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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: Solar on February 09, 2012, 09:01:46 pm
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Well, in the hopes of nailing down a solid concept of TC, I thought I'd try this. Do not troll in here thanks.
This needs to have all the details ironed out ahead of time, because (unsurprisingly) people are starting to get sick of remaking this ;)
Anyway, to quote myself from my concept thread:
OK, TC.
First things first, there should be some way to display the current influence of the top 3 gangs competing for the town.
The equipment checks can be eased quite a bit too, especially for armours. LA I and II should be fine to use.
Scenarios.
Instead of having Influence just ticking up for standing around in the town, this should be some randomly assigned task. Each one should have a time window they have to defend and success means the town is locked for other tasks for some time. Ball park figures of task takes 15 mins, lock out is 30 mins or 20 mins/40mins.
- Defend the town for X minutes. This is essentially just standing around in the town (!) but it gives a server message, so gangs know they have to come and stop them. This should discount all buildings
- Defend building X. This is basically the inverse of the above, you must keep X number of players alive and inside the building
- Repair Generator. You must bring whatever materials and use them to repair something - obvious example is the reactor in gecko. There could be multiple terminals to use, when you repair them you give a server message saying
*1/5 terminals being repaired in Gecko in X minutes*
*2/5 terminals being repaired in Gecko in X minutes*
The X minutes would depend on the char used to start the repair.
- Stock local brahmin supplies/slave supplies - obviously Modoc/Den. Bring X number of cows, keep Y number of cows alive for 15 / 20 minutes.
- Repell Raider attack. Raiders will be spawned and attack citizens over the next 15/20 minutes. If you can stop more than X citizens dying you complete your mission.
- Defend Caravan while it unloads (natural finish point for any real caravans we have in the future)
- Others?
Influence Effect
If you complete these successfully you get the loot (which doesnt depend on influence) and you get influence points.
Those gangs who achieve over X influence points in a city can then compete to "control" the town every 26 hours. The winner gets bonus loot (which heavily depends on their amount of influence.
They are also allowed to set the rules the town lives by. Most obvious thing is the rules for the Militia, but anything else you can think of too.
Militia.
These need to be limited to something like a max of 10 at one time. Don't think they need to cost anything either. Mercs should not be added to militia. They should disappear if a scenario is started, or their time lapses (max 30 mins each time).
Controlling gang can deploy Militia at any time there is not a scenario on going. They don't act like the controlling gangs mercs, they act like guards, enforcing the towns rules. They will attack even controlling gang memebers.
Anyone who fires should then not be protected by the guards, so gangs can defend themselves by returning fire.
Every 3 minutes the militia are out defending the town should give the controlling faction 1 influence. Up to a maximum of 10.
An enemy gang killing militia should gain 1 influence for every Miliitaman they kill.
Opinions? :)
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About militia.
I think its should be pay like mercenaries.
Reduced number to max 10 is cool but remember to dont give them shitload hp.
About influence i don't have any great idea lets somebody other talk about it
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I prefer more militian, but spread all over the town, not focused on town center.
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About militia.
I think its should be pay like mercenaries.
Reduced number to max 10 is cool but remember to dont give them shitload hp.
maybe you should look up what millita is before suggesting to pay them... millita dont fight for pay they fight for there country , land what ever it is. if they get anything from it (ie train,money,items) its because thats there spoils from the people they killed.
anyway 10 millita is bad idea because a faction can allready killed 20 milita with ease even when they have high hp.
about influence, solar i really think this whole thing should be removed. it just makes people who want to tc waste there time afking in town for hours. please just remove this and lets get back to old tc with longer timer.
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Ofc only bigger gangs can kill 20 militia when gather 30 people in one rush but 20 vs 20 militia will win for sure ;) and only vs militia not milita+players
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anyway 10 millita is bad idea because a faction can allready killed 20 milita with ease even when they have high hp.
Militia would be used to guard the town, a gang should be able to clear them out easily, but they should be able to stop random PKing.
about influence, solar i really think this whole thing should be removed. it just makes people who want to tc waste there time afking in town for hours. please just remove this and lets get back to old tc with longer timer.
If everyone could read the post, before commenting, that would be best.
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Here's my three cents:
-Sneak disabled or action points penalty right after turning it off(after all "sneakers" are supposed to fulfill the role of scouts, not pose a great threat to separated players) - This will allow for more strategic character placement without the worry of losing forces due to not camping a narrow zone/building.
-Militia should be divided into two types:
*a small group, 5 men or less dedicated to defense of gang members from any threats such gun shots, stealing, drugging etc. in a manner similiar to the current militia. These guys would be purchased for caps with the option to arm them with a weapon of player's choice, single fire weapons only to prevent griefing.
*a bigger group, proper militia. Up to twenty guards to be deployed at any given time enforcing the rules of any major cities, trained in a fashion similiar to Jagged Alliance 2. Characters spending time in the city would generate militia over time, naturally the more characters, the quicker the militia would grow in number. Speech should also influence militia growth in some way, perhaps boosting every member's militia training multiplayer by some value. These militia would be exceptionally strong and should dissapear if some objectives are met and/or durimg certain time windows over the course of the whole day so the attacking factions have a way to avoid fighting several armed NPCs.
-Influence should not determine which faction has control of the town, instead, the old town takeover system would be used. However, once a faction reaches a certain amount of influence the city becomes harder to weaken, perhaps ridding the town of quests that remove militia.
-Absolutely no mercenaries entering from the world map. Should a character attempt to enter a contested area with mercenaries, he/she will receive a message that he/she is not welcome here. Characters with mercenaries already inside a zone prior to it being regarded as contested, however, should not be penalized in any way; attacking factions will be put in an advantage here, meaning more fights.
I'll add more once I remember some ideas.
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- Stock local brahmin supplies/slave supplies - obviously Modoc/Den. Bring X number of cows, keep Y number of cows alive for 15 / 20 minutes.
this should be some randomly assigned task
Let me guess this will provide more influence than just standing in town or defending building x right ? If so then that's just ridiculous , you again force players to do things they completely do not want to do.
Randomly assigned task , * 15 guys with the most high tech equipment ready to kick some ass and doesn't want to do anything else will go shovel shit * sorry solar i just couldn't resist. But get the point then at least make shoveling shit or guarding brahmins a little bit rewarding , but players can always choose to stand in towns or defend x building. That's what PvP organized factions will want to do , not guard brahmins :/
Anyone who fires should then not be protected by the guards, so gangs can defend themselves by returning fire.
This makes militia impossible to use as a defense in team fights as all your team won't be shot at once , so if a faction gets attacked only those who get shot can defend , unpractical in real situations. That won't work.
Those gangs who achieve over X influence points in a city can then compete to "control" the town every 26 hours. The winner gets bonus loot (which heavily depends on their amount of influence.
Over x influence , once per 26 hours , " compete " for town control. What ? I can't imagine how is that gonna work at all as work in practice ? If it is like you can try to seize the control of town only once per 26 hours , then that's shit , rapid exchange of cities between factions encourages PvP ( that was the main thing why last season there was much PvP even more PvP when community thought that 2238 was dead than now ).Gang X takes town , gang X goes AFK for 30 minutes , gang Y takes town , GANG X waits 26 hours
..... more dots for you. It should be like that , you aren't around to defend the city , then the city is just takeable like it was last season. Those who will want to take the city will take it in night no matter what cooldown on it.
An enemy gang killing militia should gain 1 influence for every Miliitaman they kill
I already see suicide smg bursters.
One thing mentioned thousand times but i don't read anything about it influence cap/limit. Do you want to make the same mistake ?
(http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/5914/caplimit.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/821/caplimit.jpg/)
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Let me guess this will provide more influence than just standing in town or defending building x right ? If so then that's just ridiculous , you again force players to do things they completely do not want to do.
No, you would have one of these randomly assigned - then you would have to achieve what you were asked to do in the time you were given. Each option would be approximately the same.
Over x influence , once per 26 hours , " compete " for town control. What ? I can't imagine how is that gonna work at all as work in practice ? If it is like you can try to seize the control of town only once per 26 hours , then that's shit , rapid exchange of cities between factions encourages PvP ( that was the main thing why last season there was much PvP even more PvP when community thought that 2238 was dead than now ).Gang X takes town , gang X goes AFK for 30 minutes , gang Y takes town , GANG X waits 26 hours
..... more dots for you. It should be like that , you aren't around to defend the city , then the city is just takeable like it was last season. Those who will want to take the city will take it in night no matter what cooldown on it.
I think you've misunderstood.
There is the rapid exchange element, which are the randomly assigned tasks.
Then there is the 26 hourly major fight, in which only those who had collected enough influence could participate. This would be for extra loot and to unlock all the rule setting options that current influence would allow.
Lets take for Modoc for an example. Lets also presume that tasks take 20 minutes, with a 40 minute lock out (mostly for the reason that it makes it easier to explain :P )
Hour 1, Gang A takes on an event, they succeed and the rest of the hour is locked out for other gangs - they get loot and 10 influence.
Hour 2, Gang B takes on an event, they succeed and the rest of the hour is locked out for other gangs - they get loot and 10 influence.
Hour 3, Gang C takes on an event, they succeed and the rest of the hour is locked out for other gangs - they get loot and 10 influence.
Hour 4, Gang D takes on an event, they succeed and the rest of the hour is locked out for other gangs - they get loot and 10 influence.
Hour 5, Gang A takes on an event, they succeed and the rest of the hour is locked out for other gangs - they get loot and 10 influence.
Hour 6, Gang B takes on an event, they succeed and the rest of the hour is locked out for other gangs - they get loot and 10 influence.
Hour 7, Gang C takes on an event, they succeed and the rest of the hour is locked out for other gangs - they get loot and 10 influence.
Hour 8 - 25, Gang A takes on an event, they succeed and the rest of the hour is locked out for other gangs - they get loot and 190 influence.
Now, of course gangs will be stopping each other succeeding in these events all the time, but its easier to explain if they always succeed.
Gang A has 200 influence
Gang B has 20 influence
Gang C has 20 influence
Gang D has 10 influence
Hour 26 rolls around, lets say that 20 influence is the minimum required - so Gangs A, B and C can qualify to "take" the city. I imagine this would be similar to last seasons king of the hill window.
If Gang A wins they would get lots more than Gangs B and C because they have the most influence, but Gang B and C can still take it, but get lower rewards.
Whichever one of those gangs win then also get to set the rules, deploy militia as town guards if they want (which defend players, not act as gang bodyguards) and other things (that are yet to be thought up).
Influence is then all reset and the day starts again from zero, with another 26 hours to undertake events (which all involve PvP action) and at the end of that the qualifying gangs get to compete again.
EDIT: It would actually be like last season, but minus the militia defending player gangs, but instead of always king of the hill battles you would have different objectives to keep it fresher.
Then on top of that you promote one hour to give you various options over 26 hours - deploying guards/not deploying guards being the main one - sort of like a TC Champions league.
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Why ur trying to invent the wheel again ?
Why dont u want just FIX/IMPROVE current system instead trying to bring totally new (which means after u gona implement it there is gona be again zilion of new bugs and exploits).
