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No, that stuff takes hours to reinstall!

5 (21.7%)

Sure, I have plenty of time to reinstall everything weekly/daily.

7 (30.4%)

I might for awhile but, I bet I would get tired of it.

7 (30.4%)

I don't know.

4 (17.4%)

Total Members Voted: 23

Voting closed: June 27, 2011, 03:08:12 am

[Trokanis]

I'm still catching up on all the posts, this thread seems rather proliferated from just last night when I seen it. Anyway, as I read on the new ones, I wanted to point out a few things.  Ignorance is not to be confused with stupidity.  Not knowing the game does not make one a moron.  That's just bullshit.  Now, you could argue that "They have wiki, they should know about the game and everything in it blahblahblah," except that is Never a valid argument. One should Not have to go read a wiki/whatever entirely Just to be able to enjoy the game. Hell, even after that, there's so many damn nuances in the game that its still rather difficult for anyone new without someone to explain shit to them. 

Sadly, People are assholes if given anonymity, it caters to a certain, dark aspect of ourselves and lets us speak and act like we normally never would without the fears of repercussions.  This phenomenon is not new.  That really is not the problem, but the gameplay almost seems to encourage or at least enable the Grife to an extreme extent.  This is not conducive to introducing new people to the game or even retaining them.  I don't give a shit for others reasoning: its a game, it is meant to be played.  Having it cater to a little niche of certain hardcore players is stupid if thats the 'plan' (and I don't really think it is, it's just that the present development has enabled this to a horrid degree and has never been repaired). 

Through design, bugs, and the general apathy of the Internet, we have at present a game that attracts little and loses much, including my own interest. Game is Broken right now and hope some of the issues will be redressed in the future.  It is stagnating right now and I myself am patiently waiting for (hopefully) fixes that will eventually arrive. Until then, the best I can describe the game for me right now is "Blah."

...Much longer than I thought it'd be, oh well.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

This thread is not about the banks/interest thing, take that elsewhere. 

This thread isn't about the 'hardness' of the game.  Please comprehend what the issue is.  The fact is the ABUSE wrought on the new players and the non-pvp style players.  This is Fallout not Quake. 

I choose to not reiterate -again- the basic points of this fact, especially since Gat said it so very well.

I will however again state that I'm not talking about getting rid of pvp.  I actually enjoy PvP in a balanced system, when both sides have a reasonably equal chance of win/lose.  There are some situations where equal won't mean diddly, like being outnumbered in TC.  But even in that case some strategy can help you.  The rest is just broken.

[yoz]

I will however again state that I'm not talking about getting rid of pvp.  I actually enjoy PvP in a balanced system, when both sides have a reasonably equal chance of win/lose.  There are some situations where equal won't mean diddly, like being outnumbered in TC.  But even in that case some strategy can help you.  The rest is just broken.

Which are the two sides that you want to have an equal chance of winning/losing? A crafter build and a pvper build?

[Johnnybravo]

Seriously guys you need to start posting more balanced views. The game is harsh for newbies and you know why? IT'S A GAME THEY HAVEN'T PLAYED BEFORE. I recently bought Mortal Kombat 9 and went online... Guess what I got owned. It's the same damn thing.

This is however not true, and I bet you can practice MK whatvernumber to some degree with computer opponents. There is no way to do that in FOnline, because it's so much different to original SP games that's not even nice - and that without really changing anything from it's SPECIAL.

As I said, newbie will not try to stockpile all the things in wasteland, but probably will try to achieve something first and grow stronger. He'll not care to have stack of 10 plasma rifles in his tent, but will want to be high level being able to obtain plasma rifles each day.

Better crafting will fix a lot, and it takes to fix encounters (including those pvp, but those are relatively rare) as well as player interaction alone. It's just so easy to kill/steal from/shame unsuspecting newbie, they might not even enjoy the fact they're not alone in the world. Constant danger is fine, should it be your design, however it resulted in constant grieving and little has been done with it (we could thank for example for giving guards sniper rifles instead of assault rifles).

Banks don't do shit. Making people get used loosing stuff because they can just buy new is the worst idea I've ever saw.

[Trokanis]

Yoz, The balance I speak of, is between a way lower lvl character and a capped.  Perhaps not being able to kill them at all unless they shoot you first.  The point is simple the system as it is, is broken.  The thread in my sig has many ideas on what could be changed.

This game isn't just harsh for newbies, it's harsh for ANYONE not a capped pk build of some form.  And the crafting system isn't as much of an issue.  It doesn't matter how you get the items, it's that they can be stripped away in any number of fashions before you even make it to your tent, or town to sell/use them.

As Gat said, it's a game that is meant to be played by not just one small 'niche' of people who do it one way, but a variety of people with differing play styles.  Kinda like um you know, Fallout?

