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[набегат]

For pvp this feature is probably quite must or we will have fucking ridiculous pvp in this session. The login cooldown should only disable attacking for equal time it aproximately takes to spawn, regear and come back. I tested dying in reno, spawning, going to my spawnbase, grabbing stuff and driving back to reno. It took 45 seconds. Add spawntimer which is 1 minute and you got 1min 45 seconds. Since people take differend ammount of time to come back and regear and for example bh spawn is further away, the timer could be set to plain 2 minutes. This would give enough time for winning team to prepare for whatever the losers decide to send against them.

This looks VERY reasonable!

2 minutes is not much if you want to switch to another character, but it is enough to avoid PVP alt abusing. Basicly it's time necessary to respawn, grab your stuff and go back to fight. I dont see any down sides and pvp experience will benefit a lot from it.

[Glave]

So instead of 3 clients I'll have to open an additional, 4th window just so I can freely switch characters and effectively avoid this feature.

Great idea indeed.

[Johnny Nuclear]

You kill some laser pistol PK in Modoc, second later you see "off" and his alt with gatling in CA comes in.

or you are killed by PK in modoc and you relog on PvP char to punish him.

duallog should be prohibited and using it punished by IP ban

some kind of nerfing combat relogs is really must.

[Wichura]

For pvp this feature is probably quite must or we will have fucking ridiculous pvp in this session. The login cooldown should only disable attacking for equal time it aproximately takes to spawn, regear and come back. I tested dying in reno, spawning, going to my spawnbase, grabbing stuff and driving back to reno. It took 45 seconds.

There was a cooldown for relog already. up to 10 minutes, so you couldn't just jump between characters in no time. There was a crawling "speed" of map traveling, so people were unable to come back in a minute or so. There is a weakness after respawn, so people can't just FA themselves easy. All these had or have to stop these nasty exploiters and fast relogers. All failed, fail and will fail, as long as there are immature people, that are afraid to lose in a computer game - "majority" term anyone?

Restrictions set to prevent some retarded apes from abusing hurt as usual innocents, that sometimes don't even care for apeshit business. These restrictions almost never hurt apes of course, people can go around one way or another and they will. Apes first, lumberjacks then, even newcomers gonna do this if they only know how.

Funny, how PvP in this game is bond tight to cheating.

[JovankaB]

So instead of 3 clients I'll have to open an additional, 4th window just so I can freely switch characters and effectively avoid this feature.

Great idea indeed.

Yes you would need multiple clients opened all the time to cheat in combat effectively.
Then at least you would be easier to report, observe and ban for being cheating cheapass.
Big improvement over current situation when you risk absolutely nothing with fast relogs.

There was a cooldown for relog already. up to 10 minutes, so you couldn't just jump between characters in no time.

Yes you could. And if you waited 180 seconds for previous alt to disappear, I guarantee you,
you were perfectly safe doing it. Sleepiness is different kind of cooldown, it's not meant for
anyone to stop from fast relogging but to participate in PvP with character who just logged in.
Penalty can't be avoided in any way except by having multiple characters logged in all the time.
If it was 2-3 minute combat nerf you would hardly ever notice it if you don't PvP using alts.

[Crazy]

There was a crawling "speed" of map traveling, so people were unable to come back in a minute or so.

Don't think this was the reason of the speed.

All failed, fail and will fail

I don't agree. Proxy sneak and proxy merc were really the only thing seen frequently. Maybe sometime you had to fight 2 wave of CS char but that's it. But right now, bringing fresh alt to fight when you die, over and over again is frequent.

[avv]

I don't agree. Proxy sneak and proxy merc were really the only thing seen frequently. Maybe sometime you had to fight 2 wave of CS char but that's it. But right now, bringing fresh alt to fight when you die, over and over again is frequent.

It's true. Only the most dedicated losers cheated so that it was really troublesome in previous session. But problem with previous session was also lack of gm presence. Honestly only gm can stop proxies in enviroment like we got: open and anyone can enter when they want.
Proxy scouting, looting and taxiing is not big deal, causes minor annoyance but is tolerable. But when people start spawning mercs or getting reinforcements it goes over the top.

[Kelin]

Restrictions set to prevent some retarded apes from abusing hurt as usual innocents, that sometimes don't even care for apeshit business. These restrictions almost never hurt apes of course, people can go around one way or another and they will. Apes first, lumberjacks then, even newcomers gonna do this if they only know how.

I couldn't have said it better by myself.

