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[Nice_Boat]

Also, in response to the THE ENTIRE SERVER WILL DIE block of text - would the same thing happen if all towns were guarded, but there was a PvP zone that corresponded to every town on the map? So there's more PvP locations than ever before, more evenly spread across the map?

I don't think it would. The only thing that would happen is the reduction in loot from people getting caught in the Crossfire. More PvP locations in a wider area means a gang can't control as many - meaning smaller gangs get a chance to compete. More people would engage in TC/PvP. I think that's a good thing.

Edit: OH GOD MORE IDEAS HOLD ONTO YOUR BUTTS

These external PvP locations are not only designed for combat, but also have a designated feature/resource. Capturing a location near Reno? Your gang now owns a Casino/Jet Production. Down toward the Boneyard? Small Gun Ammo production. All the way at Gecko? Energy cells. The Den? Your gang sells slaves. So on and so forth. Does that seem like an improvement on the system we have now?

Actually, that's a good idea but seriously now - do you actually realise how hard it is to make a good PvP map? It takes a crapload of work, and basically it all comes down to prioritizing the most important stuff. I mean if you think in abstract terms, there already is a division between the "PvP arena" part of the map and the "guarded stuff" part. Adding new guarded locations is not going to give you more content, it's going to mean that the devs will have to work on making the arenas instead of adding quests, dungeons, NPCs and other good stuff (which really should be the priority here). Besides, if you think about it, there's already too many locations for 200 people, so adding new ones would mean that the gameworld would become even less saturated with players which would further aggravate the "nobody plays here anymore" effect (I mean FFS, just look at the NCR and recall how it looked like 12 months ago). I'd rather have 6 locations in total with 3 being safe and 3 being controllabe with a crapload of people and stuff happening all the time than 16 neat, but empty places where you have to wait for 30 minutes to even meet a single player character.

I'd suggest reducing the gameworld to something like this: http://i51.tinypic.com/6854t4.jpg
... and going with 3 or 4 "real" cities (Reno, BH, VC, NCR) with 3 or 4 corresponding PvP arenas working as you suggested. The remaining locations would be mostly devoid of anything that could make the players want to stay there for prolonged periods of time and would mostly be used for questing, professions (more or less how Navarro and BOS are now) and maybe some cheap trading. That'd make the game much more lively, but sadly I don't think the devs would even consider adjusting the size of the game to the playerbase.

[Wichura]

Yay, flame! At last some entertainment.

I would love to see

player driven towns

but this never happen in longer period, because

It will be always better to just kill such player than not kill him.

Also don't forget about anti-PK-anti-anti-PK-anti-anti-blahblah crap, comfortable excuse to killing n00bz for teh lulz, no? "zOMFG u are outlaw!!!!11" and so on. Like killing for teh lulz would ever needs any explanation :>

And if they make trading/using services more profitable, you can just use alts and exploit the shit out of it.

Almost every feature can be abused by making an alt, yet no-one seems to be interested in getting rid of them. And I'm tired of suggesting same ideas over and over.

Who would crawl for an hours of real time to some gods-forgotten shithole far in the north anyway?

[Eternauta]

Nice_Boat: I don't understand your point. Because let's see: you say PVP IS THE ONLY FUCKING THING TO DO IN 2238 so if we make another town protected, then there would be less space for PvP. Okay, that makes sense (which means it's your opinion and it is clear). Problem is, you at the same time say we need more quests and RP-related stuff (which I agree with), but you fail to understand that people can't enter a town to complete a quest if the PVP PWNZORS WHO ARE THE ONLY ONES LEFT IN THIS GAME are pew pewing. So, that harms the activity "quests". And look at Redding. I know you are saying the devs should encourage RP ("somehow"), while Redding WWP project came from players. But anyway my point is, WWP project has met a lot of obstacles because the PVP PWNZORS WHO ARE THE ONLY ONES LEFT IN THIS GAME came and started pew pewing (and proxy-leading mercs, etc). So the activity "RP" is also harmed.

I forgot to answer to another thing you said in your first reply here. So you think I'll ragequit in a few months because of the PvP pwnzors? Cool story bro. Don't forget to admit you were wrong when you still see me here trying to ruin your game with my "Mad Max wannabe babycry" in the future

I wonder why you still play this game if PVP PEW PEWING IS THE ONLY FUCKING THING TO DO IN 2238. Btw, I enjoy PvP as well

...casinos...

