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No, that stuff takes hours to reinstall!

5 (21.7%)

Sure, I have plenty of time to reinstall everything weekly/daily.

7 (30.4%)

I might for awhile but, I bet I would get tired of it.

7 (30.4%)

I don't know.

4 (17.4%)

Total Members Voted: 23

Voting closed: June 27, 2011, 03:08:12 am

[Trias]

Seriously your discussion is going to nowhere and i strongly doubt that any guy gets interest in read this whole boring stuff.
Also we are in the end of our pwnzement era, a whole new update is coming (not soon of course). Soon (hahaha) you will have many new stuff to be disagree with. Cry because some actual feature or system is wrong is useless now, everything now is abusable and devs will not change anything until everything is done.

If you think going on a forum and sharing your views, no mater how valid or invalid boring then you probably cease to log on. It's a forum. People talk.

[Trokanis]

No where in this thread is it stated by me that PvP needs to stop.  And I know how scary it is for some of you to think about change, but the current system isn't working, and it hasn't worked.  Partially because of lack of established features, and because so many people drop off so quickly because of the pk abuse issue.  If GM's can see it, and many players can see it, maybe I'm not completely crazy.

There has to be some way to strike a balance.  Maybe not being able to jump someone that's 5 lvls lower unless they hit you first?  Perhaps if we try to think of ways to achieve this, rather than just saying "Pk fine more loot for me no challenge yay!"

Stration, did you never finish Fallout 1 and 2? Say for example that Pk was banned unless in TC (which is again not what I won't) Then you would have players like my friends and new people who join, playing, lvling up, scaving, delving in the glow(and later places),  and trying out TC... But wait isn't that what this game is about?

Reiniat, as Gatling said the net allows for a lot of the people to be unreasonable than they might be in say normal life.  So a thread on the net isn't going to go as smooth as a normal debate.

Yoz, yeah I was being insistent.  I will try to be more flexible but it's difficult when few others are.

Trias, Many pk's that I and people I have spoken with go around for the soul purpose of killing everything that moves, the lower the better taking their stuff and moving on.  If you spend any amount of time getting the gear you just lost, that's time you don't get back.  And when it can happen just because some punk is all full of pent up rage about something and is just out for kicks, it's in the least very annoying, and for many people not fun.

T-888, the discussion is about the fact that as stated by many people the current system which whether on purpose or not caters to the depraved.  And is in no small part a factor in the lack of a population.  (And maybe you should read the thread so you know what we're actually talking about.)

Zuhardu, you bring up a point as Swing did, it's a beta, it's not finished.  You however seem to have trouble realizing that the difficulty of the game is NOT in question.  This game is quite easy, in essence.  It is the fact that there is no scale when it comes to a lowbie and a capped pk.  With the fact that so many people follow with the depraved style of game play, you can't walk hardly anywhere without bumping into a PK that's hyped up and blows you away.  No amount of knowledge of the game can change this fact.  (I think Gatling mentioned this point, and I later reiterated it.)  The fact that you see an attempt to debate and a perhaps find a solution to an aspect of a beta-test as crying, seems to indicate you might be missing that this is a test.

[Gatling]

If GM's can see it, and many players can see it, maybe I'm not completely crazy.

It was my position more as a player than a GM, as I have always been more active as a normal player in-game(though usually without all this gang stuff/anti-pk/pk hangups people seem to have).  It hasn't been enjoyable for awhile as a solo players position, and this was from an Established position. I had a few alts, a crafter, a few fun ones, my own base, caps, etc.  So its not like I had nothing, had to scrape to get what I wanted, I enjoyed a rather leisurely gaming experience(after working to get my own base that is, hah).  I still lose stuff rather often, but losing stuff isnt really a bad thing.  You can still die in-game, and enjoy yourself. 

I enjoy the pvp, but have not really had fun with it this wipe for a bit since the solo pvp'er was rather shit upon with a rising list of changes. Still try, yes, but its more mixed than it should be. Oh well, and DESPITE my bitching, I still try to enjoy myself, and do at times.