[yoz]

Yoz, The balance I speak of, is between a way lower lvl character and a capped.  Perhaps not being able to kill them at all unless they shoot you first.  The point is simple the system as it is, is broken.  The thread in my sig has many ideas on what could be changed.

You want a lv21 and a lv1 to have an equal chance of winning/losing? You want to disable killing people who are below 21???

There is nothing broken about the system. It seems like you want to break the system to better fit your own playing style.

[Swinglinered]

Of course this is a beta and the content has not been added.

[Jotisz]

You want a lv21 and a lv1 to have an equal chance of winning/losing? You want to disable killing people who are below 21???

There is nothing broken about the system. It seems like you want to break the system to better fit your own playing style.

I think the whole problem could be solved with death count I mean each char for every 24 hour has a number of deaths he can take at lvl21 it would be 2 then if the char reach that its gets deleted. Can be abused yeah but right now there is no down side to death just a respawn timer and some gear that lost which is nothing at higher levels. Of course at lower levels players should have a lot of death count (maybe around 100 at lvl 1) but as they progress they should get less and less. To make it a bit better since there are some blowers and bursters at guarded cities it could be made that those locations doesn't count and at unprotected places it applies invidually like for example lvl21 go to camp the Gecko mine he dies there if he goes back and die again he gets deleted but he can go and camp V13 since there he can die 1 time too.

Btw if someone looks at Jagged Alliance 2 which in my opinion has the best combat system then its easy to see that the level or experience is second to tactics. With good tactics 4-5 lower level player should be able to kill a level 21 guy no matter what build he has or its rt or tb fight
Also enemies need a boost one guy shouldn't be able to kill more then 3 armed person so he should fight them more then once to finish them like when someone needs a tactical withdraw in JA2 then enters the same sector from a different side and do another ambush (this can't be implemented I fear).
Now situations like above can't happen thanks to the huge hp difference a great solution would be to give a maxed starting hp and change the life giver to give a fix amount of hp (it has been changed to that as I know). Going with max hp from start would make a chance for more and better PvP (sadly I'm not a fan of it but other would surely like to have more fight).

I think one of these would solve the issues of to much  quiting. Probably the second one would be better since the first can be overcome with making 20 combat alt with same build and fast reloging which isn't nice but can happen.

[Trokanis]

Yoz, please 'carefully' read this thread and most notably Gatling's post (and possibly the thread in my sig so you can maybe understand).  The system is broken, period. 

The fact that lvl 21's can go around and constantly destroy the gameplay of way lower lvl characters has in fact killed this game (if I want that style of play I'll play WoW)  I don't want a lvl 1 to be able to take out a 21, or the other way around.  A situation may arise where a lvl 1 attacks a 21 in the wastes and that is their own fault and they should accept that they will be killed.  The simple fact that there is -zero- chance for a lvl 1 to survive an encounter with an armed capped pk is the issue.  And as far as the play style is concerned, again read Gatling's post.  I know you're afraid that you may have to start working for your kills if things change, but this game is dying as is.

A Kill limit on pk's won't solve the issue because people don't normally get killed by the same pk over and over.  There are Hundreds of them. (well not anymore atm)  The issue is as stated above.  Surf has said it, Gatling has said it, It's believed that this game is not intended for one style of play, like in the essence of the original games.

[Stration]

Btw if someone looks at Jagged Alliance 2 which in my opinion has the best combat system then its easy to see that the level or experience is second to tactics.

That's because Jagged Alliance 2 offers countless tactical possibilities that Fallout doesn't (crouching, proning, different types of grenades which can be thrown even if you don't see your target, moving backwards, mortars, remote explosives that can be used to blow up doors/walls, landmines, camouflage, etc, etc). It's in no way connected to your starting amount of hit points, I assure you.

The fact that lvl 21's can go around and constantly destroy the gameplay of way lower lvl characters has in fact killed this game

Let's say PK'ing gets banned. I'll tell you what would happen. All PK's and anti-PK's would leave the server. You and your friends would come back to the game and happily collect stuff for a day or two. Then you would quit, saying that the game is boring, 100% predictable, and offers no challenge at all, plus there's nobody playing. The server would be shut down, the end. Sad but true.

[Jotisz]

That's because Jagged Alliance 2 offers countless tactical possibilities that Fallout doesn't (crouching, proning, different types of grenades which can be thrown even if you don't see your target, moving backwards, mortars, remote explosives that can be used to blow up doors/walls, landmines, camouflage, etc, etc). It's in no way connected to your starting amount of hit points, I assure you.

