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[ezeqkkk]

Well, im a noob trying to make a good SG sniper.
the idea is shoot 2 times in a turn, thats 12 AP i think, im going to shoot in the eyes, but can i cripple good also?
I dont want to use drugs but if theres no other option... i heard that a good character MUST use drugs, so i can use to do it

I do this 2 things, but i dont reach 2 shots, u can tell me what its OK and what is wrong of this, i dont think in jet, cigs and that stuff while doing this:



Here is a drug-free one:


A couple of questions: how much FA and DOC is good enough? and SG? wich drugs i have to use and why?
Considering This (by RavenousRat):
"More Critical perk just gives you 5% critical chance, it's must have perk for bursters and arm-cripplers, it almost has no effect for double shooting sniper and very small effect on snipers. It equals to 1 LK for standart sniper, so if you're not going to 2nd toughness or x1 BRD on 6th level, then pick More Critical, and this is enough if you're not crippler/burster.
Logically you can see that even with 10 LK and x3 More Critical you'll have only 85% critical chance in the eyes.
While with 8 LK and x1 More Critical, but 12 AP you'll have 2 shots and 89.89% that atleast one of 2 will be critical. I'm not sure how much % gives that x1 MC, don't want to calculate again, but practice shows me that I wasted perk slot on it, and it would be better if I took 2nd toughness on 6th level, screw this more critical.
Focusing build on constant things based on rolls/real life luck is better than maximizing rolls. Making lots HP and x2 shots per once is better than stupidly increasing chance of critical."
I should take 1 only crits perk?

Im planning:
S 2
P 8
E 6
C 1
I 6
A 8
L 10
Traits: Small frame and Good natured
Tag SG, FA and DOC
Awarness (because i like it), 1 lifegiver?
bonus rate of fire (for 2 eye crit shots), Weapon handling and Better criticals as obligatory perks.
Maybe 1 more crits
and... Toughness?

whats up with bonus ranged damage, Sharpshooter? should I consider them? and lifegiverx2, Toughnessx2 or 1 each?

How about this (RavenousRat):
"if you aren't going for 6 ST (Stonewall perk), then make it in your case 2 ST, if you're going to use jet, then 1 ST."
i dont understand it very well but Im supossed to use Jet, I should low Str to 1? where i put that special point?

Uff, a lot of newbie questions but, i appreciate your help. Excuse me for my deformed English.
Credits to RavenousRat for the quotes, I will like your advice.

[Astarot]

First of all, for the eyes it's not 6ap ( with sniper rifle and BROF ) in the eyes but 7ap, so for two shoot it's 14ap. ^^

It's possible to have 14ap but not interesting  because you have to take 2 action boy and jet... So less more critical for you, and for a sniper this perk is essential.

[ezeqkkk]

oh, a little detail there. I guess the topic I get based for my build (http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=11899.0) was about sniper using AR and not sniper rifle...
let me show this discuss:
"12 AP sniper would be only possible for weaker weapons, no Sniper Rifle there :< That's somehow sad."
"Well you can ask your victim to wait till you have APs for 2nd shot from sniper rifle. Or use EW, or .223 pistol or AR, yes, there's not so great range, but if you're going to shoot on 50 hex range, may be you can act like x1 sniper with a rifle ;p But I don't see anything bad in AR or .223 pistol, you can even make one-hander build for .223 pistol and may be even gauss pistol."
All the writing from my thread could apply well to the AR or .223 pistol instead of Sniper Rifle? Is a good build using AR instead of Sniper rifle?
and, still can use the sniper rifle shooting 1 time if I am far hexes enough? i guess thats what means "if you're going to shoot on 50 hex range, may be you can act like x1 sniper with a rifle ;p"

[0m3n]

"12 AP sniper would be only possible for weaker weapons, no Sniper Rifle there :< That's somehow sad."

You can have 12AP and still effectively use Sniper Rifle.

ST1                       241%SG
PE8                       90% Doc
END6                     12AP
CH1                       169HP
INT6
AG9
LK10

Small frame
Good natured

3Awarness/Toughness
6More Criticals
9Better Criticals
12 Life Giver
15 Weapon Handling
18Brof
21Sharpshooter

Using
 Jet, Nuka Cola And ciggaretes


First if you want to have 2 shoots you MUST use jet because it gives you a huge bost of 2 AP ,also nuka cola and ciggaretes allow you to save 2 SPECIAL points so another 1 AP.

