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Yes, I like it

24 (58.5%)

With some changes but yes

7 (17.1%)

I don't know

3 (7.3%)

No, I don't like it

2 (4.9%)

Cooldowns are better

5 (12.2%)

Total Members Voted: 41

[Sius]

You have to understand there is a difference between, "I need to get this done with absolutely 0 seconds wasted," and, "I'll gather some ore while playing." If you don't want to waste any time then you're stuck with being bored. If you're smart, you enjoy the game.

And you have to understand that people are bothered by that never ending circle of wait-action-wait. When they start an action they want to end when they fulfill their goal or at least some part of it (or whenever they decide its time to move on) and no one wants to get interrupted during their action by some forced "ok now its time to do other stuff, before we allow you to continue in your original action for a while". Thats just bad game design and not entertaining at all. You say if people are smart they will do other stuff. Yeah like killing radscorpions which is absolutely not possible in my suggestion because you have to run around endlessly like Forrest Gump right? Tell me what do you mean by "do other stuff that takes more than 6 minutes" exactly? What do you do when you play this game and you do not craft at the moment or you wait for cooldown? You go out level up a bit? You chat with some friends? You PvP a bit? Every single one of these is possible in my suggestion and some of it even taken into whole new level (like an actual PvE and player cooperation). Man you just see it from bad angle.

Crafting/farming is pretty much one man task and you can establish your own manufacture on it right now. But try to look at my suggestion rather not only from crafting point of view but from "playing the game" point of view. Such maps should be designed to be the playground for pretty much everyone starting with crafters, PvE seekers and ending with PvPers. So its not like you decide to get some materials farmed and run to the wilds just to get some of it to craft this particular item. Yes you can do that, but it would not be necessary because during an actual leveling/PvEing/scavengering you simply stumble across resources and you farm them as you continue your journey through the map. Only those who would focus on farming will get some better reward but there again people could absolutely ignore boring farming and simply pay people that will farm for them. But now nothing like this is possible because obtaining mats is easy and if you wait 30 or 50 minutes, hell whats the difference I'll at least get my room tidied up...

[Alvarez]

And you have to understand that people are bothered by that never ending circle of wait-action-wait. When they start an action they want to end when they fulfill their goal or at least some part of it (or whenever they decide its time to move on) and no one wants to get interrupted during their action by some forced "ok now its time to do other stuff, before we allow you to continue in your original action for a while". Thats just bad game design and not entertaining at all. You say if people are smart they will do other stuff. Yeah like killing radscorpions which is absolutely not possible in my suggestion because you have to run around endlessly like Forrest Gump right? Tell me what do you mean by "do other stuff that takes more than 6 minutes" exactly? What do you do when you play this game and you do not craft at the moment or you wait for cooldown? You go out level up a bit? You chat with some friends? You PvP a bit? Every single one of these is possible in my suggestion and some of it even taken into whole new level (like an actual PvE and player cooperation). Man you just see it from bad angle.

Crafting/farming is pretty much one man task and you can establish your own manufacture on it right now. But try to look at my suggestion rather not only from crafting point of view but from "playing the game" point of view. Such maps should be designed to be the playground for pretty much everyone starting with crafters, PvE seekers and ending with PvPers. So its not like you decide to get some materials farmed and run to the wilds just to get some of it to craft this particular item. Yes you can do that, but it would not be necessary because during an actual leveling/PvEing/scavengering you simply stumble across resources and you farm them as you continue your journey through the map. Only those who would focus on farming will get some better reward but there again people could absolutely ignore boring farming and simply pay people that will farm for them. But now nothing like this is possible because obtaining mats is easy and if you wait 30 or 50 minutes, hell whats the difference I'll at least get my room tidied up...

Come on, Sius, here you can read what devs think of the idea.
http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=2310.0
The topic was closed.
Not only you is pissed about the fucking waste of time calling cooldown. The server could be flooded with items - suggestions to avoid it were made, but hit deaf ears.

That's why bot miners are being developed, i say it again.
Just eliminate the cause. Get prospectors in Redding sell Ore and Minerals. What are they doing, jetting themselves off all the day? Where comes the money?
IT'S A MINER CITY GODDAMNIT! THEY MINE AND SELL STUFF!

[Sius]

You know what they say about lies. Repeat a lie a thousand times and it becomes the truth. I'm just hoping it works with suggestions too...

[Lordus]

Sius, i dont believe you will succeed.

 I suggested my Nuclear waste caves.

