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No, that stuff takes hours to reinstall!

5 (21.7%)

Sure, I have plenty of time to reinstall everything weekly/daily.

7 (30.4%)

I might for awhile but, I bet I would get tired of it.

7 (30.4%)

I don't know.

4 (17.4%)

Total Members Voted: 23

Voting closed: June 27, 2011, 03:08:12 am

[Ganado]

In my experience, the majority of new players that quit are the ones that don't know anything else to do other than shovel brahmin shit, they have not obtained a tent yet, and have a crappy build.

The problem isn't that their build isn't a "PvP-only build", their build lacks the necessities of playing; they, for example, might have 5 Luck, or 5 Endurance, or 4 Charisma, or multiple combat skills, or have a skill like Barter tagged.

Of course, there are many knowledge resources out there, but obviously a lot of new players do not read them. Laziness might be the reason for some, but others are just ignorant of how to get the information. I'm glad to see that the developers put a note about Opera's character planner as one of the headlines, though.

There needs to be more information, for example through dialogue, in the actual game. Almost every player that is starting talks to the NPCs in the three respawn points. These NPCs could give more tips on how to start, with still keeping the environment of the game intact. Something simple like "Oh, by the way, some wastelander was able to put up a decent tent using 10 or so brahmin hides he found...". Might be a bad example, but the point is there needs to be more tips in the actual game.

Speaking of brahmin hides, the most populated protected town is NCR, but around NCR, new players have a very, very difficult time obtaining brahmin hides. Okay, they read the wiki, and know how to get brahmin hides, but where are they? There are encounters on tiles bordering NCR that do have brahmin in them, but, at least for me, these encounters are quite rare. There needs to be more frequent brahmin encounters in towns closest to the three original spawn points. There are tons of brahmin near Modoc, but a new player spawning in NCR isn't going to know that, and isn't going to suffer to get it. They'll just quit.

Traders could also provide more brahmin hides, as a way to get them without having to use combat skills that most (unless they are unarmed) new players have almost none of.

An updated in-game list of commands would also be convenient, or at least in the F1 menu, link to the wiki's page.

This next idea might be a little odd, but there might also be a "random tip" as the game is on the title screen before you log in, similar to F3 and NV (except not during loading times, since this game doesn't take nearly as much RAM to load). It could be on by default, but easily be turned off in FOconfig.

Many people find the current travel speed to be very boring, but that will increase post-wipe, at least. And for the problem of encounters the same person X amount of times, I agree there should be something that let's you not encounter them on the same tile/encounter until X amount of minutes have passed. And since the world map speed is going to increase, the time you are on one tile will decrease, making this less of a problem post-wipe.

Just some of the ideas on the top of my head that I thought of to help noobs not ragequit so easily, and actually try to enjoy the beginning of the game.

[yoz]

Yoz it's been stated that this isn't supposed to be a PvP dominate game.  That is just one part of the game. 

I'm not mad that they have the advantage, since I have the advantage of not needing to have 50 alts to get a job done.  I'm speaking for the Frustrated players, me included that are tired of trying to do the Other parts of the game and being constantly struck by the whims of the passing pk'r.  It may be a scary thought but there are actual people on the other side of those characters getting abused at low lvls by the bored pks and lulz seekers.

Do you know what I am tired of? I am tired of trying to pk and constantly having to do the other parts of the game like repair, trade, farm, even craft... CRAFT! I am sick and tired of having to rely on the whims of the random crafter who doesn't craft and sell the things I want when I need them. It may be a scary thought, but there are actual people on the other side playing for lulz who are low on ammo because of lazy crafters.

[CaptOmg]

Dishonest Abe, I agree completly with this, with my first char I had to rely on Laser Tribal to get a tent.
Plus, there should be a couple more FLC banks, because for players who spawn in Vault City have a hard time living when they die and lose all their stuff.

[Slaver Snipe]

There is an flc in VC. Get a daypass or become a citizen.

[Trokanis]

Abe, a well informed slightly better built character is gonna make as much difference to a new player as a 10mm pistol and a desert eagle.  You seem to be missing the point, the builds are less of the problem than the fact that it is so easy to wipe out lowbies.  And even a balanced build will not stand up against an uber'd pk build.  It doesn't matter how much or how little you know about the game mechanics or how you build your char, because it doesn't change the basic fact, (You will be abused by pk's, and lulz seekers in the current system.)

Yoz, well the problem is someone chased away all the normal players that a certain type of people prey on.  There are people out there though trying to balance the system out to fix that problem. 

[Stration]

Fallout Online is not for casuals; it never was, and hopefully never will be (and that's the sole reason why many people, including me, are playing it).

If you're carrying more stuff on you than absolutely necessary, you deserve to lose it.

If, having escaped from a PK trap to the world map, instead of logging off/waiting for at least 15 minutes, you start walking to your tent/whatever other location right away, you deserve to be sucked back into that very same trap, and brutally raped, because you're either a jackass or a moron.

