Author Topic: 3d models development  (Read 692853 times)

Re: 3d models development
« Reply #1860 on: July 07, 2011, 09:42:52 pm »
Was about to say it personally too but you were faster:)

Offline Haraldx

  • This forum... The memories... The history...
Re: 3d models development
« Reply #1861 on: July 07, 2011, 10:15:32 pm »
Yay, it's good to hear good news.

Remade the NCR veteran armor icon a bit.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2011, 10:19:29 pm by Haraldx »
I still can be reached over e-mail if you somehow need anything from me. Don't see a reason why you would, but if you do, e-mail remains the safest bet, as I do not visit this forum reliably anymore.

Re: 3d models development
« Reply #1862 on: July 07, 2011, 10:30:51 pm »
Hmmm... maybe... maybe...

All my images already have alpha and are saved in PNG format.
Gray robe.


Yeah, i mean...most of the model pictures here are saved as PNG anyway :), thats right. Only difference may be the resolution, the color depth and also the angle at witch they are rendered from. Those things should be taken care of to avoid further editing, in my opionion.

Offline Haraldx

  • This forum... The memories... The history...
Re: 3d models development
« Reply #1863 on: July 07, 2011, 11:10:39 pm »
Yeah, i mean...most of the model pictures here are saved as PNG anyway :), thats right. Only difference may be the resolution, the color depth and also the angle at witch they are rendered from. Those things should be taken care of to avoid further editing, in my opionion.
Another problem would be the pixelated look. However, I feel it can be done with the "pixelate" filter on GIMP.
I still can be reached over e-mail if you somehow need anything from me. Don't see a reason why you would, but if you do, e-mail remains the safest bet, as I do not visit this forum reliably anymore.

Offline Opera

  • Guardian
    • Nitue.net
Re: 3d models development
« Reply #1864 on: July 07, 2011, 11:50:54 pm »
I tried to make it fit more with the other inventory images. Two of the images are sharpened, one is without sharpening, but all three are made to use "Web colors" with transparency.

Sharpened a lot - Sharpened a bit - Not sharpened - Original

Edit: Tried with the fallout palette too:

Sharpened - Not sharpened
« Last Edit: July 08, 2011, 12:09:18 pm by Opera »

Offline Surf

  • Moderator
  • это моё.
Re: 3d models development
« Reply #1865 on: July 08, 2011, 12:47:47 am »
@ the weak/junkie thing... Oh snap, damn, you are right... I think!

Made an NCR Veteran armor icon, the picture was found on Google, I just cropped out the background, resized it, turned it a bit and BAM, here we have it. Should I remove the reflections?


It's directly taken out of Fallout New Vegas and we can't take it.

Offline Johnnybravo

  • Hey there!
Re: 3d models development
« Reply #1866 on: July 08, 2011, 02:18:11 am »
How are those faces on model done? Every single armor sources it in it's own texture or it uses single file?

I mean somebody mights want to mod it early (because tbh it is not pleasant at all) and editing all the files would be a pain. But then again it wouldn't make sense to waste image space by having empty spots for every single model.
"What is this, I don't even"
"This is your forum."

Offline Luther Blissett

  • Moderator
Re: 3d models development
« Reply #1867 on: July 08, 2011, 02:37:25 am »
I did a few quick texture tests, to see what they'd look like on the models. Though I can't add any new models to the SDK to test, I can add new base textures to the human model.
 

This is the bluesuit, with human skin 3 underneath (black man, no tattoos). The clothing texture is split into several subsets (0 Short Sleeve, 1 Shirt Body, 2 Long Sleeve, 3 Knee, 4 Shoe, 5 Hands, 6 Briefs, 7 Hi-Boot, 8 Short Pants, 9 Head, 10 Hi waist female). The bluesuit texture has been applied to 0,1,2,3,4,6,7,8, leaving the head and hands to show the skin texture underneath.Comparing the two characters, it probably needs a little tweaking to get just right, but it's pretty close. I think the main difference in the images is the shadow and highlight from the engine.


I removed the yellow stripe off the vault suit, to make a "base texture" of highlight and shadow, and tried a few colour tints to it. So this one is literally just tinted red, and tinted blue-grey. No extra work into it. The texture hasn't been applied to subsets 2, 9 and 10, leaving the face, hands and lower arm showing the skin texture underneath. Obviously, it's the wrong model (3D hero model talking to weak sprite), and the colour isn't quite there - but I don't think it'd be much more work to make it correct. In theory, once the other body types are implemented you could drop this texture on it, and it'd be ready. It also means these coloured clothes could be worn by all body types.


Though you missed all the action, fake 3D Martin Frobisher killed real sprite Martin Frobisher with some pretty accurate punching animations. He could have killed him with any of the current skin colours, or any of the current clothing textures, without the need for 10,000 more sprites to be drawn. That's pretty awesome, really. If he wants a "13" or "8" painted on his back, just add it to the texture, then it's all ready to go.


