Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Chrupek]

Thats not good idea, to make BG weaker. Lets think about real pvp between guy with sniper rifle and BG guy. Do your really think that sniper can make 2x eyes aiming shots, while bg can hit one burst? No sense at all.

However, seems reasonable to make encounter maps bigger next wipe. When map is 40hexes from spawn point to exit grid, chances of sniper with sniper rifle  increases. But in TB this will mean loooooong battles, so i have another suggestion: no 30secs turns, but time of each turn is based on your action points. For 16 APs burster it should be 16seconds. For 8 APs crafter, should be 8 seconds. And of course 2x or even 4x quicker turns for critters (you know, like computer moves in HoMM3 for example).

[Rascal]

my crippler can own ur pistolero or sniper with easy.... (fov 50, 40range rifle/24range pistol) just make good build and stop looking excuses

[BadBoy.]

Gauss in proper hands is IMBA gun.

Ok, maybe. It doesn't cost much APs to shoot with it. Haven't played with one.

I've played with 6 21-lvl chars. I tried to make the best non-BG char, but even the most powerful is weaker than my 200-hp-16AP-2-burst-BG.
2-eye shot sniper (sniper rifle, .223 pistol) has to little hps to live after 2 LSW bursts, one shot sniper with high EN will die anyway, cuz his one shot NEEDS to be a critical hit.

Crippler will probably have low sequence OR low hps OR low skill (possible to fight efficiently only in close range). BGs which have a lot of APs still have high EN and are fighting well on close and long range efficiently.
And I'm pretty sure you die (or enemy manages to escape) most of the times when you come into the BG's encouter (like camping in TB).


What I wanna say (but you don't listen, because you love owning with BGs or are "pretty happy" with other anti-BG builds) is that 2 bursts with LSW are more painful than 2 sniper shots. Cuz even with 25-35% crit chance they can be like only "30dmg hits" few times in a row (while burst is stable dmg at most times) and you want to nerf it anyway.

My only hope is that AC/skill needed to hit will work for snipers (they, of course when having enough skill, should hit easier a target than burster does with his heavy weapon). That a burst vs. armored char will not be as deadly as it is now (cuz armor should prevent from taking dmg, right?).

[Johnnybravo]

Thats not good idea, to make BG weaker. Lets think about real pvp between guy with sniper rifle and BG guy. Do your really think that sniper can make 2x eyes aiming shots, while bg can hit one burst? No sense at all.

Why don't you just try random FPS game? Try wasting 20 ammo of average gun (be it for example M4 in counterstrike ) or do 2 shots with random sniper rifle which is capable of semi-automatic fire (eg. Sig Sauer 552).
Bursting 2 times in row with Light Support Weapon requires 12(14)AP with(without) BROF, while two eyeshots with sniper rifle takes 14(16)AP with(without) BROF.

Definetly nothing new in computer gaming.

[Chrupek]

Johnnybravo,
And whats your point? Im just saying that making lsw burst 8, or 9ap isnt good solution. We should just make maps larger, to give snipers chances to manage killing bg.

[BadBoy.]

His point is that an average sniper in cs, cod4 etc. can shoot 2 times faster than other guy burst 20 bullets. And here costs less.
I think it is the best solution we can think of. Requirements is the only thing we can really change.

Larger maps won't do, because:
- some maps are really ok, but you resp in the middle anyway (perception doesn't really affects it that much)
- you will nerf pistoleros/cripplers instead of not nerfing snipers

Isn't nerfing the most powerful ones a solution to balance overall?

[Rascal]

someone just dont understad that 4example near SF/boneyard (urban encounter) snipers are worth shit couse of terrain, only bg/criplers are usefull there. But in open space encounters (hub/ncr) specialy with some cover like tree/cactus u can kill those "imba" bg builds without even being seen. Just use ur range - play ur build right.

[DocAN.]

Just use ur range - play ur build right.

There is nothing else to add.

[BadBoy.]

It's quite obvious to me that such ideas will be boycotted, because nobody would like to see how somebody else is nerfing his favourite, inderstructible 2 burst BG.
But when snipers whine that you're trying nerf their critical hits, it's "not a problem".
I believe that developers know what is best for players, but you can not say we have no right to propose something new, just because you don't like our ideas and "we can't play". And changes shouldn't eliminate some classes just because admins and many other people don't play with them. Some do.

If wipe brings more people, then it's ok. But someone just doesn't understand that for example at the moment only players are near SF.

P.S. In an open space encounter you still resp (with 12 pe) in the middle, so don't tell me about terrain.

[Jotisz]

I think bigger maps and the ability to have a chance to chose spawn point would solve it all. To make fighting balanced players need covers. The warzone map at Hinkley is a nice example with good tactic sg user can win he just need to run for covers use the element of surprise and find good covers (still a pvp build have more chance then a normal character).

[BadBoy.]

ability to have a chance to chose spawn point would solve it all.

Thumb up.

If you totally nerf snipers, I will use BG as well, no problem. But it would be nice to see more builds than just BGs and anti-BGs (like close range tough cripplers), don’t you think?

[Rascal]

In an open space encounter you still resp (with 12 pe) in the middle, so don't tell me about terrain.

i just cant read such bullshit sorry, can u image 1 single sniper who is going RAMBO into another players trap ? dont whine about snipers are weak if u dont know how to play... gezaas

[BadBoy.]

I see you still don't understand what I'm saying.
Snipers aren't weak, they're just harsh to well arrange and BGs are too easy.

...

[Chrupek]

Jotisz said it nicely.
Comparing SG and BG is unfair. You can reorganise AP (for example, make eyes aiming shot, cost same AP as arm/leg aiming shot) but this will just leading to another perfect build. No matter what build would be, people just start to make this build (for now is BG, because is simple to lvlup and get gun/ammo. But after drastic changes it could be pistoller).
But making enviornment a little bit more random, will creates new possiblities. Maybe new tactics. This could bring new players. Nerfing something, definately wont do that.

[kttdestroyer]

Also I still hope the game will ever be possible without action points in RT and things like aiming time would ever be visible. (eg. 7AP shot would take nearly twice as much time as 3AP shot to go off) So that it makes sense to have various AP costs.

http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=9823.msg83512#msg83512

I tried, i really did