If you're trying to engage a PvP-ready opponent together with your non-PvP-ready low-level friends, instead of running (and I know for a fact that you tried to kill the guy, because you mentioned the fact of the guy actually using stimpaks), you all deserve to get owned like the noobs you are.

If you are not interested in PvP aspect of the game, and get massively butthurt every time you lose your painfully farmed gecko pelts/whatever crap you like to collect, I suggest you either man up and learn to deal with your losses, or play single player games instead. Nothing of value will be lost here, I assure you.

God, am I done listening to whining casuals!

If there are other guys leaving the game because "it is too harsh and unfair", they don't deserve to be here.

PRECISELY.

[Luther Blissett]

Fallout Online is not for casuals; it never was, and hopefully never will be (and that's the sole reason why many people, including me, are playing it).

I have difficulty understanding the problem with "casuals", as you put it. Sometimes for a while I might play a few hours every day, then sometimes just a few hours every few weeks, occasionally spend an entire day playing on it - mine a bit, craft a bit, find a few people and go hunting, sell (or give away) some armour in the nearest town, help some new players get their 10 Brahmin skins etc etc. I'm pretty sure that'd count as being "casual" (as opposed to playing it for 6 hours every day, every month).

Generally speaking, I play it because it's fun - and can't see why that means I shouldn't be playing it.

[aForcefulThrust]

Do you know what I am tired of? I am tired of trying to pk and constantly having to do the other parts of the game like repair, trade, farm, even craft...

Yeah... what he said

Casual players are nice though. I can see how this games harshness turns them off, but it's the same harshness that draws us hardcore gamers. I'm so tired of how most games developed today seem "dumbed down" for the casual player.

[zuhardu]

Here is a shock: FONLINE is not hard at all! The only thing that is hard is to get to know the game and his mechanics. That's why all fonliners tell new players not to quit, because they know that if you play the game enough you'll start to learn how easy is to get by in this game. Without stealing, in 2 months i had a bank account of 10 milions so don't tell me this game is hard. It is more unforgeving than other MMORPGs but is not hard.

Read the wiki, read the guides made by players, make some friends, learn to play and have fun. When I started to play FOnline I had no ideea what is a uberbuild but that didn't stopped me for a second to have the best time. Of course I was killed by players in all the possible ways, I lost my first CA to a bluesuit with a mauser, I ragequited many times, but that is the story of 95% of the FOnline comunity.

[Surf]

zuhardu is right on this point. Once you're over the inital getting-used to it feel, then I wouldn't really call the game hard, as there are items everywhere, easy to craft/farm etc, plenty of tips on the forum, a nice characterplaner and so on. It's mostly just the start of the game which might be a bit "harsh".

[Johnnybravo]

I think people wouldn't quit that much if encounters made some sense.

Good luck encountering robbers armed with smgs bursting anyone in moments, or any humanoids aiming for head and eyes - that was rarely if ever case in original fallout.
On the top of it, they'll have to crawl out of every nonsense in painfuly slow TB mode, or enjoy nearly unplayable CTB.
And when they finally estabilish some nice grinding place they'll have to deal with TB traps all around.

Imagine if players could just farm lvl 12 with ease, and then proceed to lvl 18 with new danger of PK traps, and since 18 they'd be targeted on random limbs by NPCs. It wouldn't be that easy, but would put player in situations they have chance to handle.

they have not obtained a tent yet, and have a crappy build

The tent is a lie! It's usefulness is overrated, and if anything really helps it's having bunch of teammates playing with you - this is not really anything you wouldn't expect from online game anyway, right?
There goes a problem with ubershitty interface for friend management and teaming up (how many times you just leave each other only because you've misclicked some button or did not know what some random icon means). It's questionable how this should really be done, because it's still fallout and going much further would make things like radios useless, though on other side there's just anything you can use out of game as well...
As for builds, this is in case of even old Fallout players, who usualy used builds with lower stats (eg. endurance was not big deal, in fact because player never took big amounts of damage like here), and had some RP skills they cannot use now. I don't know if it's possible, but wouldn't it make better sense just to remove things like barter instead of having skills doing absolutely nothing?

[Ganado]

Abe, a well informed slightly better built character is gonna make as much difference to a new player as a 10mm pistol and a desert eagle.  You seem to be missing the point, the builds are less of the problem than the fact that it is so easy to wipe out lowbies.  And even a balanced build will not stand up against an uber'd pk build.  It doesn't matter how much or how little you know about the game mechanics or how you build your char, because it doesn't change the basic fact, (You will be abused by pk's, and lulz seekers in the current system.)

