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Yes, I like it

24 (58.5%)

With some changes but yes

7 (17.1%)

I don't know

3 (7.3%)

No, I don't like it

2 (4.9%)

Cooldowns are better

5 (12.2%)

Total Members Voted: 41

[Sius]

yeah, people have already explore caves and harvesting ripper/small guns from those cave dwellers. The only thing we need is to have raw material/more stuff/critter/maps/small repeatable quests from those encounter maps. So no fundamental change to the current encounter map mechanism.

Also check out this thread
http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=1891.0

Problem is that small maps are not explorable. When whole map is not larger than 2-3 screens then its hard to explore anything there. Sure we can always add new exiting maps and places and scavenger them, but its still luck/skill based rather than effort=outcome. I mean what should decide that you encounter such location instead of basic desert map? Your outdoorsman skill? Also how should crafting system work with it? Remain the same, just add some possibilities to loot raw materials at interesting locations or something else?
Yea sure such additional locations would be great, bringing some more fun into the game but in the end they won't change much.

[Solar]

As someone at General Game Discussion said when you craft its like 30% being ingame and 70% watching youtube or playing solitare.

Adding a PvE element to crafting is totally different to searching for resources.
PvE is good, searching/timeouts/hitting HP rocks is all the same thing disguised differently

Searching for resources would just be filling up time with *something* that is totally unproductive is no better than standing still waiting for a timeout.

[Imprezobus]

possibility of making random stuff to explore is most fallouty thing i can ever imagine. :<

[Drakonis]

Adding a PvE element to crafting is totally different to searching for resources.
PvE is good, searching/timeouts/hitting HP rocks is all the same thing disguised differently

Searching for resources would just be filling up time with *something* that is totally unproductive is no better than standing still waiting for a timeout.

but it would make botting really goddamn hard and right now its 30% Ogame :/
I think idea is great.. just adjust it so it's possible to implement yet still cool

[Badger]

Searching for resources would just be filling up time with *something* that is totally unproductive is no better than standing still waiting for a timeout.

But it wouldn't be totally unproductive. In these locations there would be things to kill, non-crafting items to loot, skills to use, and even maybe quests to complete. To me, that's not unproductive, that's a solid foundation of a game.

[Elmehdi]

Searching for resources would just be filling up time with *something* that is totally unproductive is no better than standing still waiting for a timeout.

Unproductive?  I have alway thought that exploring abandoned zones in search for resources/items is - as well as exploring post nuclear communities - the essence of the fallout. Tell me I'm wrong  .

[Sius]

Adding a PvE element to crafting is totally different to searching for resources.
PvE is good, searching/timeouts/hitting HP rocks is all the same thing disguised differently

Searching for resources would just be filling up time with *something* that is totally unproductive is no better than standing still waiting for a timeout.

But where is the line between farming resources and fighting NPCs in order to get access to old gas station/search wrecked car/enter destroyed house? With my suggestion it could be very thin line. And introducing small "not-marked-on-world-map-dungeons" could finally create some PvE challenge in the game while still Fallout rules like "no instances generated for each group" will not be broken. And yet raiding such dungeons would be pretty much undisturbed because chances of getting into the same location as previous group, finding same dungeon and following them there are pretty small.

You can say its same as cooldowns only disguised and you could be right but my idea would have to look like "huge empty map with some randomly spawned resources for players to find and move on to another map". But its not and the main thing that separates current system and my suggestion is that people would have choices here. No boring waiting and alt tabing, simply active time spend ingame with all possibilities that awaits you out there.

Just look at pool statistics. Yea its nothing compared to number of players that play 2238 but it still have some value. People are not satisfied with cooldown crafting and they never were from the day one when it was introduced. I understand that its easy manageable way how to overseer crafting and its effect on the game but this is not browser game. Its Fallout online and its great game that deserves something more than this...

[Solar]

But it wouldn't be totally unproductive. In these locations there would be things to kill, non-crafting items to loot, skills to use, and even maybe quests to complete. To me, that's not unproductive, that's a solid foundation of a game.

Nothing in that sentence rules out timeouts and favours making things sufficiently hard to find that it takes as long as a timeout to find them.

But where is the line between farming resources and fighting NPCs in order to get access to old gas station/search wrecked car/enter destroyed house? With my suggestion it could be very thin line. And introducing small "not-marked-on-world-map-dungeons" could finally create some PvE challenge in the game while still Fallout rules like "no instances generated for each group" will not be broken. And yet raiding such dungeons would be pretty much undisturbed because chances of getting into the same location as previous group, finding same dungeon and following them there are pretty small.

See above.


Divorce the aspects from each other.
1. PvE good. Was stated many times we are going in this direction
2. Searching for things that are so hard to find they take as long as a timeout = having a timeout.

Nothing stops these PvE locations from being part of a timeout system.

[Sius]

Nothing stops these PvE locations from being part of a timeout system.

Timeout in that sense it will have to take some time to find them so items will not be "for free". But man thats pretty ANY crafting system what so ever. But these PvE locations would not be boring as waiting for damn cooldown to expire.

