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[Jytz]

Crafting timer was in the game since ever. We even tried various forms of timers already, see what T-888 wrote a few posts above. If you have a timer to craft items or a timer to find items in encounters- technically it doesn't make a difference, both are timers, you just experience them in a different way.

Well its one extreme to another this type of change brings about frustrations. Its just we had an unlimited crafting timer and then it gets changed to 2 metal armors an hour, that is a huge change. I have no issues with the timers really, but its just strange to bring about such an extreme change.

Another thing is if you don't want us to use thieves to get our gear and super stims may I suggest a change to the super stim recipe and bring back the way shops worked from last wipe? This is another very frustrating thing that we can't trade when gun runners doesn't take 3/4 of things that are farmable.

[T-888]

Well its one extreme to another this type of change brings about frustrations. Its just we had an unlimited crafting timer and then it gets changed to 2 metal armors an hour, that is a huge change. I have no issues with the timers really, but its just strange to bring about such an extreme change.

That will balance out after some time, not so long as you might think.

Another thing is if you don't want us to use thieves to get our gear and super stims may I suggest a change to the super stim recipe and bring back the way shops worked from last wipe? This is another very frustrating thing that we can't trade when gun runners doesn't take 3/4 of things that are farmable.

Make a suggestion, and those who have shitloads of SS and 5mm AP ammo, that will balance out with time too, and let's say SS and 5mm AP ammo are going to be valuable items, harder to obtain. Must play and see how it turns out.

technically it doesn't make a difference, both are timers, you just experience them in a different way.

To point out the obvious, i think current timer and system is better than to just grind encounters like it's done for lockers, wouldn't want to do the same for resources.

[avv]

What does that mean? Gauss pistol rarity is regulated by it's scarcity, it's a rare item and powerful one, exotic item that involves higher risk/reward when fighting with it.

It means that the maximum output of stuff is limited by how fast an individual player manages to hoard them. The better logistics, the more stuff. Time available will always measure the winner if everyone crafts at same speed, but if players aren't limited by cooldown someone who is effective and smart has the chance to hoard faster than someone who has more raw free time.

Invalid argument, there's always is going to be some kind of CD, time needed to gain items, if you could get all equipment for a month in 1 day, that wouldn't be better, even worse. The more equipment you have the less worth it has, if everyone was running around in BA's and avengers only, and those items were too easy to get, no risk/no reward. No point to sell them, trade them, no value in them.

So far we haven't reached this point ever in the history of the game. Except maybe during prewipe madness.

you don't understand, it's the same CD only in a different way, you just waste x time to get y items, no matter what you implement. Average time to find x encounters can be calculated, same thing for lockers in encounters, it's just your fooling yourself.

But if it's the same cd, what difference does it make? Crafting cooldown is not fun, this hidden gathering CD is more fun so isn't the logical solution in terms of enjoyable gameplay to choose the hidden one?
 

By this logic, it would be much better if there was infinitive amount of resources in mines, with no cooldown for crafting, nothing whatsover, only time needed to haul ore in a dog mule and go to work bench, the shortest "cooldown" possible.

Unsafe mines have a risk of meeting other players.

What this has to do with item availability?

It has to do with fun. Item availability can't be balanced because it's always player-dependent. Some have more free time, some don't. Unless you want to regulate the ammount of time every player can play daily, item availability is a joke.
Besides, if something is simply unbearably boring to craft then only the most hardened players will do it and rest will moan because they don't have those items and get pwned. Last session I didn't craft a single BA until the cooldowns got more reasonable. The grind wasn't simply worth it, some still did it but did they have fun doing it?

[Trokanis]

Crafting timer is one thing.  Combine said timer with in some cases lack of mats, an the rest of cases the need to trek halfway across the damn world to craft things of any real value and it adds up to absurdity.  I don't want to be locked up in a damn cave, I don't mind a crafting timer, so long as I can get more than 5 f'n electronic parts per trip to make even the most basic of energy items.  (that is just an example not the only reason). 

If this truly is just an attempt to increase player interaction it really won't work, because the players make that interaction damn near impossible.  Even if people come running back (which probably won't happen) all it will do is increase the amount of grief people will have to deal with to craft.  There was a damn Thief noob parked in Gunrunners earlier, sure makes me want to go there and have to open a bunch of screens to craft the stuff I busted my ass to get, yup....  In this game player interaction boils down to, Kill or be killed, Troll or be Trolled, Grief or be Griefed, and the VERY rare, lets actually have a conversation in a public place, which almost always leads to another player coming up and doing any of the previous list. 

