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Author Topic: Market is going BOOM!  (Read 9365 times)

TKs-KaBoom

  • The Usual Suspect (according to Surf)
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Re: Market is going BOOM!
« Reply #30 on: July 24, 2012, 03:20:59 am »

I kinda like the base reprisal idea, anyone remember xcom?  If you made too much of a nuisance of yourself to the aliens they would come knocking on your door. Xcom Apocalypse btw was way under rated even if it only felt three quarters finished.
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Re: Market is going BOOM!
« Reply #31 on: July 24, 2012, 05:10:52 am »

Moreover, after short trip to the toilet before going to sleep, there were some thoughts that came to my mind. Not sure if its right topic for that(:D), but i will share it anyway. I think that in this game RP should take biggest part - but its impossible to make it while you're allowed to use only your imagination, not any tools. You see, Jovanka idea of Hub was the spirit of game i would like to play.
Game should get to the point where PLAYERS (not GMs) are capable to, for ex. expand their own bases if they want into some kind of public places (some sort of cities) where everyone can come, but there are laws that Gang which own the place set. They can place NPC traders and guards, tell them how to behave, set quests etc.maybe even add some maps, like buildings. I am sure that these kind of cities would be much more interesting for defending/attacking by other players or just for idle or making quests than actual cities, because they will be managed in much active way than devs are doing (devs are only few, and busy other stuff, while players gang will keep their city clean). RP is dying because we're blocked by game mechanics. Some of fancy GM magic should be available for gangs (of course, in reasonable way).

Rat is right, there's no way NPC can beat PC without GM supervision.

It's kind of tough to roleplay when you're always grinding back lost equipment. To keep RPers in costume, you'd probably need some kind of equipment spawn--one set per person at any given time and directly related to the character they're playing.
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Re: Market is going BOOM!
« Reply #32 on: July 24, 2012, 10:20:19 am »

I dont think i have ever played any game where you could exploit so many things with alts. Personally i never make alts. Although other players have super strong pvp build together with excelent crafter and i have only my one weaker all purpose char, it is still more like cheating for me.
Pissed of npcs dont have to attack just bases, they could also attack towns under gangs control and for alts without base, npcs can hunt them in towns which are not in war with their faction. So for example enclave farmer would be safe only in places where enclave is hated.
But if there is no better way to limit farming and people will call for limiting it, it will lead to less lootable npcs and i dont like it. I just want to get that half broken minigun from supermutant which turned my armor in rags. When npc stops dropping their equipment its like they dont exist. You could just erase them right away and let players join npc fanctions, take equipment from them and do missions for them. This way when players farm BoS, they actually farm on other players which are not so dumb like npcs.
Towns run by players would be great and I think someone has already tried turn base into public place.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2012, 10:39:59 am by Enguzrad »
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Re: Market is going BOOM!
« Reply #33 on: July 24, 2012, 11:26:23 am »

