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Total Members Voted: 96

[kttdestroyer]

My two cents i guess 

First of all, i would say it depends what developers what to achive with the game. Do they want northen towns to be all out pvp towns or do they want northen towns to be a place which people get bounded to, create their own little goverment and so politics (WWP, BHH, TSAR).


Current Militia Overview

The militia current strenght is acually a counter of their stupidness i would say. 20 merc militia? 2 Minigunners and 3 bluesuits can kill 20 militia using the room trick in between 30-60 minutes.

With bombers, it can be killed pretty quick aswell, especially if they are grouping in one place (there are militia positions that makes militia to group up to 6-7 militias, 3-4 bombs can take them all out).

This can be effectivly countered by having players inside town 24/7, which is impossible for non-international gangs. Players who point militia who to shot (the enemy bluesuits who block the doors for exemple) and keep buying new militia.

Face to face fight, 15-20 players have a chance to kill whole militia with good positioning, and maybe few extra sets of stuff to quickly return.

Having in mind that merc militia is expensive, town earnings are pretty much 0 in the end (exept after 2 weeks+). One good militia cost around 30-40 000 caps, not counting the times when you have to replace them if the luck is not on your side. In time of one week, each day avarage one have to replace 2-6 militias. Becouse of various reasons, some explained above, and others like bugs when militia kills eachother off.

What can be done better with militia?

Again, depends on what developers want to achive. If they want pvp focus, then militia should be removed simply. If you want to make the towns more faction personal. Then the militia should be made more smarter and then they can be reduced in strenght. Some points which can be adjusted:

* Reduce their HP by 50%

* 16 militia is enough? Maybe could vary depending on town, maybe the number of militia should grow more slowely, 4 hours until 10 militias, then it goes each 6 hours to get another one up to 16.

* Allow players to choose what they want the mercs to aim at, allow players to decide what kind of perks should they focus on while gaining levels (I want you to focus on speed / critts / bursting ability / first aid / chance to hit).

* Allow players to choose Militia positioning in an specified area. / Remove the Militia grouping spots.

* Have diffrent settings for militia in general, agressive (Shot all faction enemies on sight inside a specific zone, Shot all that faction player triggers), neutral (Shot all faction enemies in side a specific zone if player shots them, dont help faction member attacking a neutral player unless the neutral player has stole/attack someone/attack militia/attack npc/exploded in last 60 minutes), friendly (Dont support faction players unless enemy or neutral attacks them or militia.). Those 3 modes could be changed with some cooldown. And could be represented with a color of town on world map (Red/Yellow/Green). Aswell as town income could be either boosted (with friendly) or reduced (with agressive).

* Give them memory, a dude explodes in front of them with a bomb? Then he should be attacked on sight for 60 minutes, same with suicide bursters. Attacking militia should be remembered no?

Think thats all for now, i will move to next subject

Town Control

I think a way to make town control more intresting is to make towns more faction based, for exemple, a faction decides that this town is our home land, and then they fight for it. It gives at least a reason to fight other then just to fight when players/factions can indentify themselfs with the "flags".

To support this way of thinking, 15 minutes is way to short time to throw out a faction that sees the town as their home. However, 15 minutes is aswell more then enough time to stand and wait for enemy to show up... So it is a problem in both ways. I would suggest something i suggested long time ago, that the towns would be split into 3 capture zones each. The third is the final zone, The zone that can be only reached by capturing the first 2, it must be done by steps. After the first capture the zone remains open for capture for 30 minutes, so the faction defending has an oportunity to strike back. Also once the first timer started, it also sets the time zone for the next day with 3 hours forward and back. For exemple: If a zone is taken at 00:00 GMT+1 and held for this 30 minutes, then next day, any faction can make another attempt at time frame 21:00 to 3:00 am. If it is the defending faction that takes it between 00:00-00:59 the time zone stays the same, if it takes it between 21:00-23:59 then the time zone is moved back 1 hour (20:00-2:00), if after 1:00 am then moved forward one hour. so to fully take over a town you need 3 days and you have to win 3 battles straight victories. Together with this remove TC from 3 AM to 10 AM and you got dynamic TC time frames.

I think there should also be diffrent ways of town control avalible to players. I mean, not everybody want to use those towns for pure pvp. Allow the pvp players to do their pvp and allow the rp players to do their rp. If a faction wants only to raid the town, they allow them to do so, with rewards. This could go outside of TC, meaning no timers need to be started, militia needs to be killed totally, and then treatning traders to give the faction caps aswell as sherrif, the total caps of gained/rewards gained will be reduced from the TC box aswell as future income, the faction in control will be in other words in dept to the town.

