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Yes, I like it

24 (58.5%)

With some changes but yes

7 (17.1%)

I don't know

3 (7.3%)

No, I don't like it

2 (4.9%)

Cooldowns are better

5 (12.2%)

Total Members Voted: 41

[Wichura]

How about just make another way to gathering, like searching/scavenging, and keep existing way of gathering with cooldowns for rocks, junk, wood and so on? You can either go search for some resources with couple mates, like real Boneyard scavengers, and find goods, adventures or death, or take a hammer and stick to some rock pile for a longer while.

[Sius]

this whole thread looks somewhat fammiliar...
http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=52314&highlight=drakonis

Or kinda like upgraded http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=727254&highlight=#727254

To blahblah:

1) Timeouts are gone.

How is this in any way flaw in my suggestion? Sure cooldowns are easy way how to manage things but they are also the most boring aspect of the game and incredible time killers. I believe if some global vote pool is done most of players would vote against current crafting system calling for some change. I'm one of them and I suggested something that would keep me interested even when I have to do the boring stuff (find mats to craft from them). If the idea supports cooperation, pve, exploration then why on earth you talk about it like its some evil that will corrupt the game economics and ruin it. Yes its challenging to implement it, yes its hard to get it balanced, but hell yes its fun.

2) Resources are generated on maps sometimes.

That would be very rare case and only for some resources like metal parts, wood or such, that can be found on "natural" spots like wood near destroyed family house, metal parts at wrecked car etc. Main idea is to get material sources randomly spawned so people would have to find them and obtain raw materials from them.

3) Factions don't give a damn about anything other than PvP

Ok I don't get it how this is a flaw again. You mean that gangs would scavenger such locations in greater numbers, getting their items faster than others? Well but thats also part of the main idea and anything against that system (try harder=get more) would be... absolutely stupid. You want more search harder or bring some friends. No stupid mining bot will help you now, no alts or cheats to bypass cooldowns, everything is based only on you and your effort to obtain resources. And I also have to remind you that there is possibility of new supplier/consumer economy that could start existing thanks to this. People could actually start cooperating among themselves, because its not an easy task to get all materials together so its easier for some just to buy and craft from them and then sell the stuff etc. But now its pretty much like everyone is universal factory for himself and he just choose what he will produce and then wait, wait, wait, wait...



I think this is not bad idea at all, its just hell of a job to get it implemented and thats main reason why it will most probably never happen. But if it should get implemented then imho its success/fail would depend only at developers and how they would process and balance it and not on any flaws in design. Yeah balance is always pain whenever its weapon strength or crafting "cooldown" but damn it you don't make this game to be simple and easy (=boring more or less), do you?

[blahblah]

To blahblah:How is this in any way flaw in my suggestion?

Sigh. I wrote that in a hurry and it was morning so I organized it badly. Re-read that one sentence in my post again please.

I'm not against trying harder equalling getting more, but I'm just trying to show you that unless every location has good stuff, then the idea will be even more hated.

Factions will not try harder, but just look for ways of getting stuff fastest. So devs will need to adjust every timesink accordingly to a 10-man party of level 21 biggunners & assorted specialist alts.
Unless you create new components needed to craft stuff, the only resources required will be iron ore and minerals. So for a group that large to get 5 ore per member only once every 6 minutes means that you'd have to fight 50 supermutants and 10 laser-shooting cows for each source of resources. So people other than massive gangs will be fucked over once again.

If you implement other items needed for crafting, then these maps will be perfect for griefing.
Imagine going down an empty elevator shaft with your team. You're all, "wow. let's see what's inside," and when you get down you get killed by three guys in powerarmour with avengers shouting "HA HA" and farming noob gear.

Cooldowns are time killers, but only when you can't do anything then. But you can! After the wipe mods say you'll be able to do even more, and that's a big :O from me, because now I already can craft, like, 200 bullets and a sniper rifle and go shoot stuff without having to wait at all thanks to the cumulative timeout goodness.

The only people who are butthurt with current timeouts are factions who want to maximise production. Sane players just do other stuff after the timeout starts and after 15 minutes of having fun realize "oh. look at the time. I can get some more ore now." If you want to be 100% efficient, tough luck. It's a fair price to pay, if you ask me.
With the system you suggest, unless devs magically start shitting rainbows and code so that a perfect implementation is done, factions will either be overpowered, or crying bloody murder.

[Elmehdi]

The only people who are butthurt with current timeouts are factions who want to maximise production.

Yeah, everybody else just love it.