 It will not take much time to realize it. Only take one or two longest caves map, add green area to their ends (green area = transport to other part of the city/map) and make one little map, with storage like 10-20 hex, with one generator, one cage, one computer. And add radioation, some critters (firegeckons, because they are best). And the result was: Lexx: dont think adding firegeckons will balance the caves..

 So they did not get the point, that we need more (at least ONE) PvE where we can use something else than our weapons skills (lockpick, science, repair,..).

 No, they dont get it, that this kind of repatable actions can hold the players inside the game.

 They rather make 3D (like major game developers) but they did not realized, that fallout was about content, not about super 3D graphics.

 Why they need 3D if they were unable to add purpose to most of smallguns, cold guns,... in the past 8 months? To add new weapons, HAHA. I dont think that new hair color or.. will hold me in the game. Hurray, i have new basic skin, i will more enjoy endless leveling, 3 quests, clicking on minerals than ever. Hurray. What is the logic???

[Alvarez]

You know what they say about lies. Repeat a lie a thousand times and it becomes the truth. I'm just hoping it works with suggestions too...

I wish you were right. Most things a player wish doesn't make sense from the developers point of view.

I don't get it.
Are we perhaps testing only the mechanics in beta? Fun in gameplay seems for now just a very secondary priority.

Does it makes sense making gameplay improvement suggestions at all?

[blahblah]

And you have to understand that people are bothered by that never ending circle of wait-action-wait.

Like. I. Said. Your suggestion will most probably end being search-die-search. And the current situation is action-click-action. Gathering any resource takes 5 seconds after which you can continue doing what you were doing. Be it PvP, PvE, or nagging people in NCR.

Yeah like killing radscorpions which is absolutely not possible in my suggestion because you have to run around endlessly like Forrest Gump right? Tell me what do you mean by "do other stuff that takes more than 6 minutes" exactly? What do you do when you play this game and you do not craft at the moment or you wait for cooldown? You go out level up a bit? You chat with some friends? You PvP a bit? Every single one of these is possible in my suggestion and some of it even taken into whole new level (like an actual PvE and player cooperation).

This is why one dev here said that this suggestion requires a lot of work for no big benefit. You admit it yourself all of this is already possible. And new encounters will probably be added "Soon".
I won't be able to PvE in your suggestion because it's real-time only. I haven't been playing Quake for the last ten years of my life so my 50HP low-level character will get murdered by anything with a gun very fast. And when someone joins my encounter then that 12AP I have sacrificed a lot to get is useless and won't let me escape anyway.

The "timeout" for getting resources will stay the same even with your suggestion. Only difference is that it will be adjusted to the standard of a 10-person party of powergamers. Because if not, the game will be flooded with easy to get items. You can't have an encounter map with ore appearing somewhere in the open, because factions will keep entering new encounters to get just that one without any effort. So single players won't be able to even make a gun for themselves.

Such maps should be designed to be the playground for pretty much everyone starting with crafters, PvE seekers and ending with PvPers.

A crafter goes in, followed by a PvE seeker, and they both die and get looted by a lucky minigunner.

So its not like you decide to get some materials farmed and run to the wilds just to get some of it to craft this particular item. Yes you can do that, but it would not be necessary because during an actual leveling/PvEing/scavengering you simply stumble across resources and you farm them as you continue your journey through the map. Only those who would focus on farming will get some better reward but there again people could absolutely ignore boring farming and simply pay people that will farm for them. But now nothing like this is possible because obtaining mats is easy and if you wait 30 or 50 minutes, hell whats the difference I'll at least get my room tidied up...

You've just explained how I play the game. I walk around the worldmap, level up and sometimes venture inside a cavern, and after every finished encounter I look around to see if there are some rocks around and my timeout finished. So I gather stuff while I play. Gathering is not considered by me as part of the game, just as a short interruption. Only thing I'd change is weight of materials. If they weighed 1/2 as much then I wouldn't have to go to a city and craft them into lighter items every time I gather them. Low ST sucks :p

The server could be flooded with items - suggestions to avoid it were made, but hit deaf ears.

Are you really thinking a rock with HP would be better than allowing players to play? The ones with deaf ears are players, I fear :/
Spend 6 minutes "attacking" rock to get 5 ore, or get ore and go play the game again after 5 seconds? I prefer the latter.

Get prospectors in Redding sell Ore and Minerals.

Good idea, but right now I think there is still a caps exploit allowing factions to get 99999999 caps in a day.

[Solar]

Well I see you don't think that people bored/people entertained has any differences between each other so its pointless for me to try to defend this suggestion.