There should be possibilities for factions to invest in town other then militia aswell, like funding a shop, buildings, more bramhins in the pens. Which would pay back in diffrent ways (new reward in TC box? Need to fund something to get anything in the box overally?). I mean, not everybody in the wasteland are roleplaying raiders, some people are roleplaying settlers aswell. What puprose does the raiders have if there are no settlers? I suggest to remove all crafting workbenches from bases and put them into town aswell. To make towns useful.

Also reputation should be invovled in this, without faction reputation towards other factions both NPCs and player factions, there are limitations.

Life in a Ghost Town

Is harsh. There is little things that help people into roleplay. Acually the only interactive part is brahmin pens? In Redding, The malamute saloon doesint even have beer! Casino is just scenery together with most things. The molerat mambo not mentioning the field of view errors while looking from one side to another over it, is locked and cannot be used.

-------------------------------------------------
But yeah, like i said, it all depends on how developers see the game. If its pure pvp that you aim, then militia should be gone completely but without adding the "roleplaying sparks" in the enviroment the Roleplay will die, as pvp did kind of with militia.

[dskpnk]

nice_boat, kilgore, t-888, dskpnk this is a topic for suggestions then stop fu..ing flooding it and shut your mouth. Nobody wants to read about your personal experience. Let the other people speak. Stop dominating it and favorite few ideas.

Wtf with this guys ? We all purpose things and discuss about different point of view (according that our strange community have a particular way to debate), i posted twice here to support my vote as asked by dev ! And sorry for our presonals experiences but BBS/Rogues plays since the begining of the beta and i play since 2 years so i think our differents experiences are good, and you anonym stranger, who are you ?

So if you have nothing more to tell than shut up please go away this topic is for harsh debate and purposals no free troll !

[seb910]

I play from more then 2 years mostly TC. I`ve got much experience but I don`t blaber about how nice could be if we decrease the timer by 5 minutes.

[Johnnybravo]

Combat is not simple, (...)

I don't disagree, but I was actually talking about the significance of the very input of player when attacking. The truth is that this game is very much based on positioning, while there is nearly no skill involved in the combat itself (dealing and receiving damage that is).  I agree that maps can support only limited number of players, but until optimal number of players increase the skill involved (usually leadership and discipline, but of course there are factors beyond those).

Well, the more complicated idea is, less chance that devs will implement it and even lesser that it won't be bugged heavily. I'd vote for something simple so it won't be abused during next session - and we know that even small things introduced into the game resulted often in a major abuse (killing town controller with militia, adding mercs to militia etc., bluesuit runs through all of the towns).

If separate "battlegrounds" (call it whatever you like) perhaps even with artificial limiting functions (like allowing only certain number of participants) were the main focus of PvP, you would be probably given superior quality of entertainment.
HOWEVER, this is really theme-park concept that might as well hurt the game (for example, if it is accepted that the game take care of balance, you might as well see players demanding more features from the game taking care of things that are now completely on players), on other hand some people have only fun from grieving others or only from winning, and will not be stopped by any ethic or morale issue unless the software itself manages them.

But it is questionable whether or not should be manpower deciding factor in PvP.

[Cha]

Do they want northen towns to be all out pvp towns or do they want northen towns to be a place which people get bounded to, create their own little goverment and so politics (WWP, BHH, TSAR).

I agree that we can split TC feature in 2 categories :

a) "beaconing" action - short term

b) Establishing - middle-long term

Its still not very clear in my mind, but this could work like that (brief description) : 

When taking town, you could have the 2 options.

Option a) "Raiding Town". You have to stay in town, as it has been suggested on other post, and you have good reward every 15 minutes or so. Weak militia support. When you leave, city turn to "none" and NPC Neutral.

Option b) "Anexing Town". You choose to establish in town and you start a timer like today (15 minutes if no speacher char). You dont have to have members left in town after timer. Militia would be stronger but bad reward every 1H or so. Town couldnt be takeable for some time.

[T-888]

Reno is different and always was like that due to lack of rewards and incentive for remaining inside and the mostly featureless terrain. You don't know what does or does not happen in the game with small scale TC because you're a newbie and you never played that. Your conceptions are unrealistic and wrong.

No reno is not different that's the ultimate place for small scale pvp right now and will be it's the best example , don't start talking about some rewards looting enemy bodies is enough , featureless terrain ? Reno has so many buildings and entrance point's it's i just can't believe you say it's featurless terrain. Your out of this world man.

