, so yeah.
Just 2-3 minutes is better than 0 minutes. Just 2 minutes is enough to make fast-relog annoying and less useful. On the other hand, 2 minutes is usually shorter than the time a normal player needs to remember what he was planning to do today, check his items, get ready, move on map where he wants, etc.
No real player character ever logs out in-town. Only alts for quick shop access with zero items to lose.
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You find your pals who fight the enemy and fight the fight the usual "skilled" way. Or if leader sees his men are falling, he can fall back a bit, call the fastreloggers to spawn somewhere and regroup with the survivors for another push.
See, maybe that's the problem here - you're still fighting in a linear manner? Maybe it's time to adapt?
Slows down my farming? I gear up my farmer and move it in position during the first 2-3 mins. I farm in cycles of several hours so few minutes in the beginning is nothing.
And I jump into my farmer, do a quick run and then go do something productive. Oh, and I char-skip a lot outside combat. I'm not the only person playing like that. Why do you want to waste our time by introducing a bad solution to a problem not everyone even considers a problem in the first place?
You might consume drugs and armor multiple times faster with fastrelog but what do we do when we don't pvp? We farm. I'd say we farm 90% of our gaming time anyway, at least now. So everyone who can farm can afford fast relog waves. And if you're out of gear, don't pvp but go farming then come back when you can afford fast relog waves. Who suffers? those who don't have time to farm as much others can. They suffer at least double compared to before.
You have to farm n times more with n being the number of chars you use. This is not something to be taken lightly and actually it's an effin' huge upkeep. The thing is the field isn't really level because depleting the resources is not an issue due to the bug I mentioned before - some factions are just so stocked the don't have to give a damn. It's more of an issue with TC rewards and influence than it is with relogs. Make taking the town less of a chore and balance the rewards and this problem would go away on its own with time, especially since moving all those alts over WM is really a pain in the ass so factions doing this lame bs would be more or less restricted to their "hometown" everyone would avoid anyway. Actually, it's always been like that but now that TC is so effin' static this natural obstacle has been removed.
And lastly, fast reloggers don't have to do human wave attacks. They might do it because it works now, but if someone magically manages to counter that strategy it doesn't mean that fast reloggers lose. They are still as good players as they are without it but with it they have instant respawning and regearing at their disposal. It should be pretty obvious advantage over normal respawning and normal regearing. We always need to come back faster when we die.
Oh, but they have to - otherwise they lose their edge and we're back to "it doesn't even matter because regearing a single char is fast anyway".
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See, maybe that's the problem here - you're still fighting in a linear manner? Maybe it's time to adapt?
No idea what's that supposed to mean. If you manage to defeat for example SoT fastrelog waves with some strategy that doesn't involve cheating regularly and in constant rate I'm ready to admit that fr is not a problem. If this strategy is 60 player swarm, I'm not impressed.
And I jump into my farmer, do a quick run and then go do something productive. Oh, and I char-skip a lot outside combat. I'm not the only person playing like that. Why do you want to waste our time by introducing a bad solution to a problem not everyone even considers a problem in the first place?
You can char skip in another window. Yes I'm telling you to dual log.
You have to farm n times more with n being the number of chars you use. This is not something to be taken lightly and actually it's an effin' huge upkeep. The thing is the field isn't really level because depleting the resources is not an issue due to the bug I mentioned before - some factions are just so stocked the don't have to give a damn. It's more of an issue with TC rewards and influence than it is with relogs. Make taking the town less of a chore and balance the rewards and this problem would go away on its own with time, especially since moving all those alts over WM is really a pain in the ass so factions doing this lame bs would be more or less restricted to their "hometown" everyone would avoid anyway. Actually, it's always been like that but now that TC is so effin' static this natural obstacle has been removed.
FR is not only problem in tc but pvp anywhere. In gecko mine, new reno, mariposa anywhere where you can just jump in from worldmap at unlimited rate.
Oh, but they have to - otherwise they lose their edge and we're back to "it doesn't even matter because regearing a single char is fast anyway".
Normal respawn + regear is 1min 30sec min. Fast relog is 20 seconds. If you can choose, do you take rather 1,5mins or 20 seconds at the cost of some drugs if your whole team's victory is at stake? Some will do it from the delight of pwning some random guy who killed his previous char.