Please, I want 2238 to be 2238, not isometric Fallout New Vegas (aka "lulz casino everywhere!" as some guy said on NMA).

[Michaelh139]

(and proxy-leading mercs, etc).

Enough with this instigating...  It's like everybody hit by a rocket from those mercs (sarcasm) are trying to get into trans-thread brawls.

[Eternauta]

Do you really think we are gonna stop mentioning that childish behaviour just because Michael the merc lover tells us to? But anyway, I trust the devs and the new merc leading system they are going to implement, and that is why it was just a very small and unimportant part of my post, and not necessarily a reason to go off topic.

[Michaelh139]

Do you really think we are gonna stop mentioning that childish behaviour just because Michael the merc lover tells us to?

nice, personal attacks...   At least you prove my point.  

But anyway, I trust the devs and the new merc leading system they are going to implement, and that is why it was just a very small and unimportant part of my post, and not necessarily a reason to go off topic.

Then you shouldn't have added it.  

[LagMaster]

make ghost farm protected

[Lexx]

As far as I can see, people say "guarded town == no pvp in there" ... which I find wrong. Just because there are guards, it doesn't mean there can't be any pvp. I'll guess people don't do any real pvp in there, because of two reasons:

1. Reinforcements in some towns are too heavy and
2. Chance to lose items is a lot higher, because you have to pwn NPC guards before you can pwn bluesuits.

At 1: Towns like Klamath or Modoc would have far less reinforcements than the NCR or Adytum, so it wouldn't be a that big deal. If you can take out the guards in the map, you might as well be able to take out the reinforcement troops.

At 2: Well, yeah.

In any case, just because a town has guards, it doesn't mean you aren't allowed to fight in there. If you can take it up with the NPCs, fine... Hell, nobody (Devs + Game Masters) would care, if now a big playergroup enters the NCR and starts taking out the guards and "takes over" the town in some kind of way. As long as no cheats / guard ai abuse (like blocking in doors) is done, nothing speaks against it. If we would want to have no players fight in these locations, we would simply set them to "no pvp" and you couldn't activate combat anymore.

[avv]

I would love to see but this never happen in longer period, because kilgorequote

No it wont. If the controllers always kill their visitors, they stop having visitors. Let's say tc box doesn't give anything at all if nobody comes to buy the services from npcs. There are people who are willing to uphold peaceful societies and don't have urges to shoot players on sight even if it was more profitable. The mechanics have to support that. There has to be a place ingame where town rules can be written and seen clearly, who are wanted and who are known citizens.

What comes to abusing the services with alts, it would be impossible because it's all about caps. The gang would only have a small discount when using the services of their own town.
Let's say you can hire a repairman npc for 10k caps and 20tools for 1 week. Repair costs 100caps from which 20 goes in the tc box. So visitors have to pay 100 caps but members only 80.

[vedaras]

well if for example gang decides to pvp in modoc, they need to kill guards first, once people see that there are dead guards in town - they wont enter simply. So i think yes, it does mean that guarded town means no pvp.

[Kilgore]

No it wont. If the controllers always kill their visitors, they stop having visitors. Let's say tc box doesn't give anything at all if nobody comes to buy the services from npcs. There are people who are willing to uphold peaceful societies and don't have urges to shoot players on sight even if it was more profitable. The mechanics have to support that. There has to be a place ingame where town rules can be written and seen clearly, who are wanted and who are known citizens.  

It was like that and it didn't work. And towns won't stop having visitors as long as there are specific NPCs for specific things like profession trainers, quests or other services.

If you can take it up with the NPCs, fine... Hell, nobody (Devs + Game Masters) would care, if now a big playergroup enters the NCR and starts taking out the guards and "takes over" the town in some kind of way. As long as no cheats / guard ai abuse (like blocking in doors) is done, nothing speaks against it.

It's not possible in your game, sir.

