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[Solar]

Well, in the hopes of nailing down a solid concept of TC, I thought I'd try this. Do not troll in here thanks.

This needs to have all the details ironed out ahead of time, because (unsurprisingly) people are starting to get sick of remaking this

Anyway, to quote myself from my concept thread:

OK, TC.

First things first, there should be some way to display the current influence of the top 3 gangs competing for the town.

The equipment checks can be eased quite a bit too, especially for armours. LA I and II should be fine to use.

Scenarios.

Instead of having Influence just ticking up for standing around in the town, this should be some randomly assigned task. Each one should have a time window they have to defend and success means the town is locked for other tasks for some time. Ball park figures of task takes 15 mins, lock out is 30 mins or 20 mins/40mins.

- Defend the town for X minutes. This is essentially just standing around in the town (!) but it gives a server message, so gangs know they have to come and stop them. This should discount all buildings

- Defend building X. This is basically the inverse of the above, you must keep X number of players alive and inside the building

- Repair Generator. You must bring whatever materials and use them to repair something - obvious example is the reactor in gecko. There could be multiple terminals to use, when you repair them you give a server message saying

*1/5 terminals being repaired in Gecko in X minutes*
*2/5 terminals being repaired in Gecko in X minutes*

The X minutes would depend on the char used to start the repair.

- Stock local brahmin supplies/slave supplies - obviously Modoc/Den. Bring X number of cows, keep Y number of cows alive for 15 / 20 minutes.

- Repell Raider attack. Raiders will be spawned and attack citizens over the next 15/20 minutes. If you can stop more than X citizens dying you complete your mission.

- Defend Caravan while it unloads (natural finish point for any real caravans we have in the future)

- Others?

Influence Effect

If you complete these successfully you get the loot (which doesnt depend on influence) and you get influence points.


Those gangs who achieve over X influence points in a city can then compete to "control" the town every 26 hours. The winner gets bonus loot (which heavily depends on their amount of influence.

They are also allowed to set the rules the town lives by. Most obvious thing is the rules for the Militia, but anything else you can think of too.


Militia.

These need to be limited to something like a max of 10 at one time. Don't think they need to cost anything either. Mercs should not be added to militia. They should disappear if a scenario is started, or their time lapses (max 30 mins each time).

Controlling gang can deploy Militia at any time there is not a scenario on going. They don't act like the controlling gangs mercs, they act like guards, enforcing the towns rules. They will attack even controlling gang memebers.

Anyone who fires should then not be protected by the guards, so gangs can defend themselves by returning fire.

Every 3 minutes the militia are out defending the town should give the controlling faction 1 influence. Up to a maximum of 10.

An enemy gang killing militia should gain 1 influence for every Miliitaman they kill.


Opinions?

[Perteks]

About militia.
I think its should be pay like mercenaries.
Reduced number to max 10 is cool but remember to dont give them shitload hp.


About influence i don't have any great idea lets somebody other talk about it

[naossano]

I prefer more militian, but spread all over the town, not focused on town center.

[falloutdude]

About militia.
I think its should be pay like mercenaries.
Reduced number to max 10 is cool but remember to dont give them shitload hp.

maybe you should look up what millita is before suggesting to pay them... millita dont fight for pay they fight for there country , land what ever it is. if they get anything from it (ie train,money,items) its because thats there spoils from the people they killed.
anyway 10 millita is bad idea because a faction can allready killed 20 milita with ease even when they have high hp.

about influence, solar i really think this whole thing should be removed. it just makes people who want to tc waste there time afking in town for hours. please just remove this and lets get back to old tc with longer timer.

[Perteks]

Ofc only bigger gangs can kill 20 militia when gather 30 people in one rush but 20 vs 20 militia will win for sure and only vs militia not milita+players

[Solar]

anyway 10 millita is bad idea because a faction can allready killed 20 milita with ease even when they have high hp.

Militia would be used to guard the town, a gang should be able to clear them out easily, but they should be able to stop random PKing.

about influence, solar i really think this whole thing should be removed. it just makes people who want to tc waste there time afking in town for hours. please just remove this and lets get back to old tc with longer timer.