1."randomly assigned task"
So I cant choose scenario? Its given in advance, I can take it or drop it ? Its so STUPID. We are PvP faction, we are totally not interested in some bullshit bramin sheparding, NPC(raiders) killing, slaves catching ftw.... TC was always about gangs and PvP not some ridiculous "lousy-RP-like" tasks. At least give opportunity to start chosen scenario in city major/sherif. Then all faction just gona choose Pvp scenario with timer dzizzz and that's gona boost PvP on TC.
"- Defend the town for X minutes. This is essentially just standing around in the town (!) but it gives a server message, so gangs know they have to come and stop them. This should discount all buildings
This is ok.
- Defend building X. This is basically the inverse of the above, you must keep X number of players alive and inside the building"
This is totally crap - add to that this: "Mercs should disappear if a scenario is started, or their time lapses (max 30 mins each time)."
U have situation where gang is camping some building like casino or sherif in redding (take bazookas/lazors/some gatlings avengers) and they are unbeatable without throwing inside some mercs as a meatshield. Its simply suicide to try storm such well-organised building camping. The only way to break it is to spamm some mercs to spend enemies AP and then try to storm them......
"- Repair Generator. You must bring whatever materials and use them to repair something - obvious example is the reactor in gecko. There could be multiple terminals to use, when you repair them you give a server message saying
- Stock local brahmin supplies/slave supplies - obviously Modoc/Den. Bring X number of cows, keep Y number of cows alive for 15 / 20 minutes.
- Defend Caravan while it unloads (natural finish point for any real caravans we have in the future)"
Why u force PvP players to do smth that we dont want to do ? We wanna fight not doing some single player bullshit, really.
"- Repell Raider attack. Raiders will be spawned and attack citizens over the next 15/20 minutes. If you can stop more than X citizens dying you complete your mission."
U really think we want PvE ? And btw its very stupid from tactical point of view, ur swarmed by some NPCs and ur very vulnerable to any enemy attack then.... Its just perfect time to attack...
Militia:
"Don't think they need to cost anything either."
No, they should. Loosing militia should cost defending faction some caps, "buying militia" is a great strategic factor, 4 example putting ur forces in city that way u can prevent enemy faction to buy militia, buying them to set a trap, also caps are now very "valuable" so loosing militia should mean smth to controling faction.
"[Mercs]They should disappear if a scenario is started, or their time lapses (max 30 mins each time)."
Nonesense already explained above but also mercs are now nerfed hard(commands/delay for taking weapons), costs money and its very hard to get money so loosing them hurts, but still they give opportunity to close 4 example running away to antoher grid players (cheers RunawaySoldiers), to storm some heavly camped well defended building. Mutants spamming days are over - multilevel nerf.
"They don't act like the controlling gangs mercs, they act like guards, enforcing the towns rules. They will attack even controlling gang memebers. "
[/i] This is the biggest fail of all time, so what I cant kill enemies scouts, sneakers couse my own militia gona attack me ? Ur trying to make from TC towns some new NCR trolling heaven ? jesus.. man. I can agree on that militia dont attack just everyone I will attack. But it should protect faction members from any attacks and also do not attack them if theyr attacking someone omg its just obvious.
"An enemy gang killing militia should gain 1 influence for every Miliitaman they kill."
[/i] Another great fail... so i can just take city by non stop killing militia 1 by one by some SD sneaker. Just epic idea...
Just STOP all that.
Make this:
Complete PvP promoting system:
Based on current one - rework+fixes.
1. Max influence capped at specific levels.
-Redding and BH = 70
-Den and Gecko = 40
-Klamath and Modoc = 20
(this will provide a chance for smaller gangs to take some cities)
2. Gaining 1 influence point decrease automaticly other gangs influence by 1 point.
So when ur faction has 70/40/20 all other factions has 0.
3. Message about faction X getting influence in city Y appears for all (any)factions members on server.
4. No TC zones except buildings - they are excluded from gaining influence.
5. The pace of influence gaining depends from equipment and numbers, tier 3 and level cap needed to be counted.
6. Loot in lockers is generating for each 30 minutes of holding town. Faction members presence not needed. The longer u have city the better rewards ur getting.
7. After taking city u can enforce laws by militia:
- no sneak available
- no weapon in hand available
- kill militia killers on sight (they are attacked automaticly by militia if they enter back to city after killing militia)
8. Militia number cutted to 10, only Sg/Ew/Bg militia.
9. No possibility to add mercs to militia.
10. Faction can start getting influence only if there is no militia in town (so mostly it means dead)
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Most of this sounds solid and i'm looking forward for this all ,
the only thing i don't like is the random assignment why random ? Like we don't have enough randomness in the game , why add more ... seriously please give us the option to choose or at least choose but those assignments that are more complicated than just sitting around doing nothing could be rewarded slightly more. Random is bad.
Hour 1, Gang A takes on an event, they succeed and the rest of the hour is locked out for other gangs - they get loot and 10 influence.
Hour 2, Gang B takes on an event, they succeed and the rest of the hour is locked out for other gangs - they get loot and 10 influence.
etc.etc.
Influence is then all reset and the day starts again from zero, with another 26 hours to undertake events (which all involve PvP action) and at the end of that the qualifying gangs get to compete again.
So when day resets , there will be some period of time when it will not be possible to take the city at all or you will still be able to take it in any time and still get rewards and everything else based on influence ? End of the day ... that's what i'm wondering about.
1. Max influence capped at specific levels.
-Redding and BH = 70
-Den and Gecko = 40
-Klamath and Modoc = 20
(this will provide a chance for smaller gangs to take some cities)
2. Gaining 1 influence point decrease automaticly other gangs influence by 1 point.
So when ur faction has 70/40/20 all other factions has 0.
3. Message about faction X getting influence in city Y appears for all (any)factions members on server.
4. No TC zones except buildings - they are excluded from gaining influence.
5. The pace of influence gaining depends from equipment and numbers, tier 3 and level cap needed to be counted.
6. Loot in lockers is generating for each 30 minutes of holding town. Faction members presence not needed. The longer u have city the better rewards ur getting.
7. After taking city u can enforce laws by militia:
- no sneak available
- no weapon in hand available
- kill militia killers on sight (they are attacked automaticly by militia if they enter back to city after killing militia)
8. Militia number cutted to 10, only Sg/Ew/Bg militia.
9. No possibility to add mercs to militia.
I support and approve this.
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Militia would be used to guard the town, a gang should be able to clear them out easily, but they should be able to stop random PKing.
If everyone could read the post, before commenting, that would be best.
20 militia is too much, 10 seems too little, maybe 15 would be perfect?
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10 militia seems fine , less npc's to battle equals better gameplay.
No, they should. Loosing militia should cost defending faction some caps, "buying militia" is a great strategic factor, 4 example putting ur forces in city that way u can prevent enemy faction to buy militia, buying them to set a trap, also caps are now very "valuable" so loosing militia should mean smth to controling faction.
Nonesense already explained above but also mercs are now nerfed hard(commands/delay for taking weapons), costs money and its very hard to get money so loosing them hurts, but still they give opportunity to close 4 example running away to antoher grid players (cheers RunawaySoldiers), to storm some heavly camped well defended building. Mutants spamming days are over - multilevel nerf.
Oh yeah this makes a lot of sense too.
This is the biggest fail of all time, so what I cant kill enemies scouts, sneakers couse my own militia gona attack me ? ........
This. Random guys just goes into BH , starts logging off characters in some building for a strategic key point to use against us later and i can't do anything , because i have militia in the city. Kinda doesn't make sense for me ....
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@rascal
perfect. that's all we need for a simple and nice pvp setup.
@solar
the fonline 2238 community does not want rp-tc. No matter what kind of stuff would be introduced, it would always boil down to 2 people doing the clicking while everyone else is youtubing until the enemy arrives. And then you have the usual fight and noone cares if any caravans or cows get caught in the crossfire.
if you want to introduce pvp with some more interaction then go for it. After a decent tc system is set up. In order to set up a working tc system with these kind of gimmicks there is a lot more work to be done and honestly, I don't see it happening in 2238. I dont blame anyone for it and dont expect anything, but this is how it is. Half assed systems will be abused and exploited and it's better to save the devs some time by not even trying anything in that direction.
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the fonline 2238 community does not want rp-tc. No matter what kind of stuff would be introduced, it would always boil down to 2 people doing the clicking while everyone else is youtubing until the enemy arrives. And then you have the usual fight and noone cares if any caravans or cows get caught in the crossfire.
I couldn't say it better.
The larger part of 2238 community are just pure fighters bad or good doesn't matter , but don't force us to do some fake RP. As i stated before , give us a choice , those who will want to guard brahmins and repair generators will do that IF their interested in that and everyone else will take what suits them better and everyone is happy.
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Sigh, I can see this was a waste of time.
It would take me infinitely longer to explain why what you are saying completely misses the point than it would to think it all up myself and ask players I know can provide decent feedback individually.
The idea behind the different events is to give some other tactical problems besides where to stand around in a town. So TC isn't doomed to be an endless repetition of the same thing.
The examples there are an illustration of the concept, as that post is the concept post(!), rather than things which will actually work - pointing that out is totally useless.
I'll give this until the morning, if it doesn't become constructive then this experiment will be declared a failure.
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The idea behind the different events is to give some other tactical problems besides where to stand around in a town. So TC isn't doomed to be an endless repetition of the same thing.
if you had any tc experience you could tell that tc battles rarely are the same thing.
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The idea behind the different events is to give some other tactical problems besides where to stand around in a town. So TC isn't doomed to be an endless repetition of the same thing.
I get what your trying to achieve , even if you implemented such " objectives " we wouldn't see it that way as some problem but just plain useless , not needed etc. etc. as John said.
you have the usual fight and noone cares if any caravans or cows get caught in the crossfire.
By the way we have to solve other much complicated tactical problems than guarding cows , repairing generators or fighting random npc's spawned in a city , like the position of enemy faction when attacking , now that can be a problem so at least something good was done this wipe , no TC zone witch adds more variety ( Still need to cut off some corners and it's perfect , maybe even some buildings ). Again as john said barely the same thing.
I'll give this until the morning, if it doesn't become constructive then this experiment will be declared a failure.
You can always try to improve this system it wouldn't take as much time as well could prove much more efficient to do so , rascals post is just a concept of .... no not a concept precise things for TC to be enjoyable at the moment. Rascals promote system is sum of many player consensus , concepts that many people have agreed on , not only in our TS but here on forum too. It just contains the most basic stuff that needs to be fixed now , limit on influence , no merc militia , less militia , reworked speed of influence decrease/gain etc. etc. This is what players on forum were asking for and for a damn good reason.
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Solar i like it all and I would play this game again if it was implemented,
tbh first of all u supposed to focus on fixin more important matters like trade, and crafting system, balancing guns and armors, making game easier for loners and new players ( and i really mean it, im not a noob. Ive played as a loner again and its a pain in the ass(worse than ever), I dont see any new player keep playing this game for more than 1 day), and to do the things u want to do(new TC) u need a bigger player pool, so go back to basics. Crafting simple guns and ammo supposed to be easier. It took me 2h to craft one 10 mm pistol that i lost in 5 min srsly who is gonna play a game like that ?