11PE in total will give you advantage in sniper battles, you can use cigarettes to have 11.
Put skillpoints in DOC , FA may be replaced by Stims and Super stims.

[ezeqkkk]

You can have 12AP and still effectively use Sniper Rifle.

ST1                       241%SG
PE8                       90% Doc
END6                     12AP
CH1                       169HP
INT6
AG9
LK10

Small frame
Good natured

3Awarness/Toughness
6More Criticals
9Better Criticals
12 Life Giver
15 Weapon Handling
18Brof
21Sharpshooter

Using
 Jet, Nuka Cola And ciggaretes


First if you want to have 2 shoots you MUST use jet because it gives you a huge bost of 2 AP ,also nuka cola and ciggaretes allow you to save 2 SPECIAL points so another 1 AP.

11PE in total will give you advantage in sniper battles, you can use cigarettes to have 11.
Put skillpoints in DOC , FA may be replaced by Stims and Super stims.

Thats waht im talking about, but...
How can i use sniper rifle whit only 1 Str? and Jet low it to -1... I need 2 + 3 from WP.
Buffout could be usefull (is +2 Str, like FCPlanner said or +3 like wiki say?).
But, buffout lows AG -1, even whit nuka cola i get AG 9, I need 10 for 10 AP + 2 from jet...

[0m3n]

1.This build don't use buffout .
2. You can use sniper rifle with 4 STR (1+weapon Handling) you just need more SG Skill Thats why this one have 241%

[ezeqkkk]

1.This build don't use buffout .
2. You can use sniper rifle with 4 STR (1+weapon Handling) you just need more SG Skill Thats why this one have 241%

I see, i get a penalty for use sniper rifle whit 1 str + 3 from WP, but u say that I can compensate the penalty enough having 241% in SG... the 9 PErception +2 from sharpshooter helps to compensate the penalty too?

I´ve FCPed your build


I´ve ended up whit 96% DOC, its a substanciall diference whit having 100% or more in DOC? and why u told me 241%, is for a reason in particullar or just a number?

I´ve managed to make some builds by my own whit 2 crit shots in the eyes whit AR, or 2 crit shot in limbs whit sniper rifle (is this what your build going for, isnt it?)




The first one is quiet weak, have 5 EN, ergo, awarness instead of toughness and only 147 HP (whit lifegiver), but has 2 STr (no penalty) and 8 PE + 2 from sharpshooter.
The second one has 6 EN, means toughness + lifegiver and 169 HP; also 9 PE but without sharpshotter. This one stays in 9 PE, while the other has 10 and yours has 11 PE.
Both use nuka cola, jet, cigs AND buffout... but has 231% SG without penalty for sniper rifle crippling and +100% in DOC & FA.

I assumed your build is better because of my noobity (is my second char) but i want to know why. I mean the differences are Sharpshooter vs  Action Boy (11 vs 9 PE) and yours dont need Buffout
in the other hand my attempt has more EN whit buffout (8 vs 6), 231% SG vs 241% SG with 1 Str penalty for sniper rifle, +100% DOC & FA vs -100% in DoC only.
Also there is +2 Armor class in yours; but 24 vs 18 in carry weight... and 1 HP more in my char
even with 10 LK, It will be enough 1 and only more critical perk? considering this boy will go for cripple with the sniper rifle and damage in the eyes or head whit weaker guns, i guess.

"You can have 12AP and still effectively use Sniper Rifle."
BTW, we are talking of 2 shots with sniper rifle in arms, legs, torso AND/OR 2 shots in the eyes, head, groin whit AR or something like that, isnt it?
Shot in limbs is that you mean with "still effectively use Sniper Rifle"?

Oh, thx for the help 0m3n, i´m learning a lot.

[0m3n]

I see, i get a penalty for use sniper rifle whit 1 str + 3 from WP, but u say that I can compensate the penalty enough having 241% in SG... the 9 PErception +2 from sharpshooter helps to compensate the penalty too?

241% is enough to compensate the penalty.
Sniper must have 11/12 PE so you must have a sharpshooter.

I´ve ended up whit 96% DOC, its a substanciall diference whit having 100% or more in DOC? and why u told me 241%, is for a reason in particullar or just a number?