If everyone could read the post, before commenting, that would be best.

[Glave]

Here's my three cents:

-Sneak disabled or action points penalty right after turning it off(after all "sneakers" are supposed to fulfill the role of scouts, not pose a great threat to separated players) - This will allow for more strategic character placement without the worry of losing forces due to not camping a narrow zone/building.

-Militia should be divided into two types:

*a small group, 5 men or less dedicated to defense of gang members from any threats such gun shots, stealing, drugging etc. in a manner similiar to the current militia. These guys would be purchased for caps with the option to arm them with a weapon of player's choice, single fire weapons only to prevent griefing.

*a bigger group, proper militia. Up to twenty guards to be deployed at any given time enforcing the rules of any major cities, trained in a fashion similiar to Jagged Alliance 2. Characters spending time in the city would generate militia over time, naturally the more characters, the quicker the militia would grow in number. Speech should also influence militia growth in some way, perhaps boosting every member's militia training multiplayer by some value. These militia would be exceptionally strong and should dissapear if some objectives are met and/or durimg certain time windows over the course of the whole day so the attacking factions have a way to avoid fighting several armed NPCs.

-Influence should not determine which faction has control of the town, instead, the old town takeover system would be used. However, once a faction reaches a certain amount of influence the city becomes harder to weaken, perhaps ridding the town of quests that remove militia.

-Absolutely no mercenaries entering from the world map. Should a character attempt to enter a contested area with mercenaries, he/she will receive a message that he/she is not welcome here. Characters with mercenaries already inside a zone prior to it being regarded as contested, however, should not be penalized in any way; attacking factions will be put in an advantage here, meaning more fights.

I'll add more once I remember some ideas.

[T-888]

- Stock local brahmin supplies/slave supplies - obviously Modoc/Den. Bring X number of cows, keep Y number of cows alive for 15 / 20 minutes.

this should be some randomly assigned task

Let me guess this will provide more influence than just standing in town or defending building x right ? If so then that's just ridiculous , you again force players to do things they completely do not want to do.

Randomly assigned task , * 15 guys with the most high tech equipment ready to kick some ass and doesn't want to do anything else will go shovel shit * sorry solar i just couldn't resist. But get the point then at least make shoveling shit or guarding brahmins a little bit rewarding , but players can always choose to stand in towns or defend x building. That's what PvP organized factions will want to do , not guard brahmins :/

Anyone who fires should then not be protected by the guards, so gangs can defend themselves by returning fire.

This makes militia impossible to use as a defense in team fights as all your team won't be shot at once , so if a faction gets attacked only those who get shot can defend , unpractical in real situations. That won't work.

Those gangs who achieve over X influence points in a city can then compete to "control" the town every 26 hours. The winner gets bonus loot (which heavily depends on their amount of influence.

Over x influence , once per 26 hours  , " compete " for town control. What ? I can't imagine how is that gonna work at all as work in practice ? If it is like you can try to seize the control of town only once per 26 hours , then that's shit , rapid exchange of cities between factions encourages PvP ( that was the main thing why last season there was much PvP even more PvP when community thought that 2238 was dead than now ).Gang X takes town , gang X goes AFK for 30 minutes , gang Y takes town , GANG X waits 26 hours

..... more dots for you. It should be like that , you aren't around to defend the city , then the city is just takeable like it was last season. Those who will want to take the city will take it in night no matter what cooldown on it.

An enemy gang killing militia should gain 1 influence for every Miliitaman they kill

I already see suicide smg bursters.

One thing mentioned thousand times but i don't read anything about it influence cap/limit. Do you want to make the same mistake ?

[Solar]

Let me guess this will provide more influence than just standing in town or defending building x right ? If so then that's just ridiculous , you again force players to do things they completely do not want to do.

No, you would have one of these randomly assigned - then you would have to achieve what you were asked to do in the time you were given. Each option would be approximately the same.