Proxy scouting, looting and taxiing is not big deal, causes minor annoyance but is tolerable.

It's not tolerable in any way. It always suck when you face 10 real enemies and you meet 9 sneakers and 10 PvP chars on the battleground. Fights are won sometimes narrowly so the last man standing determines winning team. In these cases this one proxy sneaker makes a huge difference.

Either strictly ban people using proxy, so there will be nobody who dares to use it (very unlikely) or leave this issue. So far I haven't experienced any huge problem with multiple alts on WM, yes people tend to do it, in worse case you will die, in better case you get more loot. That's something I can live with, not like when there is a group of "better" players who have an advantage.

[avv]

Either strictly ban people using proxy, so there will be nobody who dares to use it (very unlikely) or leave this issue.

No problem with this. However once something is declared wrong or against the rules, there will be strong demand to always punish the cheaters when they are met. Especially by those players who don't do it themselves. In addition The punishing just has to be done properly so that the right people who fuck others up with cheats get banned and punished. Instead of banning I'd rather see them banished, wiped away from the game. Gms could give like clear warning what won't be tolerated, wait for a week or month and gather data and intelligence and then steamroll the abusers that didn't take the note. Then there shouldn't be any moaning that "I didn't know it was against the rules".

Danger is that the less harmful cheaters get punished most because they aren't so experienced in avoiding gms and hiding their cheats.

So far I haven't experienced any huge problem with multiple alts on WM, yes people tend to do it, in worse case you will die, in better case you get more loot. That's something I can live with, not like when there is a group of "better" players who have an advantage.

If nothing is done, it's going to be a major part of this session's pvp. I will personally level at least 5 pvp alts for exactly this purpose if nothing is done about fast combat relogs.
The main problem is that new players to pvp will be left behind badly as well as occasional pvpers. First they will have to get stuff to even pvp, then level a horde of alts if they want to manage anywhere near how long term players are doing. It will another "do this or fall" task for us all.

[chocolate_chip_cookies]

And stop with this GMs hate playerbase, I'm a player too and farmed hundreds of itanz myself as well
Sorry but "GMs hate playerbase" "everyone will quit" is appeal to emotion not valid points in discussion...

The fact that everyone is against it means that it's a stupid suggestion.

Oh and it's not appeal to emotion, it's appeal to logic.

[Wichura]

Maybe sometime you had to fight 2 wave of CS char but that's it. But right now, bringing fresh alt to fight when you die, over and over again is frequent.

Oh, so only the naughty CS did the dirty cheatz and proxiez? Didn't they have something about "fair play" in signatures for a while? :>

I hardly recognize gangs, all these CS, TTL, DVD, HDMI, CD-RW acronyms, I barely trust any of them speaking about "no cheating" and I really don't know why punish all community for sins of only part of it?

Problem is we don't have clear statement from dev team yet, considering cheating in PvP. Nobody knows if reporting "Pwnz0r1", "Pwnz0r2" and "Pwzn0r3" in a row will cause any consequences for owner of these chars.

[JovankaB]

Dual log was put into "OKish" gray area as long it doesn't break game for other players.
Major part of breaking game includes dual logging in PvP.

Problem is fast relogs are about as effective as dual logs, you can't control 3 characters
efficiently at the same time anyway, but you can switch between them on WM.
And fast relogs are harder for GMs to fight with ("it was my brother that logged off. he went to shop, sori").

The fact that everyone is against it means that it's a stupid suggestion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

And second of all, not everyone was against it.

Come back when you will have some proper arguments, thanks.

[chocolate_chip_cookies]

Listen smartass, you know exactly what I meant.

But if you want arguments then let me tell you this. You would hurt every player to punish a few. Every player would be affected by this because everyone would have the same timout thing. Some won't care about it but others will be pissed off.

Let me give you an example.
I only have one account and don't make alts because I don't want to. I could care less if I kill someone and he comes back with an alt to fight back. What I do care about is limiting me because you have a problem with something that doesn't even concern me.

[JovankaB]

You login and you jump right into fights the same minute?
You can do plenty of other things first 120 seconds. Also, I was considering:

You don't get it, if (...) you didn't switch characters on the same client.

And about your previous post, no, I don't know what you meant.
You posted fallacious argument and called it appeal to logic. Your second post is much better, thanks.

[vilaz]

You would hurt every player to punish a few. Every player would be affected by this because everyone would have the same timout thing. Some won't care about it but others will be pissed off.

This part is essence of what I had in mind.