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[Wiktor_pl]

At, Deputy Dope:

Well, yes, i was in some PvE this session and if you encounter something vs something and they're busy fighting each other, and you enter alone and make a distress call for friends its not hard at all. But thats not the point, making NPCs tougher is wrong way, you can always fool computer player.
So, options in my opinion:
1. Make crafting cooldown more balanced, higher hour cap for crafting, or just remove the cap and instead give some short breaks (30sec) for making each item.
2. Leave obtainable through encounters stuff that is high tier, with which you can PvP, but not the highest. So, bring back BA and nerf a bit CA/Ma MkII or buff BA. Avenger miniguns back and miniguns slightly nerfed or Avenger better. Dont know if its the right way, but i think highest tier stuff shouldnt be obtainable with that ease, it dont have to be craft the only way to obtain BA/Avengers, but can be something different, connected with PvE.
3. Encounters should be limited in some way, frequency should decrease with amount of killed creatures and replenish by time. (there's no infinite number of soldiers over wastelands)
4. (as for me, personal request ) make 7.62 craftable in easier way/nerf a bit m60 so Biggunners got some middle tier weapon (now its uberstuff or flamers).

At StickyWicket:
I'm not often ingame, but i still sometimes get some RP while i am and i think it is possible if players gangs would have more game mechanics allowed to make their own vision of wastelands. Wasteland Protectors were cool, as well as Redding project, i liked it much, but there were not much possibiities others than use your imagination only to make RP. If we for ex. could influence on ingame world more it would make new possibilites.

[DeputyDope]

At, Deputy Dope:

Well, yes, i was in some PvE this session and if you encounter something vs something and they're busy fighting each other, and you enter alone and make a distress call for friends its not hard at all. But thats not the point, making NPCs tougher is wrong way, you can always fool computer player.

being in SOME pve fights doesn't mean you do pve constantly. and what if  i have no friends? what will i do then?

So, options in my opinion:
1. Make crafting cooldown more balanced, higher hour cap for crafting, or just remove the cap and instead give some short breaks (30sec) for making each item.

no cooldowns whatsoever. period.

2. Leave obtainable through encounters stuff that is high tier, with which you can PvP, but not the highest. So, bring back BA and nerf a bit CA/Ma MkII or buff BA. Avenger miniguns back and miniguns slightly nerfed or Avenger better. Dont know if its the right way, but i think highest tier stuff shouldnt be obtainable with that ease, it dont have to be craft the only way to obtain BA/Avengers, but can be something different, connected with PvE.

stop saying the word "nerf". just stop it.

3. Encounters should be limited in some way, frequency should decrease with amount of killed creatures and replenish by time. (there's no infinite number of soldiers over wastelands)

how about no?

4. (as for me, personal request ) make 7.62 craftable in easier way/nerf a bit m60 so Biggunners got some middle tier weapon (now its uberstuff or flamers).

nerf again? m60 is fine as it is. ammo relatively rare. middle tier? hmkay. m60 IS middle tier. you can't run with it now can you?

[Enguzrad]

Well it wouldn't be bad to make a suggestion to devs about balancing game economy but what exactly needs to be done?
I think most of you agree advanced workbenchs should stay in public places but only high tier items should require it. So exactly which items should be craftable on advanced WB? Advanced gunpowder, alloys and good metal parts should be craftable on normal workbench for sure. Items which will require advWB could be:

tesla armor, combat armors
FN FAL, XL70E3, P90, Sniper rifle, H&K CAWS, pancor jackhammer, .223 pistol
minigun, Improved flamer (maybe make LSW craftable on normal WB and M60 on advanced?, M60 is more powerful)
ext. cap. for laser rifle and plasma pistol, plasma rifle
Ripper, supersledge, mega power fist, super cattle prod, plasma granade
MFC, .223 FMJ, 5mm AP, 7.62mm, 14mm AP, rocket AP (here is problem, minigun and assault rifle needs lots of 5mm for bursts, but if you move it from advWB to normal WB, it would be unfair to other types of munition, maybe make 5mm more accessible from farming?)