Over x influence , once per 26 hours  , " compete " for town control. What ? I can't imagine how is that gonna work at all as work in practice ? If it is like you can try to seize the control of town only once per 26 hours , then that's shit , rapid exchange of cities between factions encourages PvP ( that was the main thing why last season there was much PvP even more PvP when community thought that 2238 was dead than now ).Gang X takes town , gang X goes AFK for 30 minutes , gang Y takes town , GANG X waits 26 hours

..... more dots for you. It should be like that , you aren't around to defend the city , then the city is just takeable like it was last season. Those who will want to take the city will take it in night no matter what cooldown on it.

I think you've misunderstood.

There is the rapid exchange element, which are the randomly assigned tasks.

Then there is the 26 hourly major fight, in which only those who had collected enough influence could participate. This would be for extra loot and to unlock all the rule setting options that current influence would allow.

Lets take for Modoc for an example. Lets also presume that tasks take 20 minutes, with a 40 minute lock out (mostly for the reason that it makes it easier to explain )

Hour 1, Gang A takes on an event, they succeed and the rest of the hour is locked out for other gangs - they get loot and 10 influence.
Hour 2, Gang B takes on an event, they succeed and the rest of the hour is locked out for other gangs - they get loot and 10 influence.
Hour 3, Gang C takes on an event, they succeed and the rest of the hour is locked out for other gangs - they get loot and 10 influence.
Hour 4, Gang D takes on an event, they succeed and the rest of the hour is locked out for other gangs - they get loot and 10 influence.
Hour 5, Gang A takes on an event, they succeed and the rest of the hour is locked out for other gangs - they get loot and 10 influence.
Hour 6, Gang B takes on an event, they succeed and the rest of the hour is locked out for other gangs - they get loot and 10 influence.
Hour 7, Gang C takes on an event, they succeed and the rest of the hour is locked out for other gangs - they get loot and 10 influence.
Hour 8 - 25, Gang A takes on an event, they succeed and the rest of the hour is locked out for other gangs - they get loot and 190 influence.

Now, of course gangs will be stopping each other succeeding in these events all the time, but its easier to explain if they always succeed.

Gang A has 200 influence
Gang B has 20 influence
Gang C has 20 influence
Gang D has 10 influence

Hour 26 rolls around, lets say that 20 influence is the minimum required - so Gangs A, B and C can qualify to "take" the city. I imagine this would be similar to last seasons king of the hill window.

If Gang A wins they would get lots more than Gangs B and C because they have the most influence, but Gang B and C can still take it, but get lower rewards.

Whichever one of those gangs win then also get to set the rules, deploy militia as town guards if they want (which defend players, not act as gang bodyguards) and other things (that are yet to be thought up).

Influence is then all reset and the day starts again from zero, with another 26 hours to undertake events (which all involve PvP action) and at the end of that the qualifying gangs get to compete again.


EDIT: It would actually be like last season, but minus the militia defending player gangs, but instead of always king of the hill battles you would have different objectives to keep it fresher.

Then on top of that you promote one hour to give you various options over 26 hours - deploying guards/not deploying guards being the main one - sort of like a TC Champions league.

[Rascal]

Why ur trying to invent the wheel again ?
Why dont u want just FIX/IMPROVE current system instead trying to bring totally new (which means after u gona implement it there is gona be again zilion of new bugs and exploits).

1."randomly assigned task"

So I cant choose scenario? Its given in advance, I can take it or drop it ? Its so STUPID. We are PvP faction, we are totally not interested in some bullshit bramin sheparding, NPC(raiders) killing, slaves catching ftw.... TC was always about gangs and PvP not some ridiculous "lousy-RP-like" tasks. At least give opportunity to start chosen scenario in city major/sherif. Then all faction just gona choose Pvp scenario with timer dzizzz and that's gona boost PvP on TC.

"- Defend the town for X minutes. This is essentially just standing around in the town (!) but it gives a server message, so gangs know they have to come and stop them. This should discount all buildings

This is ok.

- Defend building X. This is basically the inverse of the above, you must keep X number of players alive and inside the building"

This is totally crap - add to that this:

"Mercs should disappear if a scenario is started, or their time lapses (max 30 mins each time)."