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No idea what's that supposed to mean. If you manage to defeat for example SoT fastrelog waves with some strategy that doesn't involve cheating regularly and in constant rate I'm ready to admit that fr is not a problem.
Perhaps we could arrange a little test - fast relogging SOT vs non-linear tactics of BBS ;)
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I don't really care about that waves of alts, it's quite annoying but if i can do the same than everything works fine.
Like someone said...
"Adapt or lose." I don't see "cry" option ;)
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No idea what's that supposed to mean. If you manage to defeat for example SoT fastrelog waves with some strategy that doesn't involve cheating regularly and in constant rate I'm ready to admit that fr is not a problem. If this strategy is 60 player swarm, I'm not impressed.
Well, it's supposed to mean what it sounds like. Don't stand there like an ass exchanging fire or rushing like a madman, it doesn't really work. As for the latter part - well, okay I guess? I've fought them a few times and I haven't started bitching yet.
You can char skip in another window. Yes I'm telling you to dual log.
That's uncomfortable.
FR is not only problem in tc but pvp anywhere. In gecko mine, new reno, mariposa anywhere where you can just jump in from worldmap at unlimited rate.
Who the hell would gather all those alts over a friggin' mine? That's borderline irl retardation.
Normal respawn + regear is 1min 30sec min. Fast relog is 20 seconds. If you can choose, do you take rather 1,5mins or 20 seconds at the cost of some drugs if your whole team's victory is at stake? Some will do it from the delight of pwning some random guy who killed his previous char.
Why would the team's victory be at stake because of a single minute? A minute is not even enough to properly reform for most gangs.
Perhaps we could arrange a little test - fast relogging SOT vs non-linear tactics of BBS ;)
Most preferably on a custom map that doesn't have anything to do with the actual combat zones, let's also introduce arbitrary limits on the number of participants, make sure everyone is entering with a tourney mindset and eliminate any possibility of surprising someone at all. That'd sure as hell prove a lot.
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Perhaps we could arrange a little test - fast relogging SOT vs non-linear tactics of BBS ;)
No nead we have vidoes that show skilled players (tink i can call us that) fighting whit a concret stratagy waves in equal number of skill players.
Well in all does videos what hapen is we are lets say 15 and then:
1° wave- 15 atacking players get kiled we lose 3/4 20 sec after
2° wave- 15 atacking players get kiled we lose more 5/6 players 20 sec after
3° wave - 15 atacking players kill the remaining 5/6 of us whit out the dead even have time to return from spawn
This is what hapen in a fight betwenn a gang that fast relog and other ho dont, fr was abel to come back in less then 1 min 3 times nothing you can do
Well some of you will say but why dont you fast relog as well? To does people i will answer, no point fights just go dwon to numbers not skill, fun is divided by 10 and its a endless fight.
If someone can prove me rong please go a head..........
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No nead we have vidoes that show skilled players (tink i can call us that) fighting whit a concret stratagy waves in equal number of skill players.
Well in all does videos what hapen is we are lets say 15 and then:
1° wave- 15 atacking players get kiled we lose 3/4 20 sec after
2° wave- 15 atacking players get kiled we lose more 5/6 players 20 sec after
3° wave - 15 atacking players kill the remaining 5/6 of us whit out the dead even have time to return from spawn
This is what hapen in a fight betwenn a gang that fast relog and other ho dont, fr was abel to come back in less then 1 min 3 times nothing you can do
Well some of you will but why dont you fast relog as well? To does people i will answer, no point fights just go dwon to numbers not skill, fun is divided by 10 and its a endless fight.
If someone can prove me rong please go a head..........
If you knew they'd be back why didn't you regear and reenter? Of course you lose if you fight it on their terms...
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If you knew they'd be back why didn't you regear and reenter?
Ok then smart guy lets go to bh i will kill you and i want you back in the same pvp char ( 28 od) full gear drogs taken in less than 1 min.
Tink you can do it?????????
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Pointless to post here when most of "against" voters just stick to arguments "BBS this BBS that". Nobody said here that BBS is perfect, great, good and/or lame and it completely doesn't matter which one is true. I'm stating my opinion as an individual person not whole gang. Same about Nice Boat or Manero. Last time I've seen one of FR's biggest enemies in game (that is posting here and threatening to use x copies of his pvp alt) he spawned with his second pvp char (the first one was already dead) in the middle of our group and lived for approximately 1.53s. No further comment from me.