This list is just from my point of view so if you have any reservation about it, post it.
Also crafting cooldown should be longer. I was thinking that CD cap time could determine from repair skill, for example 50% repair skill equals 1 hour, so on 300% you would have 6 hours crafting CD. (this is minimal CD i would suggest, it can be higher but it seems to me its enough.

About farming i don't know much but I were killing vault patrols, press gang and raiders with my friend so I know too its not so easy. They are not in small numbers, have lots of hp and when they crit it really hurts. We are killing them in turn base, hiding in ruins from their fire, still one time when they were alone and moving first, they teared us apart in two turns. So i dont know if devs should make farming easier but definitely they shouldn't make it even harder.

Another source of income is trading. here is problem right now, traders buy almost nothing, most of time they don't have nothing interesting and they don't have caps. If you would like players to more trade between themselves, they could trade ammo. If they would have stable access to ammo from crafting, farming, stealing they could trade spare ammo with other players. Ammo on traders would be scarce instead of caps, so there would be more caps for trading spare weapons to trade with other players for more ammo. I don't know if this could work, its just an idea.

About stealing I know nothing exept it piss me off when they do it to me .

[Giftless]

God, NO, NO and NO !
NO fucking buyable advanced workbenches ! This is not freaking WoW where you can buy ride turtles if you spend your whole life on it gathering virtual money or pay real money. Neither is this your personal crafting-factory simulator. This is FONLINE and it's solely the devs thing how they make the game. Do you really think they would have implemented this current system requiring you to fight/grind for AWBs if everyone could just go along buy himself one and dwell in their caves again like last seasons ??
 Every faction would buy itself a workbench, and the whole point of the current system, to get sissy crafters out of their basement, risking their asses and have their faction fight for their exclusive right to craft gear goes down the drain. You keep forgetting what the former name of Fonline was, It was FACTIONS MOD, not build-your-own-little-chinese-factory mod .
It is great like it is, I agree the cooldown is for the butt with all current limitations, but I'm sure devs already took notice that this feature sucks and will work over it. Maybe they will notice that nice idea of making the CD depending on your repair/science skill and implement it, who knows.

 Just don't start crying because your wet crafting dreams of crafting yourself some self-esteem have been crushed now, crafting isn't the main core of this game, and you got enough stuff left to waste for now, I'm sure, so you can very well make a break for some time. Just relax people, it's a matter of time, you pussies.

This would be a great argument except that people can camp gunrunners and craft 24/7 if they wanted to anyway. The purchase of the advanced bench would be a mere formality; it's more of a matter of accepting that this play-style exists and will exist regardless.

And if FOnline isn't a crafting simulator, why in god's name is there a 1 hour cooldown? Before casuals could craft and move on with the game, but with the current rules the devs have encouraged the use of craft alts like battery chickens and crafting each hour on the hour. If you're a no-lifer you even have more of a production advantage now than when there were no restrictions on crafting.

As a no-lifer, I can attest that the 1 hour cooldown has not stopped me. My main limiter is still running out of resources, and the only thing the cooldown really does is make the gameplay more jerky. Like if my friend Charlie C wants to go gecko hunting, I have to say "Not now Charlie. My cooldown timer just expired and I have to go craft two more plasma pistols." That's less character interaction and being chained to the basement right there.

[Spotty]

Like if my friend Charlie C wants to go gecko hunting, I have to say "Not now Charlie. My cooldown timer just expired and I have to go craft two more plasma pistols." That's less character interaction and being chained to the basement right there.

Best argument for removal of cooldown timer right there.

[TKs-KaBoom]

I'm not often ingame, but.....

Please tell us more about how the game needs fixin please I for one am hinging on every word of delicious wisdom, pearls of knowledge you will share with us....

[Giftless]

Ok, maybe i have overreacted a bit. But you say that fighting against each other is the core of the game - I think the core of this game is different, more complex than only fighting. We could've have Hinkley instead of every city instead if its only about fights. Again, infinite farming stuff is imbalanced. No cooldown for that. If its about fighting, lets get rid off crafting and farming, give everyone lots of stuff and make war simulation. The thing is to make market alive in future in this game, so those who play RP can interact with those who find themselves in PvP - wealthy trader can make deals with strong mercenaries.