Again this is simply a colour tint, with no extra work. It's not quite right though. It's meant to match the peasant guy stood next to him. One of the problems I've found is the lighting and colour seems quite different between the image file, testing in 3D program and the game engine, so it's a bit of trial and error. Basically, I need to save the game, quit, adjust in photoshop, resave, then reload. It's still 9,999 times quicker than drawing all the frames though. I can test them on this model, until the colours are right, then when the appropriate models are implemented, it'll automatically work.


Fake 3D Martin Frobisher can convince these two ladies that he's the real thing, but can he convince you? No? Then we need to think about what he'd need to do to look better. I think the lighting / shadow on the model is probably the first one, followed by tweaking the colours until they're perfect. Fake 3D Martin Frobisher needs your feedback, thoughts and ideas.


These colours seem about right, I think. With another 10 minutes in photoshop, that texture's probably ready to use on the junkie model. Note that the texture layering has missed out "subset 2" along with face and hands, so he has short sleeves, and the skin tone for the arms shows instead.

[edit]
How are those faces on model done? Every single armor sources it in it's own texture or it uses single file?

I mean somebody mights want to mod it early (because tbh it is not pleasant at all) and editing all the files would be a pain. But then again it wouldn't make sense to waste image space by having empty spots for every single model.

The face textures are part of a lower "layer" of texture (param 150). By default, this is a man in underpants. An extra layer of clothing texture (param 155) can be applied on top of this, and as explained above, can cover certain parts of it and leave others blank. On top of that, an extra layer of armour (param 153) and helmet (param 154) can be added on top. You can add / take away all these bits separately.

Basically, the face / hands on the clothing textures are not needed, unless they cover up the face or hands (gloves, for example). If someone redraws a the face, it would be updated for everything automatically (magically).
« Last Edit: July 08, 2011, 02:45:51 am by Luther Blissett »

Offline Surf

  • Moderator
  • это моё.
Re: 3d models development
« Reply #1868 on: July 08, 2011, 02:45:34 am »
Very good showcase Luther. The colors like presented in the last screen are the best - it only could be a bit sharper (and ofcourse the pixelisation is missing). Much stuff can be done with just looking at the fallout color palette though, or even applying it directly to the texture (should be done anyway, but I don't know the workflow of the 3d people that much) or even doing the texture as an 8bit picture file, just like all the original Fallout graphics are.

I'd btw need the "naked" basic human models really naked, not with some underwear on. If anyone wants to look at some 2d penii or other genitalia for quite some time while editing the texture - I'd be very glad (: Standard underwear looks way too clean and lacks a stenchy look too btw
« Last Edit: July 08, 2011, 02:47:56 am by Surf »

Offline Graf

  • Moderator
  • "Next Day" developer
Re: 3d models development
« Reply #1869 on: July 08, 2011, 10:31:45 am »
Great presentation, Luther :) Some of the pics are really funny to me.

Yesterday I've made a model of motor:



Download link

Also, you've been looking for a mrs. Kitty outfit
Female brown clothes (2nd from right - I've seen a version of this on the forums somewhere already)
so I've remembered that pistacja did that texture. I've asked for it, and here we go:


If anyone wants to look at some 2d penii or other genitalia for quite some time while editing the texture

Uh, I don't really see any reason, why someone would like to add this into the official version of the 3D project ::) This can be added as a separate mod later (if someone would like to make it), but not as something that would be availabe to everyone.

Offline Lexx

  • Rotator
  • Mexican Apple Thief
Re: 3d models development
« Reply #1870 on: July 08, 2011, 11:01:53 am »
It's directly taken out of Fallout New Vegas and we can't take it.

Not true. This is just an image, nobody will kill anyone for that. But converting 3d models with their textures 1:1 to be usable in FOnline is a quite different thing, which we will not do.

« Last Edit: July 08, 2011, 11:34:11 am by Lexx »

Offline Surf

  • Moderator
  • это моё.
Re: 3d models development
« Reply #1871 on: July 08, 2011, 02:55:06 pm »

Uh, I don't really see any reason, why someone would like to add this into the official version of the 3D project ::) This can be added as a separate mod later (if someone would like to make it), but not as something that would be availabe to everyone.

I asked if someone wants to make it if (s)he finds the time, not that it "must immediately be made!!111". It was mainly directed to Luther, not you, so you can leave your fancy rolleyes at home.

Not true. This is just an image, nobody will kill anyone for that. But converting 3d models with their textures 1:1 to be usable in FOnline is a quite different thing, which we will not do.

It's still basing on their work and I wouldn't want to risk it, but it's ultimatively your decision.




Offline Luther Blissett

  • Moderator
Re: 3d models development
« Reply #1872 on: July 08, 2011, 04:56:54 pm »
I've remembered that pistacja did that texture. I've asked for it, and here we go:

That was the one - yes. Am I right in thinking that the upper breast area will cause a problem, as it doesn't match to the texture subsets - i.e. if the woman model has black or brown skin, she would still have a white chest? I know it won't matter for the original sprite, as she is white - but for customisation it would be a problem.