...Just not as much as I should, which is puzzling, as I do like the game. So it's at a point of being, "I like this. I know I like this. But why the hell is this crap just more annoying than fun?"  Anyway.  Again, I'unno what other GMs opinions on it are, I still, to this day play normally more than GM duties(mainly because whenever I am on GM name, theres almost never reqhelps, and its boring just sittin' on my GM char waiting for that), so that is again my little opinion on it.


The game can appeal to everyone, when its balanced out. And it will, in time, I just hope I am patient enough to wait until then. Probably(I think), as I still am here despite the craptacular clusterfuck of pvp.

[Trokanis]

I hereby ask forgiveness from Gatling for placing reference on him solely as a GM. 

The game can appeal to everyone, when its balanced out. And it will, in time, I just hope I am patient enough to wait until then. Probably(I think), as I still am here despite the craptacular clusterfuck of pvp.

So I will say that players can see that there is an issue.

I'm open to thoughts from anyone on how we might strike some form of balance.  I'm sure someone other than me has some kind of idea.

[None]

Personal karma, what depends on player to player behavior, visible to everyone as name colorizing(example: red-orange-white-lightgreen-green). No artificial ingame limitations. Its balance of player maintaining his own name, reputation in wasteland. You like grouping and other social attributes of this game? Then you would care about your personal karma to be in positive numbers - Green. You like pking and trolling other players? You can still group and do other stuff as anyone else, but becouse your name is red you cant expect trust from random players.
There wouldnt be any positive effect in killing other players - You are at max green and your enemy is in max red values, by killing him you wouldnt get any +/-0 points to your karma, but if his karma aint that bad you would get negative values, if his karma is in green aswell you would think twice to lose your karma for one kill. Abuse would be prevented by demands/work to get positive values. The higher your karma is the higher impact has your bad behavior on it. Easier way to go down, harder to go up with your karma.
 Is it that one step from harshness to gameplay, balance without any restrictions to player freedom.

[Trias]

People also mention that in real life people don't act like that. This is true, but computer games are a form of escapism from real life so that we can do the things that we never could in reality.

I'm not a PKer, I get more out of a guy saying thanks than I do burst firing some randomer in the face. That's just a personal preference. Other people really enjoy murdering blue suits. Neither style is a 'wrong' way of playing the game and I for one applaud the fact that you can pretty much play how you want.

[None]

But if you dont know who to trust in random encouters, its pretty one-sided decision.

And you can imagine if some newcomer finaly meets some live soul full of hope runnin towards to say hello, what kind of welcome he gets. Pretty discouraging for further play.
This cant be basis of healthy MMO.

[Trias]

But if you dont know who to trust in random encouters, its pretty one-sided decision.

And you can imagine if some newcomer finaly meets some live soul full of hope runnin towards to say hello, what kind of welcome he gets. Pretty discouraging for further play.
This cant be basis of healthy MMO.

Why not? We're all still playing and I can guarantee that it's happened to 99% of people here on the forum. At the end of the day if a guy logs in just to see what's going on he's more than likely going to leave for one reason or another eventually anyway.

[None]

Well the difference i see is what anyone imagine under word "healthy". I imagine game of growing population where people cooperate to achieve their goals and have fun together. On the other side there are guys who imagine the logical animal line of the stronger will survive, in this case having fun on another people accounts until they leave this game in boredom, its some kind of asocial troll thinking when the elite trolls survive and grow fat by eating others and in their favor the game is build right now, so any casual player who accidentally strays into this game and such a first impression can discourage him becouse hes not that hardy yet.
But those trolls are against themselfs becouse more people = more fun(food).

[Trokanis]

Yes a game is a form of escapism, but only if that game is enjoyable.  Right now really only one style of play is rewarded and in a form to those people enjoyable.  And even they are having trouble enjoying it because for some reason there are hardly any players online.  We're not trying to say one style is right and one is wrong.  What is being said here, is that the way things currently work in game, haven't helped the game grow, and have become focused almost entirely on one form of game play. 

This is a test so would it really hurt to try a different system?

[Slaver Snipe]

Is that poll trying to equate losing everything on your computer to being pk'd and losing stuff in the game? If so i believe you have mental health problems for trying to make a comparison like that.

[Swinglinered]

This is a test so would it really hurt to try a different system?

