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[Trokanis]

More alting shouldn't be the answer.  With all the other combined 'timers' (blueprint finding, gathering issues, workbench requirements) why add more? 

Off topic about repair.

*Repair isn't fine especially combined with the crafting nerf, the need to have several of the Exact same item just to be able to repair it back to full is insane.  Maybe if you had 4 Combat Armor mk IIs, or p90's spawning outta your butt, but to even keep a damn Desert Eagle up is 30 mins+ of time or more since you can't even craft 2 expanded mag Desert Eagles without waiting.*

[Adestan]

New update is comming or what? 

[Uftak]

New update is comming or what? 

Yep, they gonna add alt-limit.

[BOS Armorer]

Oh ffs let the crafters fucking craft!  first you have to grind out horrible bps, then mine shitless.  Go to an ADv work bench make hq mats.  Then finallly make your fucking goofy gear....   I say there is enough monotony in the whole process to begin with, now you need an army of alts?  Fucking dumb.  Not just dumb, fucking dumb....

This was bad enough pre-wipe with 2 hours of cooldown, but now everything adds more cooldown, AND all of this other stuff. Someone needs either a lot of cash or a week of nonstop grinding to be able to just get blueprints, I have never yet had access to the advanced workbenches, and now there is a strict crafting cooldown? The advanced workbenches were rarely enough used, and those who wouldn't risk Mariposa saved up all their crafting to do it all at once before they lost access to it. Now that's not even possible? And why are AC trolls still running about? While definetely adding improvements, this update still disappoints me...

[Tomowolf]

Well , also we got only 4 adv workbenches which we can use, but two of them are camped 24/7 by pks, one needs to get anti-rad thingies and in one you need to run two days in a row with suitcases to get reputation, so fun.
Best thing is that even when we join (bah BoS quest is like bugged since 2011?) BoS or Enclave, they do not have advanced workbench, that is just hilarous shit.

[BOS Armorer]

I'm thinking the exactly same. Was gonna make a thread about it but might aswell write it here.

Some items are simply pain in the ass to get, so players choose to abuse them.
Example: nuka cola. It's horribly slow to craft, which was reported and explained. Also its price remained the same as last session, while caps farming was made 10x slower. So nothing was done about the "fair" ways to get nuka. Then there's exploit where nuka could be received rather easily, someone reported it and the exploit disappeared immediately while nothing was done about the way nuka could be received with normal methods. Only tc players have easy access to nuka cola.

There was also a way to get cigarettes for free, but someone reported that too, it got "fixed" and now nobody except tc players can get cigarettes because the fields don't regenerate and it's still damn slow to get even if they would.

Do you realize that his kind of game management simply encourages us players to stay hush hush about abuses?

Another example: enclave isn't so abusive anymore. Well, it is still but guess what? I'm not going to report it before there is some fun and balanced feature to receive avengers and gatling lasers. If the exploit was reported, all that would happen is that the abuse would be shut down but normal method to get those guns would be nowhere to be seen and we players would have to figure a new abuse.

Also 5mm, rockets and superstims from BOS are supposedly harder to get. Not exactly, still exploitable but I'm not going to report that either before there is fun and balanced way to get those items.

So please: Don't shut down abuses before there is fun normal way, accessible to everyone to receive items in question. Don't try to force teamplay, encourage it but don't force it. Don't try to limit players with cooldowns, let players be their own limit. And don't, for heaven's sake make farming more time consuming, like was done with junk. It can be made more dangerous so that players have to risk better equipment or have to travel to pk-infested zones.

Amen, brother. I liked fallout the way it was last session. We are certainly walking on new ground here, but not in the right way at all. I sadly have to agree with all the complaints here. Abuses are being used because non-abusive methods are unfair, crafting was hard enough without this shit, and I think it would still be balanced if you could loot EVERYTHING you killed. Guards are fucking looters, they take anything, let it be lootable, but refreshed like every in-game midnight. And ares mutants, give them more ammo so you dont have an army of unarmed mutants, but let them be lootable. I want a bozar :c It redefines BG completely

[BOS Armorer]

I forsee a time when finding a lone Enclave patrol will be called an 'exploit', and 'fixed'.