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Ok then smart guy lets go to bh i will kill you and i want you back in the same pvp char ( 28 od) full gear drogs taken in less than 1 min.
Tink you can do it?????????
A tent/base on respawn, a car, a gear set, a stimpack kit and I don't really see a problem here.
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A tent/base on respawn, a car, a gear set, a stimpack kit and I don't really see a problem here.
Lol i saw that coming so it means in a 15 people team that will fight lets say SOT (nothing against them they are exceptional adversaries that are just using all at their disposition to win) that will send you min 3 waves, it means (by the rules whit no dual logg or proxy leader to move you and your team mates around) you nead min 60 cars lol yep thats realy comon ting.
You beat my logic..................
ROFLMAO
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I love Fast Relog. This is one of the best changes i see this season. I for one will be bummed out if it goes away.
I'm against the Sleepy idea and/or Passing Out at logoff.
I'd like someone to tell me in clear terms why FR is causing problems in TC. I don't see how wave after wave of incoming enemy fighters would not be fun. It seem to me, if you want to do TC now, you have to combat multiple waves of PvP battles. Isn't that a fun thing for PvP fighters? More PvP fights should be better, right? And if the enemy has the exact same challenge when you attack them, then where is the problem?
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Not everybody has time or finds fun to build X chars, dude. As simple as that. It's an endless and time consuming race.
It's already long enough to get stuff ready for battle, to have to prepare chars too is just crazy.
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I'd like someone to tell me in clear terms why FR is causing problems in TC.
Yea, yea.... if you are used to make new alts all the time then it's great I suppose...
Not so great if you like to play with 1-2 characters or simply don't have time to create army of alts.
It gets worse if you aren't in organized gang and can't share PvP alts.
I don't understand how some people consider FR in PvP improved gameplay.
Grinding XP to create army of alts and hauling the army over worldmap isn't skill.
It excludes casual players from PvP. And then people wonder where are "small gangs"...
You shouldn't need more than 1 PvP character to participate in combat with equal chance to win against other player.
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It excludes casual players from PvP. And then people wonder where are "small gangs"...
You shouldn't need more than 1 PvP character to participate in combat with equal chance to win against other player.
what pvp? pvp is dead thanks to great tc idea. And yea why we have to make pvp alts, lest all use only 1char ;]
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Yea, yea.... if you are used to make new alts all the time then it's great I suppose...
Not so great if you like to play with 1-2 characters or simply don't have time to create army of alts.
It gets worse if you aren't in organized gang and can't share PvP alts.
I don't understand how some people consider FR in PvP improved gameplay.
Grinding XP to create army of alts and hauling the army over worldmap isn't skill.
It excludes casual players from PvP. And then people wonder where are "small gangs"...
You shouldn't need more than 1 PvP character to participate in combat with equal chance to win against other player.
+1000000000000000
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Then i suggest "TC Locking"
Once a team officially starts TC in a TC town, all players who show up there during TC can only target THAT team's characters. So try to come back after death but while TC is still going on, and you won't be able to target enemy players - only your own team.
Enemy team shows up and has to "Join TC" which adds them to the opposing team only, and they have only so much time to add more people. Then the system gets locked and a *somewhat* fair fight might happen. Innocent visitors showing up to do a quest or get a perk (possibly oblivious about TC in progress), choose to not "Join TC", can run their errands but cannot target anyone in either team.
When TC is done, there is a 30 minute time delay before another TC can be started.
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And if the atacking team is using fr????????????
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Yeah, and let's reintroduce something more or less like parley because it was such a great idea >_> God, if the discussion is going this way I might become a convert and start supporting Jovanka's cooldown as a lesser evil ::)
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Marko, so it would be no fast relog, but only for one team? Brilliant -,-
And besides, PvP is not only TC.
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(Idea edited)
"Waves of attackers" is only a TC issue. FR to cause problems in a mine is just tough. As a miner, I can FR to my fighter to fight back. FR is a good thing.
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that is the point of a gang structure game you dont nead fr you nead a gang that suport and help each other.
When i go mine in crowd hours i always have a group of lawyers whit me TEAM WORK no fr nead.
It was so fine last session................
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(Idea edited)
"Waves of attackers" is only a TC issue. FR to cause problems in a mine is just tough. As a miner, I can FR to my fighter to fight back. FR is a good thing.