(i know trolls are gonna say u are doing it wrong, u need a power alt gather fruits craft a flamer gather stuff, get another alt tag repair science lvl it up with flamer etc, in 50 hours u can have ur first sniper alt)
WTF this is what this game became ..
crafting simple armors shotguns pistols supposed to be easy 1 metal parts + 1 junk thats it, simple ammo the same, 2 gundpowder no more for 100 bullets, on the other side u can focus on balancing power builds and high tier armors, weapons. Lower the ammount of better ore and minerals and so on.
its like a pyramid scheme u think about the very top for the few ( most of them dont like it anyway )
while there is nothing to support the bottom
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Instead of doing everything all at once. Do it in steps. Cap influence should have happened weeks ago. Start with tweaks(capping influence), instead of letting this go on for so long. Once fixes are added one by one, then other things will become more obvious.
TC should not be a quest, all the brahmin and other stuff could be optional when town is quiet and people are bored. Maybe whoever does the quest gets some loot, and faction holding the town also gets some loot. These quests should not affect influence.
Something else I may add, I like to rp sometimes and hang out in northern towns. The old system allowed this. PVP to take town or defend, then relog to rp char and mess around. With influence the entire time someone is in town is considered tc time, cant relax and cant relog to rp.
Influence forces enemy sneakers to kill afks, need to constantly be on guard. Last season, people only sneakburst around to randomly kill people for fun instead of for TC objective. Any TC objective that involves presence will just keep up the afk/sneak burster game. Need to worry about every single bluesuit because they are likely to have a bomb and lie about their reason for being in town.
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Sigh, I can see this was a waste of time.
;)
Do not let this get you down. I still believe influence is a beautiful concept that just still needs a lot of work. You are a developer, you should be used to people complaining and trying to press their interests.
TC used to be a great source of income for the strongest, and those people (noticably from a single gang) just refuse to let it go. When you guys nerfed stealing from NPC factions, were you worried about thieves complaining?
For starters, questing for influence is a beautiful concept, though it should not really replace the current system, more like add to it - benefits for the winners, penalties for the losers; while keeping the influence as it is intact; as i said many times before, this system is great, dragged down only by people not being able to grasping the concept. When i said that the only bug this system has is Rogues, i wasnt just trolling. The fact is, once they are unable to keep this up (which is the reason for all this grief), it will become unleashed and should be working as it was supposed to.
It just takes a little time, thats it.
Call it unnatural selection.
1) influ quests
Now, with that being said, imagine influ quests not giving set value of influence, but percentage of current one (in both benefits and penalties) for the gang that starts the event, directly influencing its difficulity - for example,
Gang A starting raiders event on influ 300 spawns 30 raiders, giving the winning faction 30 influ points, -30 to the one that looses, handout is distributed accordingly.
Gang B starting the same event on influ 20 spawns 2 raiders, giving winners 2 influ... well, you get it.
Now what this should do is to encourage participating on whatever influ for both sides, making it more difficult for the leading faction to sustain the city, giving insane boosts and loot to even absolutely new competitors, yet still keeping the original concept of the "city caretakers", if i may.
Decreasing influ as a penalty should equalize gaps before factions and keep the influ from reaching ungodly levels.
2) Influ gain
Pretty much stated above.
(Though it would be nice to see it not stopping at pure once-a-day events, getting tiny influ + and - by little thigs, either quests done by faction members in the city, sum of members rep there {which would cover not only any indecent behavior, but also trading rep gains, FA/Doc on npcs and so on}
- gang member does this and that for the city, gets xp for the quest, reward AND his gang gets 0,00005 influ.)
3) militia
In my opinion, adding merc militia should not be cancelled. Getting a good merc militia means a lot of hard work, including caps and gear. Now with in which rate they are slaughtered (and will be after it means gaining influ) its just one of the insane things. If anyone wants to work that hard for something, let him have it. It will be gone, eventually. Another case of unnatural selection. Muties walking the streets are just a result of some gangs getting too much too easy. Working on this concept, it _will_ fix itself soon.
Same goes for militia numbers. If the 20 militiants are spread across the city, they still are not enough. (and spreading them is what this system actually needs), and i am not talking bonehead pvp not enough; im talking secure city not enough. Again, this should just be again achieved with another hard work. Starting the town at 10 militias, unlocking additional "special" quests - lets say - every 10th consequent won event. New dialogue at metzgers/sheriffs/whatevers opens up, where you can tell him you desperately need more guards, he tells you more people are actually willing to join in, as far as you provide capacities/enough food supplies for them.
For example,
Gang A (the fellas with 300 influ) won 10 consequent events, now there is an option to bring 500 iguanas, 500 nukas and blah blah blah, that opens aditional 5 militia spots. After another 10 won events, boss tells you that they dont have where to stay, but there is an abandoned gasstation/water purification plant/blahblah just outside of the city, that only needs to be cleared out of muties...
Now, opening these slots, having 20 militias in town, you could still continue getting more spots for reinforcements (much like protected cities have). This makes a good ground for long time rp town control.
If influ drops too low, or the gang looses 10 cons, those slots will be gone again.
In a nutshell, more hard work, better set-up city, harder to defend. Thats something pvp apes can do too.
Of course, we are talking player-run justice here, that WOULD be hard concept and WOULD include tons of controversials, like KoS lists and so.
Conclusion
Truth be told, i feel bad for you guys getting so much s*it for something so good, seeing it not working and more. I do believe this concept is one of the best this server ever seen, and would deserve more understanding. As i stated many times before, we all know reasons for this system not working, and if we think hard about this we know that its just something that time will fix.
Im not going again into earning tc rewards by keeping the city prosper, as it seems that its out of the question. But seeing that another ways are considered that would put this system further towards hard work for players is just awesome.
What we see now is (some gang) not being able to keep up on all fronts and all approaches by newly rising competition. This will make bigger and bigger difference, until we will see warzones in 1-2 cities, where it stops. Now, this will come with time, this is no astrology, this is a way of progress. With more work required by the players, cities will be able to be divided between factions and provide variety much faster.
Keep up the good work,
your only fan.
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Why not split TC towns into 3 categories with different rules (which would influence how fast you can take town, how many people you need and what to do to trigger "control" and how behave to keep it easier and get benefits from it):
- "total anarchy" (Modoc, Klamath) - pure PvP TC, no militia, very little rules and simple to take part even by small gangs, raids at nights etc
- "more regulated TC" (Gecko, Den) pure PvP TC but with militia and more ways to control town, benefits for simple PKing/holding town longer but not much else, rules suitable for medium groups
- "roleplay TC" (Redding, Broken Hills) PvP with many features/mechanics that highly encourages playing in similar style to past "roleplay town" projects... many profits for gangs who don't just pew pew newcomers etc, most suitable for big gangs/organized alliances and not easy to take over with quick raids unless gang is only pking there
just a general idea, I leave details about rules to experts...
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Why not split TC towns into 3 categories with different rules (which would influence how fast you can take town, how many people you need and what to do to trigger "control" and how behave to keep it easier and get benefits from it):
- "total anarchy" (Modoc, Klamath) - pure PvP TC, no militia, very little rules and simple to take part even by small gangs, raids at nights etc
- "more regulated TC" (Gecko, Den) pure PvP TC but with militia and more ways to control town, benefits for simple PKing/holding town longer but not much else, rules suitable for medium groups
- "roleplay TC" (Redding, Broken Hills) PvP with many features/mechanics that highly encourages playing in similar style to past "roleplay town" projects... many profits for gangs who don't just pew pew newcomers etc, most suitable for big gangs/organized alliances and not easy to take over with quick raids unless gang is only pking there
just a general idea, I leave details about rules to experts...
Finally someone get that it shouldn't be pain in ass rules, but fun for everyone, for those bigger and smaller gangs, dawg.
I was writing somewhere in notepad adding something to TC but I lost it , but there is scratch(very little one :S) - enable domination system, which would work somehow with those influence points in some way.
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Current system can be improved. The most important thing is that gang must be rewarded from presence, not being on worldmap.
Those scenarios mentioned in first post could be done by random players visiting the town. So it'd be like this: gang comes in, caps the town with 15 min timer, gets some minor loot. Now the town is theirs but the locker doesn't generate anything on its own. You got to do stuff inside the town or have someone else do it. You don't have to be inside as long as someone does those scenarios.
This system is blamed to encourage afking in towns. In previous session you could afk on worldmap and still get rewards.
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This needs to have all the details ironed out ahead of time, because (unsurprisingly) people are starting to get sick of remaking this ;)
Then why don't you stop remaking it?
- Take previous TC rules.
- Get rid of glitches (no merc adding to the militia, militia limited to max . 8, no gauss militia, balanced rewards). Things that were annoying were already explained by players in prewipe thread about TC started by Ghosthack, pretty clearly.
- ??????
- Profit?
If you want to come up with absolutely new TC system, it's likely to fail the more complicated it gets. That's why I don't understand why you don't just improve TC system that was tested in all possible ways already.
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If you want to come up with absolutely new TC system, it's likely to fail the more complicated it gets. That's why I don't understand why you don't just improve TC system that was tested in all possible ways already.
Damage has been done as influence already implemented somehow , although i agree it would not be a bad idea to just take previous TC and perfect it step by step.
Instead of doing everything all at once. Do it in steps. Cap influence should have happened weeks ago. Start with tweaks(capping influence), instead of letting this go on for so long. Once fixes are added one by one, then other things will become more obvious.
This.
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If you want to come up with absolutely new TC system, it's likely to fail the more complicated it gets. That's why I don't understand why you don't just improve TC system that was tested in all possible ways already.
I'd like to have an answer for that one as well.
Also, why did you even come up with a tc system that is so exploitable? Did you really not think of hotel room overnight proxying? or was it part of the plan?
As others said, the influence system can be implemented to get optional rewards out of a town, maybe to get some extra militia (5 on top of 10) and some extra ammo in the chest but that's it. For the actual capping, a 15 minute timer just works best.
Bottom line I rather have a working mitsubishi than a broken porsche.
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Looks like everyone can agree on influence cap, tc timer, less militia and influence gain areas (buildings, hotel rooms).
In my opinion militia shouldn't participate in gang vs gang situations at all. Don't let npcs mess with player to player bussiness. Could even be that once a gang starts the timer, militia simply walks away and comes back once someone has the town.
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Well, i will try to be constructive, hope my opinion helps a bit :) Here is my two cents:
Influence
* A limit, maybe at around 500 or something would be good idea, at least from standing in town, i suggest that it could go above that, but by diffrent gains, like i will write more about few lines under this.
* If gang A is gaining, all other gangs should be loosing a bit more.
* Friendly gangs (mutually added to terminal) should support the highest influental faction, exemple: TSAR helps hawks in Gecko, Hawks have more influence in Gecko then TSAR, Hawks should gain influence and TSAR not (maybe even count as Hawks in that situation), in Den, when Hawks come to support TSAR, and as TSAR have more influence then hawks in Den, TSAR should get influence and Hawks not (becouse they are mutually friendly set at terminal).
* Quests might be intresting, however, just so they dont get repetive! :)
* I think influence should be gained from a lot small aspects, each limited to small amount of maximal gain AND the acual gain delayed with 1 day or 2, to avoid abusing and make it a far-sighted strategy (it feels reasonable also from rp perspective, i mean, it takes time to gain peoples trust :) ). I will expend this one and give few exemples:
- Random players doing quests in town, gives +1 each with a limit per person for one quest per 1 to 10 hours (random amount), maximum influence gained from all random people making quests could be 10.