U have situation where gang is camping some building like casino or sherif in redding (take bazookas/lazors/some gatlings avengers) and they are unbeatable without throwing inside some mercs as a meatshield. Its simply suicide to try storm such well-organised building camping. The only way to break it is to spamm some mercs to spend enemies AP and then try to storm them......

"- Repair Generator. You must bring whatever materials and use them to repair something - obvious example is the reactor in gecko. There could be multiple terminals to use, when you repair them you give a server message saying
- Stock local brahmin supplies/slave supplies - obviously Modoc/Den. Bring X number of cows, keep Y number of cows alive for 15 / 20 minutes.
- Defend Caravan while it unloads (natural finish point for any real caravans we have in the future)"

Why u force PvP players to do smth that we dont want to do ? We wanna fight not doing some single player bullshit, really.

"- Repell Raider attack. Raiders will be spawned and attack citizens over the next 15/20 minutes. If you can stop more than X citizens dying you complete your mission."

U really think we want PvE ? And btw its very stupid from tactical point of view, ur swarmed by some NPCs and ur very vulnerable to any enemy attack then.... Its just perfect time to attack...


Militia:

"Don't think they need to cost anything either."

No, they should. Loosing militia should cost defending faction some caps, "buying militia" is a great strategic factor, 4 example putting ur forces in city that way u can prevent enemy faction to buy militia, buying them to set a trap, also caps are now very "valuable" so loosing militia should mean smth to controling faction.

"[Mercs]They should disappear if a scenario is started, or their time lapses (max 30 mins each time)."

Nonesense already explained above but also mercs are now nerfed hard(commands/delay for taking weapons), costs money and its very hard to get money so loosing them hurts, but still they give opportunity to close 4 example running away to antoher grid players (cheers RunawaySoldiers), to storm some heavly camped well defended building. Mutants spamming days are over - multilevel nerf.

"They don't act like the controlling gangs mercs, they act like guards, enforcing the towns rules. They will attack even controlling gang memebers. "

[/i] This is the biggest fail of all time, so what I cant kill enemies scouts, sneakers couse my own militia gona attack me ? Ur trying to make from TC towns some new NCR trolling heaven ? jesus.. man. I can agree on that militia dont attack just everyone I will attack. But it should protect faction members from any attacks and also do not attack them if theyr attacking someone omg its just obvious.

"An enemy gang killing militia should gain 1 influence for every Miliitaman they kill."

[/i] Another great fail... so i can just take city by non stop killing militia 1 by one by some SD sneaker. Just epic idea...

Just STOP all that.
Make this:

Complete PvP promoting system:
Based on current one - rework+fixes.

1. Max influence capped at specific levels.
-Redding and BH = 70
-Den and Gecko = 40
-Klamath and Modoc = 20
(this will provide a chance for smaller gangs to take some cities)
2. Gaining 1 influence point decrease automaticly other gangs influence by 1 point.
    So when ur faction has 70/40/20 all other factions has 0.
3. Message about faction X getting influence in city Y appears for all (any)factions members on server.
4. No TC zones except buildings - they are excluded from gaining influence.
5. The pace of influence gaining depends from equipment and numbers, tier 3 and level cap needed to be counted.
6. Loot in lockers is generating for each 30 minutes of holding town. Faction members presence not needed. The longer u have city the better rewards ur getting.
7. After taking city u can enforce laws by militia:
- no sneak available
- no weapon in hand available
- kill militia killers on sight (they are attacked automaticly by militia if they enter back to city after killing militia)
8. Militia number cutted to 10, only Sg/Ew/Bg militia.
9. No possibility to add mercs to militia.
10. Faction can start getting influence only if there is no militia in town (so mostly it means dead)


 

[T-888]

Most of this sounds solid and i'm looking forward for this all , the only thing i don't like is the random assignment why random ? Like we don't have enough randomness in the game , why add more ... seriously please give us the option to choose or at least choose but those assignments that are more complicated than just sitting around doing nothing could be rewarded slightly more. Random is bad.

