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[Michaelh139]

Then where are our perks?

[Solar]

Existing only in the future, currently.

[vedaras]

This is a different matter. Miniguns currently have perks that suit them very well whereas Shotguns don't really.

The weapons themselves are fine and don't need touching.

even from max distance of avenger you can do 60 damage something to ba, and with jackhammer from any bigger distance you do exactly 0 damage, thats why it needs boost :>

[Solar]

I just created a CA merc, shot him with a Jackhammer for 164, 139, 109, 153, 162, 270, 110, 117, 223 and 151. Average of 159.8.

Then with an Avenger 173, 239, 55, 127, 68, 131, 123, 131, 84, 180. Average of 131.1.

Highly unscientific and I'd actually expect the Avenger to do ~9% extra damage over time, but Jackhammers are not weak.

[Michaelh139]

What distance, skill %, etc.... 

[Solar]

Distance was greater than 1 hex and skill was 300% in both. My guy has no perks other than Awareness and Silent Running.

[Glave]

Distance was greater than 1 hex and skill was 300% in both. My guy has no perks other than Awareness and Silent Running.

Considering there's a perk giving 2 extra damage per bullet times two, for a total of 40 bullets fired you get 80 more damage, while with the pancor you gain 10. Take that into account when calculating next time, because it's the same if I'd compare a sniper rifle to a plasma rifle without better critical, for a LK1 character. We're talking about REAL numbers.

[Solar]

Considering there's a perk giving 2 extra damage per bullet times two, for a total of 40 bullets fired you get 80 more damage, while with the pancor you gain 10. Take that into account when calculating next time, because it's the same if I'd compare a sniper rifle to a plasma rifle without better critical, for a LK1 character. We're talking about REAL numbers.

*Points at this very thing being discussed a few posts ago*

Though its actually more like a difference of +24.7 damage to +6 damage vs CA.

[vedaras]

I just created a CA merc, shot him with a Jackhammer for 164, 139, 109, 153, 162, 270, 110, 117, 223 and 151. Average of 159.8.

Then with an Avenger 173, 239, 55, 127, 68, 131, 123, 131, 84, 180. Average of 131.1.

Highly unscientific and I'd actually expect the Avenger to do ~9% extra damage over time, but Jackhammers are not weak.

no one is saying jackhammer is weak, but unlike other weapons he still cost a lot, but can be used in very rare occasions thus we expect it to be devastating weapon in those occasions where you can use it :>

[Glave]

*Points at this very thing being discussed a few posts ago*

Though its actually more like a difference of +24.7 damage to +6 damage vs CA.

Thing is that we don't have a variety of ammo for shotgun to choose, so the penetration is very weak, so is the range and without penetration, the damage output itself is crap. That seems to be the main problem, as the gun itself is pretty decent, even for it's price.

[Solar]

no one is saying jackhammer is weak

Next post

the damage output itself is crap

Haha.

Thing is that we don't have a variety of ammo for shotgun to choose, so the penetration is very weak, so is the range and without penetration, the damage output itself is crap. That seems to be the main problem, as the gun itself is pretty decent, even for it's price.

Damage output is great. As stated many times.

To give some figures behind that statement. The Jackhammer does 91% the damage of the damage and Avenger to CA and 128% the damage of the Minigun.

Even giving everyone 2 BRD levels it goes to 81% and 113%.

Note, I give you CA statss because its the weakest comparison for the Jackhammer, vs the other Armours its practically even to the Avenger without BRD being factored in.

[vedaras]

well anyway, if for example sniper rifle could shoot only targets that are more far then 16 hexes with same remaining cost i could say that then prices and weapons strength is balanced. Now its not no matter what numbers you give us, but people arent using it in fights for a reason (we are trying to tell).

[Glave]

Damage output is great. As stated many times.

Great job on failing to understand what I've meant. Actually, go ahead and try yourself, who will win such a fight: a character with a BA and a Pancor or maybe a character with identical stats as the previous one, except that it's wielding an Avenger with AP ammo? Add the bonus ranged damage perk, of course. Oh, you can also do a quick test on a person under the influence of psycho, which is right now so common.

[Tomowolf]

Hmm if i say Jackhammer is good for TB pk and killing mobs - Avenger for RT pvp

[Solar]

To give some figures behind that statement. The Jackhammer does 91% the damage of the damage and Avenger to CA and 128% the damage of the Minigun.

Even giving everyone 2 BRD levels it goes to 81% and 113%.

Note, I give you CA statss because its the weakest comparison for the Jackhammer, vs the other Armours its practically even to the Avenger without BRD being factored in.

Quoting the edit.

(Jackhammer still fine)