I dont think i have ever played any game where you could exploit so many things with alts. Personally i never make alts. Although other players have super strong pvp build together with excelent crafter and i have only my one weaker all purpose char, it is still more like cheating for me.
It is not impossible to make one character and play whole session since crafting requirements are so low, but people are still making ultraPVP builds - ok, they want to be fighters so they shouldnt make alts, RP - but alts will be always, sadly, we cant bound one character per IP since there's proxy etc. The only resonable solution i can think of is "to make character, you have to present his history background, write a story about him which explain why is he build in that way he is" and that should be confirmed by GMs and then you can get to the game (idea from Ultima), so then no chars type "crafterBG" "slut1" "mule1" "taxi" will appear and it will take some effort to get character which will minimalize alting (or make alt makers creative) but i think we got too low playerbase for such moves - it needs hard work of GMs and it would make server population even less than it is now.
Pissed of npcs dont have to attack just bases, they could also attack towns under gangs control and for alts without base, npcs can hunt them in towns which are not in war with their faction. So for example enclave farmer would be safe only in places where enclave is hated.
Well, it would be hard to implement to set NPC "bounty hunters" for every player that is hated to wander around wastelands, and there's already "shoot on sight" when you enter encounter or enter base with "hated" reputation.
But if there is no better way to limit farming and people will call for limiting it, it will lead to less lootable npcs and i dont like it. I just want to get that half broken minigun from supermutant which turned my armor in rags. When npc stops dropping their equipment its like they dont exist. You could just erase them right away and let players join npc fanctions, take equipment from them and do missions for them. This way when players farm BoS, they actually farm on other players which are not so dumb like npcs.
Ok, maybe making NPC non-lootable is a bit drastic, but encounters should be limited (idk, lets say rarity of meeting some kind of NPC is increasing as you kill more and more soldiers (Unity got 200 soldiers around wastes, and %chance to meet them is high, but while you kill 100 the % is decreasing and replenish with time), also, there shouldn't be Highest Quality Stuff available that easy way - so, if not making npcs unlootable, then the items they drop should be nerfed to something good, but not best (for ex. nerf Minigun and make blueprints for Avenger minigun, which will be as good as Minigun is now; add Brotherhood Armor blueprints(not implemented as i remember?) and make it much better than CA, CA little worse and MA MKII as well). I'm not playing often this session, but i got a feeling that not much is interested in crafting ammo, cause its much much faster to farm it. They should drop less ammo.

Towns run by players would be great and I think someone has already tried turn base into public place.
Yes, actually, i was thinking about it lot of time ago, bunker base is great place with mines and E-parts (it was session ago when i was more active) but again - you cant do a shit without GM supervision, and they're not part of the gang and they're few, interested in RP only from time to time - so why dont we have on our own territories have some powers of GM.
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Re: Market is going BOOM!
« Reply #34 on: July 24, 2012, 11:55:30 am »

Mostly I agree with you. History for every created character is interesting idea and increasing rarity of encounters sounds better then no loot at all. Though I exactly dont know how much ammo we get from farming, my group always have enough which is strange in comparsion to wasteland around where should ammo be scacre.
But in my opinion it is not so hard to make npc bounty hunters. However this question can answer only someone from development team.
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TKs-KaBoom

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Re: Market is going BOOM!
« Reply #35 on: July 24, 2012, 02:18:40 pm »

Hey is it just me or am i really hearing (as in reading) some stupid shit right now?  You are NOT Stan Lee and this isn't the story of the Amazing Spiderfag.  I just want to go on record now that if the devs get hit in the head with a fire extinguisher and because of brain trauma actually implement this ridiculous bullshit I am the first one out the door before I get trampled by whats left of the semi sane playerbase (that are right on the edge of 86ing this pos btw) leaving this rpg idea of a shitfuck.  Contrary to popular believe all opionions are not equally valuable, some people are just fucking stupid.  This is fallout or should at least try to pretend to be as much.  This is not some in depth cosplay, it may be for YOU, but 99% of the people that play this don't want anything to do with your derp doh hug emote take a sip of beer /emote blah blah blah

Wait a minute.... actually Jovanka does nvm.

reducing encounter frequency?  WTF is wrong with you people?  I think your ideal game would consist of you traveling the wasteland for days with a pointy stick and only ever coming across rats and radscorpions.  Is that really your idea of a good time?  or fun?
« Last Edit: July 24, 2012, 02:22:45 pm by TKs-KaBoom »
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It's all really about suppression of dissension, consensus through censorship.  Whether through extermination of those who have different or conflicting viewpoints or subtle spin of available media.  If there is only one opinion left, it must be right, right?
Re: Market is going BOOM!
« Reply #36 on: July 24, 2012, 02:45:43 pm »

Ok, how about this. What is the player's target in this game? Looks like it is pvp, pve and town control. So this three things are fun. People want to do fun as often as is possible. So lets minimize boring things like gathering lots of equipment and leveling your character. Leveling should be faster and equipment should be much easier to get so we can enjoy more fun as pvp, pve and town control. Is that better?
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Man of Steal

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Re: Market is going BOOM!
« Reply #37 on: July 24, 2012, 02:55:56 pm »

Ok, how about this. What is the player's target in this game? Looks like it is pvp, pve and town control. So this three things are fun. People want to do fun as often as is possible. So lets minimize boring things like gathering lots of equipment and leveling your character. Leveling should be faster and equipment should be much easier to get so we can enjoy more fun as pvp, pve and town control. Is that better?