- Amount of mined resources and obtained resources in all kinds in town, 100 ore mined by a player would give 1 influence point, same player would be limited to 1 influence point per 1 to 10 hours (random amount), maximum could be also 10 per 10-24 hours.
- Trading, not sure how it works and what numbers you guys have to play with, but i suppose there is some value of trade, i suggest something simillar with trade to above with low maximum gain aswell.
- Specific things in towns, like slave trading, also could be in play.
- Amount of words said inside town by non-faction controlled player, limited to max gain 5.
- Highest amount of non controlling faction players in a town, with limit for max gain as 10.
- Average amount of non-controlling-faction players in town per 24 hours, with limit of max 10 gain per this 10-24 ofc.
- Amount of dead non-controlling-faction players in town per 24 hours, limit for individual player 1 per 10-24 hours, and limit for max 5 negative influence points per 24 hours.
- Items crafted aswell. Same way.
My idea is this scheme, of first maximum gain of each happening per character, and a global limit for all characters within the happening, the acual gain affect delayed by 24-36 hours. The idea synopsis is That a sum of statistics that will show that the faction is treating the town well and acually makes it grow in player intrest should be rewarded with influence.
Militia
Well, i wouldint touch it atm, they are still dumb, and the militia settings doesint seem to work. I think that needs fixing first, making them a little smarter before you weaken them.
NPCs like beckys guards are really annoying through... They are really dumb.
Otherwise i am supriced so many people have to say something about militia, becouse we just killed militia 2 or 3 times since the wipe personally... Its mostly unnecessery procedure in current state.
TC Generally
I agree with points that there could be diffrent TC in diffrent places. But i wouldint turn towns into pvp madness. It should be wars between towns (like between us vs SoT in Den, or Hawks vs SoT in Gecko, or BHH vs SoT in BH) not small fights that last 15 minutes. I suggest to give this small fight opportunity in other places, like maripossa, or maybe turn Reno(?) into 4 capture the flag zones (mordino, slavadores etc) also with income from some box as a candy (or banana like Wichura would say?). Necropolis? Warehouse? Ares Silo? Could give something uniqe maybe with old TC timer or some other pvp mode, dunno, an idea.
My Review of this one month
This influence system can give some very enjoyable battles, that last a lot longer then last session. I have two exemples of great fights i been participating in, one was in Klamath when we camped trapper ruins north, we were loosing one after another, in the end (after like 1 hour) we were only 5 left trying to make a stand, it was really fun. Another one was not as far as yersterday night, when Hawks came to aid us in Den, we faught heavy fights against SoTs until 3 am, both sides had heavy losses at moments, if you ask me it was very entertaining! :)
the fonline 2238 community does not want rp-tc. No matter what kind of stuff would be introduced, it would always boil down to 2 people doing the clicking while everyone else is youtubing until the enemy arrives. And then you have the usual fight and noone cares if any caravans or cows get caught in the crossfire.
"Everybody thinks like me!" ::)
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I especially like the idea of giving quests for Town control the opening was good one I would welcome something like that.
Also kttdestroyer's post seems interesting too.
The idea to make different TC zones where is no need for else just PvP I think is good too but I would rather see an extra area for these like Ares Silo, Vault Vilage (from the restoration project), or some noname area.
One thing that disturbed me about milita was that they rarely fit the area. They probably get less usefull this way but I would love to see them made from locals like at Gecko ghouls at Den slavers at Brokken hills unity patrol at Redding miners, something that fits there. It would disballance the cities a bit but maybe give different number for towns like 1 squad for Brokken hills 2 for Redding 3 for Den and Gecko. 1 squad should 6-8.
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Sorry Destro but i must write it:
Well, i will try to be constructive, hope my opinion helps a bit :) Here is my two cents:
...Bigger swarms, more waiting, more PvMilitia...
My opinion is the same as Kilgores:
1. Take previous TC rules. - Less waiting...
2. No mercenaries adding to the militia. - It was totally gay.
3. Militia limited to max . <10 - Its about PvP not PvE
4. No high-tech in militias hands like Gauss pistols, Pulse pistols and other almost unavailable shit. - It was just stupid.
Influence SUCKS balls.
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Why not split TC towns into 3 categories with different rules
I personally believe that this system, under these circumstances, will eventually come to that. What we have right now is The Hawks somewhat sustaining two cities with occasional WW2, yet still somewhat allowing people in; Klamath getting fought of by smaller gangs (one of which will eventually win and set up some scenery of their likes); and SoT constantly pwning anything that moves in 3 cities. Now sarmatians are putting up hard competition for Den, that is long-term unsustainible by SoT. When this falls, there will be redding constantly fought of because of the very giving, bugged TC box, and broken hills - constant warzone as eversince i can actually remember.
Thats the beautiful thing about influence system - it allows all of this and more, all done by itself with pure evolution.
I agree with points that there could be diffrent TC in diffrent places.
Moving PvP (along with according rewards) outside of the cities is what i suggested many times, also. There are a lot of places capable of that, even with nice background stories. You can still play king of the hill, maybe even with old tc system, in one of these places, not ruining the game for everyone else.
Also, why did you even come up with a tc system that is so exploitable? Did you really not think of hotel room overnight proxying? or was it part of the plan?
Every idea takes time, work and lot of trial/error to implement. As i said before, influence system just didnt count on SoT extreme exploitation level. Just try to imagine it without them and i am sure you will get the picture.
Looks like everyone can agree on influence cap, tc timer, less militia and influence gain areas (buildings, hotel rooms).
I cant. Influence is the only thing in this game that moves towards long-term things to do. Now, that is actually what this server needs. Capping the influence would just move it back to short-term. Can anyone agree that should not happen?
I really feel kinda alone in all this and i have no idea why.
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I cant. Influence is the only thing in this game that moves towards long-term things to do. Now, that is actually what this server needs. Capping the influence would just move it back to short-term. Can anyone agree that should not happen?
I really feel kinda alone in all this and i have no idea why.
Then it boils down how infuence works. Most important is that a gang can't outdo something another gang did previously without actually meeting this other gang. Like this: gang a caps during night, gang b caps during daytime and everyone is pissed off.
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Then it boils down how infuence works. Most important is that a gang can't outdo something another gang did previously without actually meeting this other gang. Like this: gang a caps during night, gang b caps during daytime and everyone is pissed off.
Bigger influ decreasing is what we could agree on. Should be at least some fraction of the other gangs gain, not stable 0.005 for any gaining tick. Though in my suggestion, cutting down influ should be taken care of by them quests.
And yeah, this situation was mentioned, namecalled, whined about, ..., tons of times. And yes, i admit its not the best situation to have, but as i said, its just temporary. Consider it fighting evil with evil. Once this problem is gone, you will se completely different TC.
On another note; i dont think everyone is pissed off. I am patient. EasyGainers are pissed off (lack of ability to keep up) and PvPers are pissed off (losing grounds, which should be fixed by moving pvp opurtunities elsewhere).
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i dont think everyone is pissed off. I am patient. EasyGainers are pissed off (lack of ability to keep up) and PvPers are pissed off (losing grounds, which should be fixed by moving pvp opurtunities elsewhere).
I'm just not in a good mood , so i will just verbally destroy you if you keep talking about things you don't know and don't understand and have not much to do with.
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I'm just not in a good mood , so i will just verbally destroy you if you keep talking about things you don't know and don't understand and have not much to do with.
all bow down before T-888, master of this game. does the "T" stand for troll or something else? i really wanna know.
people don't DARE say your opinion before T-888 he will verbally destroy you! BEWARE!
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And yeah, this On another note; i dont think everyone is pissed off. I am patient. EasyGainers are pissed off (lack of ability to keep up) and PvPers are pissed off (losing grounds, which should be fixed by moving pvp opurtunities elsewhere).
You would be pretty damn pissed off if every night every week some other group underdid whatever you did during your gaming time.
That's why the tc rewards must be situational and directly dependent on what was done inside the town during the tc. What happened before the gang entered shouldn't matter and what will happen once they leave shouldn't concern them or their enemies in any way. Maybe the long term plan suffers but it's impossible to uphold because people have to sleep and work sometimes.
That's why all sorts of "hold town for x days without interrupt to get more rewards" features should be out of picture.
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all bow down before T-888
Very clever i'm like speechless now , anyway i already proved that he doesn't understand anything what makes a solid TC system in one of the topics that touched this matter and yet again he is pointing out the same nonsense he did before.
If thats what you call fun, then you just have to be eradicated. Simple as that. And you will. If your players dont want to stand around the town, this TC system is not for you.
There's more nonsense i could show you , as he stated he understand what the system need to be and how it has to be played that those who just like to PvP in cities are obsessed and don't understand anything.
So yes if he starts talking again i will just utterly verbally destroy him.
Nobody wants to spend hours in cities afk'ing grinding up some influence , none cares about fake RP in TC that could be only optional wouldn't hurt me.
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Do not troll in here thanks.
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The greates TC conception i v seen. Make's sense of defention of town and game can be more interesting at all, maybe small gangs can participate after this too. I even have small opinion about task can be really hard, and based on gang members, and town control can be fixed per 4-12 hours (based on task-complete-points50%-100%). Also i think if other gangs cant participate (by help or be against of mission-making-gang) in same time it can be even better.
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You would be pretty damn pissed off if every night every week some other group underdid whatever you did during your gaming time.
That's why the tc rewards must be situational and directly dependent on what was done inside the town during the tc. What happened before the gang entered shouldn't matter and what will happen once they leave shouldn't concern them or their enemies in any way. Maybe the long term plan suffers but it's impossible to uphold because people have to sleep and work sometimes.
That's why all sorts of "hold town for x days without interrupt to get more rewards" features should be out of picture.
You bet i would be pissed, anyone would. As i said - right now its just evil ways of fighting worse case of evil; eventually, better organized/more timezone spread gangs/aliances will prevail. And there will be no need for this, or it could be easily prevented; even character with tagged gambling, speech and outdoorsman can defeat an idler army.
I suggested earned TC rewards numerous times; we all know there is something as global money pool; separating it (purely for statistical reasons) to each city/area, paying percentage given by influence (and influencing influence by little, inner city tasks) would be a beautiful way to pay out for in-city activities and make them towns working again - players (even those that claim they do that for PvP) would change their minds about pwning slavers/questers/traders pretty quickly.
Adding on it, running further from the topic, the system of "upgrading" the city for controling, continuously victorious faction, could include things like "unlocking" further player facilities, upgrading local traders tier and much more.
Just imagine that, cities working again.
And sure. People need to sleep, people need to work, so on. Thats why is TC done in gangs, not by single person. When i say hard work, i surely do not mean a single nolife doing everything. If enough people with common interest - that being sustain a city and make it work - get together, they should be allowed to achieve this goal.
Influence, as it is (maybe without the rogues, as stated above) is providing for both; for them spread/"nolife" gangs to sustain, or for others to constantly fight over cities as in your vision.
So yes if he starts talking again i will just utterly verbally destroy him.
Im so afraid im actually shaking here.