And just for a record I don't know what avv suggested at IRC but I can assure you this idea of mine is as old as the whole cooldown crafting since it was suggested at NMA few months ago.

Urgh. *Beats self in the head repeatedly*. I'm saying that there is nothing intrinsically more entertaining than trying to find something thats hard to find over timeouts, the interesting thing was not and never will be the delaying mecahnism that needs to be in there to prevent the whole system being flooded.

The wipe will see "interesting" things added to mining locations, seemingly arrived at by a game of chinese whispers from your old post on NMA. They'll either be open to PvE from NPCs, or a combination of PvP and PvE or out in encounters where you'll have to search for them.

There will also, generally, be more need to move about the world map to get all the stuff you need together and there will be reduced timeouts for the things with really long timeouts now too.

But as I've been saying, this is all possible without removing timeouts, since they have never been the problem, but the general passivity of the whole experience was

[Sius]

Urgh. *Beats self in the head repeatedly*. I'm saying that there is nothing intrinsically more entertaining than trying to find something thats hard to find over timeouts, the interesting thing was not and never will be the delaying mecahnism that needs to be in there to prevent the whole system being flooded.

Eh its maybe first time we understand each other . Yes I agree completely but this was never an issue of my argues here. All I'm trying to defend is a bit of strange thing for Fallouts and thats world and environment (since we know only cities/other locations/random encounters as green circles). As I said at the end of my 1st post here I would love to see some explorable maps and opportunities to scavenger the wasteland ingame even tho cooldowns never change. Also same thing applies to the PvE aspect that is totally missing right now. And if exploration+scavenging can be combined with PvE all together in natural environment of the wasteland (without green circles) then its even better.

The wipe will see "interesting" things added to mining locations, seemingly arrived at by a game of chinese whispers from your old post on NMA. They'll either be open to PvE from NPCs, or a combination of PvP and PvE or out in encounters where you'll have to search for them.

There will also, generally, be more need to move about the world map to get all the stuff you need together and there will be reduced timeouts for the things with really long timeouts now too.

But as I've been saying, this is all possible without removing timeouts, since they have never been the problem

Well thats all great news but still when I hear something like timeout or cooldown then I always tend to compare it to other games and how their crafting system works without such features. Well I guess I will never get used for cooldowns.

[Lexx]

They rather make 3D (like major game developers) but they did not realized, that fallout was about content, not about super 3D graphics.

You have obviously no clue about what we are doing and that's why you make shit up, eh?

I tell you some news: Right now, nobody from us is working on 3d models.

Why they need 3D if they were unable to add purpose to most of smallguns, cold guns,... in the past 8 months? To add new weapons

We are adding 3d models for characters with lots of customization possibilities, because the community want's to have their characters not look like clones. And the only real way to archive that is via 3d models. Except if you want to draw thousands of images, wich I guess you don't want to do.

[Bartosz]

Well I guess I will never get used for cooldowns.

I guess the best of both worlds is sort of 'parallel approach', where you are still doing some activities to obtain stuff, but when you obtain it, the timeout is still applied, so at minimum, you're still limited by it.

Otherwise adjusting the difficulty/chance is nightmare, and, if balanced finally, will end up with average time equal to the timeout anyway.

[Lordus]

We are adding 3d models for characters with lots of customization possibilities, because the community want's to have their characters not look like clones. And the only real way to archive that is via 3d models. Except if you want to draw thousands of images, wich I guess you don't want to do.

I am glad that when wipe will be done, i will be able to customize my char.

[Alvarez]

I am glad that when wipe will be done, i will be able to customize my char.

Nope, Lordus, in case you didn't noticed: after this wipe we will have only 3D critters.

Devs will probably test if they run fine with the system, don't cause unsolvable problems and expect player user feedback with them.
Perhaps give some custom skins to various players on different machines or GMs to test how the animation reacts to input, if there's some lag, etc.

After that, they will PROBABLY introduce player customisation content if it's complete and this goal is still months away and there's still work to do.

[Lexx]

With this wipe, we will only include the few animal 3d models we have. Nothing more. Player 3d models will be deactivated for this time. We said this in the news and in the third dev video.

[Alvarez]

With this wipe, we will only include the few animal 3d models we have. Nothing more. Player 3d models will be deactivated for this time. We said this in the news and in the third dev video.

Will you announce the stats of new critters soon?

[Gunduz]

Will you announce the stats of new critters soon?

I think those will be automatically updated on the wiki by AHS-9 because that's one of the things he is responsible for.