Blasphemy!
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Re: Market is going BOOM!
« Reply #38 on: July 24, 2012, 03:07:06 pm »

Blasphemy!

Yeah, it's just another extreme.   :D
Maybe it would be better just make some little changes. Like determine crafting cooldown according to repair skill (of course higher then just 1 hour), every npc lootable but dropping a little less ammo, make PA available by perk which can be learned from BoS/Enclave when you join them and have enough reputation from doing missions, make traders in town buy more stuff then just small guns and their price for buy and sell should fit to their amount.
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Man of Steal

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Re: Market is going BOOM!
« Reply #39 on: July 24, 2012, 03:09:59 pm »

Yeah, it's just another extreme.   :D
Maybe it would be better just make some little changes. Like determine crafting cooldown according to repair skill (of course higher then just 1 hour), every npc lootable but dropping a little less ammo, make PA available by perk which can be learned from BoS/Enclave when you join them and have enough reputation from doing missions, make traders in town buy more stuff then just small guns and their price for buy and sell should fit to their amount.

That is not bad idea, but each cool down should be relavant to the skill requirement. Like science cool down for energy, repair for big/small guns and armor cool down and of course doctor for drug crafting cool down.

I was only making joke anyways, but I do not disagree with making things a little bit easier than what they are now. Pre-wipe shops (NO BB's ACCEPTED) and a better balance cool down for crafting would be good. Also stealing back to the way it was before the update as well. I think shops should do opposite and not take 5mm ap MFC and rockets but take everything else like mouser ammo and shot gun shells etc. Because that is the issue yes flooding the shops with 5mm, so why not make it where these are player trading currency and no shops take this stuff. So if somebody wants to make theif and have 100,000 rounds of 5mm they well trade it to players and not shops. This makes for good trade for players becuase players need stock piles of this stuff to make leveling easier.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2012, 03:32:03 pm by Man of Steal »
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Re: Market is going BOOM!
« Reply #40 on: July 24, 2012, 03:19:03 pm »

Ok, how about this. What is the player's target in this game? Looks like it is pvp, pve and town control. So this three things are fun. People want to do fun as often as is possible. So lets minimize boring things like gathering lots of equipment and leveling your character. Leveling should be faster and equipment should be much easier to get so we can enjoy more fun as pvp, pve and town control. Is that better?
I would love that, but lets be real.. i dont think this will ever happen
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DeputyDope

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Re: Market is going BOOM!
« Reply #41 on: July 24, 2012, 03:32:28 pm »

Hey is it just me or am i really hearing (as in reading) some stupid shit right now?  You are NOT Stan Lee and this isn't the story of the Amazing Spiderfag.  I just want to go on record now that if the devs get hit in the head with a fire extinguisher and because of brain trauma actually implement this ridiculous bullshit I am the first one out the door before I get trampled by whats left of the semi sane playerbase (that are right on the edge of 86ing this pos btw) leaving this rpg idea of a shitfuck.  Contrary to popular believe all opionions are not equally valuable, some people are just fucking stupid.  This is fallout or should at least try to pretend to be as much.  This is not some in depth cosplay, it may be for YOU, but 99% of the people that play this don't want anything to do with your derp doh hug emote take a sip of beer /emote blah blah blah

Wait a minute.... actually Jovanka does nvm.

reducing encounter frequency?  WTF is wrong with you people?  I think your ideal game would consist of you traveling the wasteland for days with a pointy stick and only ever coming across rats and radscorpions.  Is that really your idea of a good time?  or fun?

this. you couldn't have said it better.

i think rp-ers should rp and stop making retarded suggestions about PvP and PvE. because most the time they have no fucking idea what they're talking about anyway.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2012, 03:35:58 pm by DeputyDope »
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Re: Market is going BOOM!
« Reply #42 on: July 24, 2012, 03:48:02 pm »