Very quickly, as the reply to you. Other than you constantly trying to insult me, i have no beef with you. In my opinion, Rogues (means not only you, understand?) are sole reason why this TC system does not work and their constant spaming about it is just annoying. (Trolling in constructive threads, really?) I have stated this fact numerous times and i stand by it.
The very same goes for the fact that there is no place for you to try insulting me as a person. I get it, i am the stupidest guy around, i dont understand anything and i make everything worse. Thats why my idea is being considered to implement, cause, you know, for sure, developers are idiots too. The only clever people around are Rogues and they know how this system should work, because then it will be better for everybody. Considering them Rogues as everybody.
We all know you dont like it. Can you, please, let us discuss it anyways? You know, just for the heck of it.
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2238 community doesn't want RP-TC nor spend enormous time loitering in cities or doing quests to just have some quality PvP what you can't appreciate.
Again... So, Me and Ernest kind of people are not part of community but you are? :D
Adding on it, running further from the topic, the system of "upgrading" the city for controling, continuously victorious faction, could include things like "unlocking" further player facilities, upgrading local traders tier and much more.
Think this is great idea, and would make the gangs that want to do something with town acually feel that there is progress in their doings. This could include extra traders, bars opened, extra companions maybe (like 15% max more chance that they will show up in the town). Maybe even money and experience gotten from quests could be increased (ofc with a max amount so it doesint get all to high, maybe max multiplicated by 1.5). Another awesome thing that i would presonally love is that some buildings could be destroyed, and the faction in control could do a quest or gathering mission to help it run again.
Sorry Destro but i must write it:
My opinion is the same as Kilgores:
1. Take previous TC rules. - Less waiting...
2. No mercenaries adding to the militia. - It was totally gay.
3. Militia limited to max . <10 - Its about PvP not PvE
4. No high-tech in militias hands like Gauss pistols, Pulse pistols and other almost unavailable shit. - It was just stupid.
No problems man, thank you for commenting :) we all have diffrent ideas of the game i am sure that no-one has exacly same view on how tc or game overally should look like :)
I also know you enjoy mostly pvp in the game (with some rp, but mostly pvp i think, heh, i never forget how well you fitted into the caravan run from redding with wwp, when you took role as the robber leader that assaulted the caravan), so i really think in making few locations more pvp like (pre session) and in other the way its now, i think then most people will be happy :)
I definetly agree about high-tech militia, but i would say that this works both ways, why not have ability what kind of militia you want to buy? who wants a spear leather jacket militia? dunno, but the militia buying could be reworked a lot i think. Simple rework would be like manero said here, remove the high-tech, and i would add, also remove the useless militia :) Hell, maybe have some quest on training the militia? ;) Or, experience they get from combat or quests? Possiblities are endless :)
Like this: gang a caps during night, gang b caps during daytime and everyone is pissed off.
I think you are wrong avv, the only one pissed off are SoT in den (i take Den as exemple). Becouse they dont see a point in standing in town. We like to stay in town, for us its natural, but SoT only want pvp and the box. I understand them, its fine, but i am just pointing out why they are pissed, its becouse we force them to stay in town at days, thats it nothing more :)
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nor spend enormous time loitering in cities
Would rather loiter in the open, but sneak bursters hoping to inch influence keep that from happening. Loitering was fun, meet random people, meet people not scared of coming to a unguarded town or dying a few times.
First of all you don't hang around in cities , you hang around in small spaced buildings sometimes even toilets , furthermore you do that in nights when we can't do anything about it when day comes you simply are offline or have to few members to do anything. What you achieve is many afk characters from SoT in metzegers house , doesn't really hurt as that much , but it's simply stupid ( yesterday i left 2 characters unchecked for 4 hours in den and nothing happened to them ). Is this how you want TC to be ?
Its not called hanging around, its called going afk to achieve game goal. Even though goal can never be achieved(goal being to hang out in town on main street, meet people and such.) Last season we could even let non-agressive enemies hang out in town, but due to influence rules...this will never happen again. Entire time in town is TC time, so there is no time to just loiter on main street in rp alts. Always need someone, somewhere in full gear.
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Sometimes i wonder if this game has only 14 year old players.
Solar asked no trolling and first page it starts, What he suggested is just that suggestions.
I agree with what many said yes a max cap on flu.
But this game is made up of both pve gangs,rp and pure pvp. So why not try as suggested some towns pvp some rp.
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But this game is made up of both pve gangs,rp and pure pvp. So why not try as suggested some towns pvp some rp.
u have all south to do ur "rp" wonder why there are no such thing there... hmmm I know - couse those are just empty words
and please stop bullshit about - "no no ur wrong those towns are protected so u cant really do anything creative there" - u have necropolis no protection, whole city to do ur rp the hell as u just want... but ofcooz not.
and why all those "rp" projects were about Bh and Redding ? couse those towns give tons of profits like minning/shops etc gues what sherlock - nice "RP" excuse to just gain loot and feel cocky standind in the main street on redding ... geez.
north is for pvp only, period. only hypocrites or idiots think in other way.
To summ it up:
"PvE gangs" (are there really such?) kill ur muties in encounters - stay away from north cities
"RP gangs" - do ur mythical "RP" on south which is dedicated for it and if u try to do such nonesense in some north city dont cry u got raped by evil PvP apes
PvP gags - should have solid working PvP promoting system in north to have FUN in this game - otherwise server number just gona drop.. drop.... and the end is easy to predict.
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Nice nitpicking, anyway i said some towns full pvp 1 rp?
And there is nothing said about "rp" town not being raided by gangs. I am just thinking what would please both sides of the fence.
Some want just pvp, fine i like pvp as well but there is also gangs ingame that want rp. Why not allow them one town, and in return gangs(pvp) could come raid it as an example?
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u really cant read ? go and take necropolis and make ur "RP" there.
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This is not the right thread for "pvp-rp-pve" bullshit, lads.
I honestly have no idea how TC should look like (especially that it's not specified what "T" stands for - Town, Tree, Toilet, I dunno), so I won't be useful here.
north is for pvp only, period. only hypocrites or idiots think in other way.
+1, I don't like these tight-asses from Vault City either.
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yeye I really caught the joke but.... even You know what the "north" means trollochura :P
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we take north towns because they have millita (need them to help defend rp vs apes like you come all the time) and have tc chest (need to support are rp with CAPS) its not just shitty excuse for loot. most of money and items from chest are used to support rp we dont gain much trust me there. only reason we gain is because the rpers give us stuff they craft for helping them and stuff from apes like you. also.... really how can you say that rpers do it all for the loot... i mean right now tsar is trying to take den.... not redding. den has shit rewards but we do it for the RP we hope to get when you sot realize that den is not even worth defending for you guys. reallly why you guys have den? you have redding and bh where all massive rewards are. take my idea , go defend redding and bh and leave den be before another faction comes along who wants them and you will be to busy with dens shitty rewards that you will lose redding and bh.... but anyway. know the truth before you speak about rp and there defending gangs.
am really sorry solar for trolling your topic, sot just piss me off..... no common sense in them.
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Dear Solar,
first of all, i want to tell you, that i like that you want change current TC.
I have readed your suggestion and i noticed several ideas you want to implement.
a) You want to replace inactivity of gangs by their activity = scenarios. No more loitering. It is very good aproach, natural outcome of recent players and factions activities (gathering, leveling, crafting, establishing bases, and finaly player's faction scenarios).
b) Scenario system gives a great opportunity to get a life (attract players) to exact locations. Brahmin herders, gecko repairmans, .. . It is a great potential, because you can add another "TC" quests into existing system. Some of them could be more PvE, or supporting (somehow) roleplay element, others could be focused only at hardcore PVP players.
c) What is the meaning of faction controling north city? I mean if they have max influence, if they won city in combat against others, if they are able to force their rules. IMHO i dont think, that majority or most players and factions will benefit from ability to rule the city. Most wants caps, ammo, stuff, opportunity to fight, enjoy some adrenalin (would i repair gecko reactor first i would be killed first), meet randomly some friends (hey!, you are doing this quest too?) or others (hey!, dont ..#@%.) So simply, creating whole TC system, subordinate the whole mechanism to tiny group of players, is bad.
-----> I have readed other's commentary here. Most PvP players are afraid of doing something they dont want to. I understand them (i dont like loitering), but i disagree with them, that north should be only pure PvP, because scenario based "TC" offers a great opportunity for both types fo gangs (PvP only, or small gangs that wants to enjoy some risky tasks in hostile environment). And dont forget Solar, that gang PvP is also activity, you dont need to replace it by another.
My idea: Implement in every "TC" city basic repetable PVP faction quest with beacon. It could be named as s "No man's caravan". Story: In wasteland was caravan, that was attacked by raiders. All men were killed, but brahmin-drawn caravan escaped and continuied to its destiantion without any human (it is natural instinct of domesticated animal). Caravan arrived to city, where sheriff noticed it what happended (blood spots, "oh, it is johnnys caravan, he is dead!"). According to the norh city law, if possesor of property is dead, everyone who claims for the caravan's content will get it. Sheriff will declare claim (server message). If there are more claimers, acording to the wasteland law, stronger wil get it.
So every one hour (half hour?) in every city could exists PvP action created by beacon. You would need a faction of some exact strenght, discutable is kind of investition to this (500 caps?), so players would not activate it and then left.
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Back to your suggestion Solar. Anyone who fires should then not be protected by the guards, so gangs can defend themselves by returning fire and similar rules are only a great opportunity how to abuse it.
I will even eliminate the milita. Militia is the reason, why you have to create hord, if you want to PvP in city, you simply cannot play 1x1 or 2x2 PvP in cities, where militia is presented, because you dont know if that person is member of city controling gang. Militia was never strong enough to protect loitering of town possesors (= to protect their roleplay) and it was always disbalancing thing when you want to attack equivalent enemy. Why we need militia? To protect final state of Town Control in cities = LOITERING! "Nice".
If anyone wants to protect their !activity! in wasteland, he should do it by own (players, mercs, diplomacy) and when anyone who is controling TC is not active in city, he should not blocade activity of others by militia (you cannot free pvp in city with militia = becuase of random hits of militia or one sniper with bb gun ruining game of others pvp groups.
And last:
I like you want to discuss your suggestions with players. But because of high trolling and ofensive enviroment in this thread, i give you little advice. About faction PvP discuss with PvP factions only. Not with other players, but not even directly with players of PvP factions. Order to all PvP factions which were able to control at least once any town this session, to choose their ONE representative player here and talk with them only.
Best egards,
Lordus.
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Rascal, just becouse you dont like to RP doesint mean that other shouldint, right? Becouse you definetly miss the point, RP in south towns? No thanks.
If anyone wants to protect their !activity! in wasteland, he should do it by own (players, mercs, diplomacy) and when anyone who is controling TC is not active in city, he should not blocade activity of others by militia (you cannot free pvp in city with militia = becuase of random hits of militia or one sniper with bb gun ruining game of others pvp groups.
Mostly i disagree with you. I would just like to take opportunity to say more on militia. I wouldint call something for "Strong" if they can be all killed in matter of 30 minutes - 1 hour by 3 players. They are overpowered becouse they are overretarded still. And yes, that is exacly what militia is for, to unable smaller group of players (equal at some specific point of time) to be able to attack larger. It acually makes defending possible at all (or made, now there are some issues i guess).