[Crazy]

In any case, just because a town has guards, it doesn't mean you aren't allowed to fight in there. If you can take it up with the NPCs, fine... Hell, nobody (Devs + Game Masters) would care, if now a big playergroup enters the NCR and starts taking out the guards and "takes over" the town in some kind of way. As long as no cheats / guard ai abuse (like blocking in doors) is done, nothing speaks against it. If we would want to have no players fight in these locations, we would simply set them to "no pvp" and you couldn't activate combat anymore.

Mmmh, you should explain that to the GM who spawned invincible 9999hp NPCs when the North Alliance, Red Dot, DMC, and Dark Alliance attacked NCR together without any abuse. It was really lame.

[Lexx]

It's not possible in your game, sir.

Only because of the named issues, sir. Do we write sir now at the end of the sentences, sir?

Mmmh, you should explain that to the GM who spawned invincible 9999hp NPCs when the North Alliance, Red Dot, DMC, and Dark Alliance attacked NCR together without any abuse. It was really lame.

Send an e-mail to the overseer then, with screenshots, logs, etc. and he will look into the issue.

[vedaras]

Only because of the named issues, sir. Do we write sir now at the end of the sentences, sir?

Send an e-mail to the overseer then, with screenshots, logs, etc. and he will look into the issue.

there was very big rage topics in forum about that. But it was like a year ago from now, so there was no overseer at that time even

[Wichura]

I know you are saying the devs should encourage RP ("somehow"), while Redding WWP project came from players. But anyway my point is, WWP project has met a lot of obstacles because the PVP PWNZORS WHO ARE THE ONLY ONES LEFT IN THIS GAME came and started pew pewing (and proxy-leading mercs, etc). So the activity "RP" is also harmed.

I forgot to answer to another thing you said in your first reply here. So you think I'll ragequit in a few months because of the PvP pwnzors? Cool story bro. Don't forget to admit you were wrong when you still see me here trying to ruin your game with my "Mad Max wannabe babycry" in the future

I wonder why you still play this game if PVP PEW PEWING IS THE ONLY FUCKING THING TO DO IN 2238. Btw, I enjoy PvP as well

You remind me myself from like year ago. Same lines about PvP-apes and shit, same rage, pure fury and holy enthusiasm to make game world a better place to live in.

Since I've already walked this path, I can predict you're gonna be disappointed sooner or later too, as I was. Player-organised events, activities other than pwn n00bz, fancy-shmancy roleplay sessions, giving a simple but cool quest in Hub for newcomers in our humble gang, to make them feel like in real Fallout game, yeah yeah. And?
It all started to consume too much time to prepare some short fun - craft valuable prizes (gathering and crawling), set a nice looking place with glowing bottles (crawling again), crawl around the world to get all invited visitors or wait till they crawl to you. There were days when I was spending like few hours of real time to prepare 15 minutes "event". Pity there is no more polish subforum, I could prove my words with certain threads - pictures would be enough I guess. Support of GM? Sure, I'd like to thank Samira again for helping us with Fight Club many times - respawning killed by accident fighters was very useful and saved us from waiting them to crawl back from respawn point. And that's it, GM is more like MP (Military Police) here. Something went terribly wrong.

Anyway I surrendered and don't give a crap anymore. Pwnz0ring n00bz is much easier and doesn't require so many preparations or time. Just grab a gun and kill pixels. Go go crazy rocketjumpers! :>

Please, I want 2238 to be 2238, not isometric Fallout New Vegas (aka "lulz casino everywhere!" as some guy said on NMA).

We have trains here (that's what I've heard, never used any) - "lulz trainz everywhere, it's Transport Tycoon!!11". Cars - "zOMFG carmageddon!111". Big guns - "onoz, quake pwnz0rs!!1". Dude, stop. Casinos were in F1 (Gizmo's one), F2 (New Reno's), there is many gambling machines all around. What's wrong with them? Right, there is no use for Gambling skill so far, but I'm patient and wait for some nice implementation. I've never had Gambling alt yet.

Do you really think we are gonna stop mentioning that childish behaviour just because Michael the merc lover tells us to? But anyway, I trust the devs and the new merc leading system they are going to implement, and that is why it was just a very small and unimportant part of my post, and not necessarily a reason to go off topic.

New merc system would cause more 9/10 CH alts added to bases to keep security mercs "on" them. Dunno about PvP fights, more proxies maybe? :>