[Tyler]

This is a waste of time and yes I'm going to stop worrying about it.No matter what anyone says here its going to come down to the same responses about trading one timer for another.We understand that your either waiting for a timer or looking for materials,but its not the time spent on crafting so much as How the time is spent.With a more active system im place it could take twice as long to make anything as far as Im concerned because all i really want to do is get away from rocks and plant stalks so i can go do something fun.I think that is what it all comes down to so YES please do trade one for the other.Six minutes isnt such a long time but it doesnt give you a chance to do anything else until its done and that I think is why it sucks.I will wait and see what you guys have up your sleeves because I know you guys want it to work as good as possible for everyone even if we dont all agree on your methods.

[blahblah]

I'm with Solar on this. Timeouts are the lesser evil because you can actually do stuff while it is counting down. With map searching it'd be like before the wipe where rocks could be found 50/50 on a map so you just had to do the boring "enter, check, nothing, go out" until you found one rock and then repeated it over and over until overweight. But now it'd be 5/95 to find the rocks because you should be able to find one pile every 6 minutes, so it'd be really boring.

Sius, I can already find resources and explore the world. I just dig and then go move around to kill some plants or rats. It's essentially the same and with your maps we'll all be doomed.

Fun suggestion to mods:
Do a wipe *now* and get rid of gathering timeouts. Then make maps with resources appear only 5% of the time. In a few days there'll be wipe anyway and players will get to know how search -> reward is a pain in the ass too.

EDIT:

I didn't read through even half of the thread and just skimmed through to get to GM answers, so maybe this was noted before.
Huge flaw in your idea Sius:
Because timeouts are gone, resources are generated on maps sometimes, and factions don't give a damn about anything other than PvP, groups of people will enter location, see "interesting" rats or other stuff... And ignore it looking for items.
See, the faster they get to resources the more they'll get. And distractions such as "interesting" stuff are not interesting for them. So while a casual player can go investigate, they'll simply rush through the map, say "CLEAR" and rush through another. Again and again. Because the only thing limiting resources amount is luck and number of people searching. So big factions in two days will start saying "gay" and "this is stupid, remove searching," and, "why do I have to go through twenty maps to find stuff? this is lame."

[avv]

I'm with Solar on this. Timeouts are the lesser evil because you can actually do stuff while it is counting down. With map searching it'd be like before the wipe where rocks could be found 50/50 on a map so you just had to do the boring "enter, check, nothing, go out" until you found one rock and then repeated it over and over until overweight. But now it'd be 5/95 to find the rocks because you should be able to find one pile every 6 minutes, so it'd be really boring.

Current gathering timeouts are bad, 6 minutes is not enough to do much and being forced to check in every 6 mins or so to maximize production is definitely not fun or entertaining. Sius idea wouldn't be anything like "check location, leave", but "explore location, leave". The difference between checking and exploring is that when you explore, you might meet quest related things, nice random loot, enemies, friends or victims. There's much more interaction.

3) Factions don't give a damn about anything other than PvP
1, 2 & 3 combined mean that groups of people will enter location, see "interesting" rats or other stuff... And ignore it looking for items.
See, the faster they get to resources the more they'll get. And distractions such as "interesting" stuff are not interesting for them. So while a casual player can go investigate, they'll simply rush through the map, say "CLEAR" and rush through another. Again and again. Because the only thing limiting resources amount is luck and number of people searching. So big factions in two days will start saying "gay" and "this is stupid, remove searching," and, "why do I have to go through twenty maps to find stuff? this is lame."

This is what they are doing right now and there's not much that can be done about it, but the system suggested would definitely bring more good than bad, it would fix few bad features and totally bring more interactivitiy. In addition If there was a chance to meet other players in those maps, people would not just rush through them because it could get them killed.

[Badger]

I think people are imagining the search > reward system to be like a bad game of hide and seek.

Think of it instead like a self contained quest area, with the reward being crafting items and other loot.

You could power through it and grab what's instantly available, but you wouldn't get anything good. If you invest more time into it, you're rewarded more. If you're with a group of people with a diverse set of skills, you're rewarded more. If you've brought more than your jumpsuit and tools, you're rewarded more. Then getting resources becomes more than just emptying your inventory back at your tent, and clicking in and out of encounter maps with your crafter alt.

If you want the best stuff, you'll have to do what the NPCs want. Or find/craft/steal a rope in order to get down an elevator shaft. Or exterminate deathclaws to get into the area with the best materials. Or repair a generator. Or science up a terminal to get it producing bio med gel. Or hell, even gamble with NPCs.

[Solar]

Think of it instead like a self contained quest area, with the reward being crafting items and other loot.

Then think of this, but when you get that reward you have a 5 minute timeout applied.

Instead of then having to make these places hard enough that it takes 5 minutes to get through for a level 21 (which is an almost impossible task) you can forget about that fiddly requirement and it makes the whole process easier.

Obviously we hope the time that things of interest are happening matches or exceeds the timeout, so there is no waiting, but if players become good enough/there are easy ways round it/bugs then we always have the timeout insurance, so the economy doesn't get flooded.

[Drakonis]

this whole thread looks somewhat fammiliar...
http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=52314&highlight=drakonis