Is there any way of using transparency on this layer (155 clothes) to see the layer underneath in game (150 skin)? Otherwise we need to think of a good solution for this - because it will be the same on several of the female models.
Some thoughts :
a) No other skin tones with such textures (this seems wrong)
b) Separate textures for different skin colours (this seems wrong, and also may be hard to implement)
c) Change textures to only contain skin within the "subset zones" (ruins appearance of sprite?)
d) Add extra subsets to female model, to allow skin areas to show through (may be a lot of extra work for Karpov)
e) Some change in engine, to allow alpha transparency between layers? (or does it work already?)

Uh, I don't really see any reason, why someone would like to add this into the official version of the 3D project ::)

I could actually see a use in a "no underwear" texture, but without genitalia, just "blank area" - when I was doing the test colouring before, the underpants area showed up as a very different colour to the rest of the body - and if you look at screenshots above, you can still see the underpants through the trousers texture, as I couldn't balance the colours quite right. If it was the same skin tone, this would make things easier.

Also, if one with genitalia is needed, for whatever reason (sex? torture? slavery? joke? humiliating the enemy?) in a mod, I don't mind trying to draw this. Drawing one penis in pixels will not turn me gay :P

It's low priority on my list though, so I'll happily let someone else do it if they want to - but if nobody will, and it's needed, I'll do it at some point.

[edit]

For NCR icon - try taking this model (below), loading it in Wings3D, Blender, Max, whatever, making a "print screen" or render, then turning this into an icon. Then we can see how well that works, and compare the two.

I think the one that has been drawn is excellent - but if we can get the same effect from our own resources, we may as well use them (so it's definitely not a copyright problem). If it works well, we can use the same method for doing all the other armours which don't have an icon. If it looks rubbish, we use the sprite that has been made above. I think it would be worth trying anyway, just to see how well it could work.

Male NCR Longcoat
1034 tris
Files (wings, 3ds, obj, and textures)
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=E1XJC1R8
« Last Edit: July 08, 2011, 05:03:55 pm by Luther Blissett »

Offline Surf

  • Moderator
  • это моё.
Re: 3d models development
« Reply #1873 on: July 08, 2011, 05:09:52 pm »
I could actually see a use in a "no underwear" texture, but without genitalia, just "blank area" - when I was doing the test colouring before, the underpants area showed up as a very different colour to the rest of the body - and if you look at screenshots above, you can still see the underpants through the trousers texture, as I couldn't balance the colours quite right. If it was the same skin tone, this would make things easier.

Yep, exactly. The underwear we have at the moment rather looks like diapers and/or are a little out of place as they look like some wastelander grabbed a cheap deal at walmarts fresh new undies ad - buy 4, get one for free etc. ;) Blank area  seems fine to me, doesn't have to include any genitalia (someone might get offended! )


Quote
Also, if one with genitalia is needed, for whatever reason (sex? torture? slavery? joke? humiliating the enemy?) in a mod, I don't mind trying to draw this. Drawing one penis in pixels will not turn me gay :P

Yep, the bolded parts are what I mean, especially the humilating one. :) I could imagine some quests for 2238  where you are stripped of all your posessions and dignity and have to  fight with just that - then it would look a bit weird if the enemy is so generous to leave your undies to you. It is an interesting way to do a quest/mission, especially in a game where everyone runs around in such ridicolous hightech armory, I'd love to do some quests with that background. Letting a human run around forcefully in the adams costume is the ultimate insult someone can do to someone else - there was a good scene in "The Road" too where such thing happened.

Quote
It's low priority on my list though, so I'll happily let someone else do it if they want to - but if nobody will, and it's needed, I'll do it at some point.

Yup, as said, it'd be just for the flavor in 3-4 scenes inside the game, not for default wastelanders. So it can wait till more important things are done. ;)

Quote
I think the one that has been drawn is excellent - but if we can get the same effect from our own resources, we may as well use them (so it's definitely not a copyright problem).

My thoughts exactly! If people are doing such a good job on modeling all those cool armors etc. from scratch, why going the cheap route on those item images for example when it can actually be made from our own ressources..
« Last Edit: July 08, 2011, 05:11:53 pm by Surf »

Offline Graf

  • Moderator
  • "Next Day" developer
Re: 3d models development
« Reply #1874 on: July 08, 2011, 07:39:24 pm »
the upper breast area will cause a problem, as it doesn't match to the texture subsets

If I remember correctly, quite long time ago Gray had the same problem with the prisoner suit and it was successfully solved. We have to ask him how he did it, since I can't find that post atm.

I asked if someone wants to make it if (s)he finds the time, not that it "must immediately be made!!111". It was mainly directed to Luther, not you, so you can leave your fancy rolleyes at home.

I didn't saw any reference text, not even a quote. I didn't saw a normal explanation why do you need it either. Without of background which was added later, your request pretty much senseless (and this isn't even a suggestion topic!) my post is a logical answer. So keep your negative emotions to yourself and your folks.