Hour 1, Gang A takes on an event, they succeed and the rest of the hour is locked out for other gangs - they get loot and 10 influence.
Hour 2, Gang B takes on an event, they succeed and the rest of the hour is locked out for other gangs - they get loot and 10 influence.
etc.etc.

Influence is then all reset and the day starts again from zero, with another 26 hours to undertake events (which all involve PvP action) and at the end of that the qualifying gangs get to compete again.

So when day resets , there will be some period of time when it will not be possible to take the city at all or you will still be able to take it in any time and still get rewards and everything else based on influence ? End of the day ... that's what i'm wondering about.

1. Max influence capped at specific levels.
-Redding and BH = 70
-Den and Gecko = 40
-Klamath and Modoc = 20
(this will provide a chance for smaller gangs to take some cities)
2. Gaining 1 influence point decrease automaticly other gangs influence by 1 point.
    So when ur faction has 70/40/20 all other factions has 0.
3. Message about faction X getting influence in city Y appears for all (any)factions members on server.
4. No TC zones except buildings - they are excluded from gaining influence.
5. The pace of influence gaining depends from equipment and numbers, tier 3 and level cap needed to be counted.
6. Loot in lockers is generating for each 30 minutes of holding town. Faction members presence not needed. The longer u have city the better rewards ur getting.
7. After taking city u can enforce laws by militia:
- no sneak available
- no weapon in hand available
- kill militia killers on sight (they are attacked automaticly by militia if they enter back to city after killing militia)
8. Militia number cutted to 10, only Sg/Ew/Bg militia.
9. No possibility to add mercs to militia.

I support and approve this.

[A concerned wastelander]

Militia would be used to guard the town, a gang should be able to clear them out easily, but they should be able to stop random PKing.

If everyone could read the post, before commenting, that would be best.

20 militia is too much, 10 seems too little, maybe 15 would be perfect?

[T-888]

10 militia seems fine , less npc's to battle equals better gameplay.

No, they should. Loosing militia should cost defending faction some caps, "buying militia" is a great strategic factor, 4 example putting ur forces in city that way u can prevent enemy faction to buy militia, buying them to set a trap, also caps are now very "valuable" so loosing militia should mean smth to controling faction.

 Nonesense already explained above but also mercs are now nerfed hard(commands/delay for taking weapons), costs money and its very hard to get money so loosing them hurts, but still they give opportunity to close 4 example running away to antoher grid players (cheers RunawaySoldiers), to storm some heavly camped well defended building. Mutants spamming days are over - multilevel nerf.

Oh yeah this makes a lot of sense too.

This is the biggest fail of all time, so what I cant kill enemies scouts, sneakers couse my own militia gona attack me ? ........

This. Random guys just goes into BH , starts logging off characters in some building for a strategic key point to use against us later and i can't do anything , because i have militia in the city. Kinda doesn't make sense for me ....

[John Porno]

@rascal

perfect. that's all we need for a simple and nice pvp setup.

@solar

the fonline 2238 community does not want rp-tc. No matter what kind of stuff would be introduced, it would always boil down to 2 people doing the clicking while everyone else is youtubing until the enemy arrives. And then you have the usual fight and noone cares if any caravans or cows get caught in the crossfire.

if you want to introduce pvp with some more interaction then go for it. After a decent tc system is set up. In order to set up a working tc system with these kind of gimmicks there is a lot more work to be done and honestly, I don't see it happening in 2238. I dont blame anyone for it and dont expect anything, but this is how it is. Half assed systems will be abused and exploited and it's better to save the devs some time by not even trying anything in that direction.

[T-888]

the fonline 2238 community does not want rp-tc. No matter what kind of stuff would be introduced, it would always boil down to 2 people doing the clicking while everyone else is youtubing until the enemy arrives. And then you have the usual fight and noone cares if any caravans or cows get caught in the crossfire.

I couldn't say it better.

The larger part of 2238 community are just pure fighters bad or good doesn't matter , but don't force us to do some fake RP. As i stated before , give us a choice , those who will want to guard brahmins and repair generators will do that IF their interested in that and everyone else will take what suits them better and everyone is happy.