With 90%Doc you have 95% to heal a cripple.More % Doctor skill decreases only Cooldown for that skill.
You don't really need First Aid. You can always use Super Stims.
Stimpacks always heal 100Hp , with 100%FA you can heal somtimes 20HP sometimes 100HP it's random.

BTW, we are talking of 2 shots with sniper rifle in arms, legs, torso AND/OR 2 shots in the eyes, head, groin whit AR or something like that, isnt it?
Shot in limbs is that you mean with "still effectively use Sniper Rifle"?

This build was made to shoot 2 times in a row from sniper rifle in head/eyes (real time combat).If you want to cripple someone you must have finesse and 3x more criticals.

The first one is quiet weak, have 5 EN, ergo, awarness instead of toughness and only 147 HP (whit lifegiver), but has 2 STr (no penalty) and 8 PE + 2 from sharpshooter.

Endurance Always even numbers.
Sniper must have minimum 11 PE.

[Kelin]

However, keep in mind when you take cigarettes you will have PE 9 (+ some sharpshooter bonus) and with 241% sg skill you won't be able to have 95% hit chance at the eyes from 50 hexes.

[ezeqkkk]

This build was made to shoot 2 times in a row from sniper rifle in head/eyes (real time combat).If you want to cripple someone you must have finesse and 3x more criticals.

Oh, your build was to play in RT, i didnt know that.
so, 2 shots in the eyes in real time is 6 AP each (with BROF)? But I like to play in TB, so i need 14 AP to do 2 eye shots... not good. And shooting to limbs whit this character whit sniper rifle (12 AP) wont work?

[Kelin]

If you are planning to play in TB, I would suggest you to lower some stats and maybe not to take lifegiver perk. I think Omen wanted to say, that in RT those 2 action points are regenerated pretty quickly, so you can shoot the second shot almost immediately (of course, no matter RT or TB, sniper rifle needs 7 action points with brof). If you really need 14 AP, last three perks must be bonus rate of fire, action boy and action boy. If you are not going to play PvP, sharpshooter perk is useless. Instead, set PE to 9 and take cigarettes for full range. You can raise your critical chance by taking finesse trait. I use it on my sniper builds and it's fine. In this case you can lower your LK if you want and put remaining points to EN for example. But don't go bellow 75% crit. chance to the eyes (15% general crit. chance).

[ezeqkkk]

Well, I have in mind part of you two said and came up with this:


Has nuka cola, Jet and Cigarrette. The only thing i dont like is 9 LK, but its ok.
The "sniper" issues are: Sharpshooter (10 PE +2), 1 More Criticals and Better Criticals, but LK 9.
Im goig to shoot 2 eye shot with AR, and maybe 1 shot of sniper rifle (if that have any sense), so i dont go after 14 AP.

But also i do this:


Uses the same 3 drugs.
I insist with other builds because im doing them based on RavenousRat concepts (of this thread http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=11899.0)
Thats why I take only one Most Crit or none in the last build:

"More Critical perk just gives you 5% critical chance, it's must have perk for bursters and arm-cripplers, it almost has no effect for double shooting sniper and very small effect on snipers. It equals to 1 LK for standart sniper, so if you're not going to 2nd toughness or x1 BRD on 6th level, then pick More Critical, and this is enough if you're not crippler/burster.
Logically you can see that even with 10 LK and x3 More Critical you'll have only 85% critical chance in the eyes.
While with 8 LK and x1 More Critical, but 12 AP you'll have 2 shots and 89.89% that atleast one of 2 will be critical. I'm not sure how much % gives that x1 MC, don't want to calculate again, but practice shows me that I wasted perk slot on it, and it would be better if I took 2nd toughness on 6th level, screw this more critical.
Focusing build on constant things based on rolls/real life luck is better than maximizing rolls. Making lots HP and x2 shots per once is better than stupidly increasing chance of critical."

"More Critical - for bursters simulates 5 LK, with base 6 LK it roughly increasing chance to do x1.5/x2/x3 damage in two times, other 2 MCs will increase it in two times again, so x3 MC will make critical bursts x4 times more frequent, while for sniper it equals to 1 LK, it means with this crappy more critical perk your chance to score critical will be increased in 1.07 times (for 10 LK sniper), hell yeah! In 1.07 times! Damn it! You fucking wasting your perk slot just to score criticals in 1.07 times more!"