And the space a swarm occupies is a general thing. The evidence is irrefutable, you can't maneuver with more than 15 people because there's not enough space on the F2 maps to do that. Even when you detach a squad for a specific task it often is impossible to surprise the enemy because the LOS of a swarm spans almost the entire length of the map. That's why practically every single swarm battle looks pretty much the same. It's like trying to play chess on a 4x4 board. To be honest I wouldn't have that much against swarms if those battles were to be fought on some new, much larger maps designed with that specific purpose in mind... I don't know, maybe the devs would consider making a domination mode map or two for 20-30 people per side? The only map that's big enough in terms of size seems to be Klamath, but it somehow still devolves into a frontal slugfest at trapper town due to the placement of its capture zone and some bottlenecks that make fighting there easier for the defenders.

Yes you can maneuver with 15 people , look how coordinated both sides are they don't do random shit , it's all about strategy , positioning and timing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdUi8hxOzBI

Look how long the battle is and how they get wiped out slowly wasn't that simple to pull off a frontal assault , they don't even take up a quarter of all the map about what space are you talking about , some of the fallout maps are really big don't start pulling out some certain scenarios again.

Most of the battles are won because we suprise the enemy by flanking them , reentering or attacking from 2 sides , not every battle is just one big rush.

I really want to know from witch faction are you so i could actually determine your " experience "

That just goes to show that you don't know anything about commanding people aside from "msh does it and he does it well". Well guess what, msh would be even better with commanding 5 or 8 people and would probably be absolutely stellar if he didn't have to deal with inexperienced arrogant people like you. Go ahead and ask him what he likes better... oh wait, you won't because you know you wouldn't like the answer and it would make you look stupid. Oh, and I know that because I did command teams of various sizes, from 5 to 35-45. All in all you're the one who is theorycrafting and even worse, your theories are all wrong.
Your point of view is simply wrong. I proved it wrong using a friggin' picture, among other things. There's no reason for anyone to listen to you and take you seriously if you ignore the most important arguments of your opponents in the discussion, really.

I bet you were the one loosing the battles. You don't know how i play or how i even got into rogues what gives you the right to judge my gameplay experience , ask msh ... oh wait you barely have talked with him ever ! Nobody cares about your dumb and worthless theories man if you don't actually play the game enough , my " theories " are actually not theories those are observations of my experience , my opinion is based how have i played till now with rogues. I don't lie and i don't need to , your not listening to me , your ignoring my arguments so we talk in circles because of you.

I see that you have problems with comprehension so i don't think it's worth to continue this madness with you.

Friggin lunatic.

[Nice_Boat]

No reno is not different that's the ultimate place for small scale pvp right now and will be it's the best example , don't start talking about some rewards looting enemy bodies is enough , featureless terrain ? Reno has so many buildings and entrance point's it's i just can't believe you say it's featurless terrain. Your out of this world man.

Hahah oh wow. Yeah, especially the streets. And no, it's not the best example because contrary to TC situations there's no reason to stay inside the town.

Yes you can maneuver with 15 people , look how coordinated both sides are they don't do random shit , it's all about strategy , positioning and timing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdUi8hxOzBI

Look how long the battle is and how they get wiped out slowly wasn't that simple to pull off a frontal assault , they don't even take up a quarter of all the map about what space are you talking about , some of the fallout maps are really big don't start pulling out some certain scenarios again.

Yeah, and the fact that the fighting happens in that particular spot all the combat in Den happens at reinforces your theory... oh wait, it actually doesn't. That clip was just a few minutes of camping and would be hard to watch if not for the music... glorious swarm tactics indeed.

Most of the battles are won because we suprise the enemy by flanking them , reentering or attacking from 2 sides , not every battle is just one big rush.

I really want to know from witch faction are you so i could actually determine your " experience "

BBS/Rogues. And what you said about flanking is just not true, it doesn't happen all that often especially since a lot of new players aren't dependable enough to execute stuff like that right unless you babysit them... but I digress and it's not the point here.

I bet you were the one loosing the battles. You don't know how i play or how i even got into rogues what gives you the right to judge my gameplay experience , ask msh ... oh wait you barely have talked with him ever ! Nobody cares about your dumb and worthless theories man if you don't actually play the game enough , my " theories " are actually not theories those are observations of my experience , my opinion is based how have i played till now with rogues. I don't lie and i don't need to , your not listening to me , your ignoring my arguments so we talk in circles because of you.

So yeah, I've played with msh in one gang since before he even got to know the Rogues and I've played with him all the time when BBS started playing with the Rogues. Yeah, you obviously know him much better than I do. Hilarious. And yeah, obviously me and msh were the ones loosing all the battles. Get out.