So if someone wins a fight with you in a mine 10 seconds later you will be waiting for him outside with burster
because you have plenty of time to level up alts. How is that a good thing? I mean, for the game not for you personally.
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Someone will beat me in the mine anyway. With FR, i can show up maybe fast enough to deal some justice.
Why do you Anti-FR people keep mentioning multiple alts? I am in favor of FR and i only use 1 fighter so far. 1 crafter + 1 fighter + FR = a solo player has a chance.
And remember: every player here is a solo player when his team is offline.
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So if someone wins a fight with you in a mine 10 seconds later you will be waiting for him outside with burster because you have plenty of alts.
How is that a good thing?
how is it a good thing that the pk goes and kills a poor bluesuit miner for nothing?
fr gives that miner a chance to say fuck you pk you wana pk then come fight a alt that can fight back.
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Nobody forces you to go to the mine with "poor bluesuit". There is a reason HQ mines are in unguarded places...
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Nobody forces you to go to the mine with a bluesuit alt.
really then why is ore of heavy?
when you go to mine you want to get as much as you can and when you mine you take your craft with high cw which has no fighting skill so what am i going to go in ca with a sniper with 100hp and no combat skills? really again another gm that does not play game and just looks at it at point of veiw of gm that can get everything with ease. stop healing people in ncr and craft and pvp then your ideas will change.
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Well the wasteland is supose to be harsh. Last season there was no fr and people still mine. I wonder how thos heroes manage to...................
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Why do you Anti-FR people keep mentioning multiple alts? I am in favor of FR and i only use 1 fighter so far. 1 crafter + 1 fighter + FR and a solo player has a chance.
OMG, this guy is so retarded, as his TC locking bullshit, can someone just delete his posts ? Please, we'd really need a decent conversation without goddamn noobs inside.
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Well the wasteland is supose to be harsh. Last season there was no fr and people still mine. I wonder how thos heroes manage to...................
dont compare this era's mineing to the last. you know things are 100 percent differnt from then. now solo crafter miners cant mine in redding mine. they need to send in there fighter to kill aliens then send in miner. last era they also had people defend them in mines now no such thing because well tc is screwed. yes am against fr in tc pvp but its good for many other things.
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That's false falloutdude. I'm solo crafter miner and I go there alone. Stop speaking about what you don't understand and leave the thread, thx.
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Shanga, instead of using this important thread as a way to express your reckless hatred, how 'bout joining me in a Mumble chat? In fact, anyone who wants to chat now about this, you're invited. Jovanka, it would be great to have you in this voice conversation:
generic13.mumble.com
port: 8455
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Certainly not, I don't have time to explain you the whole game since your posts show how little you know about it. Stop thinking that everyone will play as fair as you. People don't play fair, and since they don't, FR is shitty. Even if its useful for many things that I'm using also, as all the others. But I would rather not have the possibility to use such little abuse to avoid facing much greater abuses.
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chicken bok bok. I think you're just a PK who hates the idea that your victims have a way to fight back this year.
Update: The wasteland is not harsh. The people in it are harsh.
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Nothing to do with me, I'm not even PK or whatever name you'd call me. Just stay out of the conversation instead of saying tons of mistakes and common speeches like :
The wasteland is not harsh. The people in it are harsh.
coz' that's really ridiculous, ya know ?
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Calm dwon guys no nead to get to hard words, the reason of this topic is to know where everyone stands about fr and give is point of view.
Does ho suport fr please take a lock at player base of last after wipe, end of last session and now after only 2 and half months of this wipe and if you realy like this game and want to see him preval dont tell me that someting aint rong.
PS. Marko shangalar is no PK is in the justice side.
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varandas, the largest drop in the number of players happened when crafting became the primary way of getting items instead of farming. The fact that many terrible ideas like parley and predetermined timewindows were introduced to TC certainly didn't help too. Many sessions have passed, with crafting getting harder and farming getting less profitable/more demanding in terms of effort every time a wipe happened... not everyone has the patience and teammates required to go along with all this crap, you know? With this session's atrocious economy it really is no wonder people are still quitting... heck, even if they weren't, the game would be next to unplayable with more players due to "this sorry-ass pile of rocks has been depleted". Blaming it on fast relogs which are actually pretty convenient for absolutely everyone outside of combat is just taking it too far. Heck, I'd risk saying that if the devs removed all the "exploits" like 5mm steal-farming etc. the server would be pretty much empty by now. Out of every 10 people who have dropped this game, probably 9 would complain about grinding and 1 would mention the impossibility of roleplaying with the way this server is set up. Last, but not least - keep in mind that the number of players has been steadily decreasing since late 2009 while the introduction of FR is a fairly new thing, so it's probably a bit too early to be jumping to conclusions, don't you think?