Sane players just do other stuff after the timeout starts and after 15 minutes of having fun realize "oh. look at the time. I can get some more ore now."

Now tell us what exacly is that you can do in 6 minutes.
 

If you want to be 100% efficient, tough luck. It's a fair price to pay, if you ask me.

Or use autoclicker.

factions will either be overpowered, or crying bloody murder.

If you compare a faction to a lone player capabilities the yes - factions will always be "overpowered".

I think that the only reason why the devs are so strongly against this idea is that they know how much work it would require. I don't really believe that they really see scavenging instead of cooldowns as a bad suggestion - they just certainly have a lot of other issues to deal with  .

[Parowooz]

Everyone who is hungry for scavenging-crafting system visit TLA. There are no timesouts for gathering, you just enter random loactions on the map and gather stuff. And belive me it gets really boring after 3 times.

[Sius]

Everyone who is hungry for scavenging-crafting system visit TLA. There are no timesouts for gathering, you just enter random loactions on the map and gather stuff. And belive me it gets really boring after 3 times.

I really doubt they have anything like this suggestion working there. They simply have raw materials waiting for them at encounters instead of waiting for cooldowns as we do. I've read posts here at forum from people that think TLA crafting>2238 so its 100 people 100 tastes. But cooldowns are something I would expect at browser game and not in Fallout. Browser games are designed that way so you have your 30-60 mins of fun but after that you simply turn it off and do other stuff until its ready again next day. But such thing does not work for MMORPGs. People play it because they want to experience oldschool game from bright new perspective and eventually have fun and/or relax while playing. And majority of people simply does not find anything entertaining in waiting. And don't tell me you can do other stuff while cooldown counts. Yes you can, but its like saying you can go drive your new car but you have to wait every 6 minutes for fuel to magically appear in tank. Yes of course you can leave your car alone for those 6 minutes and go admire butterflies or play Snake game at your mobile phone but god damn it you want to drive your car at that time and not to be forced to "do other stuff" just to kill some time while waiting for cooldown.

No one is trying to say that this will morph boring waiting into juicy running around with smile on your face all the time, but hell there are options what you can do, there are choices and eventually its possible to avoid boring part at all if you are rich enough to afford it. Farming materials imho will be always the most boring part of the whole crafting while learning how to craft new items and eventually craft/modify/sell them will be the fun part. Search->reward will not change that, but it can add real choices what to do with your time while you are on the hunt for materials and make it a little bit more fun. And again look at the pool. If we divide undecided people in two then its 80% for and 20% against this suggestion...

[Solar]

I think that the only reason why the devs are so strongly against this idea is that they know how much work it would require. I don't really believe that they really see scavenging instead of cooldowns as a bad suggestion - they just certainly have a lot of other issues to deal with  .

Unbelievably (and for the last time) I will say this again.

There would be no difference between a timeout system that makes use of "active" features and a system where things are hidden and makes use of active features.

Why it (meaning taking timeouts away to be replaced by hiding stuff) won't be done is 1. Its far too technically demanding and 2. We aren't in the habbit of undertaking masses of work for no net gain.

The "active" part of the suggestion was said several weeks ago to be underway. In fact it was avv's suggestion in IRC that I shamelessly stole and then modified. (Although you are correct about it requiring a lot of work )

Or use autoclicker.

After the wipe I expect autoclickers will just be killed and looted.  

[avv]

The "active" part of the suggestion was said several weeks ago to be underway. In fact it was avv's suggestion in IRC that I shamelessly stole and then modified. (Although you are correct about it requiring a lot of work )

Actually it was Sius' post in nma forums which I tried to introduce.

But if there is some sort of interactive gathering system on the assembly line, then we'd better check it out first.

[Sius]

Unbelievably (and for the last time) I will say this again.

There would be no difference between a timeout system that makes use of "active" features and a system where things are hidden and makes use of active features.

Why it (meaning taking timeouts away to be replaced by hiding stuff) won't be done is 1. Its far too technically demanding and 2. We aren't in the habbit of undertaking masses of work for no net gain.

The "active" part of the suggestion was said several weeks ago to be underway. In fact it was avv's suggestion in IRC that I shamelessly stole and then modified. (Although you are correct about it requiring a lot of work )

Well I see you don't think that people bored/people entertained has any differences between each other so its pointless for me to try to defend this suggestion.

And just for a record I don't know what avv suggested at IRC but I can assure you this idea of mine is as old as the whole cooldown crafting since it was suggested at NMA few months ago.