I see that you have problems with comprehension so i don't think it's worth to continue this madness with you.

Friggin lunatic.

That's nice because you quite obviously fail at logical thinking and talking with you amounts to having to deal with a steady stream of unwarranted verbal abuse and wild theories that have nothing to do with the reality of the game.

[Cha]

I agree that we can split TC feature in 2 categories :

a) "beaconing" action - short term

b) Establishing - middle-long term

Its still not very clear in my mind, but this could work like that (brief description) : 

When taking town, you could have the 2 options.

Option a) "Raiding Town". You have to stay in town, as it has been suggested on other post, and you have good reward every 15 minutes or so. Weak militia support. When you leave, city turn to "none" and NPC Neutral.

Option b) "Anexing Town". You choose to establish in town and you start a timer like today (15 minutes if no speacher char). You dont have to have members left in town after timer. Militia would be stronger but bad reward every 1H or so. Town couldnt be takeable for some time.

Developing the idea of 2 choices for TC feature.

Annexing Town :

So lets say a faction called RP-Faction want to "Annex Town". They wait until end of timer like today. 6 random militians automatically starts to go out Mayor Office. Every hour, a new random milita is automatically added. Every hour, RP-Faction will loot little in chest. If they want, they can add mercs, by killing and replacing as today. Militia cap should be betwen 16 and 20.

The timer for "Annexing Town" should be longer. 40mn maybe. Then city cannot be annexed for 72H. But city can be Raided.

Raiding Town :

Lets say a faction call Raiders want to Raid the city Annexed by RP-Faction (or None). The Raiders must kill militia then start their Raid talking to Mayor. The Raid is on until they have a couple of players inside. They loot every 15mn good treasure in chest. They may have 4 randoms militia automatically added then can buy new one every 15mn. Max 8. No mercs adding possibility.

When Raid is over (got killed or left city), city status is again "Annexed by RP-Faction". 6 random militans appears 15mn after the Raid. Every hour a new random militian is automaticaly added. This will allow city to be a bit safe and city will grow again without necessecity organising "operation" of TC.

Note: dont forget adding mercs in militia is available since begining of session. It was never a problem until now. The problem is that in the ending session, people has millions caps. But in middle stage, buying mercs for milita is very expensive.

Edit: numbers are wip

[Michaelh139]

Cha, i very much like your ideas on this, but I see a couple flaws.

1.  Why would any faction (except very rare, and usually not very dedicated rp factions) annex a town when they know it'll take soooo much longer then just taking town, and give much less pay off.  For example...  annexing town we already have basically, but it's 15 minutes long.  If it moved up to 40 minutes I just highly doubt any faction would manage to make it.  Other factions having so much longer to attack and such, they'll likely be beaten down before 20 minutes is up making it very undesirable option no matter what the intentions.

2.  Another thing about annexation compared to raiding.  Likely, when you annex town, at night someone is going to kill all militia (like already) and take town while everyone is sleeping...  wasting 40 minutes of their time and whatever else they put into it even worse than now.   (Unless windows are added of course, but i feel it's kind of unfair for other players of other timezones)  With Raiding you only need to stick around 15 minutes for initial pay-off and get to have at least 8 militia, and you don't have to worry about protecting it after you leave since you already got your treasure and such, however the militia for raiding leads me to my next comment...

3.  After raiding town, and getting militia, what happens to militia after you leave?  Do they disappear, remain militia as (unknown) which I suppose would kind of work itself out.... but doesn't make sense since if you came back and this same militia that was on your side during raid it's not very logical you have to kill them to continue raiding.  Also, the militia in town while raiding it while under annexation of another faction, after you leave, do these militia automatically come under their control?  And why no merc adding possibility?  I would say you can "Temporarily" add militia to town for raid as long as they return to regular status and begin re-following you through dialogue "Alright guys time to leave this shit hole, pack it up!"

I might have a few more later, but this is it for now.

[seb910]

That should not be militia at all, if you want to do any rpg project then guard the city by your own instead of hiding behind the militia. This is bad idea cuz you gonna kill your imagined enemy and them imagined enemy could do nothing until they got a swarm. About TC like i said before, i have big experence cuz i play this game just for TC and the thing like tactic, logistic, etc. is a small piece, there is only few simple rules you cannot do for not being lame and mostly win the side with bigger swarm or luckier snipers, etc. Usually in city is lots of sneakers so surprise attack does not exist, both sides always get info about the enemy`s move. So I don`t know what game are you people talking about but it`s definitely not FOnline 2238.

[Cha]

You cannot defend town only by players 24/24 waiting raiders to show up and strike.