Let me see if I can understand this. Infinite farming is unbalanced yet you can lose an infinite amount of equipment due to PK's and wasteland being harsh. Also let there be one-shot kills and no power armor so people can't retain equipment.

Here's how the game balancing should look, either:

High Resupply + High Difficulty (as it was, PvP and being able to easily restock on some items)
or Low Resupply + Lower Difficulty (more of an RPG with a questing focus)

It shouldn't be Low Resupply + High Difficulty with everyone running around in funny animal suits and doing hand-to-hand.

[Wiktor_pl]

Please tell us more about how the game needs fixin please I for one am hinging on every word of delicious wisdom, pearls of knowledge you will share with us....

I am from time to time, actually, not often as i used to some time ago ("often" is flexible word, i used to play 5h a day last session), but i am reading this forum a lot and still interested how to improve the game. I am waiting for, how to say it, better days of this game so i can enjoy it again as i did before. I'm bit bored of it already after playing 3 weeks after long break.

Giftless - well, you got right - less items makes us care about those we already have more which is bad for PvP, indeed. So, lets say: leave stuff that is average good, but good enough for PvP obtainable easily but make those that are really good hard to obtain.

So the only answer to this is to open crafting again for no-cooldown if we wont decrease farming advantages, so we have high-resupply + high-difficulty (which is demand by players). I would personally go for hard RP, less stuff, ammo is precious etc., but that its ok to have some fun as well that way.

being in SOME pve fights doesn't mean you do pve constantly. and what if  i have no friends? what will i do then?
no cooldowns whatsoever. period.
stop saying the word "nerf". just stop it.
how about no?

nerf again? m60 is fine as it is. ammo relatively rare. middle tier? hmkay. m60 IS middle tier. you can't run with it now can you?

as you see, i'm really trying to avoid word "nerf" - i will figure out other words to express that meaning.
about m60 - its bad that you can craft weapon without AWB but you cant craft ammo to this without AWB- either make it weapon doing less dmg (even though you cant run with it its still pretty kickass considering you dont have to go to ABW) and make 7.62 craftable in WB OR make both, weapon and ammo craftable at AWB. (i would rather go for first, since as i said, there's no middle tier weapon(i mean, fully usable since you cant craft 7.62 in normal BW)

[Enguzrad]

It shouldn't be Low Resupply + High Difficulty with everyone running around in funny animal suits and doing hand-to-hand.

Five pages of commentaries in one sentence.

The least dangerous way of obtaining items is stealing becouse when you succeed you don't have any trouble. When a character have 300% steal, he should succeed in 99% of attempts to steal becouse 300% is maximum so character is like god of thieves. If stealing is now nerfed, they should fix it.
Crafting is more dangerous due possible encounter with pks. But it doesn't requiere so much skill as stealing. CD should be higher and it should derive from repair skill as I suggested. Some items have too high material requirements but this should be discussed separately.
Farming is most dangerous becouse you can get killed. Npcs should have bigger weapon variability so when you farm for example 5mm ammo, you will loot other types of ammo too. Spare ammo can be traded.
Traders should have more caps becouse caps is mostly the only thing they can offer. If traders wouldn't have much ammo and drugs to sell, players could trade spare items between themselves. But this is currently not possible becouse there is apparently not enough players interested in trading with other players, everybody is just getting with alts what they need.

Nevermind, can anybody post a suggestion so devs can at least fix that ridiculous crafting cooldown or we are going to talk about same thing all over again?

[Wiktor_pl]

CD should be higher and it should derive from repair skill as I suggested.

True, true, good idea. Sadly, imagine "Repairman_no.12" alts. Seems like there will always be alts for everything, eh. Anyway, if we must have that crafting cooldown thats more balanced than 1h cd. for 3Int char which can barely make fire out of flint and 300% skill engineer.

[BOS Armorer]

sad indeed, as people like that don't even take the time to think of creative names. Just yesterday i saw people called blue1-4 in den, junktown, hub, and ncr waiting for companions...but that is possibly understandable, as they are rare. But things like tentalt(i shit you not that person does exist) are just stupid....alts for mining and crafting seem a bit understandable under these conditions, but overall its forcing people to keep making "alts, alts, and moar alts!"