If you have equal hp with someone and you have covers then you can easily win in the fight and with equal I mean both has around 160-200 hp well even with 120 hp you can win if you can use tactics (it can work mostly in city maps sadly not enough cover at other places). The missing of stance and the fire only on creatures really makes it harder thats why I said maxed out hp at start. Starting amount of hp only matters because with 30 hp no matter what but a player can't kill someone who stand in the open wide and has 200 hp even if he has a sure win possition.
Fallout tactics made a quite good combat system based on the first two game and it was quite fun though not as challenging as JA with only one merc in the hardest setting. The multi player fight there was pretty good six lower leveled char could finish a higher level one or make him suffer a bit.
Fonline needs a lot of upgrade on maps for combat tactics. Every enc should have bigger map and a lot of cover.

[zuhardu]

Let's say PK'ing gets banned. I'll tell you what would happen. All PK's and anti-PK's would leave the server. You and your friends would come back to the game and happily collect stuff for a day or two. Then you would quit, saying that the game is boring, 100% predictable, and offers no challenge at all, plus there's nobody playing. The server would be shut down, the end. Sad but true.

+1 clear as daylight

The system is broken, period. 

FOnline does not have a broken system, you cannot play on a broken system. FOnline is a beta game with balanced and unbalanced aspects and devs that do this for fun/free. Of course I would love too that every bug to be fixed in a matter of days and to see new content added every week, but this is imposible.

Crying about the high levels that make the game harder for other players is bullshit too. Some people around here get the impresion that pro pvpers get their 21 lvl character when they log in the game for the first time... We all had low level characters, we all leveled, we all got killed in the game, we all lost gear. Also, speaking of gear and low level characters, a pvper loses more gear and has to level more characters than a casual player could only dream of. How they can do that without crying all day on forums? Simple: THE PLAY THE GAME! They don't write 100 posts for every level they earn, they dont start bitching about every in-game death, they don't believe that this game is suposed to have the same amount of "fairness" beetween a guy that has been playing for a week and a guy that is two years old in the game. You want the game to be fair with you? Then i suggest to start playing it! You want to be cuddled, protected and to get on screen tips at every 5 minutes? Then what the f*** are you doing here? Guess what!? Every single guy that kills you in this game was in your shoes at some point. In FOnline we learn things the hard way and that is why most of us love the game. I will repeat myself, the game is only hard to get to know it, is not hard to play it after that.

[Trias]

Yoz, please 'carefully' read this thread and most notably Gatling's post (and possibly the thread in my sig so you can maybe understand).  The system is broken, period. 

The fact that lvl 21's can go around and constantly destroy the gameplay of way lower lvl characters has in fact killed this game (if I want that style of play I'll play WoW)  I don't want a lvl 1 to be able to take out a 21, or the other way around.  A situation may arise where a lvl 1 attacks a 21 in the wastes and that is their own fault and they should accept that they will be killed.  The simple fact that there is -zero- chance for a lvl 1 to survive an encounter with an armed capped pk is the issue.  And as far as the play style is concerned, again read Gatling's post.  I know you're afraid that you may have to start working for your kills if things change, but this game is dying as is.

A Kill limit on pk's won't solve the issue because people don't normally get killed by the same pk over and over.  There are Hundreds of them. (well not anymore atm)  The issue is as stated above.  Surf has said it, Gatling has said it, It's believed that this game is not intended for one style of play, like in the essence of the original games.

But no one is constantly going around 'destroying' game play. This isn't a game where the second you walk out of NCR you get PKed. PKers are a factor of the game and yes it does happen every so often even to the most cautious.

It's an important factor in this game and makes it even more enjoyable, it actually makes the fact that you are still living fun which every other game fails at. Most other games force you into avenues of 'fun' but in this game simply being alive gives off a certain amount of adrenaline.

What do you want to happen? PK is only for level 21's? That would just change the game into a carebear world. Only certain areas for PvP? tell you what let's stop every hostile action in the game other than in one specific area. Again, another dull game.

Some of he most exciting times I've had is when I'm in an encounter and another has joined and I've had to judge if he's going to attack or he's just curious. Yeah alot of the times they did blow me away but that's the whole damn point of free PvP the rush of the unknown.

This is coming from a currently non pvper

[yoz]

Yoz, please 'carefully' read this thread and most notably Gatling's post (and possibly the thread in my sig so you can maybe understand).  The system is broken, period.

I see. Adding "period" after your statement made it true. Solid argument, I can't argue with that.

[T-888]

Many people don't play this game for the PvP aspect.  But EVERYONE of them is punished by it...

Hardly read the first page don't want to go really deep into all these posts , but I still don't understand one thing..... nothing came into my mind reading first page....

What do you want ? Maybe the game is not for you , too harsh please.... it's a piece of candy if you know how.

[Reiniat]

bla bla blabla blabla....etc

Seriously your discussion is going to nowhere and i strongly doubt that any guy gets interest in read this whole boring stuff.
Also we are in the end of our pwnzement era, a whole new update is coming (not soon of course). Soon (hahaha) you will have many new stuff to be disagree with. Cry because some actual feature or system is wrong is useless now, everything now is abusable and devs will not change anything until everything is done.