I think it IS an exploit. If you actually played Fallout 2, you can see they mean business. You don't go farming them unless you are THE shit. They always travel in groups, and unless you are godlike they RAPED you, and I'm sorry but this gear control seems stupid. Overall with everything....in Fallout 2, everything that made sense to loot was lootable. And how can the devs take out pulse rifles or power armors or vindicators and call them too cheap to implement, when we have AC trolls running around avoiding fire from town guards and anything else, lvl 1 noobs wearing combat armor mark 2 and holding avengers/m60s etc because they found lucky encounters, or people raping everyone with mausers and 10mm pistols? I was followed to an encounter once by someone who shall remain nameless, he shot me in the head for 80 damage knockout despite my chmk2 with a 10mm pistol. Then did 100+ eye shot. And no, it wasn't AP, it was JHP. So at least give all our gear back to make fallout what it was. With all of these updates and everything happening, it feels like you are just trying to censor the game...Anyone else feel this way?

[BOS Armorer]

Armor looting completely changes the value. It makes crafting armors poointless, as people can indeed have carpets of combat armors by just finding a couple encounters. But it is all in horrible condition, so I guess that still leaves armor crafters to be SOMEWHAT useful. Not trying to advertise it or anything, but take a look at FOnline: australia. No matter how hard, every item is craftable with certain skills. Even the power armors. You say it would be too cheap to have PKs in power armor running around? How about CA trolls with camk2 minigunning everyone? There should be power armor training perk, to be able to loot/equip it. Requirments should be high to limit it, idk like 175% repair, 225% science, Member of bos/enclave, 1500+ rep with such? Just a suggestion, but that would be better, with all these other items.

[Eternauta]

Requirments should be high to limit it, idk like 175% repair, 225% science, Member of bos/enclave, 1500+ rep with such?

Which means alt.

[avv]

Players have always been limited by some sort of "cooldown", you are talking about candy land that doesn't exist, never has, never will. The only difference is how the cooldown is experienced, as lexx said very precisely, finding ore in encounters or a global cooldown for ores in mines, or finding a weapon in encounter like gauss pistol, it's just experiencing the same timer in a different way.

So if we had that hidden timer previously during this session, where do we suddenly need the crafting cooldown?

By cooldown don't understand only the raw amount of minutes added upon crafting an item, but also the time needed to obtain resources for it, movement between locations (currently more time is added, since we have to move to public places that workbench is relatively far), obtaining blueprints, it could be completing a quest for a rare resource, finding encounters etc. etc. time consumptions. That all just adds together and make the total time needed to get the final product- item. That's how item availability is controlled, player-dependant, yes, i say availability is flexible due to that.

But if we have a nice and flexible player-dependent gathering, can't it only be the limit to crafting speed? Did people complain that cooldowns were removed? I can't recall they did. Only major thing players were against in the current crafting was the blueprints.

Someone who grinds more/spends time, no matter what system he will gain more, can't invent a new wheel, it's already there.

So the crafting timer limits nothing.

Remove all time consumptions and that will happen.

But it didn't happen during the newest update, so where do we need the crafting cooldown?

Bluesuit CW alts in comparison to a potential force of players that are able to defend themselves. It's what they/you are doing while you meet them, if you are going to carry some iron ore none cares ... if 5 newly crafted MAmk2, that's a different story.

Murder in unsafe zone happens, that's a cold fact. A gang of 10 probably doesn't swarm a lone farmer but we do have individual players who do nothing but hunt down miners. Unfortunately the danger present in unsafe mines is directly dependent on player ammount.

So if you have some mad ideas about ideal crafting systems, go ahead, share them, none is forcing you to keep quite.

Now that you ask: Remove crafting cooldown. Nobody asked for it, it just came out of blue. Crafting speed exists in the ammount of time it takes to haul and gather mats. You know it yourself. If it takes me 3 hours to kill enough vc patrols, science their stuff and craft some Cas what's the purpose of additional timer if I already spent 3 hours gathering?

[Jytz]

I think it IS an exploit. If you actually played Fallout 2, you can see they mean business. You don't go farming them unless you are THE shit. They always travel in groups, and unless you are godlike they RAPED you, and I'm sorry but this gear control seems stupid. Overall with everything....in Fallout 2, everything that made sense to loot was lootable. And how can the devs take out pulse rifles or power armors or vindicators and call them too cheap to implement, when we have AC trolls running around avoiding fire from town guards and anything else, lvl 1 noobs wearing combat armor mark 2 and holding avengers/m60s etc because they found lucky encounters, or people raping everyone with mausers and 10mm pistols? I was followed to an encounter once by someone who shall remain nameless, he shot me in the head for 80 damage knockout despite my chmk2 with a 10mm pistol. Then did 100+ eye shot. And no, it wasn't AP, it was JHP. So at least give all our gear back to make fallout what it was. With all of these updates and everything happening, it feels like you are just trying to censor the game...Anyone else feel this way?

