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[Lordus]

Hello,
on TLA server, there is possibility to craft and set up sandbags with sand on ground. It works like barrier. You can drop one sandbags or stack others up to five sandbags on one hex.
1-3 sandbags means that you are not possible to walk over it (but you can see over it and you can shoot over it), 4-5 sandbags on one hex cause that you cant see (or shoot) over that hex (and walk too).

 This gives you great opportunity how to defend some position. On other way, this mechanism is balanced that you can simply take that sandbags from that hex, until there will not exist any one. Also weight of each sandbags is quite big (cca 50 kgs), so there is not simple way how to spam location.

 So my question is, is there a possibility (technicaly) to implement this mechanism into Fonline 2238 after next wipe (in TLA it works well)?

 Here is simple screen: There is only one level of sandbags.

 Possible implementing problems:
 
 1) On TLA, there is more simple FOV, so you can see everything in your FOV even it is behind the walls, so the FOV system is problematic
 2) I dont know if their maps are not quite dynamic, but i dont thinks so..

[Surf]

While the idea is nice and all, the screenshot proves why no one dares to implement this on this server.

[JmanDong]

That idea screams trolling and griefing.

[Lordus]

While the idea is nice and all, the screenshot proves why no one dares to implement this on this server.

 Welll, i heard that mines and plastic explosives will be implemented again and they have even bigger PK potential than sand bags. So i think with some kind of regulation, it could work well. On 2238, you have town previews, so you can enter by different direction and i readed russian forum and they made countermesure: dynamite destorys that sandbags.

 Also the weight of that bags is big so it is not as easy to plant silently whole wall (radio channel O, anti pks gangs,...). Also it is kind of resource investition, sandbags dont grow on trees or they are not dropped in encouters, so you can plant 1t of sandbags whole hour and after few minutes, it could be destroyed by enemies, if you dont protect it.

 The big benefit i see is that you can make PvP or TC more variable than now, even on same locations.

 But my original point was if it is possible to implement in technical way, not game balancing one.

[runboy93]

Maybe there could be limits for places of sandbacks?
Like not near of spawn place (about 10hex far or more)
And limits for how much you can put them into ground (maybe about 20 enough.. totally)

[Surf]

Welll, i heard that mines and plastic explosives will be implemented again and they have even bigger PK potential than sand bags. So i think with some kind of regulation, it could work well. On 2238, you have town previews, so you can enter by different direction and i readed russian forum and they made countermesure: dynamite destorys that sandbags.

 Also the weight of that bags is big so it is not as easy to plant silently whole wall (radio channel O, anti pks gangs,...). Also it is kind of resource investition, sandbags dont grow on trees or they are not dropped in encouters, so you can plant 1t of sandbags whole hour and after few minutes, it could be destroyed by enemies, if you dont protect it.

 The big benefit i see is that you can make PvP or TC more variable than now, even on same locations.

 But my original point was if it is possible to implement in technical way, not game balancing one.

I see where you're coming from, but I also meant that it just looks fucking ugly on maps.

[Lordus]

I see where you're coming from, but I also meant that it just looks fucking ugly on maps.

 I dont want to start flame, not with players, not with GM. We can talk about estetics, yes, it is not look orderly, but it is another game mechanism that could enrich the game. On TLA it works fine.

 1) In visible bases concept, it is another way how to defend your base (with en. power field, mines, C4s).
 2) At King of the hill scenario (like Cathedral on TLA: call BH or Encl, wait for 20 minutes, than car with stuff arives) you can better defend your position in way how enemy do not expect. It is more about few sandbags placed in right position than about long unbreakable walls.
 3) I know wastelanders. You can place picture of Santa Maria created by couins on ground and after half of hour, the picture is gone. They are like cleaners. And of course, i think that this could be totaly disabled in guarded places.

 P.S.: This picture is not my own, i found it on web, i am not sand bag pk.

[Michaelh139]

I see where you're coming from, but I also meant that it just looks fucking ugly on maps.

That is a pitiful excuse.  Sorry.

I liek it, but what would newbies do?  If all grids were sandbagged, they could not even be able to run in and out to avoid being killed in first place which is what most must do now.

Also, as long as it is not able to place in gaurded maps, and with adjustments, sure.

And of course, i think that this could be totaly disabled in guarded places.

just noticed that .

[Surf]

That is a pitiful excuse.  Sorry.

This is not an excuse, it is my personal opinion about this issue, since I already cleared that the idea itself is nice.

[raynor009]

Yes is nice.But that reuquires more work to implement it.But i would really like to see in 2238 some stuff from TLA .

[Michaelh139]

This is not an excuse, it is my personal opinion about this issue, since I already cleared that the idea itself is nice.

Alright, its just when you said "no one would dare to put on server" i kinda took that as a hell no with sarcasm.

[Lordus]

I liek it, but what would newbies do?  If all grids were sandbagged, they could not even be able to run in and out to avoid being killed in first place which is what most must do now.

 I agree that every ingame mechaniscs should not be unbalancing. In comparsion to innocent sandbags, i can tell that we have supermutant artilery that is not on TLA, so they want to ambush someone, they have to create wall of sandbags, plant there a lot of mines and then wait, on 2238 you can buy 4 supermutants with rocket almost for free and kill several best equiped players in few seconds.. But i dont want to continue in this way.

 Dont forget, that most of pvp chars would not be able to carry even 1 sand bag, because of high weight. You need caravan or brahmin, you need time to load and unload.. Not simple.

  But possibilities are that you can cut off some streets, or it could help roleplaying projects like TTLA do now (Redding), because you can set up secure coridors and enemy should not swarm you, you can create gunports at locations that nobody expects (in Klamath plains i.e.),.. many many possibilities.

[kraskish]

Full support... even if there was an expedition to encircle whole part of town GM would get to know sooner or later... and yeah it looks cool and war-like. Another thing to make your base more beautiful.

[Michaelh139]

Is it possible when standing next to it and determined by FoV direction that when standing by sandbage at 1hex it could give you temporary AC boost?
Snipers wouldn't have a problem naturally but Big gunners would have trouble with their simple spray and pray method because sandbags would absorb the bullets realisticly.

Btw i would like to point out that this implementation could also be a good tactic for both sides, people using sandbags at a certain distance can be flanked and trapped, and they could be sniped away at a safe distance and they wouldnt be able to immediately attack without enough snipers of their own.
While the defending side would have advantages already obvious.

[Surf]

and yeah it looks cool and war-like.

Wow, talking about having arguments here.