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[Shangalar]

Not at all, Bigguns are vital part of the gameplay. Just try to avoid everyone to use it.

[Nice_Boat]

Not at all, Bigguns are vital part of the gameplay. Just try to avoid everyone to use it.

The thing is it's more of a fashion/personnal preference than anything else. A few weeks ago everyone was running with sniper rifles/laser rifles/plasma rifles/rocket launchers. Hell, you could see a lot of those builds in the Necropolis event. What balance changes occured? Basically, none. And suddenly a group of people is all like "let's nerf Big Guns cause they're too strong"... I mean, wtf? Where were those people before? Most of the ideas presented here are ridiculous, and I didn't see a single objective argument for a balance change - it's all opinions and no facts. Curiously enough, the first dude to say something constructive and true to the reality of the game was Kilgore, whom you cared to call a retard. What the hell, people, just what the hell.


EDIT:
How come all those attempts at "rebalancing" the game are basically partisan actions of individuals distraught by something that happened to them in game? Get a scientific approach if you want to tinkle with the endgame PvP. Record at least 10 different engagements in varying cities, determine how range and wounds (ie. crippled eyes or hands) influence damage output of the most successful players and count how much damage each typical build is able to dish out. Then divide the damage by the ammount of resources (would be best to use time units) required to craft/aquire a supply of ammo necessary for such an engagement to determine how cost-effective a given weapon is. That would be the correct way of doing it, not some bullshit posts like "minigun strong, lasrifle weak" based on foundations that are questionable to say the least.

[Shangalar]

Now that everyone has enough ressources to have full BG team, we can see the problems of these weapons. Not because you are using it. Because everyone is using it. Anyway, that's a suggestion. You're against ? No problem, just stop to defend your position just because you cant play anything else.

Edit : Oh yeah. So, because you feel that you spent enough hours on no-life crafting, you have the right to have the best weapons all time ? We dont have all the same time to play, but we dont want to be penalized because of that.

[Nice_Boat]

Now that everyone has enough ressources to have full BG team, we can see the problems of these weapons. Not because you are using it. Because everyone is using it. Anyway, that's a suggestion. You're against ? No problem, just stop to defend your position just because you cant play anything else.

My powerbuild is an EW sniper. And we were talking about the game, not me, yes? The fact that everyone is making a full BG team does not necessarily mean BG teams are the only way to go, it means that everyone is making a full BG team. You need more evidence to sustain an argument like that. Learn some logics. And no, saying your oponent in the discussion is a retard or doesn't know how to play anything else is not valid evidence. It's simply you being rude for no reason.

Edit : Oh yeah. So, because you feel that you spent enough hours on no-life crafting, you have the right to have the best weapons all time ? We dont have all the same time to play, but we dont want to be penalized because of that.

Actually, that's the way this game works. Just think what's at the different side of this spectrum - Gauss Rifles for everyone for free, instant 21 lvls? With an approach like that you might try playing Fallout Tactics instead. It's all easy and effortless there. Besides if you think that crafting takes too much time, maybe you should try blaming crafting system instead of the weapons.

[Shangalar]

When I said you, I meant BBS. Because, of course, it's about that. Your lyric way of talking is just showing me one thing : you and your mates are happy with your minigun squad, and dont wanna balanced diversity at all. Bigguns are more powerful than anything else and need to be rebalanced, only an interested can say the contrary. Anyway, the devs will make the difference.

[Cryofluid]

"Energy weapons seem OK"  - heh not exacly, try play pvp with LASER sniper vs metalarmors

in my option there is no balance in pvp
biggunz>>smallgunz>energy

Absolutely true, against metal armor, the nerf of EW is too strong for now imho (even MSH gave up his sniper energy for light support weapon).

[Nice_Boat]

When I said you, I meant BBS. Because, of course, it's about that. Your lyric way of talking is just showing me one thing : you and your mates are happy with your minigun squad, and dont wanna balanced diversity at all. Bigguns are more powerful than anything else and need to be rebalanced, only an interested can say the contrary. Anyway, the devs will make the difference.

And here we go again. I told you, I want MATHEMATICAL EVIDENCE for every change to the weapon specs. It's the REASONABLE thing to do and it's going to improve the balance of the game instead of rocking it back and forth. One would have to be batshit insane to question such approach - or have a personnal agenda.

You, on the other hand, are mumbling about BBS, spouting your SUBJECTIVE opinions like you have a monopoly for truth and generally providing evidence for my statement that this thread is about muddy faction politics instead of improving the game. Because really, if you nerf BGs, EWs and SGs are coming out on top - and we're good with both, so sorry no bonus.

[Shangalar]

Not at all, I just think that Big guns are overpowered and need some negative point. Atm, you can do everything with bigguns.. Far fights, close fights, splash damage... With the future bozar you may be able to snipe in the eyes too... (need to be seen)

We have enough of biggunners to feel these disproportions. We purpose to think about some way to make it more fair, and who comes to say its bullshit ? BBS ! So, I automatically think about the reasons...

I would be happy to be wrong. So now, let's head back to the discussion. And if its too early to talk about, lets wait some more days/weeks and see how the pvp is going.

[Nice_Boat]

Not at all, I just think that Big guns are overpowered and need some negative point. Atm, you can do everything with bigguns.. Far fights, close fights, splash damage... With the future bozar you may be able to snipe in the eyes too... (need to be seen)

We have enough of biggunners to feel these disproportions. We purpose to think about some way to make it more fair, and who comes to say its bullshit ? BBS ! So, I automatically think about the reasons...

If you're so right why are you so scared of providing actual, irrefutable evidence for your claims? Why "we purpose to think", "we feel the disproportions" instead of proof? Because what you're saying right now is "NA is always right, BBS is always wrong" and "we want it fair" - whatever that last claim might mean when you say it.

[Shangalar]

I didnt make a study about BG. I just play and see.

[Izual]

Why do all threads have to turn into a DA/NA war ?

[Aricvomit]

eh hopefull the wipe takes care of the whole NA/DA thing. im not a member of either group and wouldnt want to be. they got more drama than a 12 o'clock soap opera everyday of the week.

[Nice_Boat]

Why do all threads have to turn into a DA/NA war ?

There's an answer for ya:

*waiting for BBS flaming*

... if people didn't make such dumb remarks everywhere and sticked to the topic the forums would be much healthier.

[Bantz]

So, in the end it all comes down to dirty little faction politics instead of real concern for gameplay mechanics

Or that. Stick to the topic please, it was actully quite interesting one before the flame emerged.

[Iceforce]

Here's something on topic:

With Avenger Minigun (assumed 2xBRD taken) at point blank (assumed that every bullet hits) vs Brotherhood Armor (with 2xToughness Taken) you will deal:
72-108 (90 Average) DMG for 6 AP(assumed that FS was taken).

With HKP90C in the same scenario:
60-84 (72 Average) DMG for 4 AP

So if no crits occur and you have at least 216 HP HKP90C will beat Avenger...

But I agree that in general BG are a little overpowered...