"if you can live without awareness (if you're not paranoic) this is the only perk you can take on 3rd level and may be on 6th too, because you won't see this 5% critical chance on practice by shooting heads and eyes, while toughness is passive perk which is always active and works good vs bursts."

BUT, I can put 1 of these perk.


About Sharpshooter:

"PE 10
(Increases your % to hit, and increases your max range of sight)
(Sharpshooter only increases 2pe to RANGE OF SIGHT, and 8% to chance to hi, but remember some weapons multiply PE by 16 others by 8, so either take 9 PE and sharpshooter, or take 10PE)"  this is from Jhazard

I´ve heard that Sharpshooter with high PE is to have the advantage vs others snipers, its ok, i can live without that.  I mean, is really really esencial take Sharpshooter having 10 PE (with the cig)



Well, I can change a little the perks of my last build:  The original have 2 toughness and 2 lifegiver, but can have 1 toughness 1, 1 More crits and 2 LFG    or   1 toughness, 1 LFG and 2 more crits    or   maybe Bonus Ranged Damage instead of 2nd TOughness/More crits  but i dont know much of BRD...

I care more about Toughness & Lifegiver than sharpshooter or more crits becuase i run into much more bursters PKs than snipers (in my few experience)  and I belive in the comments of the two friends i quote, asumming that I dont loss much critics and damage...

So, what do u think folfs?

[0m3n]

You learn very quickly ezeqkkk.

PE10 is enough for sniper for PVE , if you want to play PVP i would preffer to have sharpshooter instead of 2nd lifegiver because you can see other snipers faster than he can see you .If you have 11PE and you are fighting other sniper with 10PE you will kill him and he won't even know where he was shot from.

You will ask how it's possible?

Imagine such a situation, you meet a second sniper in open space, you know that he got only 10PE so you shot him fall back 1-2 Hexes you can still see him , but he don't even know where he was shoot from. If he isn't too smart you can repeat such action until you kill him.

[Kelin]

an example of a good PvE sniper:
1 9 6 1 6 9 9
small frame with or without finesse
awareness, more critical, better critical, weapon handling, brof, action boy, action boy
128 hp (I don't understand why you need huge hp when shooting at distance of 50 hexes, this value is fine imo)
jet, cigs, nuka and you have 14 AP so you can shoot twice in one turn, sweet isn't it.

PS: Don't be afraid of finesse perk. It sucks when you burst, shoot uncalled shots but with aimed shots it's really good. Sniper rifle has a good damage and you will be still able to insta kill your opponent or do damage about 100 or more hit poins.

[Onihane]

Hey guys, I myself am very interested in making a sniper build as well. After reading what everyone has said, I really like both the builds posted by Om3n and Kelin, and I had some questions about this variation. Below is the build, with questions about some things that if possible id like some input from the community on.


My goal for this build is to be a good merger of 2x eyes shot for pvp and pve in both turn based and real time.
Char is chem reliant - Jet, Cigs, Nuka-cola.

SPECIAL
1 ST
10 PE - Will cigs push this to 11?
6 EN
1 CH
6 IN
9 AG
8 LK

Traits - Small Frame - A given.
 Finesse - To compensate for 2% crit from not having 10 luck (assuming that 8 luck is enough for good rolls still), and 5% Crit from not having more criticals at 6.                       

241% Small guns - is this a good % or should I take more as I do not care for doctor or fa?

Level 3 - Toughness
Level 6 - Toughness
Level 9 - Better Critical
Level 12 - Weapon Handleing
Level 15 - Bonus Rate of Fire
Level 18 - Action Boy
Level 21 - Action Boy

Use jet, nuka cola, and cigs.

14 ap, 2x aimed shots in turn based and in real time without a 2 ap wait.

78% Crit Chance out of 95% - Need to make sure this is the true crit chace of the build, if you come up with something different please tell me.

11 PE assuming that 10 + cigs can push it to 11.

The downside, it only has about 128 hp if my calculations are right, and uses finesse. Will Finesse ruin this builds PvP ability?

Also, is 8 luck enough to have good rolls on eye shots? And

Any input would be greatly appreciated! Thanks.