Fallout 2 had leveling scaling, when you hit level 24 in the game you could kill them becuase you had good perks and gear by that time. There is no level scaling in this game usually you just go straight to floaters and aliens from level 1 - 24. Then when you hit level 24 you still can't farm shit like enclave. Its basically everything well tear you apart to get high tier gear even if you are max level. Most games have some sort of leveling scaling, or have areas you go to based on your level. Not saying this should be in the game but just saying. It is possible to do vault city patrols and rangers solo but only as a big gunner with max hp toughness and super stims, and even those are tough. I personally think if you reach max level you should be able to farm max gear but that is not the case in the game and I'm already used to the fact its not like this. I am not going to whine or complain or fight for this being in the game, but would like to bring up that point. Being level 24 doesn't mean shit on any build you still can't get top gear without a hunting party.

[T-888]

So if we had that hidden timer previously during this session, where do we suddenly need the crafting cooldown?

The cooldown was too low in my opinion, it was like "hey let's go craft 1000 plasma grenades","need couple of hundred CA helmets, sure no problem." Completely spoils the atmosphere to the game for me, there were times when combat armors was rare and cool item to have, now they were just comparable to some fucking paper to make. Face it, it's not hard to obtain resources for equipment. Now if i was a new player, and i pretty well remember when i was a new player, i wouldn't have a hard time obtaining raw materials for equipment now, i wouldn't be able to make carpets and provide logistics for a whole team, but who said that needs to be possible? Distribution of blueprints isn't finished, that's a problem now, so you could say the total cooldown isn't balanced yet.

But if we have a nice and flexible player-dependent gathering, can't it only be the limit to crafting speed? Did people complain that cooldowns were removed? I can't recall they did. Only major thing players were against in the current crafting was the blueprints.

Players never report things that makes playing easier, they don't care of consequences, just like the situation with the stealing. Look at how much 5mm, SS, MFC, Rockets players could get, that was totally unreasonable, those 3 items just lost all worth they had, those items were so much it was used as currency in shops, destroying economy. I'd like for those items to have some worth, you know the possibility of running out of them, then using other weapons to what ammunition is left until more supplies are made, being cost efficient with usage of ammo etc. etc. The biggest problem is the Troll Box this wipe actually, it's too late to fix that.

Unfortunately the danger present in unsafe mines is directly dependent on player ammount.

The community is small, players aren't that much.

If it takes me 3 hours to kill enough vc patrols, science their stuff and craft some Cas what's the purpose of additional timer if I already spent 3 hours gathering?

Maybe it's easier to go to a mine and dig resources directly? seriously.

By the way, i reported that crafting cooldown and scrypior fixed it, because it was a bug and i was reporting bugs. Maybe you should go talk with him.

[Shapter]

Quote
So if you have some mad ideas about ideal crafting systems, go ahead, share them, none is forcing you to keep quite.

Now that you ask: Remove crafting cooldown. Nobody asked for it, it just came out of blue. Crafting speed exists in the ammount of time it takes to haul and gather mats. You know it yourself. If it takes me 3 hours to kill enough vc patrols, science their stuff and craft some Cas what's the purpose of additional timer if I already spent 3 hours gathering?

I couldn't agree more! It is painful enough to make risky trips just to craft (ex : advanced workbench, blueprints...).
I love the fact that scarcity is a gameplay element of the game but dying with rare items happens! And if we have to play 10 repetitive hours of grinding for 1 hour of fun, the game is clearly unbalanced.

Please dont kill the fun for the sake of realism!

[BOS Armorer]

I said to loot/equip it. No point of making an alt to loot power armor if you cant use it, unless you want to sell out shops. You would not be able to kill power armored people if you created an alt just to loot it. But that's not my point. What I meant is joining the faction, becoming involved, doing quests etc and having decent enough skill to understand the power armor. I mean really whatever items you can have, it is NOT too cheap. I use this as my main example, but cheaper than a pa soldier with a vindicator minigun is an ac troll running around, then bursting you out of nowhere.

[greenthumb]

If it takes me 3 hours to kill enough vc patrols, science their stuff and craft some Cas what's the purpose of additional timer if I already spent 3 hours gathering?

Maybe it's easier to go to a mine and dig resources directly? seriously.

which mine are you digging for HQ fibers?