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Mostly i disagree with you. I would just like to take opportunity to say more on militia. And yes, that is exacly what militia is for, to unable smaller group of players (equal at some specific point of time) to be able to attack larger. It acually makes defending possible at all (or made, now there are some issues i guess).
The milita absurdity is in fact, that devs are balancing and scripting, but it is not just worthless work, but it even harms fonline gameplay.
Whole problem of militia is not about it strenght or numbers. It is about its role, efectivity and side effects. I.e.: Role n.1 is to protect city against enemy takeover => partial result (most od small and part of medium gangs are unable to capture city in adequate time), but alliances or huge gang or night players can simply capture it. Result = city cannot be defended, but majority of players are unable to capture city, benefit from its quests, resources or other opportunities because of potential milita marker. Sideweffect = milita block other players activity in that city. Why? Because of noble idea of better defence of city. This is defacto what you said.
I suggested post before, that if players wants to create any activity somewhere, they should actively defense it. Bring mercs, more players, sneak scouts. Make temporary alliance. But at moment, when you leave city and you are inactive, give other players and gangs oportunity to make their own action there. Dont block it by militia.
I suggest divide scenarios into PvP beacons only and resource scenarios. I can imagine even 2 type of PvP scenarios. One for huge fights is that i suggeted post before (Dead man's caravan) with global onscreen beacon, other could be smaller. No onscreen beacon, smaller reward. Players would notice enemy presence only because of some exact location activity (i.e. NPC is texting some message about hostile faction), so only players and gangs who are active in cities can notice it and attack. This could support 2x2, 3x3 fights.
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Whole problem of militia is not about it strenght or numbers. It is about its role, efectivity and side effects. I.e.: Role n.1 is to protect city against enemy takeover => partial result (most od small and part of medium gangs are unable to capture city in adequate time), but alliances or huge gang or night players can simply capture it. Result = city cannot be defended, but majority of players are unable to capture city, benefit from its quests, resources or other opportunities because of potential milita marker. Sideweffect = milita block other players activity in that city. Why? Because of noble idea of better defence of city. This is defacto what you said.
Militia shouldn't pay any role in gang vs gang bussiness. Its role should be simply to provide feeling of safety to people who want to stay inside town, would be used against trolls, thieves and suicidebursters. Those are the main annoyance in safe towns and that's why tc towns are so comfortable to live in: you can set your own rules.
But once a tc gang marches in and starts capturing, the militia should walk away and see who wins. Militia walking away would be reasonably good suggestion for everyone to evacuate the town. While leaving they could speak like "Damn, I'ts getting too hot around here".
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But once a tc gang marches in and starts capturing, the militia should walk away and see who wins. Militia walking away would be reasonably good suggestion for everyone to evacuate the town. While leaving they could speak like "Damn, I'ts getting too hot around here".
This wont work, and i am sure if you remember how WWP was you will know what i am talking about :) Many many times militia was the only thing that saved the town from invaders, becouse attackers have one big advantage, They can attack anytime, Defenders have no idea when it will happen. This would lead to a situation like this: There are 3 active defenders in town, rest is doing something else, like crafting hunting for stuff or whatever, and 5 guys in CA and avengers jump in, they kill the defenders with easy, defenders are relaxed, most dont have drugs on even, and militia walks away. It would be a mess.
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This wont work, and i am sure if you remember how WWP was you will know what i am talking about :) Many many times militia was the only thing that saved the town from invaders, becouse attackers have one big advantage, They can attack anytime, Defenders have no idea when it will happen. This would lead to a situation like this: There are 3 active defenders in town, rest is doing something else, like crafting hunting for stuff or whatever, and 5 guys in CA and avengers jump in, they kill the defenders with easy, defenders are relaxed, most dont have drugs on even, and militia walks away. It would be a mess.
This is exactly i am talking about. Because of "roleplay" project based on "crafting hunting stuff or whatever", you need militia in cities. You were doing this "roleplay" in one city for several weeks few hours per day and militia you needed for this blocked all other time in favourite cities most of other actions. Why are you, northern city roleplayers, so obsesed with militia?
I think that it is time to accept truth. TC is at dead end. It never created adequate environment for roleplay and supporting needed requirement would only totaly eliminate others possible activities.
P.S.: I dont want to be offensive. I just think, that this game realy needs some kind of constant. Exact defined reason, why i can every day choose from several freetimes activities and one possible solution, how to spend free time could be fonline PvP action. This could be reason to leave and go back after few weeks or months, if i would like to enjoy fonline. Of course the same for regular players. I doubt, that any kind of city roleplay would give me this opportunity, it never did.
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This wont work, and i am sure if you remember how WWP was you will know what i am talking about :) Many many times militia was the only thing that saved the town from invaders, becouse attackers have one big advantage, They can attack anytime, Defenders have no idea when it will happen. This would lead to a situation like this: There are 3 active defenders in town, rest is doing something else, like crafting hunting for stuff or whatever, and 5 guys in CA and avengers jump in, they kill the defenders with easy, defenders are relaxed, most dont have drugs on even, and militia walks away. It would be a mess.
But it's ok. Once you see militia leaving, you should be smart enough to leave with it. Then you gather your pals and fight off the invaders with players. If the enemy has enough troops to start tc, they deserve to start it. In WWP we smashed our enemies more often with militia than with actual troops and our enemies hated it. Then we hated it when they took our town when we weren't around and fought us back with militia.
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This wont work, and i am sure if you remember how WWP was you will know what i am talking about :) Many many times militia was the only thing that saved the town from invaders
...and then cs learned how to take advantage of the fonline engine to kill all militia very fast with very few people.
Even with militia you need a big number of people inside to defend a town. However, if you have a militia that only atacks player groups of less than 5 people you'd be relatively safe from these constant attacks while not causing too much of an annoyance to the rest of the server.
THe problem with last wipe militia was not the militia itself, it was that 20 bg milita with 400+ hp and a critchance of 30%.
With a reasonable militia system it would be able to defend a town against small time attacks and trolls while not playing the most important role in tc. Basicall what rascal said on the first page.
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a reasonable militia system it would be able to defend a town against small time attacks and trolls while not playing the most important role in tc. Basicall what rascal said on the first page.
Basically what was written in the very first concept for militia (17.02.2010, cheers):
http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=1976.msg16027#msg16027
The mercs should be limited in numbers not to make them a real force in a normal battle, but they should be strong enough to stop bluesuit-trolls taking the town or really small, unorganised groups. In case of a real attack on town they should just give the defenders a bit more time to prepare.
Btw: the whole idea of militia going peacefully out of the town when the timer is started is probably the most ridiculous idea considering TC that I've ever read.
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Acually i dont have any idea why this talk about militia comes up, for me it doesint have anything to do with current systems problems... Did you guys got killed by militia or something? Current system makes it pointless to strike militia at all, as they will become yours after you capture the town... Hell, it is pretty much like avv suggested right now acually ;)
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2-3 people well placed can defend against 5-15 people quite well with militia. IF militia is 20 and merc militia with 400+ hp that is ;) otherwise, militia wont help you defending the town. And for the costs, well, they cost loads, so the price evens itself with the quality.
Like i said, strenght of militia is equal to their dumbness, which means high strenght of militia and low intelligence.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZKMnV_xaUc
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TC involves gear. Not really but it matters. CA and gatling lasers or miniguns and metal armor...TC involves hours/weeks of lockpicking.
Since there was no documentation on how TC actually worked one faction scooped up most of the towns right away. I do not blame the other faction for this, its what factions do. Most other factions assumed they could collect gear for a few days and head over to a town and TC for a few hours, win town and call it a day. This only lead to that one faction accumulating days worth influence. The Den took literally over 24 hours to capture the first time, 5+ hours of AFKing over week.
How does that involve gear, the precious resource that allows TC and helps win the pvp. When a faction could collect 1000+ caps in a single town every 1/2 hour for weeks they can just buy gear and blueprints, even resources. This means the top gear to play with is easily obtainable from anyone willing to sell in a cap strapped society.
Eventually all big factions will also have enough blueprints to start making carpets. No crafting timer equals instant massive carpet, it just takes being able to get the blueprint first. So gear will eventually become easy and then town control will be balanced.
Point of all this, no real documentation of TC let a faction be able to buy all the gear and supplies everyone else needs to work hard to get. So only real problem with TC is lack of proper documentation.
Wiki can be wrong at times, misleading, confusing...but this is something too big to be so vague about.
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Just a reminder, most of PvP active players agree with Rascal's points, but there (in this thread) is also gang whose players are loudly lobbying for their own view of TC.
Regarding Rascal's points, I dont agree with these:
5. The pace of influence gaining depends from equipment and numbers, tier 3 and level cap needed to be counted.
High-tech stuff shouldnt be mandatory to apply for TC. Even mid-tier should be enough (if you want to see more gangs involved)
6. Loot in lockers is generating for each 30 minutes of holding town. Faction members presence not needed. The longer u have city the better rewards ur getting.
This is totally wrong concept, gaining sth for doing nothing. Solar's concept on rewards fits better.
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This is totally wrong concept, gaining sth for doing nothing. Solar's concept on rewards fits better.
Cant agree, current system creates only unnatural need to left idle chars for night/whole day. It doesnt make any sense. Its only pain in the ass. BTW keeping town isnt "doing nothing" as u wrote. Its constant "be ready to defend" mode and also a lot of battles to defend city from enemy raids.
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Yes, but imagine scenario, when one gang dominates whole wasteland (SoT, Rogues, happened several times in the past) and they gain profit from 6 towns simultaneously - it gives huge advantage and its quite unfair for other gangs. If they need to stand in the city / do homework / whatever, you cant profit from all towns.
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its quite unfair for other gangs
What is unfair ? If a gang is strong enough to dominate whole wasteland it should gain all wastelands (6 towns) loot. Its logic.
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If they dominate fair and square, its alright...
I get your idea, you want to gain everything for no effort but thats not how it should be.
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It is fair to control everything, if they can. What isnt fair is for misleading wiki to suggest that other factions can come along and win a TC in a single setting, so factions just let sot hold those towns while they geared up after wipe. In those couple days of gearing up, massive amounts of influence was gained locking other factions into all night AFK sessions to catch up.
TC should never require presence, though it is a noble idea...only facilitates AFKing. TC rewards are different. TC rewards and actually holding the town should be split.
2 things I think should be implemented as soon as possible.
TC = taking town by force, like last season.
TC rewards = using a capped current influence system, 100 max cap.
All those quests and rp stuff suggested is cool, if it only boosts influence and TC rewards. But those can be added later. Fix the main part of TC already, everything else can be added one at a time.
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To summ it up:
"PvE gangs" (are there really such?) kill ur muties in encounters - stay away from north cities
"RP gangs" - do ur mythical "RP" on south which is dedicated for it and if u try to do such nonesense in some north city dont cry u got raped by evil PvP apes
PvP gags - should have solid working PvP promoting system in north to have FUN in this game - otherwise server number just gona drop.. drop.... and the end is easy to predict.
Yeah sure, the only way to get fun here is TC, dev efforts should be concentred in the perfection of TC. Make half of the map a PVP trench... Why is people so close minded?