Maybe should the best base available - vault - have an advanced workbench, becouse half of items needs it and if their purpose is to draw people out to interact with each other, it fails in it anyway. But it don't look that players trade with each other much. Every one have enough weapons, armor and ammo, the only thing which no one has enough is caps (exept factions with some town under control maybe). So how about that npc traders would have more caps, but not much ammo, so players would sell spare weapons and armors to npcs, gets caps, and for caps would trade ammo with other players.
And some low tier smg with 9mm ammo would be nice :D.
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Kool-Aid

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Re: Market is going BOOM!
« Reply #43 on: July 24, 2012, 03:54:52 pm »

... Contrary to popular believe all opionions are not equally valuable, some people are just fucking stupid.  This is fallout or should at least try to pretend to be as much.  This is not some in depth cosplay, it may be for YOU, but 99% of the people that play this don't want anything to do with your derp doh hug emote take a sip of beer /emote blah blah blah
....
reducing encounter frequency?  WTF is wrong with you people?  I think your ideal game would consist of you traveling the wasteland for days with a pointy stick and only ever coming across rats and radscorpions.  Is that really your idea of a good time?  or fun?
Holy crap, that's like everything I ever thought about RPers channelled in one simple outraged, yet elegant post. You are a genius ! *claps* Wannuh go vith mee ?
Yea, if anything the chance of encountering stuff and players should be increased. I get this bad feeling that to find good encounters, the worst thing I can do is tagging OD
Yeah, it's just another extreme.   :D
Maybe it would be better just make some little changes. Like determine crafting cooldown according to repair skill (of course higher then just 1 hour), every npc lootable but dropping a little less ammo, make PA available by perk which can be learned from BoS/Enclave when you join them and have enough reputation from doing missions, make traders in town buy more stuff then just small guns and their price for buy and sell should fit to their amount.

I agree on everything but the PA suggestion and less loot thing. I remember those times meeting immortal PKs in APAs around hub. That was rather... a dull experience. The repair suggestion is pretty good, it would make putting repair over 150 actually useful. Dont' really know about less loot though. All the encounters were already badly downgraded this season.
Two examples: During the Last seasons .223 rounds were incredibly easy farmable. Instead of however making it just appear less often by introducing the new .22 rounds as a side-ammo, it has been completely replace by the latter thus making it unfarmable. One extreme exchanged by another.
A lot of NPCs that carry now hunting rifles, greasers and 10mm pistols were once holding AR's, 10mm smgs, 14mm pistols and needlers. Some of those weapons are practically non-existent now if it comes to usage. Who would want to craft a shitty 10mm smg anyway? 
Soo... if anything, they should upgrade the encounters back, instead of decreasing the joy of PVE and eradicating whole weapon types.
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Kool-Aid

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Re: Market is going BOOM!
« Reply #44 on: July 24, 2012, 04:12:18 pm »

Maybe should the best base available - vault - have an advanced workbench, becouse half of items needs it and if their purpose is to draw people out to interact with each other, it fails in it anyway.
No, the idea of linking crafting to PVPing is actually a great one. This thing would only hurt newbs and poorer players, crafter no-lifes and gangs would be again sitting in their virtual basements all day The only bad thing about advanced workbench is that practically every useful craftable shit needs one. If only top high-tier weapons/armors would be craftable at AWBs, just fine, but why isn't a simple WB enough for crafting let's say 14mm pistols, needlers, SPCs, mkII armors and dynamite?
Make more stuff craftable at WB, and in return remove the safe advanced WB at gunrunners. I think that would be the optimum for what dev's tried to achieve with the new crafting system.
Needless to say, I'd love to pwn bambis, gorgons, gn13 and some other crybaby crafters' asses at mariposa just to step on their hat and start RPing a CS1.6 kidso killing all his opponents solely, that would summon a big smile in my face. Just imagine the batshitrage against pks ... bawww ... mhh tasty
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Go to Hell, infidel
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