More WoW-like = more players?

[Trokanis]

Swing, have you played WoW?  PvP in there is constantly filled with people camping low lvl areas killing all the quest givers, guards, and quest monsters that people need, along with any fool lowbie that happens to attack them.  Sounds kinda like this game huh?  And again I know that it's hard to really consider something when people are so frightened by it, but I am not saying no PvP in all areas, and I never said that my suggestion had to be implemented EXACTLY as I wrote it.  It's an 'idea' to see if more than just a few brains can come together and find out a way to help this game have a chance at living and bringing in more people to play it.

Snipe, it's fairly reasonable actually because many people get on the net for fun, and the poll '?' doesn't sound like a bunch of fun does it?  Losing hours of work, anything new you may have done, and having to start it all over again from the beginning.  Sure you may have back ups but it still causes a lot of time to be lost in the same repetitive fashion.  And to have no real choice in the matter, other than not using it.  People come to this game for fun and to escape, and if that involves a revolving door of replication screens, and having to rework for whatever you have managed to scrape together (barring the major gangs that just give you stuff.) again and again, sounds kinda similar.  So yeah in my 'head' I don't think that's fun and certainly hasn't done much to help this game grow.

I have asked the people I know who have quit, or have at least stopped playing in hopes that a better system may come in a future wipe.  Not a single one has said they left because of lack of content.  Every one of them left because unless they joined a huge gang and followed them around like puppies, they were constantly set back hours of work, in most cases having it happen daily.  When you're not even able to be safe crafting your first weapon while holding your precious leather jacket from Buster, you have to wonder why people get frustrated.  Sure at low lvls even the npcs can woop your ass, but smart people know how to avoid that.  And losing your stuff to a computer ai, is a hell of a lot different then having a real person intentionally take it from you, especially when you know for a fact they will not get anything for it, but the lulz of taking out another weaker person.

[Swinglinered]

Swing, have you played WoW?  PvP in there is constantly filled with people camping low lvl areas killing all the quest givers, guards, and quest monsters that people need, along with any fool lowbie that happens to attack them.

I meant Full Loot and the Pkers attacking first.

I think we might get more players if those 2 things were curbed.
Maybe have it level based: 90% protection at Lv1, minus 10% per level (As long as you don't attack first).
No protection once you hit Lv 10 or 11.

But that only counts for retaining equipped items and loot up to 1000 caps base value.
(So we don't get Lv1 Barter alts for couriering piles of valuables)

The protection could be hit% and DR (vs attacking PK only), as well as some kind of Karma/Tagging system.
It would only apply to characters 3+ levels higher than you, but some Karma system for PKing and killing townspeople (in addition to Reputation) at all levels.
I would make it realistic, though- no Telepathy, but also taking into account the power of Word-Of-Mouth. (Also the fact taht FO has some mystical stuff in the form of Karma)

It's lame-ish, but I'd put up with it if it meant more players.

Perhaps sweeten the pot- RT monster speed is 50% at Lv 1, plus 5%/level to full amount, and Battle Timer for hitting exit grids is Zero at Lv 1 then +10% per level to full amount.

Some bonuses:
Gathering: 1 XP per personally gathered material at Lv1, per 2 items at lv2, per 3 at Lv 3, etc.
May stop at Lv 10 or earlier, or go on to lvl cap.

Crafting: 1 XP per craft (not per item in a batch), including intermediate materials such as Gunpowder and Metal Parts. At Lv2 goes down to per 2 craftings, etc.
 May stop at Lv 10 or earlier, or go on to lvl cap.

Repeatable PostMan quests between towns for 100 caps and 50 xp plus 10 XP/caps per square of distance (straight line distance). Extra bad Karma and Reputation for killing or even attacking PostMen.

[Slaver Snipe]

I'm curious what these being set back "hours" of work entails, losing a metal armor? 5 minutes of decent farming losing a decent gun? 2 minutes of farming. I don't see how they lose "hours" unless for some strange reason they run around with stacks of BA and pray not to get killed. If for some reason it takes you "hours" to farm that it seems to me like it's a problem with their builds/farming strategy and they should improve upon that instead of trying to add some hello kitty into the game.