The only thing wrong with easy access to 10mm SMGs in the previous seasons was what the players caused.  Removing them from lower leveled areas didn't stop any of the things associated with them, (shop bursters, bluesuit grid campers, ext.) it was just another punishment to decent players based on the actions of noobs.  (and not the only reason why the current crafting system is flawed) 

P.S.  Rework repairing please.

[codave]

Crafting timer was in the game since ever. We even tried various forms of timers already, see what T-888 wrote a few posts above. If you have a timer to craft items or a timer to find items in encounters- technically it doesn't make a difference, both are timers, you just experience them in a different way.

Are blueprints timers?  I think so, based on the above post.  If we want to craft Combat Armor, we have to either gather the caps to buy it, or take the time to grind the blueprints.  So far my timer on crafting combat armor is 6 months (and counting).  Same with P90's, Buffout (HQ Chem Comps?), etc.

Assuming I had a CA blueprint, I also have to contend with Advanced Workbenches.  I would consider this a timer as well.  Or at least a limitation.

Then on top of that, there is the global resource depletion.  Not to mention HQ Chem Comps again, or Uranium Ore.  How long is the timer on those items?  When will they stop being depleted?

And now a crafting timer.

It's not the fact that a timer exists that is the problem.  It's how many.  Using the definition Lexx used, I can probably count more than those 4.

It isn't always the change that is the problem.  It's that sometimes the changes don't play nice with one another.

[avv]

To be honest the combination of blueprints and crafting cooldown just provided the following: it's best to make crafter alt for each blueprint. Say I craft a combat armor. Timer goes almost to the max. Now it's better to relog to combat helmet crafter instead of waiting the hour. So it's best to divide blueprints to several alts to bypass the timer when crafting multiple items. The cooldown also encourages everyone to find more and more blueprints, because it's best to have 2 combat armor crafters because that means you can craft them twice as fast. So happy hunting and levelling.

All this cooldown does is to make things more time consuming and complex in bad way.

[DeputyDope]

5 f'n electronic parts per trip to make even the most basic of energy items.

*10.

P.S.  Rework repairing please.

repair is fine as it is. what? you want a cooldown on repairing also?

i agree with everything avv says.

[codave]

To be honest the combination of blueprints and crafting cooldown just provided the following: it's best to make crafter alt for each blueprint. Say I craft a combat armor. Timer goes almost to the max. Now it's better to relog to combat helmet crafter instead of waiting the hour. So it's best to divide blueprints to several alts to bypass the timer when crafting multiple items. The cooldown also encourages everyone to find more and more blueprints, because it's best to have 2 combat armor crafters because that means you can craft them twice as fast. So happy hunting and levelling.

All this cooldown does is to make things more time consuming and complex in bad way.

Hooray, more alts.  They may as well re-implement the limitation on crafting professions while they're at it, just to round everything out.

[jacky.]

repair - mr fixit support perk doesnt work.

[T-888]

It means that the maximum output of stuff is limited by how fast an individual player manages to hoard them. The better logistics, the more stuff. Time available will always measure the winner if everyone crafts at same speed, but if players aren't limited by cooldown someone who is effective and smart has the chance to hoard faster than someone who has more raw free time.

But if it's the same cd, what difference does it make? Crafting cooldown is not fun, this hidden gathering CD is more fun so isn't the logical solution in terms of enjoyable gameplay to choose the hidden one?

Players have always been limited by some sort of "cooldown", you are talking about candy land that doesn't exist, never has, never will. The only difference is how the cooldown is experienced, as lexx said very precisely, finding ore in encounters or a global cooldown for ores in mines, or finding a weapon in encounter like gauss pistol, it's just experiencing the same timer in a different way. Let's say gauss pistol is craftable, need to adjust certain features, chances, values for it to be craftable at the same speed it can be found in encounters, it can be done. Just like it's possible to adjust ores in random encounters to be found at such a difficulty it will match current time needed to make certain amount of items.

By cooldown don't understand only the raw amount of minutes added upon crafting an item, but also the time needed to obtain resources for it, movement between locations (currently more time is added, since we have to move to public places that workbench is relatively far), obtaining blueprints, it could be completing a quest for a rare resource, finding encounters etc. etc. time consumptions. That all just adds together and make the total time needed to get the final product- item. That's how item availability is controlled, player-dependant, yes, i say availability is flexible due to that. Someone who grinds more/spends time, no matter what system he will gain more, can't invent a new wheel, it's already there.