The builds wasn't the main point of what I was talking about though. I'm alright with the PvP in encounters, and a newbie really shouldn't have a chance against a level 21 build. But with Outdoorsman, you can easily avoid traps like that. Most of the time, one can safely PvE without some drugged build landing in on them. With the increased speed post-wipe, it will be less annoying to travel more distance, too. And if you die, you can still just get a new gun and armor and fight some more. As zuhardu said, it is very easy to get loot once you know how to. The main point in what I wrote is that a good number of noobs just don't get where to start. Basic things like how to cut a tree are never once mentioned by NPCs in the actual game, which I think they should, and not have an outside source like a Wiki be the only source of information.

I don't know if it's possible, but wouldn't it make better sense just to remove things like barter instead of having skills doing absolutely nothing?

It'd be nice if those skill could do something, but the problem is alts. If you make Barter have an advantage, people will just make a 300% Barter all to get all the best deals, that's why they got rid of barter's usefulness with the fixed prices system.

[avv]

In my experience, the majority of new players that quit are the ones that don't know anything else to do other than shovel brahmin shit, they have not obtained a tent yet, and have a crappy build.

That's pretty much it.

Fallout Online is not for casuals; it never was, and hopefully never will be (and that's the sole reason why many people, including me, are playing it).

If you're carrying more stuff on you than absolutely necessary, you deserve to lose it.

If, having escaped from a PK trap to the world map, instead of logging off/waiting for at least 15 minutes, you start walking to your tent/whatever other location right away, you deserve to be sucked back into that very same trap, and brutally raped, because you're either a jackass or a moron.

If you're trying to engage a PvP-ready opponent together with your non-PvP-ready low-level friends, instead of running (and I know for a fact that you tried to kill the guy, because you mentioned the fact of the guy actually using stimpaks), you all deserve to get owned like the noobs you are.

If you are not interested in PvP aspect of the game, and get massively butthurt every time you lose your painfully farmed gecko pelts/whatever crap you like to collect, I suggest you either man up and learn to deal with your losses, or play single player games instead. Nothing of value will be lost here, I assure you.

God, am I done listening to whining casuals!

So instead of questioning half-ready features and participating in testing players should just stfu and adapt?
For example if the game encourages to carry as little as possible, it's a stupid feature. IMO it's very bad for gameplay if players are encouraged to praise the items but not give a damn about their lives. The reason is that if items are more expensive than life, it results in suicidal gameplay which deteriorates the feel of the game. Did you see suicide bluesuit scouts or looters in Fallout 2?

[Zozio]

Well it's way too late to start a list of people we know who have quit playing.  And I know so few people care, mostly because they don't understand that the loss of more players means the death of a game.  This fact is something that is a constant in every game anywhere.  Two more active players are gone.  I don't think I'm gonna fully quit but I'm pretty sure I won't be back til wipe.

The Cause.  We were out on mid lvl characters.  Headed home after an hour of fun, had a person drop in, one single person with a laser rifle could shoot 4 times in a round, was able to heal "I assume with a super stim" and still move/shoot 3 times.  Now I know this isn't like a hacked build it's just a jacked up drugged out pk build.  The problem is unless you're the same 'type' of build you get owned.  Then to TOP this all, one of managed to get away, moved into an entirely new zone and got pulled into that SAME encounter, and man was he jumped on like a fat man chasing a cupcake, not sure how either cause our bodies were on the other side of the map and he spawned right hand middle and ran as fast as he could.  4 shots dead... So after losing another hours worth of work they're gone.

Many people don't play this game for the PvP aspect.  But EVERYONE of them is punished by it...

One of the captions under the FOnline pic at the top of the forums says "Everything else is dead or dying."  And every day it becomes more true for the game itself...

This is a real problem: If one could enrich himself it would be a little equilibrated.

But banks have been virtually killed. And the little players work has been killed with tha stupid Ponzi scheme  (I have serious doubts about the reality of this Ponzi scheme initial implementation).

IMO this was the WORST error ever done by developpers in the whole Fonline history. A lot of players have quited the game since it.

Now what is the situation?

Rich players / alliance become richer and richer, and can pex over-optimized builds (jet , buffout, no strenght)....

Such builds NEED a strong economy to be playable: you can't loot, you need very expensive stuff, sometime EXTREMELY expensive stuff (Gauss).

Such characters are of course MUCH more powerful than even "normal" PVP powerbuild.

If there were a equilibration mechanism it would be fun, but there is not.

I am quite pessimist about the future of this server.

[zuhardu]

I agree about the bank interest and I have said this before: deleting bank interest will make things a bit harder for big gangs but will kill the casual players. Sadlly i see no fix for this, devs could delete interest after, lets say, 1 milion caps. But that will encourage alting once again. Now we have tent1, tent2, tent3, tent*, we really don't need bank1, bank2 etc.

Also, the "high-end" gear is not actually that hard to find, except gauss and that is good because it is the best weapon in the game. A interesting ideea would be to implement same level gear for bg and ew, also found only in special encounters.