PVP players just use the game as a platform to play a isometric strategic shooter.
My opinion to Solar: bring'em back old TC system, make a few fixes here and there to make everything be perfect as Rascal said. And get centered in new caravan system, farming enjoyable countermeasures and PLEASE more encounter based PVP.
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What is unfair ? If a gang is strong enough to dominate whole wasteland it should gain all wastelands (6 towns) loot. Its logic.
Then dominate it too. If you aren't in town upholding your rules and showing your presence, you don't deserve anything. You deserve rewards from risks. If you risk your gear for 15 mins, you deserve rewards from that 15 mins not more.
Getting rewards when you're not present encourages off-timezone captures which annoy everyone.
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the way rascal worded it though you would at least have to stand in town for 30 minutes with a few people to get soemthing and these people could easily be killed by another gang, breaking their stream of caps.
then again it would highly depend on militia and in the end it would all be the same anyway, but his idea still was different and reasonable.
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What is unfair ? If a gang is strong enough to dominate whole wasteland it should gain all wastelands (6 towns) loot. Its logic.
If a system allows one gang to dominate whole wasteland cities, then yes. But thats wrong conception. Look at the similarity into real world. There exists rules aimed against economical dominance, because it ruins or it has potential to ruin economical competition.
In 2238 is the same: One dominant team efectively blocks "TC" interaction amongs others and it leads into One vs others. So i think that new proposal should reduce possible domination of one team. Why? Server should not be aimed for entertaining only one gang. More factions with access to economical benefits of "TControling" means more factions joinining the combat.
the way rascal worded it though you would at least have to stand in town for 30 minutes with a few people to get soemthing and these people could easily be killed by another gang, breaking their stream of caps.
then again it would highly depend on militia and in the end it would all be the same anyway, but his idea still was different and reasonable.
Why every proposal of TC should include loitering in cities? Stay there for 30 minutes, you get reward. During last two years it means 3/4 cases of wait for nothing (except stuff) and 1/4 of cases was action.
So why not divide it, make reward and PvP as two independent "scenarios". Simply, one is beacon, second is without and needs investition (repair generator, get some stuff). It would in both cases eliminate or at least minimize loitering time in exchange of action of any type. Why? Make this game more friendly for players who dont want to sit online for hours per day if they want to join team PvP.
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The largest controlling faction have been beaten. PVP'ed till they stopped coming back, the reward was some loot...town could never be taken with so many random allied factions asserting that much control at once. Was still a fun rewardless pvp with allied factions countering the swarm.
Actual TC involves going at it alone. Not very fun. Splitting TC into in timer and TC rewards into influence would solve this. Once a TC timer runs out and town is taken, all influence is reset.
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So, there is a big problem with militia and generally town right now.
We get town, and reach influence limit, the militia is ours, however SoT has only 0.05 until take control again, so they just have to enter town and militia is their, without us even notice it, the same other way around.... Solution: Militia shouldint swap sides at all. (And a lot other things mentioned in this thread, like factions loss in influence while other gain, right now it is very little amount)
Now the town of Den looks like a real mess, we or sot can take it in matter of 1 min... Its unplayable right now :(
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TC system needs to be re-worked from the very basics imho. It has for too long meant that a town becomes a PK infested warzone unaccassable for anyone outside the gang participating in that TC. Right now, it actually encourages hanging out in the controlled cities for long periods of time and thus really makes the gang controlling them, not just run in, camp the spawn grids for few minutes, kill everyone and profit. Now when gangmembers have to hang out in TC controlled zones longer, there is less collateral dmg, even if most gangs still act like idiot PKs during TC (kill everyone on sight, even if he clearly doesn't pose any threat)
Allthough the system is faaaaaaaaaaaar away from perfect, I still think the latest update in the TC system was indeed an improvement.
This game needs less stereotype PvP gangwars and moar roleplaying people and stuff to do for non-gang players. Sure PvP is fun, but I'd like to believe there's something more to this game than that.
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Right, lets try this one then. Setting aside scenarios for now (not least because there is no one who wants to do much to TC at the moment) and try the least amount of things which can result in a fixed TC:
A mix of TC windows and Influence.
Max Influence 60 (If needs be this can be varied afterwards)
If you meet certain conditions you gain 1 influence per minute (have over 4 or 5 people, with mediocre equipment), this reduces others influence by 1
Faction can only have Influence/5 Militia - no mercs adding - no fancy equipment - able to set rules after 30 influence
Faction can only gain influence when there are no militia (or they own the militia)
Old windows return, you take the town in the old style to access rewards
Loot depends upon influence - having 60 influence would basically double the loot you would get if you took the city with 0 influence.
Server messages when town is being captured or when influence is being gained/lost.
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Sounds good, with a tiny detail: impossible to buy militia when someone else is gaining influence.
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...
500 max influence is way too much, but 60? It sounds way to little... I suggest 200, i think its pretty good, not too much not to little? Please dont make extreme from one side to another :/
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Faction can only have Influence/5 Militia - no mercs adding - no fancy equipment - able to set rules after 30 influence
so max millita is 5 and there all going to be spears am guessing :-\ . also no merc adding , what about slaves? slaves can be added? or do slaves cought as millita? also you know millita mercs are a massive cap spender so more caps in the game.
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"Influence/5" as in maximum of 12, if max influence is 60
No fancy equipment as in no gauss etc
No mercs being added seems to be a universal request
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I think gaining 1 influence per minute is just too fast, not to mention only 60 influence cap. Most of us are there for the fight itself, which with working beacon can be easily accomplished.
Influence gain should be non-linear, not capped to certain amount of people. 5 people could gain 100% of influence, 10 people 150% infl and 20 people 200% infl. The reason behind this is to prevent few alts inside city and the rest camping on wm while on the same time preventing large influence swarms.
I dont get the idea with windows, could you elaborate more ?
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The windows would work exactly like the old system did. Only difference would be influence would affect how much loot you got and who could get militia.
60 Influence and 1 influence per hour are just my guesses ... if consensus is formed around other values, then we will use them.
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That's very nice idea. Also numbers seams to be good, cap at 60 sounds reasonable, 200 is too much, it's almost 3.5h which will turn into afking. TC should be fast.
Hope to see this one in game soon :)
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First of All :
TURN OFF FAST RELOGS
Then change the TC. Your ideas are good, but it wouldnt work with current fast relogs.
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I think gaining 1 influence per minute is just too fast, not to mention only 60 influence cap. Most of us are there for the fight itself, which with working beacon can be easily accomplished.
Influence gain should be non-linear, not capped to certain amount of people. 5 people could gain 100% of influence, 10 people 150% infl and 20 people 200% infl. The reason behind this is to prevent few alts inside city and the rest camping on wm while on the same time preventing large influence swarms.
I dont get the idea with windows, could you elaborate more ?
so you want to force people to use proxy to acces to new infl lvl.
60 cap is fine. but is it still too much. i prefer max 30-50 depend from town. 1infl per minute isnt way to fast. it is way to slow. i prefer 1infl per 30s. i dont want to stand 1h in one city and make tc waiting simulator.
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First of All :
TURN OFF FAST RELOGS
this is only good thing that has came of this era why you wish to ruin it?
maybe instead make it so once tc has started no one can enter the tc town besides thous allready in.
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Solar, whining people about a specific thing doesint mean its something most people want, if people like something, they usually dont whine about it and dont care as long as it remains there... Well, i am a bit dissipointed about mercs militia removal, what are rich gangs gonna waste their caps on now? ;P even if merc militia wasint impossible to break through at MAX of their strenght it was possible to get, like our militia in redding last wipe, 4 of those militias took no less then 3 sometimes 6 hours to prepare, they cost a lot, just gauss cost 250k back then which we used sometimes for militia. Did they hold the town? Nope, not at their own, they just gave higher chance for defending against enemy attack.
Oh well, just saying, the people that whine about merc militia mostly never prepared them or baught them themselves, they only see final result ;)
About influence, so you mean that 60 influence is going to take longer to gain then if it was currently 60 influence? Could you maybe tell how much this new 60 influence would mean in old influence amount around? :)
maybe instead make it so once tc has started no one can enter the tc town besides thous allready in.
Yeah, make semi-permanent deaths in TC towns, if you die two times in 60 minutes, you cant see the town any more with this specific char ;P
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Nope, not at their own, they just gave higher chance for defending against enemy attack.
sure i miss times when 6-7heavly armed players couldnt take city when 2-3 bhh/tttla noobs were camping behind 20 500+mercs bg/snipers militia with 35%critical chance...
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Right, lets try this one then. Setting aside scenarios for now (not least because there is no one who wants to do much to TC at the moment) and try the least amount of things which can result in a fixed TC:
A mix of TC windows and Influence.
Max Influence 60 (If needs be this can be varied afterwards)
If you meet certain conditions you gain 1 influence per minute (have over 4 or 5 people, with mediocre equipment), this reduces others influence by 1
Faction can only have Influence/5 Militia - no mercs adding - no fancy equipment - able to set rules after 30 influence
Faction can only gain influence when there are no militia (or they own the militia)
Old windows return, you take the town in the old style to access rewards
Loot depends upon influence - having 60 influence would basically double the loot you would get if you took the city with 0 influence.
Server messages when town is being captured or when influence is being gained/lost.
Ok but few questions:
- What happens when you have taken the town in 15 mins and you leave town?
- Does the locker regenerate rewards when no gangmembers are inside?
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Max Influence 60 (If needs be this can be varied afterwards)
If you meet certain conditions you gain 1 influence per minute (have over 4 or 5 people, with mediocre equipment), this reduces others influence by 1
Faction can only have Influence/5 Militia - no mercs adding - no fancy equipment - able to set rules after 30 influence
Faction can only gain influence when there are no militia (or they own the militia)
This looks like an improvement.
"Old windows" doesn't sound good, though. With old windows, there was like 1 hour action in every northern town per 24h. You could also forget about some towns completely because their windows appeared at some strange hours, what made things even worse with various people being in different time zones.
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This looks like an improvement.
"Old windows" doesn't sound good, though. With old windows, there was like 1 hour action in every northern town per 24h. You could also forget about some towns completely because their windows appeared at some strange hours, what made things even worse with various people being in different time zones.
For now TC windows must be implemented as soon as possible to cure TC, because it is easy and fast to implement, and after it can be developed some new concept.
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msh aproves!
tc windows is good solution for organised gang fights, everday. dont know why that was removed on first place.
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Yeah, I've confused the issue by calling them windows. I mean the 15 minute counter to take the town, like last season, not the old windows system.
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Yeah, I've confused the issue by calling them windows. I mean the 15 minute counter to take the town, like last season, not the old windows system.
(http://clip2net.com/clip/m0/1329902828-clip-7kb.jpg)
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I'm guessing thats a picture, which is blocked at work :P
Anyway, anymore thoughts on this before I go and pester scripters to do stuff?
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I'm guessing thats a picture, which is blocked at work :P
Anyway, anymore thoughts on this before I go and pester scripters to do stuff?
Yes. Everyone wants the old window time system to return to the game, however, the way I see it, everytime a faction takes town, it's locked for, let's say 4 hours, during which the town cannot be taken over by a different gang. The reason for this is to mitigate the timezone difference and in the end have more players participate in TC at any given time of the day.