So far we haven't reached this point ever in the history of the game. Except maybe during prewipe madness.

Remove all time consumptions and that will happen.

Unsafe mines have a risk of meeting other players.

Bluesuit CW alts in comparison to a potential force of players that are able to defend themselves. It's what they/you are doing while you meet them, if you are going to carry some iron ore none cares ... if 5 newly crafted MAmk2, that's a different story.

It has to do with fun. Item availability can't be balanced because it's always player-dependent. Some have more free time, some don't. Unless you want to regulate the ammount of time every player can play daily, item availability is a joke.
Besides, if something is simply unbearably boring to craft then only the most hardened players will do it and rest will moan because they don't have those items and get pwned. Last session I didn't craft a single BA until the cooldowns got more reasonable. The grind wasn't simply worth it, some still did it but did they have fun doing it?

Item availability is the difficulty to obtain items, including crafting cooldown, simple solution is to ease it up and there's no problem, if it's too harsh then it encourages abusing/byapssing/cheating, call it whatever you want, but when it's reasonable it shouldn't provoke players to extremes. If it's too harsh, then let's say the cooldown could be experienced differently, like special encounter system that isn't abusable, gauss pistols are relatively hard to get, rare, that is player-dependant and it is controlled.

So if you have some mad ideas about ideal crafting systems, go ahead, share them, none is forcing you to keep quite.

[FrankenStone]

man t888 u hanging on devs balls , i dont think that this CD bringback is some nice idea but who cares at the end of the day , maybe they change it at next update or not nobody knows the only things were im not happy about is to change something completely and then after some time change it back to the old that makes no sense to me

[T-888]

I do not hang on developer balls. I'd call it common sense.

i dont think that this CD bringback is some nice idea

It is, need to adjust mats for certain items, relax the crafting cooldown itself and it should be pretty fine and cool.

[FrankenStone]

i dont think so , nothing was wrong with crafting ... like others said here it was always a timer on it because first u need to get materials then u need to get acsess to some adv. workbench and at the last step only was the crafting , with cd all this doesnt bring any effort now its cheaper and better to trade some items u have farmed or from the glow for other items u would have normally crafted without cd . dont forget that bp thing ...

1. BPs - pain in da ass to get some good BPs
2. Gather Material - pain in da ass if u are alone and esspecially for the HQ things , when u are alone !
3. Turn Gathered Stuff into some usefull Materials - pan in da ass , so or so , the first option u have is to deliver the GR package and this will take one day if u start from zero karma (40 minutes or 30minutes timeout i think) or u go to mariposa or toxiccave or at sierra and all 3 are dangerous places ...
4. Crafting - only three words about cooldown - pain in da ass

[T-888]

1. Not intended the current fashion in what they are currently obtained, blueprints added to glow, and with time will be added to quests.
2. Disagree. Playing alone leaves you at a disadvantage(it's been like that forever, just like timer/cooldowns), as an mmo it's supposed that you work together with other players to achieve things ingame, being self-sufficient alone isn't as easy as it was before = player interaction(i know someone will say abuses/cheats but sometimes there's just no need for that if your playing in a faction and gather everything together, just from my own experience). Survival game, stick together or die divided.

(most of that is obtained through sciencing various items from player loot with a max science char, but you see we have 1 that kind of character for the big faction we have)
3. Organize protection, again working together with other players = player interaction. If someone is too lazy to do that, maybe he doesn't deserve the items.
4.

like others said here it was always a timer on it

The crafting system isn't finished in that case, same as traders, the timer was too low in my opinion. By the way i said that.

It's funny how people want to leave this game because their playing it alone, then it's too hard, rather than to adapt. Don't need to be uber-leet PvP ape to just stick together with some players and support each other when it's possible to do so. Ever heard about SQ lumberjack faction? They have mad skills in a way.

Not the game for casuals i guess. The point i don't think anything should be relaxed/made easier because a single player has problems with it.

The only real grind i experienced this wipe was the blueprints, everything else not so much.

[Grimmi]

Now is fucking craft cooldown
i can craft now sometinh about 4 dynamites on hour
PLEASE improve this time to 5 hour sounds be GOOOD