I understand that people dont want PVE and get crits shots by bots etc... The idea is that militia should be nerfed like this :

Lets say that we nerf militia - that without an organized squad of defenders - a gang of 8 players can kill it without any problems. This will help players inside with low hp, scrappy builds noobs etc.. survive a bit against little raids.

About your questions Mickael i dont know yet. But main iea is there : 2 TC options.

[Lordus]

TC has two functions today: a) PvP beacon b) roleplay background. Should these two functions be together like current TC, or should they be separated or mixed in some other entertain variation?

Few ideas of mine:

 1) Add (or replace) other city or city location into TC city family. I.e. Hub City could be new TC city, or Necropolis. I understand that "no-pvp-apez" would be negative, but i think that this "small" change could bring something new next era, because PvP players knows every current pvp locations as they know their own shoes.

 2) TC capturing time windows are good. It guarantee "real life players" time, they know they can go online, join game and fight. It is better than current concept..(be online for many hours and hope that someone will fight with you).

 But TC time windows have their own effects: a) TC windows supports massive fights, 2 alliances, because everyone is focused on one location. It is not negative effect, but the concept of small groups fight should be supported too.

 3) My "TC variation"
 a) time windows
 b) gang can own only one city
 c) after succesfull TC capture, winning gang would get SINGLE supply of stuff (weapon, armor, ... random things but it should be usable in PvP), the new time window could be opened next day
 d) possesor of TC city could set 2 different militia types: 1/ miltia would kill everyone with high tier weapons (even members of winning gang, who possses TC city). So not tier max PvP could be in cities. Militia would be almost indestructible, it would not be controlable by possesors gang members and it would only prevent using current powerbuilds in city. So possesor gang and their friends should guard the city themselfs, but with no fear of spawn of dozens powerbuild with best stuff

 or 2/ militia could be controlable by possesor players (like now in TC, by marking players with shots,..), but you have to buy it, no stuff restrictions.

 e) Every RL hour after TC was captured, there would be spawned some stuff in random NPCs in the city. This would be only CONTINUAL income from TC city. BUT! everyone should be able to get that staff (simple quest), even enemy gang players, no gang players, everyone. The point is, that you have to personally check the NPCs, if they have spawned stuff. So possesors gang players would have to stay in city, check NPCs, they can prevent enemy players by killing them, or they can manage some rules for "no-pvp-apez" and with helping them to gather spawned stuff.

 With combination with point d) 1/ or 2/ it could bring new kind of PvP style outside of TC capturing windows.

 f) memebers of possesor gang would get double bonus to crafting items in city workbench

[zuhardu]

TC capturing time windows suck, it will lead to swarms and less players online when you can't TC. I realise that people have work or school but it's not my concern. If a player will play 16 hour per day shouldn't be punished because another player can only play 3-4, actually, he should be rewarded, he is playing the game. If I had to follow time windows logic, we should only level a character 1 hour per day and have cooldown after beucause there are players out there that have to work and they can't play as much. So to be fair to them, you can only level characters one hour so your leveling time can be matched by others. That is just stupid, free town controll every day, every hour, every minute. 

LE: Delete militia totally, they are way to strong and provide material for trolls and exploiters. Bigger rewards in chests, you are controlling a town not controlling a Geko Caravan. The gear lost by only one player is matched by chest reward in hours, so that is not fair.

[Black Key]

I also think that "TC capturing time windows sucks !". In real life, if you can attack your ennemy while he's sleeping, you do it, you dont think "Oh no my god ! It's not fair !".

Wasteland is suppose to be worst than real life.

So if it's just a new rule to please those who fail to realize their projetcs, it's bullshit. If you want to keep a town 24/7 during months just for you, it's a real project which need a lot of players. If you don't have them, just forget your "idea" or try something who fit to the size of your team/alliance.

If it's a rule to please those who don't like fights and to limit the time of fight in game.... There is enough cities and places in which there is no fight at all.

If you just wanna fight, you don't care if someone else take the control of "your city" while you're sleeping. You just know that if it's happened, you'll have fun the day after...

And some new/small teams/groups use to attack at 6am and after at 11am (i'm often connected at that time) and I really don't see why they could not enjoy/test TC while the big "GMT+1" teams are sleeping/working/studying. It gives also fun to the few guys of the "GMT+1 teams" who are not living in the GMT+1 zone and who defend the cities at that moment so... NO !!!   (I travel a lot.... )

[sowol]

4 me, tcs have to be. The Redding should be like it was, before set there ncrs. When u lead the city, npcs shouldnt atack u even if u got minus carma with them, cos u lead the city.