[Enguzrad]

Anyway, if we must have that crafting cooldown thats more balanced than 1h cd. for 3Int char which can barely make fire out of flint and 300% skill engineer.

So you would like to determine CD cap from int too? Or you want to make skill cap based on characters s.p.e.c.i.a.l. ?
I know it's strange that 3 int char can have 300% skill engineer, but it's how this game currently works.

[Wiktor_pl]

It was my thoughts shortcut - i meant that crafters which has got 3Int cant even speak properly (can actually got 215% skill in repair if put all skills there) and nobody will make 3Int builds for craft - its inefficient, its rather build for soldier.
Cooldown should be based on Repair skill in my opinion, which is related to SPECIALs anyway (more INT more SP per lvl).

[T-888]

Cooldown should be based on Repair skill in my opinion

True, true, good idea. Sadly, imagine "Repairman_no.12" alts.

That's is something what has happened already, bad idea.

The crafting CD has to be the same for everyone, just longer than current or raise slower. There's nothing complicated about it.

Players have always been limited by some sort of "cooldown", you are talking about candy land that doesn't exist, never has, never will. The only difference is how the cooldown is experienced, as lexx said very precisely, finding ore in encounters or a global cooldown for ores in mines, or finding a weapon in encounter like gauss pistol, it's just experiencing the same timer in a different way. Let's say gauss pistol is craftable, need to adjust certain features, chances, values for it to be craftable at the same speed it can be found in encounters, it can be done. Just like it's possible to adjust ores in random encounters to be found at such a difficulty it will match current time needed to make certain amount of items.

By cooldown don't understand only the raw amount of minutes added upon crafting an item, but also the time needed to obtain resources for it, movement between locations (currently more time is added, since we have to move to public places that workbench is relatively far), obtaining blueprints, it could be completing a quest for a rare resource, finding encounters etc. etc. time consumptions. That all just adds together and make the total time needed to get the final product- item.

Some useful information, i just see some incorrect information on this topic. Like this.

no cooldowns whatsoever. period.

It doesn't work that way my friend.

[Jack Wagon]

Blah blah blah PvP bullies, blah blah blah PKers blah blah blah blah carebears.


I think they should ease up on the timer a little bit, like maybe 4-5 metal armor an hour is reasonable. 4-5 metal armors can go quick if you do a lot of PvP. I would say on average the PvP character has 2 characters on map for fast log that is enough to supply at least 2 characters, then to regear if they both die in a fight.

I am too much of a PvP ape and never understand the desire to do nothing but craft and fill bases with gear and e-mote in NCR all day. I for one don't want to spend my entire day trying to craft and gather gear for a fight I just want to spend no more than an hour get a few armors and weapons stimpacks for the next TC or reno action. The guys who are hardcore PvPers such as myself, we do action, get some half broken gear as a reward. If we lose and die with our gear, we don't want to spend 2-3 days preparing for one shitty 5 minute action, we want more action and can't get enough of it so I think its best if cool downs are a tad bit more relaxed.

PvP apes want to town control and kill other teams in reno, and we don't want this to be a pain in the ass to resupply our characters. PvE and crafting is boring to us there is no challenge it is not same experience. Killing some stupid AI is nothing compared to trying to kill a player.

You see the thing with PvP is you don't die and quit after losing one flight being a good PvP player is all about trial and error, we try out new builds remake characters, we die we regear we are not the problem when it comes to hoarding. We actually lose a lot of gear and don't have bases packed with shit, so why limit and nerf our ability to get gear? If you make getting gear take super long and pain in the ass to get nobody is going to show up to fight and risk good gear and it makes for less interesting PvP. Then the factions who don't want to risk good gear are going to get stomped quit then the dominate faction is going to get bored, I think this kind of a shit direction for this game. Then Pretty soon there is going to be nothing but NCR emoters and there well be nothing left for the petty ape than to spray e-moters in NCR and that well be the best PvP there well be if they keep making shit frustrating.