Also, every faction member should get a warning if an enemy gang enter a town under their management(if they meet the influence requirement, that is) with a group of five or more people(that's the minimum to start the countdown, no?).
And please, for God's sake, do something with this darn mass fast relogging issue. Jovanka had a pretty good idea with a weakened state after logging into the game, though it could be easily bypassed with additional clients, however, what if...
Team A controls the town,
Team B comes over, starts the countdown
Team A and C are ready to enter the town from the world map
Team A comes in with full force, town is locked for the rest of the countdown or until either of the forces emerges victorious, whichever comes first
Team C misses the opportunity to enter the town, can't participate in the battle
Team B wins over Team A, successfully wiping out the majority of the force(less than five men survive)
Team C, seeing as the town is unlocked, joins the fight and locks it once more
Team C wins the fight and starts their own countdown
Even though it might look complicated, it's not and does not require much work on your part.
PS: Give mercs some kind of three, five second cooldown on attacking upon entering any map, it'll work miracles.
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I'm guessing thats a picture, which is blocked at work :P
Anyway, anymore thoughts on this before I go and pester scripters to do stuff?
One thing: once gang has the town, does it get rewards from the time it doesn't spend inside the town?
In previous wipe this was an issue for following reasons:
When a gang gets rewards in tc locker when it's not actually present it encourages them to simply leave the town after capture because there's no reason to stay inside. Rewards keep coming anyway.
In addition it was annoying when enemy captured when you weren't around so you lost the rewards from entire night.
If locker doesn't generate rewards when nobody is inside it's better for everyone. Gangs don't get annoyed for losing rewards from off-timezone captures but they don't either get free stuff from doing nothing.
Yes. Everyone wants the old window time system to return to the game, however, the way I see it, everytime a faction takes town, it's locked for, let's say 4 hours, during which the town cannot be taken over by a different gang. The reason for this is to mitigate the timezone difference and in the end have more players participate in TC at any given time of the day.
No locking please. Sometimes we have situations where a gang simply cannot gather its troops in 15 mins and stop the capture even though they could smash them no problem. So if a gang manages to do fast cap in 15 mins, they get the town for 4 hours. Not good. Players must be able to capture when they want if they have the troops.
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how about this.
use old 15 min timer to take town.
influence only goes up for capturers of town. influence only affects the rewards. 1 influ every 10 min or repeat able quest. max influ of 50. 25 influ = 1.5 times normal 50 is double. influ is reset when a faction loses town. max 15 millita all with mid tier gear no useless spear and unarmed millita. millita help owers of town no matter what unless they are attack npcs then millita attacks them.
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@Pedopander - Massive, backstabbing, multifaction skirmishes I enjoy the most, because even a weak gang can turn the tide of the battle.
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One thing: once gang has the town, does it get rewards from the time it doesn't spend inside the town?
In previous wipe this was an issue for following reasons:
When a gang gets rewards in tc locker when it's not actually present it encourages them to simply leave the town after capture because there's no reason to stay inside. Rewards keep coming anyway.
In addition it was annoying when enemy captured when you weren't around so you lost the rewards from entire night.
I hardly call that an issue and i doubt there is any other efficient solution without changing the reward gain to some kind of ultimate grind where you just do some scripted objectives to repair generators forever and what not , i don't believe that would be better forcing players to work more than needed , like being ready to defend the city all day long isn't enough and winning countless battles to hold the city throughout the day ? I wouldn't call that no effort , of course if nobody competes for the city and then raises concerns about rewards from TC being to easy to obtain for someone , that's a different story witch is common for many factions and players who raises those concerns.
So to get rewards from TC locker now , you need someone in the city that leads to some afk characters in dark corners of the map. What's the point ? I think receiving reward from TC locker is acceptable when not being present , for starters reduce the amount of reward received when not being present , might as well implement those objectives or some kind of activities that increases locker reward , but i certainly don't want to see it as the only option.
Both is the answer. If someone wants to do activities in city , they will be rewarded better because they actually do something more than awaiting enemies to arrive but at the same time they receive the TC reward for not being present either but at a much reduced rate , this makes sense.
bahh this post is kinda messy , hope you understand the point.
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So to get rewards from TC locker now , you need someone in the city that leads to some afk characters in dark corners of the map. What's the point ? I think receiving reward from TC locker is acceptable when not being present , for starters reduce the amount of reward received when not being present , might as well implement those objectives or some kind of activities that increases locker reward , but i certainly don't want to see it as the only option.
This is plausible. In addition the rewards must not increase over time. It's just matter of time before some Brazilians capture the town which you held for three weeks for massive rewards.
Rewards from not being present should be pretty minor. It's free stuff. You risked 15 mins for it. If you want more, risk more.
The real stuff should be received from activities and being present in town. And by real stuff I mean real stuff: avengers, gatling lasers, BAs, top drugs. Towns need to be the places to be at, not some distant encounters and caves in the middle of nowhere. These activities need to put players in bad position and vulnerable to attacks but the rewards should also reflect that.
We grind already so much. Grinding in towns is just better because there is a chance to meet players. You can't grind players.
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You'd be getting rewards in exactly the same way as last season.
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You'd be getting rewards in exactly the same way as last season.
You believe it's for the best? Cap town, go to worldmap. Don't enter unless theres enemy or if you want to empty the tc box. Keep it for 5 weeks in row and get massive rewards due to increasing ratio. But only because nobody bothered to cap the town.
It's not that bad, but it'd be good for gameplay if we could do stuff in towns to increase the rewards. I'd rather grind inside my own town than somewhere invisible.
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Yes, you'd have the current influence mechanism there to increase the rewards (which could be expanded upon later, but I really think keeping it to the bare minimum atm, to get something ready, is advisable)
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Yeah, I've confused the issue by calling them windows. I mean the 15 minute counter to take the town, like last season, not the old windows system.
This is actually pretty awesome. Set hours for given towns only led to bipolar politics for the entire wasteland - you could either join one of the two big alliances (it's natural - there might be some brief period of chaos, eventually a single group would dominate those fights, people would ally to overthrow them, the former "number 1s" would in turn seek their own allies to balance things out and with all the established personal sympathies and antipathies dating a few sessions back we'd end up with the same old NA vs DA ww1-like stalemate) or you couldn't participate at all - please don't ever bring that evil thing back, it was nothing more than a ridiculous, gamey (as in unrealistic and breaking immersion) setup for set piece battles which lacked any meaning and required a lot of really boring, logistical stuff. If you ever think it was any good just remember how thoroughly burned out and sick of it a lot of people were back in the day after just two months of that bullshit and how many have actually stopped playing the game because of everything preset TC windows entailed. Remember how, at times, we couldn't get any action at all for days, even weeks because one of the sides was beaten so badly that it just didn't feel like fighting until their opponents got tired of waiting for nothing and their numbers started dwindling during the TC window. Ultimately, with that setup the only way to "defeat" your enemy was to bore him to death.
The influence based mechanic that requires a lot of camping turned out to be pretty bad as well, because it discriminates against small gangs and also requires a lot of boring, timesink-based stuff (hence the AFK playstyle). The 15 minute dynamic counter mechanic, which is actually the only one that really worked and didn't make most of the people involved rage (aside from the issue of bluesuit captures, which has long been solved), is going to provide battles unpredictable enough to discourage large alliances (nobody's going to keep 30 people fighting for one side online for hours, others could just wait'em out anyway) while providing greater rewards and opportunities for people who actually name their hometown and keep enforcing their rule inside (I hope they get to have some militia after a while, but still can be removed pretty quick with a concentrated effort of a 5-10 person gang even at +60 influence). Actually, I think it's the first TC rework in a long time that doesn't really make me raise my brow and holds some real promise. Just don't allow any faction to rule the town for hours by virtue of militia and influence alone and you're golden, if the controlling gang is not in or ready to go in at ~30 minutes' notice it should be easy to dislodge to keep this TC thingie rolling and fun instead of it being a chore one must do at a predetermined snail's pace to get some action.
Also - does nobody remember Draconis and his Cathedral-based RPG project anymore? It got raided in the end, but it worked better than anything of that sort I've ever seen in a TC-enabled town. Take that, you anti-PvP "we want our own town with arbitrarily invincible militia where we arbitrarily make the rules" land grabbers :>
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Complete PvP promoting system:
Based on current one - rework+fixes.
1. Max influence capped at specific levels.
-Redding and BH = 70
-Den and Gecko = 40
-Klamath and Modoc = 20
(this will provide a chance for smaller gangs to take some cities)
2. Gaining 1 influence point decrease automaticly other gangs influence by 1 point.
So when ur faction has 70/40/20 all other factions has 0.
3. Message about faction X getting influence in city Y appears for all (any)factions members on server.
4. No TC zones except buildings - they are excluded from gaining influence.
5. The pace of influence gaining depends from equipment and numbers, tier 3 and level cap needed to be counted.
6. Loot in lockers is generating for each 30 minutes of holding town. Faction members presence not needed. The longer u have city the better rewards ur getting.
7. After taking city u can enforce laws by militia:
- no sneak available
- no weapon in hand available
- kill militia killers on sight (they are attacked automaticly by militia if they enter back to city after killing militia)
8. Militia number cutted to 10, only Sg/Ew/Bg militia.
9. No possibility to add mercs to militia.
10. Faction can start getting influence only if there is no militia in town (so mostly it means dead)
I think this solution is quiet good, i just disagree with :
- Only 10 militia (15 sounds better)
- Influence cap for city, idea is rly good but i think yours are too low
Redding and BH = 150
Den and Gecko = 100
Klamath and Modoc = 50
Small gang have chance to take city but largest can install some kind of RP or shit like that
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I disagree to just turn the whole thing back to pre-wipe state without even 1 adjustment to the current system... I mean, i am sure you guys didint think that the new system will work without any balancing? Some simple quick fixes were proposed by many, like speeding up influence lost by other gangs when first gang gains, lower influence cap, make big part of whole influence rised by other means then just standing in town.
I think the reward system was great improvement, and bringing it back to pre wipe will be just a step back. I suggest to keep the reward system where you need to be in town to gain anything, and i also suggest to count minutes in town not just XX:59. Right now in Den it looks like this: SoT strike town every end of hour, like XX:50 to XX:59. So, simply make the reward equal to amount of minutes in town or something :)
Oh, and influence will still be broken if you guys dont consider the first part of this post, the problem is only partly in its cap, if the influence was lost faster for other gangs (it drops VERY slowely now) then people would barely reach the cap ;P
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when tc will be changed? to pure pvp not pve or pvquest?
give us back old system with some improvments...this syst ruined pvp
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I have to disagree, this season favours small, fast skirmishes and its FUN
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And, maybe ALL players should know if a faction is gaining influence in a specific town (enabled / disambled by same key as tc key now), right now there is often problem of finding opponents when you look for some fight. This could be delayed by 5-10 minutes, so it appears only after the 5-10 minutes of constant gaining (no delay for showing info for faction currently in charge of the town).
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I like idea of old 10-15min windows and afterparty That u can gain infl,
No mercs in milita, max militia 10, infl cap 60, old reward system,
After max infl cap u can make rules,