[Elmehdi]

We aren't in the habbit of undertaking masses of work for no net gain.

Well to be honest, I think that replacing the the current gathering system with just anything else is already a net gain. Forcing a player to stay and click in one point once a 6 minutes is bad, and do really have a hope that it's only a temporary solution.

After the wipe I expect autoclickers will just be killed and looted.

 

I really look forward to see what you have prepared for us  .

[bipboy]

I really look forward to see what you have prepared for us  .

If you keep mining at the same spot for over 1 hour it will be reveal in the world map as a big yellow dot.


and I sincerely think Sius' idea is pointing to the good direction. Anything which will enhance the PvE/teamwork/role playing aspects of the game is good. That's what FOnline 2238 is currently lacking. Talking on the PvP side, it would be more fun if you don't lose the most valuable item after you die or if it was not such a pain in the ass to craft one.

[blahblah]

And majority of people simply does not find anything entertaining in waiting. And don't tell me you can do other stuff while cooldown counts. Yes you can, but its like saying you can go drive your new car but you have to wait every 6 minutes for fuel to magically appear in tank. Yes of course you can leave your car alone for those 6 minutes and go admire butterflies or play Snake game at your mobile phone but god damn it you want to drive your car at that time and not to be forced to "do other stuff" just to kill some time while waiting for cooldown.

You are intentionally ignoring the solution :/
Your car example is so flawed I can't even fix it.

Crafting/Gathering is not fun. So timeout does not prevent you from having fun. Every player-killing bastard here will agree PvP and killing others is fun. What is not fun is making the weapons required.
So you can either waste 6 minutes (or MORE if you are unlucky searching) to find materials, or you can find materials in 10 seconds. Leave it in base. Go kill someone, or do other stuff that takes more than 6 minutes and when you are done you can get some more materials.
What poor Solar is trying to show you is that both solutions need to take 6 minutes or more to get 5 iron ore. Either you get it instantly, do whatever you want ingame and then get some more. Or you actively waste your time doing stuff you may not like at all.

Everyone wants to be 1000% best and get everything fastest they can, and that forces people into the habit of waiting for the timeout to end. Stop waiting, start playing. And gather the other 5 ore 20 minutes later after you are done.

Now tell us what exacly is that you can do in 6 minutes.

Did you even read what you quoted?
Timeout is 6 minutes. Player want million items. Player wait. Player is not powergamer? Player does stuff. Player finishes stuff. Timeout gone. Player did more than timeout. So timeout gone. Now can click. Timeout again. Do stuff again. Player notices that again timeout ended 10 minutes ago.
Simple enough?
Nobody but you yourself are forcing you to WAIT for the timeout. NORMAL PEOPLE DO OTHER STUFF LIKE SHOOTING RADSCORPIONS.
 

Or use autoclicker.

Players cannot get to level 999 and have 300% of every skill. That means they create alts.
I know! Let's fight alting by getting rid of level cap and making every player able to have 300% of all skills so that he won't need alts.
Wrong approach dude.

If you compare a faction to a lone player capabilities the yes - factions will always be "overpowered".

There's a difference to dying when attacked by a group - faction. And dying when attacked by just one person because he is part of a group which can create 50 CAs in a day so everyone wears one and does not even mind losing it in random fights.

Well to be honest, I think that replacing the the current gathering system with just anything else is already a net gain. Forcing a player to stay and click in one point once a 6 minutes is bad, and do really have a hope that it's only a temporary solution.

Who is forcing you to stay now? Who? Nobody.
But with this suggestion, you will be forced to stay in one place and look around endlessly for 6 minutes or more to get what you want.



I really hope this gets implemented. Everyone will complain when they realized it's not going to magically make things faster.


EDIT

@ below:
Notice how 6 out of 18 people said they play the game while 'waiting'.
You have to understand there is a difference between, "I need to get this done with absolutely 0 seconds wasted," and, "I'll gather some ore while playing."
If you don't want to waste any time then you're stuck with being bored. If you're smart, you enjoy the game. And by the way, I can't even begin to express how insanely awesome the cumulative 60 minute crafting timer is.

[Badger]

Nobody but you yourself are forcing you to WAIT for the timeout. NORMAL PEOPLE DO OTHER STUFF LIKE SHOOTING RADSCORPIONS.

Oh.

[Lexx]

Oh.

"Normal people" :p

[Alvarez]

"Normal people" :p

Oh, the bitter developer sarcasm...

Speaking of which, statements like this always improves personal opinions.