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Well to end my part of this discucion what i can say to you/devs and our loved enemys is that if tings stay this way you aint seing TTTLA in game any time soon. Not that the server depends on us as we are only one of the teams but if i recall last session when every one left the server we and our allies where the only ones given some fun to de remain pvp players in the server............
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If you fast relog and shoot another player in the first 3 minutes your character should turn pink or something like that to mark his shame for fast relog in PvP, that way everyone can still do it but your respect will go down ;D and in videos or screenshots it will show how many people just keep fast relogging. Heh, even write a number on the character to show is this your 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc dual log :)
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If you fast relog and shoot another player in the first 3 minutes your character should turn pink or something like that to mark his shame for fast relog in PvP, that way everyone can still do it but your respect will go down ;D and in videos or screenshots it will show how many people just keep fast relogging.
this made me lol. half os server would be pink all the time. :P
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varandas, the largest drop in the number of players happened when crafting became the primary way of getting items instead of farming.
Heck, I'd risk saying that if the devs removed all the "exploits" like 5mm steal-farming etc. the server would be pretty much empty by now.
Yes, yes, yes... totally agree with Nice_Boat. Crafting is ok for people, who have one character and 100x 5mm ammo is wow for them. Sadly, for pvp apes with a great ammo consumption (one ave-burst is 40 ammo, player carries 400-600 ammo to every battle) this current crafting system is unacceptable. They would have to spend an insane ammount of time doing something very boring. Is this game supposed to be boring? I craft M60 only. It's quite easy to craft but I craft it mainly because there are no NCR Armies (in that case I'd farm it, of course).
With all respect to all the topic contributors, most of the nicks or players here I barely see on the battleground. However, people like me or Nice_Boat, we play almost every day and I have to say that I still don't see any dramatic impact on gameplay caused by fast-relogs.
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Crafting is ok for people, who have one character and 100x 5mm ammo is wow for them. Sadly, for pvp apes with a great ammo consumption (one ave-burst is 40 ammo, player carries 400-600 ammo to every battle) this current crafting system is unacceptable. They would have to spend an insane ammount of time doing something very boring.
Not only apes use boomsticks, mister. If I want to have fun pew-pewing pixels with LSW/M60, I have to prepare bazillion of bullets first. Of course time required for this is much longer than pew-pewing itself. Hell, even 14mm Pistol eats 100+ of ammo on each one-hour PvE tour. 5mm AP requires only one HQ mineral for 100 pieces, .223 and 7.62 both require 5 HQ minerals, so using Avenger is, well, "cheaper".
If I hate crafting (which I don't), I will ragequit quite fast, I suppose.
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Have faith.
It sounds too much like we are talking about God here.
"But he never does anything! My life is complete shit, so boring, nothing but ass holes around every corner! If there was really a god he wouldn't let rapists and killers loose on us, and he would cure all disease. HE KEEPS RUINING MY LIFE!!!! " Etc etc.....
Devs = Human
Constant discussions mostly complaining about the same damn things over and over again isn't going to motivate them much.
- I know i say I quit till fixed but they know what needs fixing so my beta-ing isn't necessary right now. I come back when things have been re-updated and there are new 'discoveries' to be made.
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Nice_Boats post's make me dream...
What if devs set up a second server parallel to the current one on the same machine but another port, which would contain the data from the first sessions?
In one of the previous sessions devs restored the old data for one day, so I believe they still keep the backup somewhere.
I wonder which of the servers would be more popular.
Additionaly it would be a good opportunity to test the new server machine :)
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I have determined so far the most effective solution, witch could very likely be supported by the majority of the community.
Outside the combat , no change at all. Each time you engage in combat , a cooldown on relog is initiated let's say for those 3 minutes , as well cooldown refreshes each time when combat is initiated. To make it more comfortable , that cooldown could show up in the right corner of screen as any other timeout.
PvP would be the same as it was in last season , at the same time allowing everything else what fast relog provides outside of combat.
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I see that you've got a good source of fast proxy servers, T-888 :)